Okay, it's now 10:30 A.M., so it's time to start Hiab's Third Quarter Pre-Silent Call. I will be recording the call, so it will be available afterwards as a recording as well. Before we start, Mikko will first go through a short presentation on the second quarter recap, and then all the announcements we have made in the third quarter. After that, we will have time for a Q&A. With that, over to you, Mikko.
Thank you, Aki, and good morning. Good morning also from my side. In this presentation, I will cover a bit about all the development in the first half of this year, kind of recap on quarter two, also the financial performance, operating profit, a bit market developments about our outlook, which we specified in connection of the quarter two results announcement, and then the impacts of the MacGregor divestment, which took place on 31st ofJuly. If we start with the order intake, which has been on a stable level since quarter four, 2022, 11 quarters in a row, when it has been around EUR 370-380 million, quite typically. If we look at our rolling 12-month order intake development, it has been on the level of EUR 1.5 billion. The year-on-year improvement in the quarter two order intake was very much characterized by the U.S. key account orders.
Without those orders, basically, our quarter two order intake would have been flat. Our order book was EUR 556 million at the end of June, 18% down from the previous year. We have quite a mixed picture if we look at geographical regions. EMEA has been recovering, like we have also said earlier. Earlier, we have started to see an improvement in EMEA since quarter four last year. Unfortunately, in Americas, it's very much driven by the U.S. markets. The first six months, as you can see here, the order intake has been down by 5%. This is very much driven by the trade tensions, the constantly changing tariff landscape, and customers' uncertainty in investment decision-making. Especially smaller customers who might have less financial or financing power are especially very cautious about their investment decisions. Also in the bigger customers, in some cases, in a kind of wait-and-see mode.
In Europe, we have seen a positive momentum, especially in the defense area. Also some of the markets like Germany, which has been down for already for some time, is gradually showing the signs of improvements. Even in Germany, we are still very much lower than a couple of years ago. If we look at our sales development, €402 million in quarter two and first half, EUR 840 million. In the first half, we are still 4% down compared to previous year due to the fact that we have been still consuming, especially in 2024, we were consuming the kind of COVID order book. As you recall from the previous page, our order intake has been fairly flat, so consuming the order book.
The positive development has been the service revenues, especially that the service growth has been coming, service revenues growth has been coming from the recurring services, so spare parts and maintenance contracts, which are the kind of foundation also for our longer-term service growth ambitions. They're going to the right direction. Again, looking from the geographical perspective, EMEA down by 4% in the first half in sales, Americas down by 3%. We started to see already in quarter two the lower order intake as a result of the lower order intake sales decline in Americas. We anticipate also that for the second half, Americas order revenues will be impacted by the weak first half order intake. APAC was down by 10% in the first half as well in sales.
When we look at the comparable operating profit, despite the decline in our sales, we have been able to maintain the comparable operating profit on last year's level, EUR 60 million in quarter two, 15%. If we look at the first half, EUR 126 million, 15.5%. Here, basically, the main contributor has been the supply chain actions, those actions that we have been putting in place in 2024. Those actions are now visible in our finance house. Typically, the supply chain actions have a six to 12 months lead time. We have been benefiting those actions now in the first half of this year. Also, very strong return on capital employed, 30.4%. This is very much thanks to our asset-light operating model. For example, we have been able to reduce networking capital like accounts receivables and inventories, supporting also the return on capital employed.
We announced the MacGregor divestment closure on the 31st of July. We also received on the 31st of July the sales price, roughly EUR 225 million. Our Board of Directors made the decision this week's Monday to distribute an additional dividend of EUR 100 million. This is EUR 1.57 per B-share. The dividend would be paid on the 9th of October. This dividend was already communicated in connection of our Annual General Meeting, but it was subject to MacGregor closure. Now that the closure has taken place, also the dividend will be paid out. In case you want to model the MacGregor impact on our balance sheet as of the end of June, this page tries to illustrate that you need to add to cash and cash equivalents, which were EUR 341 million. You would need to add EUR 225 million as a result of MacGregor purchase price.
You need to take out from the total higher balance sheet the assets held for sale, EUR 818 million as of the end of June, as well as the liabilities, which were roughly EUR 601 million at the end of June. These MacGregor assets and liabilities have been reported as a separate line already for some time. The above lines are basically reflecting Hiab only. Also, for the dividend, that EUR 100 million will be leaving our equity. It will be booked already now for quarter three as the decision was made at the end of September. The cash out, however, for the dividend, as mentioned already earlier, will happen in quarter four. A couple of announcements in our organization. Jenny McGeough, has been appointed as Head of Golfab's Heavy and Super Heavy. She starts with the company on November 1, 2025. Kimberly Allan will be heading our Business Excellence.
She has a long experience with lean and Six Sigma and operational developments. This is a crucial role also for us if we think about our long-term strategy and ambition to generate 1.5% productivity improvement on an annual basis, coming from our Sales Excellence, Sourcing Excellence, as well as from Manufacturing Excellence. We have also announced during the quarter the partnership with Forterra related to the autonomous vehicle technology. For example, at the moment, our customers are struggling with labor shortage, driver shortage. They might have a good truck driver, but those drivers might not be the best users or operators of cranes or demountable solutions. With the automated solutions, we can help our customers to mitigate some of these labor shortage topics by automating certain lifting or delivery activities.
Last, we specified our earlier outlook in connection with our quarter two results announcement and lifted the floor level of our comparable operating profit for this year from the previous 12.0% to above 13.5%.
Thank you, Mikko. With that, we open for a Q&A. As a reminder, please use the raise your hand function to state a question, and we will also be taking questions from the telephone lines. We had the first eager hand up from [Antti Karsinen]. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks. Just a couple of things regarding, let's start with the order intake. I remember last year we were talking about that, if I remember correctly, there was a bit of a postponement from second to third quarter in terms of some of the orders. Could you remind geographically, was this in the U.S. or some other regions where we saw this phenomenon?
If I recall correctly, those were in the U.S. region, yes.
Okay, if we think about comparisons on second quarter this year, there's the big orders, and then last year's Q3, there was a bit of extraordinary high level as well.
Correct, yes. Yeah. That's why you saw the 50% increase in the second quarter order intake in the U.S.
Yeah, okay. If we think about Europe, I mean, it's recovering, I guess, from a bit of a low base, but Q3 tends to be seasonally a bit slower, if I remember.
Correct. Basically, 90% of our revenues are coming from the northern hemisphere, where our customers are often on holidays during or between July, August, and September. We have less order intake, as well as sometimes also the customers will take a bit less deliveries during that time. That's why quarter three has been typically one of the weakest quarters of the year.
Yeah, okay. I mean, some companies are maybe flagging that because the demand is recovering, maybe we don't see as much seasonality this year. Kind of a bit of slowness, but not as much as normally. Would you kind of agree or disagree on this?
I would say that in Europe, the seasonality pattern has been quite normal. In the U.S. or Americas in general, we continue to see the cautiousness of the customers in the decision-making due to the trade tensions.
Okay. The last one for me is the tariff situation, especially regarding the steel and aluminum content. What type of an impact does that have on your business in the U.S., both from kind of export and supply chain perspective?
In general, roughly half of our U.S. revenues are assembled in the U.S., and the other half is imported, be that they're already products or components. Basically, what we have done already since February this year, we have introduced a so-called tariff surcharge, where we have fully reflected the prevailing tariff level in the product price or even in spare parts price, because in some of our or many spare parts include steel. All those tariff impacts, be that the reciprocal tariff or the steel tariff, have been reflected in prices at the moment.
Is there any kind of a ballpark figure that we should think about on U.S. spare parts or equipment sold in the U.S., how much the surcharge, let's say, currently is on a percentage of something?
It varies from product to product, but I would say that in the ballpark of 10%- 20% is the surcharge compared to pricing in January this year.
All right. Thank you.
Thank you, [Antt]i. I don't see any hands up at the moment. Before taking your question, Tom, are there any questions from the telephone lines? I hear silence. Tom, please go ahead.
Yes, hi, this is Tom from DNB Carnegie. I just wonder, perhaps a bit of a stupid question, but with these tariff surcharges, the orders and the sales numbers you report, they will now include these surcharges. When you talk about weak demand in the U.S., do you talk about volumes or the value? Because now the value is greatly inflated by these tariffs.
When I talk about weak demand, it's basically, of course, it's all. It's the overall customer activity, the volume, so units, and then also the value, because customers are exceptionally cautious in the U.S. They have been in quarter two, partially already in quarter one, and that similar behavior has continued in quarter three.
Are they trading down to cheaper products also?
They are withholding basically all investment. They are not looking for cheaper products, or they don't necessarily have even local alternatives, kind of tariff-free alternatives. What we typically see is that the customers are extending the truck lifetime, asking, for example, extensions from the leasing company for the leasing contract.
Yeah, but then we have the tariffs on trucks. It's perhaps even more important than tariffs on your product, because from a customer point of view, the truck is the bigger total cost. Can you give an update? There seems to be news out all the time on the tariffs on trucks. What is your best understanding at the moment? What are a U.S.-based customer paying in terms of tariffs for trucks made in Mexico, etc.?
Yeah, those, I mean, also in the truck manufacturing, these steel tariffs have been hitting the truck manufacturers, and very similar kind of increases we have seen from the truck manufacturers' sides, what they have been announcing in the markets. Also, the truck manufacturing volumes have been coming down in the U.S. due to the fact that customers are investing less.
Can you remind us about the long-term correlation in your business, both in the U.S. and Europe, in terms of correlation just to total truck orders and what you are looking at? Are you looking at delivery trucks more or?
Yeah, we are looking more at the delivery trucks. For example, in the U.S., there is, of course, a high volume of these long-haul trucks, and this is not the business where we are in. We are in these kind of trucks, what you can see on this slide here, which are doing some hundreds of kilometers per day, and typically in the kind of larger cities, lifting or delivering different kinds of products and goods.
Finally, about your M&A ambition. Now the MacGregor divestment has been finalized. Are you now, seeing this situation, especially in the US, as an opportunity to buy? Are you really activating now when MacGregor is history?
Yeah, even before the MacGregor divestment or kind of separation, we have been actively building the M&A pipeline. Like you said, until we have done the MacGregor IT separation, i.e., that being end of July, our hands have been a bit bound to do M&As where we would do integration activities. Now we have free hands in that area. We have extremely strong balance sheet. We have M&A cases in the pipeline. In some of the areas, I would say that we have been a bit disappointed in the speed, not necessarily because of us, but because of the seller's side. I would say the biggest or the most kind of usual suspect regions in our case would be North America, South America, and EMEA. Basically, those markets where we generate roughly 90% currently of our revenues.
We are not necessarily very much seeing M&A opportunities in those kind of APAC areas. It's mainly on those main markets where we operate. Locally operating companies could be EUR 50 million, EUR 150 million type of revenues, well-known local brands.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you, Tom. Next in the line is [Mikko]. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Thanks for hosting the call. Just a couple of questions. Firstly, coming back to the tariffs, I'm just wondering, given the fact that the demand is obviously quite weak in the U.S. now, are you able to actually fully implement the price increases? Is the first question also related to that? How are your North American competitors reacting to this now? Are they also raising the pricing to some extent, or are they trying to gain more volumes given the situation for you and perhaps Palfinger in particular?
Yeah, I mean, our principle has been that we are not able to take any of these tariffs in our books. We have been moving that in fully in these surcharges. It's the question that is customer willing to invest at this price level or not. What we have seen from the competition, some of the competitors have been increasing prices even more than us. It depends very much on what kind of supply chain they have. We are using, as mentioned already earlier, also local suppliers, which are not within the tariffs. Some components coming from Mexico under the USMCA, also tariff-free. There are components which come from outside the U.S., where then those are under the tariffs, be that reciprocal tariff or the steel tariff. Those kind of additional tariff costs we have reflected in the product price.
Of course, we also continuously want to mitigate as much as possible the tariff impact. We are looking to expand our local sourcing alternatives. We are also looking at alternatives how to reflect only the steel content of the products in the tariff calculation in order to make the life as easy for our customers as possible.
Right. Right. We shouldn't be concerned about you taking any margin hit from these tariffs. The price increases you mentioned, I guess, I assume that covers the overall EU tariff as well as the steel, 10%- 15% you mentioned. Should we assume that that's enough, so to say, and we won't see any impact on your margin from this?
Yeah. We don't put our margin on the tariffs. We are just reflecting the tariff-related cost in pricing. There can be a small impact due to the fact that if the tariff is 100, we are not putting our profit margin on the tariff. Otherwise, I would say that the biggest kind of headwind we see is this uncertainty about the tariff landscape and the customer's hesitation to make investment decisions.
Okay. On that point, you mentioned leasing, right? Some of your customers in the U.S., they don't want to replace the equipment. They rather extend the leasing. I remember when we discussed this leasing dynamics, I think was it in the spring or early summer last time? I think back then you mentioned that, I mean, there are a lot of customers that have already extended the leases, and the lease companies don't accept anything anymore, which means that that will, you know, lead to renewal or replacement demand and second-hand resale for you guys. Where are we on that one? Because now it sounds like it's perhaps not really happening yet. Is it more a story of about 2026, 2027, or are you seeing, you know, any kind of tailwinds from this theme anywhere in the world right now?
We see continuously customers in some numbers where the leasing company has said that they are not willing to extend the lease contract anymore because the leasing company makes the money with the residual value. I don't expect that it's going to be a kind of wave because our customers, there is an installed base of 350,000 equipment in the market, and customers have been doing their leasing contracts in different years. Of course, the longer the customers extend, they might extend it by one year, by two years, but then there is the end with the leasing company, as, like I said, the leasing companies make the money with the residual value as well.
Okay, thank you very much.
It is not so that all customers have stopped investing in the U.S., but definitely the activity level has been lower during this year, year to date, compared to, for example, last year.
Maybe just to follow up on that last comment. Given the steel tariffs now, which means that you need to further increase your surcharge, has this had any incrementally negative impact on demand in the US the way you see it or not?
Not really. Not really.
Right. Okay. That's clear. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mikko. Next is a follow-up from [Antti]. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks. I wanted to come back to the same topic on the profitability side. I mean, U.S. volumes are coming down, and then on gross margins, slight negative impact on the tariff side. Is there anything regarding product mix or just regional profitability that you wanted to flag? If you look at kind of the margins that you've been doing in the U.S. in the past couple of years versus the rest of the world, is there something that stands out that we should be kind of wary of if the U.S. is less of your sales in the next 12 months than before?
In the U.S., we have had, of course, so far, most of the revenues coming from the direct route to market. We have been changing that gradually. We implemented seven new dealers in the U.S. last year and continue to do that this year as well. That will slightly change the dynamics of the U.S. market versus what it has been in the past. I would say that's a smaller nuisance because we intend to grow the top line and leverage the U.S. cost base, overhead cost base, with the higher volume through the dealers. I would say in the near term, at least, the main impact for our financials is coming from the U.S. order intake and the U.S. top line.
I'm just thinking, if you look at the product groups where demand is recovering, led by Europe, versus the product groups that are declining because of the U.S., is there any difference on the product margin or the gross margin, what you are selling, that we should take into account?
Not in a significant manner. No, it's more the, let's say, it's the top line impact.
Okay. The second follow-up was on the service margins, quite good on the first half. Is there, I was thinking about kind of the U.S. kind of a spare parts business. Was there any kind of a pre-buying ahead of any tariffs? Was there anything that we should take into account? How should we think about the service margin expansion progression in the second half and into next year?
Yeah, our service growth had been coming to a great extent from spare parts and maintenance services. These kind of recurring services have the best margins versus installations, which are a bit lower from the margin. I would say that in services, we have had good traction, and at least so far, I have not seen any reason why the service margin should be very, very different from what you have seen in the past.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you, [Antti]. Do we have any final questions?
Maybe I can follow up with one question if it's okay.
Yeah, please go ahead.
It's Andreas Koski from BNP Paribas. Just on the surcharges, you mentioned earlier that they can be 10%- 20% compared to the pricing in January this year. Should we think about those levels or 50% of the U.S. business or the total U.S. price increase related to surcharge between 5%- 10%? What will the total U.S. price component be for you to offset the tariffs as they are today?
The line was broken a bit, but let's assume that the product cost would have been $100 or product price would have been $100 in January. Now, depending a bit on the product, it will be today $110 or $120. Yeah.
What does that mean for your total U.S. business in terms of a price component? Should we expect pricing to contribute, say, 5% or 10% points to your organic growth in the third quarter because of the surcharges?
I don't have that kind of number yet. We need to come back to that. If the volumes would be the same this year, quarter three, compared to quarter three last year, then I would say that it would be this 10%- 20% pricing impact then.
Okay. That is for the full U.S. business. I was thinking that you only imported half of your sold and then you assembled half of the U.S. business. I didn't think that all of your U.S. business would be impacted by those 10%- 20%. Okay. I guess it would be a very subtle component in the third quarter.
Even some U.S. assembly products are impacted because some of the components are coming from outside the U.S. The U.S. is not self-sufficient in all electronics or hydraulic components.
Even if we would like to source them from the U.S., it might not be possible because there are not suppliers in the U.S.
Understood. Thank you very much.
Thanks, Andreas. Next, Tom, please go ahead.
Yes, I just wonder, you know, you have earlier said that you have more U.S.-based production than your competitors. Are there kind of pricing opportunities in some certain products where competitors are forced to raise prices and you can just follow the market price up and have a more U.S.-based kind of cost structure?
Of course, we can't do the pricing completely in isolation, but I would say that we are, in many cases, better positioned than many of our competitors. If we look at the U.S. competitive landscape, there are very few local competitors. We typically face European companies, perhaps in tail lifts. What you see here, there is a U.S. company called Maxon, but otherwise, in the other product categories, the competition is typically a European player. Any of our European competitors do not necessarily have, first of all, U.S. assembly operations or as advanced U.S. local component sourcing.
The surcharge is the way to transparently mitigate the tariff increase, not to increase prices for the customers, even if the competition would have higher prices.
Yeah, we have been very open with the customers, saying that this surcharge lives according to the current tariff landscape. If the tariffs will disappear, also this surcharge will disappear.
This is quite interesting because in the demountables and truck mounted forklifts where you have more U.S.-based production, you have perhaps a chance to gain market share. You are now utilizing this situation to gain market shares rather than to improve the gross margin short term. Is that how to understand this? If the competitors have to raise prices now, you know, up to 20%, basically.
This has been also originally our target in the U.S. to grow the market share. That has been one of the, let's say, foundations of the U.S. growth strategy through the dealers to cover those white spaces and leverage basically then with the higher volumes, the existing overhead cost base in the U.S.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you, Tom. [Mikko], please go ahead.
Yeah, just briefly to follow up on the service side of the business. There was some question, my line was breaking up a bit, something about the margin on the service side. In terms of demand overall on the service side, how would you describe that currently across your main regions in the U.S. and Europe? How is it holding up? Any color on that would be appreciated.
Yeah, in services, we have seen stable development. That is, of course, the nature of also the service business. As long as our customers are using the equipment, then they need regular maintenance and the spare parts. What we have seen, not as a new phenomenon in the U.S., but also already when the tariffs were introduced, is that customers are not necessarily holding large service spare parts stocks. It is quite natural if you have tariffs in the spare parts, you may not want to tie up lots of spare parts inventory or money in the spare parts inventory. If they have earlier held some spare parts stocks, now they have been possibly first consuming those safety stocks and then ordering spare parts when they need spare parts.
All right. If it's fair to assume that, you know, you say a stable development, should we still expect service to continue to grow into the second half?
Yeah, we have not seen adverse developments in services. Overall, the utilization rates, for example, in Europe have been on a good level, and customers have required regular maintenance and spare parts. We have been also increasing the number of our service contracts, capturing a bigger portion of the installed base from the service perspective. Service is developing well.
Okay, thank you very much.
Thank you, [Mikko]. I don't see any further hands up, so it's time to thank for the call. We will publish our third quarter results in three weeks and one day, 23rd of October. See you then.
Thank you.
Thank you.