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Earnings Call: H2 2022

Mar 16, 2023

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Good afternoon. Welcome to the 2022 annual results presentation for CK Asset. My name is Gerald. I will be presenting the results, followed by a Q&A session with our management team, which I will be the moderator. Mr. Simon Man has joined me for this session, and our Chairman, Mr. Victor Li, and our Deputy MD, Mr. Edmond Ip, will be joining us shortly as soon as they finish the meeting with the press. Without further ado, let's go through the presentation results. HKD 21.68 billion of reported earnings for 2022, up 2.1%.

Because of our buyback activity during 2022, earnings per share went up 3.6% to HKD 5.98. Happy to report that we have declared a final dividend of HKD 1.85, bringing full year 2022 dividend to HKD 2.28, also up 3.6% compared to last year. As at the end of year 2022, net book value per share came to HKD 105.30, up 3.3% compared to end of 2021. 68% of our principal activity revenue is deemed as recurrent, and 57% of our profit contribution, or EBIT, is also recurrent in nature.

This is a fundamental reason why we think we are well-placed to navigate through a more volatile period, in the macro environment. We hope that will long continue. 47% of our contribution from Hong Kong, 17% from the Mainland, and 37% from the U.K. and other places. Let's turn to divisional performances. Property sales. HKD 25.8 billion of revenue and HKD 10.34 billion of profit contribution. Very strong margin at 40.1%.

It's a good time to remind you that last year, well, 2021's margin of 48% was unusually high due to three projects on the Mainland with over 60% margin, which is quite unusual, as you would expect. Normally, 35%-40% margin would be what we consider pretty wholesome already. I think, this is a return to normality. The reduction of revenue and profit contribution was mainly caused by COVID restrictions, some of the lockdown on the Mainland affecting or impacting sales, as well as having fewer projects completion as well.

We had HKD 4.4 billion of contribution from Sea To Sky, HKD 1.66 billion from 21 Borrett Road, and HKD 1.55 billion from City Link, Shanghai. Those were the top three projects contributing to the sales figures in 2022. We had healthy margins, in our core markets, Hong Kong and the Mainland, 43.9% for Hong Kong and 38.3% from the Mainland. Overseas, you see, 12.5% here, but if you break it down, the U.K., we recorded roughly 30% margin, which was pretty good.

Then we have some insignificant numbers from activities in Australia, The Bahamas and Singapore. We still have almost HKD 14.9 billion of contractor sales, which we have not yet recognized, of which HKD 9.4 billion should be recognized in 2023. Most of it would be from Hong Kong and the Mainland and the U.K., as you would expect. Turning to property rental. The contribution was impacted by our disposal of 5 Broadgate. Roughly each year, we would have just under HKD 500 million of revenue from 5 Broadgate, and this disposal obviously would have a negative impact.

If you use a like-for-like comparison without any contribution of 5 Broadgate, then office revenue without 5 Broadgate would have gone down roughly by 5.1%, and overall rental revenue without 5 Broadgate would have gone down by roughly 7.5%. Margin was still very healthy at over 80%, and in the surplus on disposal of investment properties column, you will see an additional further contribution from the disposal of 5 Broadgate of HKD 738 million over and above last year at 2021 end of year carrying value. Major contribution from Cheung Kong Center, HKD 1.29 billion.

Whampoa Garden or the Whampoa, HKD 663 million, and Hutchison Logistics Centre, HKD 637 million. We have a total of 17.1 million square feet of investment property. In terms of fair value adjustments, we recorded a net increase of HKD 967 million, and the range of the cap rates used is still the conservative 4%- 8%. Turning to the hotel and service suite division. We are one of the few hotel service suite operator that had been able to record a positive contribution in 2022 and 2021. A decent increase compared to 2021 to HKD 567 million.

We are expecting a gradual recovery ahead as we continue to open up to the world. As you can see, Hong Kong actually did pretty well compared to 2021. Mainland, there was a little bit of a lag as Mainland was still largely affected by the Covid restrictions in 2022. We are hoping to see the 58% average hotel room occupancy to significantly improve over the course of 2023. Hopefully, our service suites division will continue to perform as well as they have been. Property and project management. This is rather a more good, boring division.

That is to say, they always provide us with a very steady contribution. HKD 362 million last year and a very healthy margin of 40.4%. Turning to pub operation. Again, 2,700 pubs across the U.K. We recorded a much improved profit contribution from HKD -55 million- HKD 835 million in 2022, which included a HKD 994 million one-time impairment, largely caused by the rise in discount rate as these operating assets normally would be valued based on a discounted cash flow methodology. As a result, the rise in cost of debt would make the present value of these assets a little bit lower. Infrastructure and utility asset operation.

Again, just a slide to show you the seven JVs that we have and the respective percentage under CKA. We had a full year contribution from all of these businesses in 2022. Hence, the revenue went up by 10% to HKD 22.9 billion, and contribution went up by 8% to HKD 7.5 billion. Obviously, in both for the pub operation and for the infrastructure utility operation as they are overseas in their local currency terms, the revenue and contribution would be higher than what is presented here due to the currency movement last year. I will turn the next few pages to Mr. Simon Man, and then I will wrap up. Thank you, Simon.

Simon Man
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Accounts Department, CK Asset Holdings

Thanks, Gerald. The group's interest in listed real estate investment trusts remain more or less the same at the year-end date. 33.5% in Hui Xian REIT, which owns and manages 11.8 million square feet of hotels, service suites, office, and retail properties on the mainland. 26.5% in Fortune REIT, which owns and manages 3 million square feet of retail properties in Hong Kong and Singapore. 18.2% in Prosperity REIT, which owns and manages 1.3 million square feet of office, retail, and industrial properties in Hong Kong. Hui Xian REIT is an associate of the group, and we share a net rental of HKD 178 million for the year, down 38% from last year.

Cash distribution received from Fortune REIT and Prosperity REIT amounted to HKD 273 million and were recognized as investment income, down 12% from last year. The overall return from interest in REITs H 451 million this year are down 25% from last year's HKD 598 million. In April 2022, the group completed the disposal of its aircraft leasing division. A post-tax profit of HKD 2,056,000,000 was recognized, including a gain of HKD 1 , 468,000,000 on the disposal of the aircraft assets.

At the year-end day, the group's bank and other borrowings amounted to HKD 48.6 billion, a decrease of HKD 47.9 billion from last year. Maturities within one year was HKD 2.5 billion, and maturities within two to five years is HKD 36.9 billion. Maturities beyond five years, HKD 9.2 billion. Taking into account the cash balance and deposits of HKD 61.2 billion at the year-end date, the group had a net cash surplus of HKD 12.6 billion. The group has maintained A2 stable credit rating from Moody's and A stable from Standard & Poor's.

At the year-end date, the group had a land bank of 128 million square feet, of which 28 million square feet was in Hong Kong, 67 million square feet on the Mainland, and 33 million square feet overseas. 75 million square feet was under development. 17 million square feet was held for rental. 9 million square feet was held for hotel and service street operation. 27 million square feet was held for pub operation in the United Kingdom. In March 2022, the group was awarded a tender by the Urban Renewal Authority for a combined development of projects located at To Kwa Wan.

The approximate developable gross floor area is 526,000 square feet approximately. In October 2022, the group was awarded a government tender for the site at Tuen Mun Town Lot No. 561 at Castle Peak Road, Tai Lam, Tuen Mun. The approximate developable gross floor area is 1,306,000 square feet. In December 2022, the group was awarded a tender by the Urban Renewal Authority for the development project at Queen's Road West, Sai Ying Pun. The approximate developable gross floor area is 128,000 square feet.

In December 2022 also, the group was awarded a government tender for a site at New Kowloon Inland Lot No. 6649 in the Kai Tak area. The approximate developable gross floor area is 1,417,000 square feet. I'll pass it back to Gerald to talk about ESG.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Thank you, Simon. Now, obviously, ESG, we will be publishing a separate report along with our annual reports going forward, and this topic has become a very important part of our day-to-day management and also our strategic planning going forward. In 2022, we achieved a 16% reduction on greenhouse gas emission against the baseline level measured in 2019- 2020. We have set group-level targets to reach by 2030 to reduce electricity consumption by 11%, water consumption by 5%, waste by 11%, and carbon emission by 9%.

As an active property developer, going forward, as we continue to build, we will be very conscious of materials we will use. Hopefully, we will build many more what we would call green buildings. As of now, over 40 buildings within our group have obtained the green building certificates. CK Centre II, the office complex that everyone can see next to Victoria Harbour, has advanced sustainability technology built in. Hopefully, that will be something we will all be very proud of. In terms of governance and reporting standard, we aim to continue to improve.

We know we have done much better, but we will continue to do a lot better. With the formation of the sustainability committee a couple of years ago, we now have a task force to oversee, monitor, and direct all the different stakeholders internally, and work with stakeholders externally to make sure that all of our strategic and operating decisions would have climate change governance in mind. ESG has also begun to factor into our investment decision as well in terms of what we choose to acquire or what we choose to dispose of, or how we operate.

Last year, we disposed of the aircraft leasing division. Last year, we have begun investing in high-quality social housing, particularly in the U.K., where there is a long waiting list, and particularly targeting to assist underprivileged families to be able to have a home earlier rather than later. The group has also participated in Hong Kong's Starter Homes Pilot Project, so we will be selling certain units in the development to serve first-time home buyers at a discount to market value. Now, before our two senior management members join us, we turn the floor over to Q&A session.

You may begin putting your questions into our online platform, and then I will try to gather them, consolidate them, so we can conduct the next phase of this discussion efficiently. ESG sustainability highlights. To business units highlights, if you look at property development, here you can see City Point and Trinity Towers, Wong Chuk Hang Station Package 3, Sea To Sky, and Seaside Sonata, all have received BEAM Plus green building certificates. Hotels and service suites operation have really turned over a new leaf in terms of how they operate with operating better, using better material, all of that into their day-to-day operating plan.

29 of our existing managed properties have received good or excellent ratings on the BEAM Plus existing rating Version 2.0 selective scheme. We have begun installing solar panels across many of our assets as well. Greene King, a leader in this area, have pledged to become carbon net zero by 2040. They have recently set Science Based Targets and committed to reducing greenhouse gas emission by 50% by 2030, and procure 80% renewable energy by 2025.

These are very aggressive targets, and hopefully they will be a leader in that space. Northumbrian Water, U.K. Power Networks, ista, Dutch Enviro Energy have all taken decarbonization very seriously and have begun initiatives committing to net zero targets ahead of the relevant government authority. I am already seeing many questions from you guys. I know that Mr. Victor Li and Mr. Edmond Ip are I think they are coming over now, but I think there are a number of more operational specific questions that I see. Maybe before they join us, I will attempt to take on these more operational level questions.

When they get here, then we can post the more strategic ones to them. Keep the questions coming. Well, one of the questions says that we have HKD 14.9 billion of contracted sales not yet recognized, and which are the projects that we expect to book in 2023. As I said in the presentation, there is about HKD 9.4 billion of contracted sales from development projects, that we expect to book in 2023. And they will be El Futuro in Kau To Shan, Sha Tin, as well as Grand Jeté Phase I and #LYOS in Tuen Mun. Another question is that other developers in Hong Kong have reported revaluation impairment for their investment properties while we have not, whether we have any comment.

Just to say that the cap rates we use as outlined in the presentation are always on the conservative side, as everyone knows. And so the pressure on impairment last year was not high, even with rent softening. Also, the main reason for the net increase in fair value was actually because of the two under development projects, C KC II and 13 Hok Yuen Street, as well as Hutchison Logistics Centre. All three recorded a decent uplift in valuation. But we do think cap rate expansion for the whole sector actually may be on the cards if interest rates continue to be elevated. I see that Mr. Victor Li has just joined us. We will start to pose the more high-level strategic questions to Mr. Li, if you are ready.

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

Yes, I am. I just come back from the press, so sorry. Apologies for slight delay. Let me know what are the questions for me.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

We dealt with two more operational level questions. We will start with the other questions now. The first one is, are you happy with your results in general and any overall comments that you may have?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

I am never happy with any results, if that is the answer. But I think the one thing I am happy about is that it shows our management philosophy is serving us well. The diversified approach makes us more resilient. And our financial discipline, even though sometimes it is tempting, it serves us well. We can resist temptation of doing a deal. Especially in our current environment, in the last couple of years, what we have achieved is that, we have choices, and we utilize those choices. Property by nature is always cyclical.

If we only have one industry, one property development industry in one city, then it is very difficult to play the cycles of that market, because it is very dangerous not to reinvest whatever you have earned right back into the business. But the unique nature of CK Asset is that we have choices. When we see margins getting a bit thinner or getting more risky on the property side, we can elect to divert a little bit of our capital into-- In the last couple of years, for example, infrastructure, pubs, aircraft or properties in other countries, including U.K.

That gives us the choice of allocating capital when we see margins or risks in one industry increasing. On the other hand, when we see the margins improving, then we can divest some of our other businesses and reinvesting a bit more into the property in Hong Kong. I mean, the last couple of years, I think that is exactly what we have done. We have bought and sold some overseas properties. We have bought and sold some aircrafts. We have increased our exposure in infrastructure, which gives us very good recurring income. And I must add one thing.

The infrastructure is a better performer at a higher inflation rate because the principal regulated asset value increases with inflation. It's not just the benefit for one year, but the benefit for the future. All through future. When you have one year of high inflation rate, your principal moves up by that inflation rate. Also in Hong Kong, we have also sold and bought properties. You notice I use buy and sold in opposite sides. That's what CK Asset has been doing. We have choices, but we use our choice and our decision with a very, very strict financial discipline. Gerald, did I answer your the question?

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Yeah. I think you actually helped answer a number of related questions, so I'll be a little bit more selective. Because the next question was about whether we will continue to buy land in Hong Kong and elsewhere, which Mr. Li already touched on.

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

I don't think we're making a distinction between whether I like Hong Kong more or less or any other industry more or less. It's more to do with different parts of the cycle, so that you can move among different parts of the cycles in different industries.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Yeah. Mr. Edmond Ip has just joined us as well, so we now have

Edmond Ip
Deputy Managing Director, CK Asset Holdings

Hi, good afternoon to all.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

The next question. The Mong Kok site, I think it's the commercial site recently bought by a competitor. The result seems to indicate that CK Asset is very pessimistic on commercial property investment. Is that still the case following the reopening of the border?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

I wouldn't say I'm pessimistic on commercial property. We're building CKC II, sort of trophy, central water view, harbor view landmark building. I would more say that the capital value or the cap rate given to commercial property may be challenged. The unique situation for the ultra-low cap rate for commercial properties in Hong Kong in the last decade may or may not be with us forever. So it may join the global norm of normal cap rates.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Thank you, Mr. Li.

Edmond Ip
Deputy Managing Director, CK Asset Holdings

Or else, players in the industries may not like us too much.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Contribution from your property sales division dropped by 43% in 2022, and only about HKD 9.4 billion of contractor sales is expected to be booked in 2023. Are you concerned about the potential drop in earnings next year due to the lack of bookings?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

Well, we still have nine months to go in 2023. On a day-to-day basis, we should try to do our job as well as we can to execute the sales. But if you take a step back and look at it from a high level, isn't it a good fortune that we didn't buy too much land at the height of the market a couple of years ago? So that our average cost in our land bank is now lower.

But the side effect of that, obviously, is that your completion will be lower in the short term. But I think most shareholders would look at property companies as sort of our net asset value and our average cost of our property and our earnings ability in the next couple of years, rather than the short-term P&L on the next quarter or next year.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

The next question actually is on an announcement we just made. So this fund manager is really up to date. They just saw an announcement regarding the launch of Grand Jeté Phase II. It looks like we had priced the project. It looks like you have priced the project at market clearing levels. We have seen this move by CKA in past cycles. Any comments on this strategy?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

Well, if we can buy land at lower prices and still make a profit by selling condos, isn't it the Hong Kong government's and Hong Kong people's wish and policy to generate more flats and more affordable prices? That's exactly what we've been doing. I think 60% of this launch of units will have prices below HKD 4 million. At today's mortgage rate and mortgage insurance rate, it's very affordable to a lot of people. I didn't invent the nickname, but Justin comes out with this name recently in Cantonese [Non-English content] What does it translate to English? A deep water tornado. I think that will have quite a bit of a rippling effect in the market.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Next question on cap rates, which we already answered. The CK Group has completed the sale of 25% of Northumbrian Water recently. Will you be divesting more assets in the future, like UKPN?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

We have now a net cash position and a good recurring income portfolio. Actually we do have a good war chest of looking at acquisitions. Any disposal of assets will be purely on the attractiveness of the deal. I don't think strategically we're looking to dispose of anything at the moment.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Overall Hong Kong office vacancy has remained high. Do you expect further drop in property rental contribution for your office or retail assets in 2023? Could you please give an update on CK C Phase II?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

The drop in our rental contribution was really mainly due to the disposal of 5 Broadgate in London. We took the profit. Obviously, the rental comes down. But in terms of Hong Kong office rental, it will continue to be quite competitive for the tenants. I am more optimistic about Class A office buildings in Core Central. I use the word Core Central. At the end of the day, this is almost the definitive Hong Kong financial center. This is it.

These buildings in Core Central defines Hong Kong's status as a financial center in the world. I am good confidence that this position as the financial center will continue for Hong Kong. There will be some times when it is more difficult, but for Core Central and the financial center of Hong Kong, I think this position is going to continue. For CKC Phase II, should be completed in late 2023. I think it is just topped up. Pre-letting efforts will be underway.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Thank you, Mr. Li. What is your outlook for the pub business?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

Sales have recovered to pre-COVID levels. But that is partly because of inflation and increases in prices. Volume, if you count number of drinks or food, it is still about 10% below pre-COVID. There is room for growth. The challenge for the business will be inflationary pressure on utilities, raw material, labor costs, et c. The team is doing what they can to mitigate the impact. But some Hong Kongers who have never been to U.K. often confuse pubs with bars. Pubs are not bars. Pubs, it is almost like an integral part of U.K. culture.

I think it is a combination of using Hong Kong terms, our neighborhood club house together with our tea house together with a bar. That is when you see your relatives, good friends. It is most probably the same place you go to when you are a kid versus when you are middle-aged. So, it's a gathering place for people to meet. We've seen it through stress tests, and believe me, pubs have gone through the biggest stress test, I think, for ever in history through COVID. I think they passed the stress test with good colors.

The recovery pace is pretty good. Given the headwind, the recovery rate is pretty good. We believe we've bought something which I call the human infrastructure. To start with, we only property hold. This is also a property business. In the last couple of years, we've done trading of these properties. Some bought, some sold, some redeveloped. I'm still hopeful that when life returns to normal and when the inflation pressure is not so serious, pubs will be a good contributor.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

The next question is on infrastructure and utility. Infrastructure and utility division now exceeds 30% of your principal activity contribution. Any plan to further increase the weighting?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

I think it really depends on the project that we can get our hands on. We have a very strict financial discipline, so I would not sit in head office and say, "I want to increase this division contribution by X amount." I would say, "Let's look at new deals." If the new deals are attractive and we think that the risk is low, then we will certainly grow that business. Infrastructure, we've also stretched the definition of what is infrastructure. We will expand it further to what I call society infrastructure. You look at the businesses that CKI has been. Including waste to energy, collecting garbage and turning it into energy. I think that's very much a society's infrastructure. We'll continue to look for those.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

You are now the largest unit holder for both Fortune and Prosperity REITs, and the unit prices have corrected a lot. Any chance you will privatize them?

Edmond Ip
Deputy Managing Director, CK Asset Holdings

I'm not going to answer whether I'm going to privatize the company. They generate good cash flow for CKA, and we're happy with them. With higher interest rate, of course, prices will decrease a little bit. That's the nature of that business. We cannot speculate on whether we'll privatize or not.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Next question is on hotel. With the reopening of the border, what is your outlook for your hotel segment?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

Should be better, finally. I should describe our hotel groups maybe to the analysts in today's meeting. We have two types of rooms in the original design. Some of them are suites that can be occupied longer term. Some are regular daily hotels. Generally, in the company, we refer them to monthly versus dailies. The monthlies are not affected by the pandemic and this whole stress situation for the last three years. They are steady contributors and very good business. The daily ones, of course, are miserable.

Some of the daily ones have been converted to monthly ones. That's why-- A lso this difficult period, our whole hotel division has been regularly continuing to be okay profitable, generally speaking, throughout the whole period. We're not in red. When the tourist arrivals pick up, obviously, the dailies on a per square foot level may make more money than the monthly, then we switch them back. I think the magic this year, there's something that I want to share with the market, is that two phases. We have choices, and we have financial discipline.

Whatever we do is not because I like it or Edmond likes it or Gerald likes it or Simon likes it. It's more because of the formula that we all share, and if the formula works, then we make the choices. The choices allow us to play the different cycles in the property market, both in Hong Kong and overseas. Allow us to play the interest rate cycles and also allow us to play the daily versus monthly, because we have the architecture that was built years ago for that switch.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

The next question. CK Asset's share price was negatively impacted last September with the drop or slump of the sterling exchange rate. Are you concerned that the fluctuations in exchange rates will impact the value of your assets overseas?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

Let me try to answer this a couple ways. From a hedging perspective, we have been as prudent as can be as the cost of our international investments are all fully hedged. While the profit contribution from individual business may go up and down due to exchange rates, the principle are well protected. To further elaborate, maybe I use infrastructure as an example. Let's pick U.K. as example. With the sterling down and interest rate up, our earnings from the regulated assets are adjusted accordingly. So interest rates are passed along.

On top of that, there's an adjustment for the-- Now, this I hope you pay attention to, not only to the revenue and to the operating costs, but an adjustment to the principle of the business. Principle meaning the Regulated Asset Value. Let's say one year inflation is high, the principle will be raised by that interest rate, which means that it will benefit the earnings ability of that particular business for all the years to come.

The benefit of a lower currency, whatever that currency is, and lower currency usually comes with a higher inflation, will bring us cost in the short term, but extra profit contribution in the future. I start to sound like an economics professor, which is not my job. But I'm sure Gerald and Ivan can explain to the details of that regulation in detail. It's a public document that can be viewed.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

The next question. CKA is in a net cash position. Could you share with us your outlook on CKA's 2023 plan and also your capital deployment plan to reinvest some of the cash?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

Well, I'd like to say we have a crystal ball, but we don't, but we're lucky. We divest of certain assets, apparently at pretty good times. We have a choice. I keep using that word. We have choice, and we're financially disciplined, and we can be selective. We have a good war chest. We are always on the outlook for new deals, which allow us to pick up land at good prices recently. What else can I say?

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

The next question has something to do with interest rates as well. Are you concerned with the rising interest rates environment, and its impact on your interest expense? What proportion of your borrowings is fixed?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

We're net cash. Over half of our borrowings are fixed, so everything is quite manageable.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Any plans for further share buyback?

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

Sorry, I just have to read this. Sorry. Question about share buyback?

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Yes. Any further share buyback.

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

It's one of our midterm strategy. In 2022, we spent close to HKD 2.5 billion buying back over 49 million shares. So more than any listed peers in Hong Kong. If I may also ask that analysts and reporters, that's what I said earlier too in our media meeting, please look at our earnings per share rather than the total earnings. Because our dividend policy also revolves around on a per share basis. Our earnings, dividends, everything we look at per share, because looking at a total is not very meaningful when you have such a large buyback program.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

While absolute DPS is higher than 2021, the increase was mild compared to your impressive disposals, which you have done last year. What should investors expect from CKA as a dividend policy going forward?

Edmond Ip
Deputy Managing Director, CK Asset Holdings

Come on, we just delivered growth in profit and a growth in dividend. How many property companies in Hong Kong are increasing dividend this year? I don't think that number would be very large. I think our dividend policy will be in line with our profit. It will go up, it may come down, depending on the market. But we are very disciplined, and we're working for shareholders. Our job is to deliver growth in value to shareholders. And sometimes that cycle may be longer than one or two years. And in the last five years, that's what we've been doing.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

There's just one last question that I think Mr. Li can quickly answer, because over 20 analysts have asked this question. They're talking about the CKH submitting a plan for United Dockyards, whether CKH will become a developer instead of CKA.

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

Let's get the plan approved first. It's a piece of land owned by [H] Hutchison United Dockyard. It's a dockyard piece of land. And the reason we have that opportunity is we found out that the government land that is sitting next to it does not have land access. The only land access to the government piece of land is via the HUD piece of land. So it's waterfront, it's close to major arteries. The only reason why a lot of people don't realize it's underneath a cliff when you are at the top of Tsing Yi.

So unless you stand really close to the cliff, you can't see us. But if you're crossing Tsing Ma Bridge, walking, and look down, you can see us. But I question how many people walk by there. Now, if and when it's approved, I have a feeling, I use the word feeling, that CKA and CKHH must find a way to pool our resources together. Because a lot of planning, construction, and expertise is within CKA. And expertise in CKHH is the ship repair and maintenance part. So I have a feeling we have opportunities to work together again. But that's a bit too early.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

That is all the questions that we have, and our IR team will continue to work with you on the other operational level questions. But I thank our management for joining this webcast, and thank you for joining our results presentation, everyone.

Victor Li
Chairman, CK Asset Holdings

Thank you very much. So I will switch to CKHH, analysts meeting. Thank you.

Gerald Ma
Executive Committee Member and General Manager of Corporate Business Development Department, CK Asset Holdings

Thank you all. Bye.