Status Update

Jun 23, 2021

Slides

Thank you very much. Good morning. Yeah, welcome to our media seminar. The reason for this, we got from many investors the question if we could explain a bit more what we're doing on the media side, because it is pretty special. As you know, we started as a gaming company roughly 8 years ago via buy and build and at a certain point decided to also have a strong media arm because of the synergies between the two. The aim of today is to run you through, yeah, a bit of the backgrounds. We keep it short on Media and Games Affairs because there's many, much more information already around. But we will concentrate today on the media industry, how the industry works, how we are positioned in the industry and also how we see ourselves growing in this industry. So that's the goal for today. There will also be time for questions at the end of the presentation. And yeah, it will be Today will be done by Paul Icht, our CFO. We all or most of you know myself, Remco and Jonat, Not so many know yet, so I would start with Jonnat, asking Jonnat to introduce himself quickly and then hand over to Pal to run through the basics or let's say, a bit of background in MGI for those that don't know us so much. And after that, we go into the topic. Janett, please. Thank you. Thank you, Rico. And very excited to be here. And good morning, everyone. As I was introduced, my name is Joon Tobiataru. I'm the Chief Product So for the Verve Group, meaning that I run product and engineering for the media side. What we're trying to do is Drive value for our customers by delivering, let's say, the right features for their needs or the right solutions for their needs. I actually joined 2 years ago, MGI via the acquisition of my startup, Podnative, and since then helping Renko and the team With Build and Buy across the media sector. Without much further ado, I think, Paul? Thanks, Jonnat. So starting here on the right side with the ownership structure of MGI, here we can see that we currently have 149,000,000 Outstanding, Remco Westerman, our CEO and Chairman, still the major shareholder with 28%, followed by 2 minority anchor investors, Oaktree and Janus Henderson, Holding combined 15% and then we have a lot of strong investors also as part of the free float like Scandia Funder, Adnan Funder, BMO, Ditner and Judge Funder. Therefore, we have a very strong access to Equity Capital Markets. And as we showed also 2 weeks ago, with a bond issue of €150,000,000 We have a very strong access to DCM markets, which help us also to really drive our buy and build business model in the games and media vertical. Coming now to the next slide. That's what we also see here in MGI in a nutshell. We have done now more than 30 M and A transactions, more than 20 in the game space, more than 10 already in the media More than 20 in the game space, more than 10 already in the media space. MGI has a market cap now of more than €650,000,000 We are listed on Frankfurt Stock Exchange and also Nasdaq First North Premium Stockholm. We have more than 800 employees in our group, combined media and games And driving a lot of revenues also in our top 10 MMO games in the games vertical, more than 5,000 casual games, which we sell in subscriptions And serve more than 100,000,000 registered gamers on our games platform. While on the media side, we have actually delivered more than 111,000,000,000 ads in the last 12 months, which gives us a massive reach also to for user acquisition for our games and have served more than 5,000 advertisers who trust us and therefore A really big critical mass already within our media vertical now as well. Looking a bit at the key revenue splits, here we see that the majority of the revenues is now coming from North America With 61%, followed by Europe was 28% and the revenues by segment is 53%, gaming, 47% already media. That's where we really want to focus today on and looking at the key financial development. Very strong profitable growth over the last 6 years, Reaching our 166,000,000 revenues, 37,000,000 EBITDA, with much more to come until the end of 2021 and beyond. There we actually expect to reach the 25% to 30% EBITA margin due to increasing margins on the media side, but also increasing margins on the gaming side. Coming to the next slide, And that's what we also see already here in detail on MG IS 2 segments. On the left side, the games segment, euros 27,400,000 revenues, a very Revenue growth of 97 percent year on year, EUR 10,900,000 EBITA in the Q1, very strong EBITA margin of 40% And majority of the revenues is generated by in game purchases, game subscriptions, but also an increasing part, advertisement revenues, where we realize a lot of synergies within our media segment as well. And then on the right side, the media, euros 24,500,000 revenues in the Q1, 94% year over year revenue growth, 2,600,000 EBITA, 11 percent EBITA margin. We actually had 7% last year, so pretty nice increase And expect 15% to 20% already within the second half year of twenty twenty one. And the revenue streams here are generated by software as a service fees, Agency fees and ad commissions, where the majority is currently coming from software as a service, which gives up pretty good long term recurring revenue streams. Coming to the next slide. And here, we also see a bit the quarterly performance of our media segment. On the left side, We started actually with €12,600,000 in the Q1 2020, reached already €24,500,000 in the Q1 of 2021 and even outperformed on the normally seasonal strongest quarter Q4. So therefore, the media segment is really going strong. We also increased EBITA margins From 7% to now 11%. And I said already, 15% to 20% is the target for the second half year of twenty twenty one. Yeah, 94% revenue growth really stands for itself. Coming now to the next slide. Here we see a little bit The revenue and how it's diversified and which revenue streams we have in the media vertical. So, on the right side, 67% is coming from our supply SI platform, so that's where a lot of gaming, but also non gaming app developers are connected to and really monetize the in game advertising spaces. Then 13% is coming from the demand side platform, 14% from performance platform and 6% from influencer platform And also very impressive numbers. So, 92% of our Software as a Service programmatic clients stayed. So, retention rate 92%, Which means people really stay on the platform. It's a high quality platform and therefore, also increasing their traffic over time. And then on top, we had a 37% increase in new software as a service accounts and both actually leading then to the 94% year over year revenue growth. And yeah, as said already, massive reach, EUR 111,000,000,000 ads delivered in the last 12 months. And now we're coming to the next part of the presentation, and I hand over to Remco. Yes, I'll take that. So on Slide 10, a bit of the background or the history. Gamigo Gaming Company founded in the year 2000. As any normal gaming company in the beginning, it started with external media agencies, so the phase 2,000 to 2015, which has a lack of transparency, despot issues, all these kind of things. So that's not ideal if you really look at efficient customer acquisition and growing your game company. From 2016, we started to focus we took the decision actually that we wanted to get stronger on the media side, and we first started on the influencer side Especially for launching games, influencers are extremely strong, and that gave us, let's say, already better measurability, better results. But then from 2018 onwards, we said, okay, let's really dive into media and into the core of media. And that's really the programmatic part, which is SaaS, which is software as a service, which also fits from a revenue profile much better to the kind of games that we also focus on, which is always products with long term revenue streams, recurring revenue streams, And it's extremely synergetic. And that's also the part of the market, of the media market, that's really growing very fast. So with programmatic, Yeah, you don't have fraud issues. You have, let's say, much more data. You can go much faster. You grow faster, and you have much more efficiency. And having media just for Gamigo would be a bit of a waste. So of course, we work also for a lot of competitors and running in this stuff. So that's the history. Going to the next slide, 11. Yeah, here you see the value chain. So games company, it's about user acquisition, making players happy, let them play and then also making money, of course, via item sale and advertising. The media come on the front side, media for customer acquisition, and on the back side, which is making money with the ads in the games. And as such, it's a logical extension to have the media on both sides, on the advertiser side, but also on the publisher side. Yeah, combining it makes a lot of sense. And that's what we'll see on the next slide, the reason for that being 1, the cost efficiency. And we have here a very simple example of a gaming standalone company like Amigo would be for mobile app for mobile game. Typically, you would pay €0.15 for an install, so get the game on your phone, and you would typically get €2 per 1,000 ad so €2,000,000 CPM, whereas an integrated company would only pay €0.10 and get €4, so you would work with a 200% Higher efficiency, that's only on the cost side. So you take, as a gaming, a combined media gaming company, you take the margin that the media company normally takes and by that can be much more efficient, can go Much yes, can steer your advertising much better. On top of that, and that's on the next slide and on the 13, There's a big data advantage. By having a full chain, a full overview over the whole advertising market and combining it with the gaming, you can much better target users. So it is, let's say, if you buy an advertising space or suddenly it goes to on the web page, the advertising space is auctioned. And we only buy advertising space if you're pretty sure that the ones that are going to look at it are going to be gamers or even paying gamers. And that can only be done with data optimization and also having a full view on the chain. And that's the reason that we and Jernet will go much more into depth there, that we decided to do a full chain media company, which means that we do the demand side, the DSP the supply side, SSP and also the data side. But I shouldn't talk too much about it. That's what Jorland is going to do. Going to the next slide. This is actually how we then started. We said we need an We want to build a media company that can do basically all that a gaming company needs on the media side, which means that and that's the horizontal x that we do in app. So in apps, the advertising mobile web and web, but also connected TV, which is on digital TV screens and digital out of home where we also can reach our users, with potential users. And then you look on the vertical side that we can do basically everything that a gaming company needs, which is creative, brand managed, managed performance, and Jonas will run through all the other things. I will not list it, but you get the point, and we have a kind of ticked the box M and A strategy, where we say, hey, these are the parts that we want, these are the companies that we are acquiring, and there's a tick to box. Of course, we can also fill in some of the parts organically, but doing it via M and A, of course, goes much faster. And here, you see our 2 latest acquisitions, BeamRay, DMP, which is helping us very strongly on the data side a liquid and connected TV company, which is helping us very strongly on the connected TV side. Another part on the bottom is the whole data part or let's say, how do you get As many as possible, 1st party data, Joonin will go into depth there as well. Going to the next slide. And that's coming about to the basics of the media industry, and we will now watch a short video which gives you some background. Please start the video. In its simplest form, programmatic trading requires 3 pieces of technology. Bear in mind that these pieces of technology aren't physical objects. They're just pieces of software. DSPs or demand side platforms are used by the buyers, media agencies or advertisers Who have a demand for ad inventory. DSPs hold information from the buy side about criteria for the ad inventory they need, Target audience and maximum bid price among other data. On the other side, SSPs or supply side platforms Are used by the sellers, media owners, who are supplying ad inventory. SSPs hold a record of the inventory a media owner wants to sell. The different audience segments that visit the media owner's site, and the minimum price the media owner wants to sell for. And in the middle of DSPs and SSPs sits the ad exchange, the piece of technology which auctions off the ad inventory made available By the SSPs. Buyers will be entered in for an auction if the inventory available matches the criteria in their DSP. And then the one with the highest maximum bid price will win. Often, you'll hear a company being referred to as a DSP, SSP, or an ad exchange. This just means that that company provides that kind of software. So for example, the company Data Zoo will often be referred to as a DSP, because that's This might sound like a long process, but it actually all happens in a fraction of a second. The auction process starts when a user opens a page with an ad unit on it. And the ad that wins the auction appears at the same time that the rest of the page loads. Great. Then I now would hand over to Jonas. Thank you And hope that everyone enjoyed the video. Now that you have the high level overview of the ecosystem. Let's look at how it maps up with the Verve Group offering, our, let's say, end to end or full stack offering. Starting on the advertiser side, we have the Verve Group DSP, a demand side platform, as was just shown in the video, which is our SaaS solution for advertisers, including our own advertisers via the Amigo gaming part. I move on the supply side and we have our Vergroupe SSP, which is our again SaaS solution for publishers. Again, also utilized by CAMIGO and other portfolio companies. And in the middle, we have the Vergud DMP. It's Composed of a few DMPs that we acquired and some that we've built and we're going to talk a bit later about that. But what this data management platform does, It increases the effectiveness of advertisers and allow us to connect the dots between our users and find out Which one is the most valuable for whom? In the middle, of course, we have the ad exchange. We actually have more than one exchange. We have 3 ad exchanges with different focuses. For example, one is mainly focused on mobile. Another one is mainly focused On Connected TV. What this ad exchange does, as was shown in the video, is more or less Create a marketplace where advertisers can bid against each other and increase the yield for publishers and the supply side. Let's move on to the next slide to see more about value of data and the data layer that Renko mentioned. If we're looking at non targeted advertising, It's basically serving random ads to random users. We will get some users that are valuable, but not that many. So with that, we will pay a rather low CPM. On the other side, if we have Targeted advertising. Then we can pay a much higher price or each advertiser can pay a much higher price knowing the value of that user. So if a user Yes, let's say worth $100 then we can pay $20 or euros eCPM and then still Be profitable on our return on ad spend after the user is delivered to our game, right, Which in turn means that every advertiser can actually pay much higher prices for each impression or each user, meaning that Those results in better yield, how we call it, for publishers, meaning that each impression will be sold at a higher price, meaning that their overall revenues We'll actually be higher. They will be paid the premium versus paid rather low random CPM. So that's the value of data in a nutshell. Let's Move to the next slide, Slide 19, on what kind of data we are talking about. As any user browses the web, there's a data trail that's left behind, either through your mobile phone or Your computer or even your connected TV. That data comes from The apps you use, websites you browse or the TV program you're currently looking at. We believe That mobile is the richest medium for understanding users and their interests. The main reason behind that is that on the mobile device, you have a lot of use cases. You can use it for photo editing. You can use it for gaming. You can use it for messaging and social. You can use it Checking the weather or checking news or checking the sports or events near you. So it's a really broad range of activities that can infer then user interest. And not only that, but we can infer those audiences On the other devices that you use. That's why we are doubling down on our SDK and our Privacy First, Audience Technology. I think it's very important that Everything that we do across the audience spectrum is privacy compliant by default, both on, let's say, GDPR terms, CCPA terms, but also platform specific regulations such as Apple's. And we're going to discuss a bit later about that. So now that we have the privacy compliant inputs and we know where we get them, what do we gain in return? Where we get Audience profiles. And we get audience profiles such as demographics, age and gender or lifestyle or interests or And what's important there is and let's move to the next slide is that We're not looking only at individual users, but actually increasingly more we're looking at segments or cohorts, Basically a group of users. This is mainly driven by the changing landscape of our advertising. Right. If right now we can understand we and by we, I mean we and our advertisers can understand users based on 1 to 1 deterministic matching, either to IDFA or to 3rd party cookies. The future doesn't really look like that. It looks More contextual or more on device cohorts. We've already seen this impact and we've been working for a while, and I'm gonna Go deeper into that, onto our solutions. So for contextual, obviously, we just did the recent acquisition that Adirunco mentioned, which is Bimray, which is one of the Leading experts in the space and for cohorts we've been building our own solution, which I'll dive a bit deeper later. Moving on to the next slide. And lastly, how do these formats actually look? So what is actually presented to the user, right? Because DSP, SSP, DMP could be a bit abstract. So what the user actually sees is different ad units. You've probably seen them already. Chances are that quite a few of those are driven by our solutions. We have, of course, the banners, which are rather smaller units, usually at the bottom of the screen. Having just issues, larger engagement units used for game advertisers. We also have native units that blend with the content And we have different types of video. And what's important is that we serve all of these ad units across what we call the omni channel user journey And from the mobile device, desktop and PC to the connected TV and even more recently to digital out of home. Yeah. With that, I will hand it back over to Remco for the segment overview. Yeah. Thank you very much, Janard. So then coming to the next chapter, and that's now with Slide 23, where we start, it's showing you a bit what Verve is doing. Verve is the media part of Media and Games Invest. So that's where we bundle all the media things and to go through. This page 23, you see basically the 3 main pillars. The 1, of course, is people, the team. We have a great team, Extremely fast going forward, extremely a lot of expertise, over 200 employees globally. And out of that, over 60 engineers and over 50 salespeople. The reason behind, it's a very technical market, so you need to continuously further develop your product, also to innovate. And on the other hand, if you have a good product, you need to, of course, to sell it. Then industry excellence in the middle. Yes, we work really have a very nice position with what we have, serving the Fortune 500 advertisers also having a lot of proprietary algorithms and optimization possibilities to make sure that the match Supply and demand is strong. And I work for over 4,000 publishers on the other side, where we have a lot of direct integrations, which gives us also a lot of data, of course. And then, of course, not to forget the gaming supply, working closely together with the game companies with Camigo, where there's also, of course, a lot of supply and also a lot of demand. And then on the right side, global omnichannel ad platform, that's the nice phrase of how we call what we have, which means, as Before that, we've come from the demand side, the supply side, the data part in between that we basically serve the whole technology that's needed between a publisher and an advertiser. We do that for in app, mobile web, desktop, CTV, OTT and digital out of home, also terms that Jorent already explained a bit and will go in further detail later. And of course, we offer it as a SaaS platform so people can do everything themselves, but also as a managed service platform where people where we can manage the campaign, so we have people that manage the campaigns for their customers. Then on the next slide on Page 25, you see a bit of our global footprint. Also here, the thinking behind it again Scale, if you have a technical platform, you need to scale it. It doesn't make sense to have a technical platform only running in Europe or only running in the US. If you have the elements, just run it globally. The more volume, the more efficient. And here you see a bit of our global reach, Strong in the U. S, strong in Canada, strong also in Latin, Germany and also other countries in Europe. We haven't listed all of them here. And let's say also looking into the Southeast Asian markets and also in the Asian markets. As you have seen in the press release that we announced, just got out this week, we are looking at acquiring or into acquiring Smaato, which is not yet fully done, but we are expecting signing pretty soon. It was mentioned in the press release, so I can't go too much more in detail than we have in the press release, But also that, I mean, we have here 1,400,000,000 mobile devices that we serve. With SMARTO, we would serve a lot more and also add more regions here. I'll come to that later. Next slide, 25. Yeah, the value chain, again, as mentioned before, on the top side, advertisement on the left, publish on the right and everything between we do with the media part. And what you see also on the bottom, that we work for very well known advertisers, a lot of game companies, over 60% of the volume on the media side is with games or lesser game related. And also on the publisher side, you see a lot of game companies' names, But also there, we work with non game companies. Coming to the next page, 26. Yeah, this is a bit how do we Compared to other companies in the market, other media companies in the market, we've listed some of the more famous ones or a lot of the larger ones. McKnight, a very well known Rubicon project that I spoke before, The Trade Desk, very large, one of the, let's say, old strong owned companies in this sector. They have Ironsource, which started as a media company, but then also did a lot of gaming acquisitions. Pubmedic, a supply platform, Also strong just recently did an IPO. IronSource actually did a spec deal, is also listed now. And Eplavin, also a media company, Starting to acquire game companies like Machine Zone and many others. So also, let's say, IronSource, Eplaven are pretty close to what we do. Come from the media side and then start to acquire game companies. We did it the other way around being a game company, starting to acquire media companies. And here you see a bit of the match where we are To emphasize, I think transparency of the standards is extremely important in a market where Facebook and Google that are not on this list, but of course also should be in here being the large ones, but they are coming more to closed gardens. So they are not that open. So competitive expect here in this market is really being open, transparent, open source as well. And then you see that a lot of them are only on the DSP side like a Trade Desk or only on the SSP side like a McKnight. So they don't have a full chain where we think it's the, let's say, the big advantage. And then also you see difference in, let's say, what is being served mobile, web and CTV, OTT, where we are pretty going through. Most comparable, I would say, are IronSource and AppLavine because they also have the strong gaming edge. Coming to the next page or next chapter, actually. And Paul is going to take the industry outlook. Paul? Yes. So starting here with the global digital advertising market, And as we can see here, it's a high growth market with a revenue CAGR of 14% expected until 2024, Reaching then €640,000,000,000 market volume. And what we also have seen in the last Periods that now the digital advertising overtook classical advertising, that especially the programmatic Advertising now represents more than 2 thirds of digital advertising, so 68%. And that's actually where we are positioned in, And it's also growing within the digital advertising markets. So, we are directly in the high growth market there. And what we also expect or How we see it is that every company who really wants to do efficient user acquisition needs to grow programmatic and that's what NGI has done in the last 2 years. Coming now to the next slide, looking into the landscape of the ad tech industry. And here we see that Google and Facebook actually was there. Vault Gardens take roughly 50% of the digital advertising market, but as Remco also mentioned briefly, not as transparent. And therefore, MGI positioned itself in the open internet market and it's really driving transparency. And we also see that more and more advertisers and publishers actually join our platform and therefore driving very high growth with the open Internet market with full transparency. Coming now to the next page. Here we see a little bit of industry overview and also the market players. So we see it's a lot of market Participants, which have come to the market in the last 10 to 15 years, and therefore, it's very fragmented and perfect for consolidation. And that's actually where we're taking opportunities or advantage of, and therefore, there's a lot of opportunities like SMARTO, which we look into to acquire. Coming to the next page. And here we see also some of the trends in the market, which offers ample of opportunities. On the left side, the privacy initiatives. So for example, depreciation of the IDFA, where Apple just started A thing which we now tackle fully with our Atom product, where Jonat will give much more details later on. And then there's also Google, which We'll appreciate the 3rd party cookies next year. There's also further opportunities where MGI and together with Werf Group Expects to gain further market share. And on the right side, the consolidation part, more and more companies do consolidations. So EBLAVEEN, for example, also is going vertical now, Acquire, just, adjust. Zinger is also going more into the media side and just acquired Chartboost. And there, we see actually that also the IPO activities have increased and valuations have gone up. So IronSource, EBLAVEN, to name 2, have just gone public. And coming to the next slide. And here we see actually that also valuations have increased over the last years quite a bit as programmatic advertising, EdTech Also, games is a very hot market with a very strong high organic growth. And therefore, the recent IPOs are valued at pretty good Matterports now. So 45 times EV EBITA is a peer group where for 20212022, 33 times. And looking at the valuation of MGI, which is still a smaller player compared to these ones, but nevertheless, a 73% discount. And that's what we will also focus on the coming periods on to decrease the valuation gap compared to our peers here. Coming now to the next part of the presentation, the growth opportunities. Yeah, that's where I'll come in. And we have split the growth opportunities in 2 parts. The one is acquisitive growth. You know us as a company that has done a lot of acquisitions. And the second part is organic growth, and that part will be taken by Yonath. I'll take the acquisitive growth. Yeah, we started as a game company that was, We thought too small, like many game companies, and we have acquired, let's say, well over, I think it's 20 game companies now. And we have, after that, started to get into the media part where we also did well over 10 acquisitions now. So this is really a good way to grow because if you want to build critical mass to do it organically, it takes pretty long. And that's also again, this is the slide that I showed before as well. And you saw on the slide that Paul showed that there is a lot of companies in this market, a lot of companies that are too small. And too small means they don't have Money to invest in the future, they have no money partly to invest in customer acquisition. Like, for example, Beam Ray that required a company with great technology on the data side, But they were always just around breakeven or a bit below actually and, yeah, not able to hire an extra sales guy and all these kind of things. So it really is it's a natural thing to acquire this kind of smaller targets and to put them together to something that is has a lot of synergies in is in between, which is also having a lot of, yeah, synergies on the sales side. And that's what we're doing here. So you see a lot of tick the boxes in app. We are Getting pretty complete, still some things missing. And if something is missing, it's not a huge issue, but it's, of course, nice to also have it. You see that's still missing is creative side. Creative is extremely important to do efficient ads. It's a bit more manual than, let's say, the technical parts that are below it. But creative is very important, so that's something that we're also still looking at the right targets. But we said we also have a prioritization here. We first want to build a full technical stack, And then you can leverage it also a bit more creative. Then on the mobile web to website, we are not that strong yet on the SSP side. That's the sort of supply side. So that's something where we're looking into targets. Yes, CTV, we did a very nice move with liquid. So also there, we have a good position now, still some blanks, but getting pretty fulfilled. And digital out of home, it's not the most important part for a gaming company, but still, out of home is growing. So that's all the screens that you see on the airports, on the outside, out of the door, everywhere. And it's getting pretty integrated with all the other or media part, sorry. And for that, it's very important to also have that. But that's also from a priority point of view, a bit lower on our list. And then, of course, on the bottom, you see again the audiences making sure that you have first party data, that you have access to first party data, which either can be that you own yourself content, like our game companies, or that you have, let's say, the consent from the one that owns the app to be 1st in row in the app, or let's say, in the inventory set. So that's very important. And the other thing, of course, Atum, that is what Jan is going to talk about, that's an organic part actually, should maybe not even be in this list, It's good to show that we also do some parts organically. So many more targets on the list. And let's say there's also smaller and larger targets, of course. And then we're coming to the next slide, which is a larger target. It's Smato, pretty well known media company founded in Germany, then Let's say, founded a U. S. Subsidiary, which in the end became bigger than the German part. And yeah, as you see here, a company doing €30,000,000 to €40,000,000 revenues, really substantial, within roughly 30 percent EBITDA margin, which is also extremely profitable and good. And this would really add a lot of critical mass to us and would help our media part to grow fast or to grow strongly. A lot of synergies in there and just going bit through, let's say, what's the acquisition rationale. That's a strong SaaS play also. So also adding here, it's adding critical mass, I said already before. Substantial synergies with the games that we have also, they also do It's a transformative deal because it would really add substantial EBITDA also to our bottom line, of course. And it's a financially attractive deal where I'm not allowed yet to give any further details. As said before, we have released a press release on this one. It is not signed yet. It's, let's say and we have ordered a deal that's not signed is not 100% secured deal yet, but we expect it to be signed within the next weeks. Yeah, pretty cool and reaching that's in here, let's say the 4th point on the left side, 1,300,000,000 unique users monthly. We showed before in our slides that we have 1,400,000,000 that we at the moment reach. So you can roughly calculate from that what it will mean for our critical mass, of course, doubling on the users and, of course, very substantial, bring us forward on the media side. Smerto is more on the supply side, which is very nice also adding there and makes our target list on the demand side, of course, also a bit more aggressive maybe after this deal. Coming to the next part of the presentation, and that's the organic growth. Janeth? Thank you, Renko. As Renko mentioned, I and the teams I manage are focused Mostly on the organic part, what that means is creating products, solving customer challenges And delivering those to market and then measuring success, mostly through revenues. That's how we measure value delivered to our customers. And before we go into the specific details, a quick or hopefully quick overview of our platform. We're going to start from the advertiser side. So the demand side, how we call it, this is where we offer our Software as a Service are SaaS solutions for advertisers. We do this via what we would call a control layer on the left side. What this means is that the advertisers can set up the campaigns themselves. We're actually going to show a quick demo at the end and manage the performance Throughout the lifetime of the campaign and manage optimization as well. Outside of that, we of course Have what we call the demand management layer. That's where all of the external demand, which is not our On demand or our own advertiser demands comes into our marketplaces. This could be agencies, this could be DSPs or other Exchanges that compete in real time, keeping us also competitive on our demand side, while at the same time Delivering the most value to our publishers. We run more than 1 point 5,000,000 auctions every second. So as I mentioned, scale is critical in our type of business. Now, in order to gain visibility on the operations of our platform, both on the demand and the supply side, we have what we call a data layer. This shows reporting KPIs on campaign success or on advertising performance. And connected to the data layer, we have our data science layer. I think Renko mentioned a few times about our algorithms and optimizations. We split them in 3 main categories. The first one is bidding optimization algorithms that's on the advertiser side, Allowing them to achieve the most cost efficient targeted advertising. So basically buying as low as they can To increase the return on ad spend. So that's one part. Then we have exchange optimization. This is controlling auction dynamics, Who is allowed to bid, who is not allowed to bid? And we do this automatically. Of course, we cannot manually control 1,500,000 auctions Every second. This also reduces our cost as we drive more optimizations there. So that's on the, I'd say, marketplace and supply side. And the last layer of data science and optimization is our audience creation. Atomy is one part of it, but we also have our 1st party audiences, behavior audiences with 1 to 1 deterministic matching, which is as a part of the platform. And of course, the BIMRA audiences, the contextual audiences being part again on the on the audience creation. Last but not least, this all plugs into our supply management layer or Supply layer, let's call it. We are very flexible in terms of our integration points with our clients. So It could be via APIs in some cases, which means application programming interface. It could be via JavaScript tags, which is a Short piece of code that you put on your website or it could be via SDK, which is a software development kit that you integrate when you build Your app. Having that flexibility allows us to reach scale and solve customer challenges Independent of the software stack and the solution that they are using, I think that's quite important to our success We're going to go to some case studies a bit later. So if we move to the next slide, please, slide 38. A product that cannot exist or cannot be successful in a vacuum, right? So we do need to This product and we split our sales initiative mainly in 2 parts. First on the demand side products, We sell either a self serve product, I think Renko also mentioned, or a managed product. So that's the 2 offerings, the 2 main offerings we have. But we also split it against the size of the client, right? So we have large Fortune 500 clients, but we also have SMEs who need, I would say, a very different range of Both services and solutions, right? The SMEs will have much smaller budgets and they might use more of the self serve, Well, the large customers will need, I'd say, white glove service and will help them throughout the whole lifetime of So that will be the demand set. On the ad exchange, so basically the supply side, we operate a marketplace Or a few marketplaces, as I mentioned. But the gist of it is that we need to add more supply. And we've seen the growth that Paul mentioned, I think 37% new accounts that generates new growth to our platform. But at the same time, we need to add new demand and new demand partners and grow those. And I'm going to Going a bit on the flywheel. Outside of that, which would be our, let's say, core offerings, we also have other New offerings which are underway coming from our publisher SaaS sales to our data monetization, our private marketplaces or user acquisition efforts. So now let's move into the next slide with our I'm just going to focus on the marketplace, which is the larger part of the business. And this starts from the publisher side, It's always a chicken and the egg, but we've more or less solved it quite a bit in the past. What this means, we add new publishers To our marketplace, to our platform. And with that volume of new users and new ad placements, We go to the advertisers' side and offer it, of course, in real time and via OpenRTP protocols to their, let's say, software associates, which are the DSPs or in some cases the SSPs. Once they are on board and they start spending budget, then we can add new publishers and get that market share or that share of wallet on our marketplace. And we repeat this over and over, adding more and more publishers. We have a few 1,000 right now and on the other side, We have a few hundred. So we are, let's say, spinning the flywheel and it just gets larger The more critical mass we get. Of course, we don't do this in a vacuum. We take customer feedback, both on the publisher side and the advertising side. What this in turn does, it allows us to improve the platform. The platform we just went through on either of the layers, Either the data science layer and the algorithms or the controls layer or the reporting layer. I am. So it's a constantly moving piece of our business. And this is Well first, the growth, one important part and unique differentiator is that we do have the end to end value chain, Which allows us to much faster move this flywheel. I come from the supply side And of course, you can move the flywheel, but sometimes you need to go through 3rd parties and they have different roadmaps and different priorities. Once everything is in house, including The media side, so the own and operating gaming properties, both on the monetization and the user acquisition, then you leverage all of these The synergies and managed to speed up the flywheel. And now we see it also with a lot of the companies, as I think Paul mentioned, uploading IronSource. And recently even Zynga, understanding this, having this control allows us for faster iteration than being On each side with conflicting interest. Yeah. Okay. Now let's move into some examples of what we're building, let's say, the next generation of the platform and maybe even the next generation of how advertising is going to look So ATOM is our solution for basically the IDFA deprecation, but it also prepares us for maybe Google's ad ID deprecation. And And we're also looking at the 3rd party cookie deprecation for moving this solution into the web. Right now it's just for iOS because that's the most pressing need for our advertising clients and our publisher clients. Shortly what it does, it collects data From the device, from the app that's being used and from the ad interactions that have been observed Throughout the user journey or throughout the user session within an app. Then that data is collected, run through machine learning model And the output is characteristics such as age groups, gender and interests. These are of course benchmarked with our deterministic audiences, The behavior ones in order to make sure that we continually increase our performance and our Let's say probability for a device to be part of a group. What's very, very important Is that no, we don't use any personal data. We don't store any personal data. Everything happens on the device. And the only thing that's available is an output with a probability of belonging to a certain segment. I think That's really new and novel. And there are only a few companies in the world right now that have similar solutions, and those companies are Apple and Google. And we've been working on it for the better part of the last year. Again, leveraging the unique skill sets we have by having the full stack. Data science and audience building, but also SDK scaling and on device processing. So those two skills combined allowed us to be Unique position to develop this and be at least first to market to bring it. Now on to our next innovation, which again, we've been working for the last couple of here and actually this one we're also going to demo later. This is our demand management solution for publishers. So Of course, we offer SaaS sources for publishers for monetization. That's One part or one of the major parts of our business. But now we allow them to bring their own demand, so bring their own DSPs, their own Advertiser connections, their own SSPs, even our competitors, and manage that setup by themselves. Yeah, so this is very similar to our demand side product where advertisers manage their own campaigns. This allows publishers To take control on their advertising business model with full transparency, full real time analytics, BStream level data to better understand which users are more valuable and how to manage that part. Not only that, but of course, we connect our audience layer to this offering and reaching further There are capabilities. And we also operate or work with most consent providers out there to make sure that Everything is privacy compliant and privacy first. But at the same time, we have other tools for verification and viewability, Which are the OIM SDK from the IAB or ad quality, which is a very important topic As user experience is very important for all of our publishers, no one wants to show a bad ad. So we work with third parties to ensure that. This is based on our open source SDK. It's also based on our, on the open source Prebit server, Making it much more attractive or it's an easily auditable solution for publishers. All right. Let's move to the next slide. Then I think we have the demo where we show some of our platform components. We will start with our DSP, which is our software solution for advertisers to run their campaigns. So this is the campaign setup screen. We will start the media plan first. We can select which campaign should be in the media plan. Then now the actual campaign set up, we of course look at goal oriented type of campaigns. We can run, of course, CPM and all the other tactics. We can select the price that we're willing to pay for reaching those goals and of course the budget. And of course, the dates as well when this campaign should be running. And a few further details for the campaign setup. It's quite a flexible platform, so all details about the campaign can be set up. Now we're moving on to the Inventory side, of course, but making our own in house SSP is one of the sources we can run the campaign. But we can select, of course, any of the other sources out there in the market and our inventory will compete in real time with the other sources To make sure we find the right user for each campaign for the right ad. What's so important and we're going to show momentarily is that We work across channels. So omni channel, as Rene mentioned, that means mobile, that means desktop and that means connected TV. Furthermore, we can actually select Specific publishers, for example, if we want a game from Gamigo or Aria Games, we can specifically target that placement That screen, in order to deliver ads, just there. Last but not least and very, very important, the data layer, We already mentioned it, but just to rehash, it can be ID based, which would be behavioral, it could be contextual Or it could be using our cohorts or ATOM audiences. We also leverage 3rd party audiences from the Life Supply ramp and so on. Now on to our supply offering, which is the hybrid cloud, Which is more or less the mirror software for publishers to manage their ad inventory. We're going to go with an example with an app. So this is where you enter your app details. Again, fully self serve, Just like the other tool. Of course, you need the store ID if the app is on iOS or Android. Afterwards, we would add a demand partner. As I said, we are available by default, but the publisher can create And add their own demand partners connected to an API. They will have And own the contractual relationships with them and we will facilitate the auction. And of course, we will compete in that auction. This is very important, is that it gives us a much broader view or overview on the full monetization of the publisher versus Just part of the monetization. Some details in terms of auction type and the formats that are available can also be set up. This product has not yet been launched, but it's already live with a couple of publishers. We plan to launch it within a month, publicly within a month as Some publishers already have access and are live with it. Now lastly, but not last, obviously the reporting, Checking the KPIs such as revenues, impression, fill rate and making sure that everything is in order and that everything is growing With the current setup, that's where most of our publishers spend their time. All right. And with that being said, let's look at some case studies of our publishers, how we drove success With these solutions, of course, we have, Gamigo, where we increased the conversion rate by double digits, 10% to 15%, which is more than 200,000 users, an increased ROAS across the board. Again, a good case study to have on our owned and operated media. But we also leverage this solution for 3rd parties Such as Meet Group, which is a publicly listed company, where we managed to increase the revenues by using a hybrid integration, both from our SDK, which you saw before, and our JavaScript tag. Moving on to the next and last Case study, that's NATO, that's a photo editing app. Again, as I said, mobile is such a versatile medium that it allows, of course, for games, which is probably the largest segment, but also for other use cases, for example, social as before or photo editing as this one. And again, we managed to double the revenues on Android and almost double on iOS as well. Without and that was the case study. I will hand it over to Remco for the rest. Yeah. Thank you. Then before we come to the last Please, if you can go one back, please. I'm not going yet through this one. Yes, thanks. I wanted to say some words before I come to the general conclusion about the presentation today. Yeah, this is in 1 hour, as much as we can do in it. It's really only the top of the iceberg, kind of. As you have seen on the interface that Jon had showed, there are so many settings possibilities. We talk about so many channels in media. And when I was at university, which is a while ago, we were always talking about that from each guilder, it was then Dutch guilder, 50% of each percent is wasted, but you don't know which 50%. Since then, that was a time that there was only a few channels on television, that there was not that many media sources. Since then, this world has much more complex. And that shows also that the difference between spending your money well and getting a good response or getting good efficiency from your media versus just spending money and not so much efficiency coming up is huge and has become much bigger than this fifty-fifty. And that's the reason that we started going into the media part, and that's the reason that we really see good results in combining a gaming and a media company. That's bringing me now to the last page, which is a summary for the whole group for Media and Games Fest. So we are an integrated media and games company. We are targeting growth of at least 30% year on year, which we have been out beating very strongly, as Paul also showed before, in the last years. We did 25% to 30% EBITDA margin, so it's not only about growth, it's also about profitability, of course. And very important, low business risk focus, It's easy to waste money. It's easy to buy to do wrong acquisitions. But of course, it's about spending your money wisely. And that has also to do with the kind of business that we're doing, and that is we are focusing on recurring steady revenue streams, which is MMO games, multiplayer games, where players are playing a long time in the games and also steadily happy and growing with the game. That's what is on the game side. But on the media As we explained before, it's about SaaS revenues, software as a service, which also have long term concurring customers. And if people want to start using the interfaces that Janne showed before, they will be on board for a long time as long as they're happy, Results, and that has a lot to do with how good our quality of technology is, but also how good the connections are. Then strong organic growth. In gaming, it's about new content game launches. On the media side, it's about scaling existing accounts, but also adding new media accounts. Then Utilizing strong synergies between gaming and media, very important. There is a big win. That's also what Iplafin And as an iron source have seen, even Zynga is now buying also into media companies. But they're not that let's say, the number of larger targets is getting smaller. So I think we had a pretty good timing on this. And yes, it helped on the customer acquisition. It helps on also making money with the advertising inventory. And there's a lot of know how sharing in combining the 2. Then Synergetic M and A, talked enough about that, I think, over 30 accretive transactions, well filled pipeline, both for gaming as for media. And then what we also do with differentiates us a bit from quite some competitors is that we integrate the acquired targets either within the gaming part or in the media part, which leads to efficiency gains and economies of skill. So that's, let's say, making the circle round. So far, we have mostly been talking about games. Today was a day for the media. Both parts of our company are roughly the same size revenue wise. On the EBITDA side, The gaming part is still much stronger. However, we only started 3, 4 years ago with really doing the integrations, the acquisitions on the media part and starting to see also there that the EBITDA is increasing very fast. Within transactions like SMARTO, we would even get much more critical mass there and also make it on the EBITDA side much more similar to the gaming side. So that's, yes, our presentation for today. Time for questions, I think. Thank you. Okay. We have our first question on the phone. So that comes from Philippe Vai of Vorburg Research. I have one question. I'd probably first of all, you mentioned the well, basically the huge Fragmentation of the open Internet and well, can you give us a broad idea of How fragmented it is compared to your size actually? If you would rank yourself In a list of the largest players in this field, how you well, would we talk about what Global rank, which we basically talk, it's the first question. And then the second question, well, Can you give me an idea or an idea of how the pricing basically for your offering for software as a service is actually Evolving and well, would it be fair to assume that basically a doubling of your reach Should also lead to a positive effect in terms of pricing, just a rough comments here. Janard, do you want to take the first one about the size? And either you or Paul, I think, will have the pricing one. I can take the first one and if Paul wants to take the second one. On the first one, with most of our publishers, we are Within the top 5 to top 10 partners they work with globally. That is, of course, outside of the walled gardens, right? Facebook, Google, this promotion, 50%. So outside of that, although the market is fragmented, we managed to pull through and get at the top. And of course, with further acquisitions, we could go even higher. Yeah. Sounds good. And then in terms of pricing there, you refer, I guess, to the CPM, CPA, CPI kind of development and how that could be impacted by a further acquisition like Smaato and how it would evolve over time. Yeah. Right. Wilco, do you want to answer it? Yes, I can also take it. Let's say, typically, what's interesting on the media part that margins partly are pretty high. If you look at, let's say, Google and there's some research on that, that's typically from each euro that's spent on Google, but not on their own YouTube inventory, but on third party for inventory. 50% to 70% is actually staying with Google, which shows that there is a bit of room for improvement there. And what we typically see is that an SSP and a DSP each are taking roughly 25% of the media spend on the platform as a fee. Then there's also some smaller fee, mostly for the data part. So if you add it up, it's a substantial part. And still of each euro, then that A big part is going into the how to say it, into the ecosystem. With, of course, further consolidation, we expect that, Let's say the cost of the technology and all the cost of the intermediaries will go down a bit. So the margins will be a bit under pressure. At the moment, we don't see that at all. But it's, of course, also USP that we have with having a full chain and being very flexible there. And to your question, let's say scaling this makes a lot of sense Because your fixed costs are hardly increased by scaling it, your media costs are scaling more or less In line with your, let's say, revenue scaling, technology costs are also hardly scaling with it. They get a little bit more expensive, but also they are more fixed So in that sense, a larger company is just more profitable and as such can also invest more, of course, in further innovation, in growth, in sales. And yes, similar what we saw on the gaming side. If you're a small gaming company, it's difficult to have the money to launch a game or to yes, to get new games into the market. And if one of the games fails, you have an issue. And on the media side, it's the same. You need a certain critical mass to be efficient and to be profitable. We are targeting I mean, we started with 7% EBITDA Q1 last year. We are now at what was it, Paul? What was the percentage now in Q1? Sorry, I'm missing this one. No, it's not a percentage, I'm not mistaken. No? And Yes, now so it's really growing. We are targeting 15% to 20% EBITDA by the end of this year on the media side. And as you saw also on SMARTO, which is, Let's say, a bit further integrated already, you can also do 30% EBITDA more. So that's what we are also targeting. I hope that answers your question. Thanks a lot and particularly for setting up this day. Pleasure. Next question. Thank you. And as there's currently just one question in the queue. The next person in the queue is Ken Rump from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Hello, gentlemen. Hi, Deco. Thanks for setting up the event. I think it's very useful and the explanation was Very helpful. A couple of questions. 1 regarding being both a DSP and an SSP or having both a DSP and SSP, that End to end opportunity, you talked, for instance, about as the industry consolidates, maybe take rates come down. Do you have an opportunity to be both more efficient? Supply path optimization seems to be another acronym in the industry. But also having those two things to offer, as I say, a better proposition to customers And make money out of a lower take rate, if you like. The second question I hope that makes sense. The second question is just on ATOM. If that's successful, how would that manifest itself? Would it be more volume? Would it be higher Prices because the ads are more valuable. And yes, just that really. Thank you. Jornit, do you want to take this one? Yes, I will take this one. So first one, just to rehash, was about the consolidation and the fact that there won't be as many players in the future or the consolidation is already happening. And how do we answer that with the full stack? So yes, there is a trend of Decreasing the take rates, but it's very slow, right? It's maybe 1% per year, maybe even less. What I would say consolidation drives, still drives competition, right? So yes, instead of having maybe 20 partners, you would have 10. And the ecosystem is moving already to 1st price auctions, right? So it's not the 2nd price, so there's not there's less, how is it, less opportunity to arbitrage. So there's more opportunity for adding value, which brings me to the next point about the full stack is actually leveraging the data to drive value. And if we drive value and more efficient advertising, then we can win more of the impressions and more of the inventory and more of the budget. So it's back to the flywheel. So we are looking at data and our O and O as our USP, and we're investing heavily into that to increase the value that goes through our pipes. Then we can compete. So we could even expand on margins if we deliver the value, right? Because not about the 50% necessarily that's taken by the, Let's say by the ecosystem, is the ecosystem delivering 200% return on ad spend? I think that's what we should be looking at, not just the spend, but what Comes out of the pipes and delivering the value there. And that's what we're focusing on. There was even a part, I think, on measurement on our M and A pipeline. So we're Yeah, we're quite active on that part. And I hope that answers the first question. And could you repeat the second question then? About ATOM, that was a key point. Yes. It's basically how would ATOM, if it was successful, it's obviously in its beginning stages, How would we see that in kind of financial terms? Is it that revenue goes up because you get a bigger market share? Is it also that perhaps The value and this relates to your kind of value proposition to customers that the ROAS goes up. So people are prepared to pay more for your product because it's delivering a better result From a customer point of view, so you get a higher price. So is it kind of volume or value or a bit of both? Thanks. It It starts with value. So you basically answered the question for me, so I have to thank you for that. But it starts with the value prop, right? Right now an advertiser is blind. So when They buy something. It was one of the sites. They were just randomly shown ad and maybe they will find a user, right? With At Home, We increased the likelihood that it's actually the user they were looking for in a specific demographic and with specific interests, right? So then the price increases. I can tell you already and if you haven't seen the reports, the CPMs on iOS, they went to half right now. Yeah. And the feed rates, basically the interest of the buyers has also decreased. Of course, the industry is working on it, but we're not there. What we're doing is being ahead So yes, it starts with value proposition right now. And as it scales, and of course, it's still being tested, but we already have more than half a 1000000, I think, users On the solution per day. As it scales, then it becomes a volume game, right? We are first to market. We can iterate our solutions. We've been working on it for a year, some people haven't even started working on something similar, right? So I would say it's a value first, which is what we're driving right now and is volume later Ideally should put us in a strong position in terms of market share within a year, a year and a half as the iteration and this chicken and egg takes a bit of time. Okay, thanks. Thank you very much. Thank you. Yes. You're welcome. Thank you. And our next question in the queue comes from the line of Sven Sauer of Kepler Cheuvreux, please go ahead. Your line is open. Hello, gentlemen. Thank you for the presentation. Two questions from my side. On the cell and demand side platform sites, I was wondering how much of the business is attributed to Gamigo and how much to external advertisers and publishers? And the second question is, have you received maybe some first feedback regarding your ATOM solution? Paul, do you mind taking the first one and then the other second one? Should I take the first one, Ruka? Or Yes, please, Paul, go ahead. Yeah. Okay. So the first one, so we have roughly €10,000,000 revenues, which we consolidate out between the 2 segments, Gamigo and Wealth Group. So that gives actually an idea of how much revenues and synergies is realized between both of them. But there's also increasing connections like Our casual games platform is fully integrated now with Platform 161, and therefore we can really show all the ads via our own system And therefore, also drive further ads in the games from 3rd party publishers, from 3rd party advertisers. And these kind of things are increasing. And as you could see, 12% of our revenues in the games segment is already advertisement based. That actually also gives an idea of the full synergies, which we can realize there. And there's much more to come. And therefore, We're realizing a lot of synergies, which also led then to the 38% organic growth, which we have been able to contribute in the Q1. And therefore, yeah, we are pretty happy actually that we have been able to combine both segments in such a good We already know, and there's much more to come. But the consolidated revenues are only showing external revenues, just to make it clear. So the internal revenues are consolidated Thanks, Hector. Jan, did you take the second question? Yes. So, Adam, feedback. Yes, we got quite a lot of feedback. We've been talking to the advertisers, I would say since beginning of the year, actually end of last year, since we had the first version of the product live, so we talked to The largest holding groups out there to publicly see as we talked to Dentsu. And the feedback was always positive. Of course, take a bit of time to get into the media plan. And then we also need to scale it. But we have them as partners on the pipeline to test as we move forward. So the feedback was first Really, really positive. And then we were the first ones that they've heard to build this solution. Now we're hearing there are others, but At least in our conversations, we were the first ones to build it. And we've got interest from everyone. The main feedback that we got was, hey, we also want to measure it. And that's something we're working on already in the next iteration. So not just, hey, we have the audiences, can we prove that those audiences are there and they deliver results? So that's More or less the next iteration of the atom. We might even release a case study in the next months on that as the solution matures. So that's closing the loop. One interesting point to that is even Apple are interested in the solution and advertising with us. And we have a call in the next few weeks with them to see if it fits. Just to make a remark, because we're a Stump List company, this is, of course, just a possibility and not something that's going to happen, and we need to be careful with this kind of information. Sorry to interrupt you. No, it's a very good point. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And we have a follow-up from Ken Wams at Jefferies. Two additional questions. One was just to ask, You have a history in M and A of paying, shall we say, kind of modest multiples in profit terms. Obviously, some of the companies that are listed certainly in the ad tech space trade on very high multiples, as you showed. Should we assume that you feel that you can continue to progress with M and A and Media, consolidate with businesses like Smarter without Specifically referring to that because as you say, it's kind of still to be confirmed. But should we assume that you think you can continue M and A without Sort of paying the kind of multiples we see at public companies perhaps. Yes, that will do. Thanks. Yeah, Cameron, I can take this one. Yeah, we see in the ad tech market, especially with the listed company and with the IPOs now, Extremely high multiples. This, of course, has a certain effect into the market that with certain companies that we talk to about M and A, they to start to compare what they want with what's in the market at the moment for larger listed companies. And those are companies that we stop conversations with because we don't want to pay this kind Of course, there is the multiple arbitrage game, which would, even if we pay a bit less, make it maybe for a listed company nice, but we Still are strong believers in value creation. And value creation, you don't do if you pay this kind of crazy multiples. So we would refrain from doing M and A with crazy multiples. And there are, and that's the positive side, there are so many companies in this market that are around and so that you can also do transactions without paying these crazy multiples. I hope that answers your question. Okay. As there are no further questions coming through from the phones at Time will hand back to our speakers. Yes. Then we're coming to the end of today's session. This was asked for by investors. I hope that we lived to the expectations. And we're able to give you a bit more insights. Oskar, of course, happy to go further. If there's follow-up questions, don't hesitate to ask. And also give us, please, your feedback how this was. And, yeah, we can learn from it. And if there's the Question for doing this more often, we can do this, of course, also for other parts of the company. So thank you very much. And yeah, wishing everybody a good Midsummer Night and some celebration of that as we have many Scandinavian C online. And, yeah, thank you all very much and Hope to speak to you soon. And thanks, Paul and Janard, for the presentation, of course. Thank you very much. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye.