Earnings Call: Q3 2019

Nov 11, 2019

Thank you, Kai. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining TeamViewer's earnings call for the Q3 2019. With a quick look on the legal notices, I would immediately like to start and hand over to our CEO, Oliver Steil. Thank you, Robert. Good morning, everybody. Welcome to our first quarterly remarks after our IPO just recently end of September. I'm Oliver Steil, CEO of TeamViewer, together with Stefan here, CFO. Good morning. Good morning. We'd like to guide you through our earnings. Clearly focusing on Q3 and the 1st 9 months. Before I do that, maybe a quick recap on our business model, some highlights. I've just discussed those with many of you, but again, important to see. We focus on delivering connectivity across devices and across the whole enterprise. We have been able to build a network of 340,000,000 active devices by now. That's clearly important for future monetization. We're growing strongly internally and also from a market perspective. So we have a total addressable market of €10,000,000,000 last year. This is growing at 24%. This is very important. We have moved the business now to a full subscription model. It's 100 percent Software as a Service. And we do have low churn, good upsell, which leads to a net retention rate of above 100%, which is, of course, important for future growth. We have reached global scale. We have paying customers in 180 countries, more than 800 employees in 15 offices around the world. All of that supports what we believe a pretty unique economic model. We do have 430,000 paying subscriptions now. We generate gross margins of above 90%. We have a very efficient go to market model due to free user monetization that gets us to CRTV to CAC ratio of above 30%. And all of that then translates ultimately into a very high cash conversion of above 90% and consistent EBITDA margin of above 50%. And Stefan is going to go into detail. If we combine the strong growth that we see at the moment together with the profitability, we believe this is a pretty unique business model that we have in the software space. On that backdrop, let me go to the next page, Page number 4, business update. Clearly, IPO not long ago, Q3 now in the books, and we're very happy to report that we're on a very good track towards our annual guidance. Q3 has shown a 63% year over year billings growth. As you remember, billings is an important KPI for us, so 63% growth. We have continuously a net retention rate above 100%. It's again 103%, which is very important for visibility for future growth. More than 430,000 subscriptions by the end of the Q3, so very nice customer development. What is important for us is that we go into the enterprise segment. So we're really trying to address larger customers. We started that 1 year ago with our TEMSA product, and we see that this launch has been very successful. The number of customers that are spending more than €10,000 per year with us has grown by 60% year over year. That's a net increase of 72 customers compared to the previous quarter. So very good successful launch of the enterprise segment. The other growth I mentioned, geographic expansion. We are happy to report that we grow very nicely across all regions, 41% growth in EMEA for the 1st 9 months in our most mature markets. That's very remarkable. We see a continued penetration of the Americas. There, we have 60% growth for the 1st 9 months year over year also successful. And we continue to invest in sales force expansion, particularly in APAC in the enterprise segment. 3rd growth dimension are the use cases. We want to make convince customers to use our product across enterprises for more and more use cases. Important in that context is that we introduced the second version of our augmented reality virtual reality enabled product pilot, pilot 2.0. We also committed to continue to invest into R and D very significantly into the new product road map. In order to facilitate that, we have set up a new office in Greece, which would allow us to ramp our R and D headcount even faster going forward. We've continued to have a very strong financial model. So everything which I discussed before continues to be the case. We've increased our margin by 10 percentage points versus Q3 2018. We have a 3 percentage point margin increase versus the 1st 9 months in 2018, relatively stable cost base on absolute level that will allow for further scale effects, and we have a free cash flow conversion of more than of 92%. So all in all, very consistent development in the Q3 compared to the quarters that we have been reporting on before and on a clear track towards our guidance. If we deep dive a little bit into the Enterprise segment, go to the next page, just to give you some color around this segment, what's happening there. As mentioned before, we grow strongly with our enterprise client, which is evidenced by the number of customers with ACVs of more than 10 ks, which increased from 369 in Q3 2018 to 590 in Q3 2019. Just to give you a few deals, top 3 deals in the 3rd quarter. One is the renewal customer that is with us for a longer while. It's a pharmaceutical company, €250,000 renewal. They use TeamViewer for their global internal IT support, so really a global footprint. Had a significant upsell with one of the customers in the automotive sector, more than €100,000 They use TeamViewer now in multiple ways. It started with using it for IT support, like in many cases, and they now expanded the use of TeamViewer to remotely connect to the production line and to remotely connect to large construction machinery. So it's clearly an IoT use case. And last but not least, a new deal with a technology customer, €79,000 in the Americas, who uses TeamViewer for internal IT support, external customer support and to connect to product lab machinery that they sold with service contracts. So very nice examples of growth in the enterprise. Clearly, continues to be a focus area, but we do see good traction there already now. Going to the next page, just a few performance indicators, billings, cash EBITDA. As you know, we'd like to report and guide you on these two important metrics because this is also how we run our business operationally day to day. And Stephan will also give you then revenues and EBITDA and IFRS numbers. But from my perspective, very important to note, Q3, 63% growth year over year, 1st 9 months, 45% year over year growth on the billing side, so remarkable performance. Cash EBITDA, very nice translation into cash EBITDA growth, euros 24,000,000 to €46,000,000 which is a 95% growth in the quarter. And for the 1st 9 months, also 54% growth from €78,000,000 to €120,000,000 So clearly, underlining the scalability of our business model that we have achieved. With this, I will now hand over to Stefan, who will run you through the details of the financials. Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and especially warm welcome to those dining in for the U. S. So let me run you through the Q3 financials. Clearly, as you can see from the numbers, our billings growth has nicely accelerated, also in line with what we announced in the prospectus when we saw most of you again or the last time mid of September. So our year to date billings numbers now amount to EUR 224,000,000, euros which represents a 45 percentage point increase versus the Q3 sorry, versus the 9 months in 20 18. Q3 billings was very strong with a 60% growth quarter over quarter. Let me give you some details regarding the strong growth here and the key drivers behind it. As Oliver mentioned, we saw a continued strong renewal dynamics with a net retention rate of 103%. That means our gross churn continues to be more than compensated by gross and upsell, clearly underlining the stickiness of our customer base, driven by our strong product portfolio and attractive pricing levels. Additionally, we clearly saw a very strong subscriber growth in Q3. We have now more than 430,000 subscribers at the end of September. And this basically combined the new subscriber growth with the strong net retention rates are the key drivers behind this very strong Q3 performance. Let's take a look at the next slide, Slide number 9. The regional breakdown, actually very nicely balanced picture, very strong growth across all regions. Actually, Americas continuing to grow at the fastest pace, 60% year to date and 75% in Q3, primarily a result of early investments significantly larger sales and marketing operations in the Americas and also very nice and strong execution by the local team. And also EMEA, very strong growth here across all major territories, including the larger home markets like Germany, Austria, Switzerland, also U. K. And Southern Europe, all of those countries performed pretty nicely. We also continue to add sales resources in EMEA with an increased global footprint now mainly for the Enterprise and General Business across a variety of larger territories in Europe. APAC Billings also growth or the APAC Billings growth is mainly driven by the increased penetration of the local markets. We talked quite extensively during the roadshow about our expanded footprint in with new offices in China, Japan and India. I think we are particularly pleased with a few early strategic wins in the enterprise space, both in Japan and China. So that clearly confirms the long term market potential in those markets. But clearly, we are still in a ramp up phase there in the APAC region. Maybe on next slide, cash EBITDA development year to date in Q3. The strong biddings growth, coupled with the scale effects and our very efficient go to market model, then also led to a very strong growth in cash EBITDA, which is now up to CHF120,000,000 compared to CHF78,000,000 we had in 2018, representing an increase of 54%. This is basically due to a couple of factors. Our GP margins improved significantly by more than 2 percentage points to now 92%, and this is driven by scale effects within our customer support and infrastructure team and also supported by accounting changes, the implementation of IAS 16, which leads to capitalization of previous operating expenses. As you can see from our P and L, we continue to invest in all key growth initiatives. We significantly expanded our sales force and marketing resources. So you can see sales and marketing spend in absolute terms, substantial increase in those regions. We also add or added much more R and D resources to accelerate the use case expansion through our product offerings, especially around IoT. Then within G and A, I think we've been quite clear that we continue to invest into our infrastructure and also ramped up some investments now needed to as a public listed entity. But despite all of those significant investments, our total SG and A is now at 39% of billings, slightly less compared to the 40% in the comparable period. And if you combine this with the GP margin improvement, this leads in this nice increase in our overall cash EBITDA and cash EBITDA margins, which are now at 53% versus 50% in the prior year. Moving on to cash flow and leverage. Very strong cash flows. Clearly, our asset light business model helps us see on this highly scalable platform. Most of our cash EBITDA converts very nicely into cash flow pretax free cash flow, which we define as cash EBITDA minus the change in net working capital minus CapEx. This pretax cash flow amounted to €47,800,000 in Q3 and nearly €110,000,000 for year to date for the 3 quarters. And both of those metrics imply a cash conversion of more than 90% and very much in line with our guidance. CapEx was slightly above €8,000,000 year to date. And therefore, we confirm the full year guidance of €10,000,000 to €50,000,000 but most likely towards the upper end of that range. Then 2020, CapEx is expected to remain at those levels due to a pending headquarter move. But afterwards, after 2020, CapEx should be in the mid to high single digit €1,000,000 amount per year. Then leverage, as mentioned during the IPO and the roadshow, we expect to significantly deleverage over time, and that's exactly what happened. Our net leverage is now down to 3 point 7 times as of the end of September 2019. Financial debt gross debt is €621,000,000 which includes €8,000,000 of operating lease obligations. And as you know, together with the IPO, we also refinanced the existing debt facilities. We significantly reduced the weighted interest, which is now down to 4.2%, so therefore significantly decreasing the interest charge going forward. And we continue to pursue our deleveraging target to be around 3.0x or 3.1x at the end of 2019 and then less than 2x leverage by end of 2020. A few technical accounting topics. Deferred revenue, revenues amounted to IFRS revenues amounted to CHF 283,000,000. Why is that? We continue to see perpetual deferred revenue being rolled off the balance sheet after the transition to subscription has been completed. As you know, this trend will continue for quite some time, while at the same time, the deferred revenues from subscription continue to increase in our balance sheet. So all of this means that our revenues in 2019 continue to be significantly higher than billings, and our guidance for full year revenues is €386,000,000 to €391,000,000 in IFRS revenues for 2019. For 2020, then we expect this accounting gap to close and revenues to be on a pretty similar level as billings. And then afterwards, billings will then, as for all other subscription companies, will exceed revenues in the medium term. And roughly revenues would be roughly then be 90% of billings going forward. On Page 14, I'd like to cover a few specific accounting topics on top of the deferred revenue. First, IFRS 2 charge share based compensation of EUR 26,000,000 in Q3. This relates to the incentive structure, which was put in place by the selling shareholder by PEMERA for about 80 employees, roughly 80 employees, I think it's very important to understand that this incentive structure is fully financed and paid for by the selling shareholder and therefore, result in no cash outflow and all there is no dilution impact on EPS. Our share count is 200,000,000 and that's the diluted share count as well as the nominal share count. So no dilution impact for new shareholders. 2nd, we announced, together with the IPO, we had some IPO related charges, primarily consisting of an IPO bonus payment, which was paid out in October to all employees, senior based, to all employees which are not part of another incentive scheme. This amounted to roughly €7,000,000 and then it's roughly €1,000,000 of other IPO related costs. Both positions are one off positions and have cash impact, but are backed out when we calculate our cash EBITDA numbers for the quarter. And the remaining one offs are primarily related to external consulting costs for GDPR and compliance implementation as well as some nonrecurring internal reorganization and refinancing related costs. All of those charges amounting to total of €38,000,000 are actually more than offset by the recognition of a deferred tax asset of €59,000,000 which relates to tax losses carry forward, which we have now capitalized on our balance sheet. So wrapping this up and taking a look at our guidance. Clearly, with those Q3 numbers now in the bank, we feel very comfortable about our full year guidance. As you can see on Slide 15, on the left hand side, you can see that the 4th quarter is typically our strongest quarter. We typically generate more than 30% of billings in the last quarter. And also just to remind ourselves, in Q4 2018, we had already completed our transition to a subscription business. And as such, nearly all of those €75,000,000 of billings in Q4 2018 are now subject to renewal. And if you then take a look at the right hand side of that chart, at the 2019 billings breakdown, we feel pretty comfortable with our full year guidance, which basically requires us to achieve €85,000,000 to €95,000,000 in Q4 billings. And if you combine our strong historic net retention rate above 100% and expected new billings, we are actually targeting the upper end of the billings guidance. But at the same time, we continue to invest into the growth of our ecosystem and actually want to boost reality with our new product releases and therefore increasing the monetization potential for the future. So given the significantly higher contribution from Renewal Billings in Q4 compared to other quarters, year over year growth on a relative level will, of course, be lower than the very strong growth in Q3. And then turning to cash EBITDA guidance on Page 16. Clearly, with this strong billings contribution in Q4, we always expect Q4 cash EBITDA to be the strongest contributor, pretty much in line with prior years. We continue clearly continue to invest in our future growth potential through additional investments into sales and marketing, and therefore, we are targeting the mid range of our cash EBITDA guidance. So bottom line on Page 17, we fully confirm the 2019 guidance on billings and targeting the upper end of the billings guidance, confirming the revenue guidance and confirming the cash EBITDA level guidance for 2019. I think with that, we would open it up for Q The first question we received is from Mahmoud Mahalla from Goldman Sachs. Your line is now open, sir. Please go ahead. Great. Thank you very much and congratulations on your amazing set of results as a public company. I had 2, if I may. Just coming back to your guidance for the full year, thanks for some of the clarity around the seasonality. But just curious to get from your sense given the contribution as a percentage full year seems to be in the low 30s is I think what your kind of guidance implies. What is the sort of the puts and takes in terms of the upside case? Is it simply higher sort of new customers? Or are you trying to kind of reiterate that kind of conservative in that guidance? And then secondly, on spending, you talked about sort of higher sales and marketing spending. Can you perhaps break that down a bit more? Is it are you looking to hire more salespeople given some of the success you're seeing in enterprise? Or is it more variable spending in things like marketing? That would be very helpful. Thank you. Okay. So maybe I start with the second one, the spending, and then Stefan does the guidance piece. On this one, it's really by the most extent, it's people. It's really investing into enterprise salespeople and inside salespeople pulling recruitment forward where possible and accelerate. On the discretionary marketing spend, we are very much in line with expectations. Yes. And then maybe on Q4 guidance, clearly, Q4 has always been the strongest quarter where we see a significant chunk of subscribers renew their contracts. And during Q4, we also historically released new products same time this year around, frankly, with pilot 2.0. And we usually want those products to gain as much virality and use cases or user adoption as possible. That also means that we are running less free to pay campaigns during the Q4. And all of this leads to the growth, as you mentioned, in the low 30s in Q4. Great. And sorry, can I come back, Oliver, on your question? So should we think about going forward kind of incremental revenue upside? You would opportunistically look to kind of invest that away to sort of expand capacity? Is that a reasonable assumption? Yes. I think that's what we always communicated that when we see an opportunity where we have to have productive salespeople on the ground in whatever go to market, then we will put money to work and hire those people. But as always said, we're also cautious in these things and want to see the productivity first before we scale. Great. Thank you very much. The next question we received is from Adam Wood from Morgan Stanley. Your line is now open, sir. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning Oliver, good morning, Stephan and congratulations for me as well on the IPO and a great set of first results. Maybe just coming first of all, maybe to clarify on Moe's question around the guidance. If we look at because I understand completely that with a number of renewals, the growth rate in Q4 has to be lower. But if we look at the new subscription additions, it looked as if you added around 30, a little bit less than 30 of addition to subscription in Q3. And even if I take the top end of the guidance for Q4, it implies that there's only around 19 or 20 being added into Q4. I mean, again, is that conservatism that you want to remain cautious around the amounts of new subs that you add given those free to pay campaigns are going to be a little bit slower in Q4? Or is there any change that we should be aware of in the business that's making you more cautious versus what you saw in the Q3? That's the first one. And then just secondly, again, on my calculations, if you look at costs for Q4 and the guidance, if I take the midpoint of cash EBITDA and the top end of your billings, it would assume that the billings minus cash EBITDA costs are relatively flat Q4 over Q3. Is that the right way to think about it? And again, can you just clarify around the pace of investment and then how you're hiring on those two things? Thank you. Thank you. So on the first question on the guidance, it's exactly right the way you describe it. We I think as we said also when we had the pre discussions, we are managing 2 things here. We're managing our billings performance and we're managing our ecosystem growth. As we very well understand that a growing ecosystem of free users allows for future monetization. So this is always a trade off that we're managing. And given where we are this time around, given the very strong growth in Q3, I think for the Q4, we have a view on the mix of new additions, free to pay monetization conversions and the general renewal case. And all of that together leads to us kind of making the statement around guidance towards the upper end, but we also don't want to stretch the ecosystem. So that's the right way to think about it. There's nothing else in the business where I would say you should be aware of that significantly changes. It's a way of how we balance these two target functions. This is Stefan. And maybe with regards to cost in Q4, Q3 cost of 38,000,000 actually included larger sales compensation payouts given the very strong new subscriber growth, especially around in Q3. But essentially modeling our operating expense for the Q4 flat is about right. And then maybe on the subscriber growth numbers, the $400,000 you mentioned or the $30,000 increase, that's actually only referring from August to September because I think what we announced is the 400 ks subscriber was the number at the end of August when we updated the prospectus. So at the end of H1, the subscribers were actually 370 ish. So we roughly added 60 ks of new subscribers during Q3. Perfect. Thank you very much. The next question we received is from James Goodman from Barclays. Your line is now open. Please go ahead, sir. Good morning, gentlemen. Thank you very much. For 2020, I think you guided to growth previously around the same level as 2019. I mean, if we look at the Q4 exit rate, it is implied to be a touch below that. I guess, perhaps conservatism is questioned previously on this call, but perhaps you could also give us some comfort just around the implications for 2020. And I'm also looking at the year on year growth that we've seen during the quarters, I think 24% in Q1, 51% in Q2. Q3, very strong again. Would you expect less quarterly variance in the year on year growth rates in 2020, given we are at a more mature stage now in the transition? And then my other question was just a clarification on the regions. I'd expected a bigger divergence actually between EMEA and Asia growth. I think we're expecting Asia to accelerate, which it has, but EMEA to be a little lower. Is that developing as you expected from a regional perspective? Thank you. Yes. Let me take this one. On 2020, I think it's a bit too early to talk about 2020 guidance, but we feel overall very comfortable with the billings numbers which are out there. And then maybe with regards to the quarterly volatility, I think you're absolutely right that this was pretty volatile in 2019. That's also reflecting that 2018 was significantly impacted still. And that's why as we grow out now of this transition, you see an acceleration in growth. But clearly, with Q4 being the most important quarter and the large contribution of renewals, growth naturally will be less than in other quarters. And maybe with regards to the regional breakdown, I think we are very pleased with the overall contribution, especially by the Americas, which is, as I said, a very strong quarter and a very strong execution. APAC is just basically in the prior years on the comparable period still had a significant amount of perpetual licenses and the Americas, as you might remember, moved to subscription model much earlier. So underlying growth in APAC still significantly impacted by perpetual licenses. That being said, Q3 in the prior year, APAC was very strong. Growth is a bit more volatile in the APAC region. Clearly, we are still in the ramp up phase. But overall, we've been very pleased with the contribution, especially around some of the strategic deals in Japan and China. That's great. Thanks a lot. And the next question is from John King from Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Your line is now open, sir. Please go ahead. Yes, good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. Just a couple on the enterprise business, please. So what kind of margins do you think that business will generate in the medium to long term now? You've had a little bit more data. What are you solving for when you're adding headcount? I guess there's a and perhaps you can just explain a little bit the dynamics. I assume, obviously, with an enterprise business, there's a bit of a lag period in terms of getting to that margin, but perhaps you can address that, but also where you think it will end out? And then if you could just give us some insights into who you're actually competing with on the enterprise side there, That will be useful. Thank you. Okay. So it's Oliver. I'll take those questions. Start with the competition maybe. So very, I would say, very diverse, often no other company. But really, if you think about it, when we talk about enterprise, we talk about the Tensor product, which comes with these additional functionalities. And we talk about new use cases that often have to do with remote management of IT, IoT equipment. We think about pilot, the augmented reality product, which is then often bundled into a tensor license or so. There's a large variety of use cases, which is a good thing, which is exactly what we want. And naturally, then we run into very different competition and sometimes low competition. So that could be in one particular case, it could be competing with BeyondTrust on a more classical IT support remote access piece, where customers move away from on prem and consider full cloud native solutions, and then we are in a good position there. It could be IT management players like the SolarWorld, Kaseya and the likes, which are out there. Could also that we replace LogMeIn. We also quote against LogMeIn sometimes, but not that often. But the majority of discussions when we go through our pipeline for the Q4, for example, is noncompetitive situations where customers are trying and embarking on a change of their business processes and then evaluate internal solutions and just generally solutions to be able to do more remotely. And when we go and present what TeamViewer can do and kind of the ability of TeamViewer to connect IoT devices, non office equipment, office equipment, when we often in very good discussions, quite often greenfield. But naturally, in enterprise, the competition is extremely diverse. And that's also what makes it interesting because it shows us that we are discussing multiple use cases across the enterprise. To your other questions on the margin, I think it's too early to tell frankly how exactly the margin will play out. What we are solving for, I think that's the right way to look at it. We look at our business model in total, growth and profitability, and that's clearly something which we want to achieve in a business mix across the whole business. And enterprise, of course, has to contribute very significantly to that. But it's too early to tell how it will play out because we have very different effects. We have on the one hand, we hire enterprise sales accounts people, which is an upfront invest. And clearly, it's too early to show the full gross profit or gross margin, yes, but not margin after sales cost to come through because we have upfront invest. These people are building pipeline and it takes them a while to convert this pipeline. So that's a margin depression on the one end. On the other end, we have a significant up pricing and margin creation where inside sales people that historically have been selling products around €3000,000 to €5000 per year are now able to win tensor deals above €10,000, sometimes even above €20,000 with the same people, the same sales cost, which is a huge margin contributor. And the mix of that is actually at the moment playing out very favorable despite the fact that we are investing upfront in enterprise. And I think we will need to see how that develops, but we feel very comfortable that over time, enterprise will show the same margin profile than the rest of the business. Okay. And then if I could just confirm that. So you're not worried that somehow you would need to throttle the growth in enterprise to look after the margin at the group level? You don't think it's going to come to that? No, not at all. Thank you. The next question we received is from Stefan Klepp from Commerzbank. Your line is now open, sir. Please go ahead. Yes. Good morning, gentlemen. Stefan from Commerzbank. So you had 60,000 new subscribers. And if I take your net retention rate of 103%, that gives me more or less an annual subscription of less than 500, just roughly under 500. Can you talk about the granularity of those 60,000 new subscribers? Can you talk about what kind of models they went for? And what is the DNA of those clients, more or less? Yes, Julien. So the subscribers numbers or the ASP per subscriber is significantly impacted by business mix. For example, we have products which cater more towards the need of single professional users, sohos or smaller enterprises like our remote access product, which sells for €200,000,000 to €300,000,000 on a yearly basis. That being said, at the same time, we are closing larger contracts, as Oliver mentioned at the beginning of his section, within the enterprise segment where one single subscription contract might amount to EUR 100,000 or more. So there is a significant business mix in our subscriber ASPs. And is it then right to assume when while the mix is so important that you probably converted into Q2 and Q3 more also small Soho and, let's say, small enterprises towards your platform to become paying subscribers? Or is it another driver behind this strong growth there? No, you're right, but we will clearly always add more subscribers in absolute amount than large enterprises because that's just sorry, more subscribers in the smaller enterprise space because there's just much more of those companies out there than large international corporate. Sure. Yes. And it's also it's a natural customer journey also, right? The biggest if you look at our funnel and the ecosystem, we have a large group of free users. And then it's the free to pay conversion that gets the high volume in. And then over time, once we know the customer, we know which customer to develop, cross sell, offer more products and develop into a larger ticket sizes. So that's a has always been a very natural development since inception of the company. People buying add on channels, additional capacity now in the other products, more seeds, more use cases. That's implicit in our business model. Okay, understood. And if I just go back to your IPO prospectus and the current the trading statement there. You basically said you had better data on resellers, and that's why you could convert many clients to become new subscribers. Can you talk about that better data, better grip on reseller data that you mentioned there? Yes. I think what we meant with that sentence is that now we are also in much more granular discussions with our resellers and better understand the end user data behind it, But that's what we are saying. It doesn't relate to any conversion of that or doesn't relate to any improved business with the resellers. It's a key part of us of our business. We continue to invest into their general business. And as such, our discussions become more granular and we better understand the end user data behind the resellers. Okay. Thank you so much guys. As there are no further questions, I hand back to Mr. Hildebrand for the conclusion. Thank you very much for your attendance. As there are no further questions, we would like to finish the call. Thank you. Goodbye. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Bye bye. Thanks.