Hi. Good morning, everybody, and and welcome to Theravestala's Q3 result call and webcast. As usual, our CEO, Vilejo and our CFO, Ilklaude will present the results, in a brief manner, and and we follow that with a Q and a. We'll take questions from the phone lines as as well as through the webcast after the presentations. Without further ado, I'll give over to Vilde on the results.
Thank you, Coty, and good morning, from my behalf. It is actually a great pleasure today to present our Q3 results there are a lot of positives and a lot of, things that we can take pride from in inside terabytes, Stella. We returned to growth as the headline says and at the same time, we improved our profitability. Key headlines and takeaways from Q3 presented here. Growth, of course, in this very difficult and changing circumstances, very good achievement.
It's driven by, nice sales mix, partly by, active COVID testing and our ability to scale up our testing capability and capacity. And, margins, partly by also very, very strict cost control. Asset, the, demand and the market was still highly, fluctuating And actually the, agility remained as a key, for managing the organization during Q3. Q2 was a scale down exercise with protecting our margins. Q3 was a scale up exercise in taking the most out of the, new opportunities that were presented by market to us.
Digital, digital, demand, still grew, and we are very much in that game. We'll come back to that very, very important topic. And, all in all, Thervest as an organization and team performed extremely well in this very, very difficult circumstance. If we take a look at the, payer group level, where does the grow growth come from? All in all, the revenue, was $240,000,000 during Q3, and revenue grew almost across the board, in in corporates segment, almost 5% in a private payer group almost 10%, which is a very, very good progress in that specific group.
In public domain, a little bit mixed back staffing revenue, slightly declined, as well as, as well as the outsourcing revenue. But then services, were very much high and up from, or year on year. Q3 revenue, breakdown here, asset, growth driven by very much by, private and corporate payer groups, and COVID nineteen testing, and that was also boosting the service sales in inside a public, public payer group. We have been, sort of underlying throughout the COVID-nineteen, season or era or crisis, however you want to call it, our adaptability and our ability to react to changing changing environment. And, as I already said, that has been a key point for us during Q3 as well.
Q2, as I said, was a good performance from the organization From the point of view that, in, in, very sort of pressing, circumstances and lowering demand, we were able to protect our margins with very strict cost control and adjustment measures. That was well done by the organization. In the last quarter, reporting, I, I, sort of, used, reference to boxing mats, Q2 was the 1st round. We, sort of, stood up and we were winning already during the 1st round. Q3 was the 2nd round and we are still winning.
Different type of round, but, but very much still still winning. Looking forward, the market is very difficult to forecast. Of course, everybody is following the, COVID-nineteen crisis development and how the pandemic is progressing. Finland is at the moment doing fine. A society is open.
The testing activity is a very big part of that one, and we play play a big part in in in testing activity we are providing some 10% of our nationwide testing as we speak. And, and, even, and we are the bulk of, corporate testing, keeping the, the finished companies, active and open. COVID nineteen, pandemic progress still difficult to forecast and utility remains a key for, for us going forward. But I, I think we have, proved last fall that we can react to to, dimmer being down we can react, demand being up and, and sales mix, shifts in, in very rapid and agile manner. And that's going to be the key, going forward as well.
We are building, sort of, assets that we can not yet book in into a balance sheet as we go. Even during the crisis, we are now very proud, that we are able to, report nice result, higher margins, higher, higher revenue at the same time, equal importance is is that customers are trusting us more than ever. So NPS still record high very different levels than, for example, last year at the same time, over 80% for over 80 for our appointments, which is, record high level. Equally important, which is not not shown here, is, is that our employee NPS is developing very nicely. I was slightly worried that since we have been, we have been, pushing very hard and we have been doing adjustments.
We are do we have been doing temporary layoffs and people have been working their their butt out in our network in, scaling up, for example, the testing capability and reacting to new demand profile still our e NPS employee satisfaction is up from Spring. It's up from last year's level. It's developing nicely, and that's great. That's that's a very, very good, sort of, proof of of the trust inside the company that that we doing right things, and and the team team, is is there together to perform. Another thing, another indicator that service during Q3 is that that our brand preference.
Is a record high. It's developing nicely. We are the most preferred branding in this branch, in this industry. And the gap against our competitors is growing nicely. So even that one, because that's that's typically the the best, forecast for for future market share.
That's that's very important that we are doing nice progress in in that field as well. So very, very, many positive things, digital, we'll we'll discuss in in detail, in in just a while. In our internal webcast, I used a lot of time to, thank thank the organizers and to thank Therabas Tele team. Q2 and Q3, they have been both, proof of our capabilities, our, our, sort of, commitment to to serve customers in whatever circumstances through whatever channel, is is needed. Free examples here, starting from from the, right hand side, finnterwestala, cooperation, Just one example of our capability of serving serving our customers in his sort of very retail, detailed, and dedicated manner we have built, our testing, platform inside fitness booking cycle making that digital booking, flow, convenient and and as smooth for customers, for traveling customers.
Just one example, we were able to build that very, very fast and, and, and in, in, in very, very agile and responsive manner to, to thin Then, overall, response time times in our services and smoothness of our services. I can share a personal example because I first time tested the COVID-nineteen, sort of, processes 2 days ago, I I I got a slight sort of symptoms of of flu. I thought that, this is going to be, very important week for us. So so it's it's better to take COVID 19 test right away. It was, 20 past 5.
I started, started, getting a doctor's referral to, to, COVID nineteen tests, 10 to 6, I was already out from the test. 2 hours after that one, I got the result from rapid test 12 hours. After that one, I got the final, PCR test result, of course, negative. And that's that's why I'm here presenting today, but very small digital flow and, very quick response time, excellent, excellent service, during during that, process as as well. Then my favorite part, in in in this slide, and, sort of proof of, terrorist dollar team, persevere and so on, as as we call it in Finland.
I, 2 weeks ago, I, I, visited, this is from Say Naoki, one of our units when we say that we need to build, testing capabilities, for example, in this case, driving lanes for our customers, our people in, in, in, in the units, they don't wait. They don't wait for, for so nice signs or or attempts or or, whatnot they they start doing. They start building they go to local hardware store, they they buy tents. They they they have nails and hammers. They build it and, and, and, in matter of hours, we we have the testing, testing capabilities built up in, in, in, in, in, in our reaches.
And that's one of the great strengths. We talk what about digital and our capabilities in that front, but equally important is is sort of terrorist of spirit, our ability, net nationwide to react very fast. When when there's a get go, people, they, they perform, and and they, they deliver. Talking about digital, as we discussed in in our CMD earlier, this is a trend. It's it's not going to cope anywhere in the future Digital appointments are here to stay.
We have, now clocked half a 1,000,000 visits during the year, during during October, and, and, it's, it's growing rapidly. Already 15% of our corporate appointments are digital. And, that's I I I would say it's a it's a proof of of the sort of, urability, of that, that service mode. And this has been COVID nineteen with all the, all the sort of burden on the organization. It has been a great sort of test and exercise for the company like Teradata to go truly into to omnichannel world and on on omnichannel processes.
And I, I think we are, we we are doing fine. We are, we are leading back here, as I said, in, in, in CMD early. We have emphasized throughout the crisis, the, importance of of agility. That remains a key topic, going forward. Of course, we are doing our, plans for for next year.
We are planning, we are budgeting. We are building our must win battles based based on our strategy, but, we need to be, conscious of the fact that nobody can still, predict and forecast COVID 19 pandemic, progress And hence, we, we need to be ready to make moves. We, we were ready to make moves during Q2, we were able to make more during Q3, and we will be ready to make moves going forward as well. And with that one over to CFO, Ilklaude.
So good morning on on my behalf as well and and, like, usually, then we will take the also look on the numbers. Starting from the top line and and profitability development, Lite Ville already mentioned, the the development in in Q3 was was very acute, actually. We actually, made a record high on, on, on, on q q3 sales wise, as well as in EBITDA profitability. As you can see, the EBIT to absolute EBITDA is it was that close to 30, 31,000,000 and the relative EBITA margin 12.9, which is clearly higher than than during, the, the the period that we have been listed so far. So, on a quarter on a comparable quarter to quarter basis, we have all to all years since 2017 been able to increase, both the relative margin and the absolute amount of the EBITDA.
And I mean, the following slide, we slides, we will take a closer look on on on that, that where it actually derives from, during this quarter. So if you take a closer look on the cost structure, again, you can see that if the top line has increased at 2.6%, pointing that, that the, the private was, was up that close to 9% and the corporate up by 0.5% in which, we have that, operating leverage, working, and and the scalability and, and, for the public business, we had a slight decline in those areas, which are not operated within our network. Also in staffing and in outsourcing. The public business, which is, operated in the network, the occupational health care, and and, the service sales that was also up sort of emphasizing the the operating leverage of the business. But on the cost structure, you can see that the purchase of the material has increased at 8.3%.
Obviously, the reason for that is the the PPE, procurement, the the situation, the global situation, and the and the sourcing capabilities when it comes that the face mask has more or less normalized enterprises have came down, but but there's, in these kind of situations, you have to be cautious with with with with those gearings and and, and, you always have some kind of bottlenecks and and beat it in the the rubber clothes and and in the future. If you consider that in globally, globally, we would have to keep vaccination for, for billions of people, it might sort of, have some disturbances for the for the sourcing and, and therefore, we need to be need to be cautious and and and and careful when when, purchasing materials for the operations. But but so far we have been successful it and we have been prepared it, carefully and and and, and we haven't had any any sort of, scarce scarce resources when it comes to the, any any protective hearings or any any other sort of health supplies. Employee benefit ex expenses also declined slightly, reasons for that that we we still had towels temporary layoffs during, July.
And at the beginning of of August, the second reason for that is that we are having here in Finland to temporary, pension cost reduction up until end of this year. The the impact for this quarter is 1,500,000 roughly relating to that. And the third reason is that that as we have been, very cautious and trying to be agile, and and and try to be tight when it comes to the costs. We happen also postponed, some of the recruitment recruitment both within the network as well as here, within the the group functions. Then if we take a look at the the IT expenses still continuing to to increase like like during earlier quarters, And obvious reason for that is that as the digital sort of digital network increases, the number of the laptops and the PCs increases, the remote working increases, and we are developing all the time new kinds of applications etcetera, etcetera, that will also have, obviously, will also have an impact for the IT expenses, which continue increase also in the times like this.
Other operating expenses declined by almost 20% as an evidence of our tight sort of cost control, we have been able to to decline some of the expenses but but most of those, we have been sort of cut the budgets and and postponed some of the some of the cost line items. Not making any any sort of, permanent, cost reductions. From the policy perspective, highlighting, to to sort of the key takeaway this slide, I would say, I would say, is is that our CAS and CAS equivalent, is that close to a €65,000,000. So our liquidity, is on a good level. And, and, no worries related to that.
From the policy perspective, our net debt ratio, leverage ratio is still below our target. 3.4, during this quarter, developed quite stable as, as you can see. So so still and all the risk related to that and and, and, and, we are quite sort of positive that we will we are able to keep it in a good level also in the near future. Working capital level slightly increased, couple of reasoning for that obviously since the Q2. The sales has increased, which also obviously have impact for the accounts receivable side.
Also, the inventory has increased because we are like like mentioned earlier, we we sort of, our courses when it comes to comes to health care supplies and, and, and, keep try to keep, higher inventory levels that that we usually usually do. And that that's why why the inventory levels are also increasing. Thirdly, within the other payables we are in Finland having sort of been been able to postpone some of the pension related payments in Q2 and and and during Q one already, and now we are sort of, paying those postponed pension payments back And that's why why the other payables have also declined during during this quarter. CapEx wise like for like mentioned earlier, during the earlier quarters, we we have said that we are considering, some of the investments again, and and I will have been postponing some of the investments the LTM impact you can see here, so that that if you take a look at the digital development the intangible assets, that has remained actually rather stable. So we continue to in investing in tolls but what we have sort of been postponing during the crisis is, is the machinery and equipment, investments and, and but we have also now when the situation have been better, we have sort of opening the investments, again, on that area as well and continue to invest in those as well in the future.
Improvement for the premises has remained rather stable. Those are obviously quite sort of lengthy projects and and that's That's why in a short term, you you are not able to see in a short term impact in those. Relative to top line, you can see that we have also, the the total CapEx level has slightly declined from 4.5 to to 3.9 as we have freeze some of the investments. Finally, that that closes my section and, and, here you can see our financial calendar for the next year and an ATM, for for this financial year, which we have which have been also published today. And, then I think that, we are ready for the Q And A.
Thanks, Iric. Do we have any questions from the phone lines?
Yes. We do have a question from Alex Gibson from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Great. Thank you. I have two quick questions. And The first one is just on cost savings and, I'm not sure I caught it. What was the contribution in the quarter from subsidies and temporary layoffs to employees in in absolute euros amounts.
Just trying to figure out what what will and will not recur as we move into 2021. And then on the testing or the COVID testing opportunity, Could you be a bit more precise in saying how much was the revenue contribution and probably more importantly, how much was the EBITDA contribution to your business in the
from the cost side, the total impact of the subsidies during this quarter is close to that 1,000,000 and that relates to pension, pension payment reductions. The temporary that the impact from the temporary labels we have not published, but you can see in our report, we have published a number of the working days and a number of the people that we have been laid off. So so so, you can do some sort of on that, but bigger impact actually, number wise is that we have been freeze recruitment during during this year. And obviously when the business grows, we continue investing in people and continue recruiting new people as well. Then when it comes to the top line, also we haven't published the explicit number of what what comes from the COVID 19 testing, but but, the average or the price is for that we have done that 75,000 tests And and the price for the private individuals is €235, and and for the corporate customers the list price is €195.
So so through that, you can, you can do to do sort of estimate of the total impact from the COVID-nineteen testing and clear maturity of the testing volumes relates to corporates. So that 195 is a is a sort of, list price for for the corporates, and and that's that's clearly the biggest part of the COVID-nineteen testing. From the margin contributions wise, if we have said earlier that it's a it's a it's a sort of solid business, at the beginning, you'll you'll have a quite high sort of costs related to that, you have, you have to recruit, recruit resources, you have the PPP expenses and DPE expenses, you have different kind of investments related to, to that testing and, and the path, but if you are able to keep your volumes up and and people's people sort of, the utilization rate of the of the of the facilities and, and the capacity is high, then it, it comes with with sort of higher than the average margin. But if the utility is raised rate, gets gets lower. Obviously, the high level of fixed costs will have a negative impact for the total total profitability on that arena.
Okay. That's, that's helpful. Maybe just following up on that, on the, on the utilization, how how many tests per month or per quarter do you need to deliver to really? Make this a margin accretive business rather than a margin dilutive business?
It's not Unfortunately, it's not that straightforward. Like we did, actually, in during Q1, when when when the testing volumes were slow, winning, we were we actually took down the capacity and we we closed some of the texting facilities. So that, that comes back to that agility which which will have mentioned so that that if we are seeing a decrease, in testing volumes, we are also acting really fast to to scale down the capacity, in the matter of weeks, I would say the hyper take to take down the capacity. And, and in that sense, we don't have a peak. We are not afraid of having a sort of negative impact, from the testing because we are always able to scale down the capacity, but obviously the positive impact is then, sort of diminishing.
Yes. Maybe, shortly continue on on on on on that one. Just underlying, the, sort of capability of terabytes to scale up and scale down once, once again, in in this tech testing context, we are number 1, nationwide, provider for, for, for the testing. We have the, vast nationwide network. And, I I think, I I gave quite nice example how how we are able in in a physical, physical manner scale up very rapidly throughout, the the network of, 350 units if we so wish, earlier in Q3, when the demand for for testing, was, increasing, the, public, side, they they were contemplating around, doubling the capacity in 5 weeks, we were contemplating, around, 5 folding the capacity in, in, in 2 weeks.
And that's what we did. And, that, that's, that's what we can do going forward where we are highly, highly agile, we are highly adaptable. And during the crisis, what has improved, quite, quite nicely is the logistics. We have a central lab now in Helsinki and the logistics, it has become faster and and and and leaner and and to certain ex extent also most more cost efficient. And and that's sort of a sustainable improvement for further process going forward.
And and just continuing that, still not to mention that the digital capabilities that we are able to do when it comes to the testing. So only physical piece when it comes to the testing nowadays is the is the sample taking. Everything else has been digitalize. So you you can book the time online or your or through your mobile. You can have the referral through online, you can sort of, make an appointment online and you can get the results online.
Only only piece that we are not able to digitalize is the sample taking, unfortunately. That world is not ready for that yet.
Not yet. And in my, sort of, individual offer. A few weeks. Yeah. In my individual experience, exactly as as I'll said, the physical experience was 5 minutes.
All the rest was was digital.
Yeah. And and so I'm getting it right. If I was to exclude testing is if I could decline of minus 5% in the quarter, ballpark around where you think the underlying
Sorry. Well, could that sorry, then can you repeat?
So just, just doing the simple calculation and you have given numbers, but it seems like your growth if you didn't have testing would have been maybe minus 5%.
You mean the, as you're referring, underlying, yes, yeah, underlying volume. Yeah. Yeah. So. Basically, the the, especially when it comes to, to, to private business, like, like we said in, in, in, in the outlook as well.
We saw positive development in the private, and and private is already already coking also to underlying volumes. The the for the corporate segment, the the sort of it's a it's a bit mixed picture, the the preventive and, and, legally required services have bounced back So it's it's it has normalized, and and it's it's slightly increasing, but but sort of the a sickness care related services when it comes to the corporate segment and, and, if you would exclude the COVID 19 testing, there we are not not situation has not yet fully normalized, that relates to a couple of factors, I would say, a first thing is is obviously the, some of the corporates are, not using so much, occupational health care, sickness care related services, and are, and are cost to cautious, some of that relates to the fact that, that, especially when it comes to the work related injuries and other sort of accidents, the estimate at the moment is that that the volume of that or or the number of those incidents have declined nationwide from 10 to 15%. So that will obviously have impact for the corporate Cygnus care And the 3rd element is that, that as people are working remotely and, and having a social distance of course, all kinds of info in other infections than the COVID-nineteen, are also sort of being avoided and we can see the clear decline nationwide as well when it comes to the other infections be be be it any any ear nose throat or stomach related, infections and and and, obviously, post COVID 19 situation that that, like, as well, the injury re work related injuries would would and should sort of normalize.
We have another question on the telephone from Panu Leitinaki from Danske Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Yes, thank you. I have three questions. So, firstly, continuing on the testing topic What's the outlook for the volume of the test in the coming months? I think you made an agreement with the Helsinki hospital district and to be a partner with them. So how much will this growth volume of the testing going forward?
Do you want to take it off?
The the, Helsinki hospital district in my hospital, that that is, that only relates to sample taking, first of all, and so it's it's not COVID nineteen testing. It's only the sample taking. So it's a it's a bit different, different sort of type of business when it comes to the COVID-nineteen testing, our we have to refer to our best medical experts in this case, and and and they are estimating that that, during the following 6 months, like our outlook is is that that the testing volumes nationwide and within our operations as well are going to remain on a high level, We will see like you can see if you are taking if you are looking at at our open reporting through the internet where we publish every day the testing volumes, you can see the weekly fluctuations, but but our medical experts still continue estimating that that, volumes will re remain at a high level during the following following 6 months at least.
Yeah, commenting on on that one, still coming back to the, network strength that, Therabas Tower, has the strongest network, in, in Finland, as the, COVID-nineteen pandemic or epidemic progresses, we will see, a sort of s shifts and, and, and changes in in different districts, as as we have seen lately, for their best dialogue, that doesn't mean, instability because we are in in every corner, Finland. So basically wherever this, this COVID-nineteen pops up, we are there, and we we will capture the, the testing volumes.
Okay. Thank you. The second question is more broadly on the demand from the public sector. I think we had discussed earlier that there is a backlog of services in the public sector and they might need help with that, what have you seen related to that recently or, so is there any progress with that or is it the opposite so that, things would be frozen with the kind of traditional services now as the public sector is again preparing for COVID-nineteen setting?
There has been like this. The one example is is, of course, the the the sample taking agreement that we have have done with the housing queues in my hospital district. And there's other similar kind of smaller agreements and and negotiations ongoing, but in in a sort of, bigger, bigger scale, I would argued that part of the positive development, in sickness care and in specialty care, within the private business that's partly driven by people opting out the public queues. It's difficult to sort quantify the number because we don't ask every patient that why you have, visited our facilities, but I think that what that is that that one element is that, and and the DHL to finish, I don't know what what that is in English, but to finish sort of the health. Authority.
Authority. Published, the survey related to public use if the situation typically historically at the end of August has been that that people, waiting in queues for more than 6 months, the number of those happen on average, roughly 2000 people nationwide, this year, the situation at the end of August was close to 18,000 that have have waited more than 6 months to their operations. And some of those customers, most likely, we'll opt out the public queue and pay out of pocket. The the then the following following question obviously is, and the best and and the good question is that how much the public sector will sort of try to to close down that, that queue with their own operations and how much they are outsourcing to the private partners, I think it's pretty clear that they are not able to do it on their own. They need private sector for that, but the quantity, remains open because the queues have already since the end of August, at least based on the Finnish newspapers have been increasing from that 18,000 still.
So so the jury is out still that that how big of the opportunity that is for the private sector.
Yes. Munizepalities and and a public sector in internal. They have, been given a lot of leeway in in in this one. Not, sort of, acting according to guarantees, care care, care guarantees, access to care, And, that's due to the COVID 19. That has, that has been sort of the explanation why they have been given so much leeway.
But, at one point, as as Ilkka said, this, this, they they need to dismantle these these queues and, and, as said many times before, the capacity available, only capacity available, for solving that developing crisis is, private segment, private sector.
My final question is on the very kind of near term outlook. You already described what's happening in the corporate and private segments in general. But have you seen any change to, to people's behavior in the, let's say, past, couple of weeks when we have seen more restrictions from Finland. So any kind of, indicators that Q4 would be more negative than what we have seen in Q3?
What we can see also from the open credit card data, which, which, some of the Nordic banks are are publishing the usage of the healthcare services has remained rather stable, during the the recent weeks, even though that that that the usage of some other service sector services have already declined because of the worsening COVID-nineteen situation. But but so far so good. So so we haven't seen any any major deviations when it comes to our operations.
Yes. After Q2, and during Q2, we were discussing a lot about this fear factor. Which was impacting demand, especially in in capital region. But, clearly, the the atmosphere, it has shifted so that we are sort of a trusted partner in in in this crisis. Obviously, we'll we'll see some sporadic changes in in demand, for example, Vasa, a good example when the COVID-nineteen spikes in certain areas.
It might temporarily, impact our demand. But overall, in in our, network, we haven't seen any any any negative development in in sort of, customer willingness, to to use our services.
Okay. That's all for me. Thank you.
There are no further audio questions registered. Thank
you. We have some questions from the web cost. I think, some of the questions were already discussed earlier, but, question from Anciras, how much do you estimate our COVID testing capacity to increase in Q4 compared to Q3?
So, the question was all testing capacity.
Testing capacity, quarter to quarter compared to a base quarter to go in. Well, at
the moment, we don't see a need to increase our overall testing capacity. We have what it takes, so to speak. But obviously, as I said many times before, we we are ready to ramp up, regionally where where needed. So the capacity will be a will not be a bottleneck for us.
Then another question from Paulo Lohidnordea. You're guiding for significant fall in revenue from out sourcing contracts. Does this have anything to do with the new health care reform and, the new outsourcing contract postponed by municipalities once the new health care reform is in place and uncertainty disappears in that regard?
No. It has nothing to do with the social and health care reform. It's, discontinuing some of the, old attendee outsourcing contracts and that we haven't lost any contracts, but the municipalities are, are, in sourcing their operations.
I may be still on on on that note, as we commented, I think, during last quarter report, the activity from, from the municipalities and the public sector when it comes to outsourcings, it's still active. So so the market is there.
Yeah. Then a question from Ersteem on Carnegie. Can you comment, how was the sales of corporate and private customers developed so far in October? And how do you expect the current employment situation down 1% year on year in September to impact your corporate customer sales?
So, like, like, mentioned earlier, that the credit card data that that has been published openly, by by the Nordic banks that, refers to situation to private, that the private, health care spend has remained rather stable. Overall, that, when it comes to corporate segment, like, like mentioned earlier, the situation is such that the preventive services are developing quite positively and the sickness service is still still sort of, uncertain and and and behind, the underlying demand is is behind the normal situation, like explained earlier, the if, of course, if the unemployment situations is personing significantly that will have an impact, to to our business as well. But in a short term and, and, currently, there's a auto drivers that that that are, sort of having bigger impact for the corporate sales than than than the unemployment situations related to COVID-nineteen.
Then a question on the cost line items. Should we expect any temporary government cost subsidy for Q4 this year still?
That pension related subsidy, of which impact during this quarter was that 1,500,000 that is still continuing during the Q4. And, that's the, that's the only, only sort of subsidy that that we are seeing during the Q4.
Then a follow-up question on the queues in the public sector from Bali Lo Hino Dea. Aren't the largest queues in the secondary health care side in the public sector and how much can we help on the secondary health care to dissolve those lines?
The the number that, that, that I was referring to relates exactly to to secondary care. So it's the number that is collected from the Finnish hospital districts, which operates, the the secondary care in in Finland. So so the increase from that 2000 to 18,000 relates to secondary care and, mostly, operations and, and, namely, eye and, and, and so, eye operations and surgeries.
Yeah. We which we do operate. So so we can take part in in dismantling those queues. Then, a follow-up question on the, ending outsourcing contracts. Can you quantify the impact of these terminating contracts and then when will these end?
Most of those will end at the end of the this year. So some in some occasions, we might have 1 or 2 months impact for also for for the next year, but most most of those will end at at the end of This year, we are still negotiating with some of the outsourcing contracts and therefore it's not sort of, we're not able to to quantify the the the actual impact, post post the the year end. At the moment.
Yeah. And there are still some new contracts also up in negotiations. So the net impact this is not clear yet. Unless we have any new questions from the phone lines, I think we've covered all the questions from the webcast.
There are no further questions registered.