RTL Group S.A. (ETR:RRTL)
Germany flag Germany · Delayed Price · Currency is EUR
37.45
-0.15 (-0.40%)
Apr 27, 2026, 5:35 PM CET
← View all transcripts

Earnings Call: H1 2022

Aug 5, 2022

Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Welcome, and thank you for joining the RTL Group Analyst Call. Throughout today's recorded presentation, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. The presentation will be followed by a question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, you may press star followed by one on your touchtone telephone. Please press the star key followed by zero for operator assistance. It is my pleasure, and I would now like to turn the conference over to Oliver Fahlbusch. Please go ahead, sir.

Oliver Fahlbusch
EVP of Communications and Investor Relations, RTL Group

Yeah, good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining this Analyst Call for RTL Group's Results for the First Half of 2022. The speakers for today's presentation are Thomas Rabe, RTL Group CEO, Elmar Heggen, our COO and Deputy CEO, and Björn Bauer, our CFO. The presentation for this call is available on our corporate website, rtl.com, following the link included in our press release under Downloads. The agenda on slide two shows the areas our management team will cover today. After the presentation, Thomas, Elmar, and Björn are available to answer your questions. With this, I'll now hand over to Thomas.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Yeah, many thanks, Oliver, and good morning from me as well. RTL Group had a solid first half of 2022 in terms of operating and financial performance, reporting record first half revenue of EUR 3.3 billion. Despite higher streaming startup losses, RTL Group generated a higher adjusted EBITA compared with the first half of 2021, demonstrating once again our ability to generate strong financial results in challenging macroeconomic conditions. Our families of channels in Germany and the Netherlands achieved higher audience shares in their main commercial target groups and thus increased their leads over the main commercial competitors. M6 in France scored its best prime time audience share in the commercial target group in 10 years.

We've also made significant progress in executing our strategy. We continue to actively manage our portfolio and completed the sales of RTL Belgium, RTL Croatia, and VideoAmp with significant capital gains. Our streaming services, RTL+ and Videoland, continue to grow dynamically, with more than 4.5 million paying subscribers at the end of June. One year ago, we announced that we would accelerate the expansion of Fremantle, targeting full-year revenue of EUR 3 billion by 2025. Fremantle is making very good progress to deliver on this target, with five acquisitions and step-ups closed in the first six months of the year.

On the proposed combinations of Groupe TF1 and Groupe M6 in France and Talpa Network and RTL in the Netherlands, we expect the competition authorities in both countries to decide in autumn. We remain convinced that market consolidation is necessary to compete with the global platforms. I'll now hand over to Björn, who will take you through the group's financial results in more detail.

Björn Bauer
CFO, RTL Group

Thank you, Thomas. Good morning, everyone. In my presentation on the financial results, I will focus on two points. First, our solid financial results despite softer TV advertising market since March, and second, our active portfolio management and its impact on the income and cash flow statement for the first half of 2022. Let's start with a closer look at our key financials on slide six. Thanks to our investment into streaming and content and the strong performance at RTL Nederland, our first half revenue reached a new record level of EUR 3.3 billion. Positive foreign exchange rate effects amounting to EUR 41 million also contributed to our revenue growth in the first half.

On an organic basis, i.e., before scope and FX effects, group revenue was stable as organic revenue growth at RTL Nederland and Groupe M6 was offset by negative effects from the timing of production deliveries at Fremantle. Despite higher streaming startup losses and more challenging macroeconomic conditions, adjusted EBITA was up 3.7% to EUR 501 million, mainly thanks to significantly higher profit contributions from RTL Nederland. Group profit was EUR 304 million after reaching the extraordinary record level of EUR 929 million for the first six months of 2021, which was positively impacted by the capital gain from the sale of SpotX.

Moving on to slide seven. Here you see the developments of RTL Group's total and TV advertising revenue on a quarterly basis. RTL Group started dynamically into 2022, with group revenue and TV advertising revenue both up by 11% compared to the first quarter of 2021. Since March, the European TV advertising market has softened, resulting in a 3% decrease of RTL Group's TV advertising revenue in the second quarter. This decrease was more than offset by scope effects at the level of RTL Deutschland and Fremantle, as well as positive FX effects. As a result, RTL Group's total revenue was up 6% in the second quarter of the year.

Looking now at our underlying profitability in the first half. With higher streaming startup losses totaling EUR 74 million, our adjusted EBITA before streaming startup losses was up 7.1% to EUR 575 million, also exceeding the pre-COVID level of the first half of 2019. Moving on to slide eight, and the items below EBITA, down to group profit. As you know, in April 2021, RTL Group sold its interest in SpotX to the U.S. tech company Magnite. In the first half of last year, the capital gained from the disposal of SpotX alone amounted to EUR 745 million. As already mentioned, this was the key driver for last year's record group profit.

With Magnite's share price decreasing in the first half of 2022, the effect from the remeasurement of the 12.37 million Magnite shares held to RTL Group was -EUR 85 million in our accounts for the first half of 2022. This effect is reflected in the line share value measurement of investments. In total, RTL Group recorded capital gains of EUR 111 million in the first half of 2022 relating to the disposals of RTL Belgium and RTL Croatia. The group's tax charge came in at EUR 134 million. The significantly higher tax charge in the first half of last year was due to the capital gains from the disposal of SpotX, which was taxed at rates below our normalized tax rate.

Accordingly, the reported tax rate in the first half of 2022 was 31%, compared to 23% for the first half of 2021. Looking now at the next slide, the cash flow statement. Our operating free cash flow was EUR 166 million, while the operating cash conversion rate was 35% in the first half of 2022. The lower operating cash conversion rate was due to unfavorable changes in the net working capital, mainly at RTL Deutschland and Fremantle. Thomas already said, we continue to actively manage our portfolio, and this is reflected in various lines of the cash flow statement.

The line acquisition disposal of subsidiaries mainly reflects the cash received as part of the disposals of RTL Belgium and RTL Croatia, and the cash paid out for the Fremantle acquisitions, Lux Vide and Element Pictures. The cash received from the sale of VideoAmp is reflected in the line acquisition disposal of other investments financial assets. The cash effect from the acquisition of Gruner + Jahr, net of cash acquired, is shown in the line acquisitions of companies under common control. Please keep in mind that EUR 210 million for the acquisition of Gruner + Jahr assets were already prepaid at the end of 2021.

Cash outflow for the step-up to 100% in Eureka is reflected in the line transactions with non-controlling interests. With the dividend payment for the financial year 2021 amounting to EUR 774 million, we reduced our current deposits with Bertelsmann by EUR 568 million in the reporting period. This effect is shown in the line transaction with shareholders and its subsidiaries. To summarize, with the low operating free cash flow and most importantly, the dividend payment, the cash used in the first half of 2022 was EUR 67 million. At the end of June, RTL Group was still in a net cash position of EUR 35 million, and that is despite the dividend payment. For the business review, I will now hand over to Elmar.

Elmar Heggen
COO and Deputy CEO, RTL Group

Thank you, Björn, and good morning from my side as well. In the first half of 2022, our largest unit, RTL Deutschland, continued the dynamic growth of its streaming service, RTL+. The number of prime paying subscribers was up 69% year-on-year to more than 3.4 million at the end of June. The strategic partnership with Deutsche Telekom's MagentaTV and the diverse range of programming on RTL+ contributed significantly to the growth. In terms of content, after last year's deal with Constantin Film, RTL Deutschland signed agreements with Warner Bros. Entertainment and Paramount to acquire attractive program packages for both RTL+ and our linear free TV channels.

In May, RTL Deutschland announced an extensive partnership with UEFA to broadcast half of all football matches of the German national team in the UEFA Nations League until 2028, and the European qualifiers for both the FIFA World Cup 2026 and the UEFA Euro in 2028. The first half of the year also saw the launch of various extensions of publishing brands, such as Stern, GALA, and GEOLINO to the TV screen. Good examples for the ongoing integration of Gruner + Jahr into RTL Deutschland. Our strategy has always been clear. Investments in local exclusive content, including the rights for live sports events, to strengthen both our linear TV channels and our streaming services.

This strategy pays off, as demonstrated by the success with the live broadcast of the UEFA Europa League matches in 2022. Looking now at the financials of RTL Deutschland in the first half of 2022. Total revenue was up 21.5% to EUR 1.240 billion, driven by the acquisition of Gruner + Jahr and Super RTL. Adjusted EBITDA was down 5% to EUR 191 million, mainly due to higher program costs for the linear TV channels, as well as higher streaming startup costs. This was partly offset by the reversal of provisions of EUR 35 million relating to the legal proceedings with RTL II.

In terms of audiences, RTL Deutschland reported a combined audience share of 27.3% in the target group of viewers aged 14– 59, which was up 4.8 percentage points. Our German family of channels increased its lead over its main commercial competitor, ProSiebenSat.1, from four to 4.9 percentage points. The main channel, RTL Television, remains the market leader in the target group 14– 59, while VOX overtook Sat.1 in the first six months in the 14– 49 age group. Moving now to M6 on the next slide. Total revenue of Groupe M6 was up 2.9% to EUR 664 million, mainly driven by non-advertising revenue, which benefited from the recovery of the film business and scope effects, coming from the acquisition of Stéphane Plaza Immobilier.

Adjusted EBITA was almost stated at EUR 149 million, resulting in a profit margin of 22%. The audience share of our French family of free-to-air channels in the commercial target group was 22.4%, down 0.7 points. While the all-day audience share of the main channel, M6, was down in the commercial target group, the channel scored its best audience performance in the past 10 years in the crucial prime-time slot. M6 acquired the rights to become the official free TV broadcaster for the finals of the UEFA Champions League in the years 2025– 2027, another example of our strategy to invest in premium content. Let's now turn to page 13, RTL Nederland.

The Dutch net TV advertising market was estimated to be up 17% in the first six months of 2022, with RTL Nederland continuing to outperform the market. RTL Nederland's total revenue increased by 19.8% to EUR 303 million. This resulted in a record first half adjusted EBITA of EUR 86 million, up 59.3% from the first half of 2021. The profit margin was 28%, an outstanding performance. The combined Dutch family of channels delivered an audience share of 34.5%, up 1.4 percentage points year-on-year. The strong audience growth was again driven by the main channel, RTL 4, which scored high ratings with shows such as De Verraders, Make Up Your Mind, and the new format, Lage Landen.

RTL Nederland streaming service Videoland recorded paid subscriber growth of 6.2% compared to the end of June last year. Videoland's growth was largely driven by the four seasons of the original series Mocro Maffia and the reality format Temptation Island, both of which are exclusively available on Videoland in the Netherlands. Turning now to our global content business on slide 14. Fremantle. Revenue at Fremantle was up 8.1% to EUR 983 million, thanks to scope effects from the acquisitions of This is Nice Group, Lux Vide, and Element Pictures, plus positive foreign exchange rate effects.

The unit's revenue dropped 3.2% organically, mainly due to timing effects, as Fremantle's revenue in the first half of 2021 was boosted by the deliveries of Season One of The Mosquito Coast and Season Three of American Gods. This will normalize over the full year, and we still expect Fremantle to report significant organic revenue growth for the year 2022. In March, Fremantle CEO Jennifer Mullin presented you the boost plan for Fremantle to become a EUR 3 billion company by 2025. In the first six months, Fremantle completed five acquisitions and step-ups.

All transactions demonstrate Fremantle's strategic plan to invest and to grow premium production companies and creative talents around the world. I will now hand it back to Thomas, who will take you through the strategy update before presenting the offer.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Yeah, many thanks, Elmar. Let's turn to slide 16, which is our strategy framework, which is unchanged. It's based on three priorities, which are core, growth, and alliances and partnerships. Core means investing in premium content, strengthening our families of channels, cost and portfolio management, including larger consolidation moves. Growth continues to focus on streaming services, advertising technology, and addressable TV, as well as content production with Fremantle. Alliances and partnerships span from advertising, sales and content production to technology and data. Moving on to slide 17 , with some color on streaming, which clearly remains a growth business for us and for which we have clearly defined ambitious targets.

With more than 4.5 million paying subscribers at the end of June, our subscriber base grew by 48% year-on-year, mainly driven by RTL+ in Germany. Streaming revenue grew by 21% to EUR 130 million. As you can see on the slide, we increased our content spend by 46% to EUR 124 million in the past six months. This translates into streaming startup losses of EUR 74 million in the first half of the year. On the basis of strong growth in paying subscribers, and as a consequence of these higher investments, last year, RTL Group significantly raised its midterm targets for RTL+ and Videoland by 2026 as follows.

To grow the total number of paying subscribers to 10 million, to grow streaming revenue to EUR 1 billion, and to reach profitability. To reach these goals, we will increase the annual content spend to around EUR 600 million. This means that we will triple the annual content spend compared to 2021. The peak of the streaming start of loss is expected this year with around EUR 250 million. In summary, we are well on track to reach these targets, and the second half of the year will expand RTL+ to become a cross-media entertainment service comprising video, audio, and text.

The new RTL+ will offer our audiences the most diverse range of high quality entertainment and independent information, all in an easy to use and personalized manner, with an attractive price for the consumer. A German management team will soon present more details on the cross-media proposition of RTL +. Moving on to the next, slide, 18. We have a clear target structure for RTL Group's portfolio with national media champions in Germany, France, the Netherlands and Hungary, and cross-border cooperation in the areas of advertising sales, advertising technology, streaming technology, and content development. Finally, Fremantle has ambitious growth plans.

We've communicated clear targets to all of our growth businesses, which are as follows: Fremantle, EUR 3 billion revenue by 2025. Streaming, EUR 1 billion revenue by 2026. And addressable TV advertising, EUR 200 million revenue in Germany alone by 2025. Which means in total, EUR 2 billion revenue compared to 2021 coming from these three growth businesses. Finally, I'll now take you through the group's outlook statement for 2022. Due to softer than expected advertising markets, the effects of the FIFA World Cup in November and December, and numerous external factors, in particular the war in Ukraine, inflation, energy supply, and supply chain issues, RTL Group revised its outlook for 2022.

We now expect stable to negative TV advertising markets in the second half of 2022 across our portfolio and continued growth of the streaming and content markets. Visibility for the TV advertising markets remains low. Our revised adjusted EBITA guidance reflects a range of 0% to -8% for our TV advertising revenue in the second half of the year, and a cost compensation rate of approximately one-third. This wider range for our TV advertising revenue is explained by the numerous external factors and the unprecedented level of uncertainty I just mentioned.

As the major consolidation moves in France and the Netherlands are subject to regulatory review, our outlook assumes the full consolidation of Groupe M6 and RTL Nederland in the current scope for the full year 2022. On slide 26, based on these assumptions, we now expect our full-year revenue to be between EUR 7.3 billion and EUR 7.5 billion in 2022. The revenue increase is explained by positive scope and foreign exchange effects of approximately EUR 500 million and organic revenue growth of EUR 200 million -EUR 400 million , depending on the performance of the TV advertising markets in the second half of the year.

We also expect our adjusted EBITA for 2022 to be between EUR 1.05 billion and EUR 1.15 billion, including streaming startup losses of approximately EUR 250 million. This means that we expect our adjusted EBITA before streaming start-up losses to be between EUR 1.3 billion and EUR 1.4 billion in 2022. Our dividend policy remains unchanged. As you know, RTL Group plans to pay out at least 80% of the adjusted full -year net results, including cash capital gains. Thus, this brings us to the end of the presentation. Thank you for your attention, and we're now available for your questions.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we will begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star followed by one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star followed by two. Anyone who has a question may press star followed by one at this time. One moment for the first question, please. The first question is from Nizla Naizer from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Nizla Naizer
Director and Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Hi. Thank you very much. I have a couple of questions. The first is on the advertising outlook for the second half of the year. Could you maybe give us some color as to which sectors are you seeing, you know, specific weakness in, and what has sort of surprised you based on the outlook? And secondly, could you also give us some color by market, what sort of advertising outlook do you expect for the second half? Some color there would be great. My second question is on RTL+.

Any color that you can give us as to when you do plan to launch and whether the current outlook for advertising might change your mind based on, you know, whether you think this is the right time or not to go with the integrated offering. Some color on your thinking there would be great. Yeah, that's it from me for now. Thank you.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Great. I mean, on the advertising outlook, I have to tell you, but frankly, nobody knows how the advertising markets are going to perform in the second half of the year. There's complete lack of visibility, I'd even say predictability. It's quite unprecedented. You know, I've been around for 22 years, I've never seen anything like this. Because frankly, our customers don't know, the agencies don't know, and their customers don't know because they don't know how their businesses are doing and how they have to potentially cut their costs, including advertising spend. That's why we said that our outlook on the revenue and also on the EBITA side is based on zero, i.e., a stable advertising market, which I think is quite optimistic, to up to -8%.

If I would have to make a guess today, I'd say to probably come out at the midpoint of -4%. But as I said, you know, there's very, very little data to support this. In terms of markets, again, you know, we don't differentiate, but I would say that RTL Nederland is likely to be stronger than RTL in France, i.e., M6, and M6 is likely to be stronger than RTL Deutschland. Germany currently looks to be the weakest market, and the Netherlands the strongest market, but that is just kind of a snapshot today, things could change significantly over summer. In terms of sectors, Björn, anything you'd like to add, specific strengths or weaknesses we're seeing?

Björn Bauer
CFO, RTL Group

Yeah, I mean, last year we saw a broad recovery of all our sectors with, I would say, two exceptions. One was auto, the other one travel. In 2022, we did see a stronger performance of travel, but otherwise, I would say no particular sectors to highlight. I think the other point to mention is that the two summer months of July and August are among the two smallest months. So the swings that we are currently seeing are not as meaningful for the rest of the year. The four months September to December are the biggest four months of the year, so they will ultimately drive our performance.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

As I said before, you know, I mean, not only do we have a series of external factors which drive uncertainty, in addition to that, we have a major sports event, i.e., the World Cup, in the middle of the peak advertising season, which is November, December. There's just no data, frankly, no precedent to properly assess the potential effects. That's, as I said, why we've opted for the pretty broad range of stable to -8% advertising markets without being specific on individual markets or sectors. As far as RTL+ is concerned, first of all, I mean, as we presented the video, our product has significant traction with significant growth in our subscriber base and revenue. That's good.

We're going to extend the offer, as we announced last year in steps. The management of RTL Deutschland will make an announcement in the course of August, so pretty soon. You will then get a better understanding what the exact rollout plan is. How we're going to move from video only to video, audio, and text. You will also get a full visibility on the pricing of the offering, and I'm sure that when you see the pricing, you'll conclude that it's highly attractive for consumers. The bundle obviously leads to discounts compared to individual subscriptions, and we believe that it's particularly attractive in the inflationary environment in which we operate. We think the timing could not be better.

Nizla Naizer
Director and Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Thanks. Very helpful.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Yep. Thank you.

Operator

The next question is from Julien Roch from Barclays. Please go ahead.

Julien Roch
Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst, Barclays

Hi there. The first question coming back on, I suppose, the question that was just asked before. I understand that July and August are very small months, and I understand that it's quite hard to forecast what's gonna happen for the rest of the year. Truthfully, we never had the World Cup in November, December, as the last time ever. If you could still give us some indication of the trends in July and August in your streaming markets, that would be great. The second one is, initially, I believe you were saying you were expecting an outcome on Talpa RTL in kind of June, July.

It's now been pushed back to the autumn, and the European Commission approved the merger for everything but the core business, which is a bit bizarre. If you can give us some update on the Netherlands, what the regulators have said, why is it taking longer than expected? That's my second question. The last question is, in the past, you gave us total viewing in Germany, with the split between linear and on-demand. If we could get that for the first half, that would be great. Thank you.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Excellent. Let's start with July, August, Björn.

Björn Bauer
CFO, RTL Group

Yeah. I said before, two small months, so the swings are not as meaningful. In July, I said the weak environment continued, and we are down in July. August, at this point, we don't have full visibility, but August looks better. We have no real visibility on September and beyond.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Elmar, on the Netherlands?

Elmar Heggen
COO and Deputy CEO, RTL Group

Yeah, I mean.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

The delays.

Elmar Heggen
COO and Deputy CEO, RTL Group

These things are, unfortunately, sometimes take a bit more time than what we initially anticipated. We don't master the timetable because we are here a bit bound to the response time of the administration. That's why we have now said that we expect this to be decided in autumn, because it's not possible to give you a precise date, because we are not in control of that process.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Yeah. On total viewing in Germany, total viewing, that is linear and nonlinear, it's down by 6% from 11.265 million, so I mean effectively billion, to 10.6 million. And the split is -7% for linear viewing in the age group 3+, and +36% on linear, nonlinear viewing 3+.

Julien Roch
Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst, Barclays

Very good. Thank you for that. Coming back on the Netherlands, I understand you're not mastering the timetable, but did the regulator give you any indication of where they were going? Because, you know, in France, we're unfortunately, at the preliminary or interim report, saying that the case team is against the merger, because basically, they think the relevant market is still TV, which personally I disagree with, but that's their view. So any inkling of what's happening in the Netherlands?

Elmar Heggen
COO and Deputy CEO, RTL Group

Julien, unfortunately not. There hasn't been any kind of intermediate discussion or feedback that has been shared or given. No.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

The thing I'd say is that, I mean, don't conclude from France, or don't draw any conclusions for the Netherlands based on the French situation. First, the French situation is not final. Of course, it's disappointing that the case team of the ADLC, I mean, the competition authority came to a negative report. That's not the end of the story, Julien, as you know. The decision-making body is the college, the board of the competition authority, and we're going to do our utmost, together with our partner, Bouygues, at the beginning of September, to be more precise on the fifth and the sixth of September, to convince the college that a broader definition of relevant market, i.e. advertising market is justified.

We certainly think it is based on our daily practice in our business, but also based on a series of reports, which were produced by economic experts. There's a bit of work to be done there. You know, a slightly negative France today doesn't mean that the Netherlands are negative. They're just slightly slower than we all anticipated, maybe also for tactical reasons, who knows. The French advertising market and the Dutch advertising market are very, very different in their structure and in their digital penetration. That's where we stand. Listen, we would have loved to give you better news, and we'll continue to fight.

That's very, very clear. We think that the arguments and the facts are on our side, and we will present them forcefully in September. We'll give you the feedback as soon as we have it for France and then for the Netherlands.

Julien Roch
Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst, Barclays

Very good. Thank you.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Thanks.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by one on your telephone. We have a question from Laurent Saglio from Zadig Asset Management. Please go ahead.

Laurent Saglio
Founding Partner, Zadig Asset Management

Yes, it's Laurent Saglio from Zadig Asset Management. Thank you for taking my question. I'd like to ask you, what is plan B in September, if indeed, you cannot sell or you cannot merge your stake into, TF1? I believe at the time you had an option, pre-agreeing on a merger with TF1. Will you reanimate this, process? Thanks.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Listen, we are fully focused on option A or plan A, which is the combination of TF1 and M6's. As I just said before, we're going to do our utmost to convince the Collège of the Autorité de la concurrence to green light the deal based on what we consider to be acceptable remedies. So that's, you know, that's the way we work, right? I don't work on three plans in parallel. We work on one plan. What I would say, and you know that, is that M6's is a very strong company with an excellent management team in 2021 with record performance. It was a very strong first half of 2022.

This company has many strategic options, but I don't want to talk about them. I don't want to speculate about them. We're fully focused on the option which we announced last year. As I said, we'll do what we can in September to convince everybody that this is the right move for the industry and the right move for the two companies.

Laurent Saglio
Founding Partner, Zadig Asset Management

Can I add another question?

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Please.

Laurent Saglio
Founding Partner, Zadig Asset Management

Yeah. In your target for Fremantle of EUR 3 billion turnover in 2025, if I understood what you were saying?

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Yeah.

Laurent Saglio
Founding Partner, Zadig Asset Management

Can you remind me what EBIT margin you're aiming at in 2025? Also, out of this EUR 3 billion, how much is acquisition and what's the average multiple you're paying? Thank you.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Okay. Well, listen, we're going to probably be at EUR 2.3 billion-EUR 2.4 billion revenue for Fremantle this year, which shows that we're making very good progress because we started at EUR 1.5 billion when we announced the plan. That was a COVID year, admittedly. We have real traction. We said at the time that approximately 50% of the growth would come from organic growth and 50% would come from M&A. The margin which we expect is between 8% and 9%. It's really as a matter of business mix more than anything. That's an EBITA margin, right? Not to be confused with EBITDA margins, which other companies are using, which are arguably slightly inflated for this kind of business.

The multiples we pay really depend on the business we acquire, the type of business we acquire, how much IP it has, what customer relationships it has, how many formats it has, how dependent it is on specific customers, whether it owns its IP and its distribution rights or not. Very often, you know, we pay an EBITA multiple to get to a majority position, and then have put and call arrangements with different multiples to set the right incentives. It's really, I mean, I really wouldn't want to give you an average EBITA multiple because it would be totally misleading. What we see in the market is that there are very interesting acquisition opportunities for us.

That Fremantle is considered to be a very good home for small to medium-sized production companies. This is why we've made a series of very, very prominent acquisitions. Lux Vide in Italy is probably, you know, one of the, if not the most prominent production company in the country. Element Pictures from Ireland is certainly one of the most prominent production companies in the UK and Ireland. We're very pleased with the progress we're making. We're not going to make large-scale acquisitions in production. It's small and medium sized in all categories, entertainment, fiction and increasingly, factual and documentaries, which is an area which we're growing strongly, both organically and via acquisitions.

Operator

Mr. Saglio, are you finished with your question?

Laurent Saglio
Founding Partner, Zadig Asset Management

Yes. Thank you very much for the answer.

Operator

There are no further questions at this time, and I hand back over to Thomas Rabe for closing comments.

Thomas Rabe
CEO, RTL Group

Listen, thanks all for listening to us. Thanks for your time and interest in the company. We look forward to keeping in touch. If you have any further questions for your modeling, please contact our investor relations team. Have a great day, great weekend, good summer. As I said, stay tuned. Thank you.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now concluded and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for joining, and have a pleasant day. Goodbye.

Powered by