R. STAHL AG (ETR:RSL2)
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May 7, 2026, 11:29 PM CET
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Earnings Call: Q4 2022

Apr 27, 2023

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome also from my side, and thank you for joining our today's conference call. Our prepared slides are also available under the investor relations sections of our website, www.r-stahl.com. A replay of the entire conference will be at the same place shortly after we've finished. Please be aware of our disclaimer statement, which you find at the beginning of the slide deck. Now, I'll pass on to Dr. Mathias Hallmann, our group's CEO, who will walk you through the presentation.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Warm welcome to our investors and analyst call, also from my side. We start with the highlights of 2022. Overall, we confirm our preliminary numbers we already published in February this year. Our order intake jumped 20% to a level of EUR 313.5 million. Our sales improved year-on-year 10.6% to a level of EUR 274.3 million. We saw an EBITDA pre increase of EUR 4.4 million or 24.5% to a level of EUR 22.3 million. Free cash flow slightly improved to - EUR 4.4 million despite a very strong build-up of working capital in order to safeguard deliveries to our customers.

We see a very nice net profit increase by EUR 6.9 million to EUR 1.9 million due to higher sales and improved cost structures. The earnings per share ended at EUR 0.30. We go into the details. We see a strong development in almost all of our regions. Germany up 7%, Central Region up 9%, Asia Pacific, 4%, and America, 42%. Also, we have to admit that came from a very, very soft level due to the COVID crisis. We are still very strong embedded in the oil and gas industry in Americas. That was heavily affected during COVID. This is the recovery now. We also see ourselves growing strongly into other segments.

This is something I'm gonna address later on when we talk about ongoing strategy implementation. Looking at the P&L, it starts with the increased sales. We see good economies on the personal cost side with an increase of 5%, where we increased sales by 10.6%. A negative impact from higher material costs due to supply chain issues. We had to buy significant volumes, sometimes, especially for electronics on the gray market, what drove our material costs. We will see in our first quarter numbers that this is improving right now, and that was a temporary effect in 2022 only. These were the two main effects. Overall, EBIT increased then from -EUR 0.1 to EUR 4 million, or EUR 3.9 million, and EBITDA pre from EUR 17.9 to EUR 22.3.

The strongest improvement, as I already explained in the net profit from -EUR 4.9 million to EUR 1.9 million. That's also due to a very strong financial result, where our interest expenses were basically offset by the strong performance of our Russian subsidiary. Free cash flow, it starts with a good improvement in the net profit. We see that we had significant changes in the working capital, as already explained, in order to safeguard deliveries, we have, which brings down cash flow from operating activities to EUR 6 million, where we had EUR 12 million last year. We cut our investments down or controlled our investments, but I have to say, without harming our future development.

We will catch up this year with these activities so that we finally end in a free cash flow of -EUR 4.4 million, where we had -EUR 6 million last year. Our net debt increased to EUR 29.2 million, where it was at EUR 18.3 million last year. These are the numbers. We saw a good improvement in 2022. When we now move to 2023, this nice development, which basically came from the second year in 2022, is accelerating. You see here the order intake and the sales development over the last three years, starting from the bottom in the Q3 and Q4 of the COVID crisis. We see improved numbers during 2021, accelerating numbers in the orders in 2022.

We couldn't catch up, really with sales in the first half of the year due to supply chain issues, which we partly solved in the second half. Now, in Q1, we see a dramatic improvement on the order side and also a very nice improvement again on the sales side. Orders are up 29%, sales are up 28%. Nevertheless, the gap between orders and sales is still big, which brings us to a very nice order backlog of, in the meantime, EUR 126 million. The preliminary results in Q1, you see the sales improving 28%. Cost of material only increasing 18%. Our material ratio, as I already indicated, is going down. We have several effects there.

First is that we manage to implement price increases. Second is a very strong quality of the orders. Thirdly, we get our supply chains under control, and that results in these improvements. We see very nice efficiencies on the personal cost side, where we basically have only 10% of the sales improvement as an increase on the personal cost that drives very nice economies. Operating expenses. Expenses are slightly up as we have to catch up with a couple of initiatives which we couldn't fully implement during the COVID crisis. Nevertheless, that all results in a EBIT improvement of EUR 7.2 million from -EUR 1.1 million to EUR 6.1 million. EBITDA pre-improvement of EUR 7.4 million from EUR 3 million to EUR 10.4 million.

A net profit from improvement from -EUR 5.4 million to EUR 3.9 million, which results in earning per share of EUR 0.60 for the quarter, which is 100% up in comparison to the full year 2022. A good start. Good start into the year. We get our operations under control. We leave COVID behind us. We start concentrating on strategy again. What you see here is, let's say a very high level description of our strategy. Those who follow us for quite some time, they might remember our initiative, which we call STAHL 2020. We concentrated very much on efficiency, lean operations, processes, especially with sales processes, IT, harmonization.

We streamlined our portfolio, reduced complexity and, we put first innovation projects into our plans and implemented them. Added with our STAHL EXcellence 2023 program, which we released in 2020. We added targeted growth initiatives which are very much based on ongoing mega trends. I'm gonna come to that. We focused on segments like pharma, chemicals, LNG, and started focusing on hydrogen. In the meantime, we also added nuclear. We started our sustainability initiatives and concentrated on data governance. These initiatives, I would say are part of our DNA now. We are not giving up on them. We are going to run them over the next couple of years.

We add another two, let's say, building blocks into our strategy. The first is internationalization. If we look into our numbers, I dare to say we have a market share in the DACH region, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, which is beyond 1/3. We have a market share in Europe, which is probably somewhere around 20%. When we leave Europe, we are probably nowhere above five. Nevertheless, we do have a leading portfolio in every aspect. We have a leading Automation portfolio, we have a leading lighting portfolio, we have a leading low voltage portfolio, and we have a global presence. This is one thing we are going to leverage in the next couple of years that we really concentrate on the internationalization of our business in terms of processes, structures.

That means implementing the strategy, which was not really possible during the COVID crisis, and develop market shares, but we also need to focus stronger on a global culture of the business. The next building block is digitalization. We started with that. I mean, most of our products are digital. We started thinking about digital services and digital business models. We automate and digitalize our internal processes. This is something we have to accelerate. What we need to add is also global, comprehensive data structures. We are going to step in first application of artificial intelligence in order to really become, I would almost say, a kind of a digital enterprise in the next couple of years and drive efficiencies in every aspect of the business. Quick look on the mega trends.

The population, the global population is growing, the climate is changing, mobility is increasing, digitalization is driving all aspects of our environment and our businesses. That drives needs and we as STAHL can benefit from that, as we explain in the next slide. Energy change, we talked a lot about it. We were always saying LNG is the bridging technology to hydrogen. We started predicting that three, four years ago. I think in the meantime, everybody knows it. This is a prediction of global LNG demand until 2040. It's from June 2020. I would expect that the numbers are even higher with increased investment in LNG and increasing focus on climate change in all parts of the world.

We are strongly benefiting from it. What you see on this slide is a LNG value chain. You have your natural gas production. You have liquefaction. You ship, you regasify, and you bring it into the end user. We as STAHL are historically very strong on the liquefaction side. We are very strong on the shipping side. We are actually the market leader on the shipping side. I think 80% of all LNG ships worldwide, at least 80% are equipped with our automation devices. We do have enormous demand, increasing demand, stable demand over the next couple of years. Now we work ourselves more towards the end user. We will be seeing effects that ships are not allowed with their oil engine to move close to cities.

They will have additional LNG driven engines that requires bunkering, that also requires. The ships need to be provided with LNG on the sea. That requires the engines, that requires automation. We already see strong demand from the end user side, and we are working ourselves into it. We see first nice successes. I guess, I'm very positive, we will build our strong position also into that segment. Hydrogen. We do see strong demand for hydrogen, not tomorrow. Even we have first nice projects, but definitely in five to 10 years. The specification work is being done today.

We are—o ur position in LNG, we virtually built five, 10, 15 years ago, when we started working with our customers. The same we do right now with potential providers of hydrogen technologies. You see the STAHL logo almost everywhere. On the power chain side, we know it, but also on the storage and distribution side for hydrogen when it comes to electrolysis, when it comes to storage, but also when we think about the methanization and the CO2 buffering, we are in the game. Then also when transportation and when we come to the end user, our technology is needed. What I can say is that 100% of our automation portfolio, 100% of our lighting portfolio, and the vast majority of our low voltage portfolio is already today, hydrogen ready.

Our new segment, nuclear power. I know, I know, nuclear power has not a positive, let's say, impression on everybody, but our strategy is very clear. As long nuclear power plants are being built, we will participate in making them as safe as possible. We are not in the position to judge whether nuclear is a good or a bad technology. The U.K. The U.K. is planning to approve one huge nuclear power plant every year up to 2030. After very good specification work from our side, we were awarded the first nuclear power plant, Hinkley Point C.

We are going to deliver all lighting equipment, LED lighting equipment for this plant. That has a minimum volume, what we see right now, of roughly EUR 10 million. We are expecting that volume will be increasing. We are hard specified for the next projects which are coming up. This is a very nice development for us that we quickly move into a segment where in the past we had no orders, no volume, and now I would expect a double-digit million euro number in this segment every year in the decades to come. Digitalization, as I said, we are focusing on processes. Our sales processes are becoming more and more digital. Finance processes are digitalized. All of our automation products are digital per definition.

All of our LED lights have a digital interface and can be addressed in an automation network. Many of our low voltage applications and products are becoming more and more digital. We are right now developing digital service models because more and more customers ask, for example, for condition monitoring, so that we monitor and control their devices remotely. We see that more and more customers do have less competency for explosion protection. They expect us not only to plan their installations and deliver product, but also engineer builds and maybe in the future, completely run it and take responsibility for performance. That can only be done with digital models where we remote control devices for our customers.

This is something we are moving in and in order to become a digital company and around that we have to build data models and artificial intelligence capabilities as I already explained. What we see here is a nice example. I talked about it some years ago. Now it's real. It's the first fully remote controlled ship for transportation in the oil and gas industry. It has been built in Norway. One of our big customers was heavily involved and we delivered equipment for heat tracing and lighting. When it comes to internationalization, what I also described, we see Europe here, and Europe right now has probably 70%+ of our turnover. We have a good presence in North America.

We have a very good presence in Asia Pacific, and we have distributors assigned in almost all relevant markets in the rest of the world. This is clearly now where our internationalization strategy is going to focus in the coming years in order to bring R. STAHL on a different economic level as we have it today. Last but not least, about our outlook or our guidance. Our sales forecast right now is somewhere between EUR 305 million and EUR 320 million. We still see some supply chain issues. Also, they are weakening. Getting people on board is also a challenge. We are going to struggle for a while to bring our sales to the level where our orders are. Nevertheless, we don't lose on the order side.

That means that competition is having the same problems. EBITDA pre, we expect somewhere between EUR 30 million and EUR 36 million. We will definitely need to add new positions in order to implement strategy and manage the growth. We will also be seeing salary increases during the year, significant salary increases. That will put some pressure on our cost structure. Nevertheless, this is a very nice improvement compared to the numbers we saw last year. Free cash flow, we expect to move into the positive range with a low single digit EUR million amount and a slight increase of our equity ratio under the assumption that interest rates of our pension provisions stay almost stable.

Risk, everybody knows it, the Russia-Ukraine crisis, the ongoing supply chain issues and inflation and interest rates. Nevertheless, we are dealing with that since quite some time, so that I would expect that we have it well under control. This is it from my side. Thank you very much. I'm open for questions.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we will begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star followed by one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star followed by two. If you are using speaker equipment today, please lift the handset before making your selections. Anyone who has a question may press star followed by one at this time. One moment for the first question, please. Our first question comes from the line of Klaus Schlote with Solventis. Please go ahead.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Good morning. Very good numbers, especially Q1. Very strong. Maybe we start with Q1. If I've calculated correctly, we have got an EBITDA pre-margin of about 13.3% in Q1. If I do the same exercise for the guidance for 2023, looking at the low and the high end of the guidance, then it's somewhere between 10% and 11.3%. That would mean quite simply thinking that during the next quarters, profitability on the EBITDA pre-level should come down a bit. What is your thinking on that?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Good morning, Mr. Schlote. As I said during the explanation of my last slide, the strong increases in the personal costs are coming now. We will be seeing an increase of 5% to 6% in Germany starting, I think, from June. If you put that together with our personal cost ratio, then well, you have probably 1%, 2% or even more of EBITDA. This is the biggest effect. The second effect is that in order to deal with all the growth initiatives and prepare for strong growth rates in the next two, three years, we have to build or we have to acquire some talent.

These are the nature effects. Also, typically Q2, April or May, with all these public holidays, are historically weaker. When we put all that together, this is our expectation.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Okay. On your words in the beginning of the annual report, you are mentioning that you will, in the midterm, get a or reach a very good profitability.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Yeah.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Can you put a number to that?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

I can do what you can do. I mean, if you analyze our P&L, you see that when we finally cover our fixed costs, we get a kind of a turbo because we are very much fixed cost driven due to our global structure. When you look into the improvements and the numbers, it's that we strongly increase sales and without really building lots of personal resources. I would expect if we see this development is going on, and that's my expectation in the midterm, we should have a double-digit EBIT profitability percentage.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

EBIT, okay. Regarding your outlook in the annual report, you are mentioning that you are expecting the performance to go up further in 2023. You're kind of putting a kind of a setback in so far as you say on a lower level. My understanding is the increase in 2023 in terms of percentage points and percent might be a little bit lower than 2022. Is that a correct understanding of your—

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

No. On the top line, we would expect I mean, 2022, we had a growth rate of 10.6%. If you look at our growth rate now in 2023, the lower barrier of the guidance is probably around 11%. We do expect accelerating growth and we see that already in or in, let's say, on a year-on-year comparison. The 30% from the first quarter, that's not realistic because we will most likely not see a 30% order intake increase during the year. We will not be able to ramp up production with a level of 30%. This is built into this forecast. Yeah.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Okay.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

What you could expect or what you can expect is that these numbers already today indicate ongoing growth in 2024. We still have very good orders for 2024.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Okay. Thank you so far.

Operator

As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one on your telephone. Star followed by one. We have a question coming from the line of Christian Sandherr with NuWays AG. Please go ahead.

Christian Sandherr
Co-CEO, NuWays AG

Hi, good morning, everyone. I would have a follow-up question on the topic surrounding the nuclear power plants. You've only been talking about supplying lighting solutions for the plant that's currently being built in the U.K., and there's an additional plant every year. Looking more on a even just Pan-European space, there's lots of plants being built. Are you also trying to get in any of the other plants? Because I think, I mean, if with one plant, you can do up to EUR 10 million in sales. I think that's quite significant potential. If so, why not?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Yes. The background of Hinkley is that the owner of this plant, I think is EDF, and the main engineering contractor is also a company coming from France. Now we all know that France has to refurbish roughly 50 nuclear plants in the coming decades, and they are planning to build another six. We are very, very well-positioned to participate in that development also. The work which we did in order to get specified in the U.K. was done mainly in France with our French colleagues, with the participation of our U.K. colleagues and also with the participation of our technical teams in our wire plant, in our lighting plant in Weimar.

Yes, our expectations is that we also move into other markets and see additional potential. France would be the market number one with huge potential. Right now I'm not unhappy as a start with EUR 10 million per year in the U.K., but there is most likely more to come. Yeah.

Christian Sandherr
Co-CEO, NuWays AG

Okay, great. Can you also shed a little bit light on how you intend to grow your international market share?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Actually the same way we did it in Europe. It's really the implementation of the strategy, really putting all these programs into operations we had or we implemented here, starting with process improvements, process standardization, IT standardization. This is already ongoing. Then the other thing is really market, let's say business development. Business development. What you see in our industry, it's highly regulated. It's highly depending on internal and external approvals, it has high entry and exit barriers. What we couldn't do during the last couple of years is really investing in the amount of specialist capabilities you need.

You need to have, for example, in automation, you need to have in lighting, in order to work with the customers, get specified, develop specific solutions for the customers, and then start delivering product to them maybe a year, two or three years later. We just didn't have the funds to finance it all over the place. We couldn't travel the way we needed. This is what we could not implement this fully the strategy we implemented in Europe. We know it's working.

We do have a fantastic portfolio, and therefore we are very, very confident that we can start building a way stronger position in these markets, for example, the U.S., the Middle East, Asia, but also in parts of Africa than we did in the past.

Christian Sandherr
Co-CEO, NuWays AG

Okay. If you talk about investments, you're mainly talking about personnel, right?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

We talk about specialists. It's not huge numbers, For example, when you want to sell, i magine you want to sell automation, you need a critical mass of people. You probably need a hub with five specialists, which you have to finance over a period of two to three years until they start paying back.

Christian Sandherr
Co-CEO, NuWays AG

We're not talking about a massive CapEx program.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

No, no, no. We are not talking about CapEx.

Christian Sandherr
Co-CEO, NuWays AG

Yeah. Okay.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

We are talking about investments in automation experts, in lighting experts, in business development, people. We do have the structure in place. We do have the global footprint in place to grow this business to EUR 500 million without major investments.

Christian Sandherr
Co-CEO, NuWays AG

Okay, great. Can you, for last question, maybe give some insights on the order intake in Q1. Is there anything in particular that was driving it? 'Cause it was obviously exceptionally high.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

No. No. It's no big project in it.

Christian Sandherr
Co-CEO, NuWays AG

So, overall stronger—

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

LNG is crucial. LNG is extremely strong. Pharmaceutical, with automation is extremely strong, but also special chemicals. Even the oil industry, is strong. It's really coming from all segments.

Christian Sandherr
Co-CEO, NuWays AG

Okay. Right. Sounds good. Thanks. That would be it for myself.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Thank you.

Operator

The next question comes from the line of Christian Glowa with Hauck & Aufhaeuser . Please go ahead.

Christian Glowa
Analyst, Hauck & Aufhaeuser

Good morning, Mr. Hallmann.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Good morning.

Christian Glowa
Analyst, Hauck & Aufhaeuser

I have another question with regard to the nuclear power. How does this involvement in nuclear power impact your environmental footprint and ESG factors? Does it have an impact?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

It's definitely ESG-driven because the old generations of nuclear plants, they were always let's say standard lighting. As part of ESG strategies from our customers, now the whole industry is moving towards LED lighting with much lower energy consumption. This is the driver behind it. For us, it's supportive. First of all, the European Union has classified nuclear power as sustainable energy. Secondly, LED lighting under the current regulations is seen as a very positive factor in a ESG strategy.

Christian Glowa
Analyst, Hauck & Aufhaeuser

Mm-hmm. It doesn't have an impact on your own ESG.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Yes, it has because the amount of product which is classified as under the EU taxonomy, which is classified as sustainable, is increasing. It will have a positive impact on our ESG reporting in the coming years.

Christian Glowa
Analyst, Hauck & Aufhaeuser

Okay. I didn't understand your remarks about Russia. Can you help me out with what is the situation in Russia and?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Very simple. I can. We stopped any business with Russia, to make that very clear.

Christian Glowa
Analyst, Hauck & Aufhaeuser

Yeah.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

We are following 100% political frame, which we are having. We do have a 25%, historically, a 25% participation in a Russian company. This company is just booming. It's driven by the fact that Russian customers which bought from outside Russia don't have this possibility anymore and they have to buy inside the country, and that's driving strongly the business of this company, and we participate in that. To make that very clear, we don't have, we don't deliver to them. We have no influence on financing or day-to-day operations. We also didn't see an opportunity until today, a reasonable opportunity to step out.

We, on the other hand, we are participating from the development or in the development and benefiting from the development in Russia. Yeah. That's it. As a kind of unfortunate, you know, almost windfall from this crisis. Yeah.

Christian Glowa
Analyst, Hauck & Aufhaeuser

Mm-hmm. You are able to profit, financially at the moment, or is it a future, stays the money there? Do you get the money?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

We are getting dividends under the current. There are limitations, but we are getting dividends.

Christian Glowa
Analyst, Hauck & Aufhaeuser

Mm-hmm. Okay. Thank you.

Operator

The next question comes from the line of Ulrich Sachse with UniCredit Bank. Please go ahead.

Ulrich Sachse
VP of Relationship Manager Corporates, UniCredit Bank

Hello, Dr. Hallmann. First of all, very good figures and an impressive order intake and order book you have already. You point out your internationalization strategy. Could you just give us a better view on the costs of this, especially the R&D rate should be impacted by this. How much do you need to invest to internationalize your business?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

The R&D rate, I mean, we will not significantly go up due to this internationalization strategy. The reason for that is that 90% + of our business are under the ATEX / IECEx norms, and that's a standard which is applicable almost everywhere outside North America. Definitely, I would see with the growth rate we have, our R&D rate is rather going down at, also our absolute cost might slightly increase because we also have to face the realities that we will not be able to build up the organization that quickly and find the right people and to find the new programs.

I would not see that the R&D rate is going up. What we need, and I already explained that we need experts on the market side, on the sales side. I mean, if assume I put 20, 30 experts into the market for automation and lighting, assume a cost of maybe EUR 100,000 per person and year, then we need another EUR 10 million of turnover in order to compensate that, and that will be easily possible with these investments. This internationalization strategy should not harm our P&L, because we don't see huge investments in equipment, in plants, in infrastructure. We don't see jumping fixed costs.

It's all on at the customer end in order to work with customers and the payback should be two years maximum.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Okay. Thank you. That sounds great. The second question, it's second pillar of your strategy is the ESG part. Could you give us a brief outlook on your ESG strategy and maybe a support via an ESG rating by an external agency? Is there anything planned?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

I mean, we started internally to build a kind of ESG balanced scorecard in the last two, three years in order to collect first numbers. It has many dimensions. It has the dimension to reduce our internal CO2 footprint, that's for sure. Part of that was also the buildup of our solar plant here in Waldenburg, which brings us close to CO2 neutrality. The second, let's say, big building block is the product side. I already talked about the LED lighting. We are growing significantly with our lighting portfolio and all these LED lights are rated as sustainable product under the EU taxonomy.

The final ESG strategy we are right now defining, the KPIs we are defining, and we will be starting with full reporting in 2024. Already today, we are rated sometimes from investors, from customers. Part of this ESG strategy is also that we will be looking for external rating. I don't know what the organization we use for that. The market is developing quickly. We are observing it. As I said, we are building this. We are defining, building the strategy right now, but it's not finalized.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Okay. Thank you very much. The last word, congratulations to the extension of your contract.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Thank you.

Operator

Once again, to ask a question, please press star and one on your telephone. Star followed by one. We have a follow-up question from Mr. Schlote with Solventis. Please go ahead.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Yes. Thank you. Follow-up question regarding CapEx. It was mentioned quite a few times, but without a number. Can Dr. Hallmann, can you give us an idea about CapEx in 2023? Level of CapEx.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Should be around EUR 16 million-EUR 18 million, I would expect.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Okay. The Russia was mentioned, business of ZAVOD, I guess, is the name of the company where you have got the 25%.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Yeah.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

There was a write down in the Q1 on ZAVOD in the order of EUR 3.1 million.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Yeah—

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

The—

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

—it was put back in Q4.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Yeah. The reasoning was, when I remember correctly, that Russia was downgraded to a non-investment grade.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Yes.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Is Russia now back in investment grade, or what is the reason that we have the turn, you turned the write down back?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

You are absolutely right. It was pulled down on investment grade, and then it was just the higher, let's say, risk rate in which we needed to apply in our predictions.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Mm-hmm.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Which will brought down the entity value. Another effect was this very strong or weak exchange rate in the beginning of the crisis. You might remember the ruble was at RUB 140 per euro. It then came down to 60, and it's now stabilizing somewhere about 80. The exchange rate changed back to the pre-crisis level. The business development itself was very strong and that brought the whole valuation, despite that Russia is still on a very low rating level, brought it back to the original valuation.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

As I saw that you have a dividend of EUR 1.7 million to get from ZAVOD or ZAVOD.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

ZAVOD GORELTEX , yeah.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Yeah, GORELTEX. EUR 1.7 million in terms of dividends from this company or your participation there. Do you think you actually get the money in 2023 or is it—

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Um, we—

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

—hold back in Russia?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Under the current regulation, we can pull RUB 100 million. No, RUB 10 million per month.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Okay.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Which is roughly EUR 120,000. We started that process in, I think it was in October last year, November last year, until now. November, December, January, February, March, April, six months, we got the money.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Okay.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Now you can calculate, it will take another 12 years until we have it. 12 months.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

12 months, yes.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Sorry for that.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Okay. Maybe ZAVOD will generate further profits, and you—

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Yeah, yeah.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

—additional dividends or, yeah.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Under the current regulation, we will get roughly EUR 120,000 per month.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Per month, okay.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

For the foreseen future.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Okay. you mentioned, did I understand it correctly that you got an offer to sell your stake in, ZAVOD?

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

We didn't get a reasonable offer or something we would consider as serious. We had different people approaching us, but at this point of time, nothing we would really consider.

Klaus Schlote
Vorstand, Solventis AG

Okay. That was it from my side. Thank you.

Operator

There are no further questions at this time. I hand back to Dr. Mathias Hallmann for closing comments.

Mathias Hallmann
CEO, R. STAHL AG

Yeah. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for participating in this investors and analysts call. Hope to see you all again when we publish our hopefully positive Q2 results somewhere in August. Until then, wish you all the best, and thank you.

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