Good morning and good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to today's SAP Conference Call. Following the opening comments, an interactive Q and A session will be available. I would now like to turn the conference over to Stephane Rubert, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you very much. Good morning or good afternoon. I'm here together with my Media Relations colleague, Christoph Lietje. Thank you for joining this press and analyst call today on such short notice with our Co CEOs Bill McDermott and Jim Hage Mansnade to briefly discuss our plans to acquire Hybris, a widely recognized leader in e commerce technology, which we announced a few hours ago. We're also joined by Ariel Ludy, CEO of Hybris as well as Carsten Tommer, President and Co Founder of Hybris.
This call is scheduled for around 30 minutes and we'll start with brief remarks by the SAP Co CEOs followed by Ariel Luddy from Hybris about the significance and rationale of this acquisition and then we'll open it up to your questions. Before we begin the call, I will read a few preliminary legal notices. Any statements made during this call that are not historical facts are forward looking statements. Our forward looking statements are subject to various various risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations expressed in SEP's press release or on this call, including risks and uncertainties concerning the party's ability to close the transaction and the expected closing date of the transaction, the anticipated benefits and synergies of the proposed transaction, anticipated future combined operations, products and services and the anticipated role of the company to be acquired, its key executives and its employees within SAP following the closing of the transaction. Other factors that could affect SAP's future financial results are discussed more fully in our most recent filings with the U.
S. Securities and Exchange Commission, including SEP's Annual Report on Form 20F or 2012 filed with the SEC on March 22, 2013. Participants of this call are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward looking statements, which speak only as of their date. SAP undertakes no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward looking statements. Before turning it over to our speakers, let me say again that we'll be keeping the call to about 30 minutes.
Please also note that financial terms of the deal are not being disclosed. And let me now turn the call over to Jim.
Jim might be on mute, Stefan.
Jim, please go ahead.
Would you like me to start, Stefan?
Maybe then we start with you, Bill. Just go ahead.
Yes. Okay. Jim is on a cell phone in China. He might have gotten disconnected. So first of all, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us.
This is Bill McDermott, Co CEO of SAP and Jim will join me in a minute. I'd like to just keep my remarks to the point. This is the defining step in SAP's evolution to a business to business to consumer company. We've signaled this all along. We are now in a partnership with Hybris and we fully intend to unleash the will of SAP on the CRM marketplace.
No competitor comes even remotely close to the flexibility and the power of Hybris. And when you power that by SAP HANA, it is truly a game changer putting enterprises in real time with their consumers and that's what we wanted. Our CEOs today, they're working very hard to enable a 3 60 degree customer relationship and leverage its sales, services, marketing and e commerce across all channels. And this has to be done with intimacy because today's digital consumer will not tolerate anything less. Now with Hybris, SAP has everything that a CEO needs to run corporation with consumer.
And best of all, again, I stress it's on the hot platform. Just think about what the industry we can serve and just think about this retail, consumer product, health media, financial services now having a true digital relationship with their consumer in every single channel where they can make precision retailing, real time offers, loyalty offers all on the fly. So this is a huge, huge day for Hybris and also SAP, but most importantly, it's for our customers. And incidentally, the CEOs that I've been talking to realize clearly that real time customer engagement across all channels is essential and that's also what they're investing in. And for those of you that probably already know this, I don't want to be repetitive, but I think you and all the CEOs I talk to already get enough emails and they put them directly into the trash folder.
So some of the moves that we saw others make are quite puzzling. And finally, I'd just like to conclude that we think this is a beautiful way to scale SAP. If you think about our 12,000 partner network, you think about our 240,000 customers in 25 industries, 80 plus percent of the global Fortune 500 running SAP and 98% of the most valuable brands in the world are now going to get to take full advantage of something we really needed to deliver for them, which is this full e commerce platform. And I'm sure Ariel will go into more detail on that. But I think it's just unbelievable that we have this end to end solution for our customers.
No competitor has it and wait till you see this thing running on SAP HANA. We're talking game changer and we're here to take over CRM marketplace.
Bill, I'm on the call again. Jim here.
Okay, Jim. I don't know how much of that you heard, but I basically took them through our competitive positioning as the B2B2C, also the real time across all channels with a high risk on an e commerce basis running on the HANA platform. And just that we're asserting our will fully in the CRM marketplace.
Well, I got it, Bill. I was kicked out. I'm in China, everyone. So again, thanks for joining this. Now maybe just a couple of comments from me.
Being in China, it is very clear. I'm at the Global Forum here in Chengdu and that China will move to an e commerce base of interacting with consumers. Nothing else is possible And if you just take that opportunity into your mind, imagine the leading e commerce platform of hybrid combined with our mobile technology, our cloud capability and as Phil mentioned, the HANA capability, so we can predict demands, we can make trade promotions that matter for the individual consumer. And of course, upsell make the upsell opportunity much more relevant for consumers. Imagine that happening alone in one market where we are the global leader in China.
You bring that to the rest of the world. That's the opportunity we have at hand. This is not about the e mail world of CRM. This is about the real time interaction with consumers in billions and volume. So with that, I would hand over to our friends at Hybris and ask maybe for their comments, if you're okay with that.
Ariel? Thanks, Jim. Thanks, Bill. This is Ariel. Thanks, everybody, for joining the call.
Just a little bit of history. When we founded Hybris 15 years ago, we had the simple mission to be a great commerce technology company and we stayed through the course. We gave nothing else but wanting to evolve with this market and help shape this market. And what we have seen over the past few years is that the complexity increased tremendously and companies were looking for solutions to address this complexity, especially in the last 3, 4 years with so many channels popping up, new standards, huge data volumes, personalization, order management, product information and so on. So it became more and more complex and we had the chance and Deluxe to be always ahead of the curve and actually provide the right solution for our 500 customers.
We actually addressed 3 areas where we evolved in 3 markets. Looking at CRM, old fashioned CRM what you see right now in the market is batch oriented, it's offline solutions that actually automate or has nothing to do with the customer really, they're automating internal people who are customer facing. This is old style. The new style of CRM is all about making real time split decisions and actually supporting that direct customer process as the processes were SAP's customer actually create money with their consumers or business partners. And that's where we actually expand the solution, the stack of SAP.
So CRM is evolving dramatically. Just having a new channel like e mail doesn't really help. You have to be present in all the different touch points, mobile, online tablets, call centers and all the new devices that are popping up, but also offline touch points like in store. The second part is there's a new way we all are being used to a new customer experience being consumers ourselves. And customer experience for many vendors is being addressed in a very limited fashion.
They're talking about pretty pictures online or a search experience or navigation experience on the web. That's not what customer experience is all about. Customer experience is a huge process. You have to have a solution end to end crossing all the channels and all the stages of a customer lifecycle when they're researching for a product, during the transaction, during the delivery of the product and servicing the customer once they've purchased something. If the things work, then they have a good customer experience and not because they have pretty pictures on the website.
That's exactly what we provide. That's why we extended back our solution and added order management and product information management and supported all these different touch points. Lastly, omni channel as a new term is something that we all do and practice ourselves as consumers. And it's a technical term, but actually what people expect, you and I are expecting when you're interacting with the brand are 3 things. Very simple things, but they're hard to do.
1 is you would like to get the same information whatever channel you touch. So if you go on the mobile or on a tablet or add somebody in the store or call up the call center or go on the web, you should always get the same information about product, the product functionality, the pricing, the availability, the order status and so on. So always the same answer. If you don't get the same answer customers get confused and they don't purchase. Very simple request, but hard to do behind the scenes, easy to do with hybrid and SAP.
The second part is, if you start a dialogue with a brand in one channel, like you're walking to the street on a mobile phone, you see something, you make a search or put something in a basket and later on at night watching TV, you look at it in a tablet or maybe the day after you call somebody up, we would like to continue this dialogue without having to restart all the time and explaining every time again who you are and what you want. So continuing a dialogue independent where you started an interaction with the brand or retailer. And the last part is something also very reasonable for many consumers, the interactions of these different channels. People purchase channel independent. They don't care about that they ordered something online.
They would like to return it in the store maybe or they would order online and reserve in the store or go to the store and then order it for home shipping. And so now these interactions about delivery as well between these channels is a very simple request. But behind the scenes you need a lot of technology to do this. And that's exactly what High Risk can offer together with SAP offering this full stack end to end across the whole customer lifecycle. Now talking about implementation, thanks to our partner network and our ambitions and passions and commitment of our global team of hybrids, we have experienced a dramatic growth over the last number of years.
Today we have over 500 customers including top B2B sites like General Electric, Thomson Reuters, 3 ms, Procter and Gamble or consumer brands B2C like Toys R Us, P&G, Nikko and Costco and so on. So they are using hybrids most of the time across many countries, many markets, many business models and many touch points integrating tightly into the back end system. And we have many joint integration points are.
Let me give
you two examples. Also good examples about omni commerce customers. 1 is Grainger, a large MRO company that only do about €6,000,000,000 in the U. S. And they do about 30% online right now with hybrids.
It's an incredibly complex way of ordering or managing the data volumes. There's 6 terabyte of data. In B2B, every customer has a negotiated price with every product, so you can assume the complexity that you have to manage and SAP and hybrid is capable to do that. Or another nice brand is Nespresso. I'm Swiss, so I like Nespresso.
It's a part of Nestle. They are the biggest contributor of profit to Nestle for coffee. So there's about 200,000 to 300,000 orders a day. They're using Nestle boutiques. They have mobile phones.
They have tablets. They have stores. They have call centers. They have email campaigns. And all these things are being managed by hybrids and they fulfill these three things that I just mentioned before, get the same information in every channel all the time in real time.
You can continue a dialogue if you hop a channel and you can switch toward and return and reserve this product independent on which channel you actually currently like. And there are many other joint customers where we actually like a proof of concept that we fit very well together like a Metro Group or Levi's or Bridgestone or DHL or Colgate Palmolus. And the integration points are sometimes in CRM or into the base business suite or in the analytics on the BI. So after this growth and these experiences together as well with SAP as a partner initially to get to know each other actually, Today we take the next step. And in SAP we have found a partner who shared our vision for the future of commerce and they recognized that intelligence, immediacy and insight are the hallmark of the 21st Century business.
And to remain relevant and competitive in today's market, businesses must unify the customer experience across all areas of channels, devices and touch points. By combining SAP's powerful enterprise applications with hybrid's agile commerce and data management solution, we believe we truly have the potential to powerfully energize and change the market and realize our vision of becoming the world's number 1 omni commerce solution. Bill, Jim and the entire SAP team share our vision and our drive to create technologies, products and innovations that will enable new levels of customer intimacy, insight, engagement across every brand touchpoint. As an independent business unit, which was important for us, within SAP we will play a decisive and influential role in enabling the commercial evolution with the additional resources, reach and scale of the world's fastest growing database and enterprise software company. SAP shares our commitment to customers, understands the complexities of the enterprise and provides us with the platform to dramatically accelerate our growth, expand our global footprint by providing the solutions that will power the 21st century's largest, most complex omni commerce enterprises.
We are really looking forward to the opportunities ahead. Thank you.
Thank you, Ariane. Thank you, Ariane. Thank you, Ariane.
I would now like to hand it back to the moderator to open the Q and A session.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now conduct a question and answer Your first question will come from the line of Chris Bryant of the Financial Times. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, gentlemen. Three quick questions, if I may. Firstly, on price, I wondered if you could give us just a broad hint, please. Clearly, with hybrids having revenues of about $100,000,000 I can't imagine that SAP got much changed from $1,000,000,000 So perhaps you could give me a hint if I'm in the right direction on that. Second question, please.
Gartner had a quite recent report saying SAP had fallen behind salesforce.com in CRM last year and wasn't growing fast enough. Should we interpret this acquisition as SAP's response to that? And third question please, why does this take so long? I mean you've been SAP has been rumored for a long time as a potential equiditor and yet there was this funding round in March.
I would have thought that would
have been the right moment for SAP to buy. Thank you.
Maybe I could just start out. This is Bill McDermott. How are you, Chris? A couple of things. One is on the price.
We paid a fair price for the company. We're not disclosing what it was, but it's consistent with other high growth assets. And keep in mind, this is the fastest growing asset in the category by a lot. For example, other ones that were growing at 20%, which would be alternatives such as email companies went for half the price. So think about the multiples consistent with a high growth company and one that we can scale across the world.
In terms of Gartner's remarks on CRM, it's absolutely clear to us that the real time enterprise and the end to end business to business to consumer across all channels leveraging the power of SAP HANA is the winning formula. It is the most modern architecture in the world. And this is the piece that we had to have to complete the puzzle. And that's why we're so proud to have hybrids. And you're right, we are going to totally unleash our will like never before on the CRM marketplace and the competitors that decide to go against us.
This is going to be good fun. And then finally, I would just say in terms of taking so long, I think what you have to recognize in this case is the quality of Ariel and Carson and their great company. We wanted to make sure that it was right culturally that we had all the dynamics of the go to market, the innovation and how we would manage the company clearly thought through before we decided to go. And when we decided to go, we are friends and we are close and we want to rock the market together. So the timing couldn't have been more perfect.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Let's take the next question please. Your next question will come from the line of Ross MacMillan of Jefferies. Please go
ahead. Thanks a lot.
Congratulations on the deal. So two questions. Number 1, the product set with Hybris is mostly I think an omnichannelecommerce product and it's going to be run as a standalone entity. But it strikes me that the real advantage here would be in close integration with SEP's core CRM solution over time. Can you just talk about how you plan to think about integrating the products as we move forward?
Thanks.
I guess, Jim, you want to come back?
Yes. Maybe I can start and then I would suggest that we get some input as well from hybrids. Clearly, our value proposition is the integration. We don't believe in stand alone pieces where the customer has the pain of the integration. Now But we'll go much, much further.
First of all, the products are already integrated at 150 customers around the world. So we know how to do this. We've done it. And I believe Hybris has done an effort to even standardize that integration. So you're spot on.
But we want to go much further than that. That's why I said in my remarks, imagine when you put our mobile platform and our mobile apps into the mix where we have one commerce channel where we have loyalty type interactions with consumers. You add our cloud today a lot of the hybrid businesses on premise because the customers really want to control their own destiny and their own e commerce. You put that into the HANA Enterprise Cloud, you certainly take radical reduction of cost and simplify the consumption of this technology. And of course, HANA, you put this on HANA, you realize how this enormous amount of data with the interaction points of consumers can be leveraged to be more relevant to individual consumers.
And with that create massive growth opportunities for the customers using this technology. So we're doing more than integrating. We're trying to give hybrids all of the leading technologies that we already have. And that is a combination no one else has in the market today. No one else has HANA for instance.
Ariel or Carsten, do you want to comment any further?
Yes. Just wanted to add that being a multichannel solution obviously we can add value in many different ways. But hybrid is never being used in isolation at the customer side, so it makes no sense to have them in isolation within SAP. So all these examples I gave you, a commerce platform has an incredible deep integration layer to many back office systems. And for instance, Nespresso is a very deep integration into SAP CRM where the 20 or a 1000000 loyalty customers of the Nespresso Club are being managed and we access them in real time to provide an incredibly great customer experience and all the touch points, which are hybrid space, which is mobile, call center, the web and in store as well.
Okay. Thank you. Let's take the next question please.
Your next question will come from the line of Cornelius Ron of Bloomberg. Please go ahead.
Thanks very much, Nikolas. Just one question. I mean, one is relating to you made this deal I think even like almost a month ago or 2 weeks ago. Just what held that back? Was that legal issues?
What's the deal there? And second question maybe it's a bit more detail on you say you want to bring mostly SAP technology and integrate it into what HIBORIS is already offering. Can you say what the effect could be on the relationship on the competition with Salesforce? Do you think you can claim the tough spot back this year or next year? Can you say something like that?
Thanks. Maybe I can Congrats, Jim. Why don't you start? No, no, please.
Okay. So first of all, we move quite fast these days. And of course, our due diligence as a global business leader in enterprise software is a thorough process. And I think we've done exactly what we need to do as a company and found this that hybrids is an extremely well run company, and we feel good on all dimensions. So we just have to go through that process.
Now coming to the competitive situation, you kind of begin to see a pattern here a little bit like we saw with our other competitor. There's either the strategy where you consolidate the past and that's about sales force automation and it's about sending e mails out in marketing. Or you define the future, which is about individualized consumerization, the change of the experience for the consumer, understanding each individual consumer's individual requirements and be able to analyze, predict and upsell, that's where we are going. And so in many ways, you could say this is not about a catch up. This is about defining the next generation CRM.
And it's not about email, I can assure you. Phil, you want to comment?
Jimmy, you said it perfectly. And I would just simply add that if you go into the boardrooms of well run companies today, the top of the CEO agenda begins with the customer, it always has. It doesn't begin with sales department having their seats organized on an SFA application. It doesn't begin with sending out email blast and going some hit rate on emails, especially since we'll delete them anyway. What it really touches on is this intimacy effect with the customer.
So here's the deal. If you go to a big company, a midsize or a small company CEO, they all got the same thing on their mind. How do I go direct to my consumer? If I can increase my sales direct to consumer, if I can take the friction points out of that customer they have the same personless, beautiful customer experience with me as if I had a salesperson directly sitting in front of them, taking care of them personally. That is what they all want.
Now the other thing they want is they want to give credit to these good consumers for loyalty and awards And they want to do that on standalone kiosks as much as they want to do that on direct to consumer over the Internet. And the other thing they want to do is they want to sense and respond how the crowd is moving, how the offers are going, so they can aggregate these understandings on something like HANA and then change their office dynamically and in real time to upsell and cross sell and really lock these customers into life lasting relationships. That's what sells in the boardroom. I just can't push the e mail blast as strategic to any of the CEOs I met.
Thank you very much. Next question please.
Your next question will come from the line of Adam Wood of Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks very much for taking the question. I just wanted to come back. You mentioned about attacking the CRM market very aggressively. Could you maybe help us understand a little bit what you see as the market opportunity in your installed base from Hybris? Maybe help us out with the deal sizes and how you think they might grow as you push this product into the base?
And then also what do you think is the key point that's going to help you displace the competitors? Is this a market where the landscape is very fragmented in your customers and therefore it's relatively easy to penetrate? Or is it more a question of displacement? Thank you.
Maybe I could just start off with a few facts that might be helpful. We do have the largest and fastest growing enterprise software in the world. We're up now around 240,000 customers in 25 distinctly different industries. And don't forget, our partner network is over 12,000 strong, not to mention nearly 400,000 trained consultants on the ground. So I think the endorsement of more than 80% of the Fortune 500 on SAP is interesting.
So too is the fact that 98% of the most valuable brands in the world run SAP. So what Carsten and Ariel and their teams are going to immediately be able to do is open all of these doors with the SAP sales force, which for my money is the most aggressive and professional value oriented sales force on the planet Earth. So that's day 1. And bottom line is they also have some accounts, half of them that are non SAP. Well, guess what?
They can all be SAP too. We want them all to come our way. So we are going to unleash a CRM campaign to these customers that has never been seen before in the world because now as Jim and Ariel have stated very clearly, this is the end to end business to business to consumer story and now you've got a 21st century GRM platform that does not exist anywhere else in the world. And I do reassert the fact that you want it in the cloud, you got it in the cloud. You want it on the mobile, you got it on the mobile.
You want to touch any touch channel, you got that. And by the way, best of all, you got it in real, real time because there's nothing faster than HANA in the world. And incidentally, if you talk about any of the current providers and you ask the customer what's your number one concern, I can't get real time analytics, I can't get speed. I don't have the insight that I need across all the channels of what my consumer is doing today. I want to know what they're doing right now.
And this is the game changer. So we're going after all that installed base, SAP and non SAP. The sales force is turned on and we'll have some marketing campaigns to get awareness out there with all the CEOs that I think will be very interesting.
Thank you. Now we have time for 2 final questions.
Your next question will be from the line of Stefan Peravicini of Borsen Zieten. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi. Two quick ones, if I may. First one for Mr. Luti, I guess.
You're supposed to run as an independent unit after closing. Will there be any role for your previous investors, for example, in the board? And the second one, I just want to give it another try. Reuters writes that SAP pays a 3 digit $1,000,000 price for high risk. Could you just give us an idea whether this is a rather low or rather high three digit number?
Thanks.
Hi. This is Carsten here. So there's going to be no role for our current investors. They're going to completely divest. And with regards of the purchase price, I can only refer to Jim's and Bill's comments.
Thanks.
Jim and Bill? Thanks, Chris. It's Anna. Could I add a comment on how we will run the company? We do believe that this is a very, very important category.
We'd love to have the management team of Hybris run that. And we will ask the Hybris team to leverage SAP. And what that means is take full advantage of our technology. We have world leading technology. We talked about the HANA, the cloud and mobile.
And Bill just mentioned take advantage of the sales channel of SAP. Imagine you do both. That's the opportunity we have and that's what we'll pursue. Exactly.
And I assume No comment on the valuation. Just so you know, there's really no point in disclosing it. Ibris is a private company, but I can tell you that there was others that wanted Ibris, Ibris wanted SAP. And Hybris could have done a lot of things, but they saw the immense expansion opportunity and the fulfillment of their dreams to be this omnichannelecommerce platform for the world. And that was the dream.
And they felt that they could fulfill that dream with SAP. I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth. That's what Ariel and Carson told us and that's why we were so high on this company. But also about this company, they grew 89% last year. I think when you look at some of the other ones out there, they're growing around 20% and they have a very different business model.
So I think one of the real hallmarks of this company is the true high value that they offer in the boardroom. I'm not talking to the sales director who wants to rationalize some leads. I'm talking CEOs that want to run real companies.
Thank you. We now have time for one final question please.
That final question will be from the line of Phil Winslow of Credit Suisse. Please go ahead.
Congratulations on having the what people often forget, the 4th cloud of CRM Commerce. Bill a question for you, just actually to the marketing side, obviously with Customer 360 that you all have launched now with Hybris, you have a lot of components of both the cloud based and on premise really complete CRM system. How do you see sort of marketing fitting in there since marketing has come up today? And then a question to Jim, could you also maybe expand on sort of just the hybrid aspect of Hybris and just sort of how that fits into your strategy? Thanks.
Phil, I'll just start it off. Thank you very much for your nice remarks. And we're very comfortable with the assets that we have within SAP. That's not to say that we don't look at opportunities when they come our way. Certainly, we wouldn't be interested in email blast as an automating factor, but there are other things.
And we've got a lot of the assets. And what we really get excited with Carsten and Ariel is they're blown away by how much functionally rich solutions that SAP has and even realized. So I think one of the things we get with these guys is sharp CRMI that can really help us take our own innovation, our own development efforts to the next level. And that's why Jim and I wanted to personally make sure that we nurtured this company, gave them the best of everything at SAP and let them spread their wings and run. That's why we're going to have them report right into the co CEOs, so there's no misunderstanding.
So I'll let Jim finish the rest of the answer.
So Bill, secondhand, just so I understand your question there, you talked about the hybrid aspects. I assume you mean on premise and cloud. Is that correct?
Correct. Yes. Yes.
Yes. So right now, Ibris has experience and we're actually seeing the same that most large companies want to control their own interaction with their consumers. So they actually want to control their stores, not different to a retailer who want to control exactly how the layout is in the physical store. The same is true on the e commerce side, which means that most of the large companies today are looking for an on prem type interaction with the hybrids assets. However, you put hybrids on HANA and you put that infrastructure into the HANA Enterprise Cloud, certainly you can offer the combination of you get to control your store exactly as you like and you get the cloud benefits because it's a subscription based infrastructure and you get the speed of HANA to understand your individual consumers much, much better.
So that would be the first step. This is a hosted type cloud, which gives the benefits of cloud and HANA at the same time on top of hybrid. And then clearly, if you go down to the mid and small companies, they will look for more generic, much faster ways to get into the cloud sorry, into the store. And there, we will be, of course, able to put the hybrid infrastructure in our public cloud, we already have a very strong CRM solution and now going after that market in a very, very strong way. So again, as Bill said, we offer ultimate choices on prem, the private hosted and the public cloud and of course all of it through the mobile infrastructure as well.
Does that help?
That's perfect. Thanks guys. One of
the things to build on what Jim just said, I want you guys to know something. We're winning CRM on demand in the multi tenant public cloud all over the place. So we'll have more to say about that when we owe you a report out in July, but we'll have references on our sales on demand multi tenant cloud based solution and lots of them. We're winning in that category too. So this is all about winning on every dimension of CRM because that's what CEOs expect us to do.
Well, thank you
very much.
This concludes our call for today. Thank you all for joining and goodbye. Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye.
And thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude the conference call for today. Again, we thank for your participation and you may now disconnect your lines.