CMD 2026

Sep 23, 2026

Slides

Summary

The plywood operations were set to separate from UPM and list in Helsinki, with growth focused on premium end uses forecast to expand 5.3% annually through 2030. Existing capacity, customer retention and operational improvements underpin growth plans.

Good afternoon to our guests here in the room and to everyone joining us online. My name is Ulla Paajanen, and I will be responsible for WISA's investor relations. A warm welcome to WISA's first Capital Markets Day, hosted here at UPM's Biofore House. I would also like to remind you of our disclaimer, since we might be making forward-looking statements. Before we begin, let me briefly go through some important safety information regarding the premises. Safety is a top priority for WISA. Therefore, I would like to remind everyone here that in the event of evacuation, please leave all personal belongings behind and proceed outside as quickly and safely as possible. Our designated meeting point is located directly in front of the Biofore House. Your today's presenters are Chair of the Board, Tapio Korpeinen, whose distinguished career spans leadership position as a CFO and business area executive at UPM. Joining him is President and CEO, Tuija Suur-Hamari, a highly respected leader with extensive experience across the forest industry, particularly in materials-based and industrial businesses. Completing the team is Chief Financial Officer, Lasse von Hertzen, who brings a unique combination of capital markets expertise from investment banking and deep financial leadership experience from UPM. Let us now turn to today's agenda. As you can see, Tapio will begin by sharing why UPM believes WISA is well-positioned to create greater value as an independent listed company. Tuija will then provide an overview of WISA's market strategy and investment case. Following these presentations, we will open the floor for a Q&A session with Tapio and Tuija. After a short break, Tuija will continue with a deeper look at WISA's operations and product offering, and Lasse will present then WISA's financials profile. Before our final Q&A session with all presenters, Tapio will conclude the formal presentations with closing remarks, and we expect today's event to conclude approximately 4:00 P.M. Helsinki time. At this point, thank you for joining us. We look forward to an engaging discussion and to answering your questions throughout the afternoon. Before we begin, a few words about questions. For those joining us online, a chat function is available on the event page. We encourage you to submit your questions throughout the event, and we will address them during the Q&A sessions. For those joining us here in person, please raise your hand if you would like to ask a question, and a microphone will be brought to you. We welcome your active participation and look forward to engage in discussion. Now, let's move on to today's presentations. Tapio, please. Thank you, Ulla, and good afternoon. Welcome on my behalf as well. Quite a historic moment, the first CMD for WISA Group, even if it's a long-established industrial company, but about to be listed, therefore the first CMD. I will give a bit of a background to the demerger and also, let's say, the rationale for the demerger and the listing of WISA. In terms of background, to start, let's say from 2 years ago when we had a Capital Markets Day for UPM, we sort of laid out the priorities for UPM as such, and also, let's say, the focus for looking for new growth for the company. Since then, we have disclosed 2 important sort of portfolio initiatives, actually last year. The joint venture that is in the works between us and Sappi, which addresses communication papers, which is the business within UPM portfolio that operates in a structurally declining market. Of course, there the rationale is to look for synergies in combining the 2 businesses and an upside for the business as a joint venture, independent joint venture going forward. The other news from last year was the strategic review for the plywood business of UPM, and now we are at a stage where at the end of August, the shareholders of UPM approved the plan to demerge WISA Group from UPM, and here we are at the first CMD. Of course, in the case of WISA, the rationale is different, let's say. It is about distinguishing the potential that the business has in terms of value creation and also profitable growth. WISA Group is a leading player in the plywood business and with a focus on the premium categories of the market, so with a premium position in the market. WISA has a, let's say, strong track record of being able to deliver good results in terms of returns and cash flow throughout the business cycle during the past years. Also, the focus of the group means if we look at the sort of market segments, geographies where the business operates, we expect to have the market grow by more than 5% per year during the coming years. So there is room to grow, and now WISA will have room to pursue its strategy to deliver value, deliver profitable growth, also, I would say, the capability and the capacity to do so. Also we can make basically those value drivers and actions more visible to the investor, and let's say, distinguish the value that can be created in the WISA business standalone and as a listed company. We have an experienced leadership team also, and today you have a chance to discuss with some of them, and especially hear from Tuija and Lasse, as was shown in the agenda. About the transaction as such, just a short note on that. Basically, as was approved in the EGM, WISA Group will be carved out or separated from UPM through a partial demerger, and that means that each UPM shareholder will receive one WISA Group share at the time of the demerger. Therefore, on day one, the shareholder base of the company will be exactly the same as it is at that time for UPM as a whole. The plan after the demerger, which will take place at the end of October, plan is to list those shares as quickly as possible in the beginning of November in the Helsinki Stock Exchange. I believe that in the Helsinki Stock Exchange, in the list of companies, WISA will be a quite unique investment case for the shareholders. As said, it is a well-established leader in the plywood business with a premium focus. The sort of dynamics or fundamental drivers of the segments and customers of the market where WISA Group focus is means that, again, we believe that there is healthy growth, more than 5% per year going forward. The premium position, which I have mentioned a couple of times here already, is based on both quality and service capability that is tailored for the customer and end-use segments that WISA is focused on. That means that, first of all, that is evidenced by the price point that WISA is able to fetch for its plywood in the marketplace. Tuija will show more about that. Also it means that WISA has a quite resilient, sticky customer base to base its business on. When you combine that with the fact that WISA is able to manage and control its costs in the different sort of points of business cycle, then therefore also this resilience and, let us say, good cash flow throughout the cycle has been there. The final point there is that when then looking at the business at hand, what WISA Group has in terms of the customers, but also in terms of the asset base, the portfolio of plywood mills, the potential for growth and reaching the financial targets, which we will talk about later today, it is possible without any major capital investments during the first coming years here. So in that sense, there is a case also for profitable growth, improving performance in a very capital-effective, efficient way. But maybe I will stop there, and we will have a chance to discuss and dig into each of these points deeper today. So I will hand it over to Tuija, who will then tell you about the business and the strategy in more detail. Dear guests, welcome on my behalf as well. My name is Tuija Suur-Hamari, and I am the future CEO of WISA Group. When I joined UPM Plywood about a year ago, I thought that plywood is a good business and has excellent opportunities. Now, after a year, I truly feel that this is the case, and even stronger. So, very excited to start the journey as WISA Group. I believe that after today, you will also see WISA as a company with strong financial track record and potential for clear growth and future development. So, it is our pleasure to introduce WISA Group to you. WISA Group is one of the leading plywood producers in Europe, focusing on those end uses where the requirements for the material and for the service are the most demanding ones. So, in high and medium requirement end uses of plywood. WISA has a diverse product and market exposure and strong financials. Our sales in the previous 12 months have contributed to EUR 457 million, comparable EBITDA to EUR 67 million, and EBIT to EUR 49 million. Together with our net debt position, these figures demonstrate strong financials and room to grow. Plywood as a material is a very versatile material. It can be used in various end uses because it possesses properties that are superior compared to, for example, other wood-based materials. Those are properties such as the high strength-to-weight performance, durability, wear resistance, and dimensional and thermal stability, to name some. In WISA, our strategy is to take the maximum out of these excellent properties of plywood and bring them to the end uses that are most demanding and where plywood is the material of choice and difficult to replace. WISA's industrial footprint is close to where the forests are. We have our mills in Finland and in Estonia. Our sales is close to our customers, positioned in our markets, serving our customers in their local language, and supported by warehouse hubs located strategically close to the customers. Responsibility is built into WISA's business model, and this continues to be so also in the future. That's because it's in our values, but also because that's what our customers expect of us. Our responsibility approach has six pillars. Firstly, responsible sourcing. We know our suppliers, and we know where our wood comes from. Secondly, efficiency in terms of energy efficiency and both also in material efficiency. Third pillar, we are a reliable partner for our customers and close to them. We keep our promises, and we do the right things right. Fourth point, we want to continue developing WISA as a safe and engaging workplace also in the future. Fifth, renewability and low carbon performance. Plywood is part of a solution, and WISA is part of a solution in the decarbonization journey, where plywood as material is a biogenic carbon sink. Lastly but not least, also we continue R&D for fossil substitution in our own processes, but also offering solutions for our customers. Like said, WISA has a very focused approach towards the end uses that we serve. So, we focus on four key end uses. Biggest one of those is panel trading and construction, so different construction end uses in the European market. 58% of our turnover comes from this end use. Vehicle flooring, floorings for commercial vehicles like trailers and reefers, trucks, 12% of our turnover coming from that end use. The most demanding end use there is for plywood is the LNG shipbuilding business, where plywood is used in the cargo containment systems of liquefied natural gas as an insulation material around the gas tanks. 14% of our turnover comes from this end use. The smallest end use for us, focus end use is the parquet manufacturing, representing 4% of our turnover during the past 12 months. You may notice that we have there marked that there is both birch and spruce plywood in our portfolio. We have this premium positioning across both hardwood and softwood plywood. So we produce hardwood plywood out of birch. Birch as a wood species is more dense, so we get the stiff and strong plywood produced out of birch. Whereas then our other wooden product lines, our WISA-Spruce, spruce as material is less dense, and therefore the plywood produced out of it is more lightweight and excellent for structural use, so in different construction end uses. Share of these two product lines in our sales is about 50/50%. These birch plywood products are used in a bigger variety of key end uses. Therefore, because those are the more demanding ones, then also the average gross price that we get from birch products is significantly higher than that of the spruce. In this picture, you can also see that our delivery volumes for birch have been lower, and we also have a lower capacity than for spruce plywood. One thing that Tapio already mentioned and can be found out in this equation here is also that we have available capacity in both WISA Birch and WISA-Spruce, and we can capture the market growth with our existing capacity without any major investments. Plywood production as such is a highly technical process. You need to have access to quality raw materials, rightly harvested according to the plywood needs, brought to the mills in an efficient manner and favorably from as close distance as possible to minimize the logistics costs. Plywood production has many stages. Efficiency is needed in each of these to reach the qualities needed for the different demanding end uses. This is kind of core of WISA. We are very good in this plywood operations and production and can do this in an efficient manner. Let's take a bit closer look into WISA's markets and competitive environment. The global plywood market is in volumes about 107 million cubic meters large. In values, this represents about EUR 39 billion. WISA's focus market, these high and medium-grade applications in Europe and the global LNG market, that's of a size of 4.6 million cubic meters in volumes, translating to value of EUR 3.1 billion. There you can also calculate from this that actually, even though WISA's focus market is less than 5% of the global plywood market in volume, in terms of value, it's almost double of the share. The sizes are almost double, so close to 8%. WISA is focusing on the demanding industrial applications, high and medium end uses, and selected customers in Europe, and then globally on the LNG market. The good news is that these focus markets of WISA are expected, estimated to continue growing until 2030 at the pace of 5.3% annually. You can see in this picture that the biggest market, biggest single key end use here is the construction market, but all of these key end uses are estimated to continue growing. That's because of the attractive end market dynamics and geopolitical landscape. In the LNG demand, the global demand for liquefied natural gas has been growing, and already we know that there is a large backlog of LNG carriers to be produced also in the years to come. Construction business has been in a low cycle for some years already. That is expected to turn into growth part of the cycle. Good to note that even though this has been the case in construction sector for some time already, WISA has nevertheless been able to show good financial performance. There is a big potential in this one. Vehicle flooring demand is also expected to grow following macroeconomic conditions, but also because there is aging fleet in Europe and there is a new European directive, Vector Directive, coming into force, forcing then commercial logistics companies lowering their CO2 emissions. All in all, also the demand for sustainable products is expected to continue growing, also supported by regulation, for example, by intensifying the use of less carbon-intensive products. Let us take a bit closer look into these two biggest key end uses of WISA, so construction and the LNG market. In this picture, you can see in the graph below the distribution of WISA Group sales in construction segment by different countries. You may notice that the Nordics, Ireland, and the U.K., and Benelux are the biggest construction markets in Europe for WISA. If you then look at the upper graph showing the estimated construction market growth in Europe, you may notice that WISA's focus market in construction is expected to grow faster than the European average. On the right-hand side, you see a very nice house. There is a lot of plywood in there, and that is picturing the different end uses or different ways of using WISA plywood in construction across the different usages. So, lovely house. Like said, the LNG vessel fleet and LNG market is estimated to continue growing close to 9% a year until the end of 2030. WISA is one of the suppliers, of the few suppliers globally, who is able to supply this very demanding market, where the barriers for entry are the highest. In order to become a supplier in this segment, first of all, you need to have certification from the French technology owner, GTT, who certifies who can start supplying. You need to have, obviously, the required technical qualities with your products, and you need to have relevant volumes to be able to supply that market. Obviously, you need to win over the shipyards as well and be continuously able to deliver quality products with quality service. In this market, the customers are also sticky. They prefer to work with suppliers who they know they can trust on. So we have good market, and to turn this into good business, we also need a strategy how we are going to capture that market growth. So let us take a look into WISA strategy as well. Also in the future, WISA will be winning with focus, partnership, and disciplined execution. We have clear strengths that we built our strategy on also going forward. WISA continues to rely and be focused on those premium applications of plywood. We continue to work closely with our customers in a true partnership-led commercial model, and we continue to run our two strategic product lines, birch and spruce plywood. At the same time, developing our operational footprint and efficiencies in our existing mills. All of this then built on the continuous improvement and cost control that is part of our culture in WISA. We also have a robust growth agenda in place for WISA, targeting industry-leading profitability, and it has three pillars. The pillar C here is commercial excellence. How do we plan to capture the growth that is on the market? How do we grow in our focus end uses? Then the second pillar is the operational excellence. How we develop our mills, increase the efficiencies, and maintain and improve our competitiveness. The pillars A and B put together our existing capacity and capabilities. By these, we believe that we can meet our financial targets without significant investments. Then, as WISA going forward as an independent company, there is also the pillar C that gives us additional potential and opportunities. This may be geographical expansion into attractive markets, could be selected strategic investments, or an optionality for M&A should an interesting opportunity arise in that front. If we take a little bit closer look into the commercial strategy of WISA, like said, continue to focus on our key end uses also going forward. We put together the strategy for each of the key end uses, considering selected customers, considering geographical areas. The common denominators in our commercial strategy are, how do we capture the market growth with our existing customers? How do we increase the share of wallet within our existing customers? Also on how do we create new key accounts, especially in markets where we currently may be underrepresented. A lot of potential there. In the operational pillar, so the B pillar, we are focusing on, let's say, classical operational improvement issues. Productivity growth, improvement of yield, so getting more out of the precious raw material that we use, improving the product quality, having higher share of higher-margin products produced in our mills, and then optimizing our maintenance cost, turning the focus from fixing or maintaining more into preventive maintenance. We can also, and good to note, that we can increase our production with the existing fixed cost base, so without the need of adding significantly the fixed costs. All of this is, like said, classical things, and also needs to be supported by targeted investments in automation, in smaller debottlenecking investments, and also in bringing digitalization tools to our shop floor and production units. One example of these kind of new digital tools that has brought our plywood production to new era is the mill data platform, a new digital tool that we have now launched into all of our production sites during the past year, allowing real-time data on operational visibility available for our operators and engineers, enabling then faster decision-making and earlier identification of possible deviations. Also a better tool for analysis and planning the future improvement areas. We can already see the results of the new tool in our KPIs. We've created a huge pool of data, and knowing that data has maybe today more value than ever. We're already now testing in our Otepää mill in Estonia AI-based quality sorting. This type of examples and digitalization, we will continue to bring on to our production sites also going forward as part of our strategy. So these were the pillars A and B. Like said, then WISA is also well-positioned to capture additional potential across strategic growth levers. In our R&D laboratory, we have a major R&D project ongoing on developing next-generation plywood products. We may be considering extension of our product portfolio and M&A, like we already discussed as well. So the horizons are open for WISA in the future. I hope by now we've been able to waken your interest towards WISA as an investment case. Tapio already went through the highlights in the beginning. Now let's take a bit closer look into those still. WISA is one of the leading European plywood producers in an attractive position in the forestry value chain with high entry barriers. Here we have pictured, this is one way of looking into the leading, obviously. Here we have placed our main competitors, main European producers. We put them into order in terms of capacity. You may notice that WISA has a nice podium place there. You may also notice that there are two suppliers that are marked with gray. Those are our Russian competitors who are not currently able to deliver their products to the European market. WISA is a significant player, premium supplier, and focusing on those most valuable markets. That is our strategy. We already went through the attractive market dynamic, so the expectation of our focus market is to continue growing, so not going to stop there. It is good to remember that it is a growing business. WISA has its offering tailored towards the premium application, and that is facilitating us a strong pricing power. On the left-hand picture, you see a qualitative map of the different end uses of plywood. On the Y-axis, they are ranked according to the technical and service level requirements. You may notice that WISA's focus end uses are there on the highest end use categories, which then translate to the pricing position that we enjoy on the market. On the right-hand picture, we describe that. It is showing the hardwood and softwood markets in Europe. On the X-axis, you again have the qualitative scoring, and on the Y-axis, you have the qualitative scoring, and on X-axis is the price, average price for the material. You may notice that both WISA-Spruce and WISA Birch are in their categories in the upper right corner. That is how it can be interpreted as our premium position. One reason also behind the previous is that we have a clear commercial strategy, which is in turn facilitating a sticky customer base. We have shifted from a higher number of key customers, so from 400 key customers down to 100, for 10 focus end uses down to four, and from 28 different applications to 10. This has brought focus to the whole WISA business. You can imagine that it translates in efficiencies throughout the organization. Think about stock levels, for example, for different products and complexities in the production. WISA has now today a strong emphasis on serving large industrial customers and end users and distribution partners. As a result of this, the retention rate of WISA's customers varies between 99%-100% a year, which is quite amazing in my opinion. I have not seen such numbers anywhere else. WISA has a resilient financial profile, and you can see it in this picture where we show in the upper graph, we show the turnover development of WISA during the past 10 years. The graph below shows the comparable EBITDA development in the same timeframe. There has been a lot of things happening. There have been different business cycles. There has been a pandemic and a couple of wars. During this same timeframe, the comparable EBITDA percentage has been hovering between 14%-18%. This, in my opinion, signals the resilience of WISA. One reason behind this resilience you may find here. WISA's cost base is flexible. We have high proportion of variable costs, so 76% of our costs are variable, meaning that we can adjust on different business cycles and market conditions easier than some other more fixed cost-intensive productions. Also, the capital requirements for WISA have been low over time, and these have then led to consistently high cash generation and capital efficiency of the business. The average cash conversion has been 76% in the past three years, and the return on capital employed 18%. The good news is that we still have significant upside, like already mentioned. We have capacity to meet the market growth with our existing machine park. You see on the left-hand side here in this picture our delivery volumes in 2025. A good reference is to use our record year of production, 2021, as a reference on how much we can easily grow with our existing current product palette, considering also that we've been able to develop our production since 2021. But that gives you some kind of a ballpark. That concludes the first part of my presentation. Thank you, Tuija. Just to remind audience online that you can ask questions through a chat function, which is available on the event page. Here in the room, if you want to ask a question, raise your hand and microphone will be brought to you. Antti, before we go to your question, may I ask a couple of questions here from the chat? Tapio, you elaborated about the investment highlights of WISA, but if you would like to single out one particular highlight, what would you like to share with us? Well, I would say, like I was pointing out earlier, that WISA is a very well-established industrial leader in the plywood market, with quite a lot of operating leverage, therefore able to actually deliver on the financial targets in a very capital-efficient and, I would say, reliable way when we look at the next years to come. Okay, thanks. Then maybe also to Tuija, here is one for you, that could you please elaborate why WISA is able to get premium prices for its products? Oh, thank you for the question. I think that is a combination of the things that I explained. So, focus on the premium markets, our clear commercial strategy, taking extremely good care of our customers, and on our sticky customer base. I think that is where it comes from. Okay, thanks. Now, why do not we go to Antti Koskivuori at Danske? Thank you. Antti Koskivuori from Danske. Two questions. Thanks for the good presentations, by the way. Firstly, on the competitive landscape, one observation obviously from the slide was that there is quite a lot of capacity in Russia, which are now, I guess, more or less blocked from the European market. If we see a scenario that those volumes would be returning to the market, what kind of implications do you see for your core markets and segments? Yes. Thank you. Yes, the case, like said, is today so that Russians are not able to be present on the European market, but we do consider the fact that one day there will be peace in Europe, and most likely we also get more competition from Russia. Even today, we are competing with the Russians in Asia, so they are present on the LNG market, so that picture wouldn't be changing. They also don't have spruce plywood in their portfolio. That picture wouldn't be changing either. They have been importing significant volumes of birch plywood to the European market earlier on, and our assessment is that they would first come to those end uses and applications where they were present before the war. Quite a lot of the capacity that has left, or the Russians haven't been able to bring to Europe, has been then filled with imports from outside Europe. So, our expectation is that that would be kind of the first battle there. At the same time, we also believe that when there is peace in Europe, also the construction sector most likely will turn into strong growth mode, and the absolute cake also grows for everybody to take their shares and grow. Still, one point is that then it also remains to see what happens to the wood imports and wood pricing in this type of scenario. Can't give you an exact answer, but it's not a black and white picture. Great. Thank you. Also, kind of what Tuija Suur-Hamari was already pointing out, these players are no strangers to us. Before the war, we were competing with them, and we did so quite well. So, then we will see what the situation is if those circumstances come that they are able to come back to Europe, but then the market will probably look quite different as well. Thank you. Second question would be on WISA as a separate company versus part of UPM Group. I wonder how do you see the potential dis-synergies coming from the spin-off to WISA? I guess one thing that comes to my mind is wood sourcing, for example. I mean, WISA as a procurer of wood is a quite much smaller player than UPM as a whole. Do you see that this type of, or this particular thing, or other topics, similar matter, would have an impact on WISA's potential to kind of operate as good as it has been going forward? WISA has already been independent in terms of business. We've had our independent mills, our independent sales. Then where we have been relying strongly on UPM is the different functions serving us. Now during the past year, we've been, and since springtime more significantly so, we've been able to build our own organizations. Also, actually during summertime, we also carved ourselves out of UPM SAP. We've kind of built the independent WISA already. We know that our fixed costs through, and I think Lasse will come more into details into this, but we will have higher fixed costs as a standalone company. But there will be continuing some agreements with UPM also going forward. Wood sourcing being another one of those. I'll actually come back to the wood sourcing agreement after the break. The other kind of win-win cooperation that we are continuing with UPM is UPM continues to be our logistics supplier, where volumes matter, and WISA has significant volumes to be shipped out of Finland to European continent, so. All right. Thank you. Okay, thanks. Linus, before we go to you, I had taken one from here, from the chat, which is an interesting topic. Tuija, you mentioned in your presentation about the possibilities for M&A, and here is a question that, is WISA expected to grow through acquisition? If yes, what businesses the company is looking for? That is an option for WISA, and if we go that way, then the target needs to meet our strategic or be aligned with our strategy one way or another. As we know, the plywood market in Europe is rather fragmented, so there are different avenues depending on how we look into it. Good. Thank you. Now I think it is Linus Larsson from SEB. Thanks a lot, and thanks for your presentation so far. I wonder a bit about business practices and how they may change now for you as an independent company. What constraints have Tapio put on your business while you have been part of a big group, and how may that change? Maybe in particular, in terms of your growth aspirations, what you may let loose and how you may try to grow differently from before? Don't know about the constraints, but maybe a way to put it is that WISA has been the smallest business area in UPM. When capital allocation is being considered, maybe we have not been in the forefront of the investment decisions. Now going forward, WISA is able to, let's say, use the money it's making. Maybe Tapio has a better comment on this. Well, maybe first I would sort of turn it around also this way that, of course, let's say, UPM has a kind of a certain level of excellence that we look for from all companies and all businesses, and of course from the company as a stock-listed company. In that sense, there's a very strong base in terms of practice for WISA as a new listed company to build on in terms of what a listed company must be able to do and how to manage its business and so on and so forth. Then, of course, it's a question that when looking at a, let's say, global large-scale, large-cap company like UPM, we have many kind of requirements that are put on us, and probably there will be. Obviously, now we have been focusing on getting ready for the day one and getting the sort of business ready to fly in the beginning. Probably there will be also chances to sort of really kind of sharpen the focus in terms of what WISA as a listed company is to be able to deliver to its investors and where there is, let's say, chances to sort of simplify. Thanks. Good. We have some very good questions here on the chat. Some of them will be addressed in the second part of the presentation, so I will skip them and leave it for the final Q&A. But here is one for you, Tuija. There is a question about WISA's financial result is heavily dependent on workers' union relations, as we saw first quarter 2025. What has the message been from the personnel on the demerger? Yes. Obviously, when the announcement was made September last year that plywood is under a strategic review, the first impression was a surprise, and obviously, a shock, at least in some people's minds. Then it took a time to digest the topic. Since then, I would say that now our teams across the mills, but in different functions as well, are very motivated in creating something totally new and getting a new start. Not going to be able to speak for every individual, but that's the big spirit we have. Actually, we've been also measuring and following this as part of our transformation journey, how people take the situation, and to make sure that we also communicate and bring information in a timely manner to our people to understand where we are heading to. Hmm. Yes. Good, thanks. Then I think it's Tomi here from DNB Carnegie. Hi, Tomi Railo, DNB Carnegie. Sticky customer base, premium pricing, can you talk a little bit about the pricing trends and fluctuations over the years? Is it highly linked to the volumes, or how do you sustain kind of the pricing picture? We have a principle of value-based pricing. We try to hang on to our prices, and that's part of our pricing excellence, that we don't only sell volumes and products, but truly the value proposition. That is respected also by the customers. Obviously, when there are big changes on the market, then our pricing follows. We'll actually be discussing the pricing a bit later. But we are not changing our approach after every cycle or market movement. Okay, thanks. Then I think it is Joni Sandvall from Nordea. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks. Joni Sandvall from Nordea. Maybe one question still on the competition, especially from Chinese competition. Those are more on the low end of requirements of end users. But how you see in the future, is there a possibility that the Chinese competitors would develop their products as they have done maybe in the packaging space historically? Is there a risk that these competitors would enter, let us say, on the medium requirement market? If we have learned something from where the world has developed over the recent years, I think it is not to underestimate the Chinese capabilities. I cannot say that there wouldn't be a risk like that. We can only concentrate on our game and maintaining our sticky customers and developing the sales from our perspective, and bringing in new solutions, because that is what WISA has in its tradition, to be a forerunner in the industry. Okay, thank you. Okay. Let's go here to the chat because there are no other questions here in the room. There is a question to you, Tuija, again. What would you characterize as the main competitive advantages of WISA? I would say, coming back again to our premium focus. So, customer knowledge, business understanding, quality of our products, but also quality of our services. For each of the key end use that we have, we have defined a specific value proposition, and then worked on the value proposition, so to develop it to a higher differentiation factor from our competition. Good, thanks. I have here some more questions, but some of these are for Lasse von Hertzen, and some are so that we will be covering them in the second presentations. I will park them until the end of the day. Are there any more questions here in the room for these two presentations that we have now already listened in? Okay, seems like not. We will have now a break, and I would hope to see you all here in the room 5 to 3:00 Finnish time. It's about 25 minutes, and we all start again then. Welcome back from the break. Let's continue with the agenda. Earlier on, we looked into WISA's markets, strategy, and key investment highlights. Now let's go deeper into operations and sales and financial figures. Starting from the wood supply, premium quality plywood needs obviously premium quality logs and secure supplies. Also going forward, forestry dynamics support WISA being the buyer of choice for veneer logs. Plywood producers have superior ability to pay for the most valuable part of wood harvested in the forest, so for the logs, compared to, for example, to the pulp producers or even to the sawmill timber producers. Having said that, there is a good symbiosis on the wood market with these actors. It's good that there is an outlet industry utilizing the logs, having the capability to pay for them, and at the same time-