Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to join this results presentation of the first half 2021 of Alma Media. My name is Elena Fokkeren. I'm responsible of the communications and branding of Alma. As usual, we begin with our CEO, Mr. Kai Terhane, presenting the overall results.
After him, Mr. Johan Notinen, our CFO, will present the financial position of Almer Media today. And then Mr. Terje returns and turns about the operating environment and our strategy going forward. And after the presentations, we welcome all the questions.
We first take the questions from the conference call line and then from the online chat. So feel free to ask questions. I think we are ready, set here. And I will hand it over to Mr. Teva Ne, our CEO of Alfa Media.
Once again, welcome to join us today.
Thank you, Elena, And good morning to everybody. Selena told you I will start with the highlights of the second quarter and the first half of the year. And after me, CFO, Johan Noten, I will continue with the finances and of course, with the balance sheet issues, which is now a little bit different than we used to have before after these acquisitions. As you perhaps had time to already Look at the interim report. The big picture is that we had a fantastic 1st or the second quarter, really strong one.
We were actually a little bit surprised how fast the recovery has started at the difficult last year. It's really nice that all the business segments performed really good. One can say that even better than we expected. Organic growth was nice 24%. And of course, after our heavy investments, revenue and operating profit grew with these acquisitions.
Netx is now included in our figures since the April and they are included now in all these figures. We took the 2019 figures here in on this slide Just to remind you how our record high year was, which was the 2019. Last year was, of course, a quite an exceptional year, a difficult one. But as you can see from this slide, Our revenues are higher than 2019 from last year's 52.6 €1,000,000 to €71,600,000 an increase of 36%. And of course, with the good revenue growth, our EBIT margin and EBIT grew from €9,800,000 to EUR 16,600,000 almost 70% up.
We are after the 2nd quarter at the record high profitability level of 23%. As I told you, Ed, I want to just want to remind you, Johan will go deeper into this. Our financial position It's totally different than it used to be in the beginning of the year after these transactions. Our gearing is 160 and equity ratio 29 Plus, we have to take care of the balance sheet carefully now. But With this good profitability and nice cash flow, this leverage will decrease quite fast.
So situation is well in hand, and we are really, really happy with the current situation. I'm really happy that we had this kind of exceptional quarter, while All business segments succeeded at the same time. As you can see from this slide, Revenues in our carrier talent and consumer all went up nicely. And about half of the revenue growth flew to the bottom line, while our carrier profitability ended up to €3,000,000 or growth to €3,000,000 talent €2,300,000 and consumers profitability grew EUR 4,500,000. That's a nice situation for a CEO.
I'm really happy with this again. And of course, most of the growth came from digital businesses, which is in our case the most important targeting long term. This slide looks a bit awkward, of course, while the jump from last year's minus 17% on the right side of the slide to this year's Q2, 57 percent growth. 76% of our revenues are now coming from different kind of digital sources, which ended up during the first half of the year to €99,000,000 That's good. Now we can take a little bit deeper dive in different segments, but quite a short one.
Then start with the career. This is, of course, been a question mark that How fast this recruitment business is going to recover after this difficult COVID-nineteen situation. We thought that it might take a little bit longer, but now it seems that all the markets are picking up rapidly, not only in Finland, but also in Eastern Central Europe. Our revenues in Carrier went up 48%. And what is really Important and nice in our case is that our customer invoicing is at record high level.
2019 was our record year and we thought that it would take Couple of years to reach the record level again, but now it seems that we are already there. Of course, remains to be seen how the situation continues with the COVID-nineteen. But at the moment, the demand is quite high. There's, of course, this kind of pent up demand with increased activity. Our customers have saved the costs and now they put the money at work and the demand is high at the moment.
That is the big picture. In our case, the growth Comes, of course, from the core carrier listing business. But in addition to that, Our positive development is driven by added value services, for example, our CEDO digital education platform, which is running nicely, especially in Czech Republic. And we are testing its international potential also elsewhere like in Slovakia and Finland. Of course, with the increased revenues or expenses went up to the 7% and especially on marketing and personnel course with the increased invoicing.
Operating profit nicely up 62% and the EBIT percent 38 point 6%, which is more than we expected. So that's the broad view of Alma Carrier's 2nd quarter, very good one. Now, Matt Talent, we had also a very strong quarter driven by Nicely increased advertising, especially digital advertising and also the services improving nicely. Revenue went up 13%, advertising revenue comparable advertising revenue nicely, 55% up. Digital content change, which is one of the key elements in our strategy.
It's been for a while, continued to be strong again, growth of 24%. And that was the key reason for being able to mitigate the decrease of print subscription revenues. We are developing different kind of services inside the talent group at the moment. They are Mostly digital services like marketplaces, property information company, data law related services and so on. They are growing and developing as expected.
Digital ratio already nearly 90% and increasing nicely. We have a very good expense cost control in the segment also expenses on a par with last year's comparable period. Very good growth of profitability, 84% to €5,100,000 Euros and the profitability 20.2 percent, which is really good achievement for a media company for a media segment. On the right side of this slide, you can now see The split by business unit or by businesses inside talent segment. So the media segment or the media businesses inside talent segment Like, Polpeleti, Talozelam and those, they make 50% 53% of the revenues and a quite a nice growth during the Q2, 22.1% growth.
And then the services 32% and direct marketing, which is called the mega 14%. And the last one, not the least one, Alma Consumer, where we have had during the last year the biggest changes, A significant step up due to the very nice organic growth and of course, the Netix acquisitions. Revenues went up almost 70%. The biggest demand from housing, cars and mobility marketplace is as well very good. Media digital media very, very strong growth As we've seen now, the Ilta Lettis advertising revenue reached all time high level.
So there is, of course, this kind of pent up demand in Finland, where the lockdown has been quite strong for several areas and now the customers are using their money. Market share, gaining the SME sector, where we are investing and organizing our businesses differently and adjusted operating profit 160 percent up to €7,300,000 27.5 percent margin, which is quite decent in these businesses. And on the right side of this slide, you can see the revenue split by verticals, media and ad finance services. About half of the revenues, mobility services like Neti Auto, Auto, Dali and those 27%, housing services at toovi.com and those 17% and comparison sharing economy services about 7 percent. So this is the brief overview of segment levels development on second quarter.
Now I will hand over to Johan Noten, and he will go through the financials and the balance sheet A little bit closure and then I'll come back later.
Thank you.
Yes. Thank you, Kai. Yes. In my financial position review, we will focus on the effects of Netix acquisition and especially its effect on balance sheet and our leverage. Let's try.
So like Kai mentioned, we have a total different kind of picture in our balance sheet now when compared to last year. We have SEK 222,000,000 interest bearing net debt at the moment and gearing is 100 60%. Our interest ratio is 29%. So totally different balance sheet than last year. But like I said, we have pretty strong cash flow at the moment and the leverage will be decreasing quite fast during the following quarters.
Cash flow in the second quarter was from operating activities, it was strong one. It was NOK 16,000,000 And compared to last year, it was a pretty big increase there. Naturally, it came from the improved profitability, But also there's other items as well like lower taxes, for example. Like you see from the right hand graph, we have quite stable cash flow at the moment. Earlier, our cash flow was mostly focused on Q1 or Q4.
Now it's more even during the year And like you see from the last three quarters have been pretty much the same cash flow around SEK 15,000,000 SEK 16,000,000 per quarter. And this comes from the fact that we are more and more having marketplace kind of business. Also our media business is more digital and these all facts make the cash flow more even during the year than previously. Of course, then we have Netx acquisition. And so that's why our cash flow from investment activities was minus SEK 173,000,000.
There was also a redemption of minority shares in Etuah shares included in that investment cash flow. But like you can see from on the left side, we have had Pretty strong year from acquisitions point of view, SEK 241,000,000 acquisitions totally during the 1st 6 months. And that's the huge investment amount and of course naturally affecting our balance sheet. We have discussed earlier about our invoicing and revenue relationship in our Makarios recruitment business and that's why we are following also here the same graph. This was pretty surprising the invoicing increase in April, May June in this year.
And like you can see, the invoicing amounts have exceeded actually 2019 levels already and that was one of the surprises which came also in our positive profit warning in couple of weeks ago. And this is some kind of rebound from last year and let's see how it continues. And but in any case, our revenue expectations in Alma Carrier is quite positive during to second half this year because of the strong invoicing trend during the last 3 months. Earnings per share was also improved. It's SEK0.12 in this last quarter.
And there is a lot of a couple of issues behind that. It was improved, of course, naturally because of better results. There is also this effect of our redemption of minority shares in Alma Carrier in March and also our MAMERIA partners shares in December. Those effect is around €0.02 which are improving our earnings per share in this quarter and also in the future. We had adjusted items SEK 3,600,000 in this quarter and they all came from Netx acquisition.
We already earlier told about SEK 1,200,000 advisory costs related to NetEK's acquisition. And the other part SEK 2,400,000 is related to transfer tax because of this Netx share acquisition. So the whole SEK3.6 million is coming from Netx acquisition. Long term financial targets naturally is Exceeded now, our digital business growth from the first half year is 28% and it's clearly above the 12% target. Naturally, there are also organic growth but also because of these acquisitions.
Our retained ROI FICRE is 12% from the first half year and our target is 17%. And concerning this target, we have difficulties to get this target in the coming years because We have invested SEK 300,000,000 and it's naturally affecting a lot to our invested capital and it takes a couple of years to come back with the levels what we have in the target as 17%. And then dividend payout ratio, we have not changed this. And in the second quarter, there is no reason to to discuss this target at this point. So that was the financial review and take hand to Kai also and Kai take some comments about our strategic issues in future.
Thank you.
Thank you, Juha. As you had Told you the long term financial targets are a little bit strange at the moment. So So we have actually decided to come out with the new targets around the CMD that we have in September actually. So you will We will concentrate more on this issue later this year. A few Thoughts about the operating environment then.
The big question is, of course, that Is this recovery going to continue with the speed that as it started or not? Or Is the COVID-nineteen going to continue with different kind of delta or other variants, which might affect the recovery in different countries. The present view is still like this. This is for from the summer forecasts. The underlying economies are expected to grow quite nicely.
Even in Finland, close to 3% GDP growth and in other countries, between 3% and 6% growth. So this is the big picture. If this happens, Our basis for good growth still stands there for recruitment businesses and different kind of digital advertising and services businesses. So the broad view is that The underlying market is going to be quite okay for us. The Finnish advertising, which is, of course, the question mark, it's been always The rebound has been quite strong during the last months as we've seen from the market And from Amas revenues, it's in short term, it seems that the rebound continues.
So there is this kind still this kind of pent up demand in almost every sector of our customers And we expect this good development to continue in short term. But then the big question is, of course, that how is the Finnish economy really going to develop in long term. Do we have the growth that is needed or not? On the right side of the slide, you can see the market shares and the development of the online advertising by media companies in Finland. As you can see, our market has grown.
That comes from, of course, from Dynetics operations and then from a nice digital revenue organic growth. That is as expected and according to our plans. Then I just want to remind you of our strategy. We are not changing the core strategy at the moment. We have 3 main parts.
First of all, we will continue to transform the core business to still accelerate the digitalization of the print media. At the moment, we have 76% of print business. We will continue until We reached the full 100 percent digital business. We are organizing all the time our businesses, core businesses, so that we can reach the full synergies of the company, which means a tighter cooperation within group and business units. And of course, we are doing this kind of financial engineering to divest or discontinue unprofitable or low profitable businesses, which we actually did also in the second quarter.
I will come to that later. And of course, the second part of the strategy is to grow in digital businesses in digital media, mostly advertising and subscription business, marketplaces and digital services. All these are in our focus and we are doing heavily our homework around this. Of course, mainly concentrating on the businesses with synergy benefits, which is of course the key of the cooperation or cooperative strategy. And then of course thirdly, we will continue to internationalize the business of Almer Media.
We have had a quite successful journey in this. We will expand the new geographies, if possible, and then and our businesses in current geographical areas like CEDO or other service businesses around the core business. Samples of our operation inside the strategy during the second quarter. Of course, the Netx integration process is the most intensive one at the moment. We've been concentrating heavily on that.
We are in good speed. We will take over the all the services by the end of August. We have a new organization there management key personnel in place and now we are concentrating to harmonize the operation models and company culture. Second example is the redemption of the minority stake in Eduardo Fi, which is a one of our comparison services. And then we divested Talasofta, which didn't actually fit in our strategy.
We didn't We couldn't integrate the business into our Edovi or of those housing businesses probably. And then Alma Talent Services invested in instrument tonnistetieto, which is kind of know your customer service part of of the talent services, more services in the future. New Monster. Fi recruitment platform launched in Finland, it's in the launch So at the moment, it will be very good. And then, couple of just An example of the medium business, Kao Polleti started to offer sustained analytics ESG risk ratings to our subscribers, which is a tool for responsible investing.
So these are This kind of practical examples of our operational strategy that we are doing and did during the Q2 and more will follow. Very good. And then finally, I will just remind you for the outlook that we will repeat after the positive profit warning that we did. So we are expecting our full year revenue and adjusted operating profit from continuing operations to increase significantly from the last year's level. And here you can see the figures that we had last year.
But of course, There are question marks and they are coming, of course, from the pandemic. It's really difficult to estimate how the market and the demand is going to continue, especially in midterm. In short term, it looks like Quite okay. But in midterm, it remains to be seen. So there is this kind of uncertainty, of course, in the market in every market that we have.
So that was my part of the and you have part of the presentation. Now we are Happy to answer your questions that you might have a lot. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Kai. Thank you, Juha. And operator, we will be ready for the questions.
Thank you. To cancel. Our first question comes from the line of Patek Koyala from SEB. Please go ahead. Your line is
Hi, this is Peter Vecukwela calling from SVB. Couple of questions, if we start with career. You mentioned record high invoicing. So just to be clear, is this in Q2 specifically? Or are you talking about year to date as a whole.
Johan might remember, So Q2 was at record high level. I'm not sure did we already reach the 2019 level For the first part half of the year. I doubt that. Juha, you can answer to that if you remember. You have the figures.
Yes, you are right. It was 2nd quarter all time high figures. 1st quarter, we didn't it was March was already very good month, but Still the Q1 was we were slightly behind the 2019 levels.
Yes. All right. Thanks. And how should is this invoicing that comes in the summer months, is this like shorter term invoicing or does this provide you like good visibility into the second half as well?
So especially in LMC, which is the biggest business, this is this kind of long term commitments like we are selling this kind of credits, which have their effect on revenues on long term. And of course, a good start or the good Q2. And if it continues like we expect during the Q3, it will give us a good start also for the next year. So for the biggest carrier business, this is a sign of a good long term development. In other businesses, the commitments are shorter.
If that was the question Yes,
it was. Thanks. I understand you don't want to give a kind of specific figures. But From what I kind of calculate, you could be pretty close to 2019 levels already in 2021. Is this Really the case?
Or is there something that I'm not following here?
So in Carrier Business, right? Yes. Yes. Well, it depends, of course, very much on the pandemic situation. But like The demand at the moment is over 2019 levels.
And if that continues or continued. We are quite close to or even on 2019 level. But then there is this if And it's heavily dependent on the pandemic situation. But for now, It looks like you said, it's quite good.
Yes. All right. Thanks. And On Alma Consumer, the net is acquisition was included. You mentioned the revenue contribution from that.
But Could you give some kind of indication on how much EBIT contribution that gave in Q2? And basically, what does the margin profile look like Without the acquisition.
We are not giving service specific revenue or profitability figures out.
Yes, All right, understood. Thanks a lot. That's all from me. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Sami Sakurami from Nordea. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Okay. Hi. I have three questions. Firstly, continuing on Kalmar Korea. You did have quite high operating leverage in Q2 despite material savings last year.
Do Do you anticipate smaller operating leverage in the second half of the year when you may again start making normal growth investments?
Could you repeat the question? So What is the question? I didn't understand.
Yes. So I think in the presentation, you noted that at Alma Courier, About 50% of the revenue growth dropped through to EBIT line. So there was good operating leverage despite you having done material savings last year. So cost comparable was quite tough against that in that sense. So going into second half of the year, do you expect similar high operating leverage to prevail?
Or should we be sort of prepared for cost inflation.
Yes. There's some problem with the lines, difficult to hear. But if I understood correctly, You're asking that are we going to continue with the same profitability level that we had during the Q2 after having a heavy cost cuts last year during the comparable period or Was that the question? Yes. Okay, yes.
So in total, we had last year during the Q2, euros 8,400,000 cost cuts that came from the whole company. But of course, quite a lot from the carrier. I don't remember the exact cost cut off of the carrier group, Johan might remember and have the figure there. But the total was €8,400,000 during the Q2 for Alameda and now we don't have that at all. So we are in a normal situation, No different kind of cost measures at the moment where we We are running the business with the full speed with all the costs.
As you noticed, the costs have increased. But then the question is your question is that, is this the normal profitability, like the new normal profitability level of our market carrier. I doubt that There's this kind of pent up demand that burst it out right now. So we my personal view is that this will normalize a little bit during the last part of the year, even though the demand is in short term, it's high. So I'm not expecting over 50% profitability for the entire group.
So that will the development will slow down in that That's and then of course we want to invest in the new businesses. But the idea is of course to increase the profitability step by step from last year's level and we try to reach the 2019 record high level or even go further. So that is the big picture and the plan, of course.
Okay. Thanks for the answer. And then I would have a broader question on pent up demand. So if we look at the strong development in Q2 across the segments, How much of an element of pent up demand was there in your view? I mean, should we assume that we're now back to kind of like the pre pandemic demand levels and its business as usual from now on?
Or could it be that There was just heavy pent up demand in Q2, but we might still be in for weakness in the coming quarters when that demand is not there.
Yes. Sami, your line is really poor. It's Difficult for the listeners to listen or hear your question. But if I understood right, You were asking that is how far we are from the normalized demand level of advertising, for example, in Finland or how much of the They could develop it up to 2nd quarter of the advertising game from this kind of pent up demand. Was that the question?
Yes. So basically, what I was asking is that if we look at, for example, the advertising media markets now in the month of June. They had recovered to pre pandemic levels. Do you think that will prevail or was it just a good quarter with plenty of pent up demand from earlier quarters?
Our estimate is that in those businesses that are not affected by the lockdowns anymore, We will reach the 2019 level. So the expectation is that Every business is every customer wants to normalize the situation and come to the normal investment marketing investment level. So that is the broad view. But then of course, there are still these kind of businesses They are lagging of their own demand and they are not able to invest in marketing. But the big picture is that, yes, we expect The situation to normalize and come back to the 2019 level as soon as possible.
So that is the view. And that is happening right now. That is happening right now. There is this kind of pent up demand, so this kind of jump short term jump and then we will come to a normal more or like normalized situation, which is closed or on the 2019 level. So It's good to look at the 2019, which was a normal year.
It was a record high level in our case, but it was like a normal year without the pandemic. So that's the idea and the view.
Okay. Thanks. And then my final question would be on the full year guidance. Why are you guiding for only higher adjusted EBIT for the full year and not clearly higher as you seem to be doing pretty well. And I mean, if we look at the consensus estimates, these are assuming about 25% EBIT growth for the full year.
So we are guiding adjusted revenue and adjusted operating profit from continued operations to increase significantly from the 2020 level. That's our guidance. Okay. Yes. Okay.
We don't have any other wording to use in our case.
Our next question comes from the line of Pia Roethlis from Carnegie. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Yes, hello. It's Pia Roest from Carnegie.
I have a few questions. 1, regarding the increase in sales. Can you discuss and open up a bit, How much of the sales organic sales increase do you assess is driven by possible price increases?
Not really. No significant price increases. So We are actually continuing with the normal pricing strategy, which is following The volume increases of our services normally like if you have more viewers or spectators or visitors, you're able to increase to prices. And that is the that is always the reason for price increases on top of normal inflation rate. So I would say that this revenue increase came from volume increase.
All right. Thanks. Then still On AlmaCareer and the digital educational training services, CEDO, Is the strength if I understood you correctly, is the strength still coming from Central Europe and not So much from rolling out the services in Finland.
Yes, you're absolutely right. So it's developed in Czech Republic and the service is running nicely there. We are launching it in Slovakia as well, which is pretty much the same language and we are testing it and trying it in Finland. And then of course, investigating the international potential in other places, probably it's in an early phase still.
Okay. Thanks. Then on Maxtaland, the your expense level was on par with last year. Why is that? I'm trying to understand, does it imply that you don't see This current revenue level as sustainable or can you discuss the cost level in Alma Talent?
Can you repeat it? I didn't hear it correctly. So the Yes. What was your answer?
Sorry. So in Yes, in Alma Talent, your expenses were on par with last year. Why is that? I mean, I'm trying to understand if it implies that you don't see growth in the current business or why?
I didn't hear. Johar, Eylin, could you repeat, I didn't hear the question correctly. Something wrong with the line. What was the question? On Alma Talent, I heard that Alma Talent That was the segment.
Yes, it was really difficult to hear. Yes, yes, we didn't hear it.
Could we try again, Pia?
Yes, yes, sorry. I'm really sorry if my line is bad. I tried to ask why the Alma Talent expenses. We're on par with the line.
Sorry, Pia, the line is really low.
Very bad line. I don't hear anything about year.
Is there any possibility, Pia, for you to write your question on the online chat, so we can read it out loud here? Would it be okay?
Yes, I will. Thanks. Yes.
Yes. Sorry.
Okay. So we have no more questions from the line. I will hand it back to our speakers.
Okay. Thank you, operator. We have one online chat question here at the moment. It's from Petri Gostowski from Inderes. It's a 2 part question and it's been actually partly answered, but no worries, we had such a bad line that maybe the repeat is good for all of us.
So considering the record invoicing levels, do you expect carrier marketplace revenue growth to continue from the second quarter level on the Q3 level on the Q3, sorry. So revenue growth to continue from the Q2 to Q3. And the other part is that was there any exceptional items in the shared services EBIT on the second quarter minus SEK3 million adjusted EBIT in brackets or is this the level which we should expect going forward?
Okay, very good. You You can also the last one, the shared services part. It's clear. It looks like The demand of the carrier will continue during the Q3. So there's all signs are telling us that.
But then for the full year very difficult to say. There is this kind of it looks like during the Q2, there is also the carrier segment, this kind of pent up demand that burst it and started very well, but still I'm quite confident that during the Q3 that the good development continues. Is it that high level difficult to see, but the invoicing is quite good at the moment. So we are quite confident in that sense. But in advertising, like in Proteus in Finland, very difficult to see yet how The last quarter will look like.
Juha, you can answer the shared services minus EUR 3,000,000.
Yes, thank you. Yes, shared services, we booked SEK 3,000,000 more costs or losses compared to last year. And there are a couple of reasons behind that. One reason is what we have discussed earlier already, it's concerned regional media sales last year. And we have some fixed cost in support functions going on, and we are not Going to decrease those costs for short term and we are suffering for that this year and we estimated that the support functions fixed cost effect there is around SEK 3,000,000 per year.
And that's one thing why our costs are at higher level compared to last year or EBIT loss. The other reason is bonus reservations. We made quite a significant long term incentive bonus reservations in the second quarter in our results because of higher expectations and higher results. And last year, on the contrary, The reservations were pretty low level because of last year's decreasing results. So that's one thing.
And the third thing is that we also last year made quite significant cost saving measures and which was around SEK 1,000,000 in share services and now they are not existing anymore. So they are coming from Last year's cost saving operations, this year higher bonus reservations and then the support functions fixed cost related to regional media sales.
Very good. That was clear. And now I can see now I understand what Pia Was put on the table so that is clear. So the Pierre's question was that on Alma Talent where expenses on par with last year, why is that Does it imply and so on. So the short answer is that in Alma Talent, We have a divested print businesses.
And of course, the print and the Print business in all has declined. And we, of course, Getting rid of the print related businesses like the printing and delivery costs hand in hand with the revenue decline in print business. And of course, the that affects to the total cost and where we're able to like transforming the business talent business from print to online, we are able to stabilize the cost development. So not at all like we are not expecting the current revenue level to be sustainable vice versa. And the service business where we are investing, the growth is expected to continue nicely.
So that is the question. So transformation from print to digital makes the cost base lighter in that sense. But it's stable while we are at the same time investing in new digital businesses. So that is actually the same that we did in former regional media. So we were doing this kind of Cost effective measures initiatives different kind to mitigate the declining revenue effect.
The other question, the other part is that our consumers' investment in regional advertising sales strengthened the consumers' market position in the segment. So what we do, so we have invested in the regional sales organization, which is running nicely. So we have invested in personnel and organized our In that sense, and that works as expected or even better. So we are selling The Alman network like all our services and Ilta Leti and talent media's advertising in that part. And then of course, the content marketing and so on.
So that is the question. So we are strengthening our organization, weighing of doing the business and doing the cooperation inside the group on all Finland's level. So That is the answer.
Okay. And there is one more question from Tibor Messin. You are guiding significant increase in both revenue and operating profit from 2020 basis, but how would that compare to 2019 levels?
No, we are not guiding anything compared to 2019. So we will of course guide also on only compared to 2020. You had to calculate this or do your own guidance in-depth
relation. Okay. Thank you. At the moment, there is no other questions. So if we don't have any other questions, I think then it's for the final words.
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. We will meet again on 16 September, where we have our Capital Markets Day and then Q3 Inter report on 21st October. Thank you very much. Have a nice summer.