Earnings Call: Q4 2020

Feb 4, 2021

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this news conference regarding CargoTech's financial statements review 2020. My name is Hanna Maria Heikkinen, and I'm in charge of Investor Relations. Before starting the presentation, I kindly ask you to pay some attention to disclaimer. As a reminder, we cannot discuss any merger related topics in this call due to U. S. Securities law regulation. 2020 was an exceptional year in many ways. The positive news is that positive trend has continued since May in terms of net sales orders and comparable operating profit. For full 2020, we succeeded to deliver satisfactory comparable operating profit margin. Our service business was resilient and share of Eco efficiency sales increased. Just before Christmas, a merger with Konecras was approved by our Extraordinary General Meeting. Summarizing these key messages, I would say that we saw good performance in an exceptional year. Today, our CEO, Mikka Vennvilleinen, will start the presentation with twenty twenty highlights. He will continue with market environment and group development. After that, our CFO, Mikka Polakka, will continue with business areas, financials, dividend proposal and outlook. And after the presentation, there is a great opportunity to ask questions and get good answers. Mika, please, time to start. Thank you, Hanna. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen and from my behalf as well, thank you for participating on the Cargodec Q4 twenty twenty conference call. 2020 was indeed an exceptional year and I'm proud of the performance that Cargedec was able to show in its operations through this difficult crisis. There are many good takeaways to take from the 2020 despite the difficult situation. Overall, when I look at that, our orders obviously declined year on year in 2020. However, we started to see a very strong recovery in our orders, especially in our most profitable product segments in Hayab and Kalmar Mobile Equipment at the latter end of the Q3 and we saw the acceleration of that demand in the orders in Q4 and that's obviously very visible on the Kalmar Mobile Equipment and Hayab order intake in Q4. Our sales declined compared to 2019 and the fact that orders declined quite strongly throughout the Q2 and early part of the Q3 was then visible in the delivery mix of our Q4, where the portion of the more profitable Hyaban and Kalmar mobile equipment was lower than usual affecting somewhat operating profit as such. I am very happy to see that the resiliency in our services business was maintained there and services only declined slightly, primarily coming from less value added maintenance services and on-site services that they restricted through to the COVID impact. Also, it's good to see that the R and D investments that we have done in developing our Eco efficient solutions are bearing fruit and actually our Eco solutions grew year on year by 9%, whereas the rest of the Solutions and Equipment business actually declined and is now representing 24% of our revenues. We are actually ahead of our plans and already passed the initial targets we set for next year in our Eco Solution revenues as well. Operating profit was obviously impacted by the COVID, but I'm very happy about the performance that the MacGregor team has been able to show that the results actually improved by €24,000,000 compared to 2019 and the good work that we have done with the TTS integration and savings is clearly delivering improving results now and this is the fourth quarter in sequence that MacGregor has been able to improve its performance. Despite savings actions and the COVID crisis, we actually continued to invest and increase our investments in R and D and our R and D investments resulted to €105,000,000 in 2020, primarily driven for accelerating investments in electrification, automation and robotics. The large installed base of connected equipment in Hyaban and Kaomar is actually giving us a great insight in terms of the actual activity in our key customer segments and industries as well And this is the data now from the Q4 situation in 2020. As you can see in our primary market areas, where the most of the equipment is actually connected is we are now at the same level as we were before the COVID crisis, both in North American market as well as in Europe as well. Also, at the recent data from this week, we have seen the same trend continuing and despite the quite difficult COVID situation in many of our key markets, we still see the equipment running hours to be at the same level or slightly above of the same level year on year, so pre COVID crisis as such. Market environment obviously changed quite a lot throughout 2020 and overall numbers declined, for example, in global container throughput, but we already started to see the recovery and actually the traffic already increased on Q4. We expect a strong recovery of the global container throughput, where the analyst expectation for the container traffic growth for the 2021 is 8.9 percentage points. Construction activity declined also due to the COVID crisis in our key markets, but we already see a strong recovery happening in Q4 and the market expectations for the construction activity growth for the next year, both in North America as well as in Europe, so quite a strong growth in both markets and that's quite visible in our customer operations already today. The very challenging market conditions in Merchant Marine and the traditional Offshore continued in MacGregor, but the bright spot for us is the increased activity level in offshore wind installations where there are number of interesting projects cooking up and offshore wind farm market is actually expected to quadruple in next few years. As said, we have seen the recovery of the orders. The trend really started in the Q3, especially in September and that strong trend has further accelerated throughout Q4. Especially in high up, the order amount was all time high. We announced today also two military orders, the one with the value of €180,000,000 It's good to remind ourselves that out of that €180,000,000 potential order, we only booked about €24,000,000 into the Q4. If you exclude the two military orders, the high lab order intake still would have been an all time high record with roughly €380,000,000 orders. So we see a very sort of strong recovery happening in the higher key markets. Also, order intake in Kalmar has recovered and this is coming almost solely from the Kalmar mobile equipment part, which is the more profitable part of the business and we did not receive any larger automation orders in Q4, but we clearly see sort of the market activity picking up there as well as we move into 2021. The difficult market conditions in Matrigor were clearly visible in the low order intake in Matrigor throughout Q4. The order book actually grew from the previous quarter and especially, we entered 2021 with about €100,000,000 higher order backlog in High Up compared to one year ago. Also, have seen the order backlog recovering in Kalmar and the order book mix is more favorable for us. The MacGregor difficult market conditions are visible in the MacGregor lower order book. Overall, when I look at the order book, makes me quite confident about our opportunities to improve our operating margin in 2021, whereas when we entered the 2020, about 50% of our order book was in the lower margin automation business and MacGregor, the same number now in our order book is 40%. So 60% of our order book at the moment is coming from high up and more profitable Kalmar mobile equipment business. The recovery continued in sales with improvements in those areas and comparable operating profit obviously also improved. The comparable operating profit was affected by the fact that the low order intake in Hayab and Kalmar Mobile Equipment in Q2 and early part of the Q3 resulted obviously into lower deliveries and less favorable mix for us into Q4. This will somewhat still be visible in our Q1, but now the strong order recovery towards the end of the year will be then visible from the Q2 onwards in our books on that one. Also, as said, very proud of the investments we have done in the services and software and clearly, they have shown their capabilities. The services remained at the high level. The strongest decline was in MacGregor. This is primarily coming from the decline in dry docking activity due to the COVID crisis and then obviously, access for the vessels overall, which sort of lowered our maintenance type of services in there. Only slight decline in Kalmar and Haya primarily coming from lower value added service such as installation and maintenance work, our core services numbers remained at the solid level in all of our businesses and the service gross profit actually improved in 2020 compared to 2019. Also, software sales remained roughly at the same level as last year and services and software now represent 35% of our revenues. The investments we have done and very clearly, we see a stronger and stronger interest towards the Eco efficient production driven by regulation, customers' own sort of sustainability strategies and the outside pressure coming from our customers as well. Some of the examples of the EcoSolutions deals that we reached for last year was 20 hybrid shuttles for the Port Of Virginia in USA, fully electric medium forklift trucks for some of our key customers there and we also launched a number of new products. We had a next generation three wheel drive truck mounted forklift with lithium ion batteries available for our customers. We also introduced a containerized charging solution for our customers in ports and terminals that enables them to use more efficiently the electrified solutions. And as we have said before, Calmag's whole product portfolio will be available in electrified format during this year. The revenue in our Eco Solutions grew nearly 10% in 2020 and represents already 24% of our revenues and as said, we are well ahead of the plans at the moment. The interest clearly for this type of solution is higher than we have expected. We are already ahead of actually targets we have set initially for the next year. I will hand over to my colleague, Mikko, in a second, but overall, very solid performance in difficult conditions last year. I am very happy to see the resiliency of our Services business. It's good to see the interest and the investments we have done in our Eco Solutions bearing fruit and the growth in the revenue in those product services and a very strong order intake in Q4, especially now more profitable services sets us very well for the 2021. With that one, I hand over to Mikko. Thank you, Mika, and good afternoon also from my side. Let's start with Kalmar, where we had quite mixed environment concerning the customer activity. In the mobile equipment like indicated by Micah, we had a very, very good demand. We had nice orders, for example, in applications which go to logistics terminals as well as industrial applications. And we announced also in quarter four a 400 terminal tractors order for a North American customer. On the other hand, the orders for larger cranes were very slow and there we have a good pipeline, no orders were canceled, but the customer activity or investment activity has been unfortunately very slow. Due to this fact, also our order book has declined to EUR842 million. However, looking at the quarter four order book, we already improved from the quarter three levels. Quarter four sales declined by 13%, were EUR411 million and the decline came actually from mobile equipment. And like Nika indicated earlier, this decline is very much attributable to the low quarter two, quarter three order intake, which is now visible in quarter four sales. The automation and project related revenues were actually stable and benefited from the long delivery time of that kind of business. The services declined slightly. The service decline was actually very much coming from the maintenance and project type of services, which require physical presence and that is now impacted by the COVID environment. The spare parts services were actually stable year on year. Calmar profitability declined from EUR44 million to EUR28 million and this is coming from two drivers. The first one is the sales decline and the other one is then more unfavorable sales mix, meaning that we had higher project revenues versus the higher margin smaller equipment revenues in quarter four. Like Hanamaria indicated earlier, we have advanced with the Navis divestment. Navis divestment is expected to complete during the first half. And now at the end of the year, we have also reported Navios Asset held for sale. High up had a particularly strong quarter in many Orders increased very nicely. We had a couple of military orders, roughly €30,000,000 in value in total. Like Mikael already said, those orders are not yet contributing to great extent in quarter one sales, but more visible than in quarter two and later revenues. So now we start the year 2021 with approximately EUR 100,000,000 higher order backlog in High Up, so good start for the year. In High Up, very similarly like in Kalmar, revenues were impacted by the low orders in quarter two and quarter three and that's now visible in quarter four sales. Services sales declined by 5%. Actually within services, the spare parts revenues grew and this service sales decline came from installations and accessories, which are very much linked to new equipment sales. High App's absolute profitability declined to EUR41 million, but when we looked relative profitability, that remained actually on last year's level. The absolute comparable operating profit decline came from revenue decline. And the reason why we have been able to maintain the relative profitability stable is coming from the cost and productivity measures, what we have done throughout the year as well as very successful activities in pricing as well as material cost management. Then in Macregor, the difficult market situation continued. That is very visible in the orders as well as in revenues. Orders declined in all three divisions, merchant, offshore and services as well. Customers are still very much postponing their OpEx and that's also Visible in services. So for example dry dockings have been postponed until the future quarters. Macrecor sales decreased 5%. Actually, the offshore and merchant equipment revenues were stable and sales decline came from services. The comparable operating profit is the kind of bright spot in MacGregor, EUR16 million year on year improvement in profitability. This is very much coming from the successful DTS integration and the related synergy benefits as well as offshore business restructuring. We have had also good project execution, so the projects have been proceeding according to the estimates. During 2020, MacroCore generated EUR20 million cost savings compared to 2019 cost level and then for this year, we are targeting another EUR13 million cost savings. Few highlights about our key financials. If we look first quarter four, despite the 14% sales decline, we were able to maintain the relative profitability on last year's level. This is very much thanks to the cost savings across the whole company in all organizations as well as stable, higher comparable operating profit and a significant improvement in macroecor profitability. Looking at the full year results, orders down by 16% and in these total CargoTech orders, the largest decline in the orders was actually in the automation and project business where I already earlier indicated that customers have been very slow in the investment decisions. The full year comparable operating profit margin declined by 1% unit. Here, the largest factor being the sales decline and then also unfavorable business mix, more project revenues versus revenues coming from smaller equipment sales. Our items affecting comparability were EUR 133,000,000. Here the biggest items are related to the Chinese joint venture reorganization, Macregor, TTS integration and offshore restructuring, those are the biggest items. We can be very satisfied with the cash flow development, very strong cash flow in quarter four. This came to great extent from net working capital reduction. Of course, when the volumes decline also, the net working capital is expected to decline. But we have done also productivity improvements in this area, meaning that our inventory turnovers as well as receivable turnovers have been improving significantly. And the total cash flow for 2020 was EUR297 million against 2019 when it was EUR361 million. Thanks to the good cash flow also, our financial position is very strong and also the liquidity position is very good. Our gearing was 52% at the end of the year and when excluding the IFRS 16 liabilities, 39%. And our target is to maintain the gearing below 50% excluding the IFRS 16 lease liabilities. Total liquidity, $935,000,000. This has improved by €65,000,000 compared to 2019. Looking at our debt maturity profile, very balanced during the next twelve months, we don't have any major debt repayments upcoming. Our dividend proposal to the Annual General Meeting is €1.08 per B share. This represents approximately €70,000,000 in the total dividend payment. The dividend would be paid on 04/01/2021 and the dividend payout excluding the 133,000,000 items affecting comparability would be 78%. And our outlook for 2021, we estimate the comparable operating profit for 2021 to improve from year 2020. And it's also good to note that we are changing our comparable operating profit definition slightly from 01/01/2021. It will be more in line with the comparable operating profit, how we have defined and published that in the prospectus. So in the new comparable operating profit definition, we exclude the so called purchase price amortization effects and those were in $20.20 euros 24,000,000. We will publish the comparable quarterly 2020 numbers restated numbers latest March year so that you can have good comparison numbers. And with those words, I would then hand over back to Anna Maria for questions. Thank you, Micka, and thank you, Micka, the presentation. Like I said, now there is a possibility to ask questions, so handing over to the operator. Thank If you would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star one on your telephone keypad. If you're using a speakerphone, please make sure your mute function is turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment. Again, press star one to ask a question. We'll now pause for a moment to allow everyone a chance to signal for questions. We will now go ahead with our first question. Line is now opened. Please go ahead. Nika and Mikko. Hanan Manes here with UBS. A couple of questions. First, I would like to dig a little bit deeper into the mix there with the calendar. I think based on the order trends we have seen in the past couple of quarters, is it fair to say that we will have a still quite poor mix in Q1 and that it will reverse into the Q2 and in the back end of the year? And to what extent do you think it can reverse? Can you reverse the full sort of adverse impact that you saw in 2020? Thank you for the question. Maybe I'll take it. Yes, absolutely right that the mix was very unfavorable in Q4 due to the low order intake, especially in the mobile equipment in throughout the Q2 and early parts of Q3. And as I said, we only started to see the recovery happening in September onwards and has been so very much the ordering increase that came through in Q4 was driven almost solely by the mobile equipment. So right now, the backlog mix is quite different, but as we have communicated also in the past, it's about six to twelve months lead times for that type of equipment. So that mix favorable mix impact will not be that visible yet in Q1, but will certainly will be more favorable on Q2 onwards. Also, I have to say that we are very disappointed about our performance in the Project and Automation division as well throughout 2020 and we are making measures to make sure that, that business will be more profitable in 2021 as a stand alone basis as well. And going into 2021, how does the mix look compared to when you went into 2019, for example? Well, as I said, on overall Cargodec level, if the MacGregor and the project and automation was about 50% of the order backlog at the beginning of 2020, it's now 40%, so quite a significant shift towards higher band mobile equipment. It now represents 60% of the overall backlog. Okay, got it. Thank you so much. And secondly, could you help us put some color on the quite high one offs in the quarter, what they related to and if there's any efficiency gains improvement related to those costs? Mikko, would you like to take that? Yes. The quarter four one offs were related to basically productivity improvement programs where we expect to have positive cost impact in the coming quarters. Part of that was related to Magrecor where I already indicated that we are looking after EUR13 million cost savings But then there were also productivity actions done in High Up as well as in Kalmar and those will be then visible in the coming quarters. As we said earlier, we are moving from the temporary cost savings into the more structural cost savings and that became very visible in Q4. Our headcount is down by net amount about 1,000 persons compared to the beginning of the year. Furthermore, about 1,500 externals have been taken out. So overall, about 2,500 persons net headcount effect on that one and that obviously then drives some of the restructuring costs as well in Q4. So from temporary to more permanent cost savings and driving a better cost base for the 2021. And then, of course, we continue with certain and then we continue also with certain temporary measures. So for example, traveling is very low at the moment. Will those more permanent measures, will they sort of net out one to one with the 10 points you had this year or should we sort of factor additional savings on top of what we already have seen? I would say that those permanent ones will compensate to a great extent temporary ones, not entirely but to a great extent. Perfect. Thank you. If I can squeeze in one final one here, could you give us some color on how the growth trended there across the regions in Q4 and how Q1 has started? We saw a very strong order recovery in North America, but also in key European markets as well on that one. Maybe slightly more positive in U. S, but both markets showed a strong recovery on that one. And also both in CarMax mobile equipment as well as in High Up, we have seen actually that strong order intake continuing also in the early parts of this year. Excellent. Thank you so much. Thank you. We will now take our next question. Your line is now ahead. Please go sorry, your line is now open. Please go ahead. Good afternoon. It's Arsan from Credit Suisse. Thank you very much for taking my questions. My first question is about margins. Could you please help us quantify the negative mix impact in CALMA in Q4 and maybe on the group level in 2020 overall? Then as a second part of this question, thinking about the 2021 EBIT bridge, could you maybe talk a little bit about the major moving parts, how you see mix reversal of temporary cost savings and cost inflation? That's my first question. Thank you. Such a difficult question that I hand it over to Mikko. Yes. If I start with the Kalmar margin impact, I would say that if we exclude the negative mix and the Kalmar automation and project related unsatisfactory performance, Kalmar comparable operating profit margin would have been on last year's level. So we are talking about couple of percentage points on quarterly level in Kalmar. And what was the second question? The bridge on the 2021. Yes. The second question was could you talk through the moving parts for 2021 EBIT bridge cost inflation, reversal of temporary cost savings, FX and I guess mix? Yes, quite many moving parts there. Of course, I don't have a crystal ball concerning the currency impact. But like I said earlier in the previous question, with this permanent cost savings we are to great extent compensating those temporary cost savings what we generated in 2020. Cost inflation or salary inflation, yes, there is certain salary inflation but that we aim also to compensate with productivity measures. So all in all, I would say that one should look after a favorable cost development continuing next year if you compare that to 2020 level. Okay. Thank you. And my second question is on Fiat margins. Just to check if there were any one off positive one offs in the quarter and how do you see sustainability of that 13.9% margin going into the future? And also specifically on FX, I think your US dollar has been going ahead your against your exposure for a number of quarters already. So should we expect any considerable negative transactional impacts on margins in key up this year? Yes. Thinking the higher quarter four margins, there were no onetime type of items. So it was purely operational performance and of course, much driven also by the good deliveries in quarter four. So no one off items there. Also I would say that the currency impact in 2020 is non negligible, so very small. And in the hiatus business, like we have said also earlier, the U. Dollar euro development plays a certain role. Should the U. S. Dollar euro weaken or U. S. Dollar weaken against euro in 2021, that would have an adverse impact on high up. Depending on fluctuation, it can be a couple of millions of euros. It's good to remember that out of the EU, U. S. Or North American revenues, about 40% of that revenue is created locally by local manufacturing and local services as well. About 60% is coming from the European manufacturing base where we have hedges in place all the time. So, the impact of the dollar is probably not as large, a few million euros as Mick was indicating. Overall, I have to say that it's been a good opportunity with the COVID crisis to show that how much more resilient the business is these days compared to the previous crisis. Despite the fact that we lost 20% on top line, our relative operating profit margin was actually at the same level as it was one year ago. So the higher business model, the investments in services and operational excellence are clearly paying off now. This also gives us obviously a very good basis when we see sort of stronger order intake now to take advantage of the situation moving into the 2021 with the lower cost base. Thank you very much. And last very quick question. On HEAP order intake in Q4, the above €400,000,000 do you think there was some pent up demand from maybe a Q2 weakness or that's largely underlying market demand, which you would be comfortable for us to extrapolate going forward? It was an exceptionally good order intake. As Mikko said, a small part of that one was coming from military orders, but even if you clean out the military orders, that was still about €380,000,000 of orders. There potentially was some pent up demand from the earlier part of the year. Our customer activities overall, we see it from the data and we hear it from our customers is at the high level. The construction activity is at the high level. The e commerce and generally, the logistics are actually doing quite well across the board at the moment and that's driving clearly the demand in that one and many of our customers are actually in high end case have had a very good year in 2020 despite the COVID crisis. And the other good orders came from all divisions, loader cranes, truck mounted, forklifts, demountables, services. So overall, good performance in quarter four. There was some speculation on our side as well that we do price hikes now in higher starting of the 2021 that whether the incoming pricing increases would have also driven the order intake. But actually looking at the orders now for the first five weeks of the year, we have seen the strong development to continue as well. Thank you very much. That's very helpful. Thank you for your time. We will now take our next question. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. Hi. It's Aurelio from Morgan Stanley. Thank you very much for taking my questions, Nico and Nico. I guess my first question is around the margin potential of MacGregor because we've obviously seen, as you mentioned, fourth quarter is now in a row of sequential improvement, and I think it's two quarters now that you are back into profitability. My question is after this $13,000,000 in extra savings, what can we expect in terms of margin development? Because obviously, there's moving parts to which it's done that you're dealing with profit plus you have the operating savings now. So just if you can help us to think about margins in MacGregor going forward and also what could be, in a blue sky scenario, the margin targets for this division? We expect the MacGregor to stay profitable or return to profitability to be precise actually return to profitability in 2021. The margin development is good. We have also seen improvements in our project margins when we have sort of cleaned up some of the poorer project margins we saw in 2019, especially, obviously against the improving cost base and improving margins as we saw the order intake, especially in Q4, was quite soft. So at this stage, I think that what we see is that despite the fact that there is a risk of revenue somewhat revenue decline in 2021 against the 2020, we should maintain the profitability full year for MacGregor. Okay. That's super helpful. And I guess if I look at the performance of your cash flow, especially in 4Q, you've done a very good job in with inventories, especially. And I guess a little bit of that reverses into 2021 as your sales ramp up again. Is that a fair assumption? Or as you mentioned, we have reached a new kind of inventory turnover level that you want to keep at? Generally, if I look at our net working capital efficiency compared to other machinery companies, we usually fare quite well and especially the improvement in the second half of this year has been very good for us and we do plan to keep those ones. The current strong recovery in orders obviously will put a strain to the supply chain again. So, it's been quite a rollercoaster ride in terms of our supply chain with strong decline in Q2, early parts of Q3 and now quite a recovery. Obviously, we need to be able to manage that one then as well. Yes. Thank you very much. And maybe if I can just finally touch on that point a little bit on your supply chain. Are you seeing any kind of issues there in terms of sourcing components and a lot of inflation that you think are not going be able to pass on to your customers? Or is that largely on track? Generally, we have done a very good job in higher band, both in carbon and mobile equipment in terms of pricing. We have sort of put quite a lot of effort in our pricing competencies and those are yielding results. We have seen improving gross margins in our products coming from the sourcing saving and better pricing as well. And it's interesting now to monitor the situation where we still see a strong recovery, how will that then impact component availability and pricing when we move. In terms of the sourcing agreements, we are fairly well hedged to a very large extent already for the 2021 pricing and cost impact from that one. And as I already indicated, we have, for example, done a fairly large extent of pricing increases in high up now in the beginning of 2021 as well, which will be yielding better pricing for this year. Great. That's super helpful. Thanks very much. We will now take our next question. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. Thank you. This is Antti from Danske. Hi. First of all, I think Nico said Navis is an asset held for sale, but did you still book Navis profits and sales into Kalmar? Correct, yes. So Navis has been reported and will be reported more or less as normal in our business area and CargoTech results. In the balance sheet, we have separated it from our asset and liability notes as an asset for sale. So you can see basically a separate note, if I remember correctly, point four in our financial statements later with the Navis related breakdowns. Okay. And is the EBIT separated in that note or do I need to ask that? You need to ask that. Much is EBIT? Navis a good operating profit in quarter four and was actually improving from last year's quarter four. And you don't want to tell how much the EBIT was? We don't disclose the kind of individual businesses operating profits, only the business areas. Okay. Then a broader topic on ship orders and MacGregor demand. I mean, we we have been waiting for many years a turn in ship orders that that hasn't materialized. Is there any change now when you look forward in terms of broader market recovery for Magregor? Well, if we started to clock an estimate and it's anybody's sort of decision how much to put the trust on those ones, they do indicate recovery on the markets in 2021. We do see increased activity, especially in the containership space on that one with a number of interesting projects now or prospects in the line of sight on that one. On the traditional offshore market, we do not see recovery, but then we, as I already indicated, do see number of quite interesting projects in the offshore wind installation and service vessels as well. So that market seems to be progressing quite well. Those would be the bright spots at the moment. Okay. And then finally, on Karl Maran automation and projects business. Now that I think you said throughput is expected to recover by 8% next this year. Would this mean that ports would again start looking into bigger expansions? Or do they already have the capacity? How do you see on that picture? There were capacity constraints actually multiple ports in Q4. The content traffic is expected to grow as well. But I actually see the largest driver for the content and automation projects and not necessarily coming from capacity requirements, but from the cost pressures. The strong consolidation of the shipping lines has put increasing cost pressures for the terminal operators and the automation is the single largest opportunity to actually run more efficient operations. And talking to customer, I think this will be the primary driver for the investments. Last year was obviously very disappointing with no major contracts. We clearly see that margin or that market sort of starting to recover and the number of prospects is activating as well. I think the Konecranes Q4 order was a good example of the investment starting to come back in there. It's still very difficult to estimate the actual timing of the orders, but I'm absolutely confident that we will see a better market and some of the orders coming back during the 2021. We have also not seen any deals disappearing from the sales funnel. So customers are actively working on this. But of course, are very large investments for the customers and in this kind of environment, it's sometimes easier decision to postpone the decision than make the investment decision. Yes. And now that you have divested the Chinese joint venture for manufacturing, how would this impact the margin going forward? Is it a positive or is it a negative compared to the past years for Kalmar? It will be positive, but the kind of extracting ourselves from that one, it was not a cost free option for us. We knew that that's going to be a price to be paid on that one and developing an alternative supply chain that's happening at the moment. It did have a negative impact on our margins in 2020 and unfortunately, that was further enhanced by the fact that because of the COVID, the travel restrictions being there, we were actually instead of using some of our own persons, were forced to use local subcontractors in most of the project implementation. This was clearly a more costly option for us. So the project margins were actually lower than expected on those areas and very clearly the commitments in the automation also require investment from us. That combination of those ones resulted last year into disappointing results in our Automation and Project business. We clearly, obviously, see and are confident that we are able to recover that business by having now sort of building a new supply chain on that one and improving the project margins on that one as well. So we will be recovering from that business, but last year was very painful for that business. And would you finally say that building a new manufacturing value chain or supply chain is not limiting you from taking orders right now because compared with Konecranes, for example, order intake grew more than for Karlomarc. Could it be that this holds you back at the moment? No. I think most of the orders we have seen coming through are now so called repeat orders. That was the case in that one as well. So it's really a question of the timing of the different customers planning for expansion of their current installation and installed base as well. So it has no bearing on the supply chain. We are able to actually deliver from the existing and also from the new built supply chains. This actually the developing supply chain gives us more flexibility now going in the future to be able to actually then deliver from the multiple different locations depending where the projects are executed. So that had no bearing. It's just a question of the different timing from the customer decisions. Okay. Thank you. That's We will now take our next question. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. Yes. Hi. It's Antti from SEB. First question is kind of regarding the supply chain and especially on kind of Hyab and Kalmar going into 2021. I mean, I'm sure you can push through input cost inflation via price increases, but if I take a look back a few years ago, it was also about availability, which caused kind of delays on the production side. And is there any risk that now we're seeing a lot of industries ramping up up at the same time and it's a bit of a messy supply chain overall globally? So are you preparing for some ways into potential supply concerns in the midyear? Yes. It's a good question. And obviously, we have taken lessons learned from the 1738 situation and obviously, our operational capabilities and our quality in terms of managing that has improved, but it certainly is a concern in terms of the overall supply chain capability to ramp up. But I think from our own pure operations point of view, I think we set in a much stronger position than we were at that time. And you are not currently seeing any of this yet in Yes, seeing it yet. But as I said, the recovery has been very strong at this stage, and that's something I certainly we will keep our eye on. Okay. And then secondly, if we look at the kind of the temporary cost savings in 2020 and the divisional profitability, it's kind of which units were the most benefited by the savings? And now when we move to more structural savings in 2021, would it be fair to assume that those are mainly on the project side, Palmar, automation and MacGregor? Yes. Well, first of all, on MacGregor side, as we indicated, we expect the full year to be profitable on that one. The cost basis is slower moving into this year as well. So we will we are confident on the improving profitability in MacGregor. We will improve our profitability in the project and automation as well. It was a very harsh year last year with extra cost coming from multiple sources. But the best opportunities I actually still see in higher band and mobile equipment coming really from the increasing order backlog and the current demand situation. And that's combined with the cost efficiency measures we have taken last year, it sets us very in very good position in 2021. Okay. And is there any way to kind of quantify how the attempt savings kind of were visible in 2020 profitabilities of different business units? Well, from the temporary cost savings, we have said that the savings have been approximately EUR 10,000,000 per month starting from April onwards and those were lasting until September, October. Also today, as we speak, we have still temporary cost savings in place, which will continue until further notice. And like I said, very large portion of these temporary cost savings we have also converted into permanent cost savings, which will be then visible in our 2021 financial statements. Okay. And then lastly from me regarding kind of the eco efficient sales, especially on Kalmar and rollout of the electric fleet or electric product offering. Are you having kind of a larger discussion with the same clients of introducing automation at the same time as well? Or is it only about kind of buying certain individual electric vehicles? Or how does the discussions have went recently? Excellent question. It does come up. Actually, you electrify, it's easier to automate as well. In certain product categories, especially, say, in terminals, that option is there and we are investing quite heavily to improve our we have first sort of trials going on into smaller equipment, fully automated or partial automated smaller equipment that is also electrified and that's an interesting area. Certain segments are because the operating environment is not particularly stable with a lot of moving parts, that's not very realistic in the short time being. But certain sub segments, certainly, the automation comes up as a potential interest. But I would say that we will we are now seeing already a strong sort of demand increase and interest increase toward electrified vehicles and a more curiosity about automation in there where we have first customer trials running. But I think we will first see the uptake now as we have seen in electrified solution and that most likely will be followed later on with the more automated solutions as well. All right. Thanks. That's all from me. Thank you. We will now take our next question. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. Thank you for taking my follow-up questions. It's Artem from Credit Suisse. Just on Navis, could you maybe update us on where are you in the disposal process and whether there is any whether any cutoff dates in the option which you are running? The interest on Donavis has been very high. We have a number of potential buying candidates that are now engaged discussions with Navis. And as we have indicated earlier, we expect to close the deal during the first half of this year. Thank you. And with disposal of Navis, do you see scope to reduce R and D spending as a percentage of revenue? Or you would require to step up R and D for electrification or any other product? We are looking at stepping up the electrification and also the robotization or automation of smaller equipment. So obviously, the Navi's R and D being softer is particularly high. So it will reduce the my sense would be that we will have if the Navi's if you take Navi's R and D cost out and then you look at the planned increases in other areas of R and D, our overall R and D cost will go somewhat down in 2021 depending, of course, or if you would take the Navi's out from the whole year. Right. Thank you very much. And my last question is around cash flow and working capital. Could you help us with what we expect or what we should expect for working capital in 2021? If we look our kind of operative working capital, meaning inventories, receivables, minus advances and minus accounts payables, that has been in the range of 17%, 18% of annual sales. And it depends a bit on the business mix what kind of increase, for example, we would see. If there would be a steep increase in services and some equipment business that might require in the beginning certain additions in the net working capital. On the other hand, if we get for example automation or Macrec or automation and project orders with advanced payments or MacRecord orders with advanced payments, that would then decrease the net working capital. But I would say that if you take our, let's say, last year's second half or the full year net working capital kind of average it for the full year, that could be used as a rough proxy for the future. As said, we have done productivity of process improvements in inventory management, in receivables management that will contribute into future working capital development. But there are certain businesses like services, which require certain working capital. And when that increases, then also the absolute working capital increases. Thank you. It appears that there are no further questions at this time. I'd like to turn the conference back to the speakers for any additional or closing remarks. Thank you for great questions, and thank you for good answers. Q1 report will be published on April 28, so looking forward to see you then. Stay safe and healthy. Thank you. Thank you.