Welcome everyone. We very much appreciate that you are taking the time for this Investor and Analyst call on our first half 2023 results. You can find today's presentation in our investor relations website. Also, please be informed that the Analyst consensus is available on our investor relations website under Share Consensus as well. This conference call is scheduled for 60 minutes and will be recorded. The replay will be available for seven working days. After the presentation, I will be happy to answer your questions. Our agenda for today: first, I will start with an overview with some key financial highlights. After that, I will walk you through the figures for first half 2023, as well as for the outlook. I expect my presentation to last about 20-fi-- 45 minutes. After the presentation, I'm happy to answer your questions. I refer to our disclaimer on page two.
Let's move to page four, financial highlights for first half 2023. After a strong Q1, we successfully continued our growth course in Q2 2023. Group sales in first half 2023 increased by 65% to EUR 779 million, and were thus at the upper end of the sales range published on June 23rd. All three segments contributed to this very positive development. I'll come back to the individual segments later. EBITDA also increased significantly from EUR 6 million in the first half to EUR 125 million this year. Free cash flow was also very strong, again, with EUR 81 million after, order backlog is still on a very high level of about EUR 2.5 billion. Let's go to page five, Sales by Region and by Segment.
On the left-hand side, you can see that EMEA, our biggest region again, increased from 57% to 75% end of first half 2023. Revenue share in Americas decreased from 27% to 27, due to the much stronger growth in the EMEA region. Revenues in Americas grew by 22%. In our APAC region, we continue to face challenging Asian competition and postponement of large-scale projects to next quarters. As such, the share of this region decreased from 16% to 5%. Let me walk you through the sales per segment on the right side of the slide. As already said, all three segments contributed to this very positive revenue development. In our Home segment, revenues grew exceptionally from EUR 136 million last year to EUR 327 million in the first six months 2023, with EMEA as the strongest region again.
Reasons for this extraordinary revenue growth were better availability of components, helping us to process the order backlog more quickly than expected, and ongoing very high demand in EMEA. C&I achieved EUR 194 million, compared to EUR 118 million last year, a plus of 64% after a very strong Q2, where the supply situation significantly improved. EMEA was the strongest region for this segment as well. Large Scale revenues increased by about 18%, from EUR 218 million to EUR 257 million in first half 2023, with Americas again, the strongest region. Now, let me provide you with some more information on first half 2023 profitability. Profitability for the group has grown substantially in the first six months, from EUR 16 million last year to EUR 125 million in the first half of 2023.
The positive development was driven by both the increase in revenues as a result of improved material supply and the associated fixed cost regression in production, as well as a continued high-margin product mix. EBITDA margin came in at 16% compared to 3% in the first half last year. All segments posted outstanding earning development and significantly improved their profitability in the period under review. Similar to first half 2022, we received approximately EUR 5 million of other income from customers cancellation fees as one-off. With EUR 90 million, depreciation was on last year's level. Let's have a look at the segments in detail. Home Solutions. Our Home Solutions segment, which has been again, the most profitable segment, substantially grew its EBIT to EUR 93 million, where the EUR 17 million in first half 2022.
This was mainly driven by sales growth, higher productivity, and fixed cost deflation. This led to an EBIT margin of 28%, compared to 13% last year. We are very happy about the earlier than planned EBIT improvement for C&I and Large Scale. Both segments are back in black and on course to deliver solid, positive results for this year. C&I increased its EBIT from minus EUR 11 million last year to positive EUR 7 million this year, which is a positive earnings swing of EUR 18 million. Main drivers were higher revenues and increased production utilization. EBIT margin therefore, came in at about 3% compared to minus 9% last year. EBIT in the Large Scale segment also improved significantly to positive EUR 9 million, after minus EUR 6 million in the first half 2022, an improvement of EUR 15 million.
The increase in sales, as well as slight recoveries of price levels compared to last year, contributed to this. Thus, EBIT margin amounted to 3%, compared to -3% in the first half of 2022. Now, I will move on to the balance sheet and the net working capital development on the next slide. Net working capital, which is shown on the top of the left page, reached EUR 251 million, and is slightly above the year-end figure of EUR 239 million. This resulted in a ratio of 18%, which is slightly below the management target corridor of 20%-23%. Let me explain the net working capital development in detail.
Inventories of first half 2023 were, were at EUR 469 million, and increased compared to end of 2022, with EUR 309 million, because of the high customer demand and the buildup of inventories to support our strong sales growth. Trade receivables, which increased due to the high sales in the first half, were offset by an increase in trade payables and an increase in advance payments received from our customers, driven by our strong large-scale project pipeline. Net cash position increased again by 39% from EUR 220 at the end, to EUR 309 million, driven by significantly improved profitability compared to last year. In addition, we successfully concluded a new revolving credit facility line of EUR 380 million, which with an expanded group of banks in June.
This expansion of the revolving credit facility line clearly shows the confidence of our banks in SMA's business model and in our future prospects. With this credit line, we support the cause for further profitable growth. The credit line has a term of five years, with an extension option, and replaces the previous syndicated credit line of EUR 100 million. Currently, there is no need to draw this new credit facility, but it will give us the support for further profitable growth when needed. Now, let's have a look on the group balance sheet on the right side of the page. Our non-current assets increased to EUR 450 million, mainly reflecting investments into our product pipeline in the form of capitalized R&D project costs, as well as an increase of our deferred tax assets.
Shareholders' equity increased to EUR 566 million, supported by the positive result of the first six months. Provisions increased to EUR 171 million, mainly as a result of increased warranty provisions in line with the higher level of sales. Our liabilities grow to EUR 467 million, mainly from the strong uptake of advanced customer payments, which are considered in the net working capital. That concludes my explanations of the balance sheet. Let's now have a look at our summary of cash flow on the next slide. In first half 2023, SMA generated a gross cash flow of EUR 143 million, compared to minus EUR 3 million the year before, driven by strong positive results in the first six months.
Given our positive gross cash flow and a solid net working capital, cash flow from operating activities were also positive compared to last year, reaching EUR 113 million end of June 2023. The group invested EUR 32 million in net CapEx in first half, which mainly composed of investments in our product portfolio, including capitalized R&D project costs and investments in fixed assets. Considering all these, our free cash flow for the first 6 months, 2023, significantly increased from -EUR 42 million last year to +EUR 81 million in the first half of this year. Let me summarize the first 6 months of 2023. SMA Group sales increased significantly by 65% to EUR 779 million, with all segments achieving strong growth. Gross margin for first half for the group achieved 30%, after 20% in first half 2022.
The improvement was preliminarily driven by the higher sales growth in all segments and the improved utilization of our production capacities. C&I and Large Scale managed double-digit sales growth and returned to profitability faster than planned. This once again underlines the market potential of both segments. EBITDA increased significantly to EUR 125 million, from EUR 16 million in first half 2022, due to high demand, better utilization and productivity, as well as improvements in our supply chain. As a consequence, net income increased also very positively to EUR 104 million, after -EUR 11 million last year, as a result of the very good operating performance. The high level of profitability also contributed to a very positive free cash flow of EUR 81 million for first half 2023.
As you can see in our quarterly overview on the right side of the page, we continued on a growth path on both top and bottom line, as expected. C&I and Large Scale also managed double-digit sales growth, which underlines the market potential of both segments. That wraps up my summary of first half key financials. Now let's take a look into the outlook and the guidance for 2023. Looking at the right side of the slide, you can see that our order backlog still remains on an extraordinary high level of up to EUR 2.5 billion at the end of June. Product and order backlog is also stable on a high level of EUR 2.1 billion at the end of first half. When you have a look at the left side of the page.
You can see that our large scale product order backlog is very strong, with more than EUR 1 billion, followed by C&I with EUR 531 million, and Home Solutions with EUR 500 million. In Home and C&I, our ability to deliver has caught up the strong demand. As such, we start to see a normalization of product order backlog as expected, since the supply chain is getting closer to the market demand. With this, let's turn to our last page, our guidance for 2023. As communicated on June 23rd, we once again raised our 2023 full year guidance for sales and EBITDA. This is based on our strong Q1 performance and a significant increase in delivery capabilities, due to faster improvements in the supply situation and an improved earnings contribution from all three segments.
Against this backdrop, we published an adjusted 2023 guidance, with sales of EUR 1.7 billion-EUR 1.85 billion and EBITDA of EUR 230 million-EUR 270 million, which we can confirm today. For the second half of the year, further sales growth will offset for higher costs related to build up of our organization for future growth and for changes in the product mix. As such, we are convinced to deliver on the high profitability margin in our guidance. SMA is truly sustainable and a solid finance company. Resilience in a volatile market is the key, and we believe in our resilience. Why? First of all, financially, SMA is equipped with both a healthy capital structure and a credit facility of EUR 380 million, which we have access to if needed.
Second, the brand of SMA is well known in all relevant markets. We have a solid positioning in the largest global developed markets, like U.S. and Europe. We have a strong presence in all three key segments. This brings us to third. This broader solution portfolio in all segments is an advantage compared to those with significantly narrower portfolio offerings, as it has become evident to the market recently. Our product stand for high quality, durability, and reliability. With our strategy of doubling our manufacturing capacities by 2025, we enhance our flexibility and expand our offerings in the coming years. In addition, we are able to cover all business dynamics given to our strong global customer base in both the distribution business and with EPCs. With the view to all SMA segments now contributing positive bottom lines, this will play out strongly for SMA.
The drivers for demand have evolved, the biggest push now comes mainly from the society, and it's more independent from political agenda than it was in the past. At last, but not at least, SMA is truly sustainable company, which is reflected in our outstanding ESG ratings. Sustainability has been incurred in our corporate mission since SMA has been founded. Our state-of-the-art production in Germany is already CO2-neutral, we are a major contributor in the energy transition-- transformation. All this together is more important than ever to defend our value proposition, particularly in uncertain economic times, as it is currently the case. This is why we believe in SMA's resilience. With this, I conclude my presentation, I'm happy to take your questions.
Our first question comes from the line of Guido Hoymann with Metzler. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good morning, Silke. Two questions then from my side. The first one would be on the order intake. Obviously, it has been down when comparing it with the previous three or four quarters. How do you see this, yeah, development? Is it a new trend? Do you see a slowdown in demand? Any explanation on that would be welcome. The second question is on the US Market. Where are you-- your thoughts on the U.S. Market and the IRA requirements and local content? Are there any conclusions you would like to share with us on that market?
Thank you very much, Mr. Hoymann, for this very important questions. Yeah, why is Q2 vs. Q1 order intake weaker with or lower? Order intake has corrected itself since Q2 and will normalize over the coming months, which was fully expected by us because we ask our customers to place orders, especially in Home and C&I business, for 2023 until end of March, so that we can look into the supplies and that we can steer our production capacities accordingly. We see an increase of stocks on the distributors and installers side, but this has not been caused by a structural decline in demand, because it is absolutely normal development after continued supply constraints, combined with increasing demand, which resulted in customer overstocking. All this was fully in line with our expectations.
Our order backlog still remains on a very high level of EUR 2.5 billion, and therefore it covers our sales guidance, which we have given for 2020-2023 and beyond. Only to remind you and everybody in the line, in the times before the supply crisis came, Home and C&I had an average order backlog level, which covered around about three months. Currently, we are covering six to eight months, and Large Scale business in the past had a order backlog covering six months. Now we are talking about more than 12 months sales, which is covered by our order backlog. This all means that in general, the development in our order intake is still in line with our expectation and is still in line to reach our guidance for 2023 and also beyond. Does this answer your question concerning order intake?
Yeah. Can you maybe also give an indication how July and August developed, or is that something you share with the market at this point of time?
It's currently too early to give a clear answer.
Sure.
For our sales expectations, we are absolutely in line with our guidance, and therefore, also, we see that especially in the second half of the year, end of the second half of the year, in autumn time, the orders will also increase again when customers in C&I and Home business will start their orders placing for 2024. For Large Scale, we already see continuously order income also ready for this and also for next year. In Large Scale, we nearly booked out already for next financial year.
Okay. All right. Thank you. On the U.S.?
Coming to your question concerning IRA.
Mm-hmm.
First of all, it's a complex topic, and we are still investigating what is best for us. The decision will take into consideration, such as contract manufacturing, collaboration with manufacturing partners, or establishing an own dedicated manufacturing facility in the U.S.. There is no disclosure currently, so we are still investigating, and we take our time. We take our time until we have really a clear picture, and there isn't a clear picture currently seen. It's nothing which we are postponing, it's something which we are really investigating and calculating seriously.
Work in progress, so, so to say.
Yeah. Work in progress.
Okay.
Right.
All right. Thank you. Very clear. Thanks a lot.
Yeah. Thank you.
The next question comes from the line of Konstantin Hesse with Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Hi, there. Thank you very much for taking my questions. I would like to just quickly follow up on the order momentum. As I understood it correctly, you expect order intake to pick up again in Home and C&I on the back of orders being placed towards... and so basically in autumn time. Fair to assume that the EUR 31 million we saw in Home and the EUR 49 million in C&I, you, you're obviously expecting that to pick up again to, to higher levels. Maybe a little bit of a word on Large Scale, if you could share here as well. It came down, but it's still at very elevated levels at EUR 300 million. If we look at the momentum over the coming quarters that you're seeing.
Obviously, you were seeing an improvement in home and C&I, but, you know, how are you seeing large scale continue to develop at this point? Let's put it this way: do you expect the order backlog to have peaked at this point, or do you expect the order backlog to continue going up?
Yeah, thank you, Constantin Hesse, for this question. First of all, as you already repeated correctly, for home and C&I, it is clear that after asking our customers to, to book the order intake and also to confirm order intake until March, there is a season now of low order intakes, which we have already expected. From August, from September, October onwards, they will start the new orders for next financial year because they have also to calculate and also to steer their capacities for next year. It's clear that we are then, will see increasing order intake from home and C&I again.
For Large Scale, we have still a very positive development, as also our Q2 order intake was more or less in line with our Q1 order intake in 2023, and we are currently sitting on an order backlog of EUR 1 billion. We are already booked. We have already booked very huge and very important project, but additionally, we are also discussing and also booking frame orders and, and frame projects, which are not reflected in our order intake, but which will also drive our sustainable growth part for the Large Scale business for the next year. There is no, no downturn in demand. There are only maybe some postponements, but also order intake will increase in Large Scale. The average staying on a high level, and they will also increase at the end of the year, again, more steadily.
Fair to say that this order backlog decline is a temporary hiccup, and you don't see orders peaking at this point. You do expect order backlog to tick up again?
We absolutely see order backlog to come back again from home and C&I, but we also see that there is a kind of normalization in the lead times. As I already said, before crisis, order backlog covered 3 months of home and C&I business. Currently, it covers six to eight months, there will be no need to order so much time in advance in the future if we are able to supply on a steadily and on a very reliable level. Order backlog compared to sales will be more on a normalized level also for the future. It will be something between 6 and 3 months, but we expect that it will absolutely increase again for next financial year because orders will flow in in autumn time for this segment.
That's great. Thank you. I just have two, two more, if I may. Really quick ones. One is the profitability levels you achieved in Large Scale and C&I. 5% in Q2 in Large Scale and 7% in C&I in Q2. Are these the levels that we should be thinking of going forward, or do you still expect an improvement from this level? That's the first question. The second question is, if you have an in-house view that you could share concerning the, the announcement that was made yesterday in Germany concerning the subsidy package. Thank you.
Concerning profitability, first of all, we are happy that both segments are back in black earlier than planned. I already announced that we are reaching this target end of the year, but now they are earlier back. That is a very, very good development, and this also shows that our decision and our strategy to stay in three different segments is still valuable, and it is still in line with our strategy. 5%-7% is not the overall margin which we are expecting for the whole next financial year and for the whole group. We are still stick on our targets to show and to receive an EBIT margin, two-digit positive. Also C&I and Large Scale have to contribute to this development. Will they be able to the achieve this directly in next financial year?
This is too early to, to pronounce or too early now to say. We are investigating now in our budget planning process, what is the possible targets we are setting for them? It's for sure that our overall profitability for next financial year, EBIT-wise, is set and targeted with two-digit positive EBIT margin, and therefore, Large Scale and C&I has to get, give their positive contribution to this. Coming to your question concerning the announcement yesterday, it is currently not so easy for us to give a complete answer. Yesterday, the German cabinet approved the draft 2024 economic plan for the Climate and Transformation Fund by circulation. The largest item, EUR 18.8 billion, is the building subsidy, followed by the financing of the EEG levy in the amount of EUR 12.6 million.
What is our takeaway? Currently, it's very early to give a complete answer. We are still investigating what does it mean for us, but clear is that the electrification of the Power-to-Gas, heat, and mobility sector is moving forward. SMA solutions fit absolutely into the sector, and also our strategic development from a pure hardware production company, from a pure inverter company, more to a solution provider, also including this different aspect and different segments, is absolutely on the right way. The sector is happy about the long-term hedging of the EEG level to secure the solar expansion scenario until 2030. These are our first takeaways, but we will absolutely investigate this more in detail in the next days and weeks.
Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
The next question comes from the line of Lasse Stubbe with Berenberg. Please go ahead.
Hi. Hi, good afternoon. I just wanted to come back to the improvement in profitability on Large Scale, sort of sequentially in Q2 versus Q1. Can you just clarify again what drove that? Because your revenues were up, I think, EUR 10 million on the quarter. It'd just be good to hear sort of what's driving the big, large improvement. And then the second question would be on pricing, if you could give some, some color on how pricing is developing, because it seems like, you know, there seems to be ample supply in the market currently. I'm just wondering if that has an implication for pricing. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Stubbe, for your questions. First of all, concerning profitability in our Large Scale business, fact is that in our Large Scale business, each and every project is calculated individually. Therefore, we currently see that we have positive impact from price development, and absolutely see that stability, sustainability, and possibility to deliver are more important in this Large Scale business than the question of final and detailed pricing. Price is an issue everywhere, for sure, but the availability and to be stable and to be reliable is more important in the whole Large Scale business than in the other ones. This is one aspect. Additionally, we continued our productivity gains and especially the utilization in our production capacity.
That means that our fixed cost degression also, also had a positive impact in addition to the improved project pricing. I think these are the most important aspects concerning Large Scale, and we also are very convinced that the positive margin development and the positive profitability development in the last Large Scale business will also continue over the next months. As I said, delivery, performance, reliability are the more important factors in driving this business, also more important in additionally to volume and production utilization. Coming to your second question concerning pricing, currently, price decrease is not a topic for us. Of course, we are aware of the high price pressure on modules, but based on our past experiences, this has not such a significant impact on the inverter prices.
Here, you have to keep in mind that our solutions normally represent a small amount of the overall cost of a project for the end user. In addition, the system approach also makes us more resilient against price changes. This also means that with our development from a pure inverter producer to a solution provider consisting of inverter, storage, data management, EV charging, our strategy is absolutely on the right way. Additionally, we are present in three segments. We are diverse and diversed globally, this development also gives us more resilience compared short-term price erosion, which can may be seen in other segments.
Okay, thank you.
You're welcome.
The next question comes from the line of Jeffrey Osborne with TD Cowen. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you. Just maybe following up on the pricing question, I was curious if the new bookings that you're adding to the backlog during the quarter are consistent, you know, margin profile. Then, I recognize Barbara, that you had referenced, you know, selling a solution, which certainly was on display at Intersolar. I'm just curious your perspective on sort of what type of price premium you can capture versus some of the leading Asian vendors that are being a bit more aggressive in the past few months.
Thank you, Jeff, for this question. We have also discussed this very intensively with ourselves and segment responsibles in the last days and weeks. I can only repeat, currently, price decrease is not a topic. We do not see the price decrease currently. When we will start the new negotiation for next financial year, yes, there will be maybe some impacts. We are still very confident that we are more resilient. We have a lot of positive aspects in our brand, in our quality, in our possibility to deliver a solution which gives us more resilience to a pure price pressure coming from modules or coming from the pure inverter market. This is absolutely what is in line with our strategy.
We are with our brand, it's a high price, and customers still are buying us and buying our products because of quality, reliability, and also because of the possibility to combine this with all these other aspects like storage and data management. This is also what we see currently when it comes to the discussion, are we more resilient than in the past? We're absolutely convinced that we are more resilient. From the time being, so currently, the price decrease is not a topic for us.
Got it. That's helpful. Then maybe just two other quick ones. On the distributor side, some of your leading customers in Europe, what are, what are you seeing in terms of distress, given the, the high cost inventory that they're holding of modules, given the prices come down? Is that an issue as they try to work down inventory and minimize the number of suppliers that they're dealing with?
What we see and what we expect is when prices come down on modules, a whole project gets cheaper. As we are only delivering a smaller part of the whole project, be it at a C&I home or large scale business, if prices also decrease significantly on the modules, we have the positive impact that our prices are stable because our smaller amount of costs to the total project does not make sense, and also then the whole project are getting cheaper. Therefore, for distributors and customers, we do not see that decreasing module prices will decrease demand. We will see that the whole package will get cheaper for the customer, and therefore, there could be positive impact.
Yes, we're getting orders still currently on the current price level, and when we see currently that distributors or customers are sitting on high stocks and want to postpone maybe something to next year, we are also still able to save the current price level. Prices are then, currently, in our view, still stable for our products and solutions.
That's great to hear. Just a housekeeping question. I was wondering if you could share with us what the towing and storage revenue was for the quarter, and then any preliminary outlook on CapEx needs for next year, given the credit agreement that you put in place. I would imagine that you want to prepare for future growth and maybe give us some, some insights on how much that might cost you.
I think I did not get the question correctly. Can you repeat it again, please?
Sure. I was asking on the towing and storage % of revenue for the second quarter would be helpful to have. Given the credit agreement that you have put in place this quarter with the expansion, I'm curious what your CapEx needs might be for doubling that capacity there in Germany and potentially in the U.S.. Like, what kind of CapEx figure we should be modeling for cash needs for that for next year?
Currently, and also for the next years, all our CapEx will be financed out of our internal gained free cash flow. This new line, this new line is only to financing net working capital volatility if necessary. In our CapEx estimation, we estimated for this financial year around about EUR 85 million-EUR 90 million, where we have spent already the half of it, roundabout, in the first half of the year. For next, it will be also near, more or less in this level. EUR 80 million-EUR 90 million, maximum EUR 100 million CapEx, including also R&D. This is currently all financed out of our own free cash flow, so no additional loans or no additional funding is necessary for this. This new revolving credit line is only to finance net working capital volatility when needed.
Currently, we also do not have the need to take something out of this, as our cash position is still stable and decreased again end of first half of the year. Therefore, there is no need at currently to use the net working capital credit facility. For the next year, also by financing the facility improvement and investments here in Kassel, it's all financed out of our cash flow. What would be needed if we then also starting or investigating to invest in the U.S. market, this is still under evaluation. I cannot give you figures, but clear is that the market, the banks, and the one who give us external loans are absolutely convinced about our strategy.
to get money out of the financing market, we currently see only positive signals from the market. When we are at the right point to say what we need for investing in the US, then we will start negotiating on external loans, and we're absolutely convinced, as it was a very good and positive success to negotiate the net working capital line, we are absolutely convinced that also getting long-term loans and long-term in financing for additional investment abroad, would be possible for us on very good and positive conditions and results.
Do you happen to have that tolling and storage revenue by chance for the second quarter? No, that was my last question.
I'm not sure if we have this. I, I do not have it under my eyes. Sorry. Maybe we can-
No problem.
give it to you later.
Great. Thank you.
You're welcome, Jeff.
The next question comes from the line of Sebastian Growe with BNP Paribas Exane. Please go ahead.
Thanks. Good afternoon, everybody. Hi, it's Gregor. The first one is, and sorry for coming back to the order point, but just more on a sort of general and high level, I would be interested in you commenting on the sales growth and volume and price discussions with your distribution partners. This is mostly related then to Home Solutions and C&I. I guess the question is really, if you can frame how these discussions typically unfold, so to what extent is the pricing then fixed? Are the index clauses included? That we just get a better understanding of your sort of visibility on the pricing side, looking into 2024. That would be the first one.
Yeah. Currently, our, our order backlog is covering our self-guidance, as already said, under the pricing level, which we had booked in end of, end of Q1 this financial year, and also for large scale project by project. The order backlog is all covered on the current price level. I didn't catch the second part of your question.
My understanding is simply that we have obviously, at least from the marketplace perspective, I heard your comments around, that you can still sign contracts at similar prices as you have established those thus far, which I think was more comment related to the LSPS segment. I do get the point around the more positive project margins, if and when module pricing is coming down. I think for what is the more sort of trading-oriented businesses, if I may put it this way, the Home Solutions, and then also the Commercial and Industrial business, which is indeed a distributor, wholesaler business, there I would assume the pricing is, generally speaking, more volatile. If what Constantin asked before, your pricing discussions are starting in autumn, and we have a market price which is down by 20%-30% year to date.
I'm not talking your price, not the SMA price so far, but there must be some reference, I believe, to the market price. My question is simply, how different these price negotiations for what then will be 2024 might look like compared to what has been established during 2023?
Yeah. Okay. First of all, we are currently signing our contract at similar prices. To be more precise, also, also in Large Scale, we were able to get on a better price level because we changed a little bit our pricing strategy. This means that, especially in the Large Scale market, which is driving our profitability and also our growth strategy, pricing is currently not an issue. It's more about sustainability and the performance to deliver. On the module price development, that drives down a total project price for our customers. That means that currently, if module prices are decreasing and the inverter is only 10% or 20% of the whole project price, then the prices for the whole project are decreasing, and this gives the possibility for us to stay our prices on a stable base.
This should make projects financially more efficient and supporting also our volume growth. This is exactly what we see currently in the Large Scale business, where module prices are decreasing, the projects in total getting cheaper and driving then our growth strategy. There will be some pressure towards price end of the year. This is for sure, but Large Scale is not even next year. We are absolutely booked out, and due to the solution offers, we will keep any reduction as low as possible, and we are not commodity. As I said already before, by our strategy to changing from a pure inverter to a solution provider, this gives us more resilience also in the price development, and we are not serving the commodity market as others do.
That I do get, obviously, there is some reasons why there are so many questions asked around pricing. The situation in 2023 is as such that Home Solutions is carrying a phenomenal margin of 25%-30% EBITDA. It's contributing about three quarters to group EBITDA, three quarters. Now there's a very high likelihood, I believe, that in 2024 there will be a material mix shift and much higher contribution from LSPS, and I see all the points that you raised around LSPS improvement potential also for the margin. Still, that's the reason why so many questions are asked around the pricing, especially for the Home Solutions. Home Solutions is a key earnings driver this year, if there was a material decline in pricing, then that would have also a material impact on the group profitability going forward.
That's, I think, the reason, and for that reason, I was just asking if you could help us better understand to what extent you can sort of be protected to these price discussions when it comes to especially the Home Solutions and C&I. Let's leave LSPS aside.
Yeah, I understand your question. What you have always said is that for the first quarter and the first whole half of the year, we had a special situation where Home Solutions was able to deliver earlier than the other segments. Now C&I and also, also Large Scale are increasing significantly their sales volume, they're also contributing positively EBIT due to the current sales growth. High, that does mean that on the other hand, our sales, Home Sales, Home Solutions business is still profitable for this year now, and not only since 10, 2022, and 2023. This will also be positive contribute for the next years, but the shift in the mix will also mean that by increasing C&I and Large Scale business, they will also contribute positively.
By our investment in our additional capacities here at Kassel, we are increasing our capacity from 20 to 40 gigawatts. This is mainly driven to the fact that for the Large Scale business, we see the growth market and growth strategy in, in mainly in North America, where we currently see that our projects are running with a very well profitability and with a very well situation, also compared to others and also compared to our segments. We are still fine with our decision, and we are absolutely clear that with our 3 segments, we are more resilient. There will be a mix shift in the next year, that the dominant character of Home in the sales revenue will be lower, but as we are increasing volumes, costs, this cost fixed cost regression will also be seen due to capacity utilization in Large Scale and C&I.
The new mixed segment and the new mixed revenue will then also be very profitable compared to this financial year.
Okay, that is truly helpful. Thank you for all the color. Two very, very quick questions. The first one is as simple as known. You said two-digit margin in 2024. It is EBITDA, or is it EBIT?
Yeah, I already said in, I think in May, that our target for next financial year, 2024, two-digit positive is EBITDA. We are also targeting two-digit positive for EBIT for the whole group. It is for the whole group, and then we will have a mixture in between. As I said already, Home Solutions is already in this, in this frame, but C&I and also Large Scale are getting more and more profitable and are on the right track also to contribute. two-digit positive is meant for EBIT for next financial year for the group in total.
Okay, that is good. Then the very last one, because on one of the slides, you signal that there has been a special income of EUR 5 million from cancellation. A, I would be interested in hearing what segment that refers to, and on a more general note, can you also give us a sense how these fees are calculated? Is this sort of a lost profit contribution from a given contract, or how should we think about this?
It was from Large Scale, where we had a cancellation. We have very different contracts, frames from each to other project. We have normally conditions that if project canceled at a large, at a large point, there is a percentage based on the total project volume to be paid. Therefore, this was out of a cancellation in the Large Scale business.
Okay, perfect. Thank you very much for this.
You're welcome.
We have a follow-up question coming from the line of Mr. Hesse with Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Hi. Sorry, I was muted. Sorry. I know we're already over the 60 minutes. I just have very quickly two questions. One, you referenced, so you were talking about the potential targets for the C&I and Large Scale that you're currently reviewing. Do you believe today, is there any chance that both these businesses could actually become two-digit EBIT margin businesses? Is that, is that realistic? That's the first question, and the second question: Is there any holdback still from the lack of electronic components in the second half? You know, should we continue seeing utilization running up in the second half? Thanks.
Ye ah, first of all, it's not only a question about what is realistic, it's a question about what is our target. If we take into consideration that each of our business also covers capital employed, covers net working capital, we have to set our target ambitiously. The ambition is that for the future, every of our three segments have to gain two-digit positive EBIT margin, otherwise, they are not contributing positively to the added value of the group. Can they achieve this all already in 2024? No, but we are on the right track. We set the overall global target for the whole group. Home is already there.
We see that Large Scale and C&I will follow, but not immediately, directly in next financial year, but the target for each of the three segments is to gain a positive, two-digit positive EBIT margin for the future.
Interesting. Thank you.
Okay, and your second question was concerning the, there are still some holdbacks, and therefore, we consider a realistic base on a high sales volume, but we are getting continuously less holdbacks.
Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
The last question is a follow-up from Martin Wilkie, BNP Paribas Exane. Please go ahead.
I'm sorry for this, when there is obviously room for any another question, we're doing this. Sorry, again, to circle back to the visibility going into 2024. When it comes to the distributor and wholesaler level, is there sort of any kind of general framework-based volume agreements? Then it's depending on how much of this is gonna be sort of called off, or what is simply the visibility argument or visibility as such going into 2024? Could there be a situation that it is kind of the best of all worlds in 2023, and we really see also a decline in volumes in this particular part of the business? I see all the visibility arguments around LSPS, since we, I'm, I'm more nervous about the Home Solutions and C&I. Thank you.
If we talk about frame agreements, we mainly talk about large-scale business. There we have long projects, there we have very, very huge customers, and in the large frames agreement, they also include penalties if the agreed volumes are not called up. The % of penalties and the amount of penalties normally depends on at what stage of the frame contract the volumes are called up. Therefore, and therefore, this is very different from the different point where cancellation and calls up gain, and it's also very different from the different negotiation product, project frames. Our customer also need to deliver on their project. As such, it is normally not in their interest to pull out of these agreements.
Because this is also in line also with their whole value chain, and therefore it's only an exception, and it's not normal business way that we are faced to the, faced to this.
Okay, if I may phrase them a bit differently, you would be comfortable to the extent you want to comment on this one, comfortable with having at least a flat volume into 2024 when it comes to these Home Solutions and C&I activities?
I'm comfortable with our target to increase our overall sales by 20%. This is what I also said, a few weeks or few months, before. Our growth expectation and our target is to increase our overall sales volume by 20% for next financial year. We are still investigating on our budget process, what does it mean for the different segments? What does it mean for the different projects and products? In general, as we increase, increasing our portfolio also by batteries, also more and more, hybrid inverter, large-scale business is increasing significantly. Therefore, in the mixed picture, I can confirm that our growth strategy and growth target for next financial year is, to grow by 20% sales wise.
Okay, that's perfect. Thank you very, very much.
You're welcome.
There are no further questions at this time. I hand back to Barbara Gregor for closing comments.
Yeah, thank you very much for all participants and also for your interest, and please do not hesitate to contact us in case of any further questions. Thank you and auf Wiedersehen.