Earnings Call: H1 2019

Jul 31, 2019

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to today's Pacific Basin twenty nineteen Interim Results Announcement Call. I'm pleased to present Chief Executive Officer, Matt Spurgeland, for the first part of this call. Mr. Berglund, please begin. Thank you, and welcome, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Matt Berglund. I'm CEO of the company, and I'm joined by our CFO, Peter Schultz. Please turn to Slide two for our interim results highlights. We made a net profit of $8,200,000 an underlying loss of $600,000 and a positive EBITDA of USD 101,000,000. Weaker drybulk market conditions early in 2019 negatively affected our results for the half year, but we benefited from our continued TCE outperformance as well as our competitive cost structure. We have taken delivery of five modern Supramax vessels and one Handysize in the year to date. Two of the Supramaxes were delivered after the reporting period. We also completed the sale of an older, smaller Handysize, which we committed to sell last year. These transactions have increased our own fleet to 115 ships on the water today. And including Sharkard ships, we operated an average of two thirty Handysize and Supramax ships overall during the first half of the year. In May, we closed $115,000,000 revolving credit facility, carrying a competitive interest cost of LIBOR plus 1.35%. We will be fully repaying our 125,000,000 convertible bond in August. Some of the negative demand disruptions from the first half are easing, and market rates in July have been increasing, especially in The Atlantic. Slide three. In the weaker market environment, we generated average Handysize and Supramax daily TCE earnings of $9,170.60 dollars per day net. We covered 56% of our handysize days for the 2019 at about 9,050 and 76% of our supermax days at about 10,790 per day net. Our cover numbers for the second half of 'nineteen so far primarily reflect the voyages fixed during the weaker earlier months, while the first half actual numbers include voyages from the stronger rates fixed in 2018. And hence, our forward covered TTEs are slightly lower than our first half actuals. Regarding our 2020 cover, please note that it is backhaul heavy. Slide four. The blue bars in the graphs represent our average quarterly TCE earnings, while the lines represent average quarterly spot market indexes. You can see clearly that the three year positive trend from the 45 low of early twenty sixteen was broken, and average Handysize and Supermax spot market rates in the 2019 were 3026% lower, respectively, compared to the same period last year. However, in comparison, our daily TCE numbers were down only six percent and seven percent, respectively. Our outperformance increased in the period as it typically does in a weakening market due to the effect of having cargo contract cover and due to the one- to three month lag between spot market fixtures and execution of those voyages. You should assume that in a rising market, as we have seen recently, our outperformance narrows a bit. Slide five shows the spot market rates in more detail, and you can see that 2019 started weaker than the last two years with a more pronounced Chinese New Year dip, which significantly impacted market freight rates in all drybulk segments. But the market has since gained momentum, especially in July for Supramaxes and larger ships in the Atlantic region. In Slide six, we explain why the market was weak in the first half and what factors can make it stronger. In addition to the usual seasonal lull in activity early in the year and especially over Chinese New Year, a few one off negative demand factors undermined the drybulk market in the first half. The U. S.-China Trade War and African swine fever both impacted soybean imports to China. Flooding in the Mississippi River impeded grain exports from The United States, and damage to mining infrastructure disrupted Brazilian iron ore exports, while severe weather disrupted Australian iron ore exports. On the positive side, drybulk activity is typically seasonally stronger in the second half of the year, and there are several other factors that can continue to drive a market recovery. Our business continues to see healthy levels of minor bulk growth, infrastructure development stimulus in China. Chinese steel production is at an all time high, and coal imports to China were strong in the first half. Iron ore exports from Brazil and Australia have resumed after the first half disruptions. We are seeing strong grain volumes out of the Black Sea and East Coast South America. And last but not least, reduced supply as ships are taken out of service for scrubber and ballast water treatment system installations and slow steaming incentives for the majority of ships as they start to burn the more expensive low sulfur fuel oil later this year. As you model our performance for the remainder of the year, please remember that there is a lag between spot market fixtures and execution of voyages. The recovery is so far more Atlantic centered, while we typically have a majority of our ships in The Pacific, and we have an unusually many ships that will be out of service and in The Pacific for dockings and installations of scrubbers and or ballast water treatment systems. Longer term, on Slide seven, Clarkson estimates total drybulk demand will grow 1.3% for the full year of 2019 and three point one percent in 2020. Minor bulk is expected to drive demand in the coming years, with Clarkson estimating global minor bulk demand growth of 4.5% for the full year and 4.8% in 2020. And we see growth particularly in Chinese imports of minor bulks such as bauxite, nickel and manganese ore. The weakness this year is primarily in iron ore and grain, but this is now bouncing back. And Clarksons forecast growth in iron ore and grain again next year, although not as strong growth as in minor bulbs. Please turn to Slide eight, where we look at the supply side. Clarksons estimates a net increase in overall drybulk capacity of around 2.7% for the full year. Scrapping increased to 0.5% of existing drybulk capacity in the first half, but it's still at a very low level. The supply fundamentals for the handysize and supermax segments looks more favorable. And as you can see, the line in the right hand graph shows that net fleet growth is on a steadily reducing trajectory from 5.7% in 2015 to an estimated 1.3% for 2020. On Slide nine, we contrast in further detail both the order book and age profile of the smaller ships with the larger vessel sizes. Handysize benefits from the smallest order book and the highest percentage of older ships, pointing to a better balance between new deliveries and scrapping going forward, while for Capesize and larger vessels, the situation is the reverse. In Slide 10, we show Clarkson's yearly demand and supply levels for the overall drybulk markets in the chart on the left. Estimated tonne mile demand growth of 1.3% for 2019 is outpaced by net supply growth of 2.7%. But Clarkson estimates demand to grow faster than supply again in 2020. On the right are two graphs showing the same demand and supply data, but separated out for the minor bulk and major bulk segments. As you can see, it looks more favorable for the smaller segments with demand growing significantly more than supply. Slide 11. Despite weaker freight market conditions, values for modern ships have been relatively stable in 2019. New ship ordering is expected to be restrained, discouraged by the continued gap between newbuilding and secondhand prices as well as uncertainty over upcoming environmental regulations and their impact on future vessel designs. We still see upside in secondhand vessel values, and hence, we'll continue to cautiously grow by looking opportunistically at good quality secondhand ship acquisitions. I will now hand you over to Peter, who will present the financials. Peter? Thank you very much, Mats. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Please turn to Slide 13. The group posted a net profit of $8,200,000 in the 2019 compared to $30,800,000 in the 2018. However, EBITDA increased from $99,300,000 to $101,100,000 due to the adoption of the new lease accounting standard, HKFRS 16. Adjusted for these accounting changes, our EBITDA would have been $78,900,000 Owned vessel costs increased during the year, mainly because we added more owned vessels to our fleet, but we also had slight increases in the per vessel per day costs. G and A increased by $2,100,000 primarily due to an increase in our staffing overheads, but it has reduced on a per vessel per day basis. The underlying loss of $600,000 was lower than the net profit, mainly because the net profit takes into account an $8,600,000 mark to market gain from our unrealized bunker swaps due to the increase in bunker prices since the start of the year. Since the underlying result was roughly breakeven, the Board has decided not to declare any interim dividend for the period but will consider a dividend of 50% of net profit for the full year in line with our policy. Now please turn to Slide 14. Before moving on to the detailed numbers, allow me to explain the impact of the new accounting standard, HKFRS 16 leases, on our P and L, balance sheet and cash flow, which is important to understand, particularly since we have not restated previous periods. The new standard requires us to capitalize all our charter in contracts over twelve months in duration on our balance sheet as right of use assets and corresponding lease liabilities. The right of use assets are depreciated in a straight line over the remaining life of the charter, and the lease liability approves interest and is amortized over the remaining life. Before adoption of HK IFRS 16, all long term charter hire costs were just expensed over the P and L as operating costs. Charter in contracts with a remaining life of less than twelve months, which are the vast majority of our charter commitments, are not affected by the new standard and are still treated as operating expenditure in the P and L. In general, charter out contracts are also not affected by the new standard. The effect of the adoption of HK IFRS 16 on our revenue and net profit is minor, but our EBITDA decreases as long term charter hire costs, which were previously treated as an operating expense, are now accounted for as depreciation and interest. Similarly, in our cash flow statement, operating cash flow increases and financing cash flow reduces as long term charter in costs are reclassified from operating expenditure to interest on and amortization of lease liabilities. Now please turn to Slide 15. Compared to the first half of last year, our Handysize revenue base decreased by 3%, and our TCE earnings fell by 6% to $9,170 per day, resulting in a handysize contribution of $21,200,000 Our Supramax revenue base increased by 5%, mainly due to acquisitions of Supramax vessels, and our TCE earnings dropped by 7% to $10,860 per day, resulting in a Supramax contribution of $7,400,000 The otherwise stable Post Panamax contribution has reduced by $05,000,000 because of the adoption of HKFRS 16. On Slide 16, our Handyslides owned vessel cost increased by 2.4% to $7,590 per day, mainly due to higher operating expenses related to crewing, repair and maintenance, ballast water treatment system operation and IMO twenty twenty preparation. Our depreciation cost was slightly increased because of the installation of ballast water treatment systems. In relation to charter in cost, we no longer have the benefit of onerous contract write backs. And as you can see, the cost per day of the long term charters were above market rate, and we are losing money on these contracts. These are gradually expiring, and we are replacing them with owned ships at lower breakeven levels and with short and medium term charter in ships. In addition to the direct vessel cost, we have G and A, which we divide between owned vessels at nine forty dollars per day and chartered in ships at $540 per day. The blended G and A per day across our entire owned and chartered in fleet is $730 per day. Now please turn to Slide 17. Our Supramax owned vessel daily cost increased by 1.6 to $8,220 per day, again mainly due to higher operating expenses and depreciation costs, partly offset by slightly lower finance cost per day. As is the case in the Handysize segment, our cost of long term charter Supramaxes is above market rates and loss making in 2019 so far. On the next slide, we have significant operational leverage. And on this slide, we aim to illustrate how our earnings move in relation to changes in freight rates. The chart sets out our first half twenty nineteen Handysize and Sukramax TCEs per day compared to the all in cost per day depending on whether a vessel was owned or chartered in on a long term or short term basis. Our owned and long term chartered in vessels have largely fixed costs, and an increase or decrease in achieved freight rates will directly impact the underlying profit. We say that for each $1,000 change in daily TCE, the underlying profit and operating cash flow of the group will change between 35,000,000 and 40,000,000 taking into account that we typically have 20% to 25% long term forward cargo cover for the next twelve months at any point in time. It is important to remember that our reported 2018 long term trough in rates were positively affected by a $16,100,000 release of onerous contract provisions, which will not be available in 2019 as these were these provisions were fully written back at the 2018. Our short term and index vessels are largely variable costs, which depend on the freight market level when the chart is was entered into. Hence, for the purpose of this analysis, we do not assume any relevant sensitivity for short term and index metals from overall movement in the freight markets. Now please turn to Slide 19. At the June 2019, we had vessel and other fixed assets of $1,800,000,000 Our vessels were financed by $1,000,000,000 of interest bearing liabilities. Cash and deposits stood at $314,000,000 giving a net borrowings position of $687,000,000 At the June 2019, Op net borrowings were 37% of the net book value of our owned vessels, which is a three percentage point increase on the 2018. Now please turn to Slide 20. During the first half of the year, adjusting to include all long and short term charter hire payments, we had an operating cash flow of $72,000,000 This is roughly in line with the operating cash flow in the same period last despite the weaker market environment as the cash flow last year was impacted by buildup in working capital. In May 2019, we closed a new $150,000,000 syndicated seven year reducing revolving credit facility secured against 10 vessels at a very competitive interest cost of LIBOR plus 1.35%. Including this new loan facility, net of scheduled amortization, we increased our borrowings by $37,000,000 CapEx of $106,000,000 during the half year included cash payments for acquired vessels, regular maintenance CapEx, dry dockings as well as the installation of ballast water treatment systems at scrubbers. A total of four vessels were added to our fleet in the 2019, plus two more in July, and we docked some 22 vessels during the period. In general, 2019 is a major investment year for Pacific Basin. We have chosen to do a large number of dry dockings, including investments in ballast water treatment system and scrubbers, setting up for what we believe will be a stronger market ahead. Consequently, we would have lower dry docking CapEx next year, Including proceeds of $6,000,000 from the sale of one of our older Handysize vessels and the payment of $22,000,000 in dividends, our cash position decreased by $28,000,000 during the period to $314,000,000 As almost all of our holders of the convertible bonds exercised their right to put the bonds back to the company at 100% of the principal amount, we paid out $122,000,000 in July. We have exercised our option to redeem all the remaining convertible bonds for which we will pay the $3,000,000 balance to bondholders in August. Pro form a for this redemption and the additional drawdown on our revolving credit facilities following the delivery of the last two Supramaxes in July, our cash position stands at $212,000,000 This is a strong cash position sufficient to service our debts, meet our capital expenditure requirements and continue to grow our own fleet should opportunities present themselves. I now hand you back to Matt for his wrap up. Thank you, Peter. We recap our business model on Slide 22. This is a strong platform that continues to deliver a 90% plus laden versus ballast ratio at a premium over index earnings. It takes all the components of our business model listed to the left of this slide to deliver this high utilization and outperformance. But as shown in Slide 23, it is not only on a TCE level that we are competitive. Our vessel operating expenses is well controlled at $3,990 per day, driven by the scale benefits and uniformity of our fleet and our sector leading in house technical management team. Our G and A overheads averaged $7.30 per ship day, spread across our total fleet of owned and chartered in ships. We achieved this competitive G and A primarily through scale benefits, efficient systems and a lot of hard work structure. Our access to capital and cost of capital also represent a significant advantage as our fleet is financed through long term secured facilities at the most competitive cost in our industry and because we focus on primarily good quality secondhand Japanese built ships rather than newbuildings. To demonstrate the strength and to quantify the value of our platform, we encourage you to compare those four numbers with other listed drybulk companies. Slide 24 provides a quick update on environmental regulatory changes coming. There are three recently introduced regulations that impact our industry. The first requires the installation of ballast water treatment systems. 30 of our owned vessels are now fitted with ballast water treatment systems, and we have arranged to retrofit our remaining handysize and Supramax ships by the 2022. The second new regulation is IMO's global 0.5% sulfur limit, which takes effect on the 01/01/2020. We expect the majority of the global drybulk fleet, especially smaller vessels, such as Handyside ships, will comply by using more expensive low sulfur fuel, and we are not fitting any scrubbers on our 82 owned Handyside ships. We are preparing thoroughly for this new regulation, including cleaning our fuel tanks, securing availability of good quality compliant fuel and training our crews to ensure compliance and seamless service delivery to our customers. Some owners of larger vessels with higher fuel consumption, including some Supramaxes, are planning to comply by continuing to burn cheaper heavy fuel oil in combination with installing scrubbers. We have chosen a balanced approach with scrubbers successfully fitted and operational on 10 of our Supramaxes so far. And we have arrangements in place with repair yards and scrubber makers to install scrubbers on the majority of our own Supramax vessels. Including chartered in ships, we expect 85% to 90% of our combined Handysize and Supramax fleet will comply by burning low sulfur fuel. The future fuel price differential is uncertain, but having 10% to 50% of our overall fleet scrubber fitted provides us some optionality in how we manage our fuel needs to comply with the new rules. The dry bulk freight market is expected to benefit in the 2019 and early twenty twenty from many larger ships being taken out of service for several weeks for scrubber installation. We believe the market for smaller drybulk ships like ours will benefit also over the longer term as they will consume more expensive low sulfur fuel and therefore are incentivized to operate at slower speeds, which reduces supply. Finally, the third new regulation coming is IMO's ambitious longer term strategy to cut CO2 and total greenhouse gas emissions from shipping. We believe that these environmental regulations will discourage new ship ordering until new lower emissions ship designs become available. On Slide 25, we share with you a summary of our key strategic priorities for medium to longer term. We will maintain our business model as a fully integrated ship owner and operator, both asset heavy and asset light, with a strong focus on safety, cargo and customers, with an office network that keeps us close to customers all around the world. We will continue to grow our own fleet with quality secondhand acquisitions and opportunistically but cautiously trading up smaller, older ships to larger, younger ships. We still own a smaller proportion of our Supramax ships, so expect us to grow our own Supramax fleet more than Handysize. We are still avoiding contracting newbuildings due to their higher price, lower return and because of the uncertainty over new environmental regulations and their impact on future vessel designs. We will continue to reduce the number of ships we take in on long term charters, replacing them with owned ships and with short- and medium term charter in ships. Ships. Again, a very important task this year is to continue to prepare thoroughly for IMO twenty twenty, both technically, operationally, financially and commercially. As already mentioned, we have chosen to do a lot of dry dockings this year, especially in the second half, to install ballast water treatment systems and scrubbers on a majority of our Supramaxes to set us up for what we believe will be stronger years ahead. Hence, 2019 is a bit of an interim year so far with a lot of both one off market disruptions and IMO twenty twenty preparations, causing a pause in the market and earnings momentum. However, we do think it will come back. Wrapping up on Slide '26. We have worked hard over several years to streamline and focus the company and grow our core business. With our outperforming business model, including experienced staff and very importantly, a much larger owned fleet with competitive cost structure, we are well positioned for the future. We expect to see seasonally stronger average freight market conditions in the 2019, and we have seen stronger rates in the last few weeks, especially in The Atlantic. But again, do remember the lag between spot market fixtures and the voyage execution, the differential in market strength between Atlantic and Pacific and that our fleet positioning is more geared towards the Pacific. Overall, the demand and supply fundamentals for the years ahead look favorable for our Handysight and Supramax segment, and we are well positioned to benefit. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes the results presentation, and lines will now open for any questions you may have. Operator? Thank you, sir. We will now begin our question and answer session. If you a question for any of today's speakers, please press star one on your telephone keypad, and you will enter a queue. After you are announced, please ask your question. If you find that your question has been answered before, it's time. Please press the pound or the hash key to cancel your question. Again, it's star one if you have any question. We have the first question from the line of Andrew Lee. Please ask your question. Hello. Hi. Hi. Hi. Thanks for your time. I have two questions. Are we the first question I have is, are we starting to see any U. S. Grain exports picking up? So I think that could be a driver going forward. Just a little bit of view of when do you think that will start rebounding? Second question is this whole dry docking and installation of scrubbers. How long additional time does that take to install the scrubbers away from from the normal drydocking? And if that if it takes a lot a significant longer period, how much supply or effective supply do you think that will be taken out of the system into the second half? Thanks, Andrew. As regards to US grain, the lack of soybean early in the year there, which fourth quarter last year, which is the high season, is kind of back to normal as we bought soybean from US, exports from US. But this is not the high season. Right? So what's partly driving the market up now is is South America and the Black Sea. We see strong grain volumes out of both Black Sea that have, you know, good crop this year. And and And also although it's unseasonal, we see good volumes out of South America, and Argentina have a much better crop this year than last year. Volumes out of The U. S. Have been decent. Now it's corn moving, not soybean. But it have been impeded still remains impeded by strong floodings, high water levels in the Mississippi. So it's South America and Black Sea that's driving rain right now. As regards dry docking time for scrubber installation, if it's a ship that dry docks anyway, the dry docking time would typically be between fifteen to twenty days. And for us, we are assuming, you know, fifteen, eighteen, twenty let's call it fifteen to eighteen extra days for these for the scrubber installation. So I just wanna follow-up. On on the on the supermarkets that you have thrown the scrubbers, have those already started? Or is that a second half is that it for the second half? So we have done 10 so far, and we have arrangements in place to install scrubbers on a majority of the the supra. But it's also installing ballast water treatment systems on all the ships, not only supra, but also handys that are drydocking. So we have a busy drydocking year. We estimate roughly 50 drydocking this year, of which 22 was done in the first half to get you a feel for the dry dock heat activity. You mentioned, does this scrubber installations have an impact on the market? And yes, we do highlight that we think it will. It has already arguably, right? The recent market uptick started with the bigger ships with Brazil iron ore returning, resuming at the same time as many of these larger ships have been repositioned to the Pacific, to China for scrubber installations. So yes, we do think it has an impact on the market, and it's shrinking supply. And longer term, we think that the low sulfur fuel will incentivize the majority of drybulk ships to go slower, right, which in turn pushes up freight rates due to the supply shrinking. Okay. Maybe one final question. This for IMO 2020, January 1, is there a grace period where you can still use the high sulfur? And if if there is, do you think that will be extended? There is no grace period, and we think it will be very strictly enforced. You are allowed to carry the heavy fuel oil until March, but you're not allowed to to burn it. So you it means from an old practical standpoint that all ships need to get rid of the heavy fuel oil well before December 31. So most of the work will happen well before year end, and you do not wanna get stuck with three and a half percent heavy fuel oil onboard your ship because you're gonna have to debunker it, which is costly and takes time, etcetera. Okay. Thanks for your time for making part of the call during T8. Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Sally MacDonald. Please ask your question. Hi, good afternoon guys. Can you hear me okay? Yes. Hi, thank you very much for the presentation. I wonder if I can talk ask you a little bit about China's dash for gas and the shift to higher standards for emissions, which is like lower emissions from all sorts of businesses that currently burn coal, whether at when those are steel plants or power plants or whatever. How do you think that's gonna impact your business, please? Yes. Chinese coal imports were up 6% in the first half this year, so continued strong growth in their seaborne coal imports. Chinese coal imports are driven by many things, and it's very hard to forecast them because it's driven by price arbitrage, it's driven by political decisions, etcetera. It's true that China are very serious about their efforts to improve the environment and lower emissions, but that also has a substitution effect where they are incentivized to import higher quality coal grades and reduce their production of lower grade domestic coal. But seaborne imports remain quite a small percentage of China's total coal. It's about 7% or 8% of China's total coal. Domestically. So the seaborne is a little bit on and off. But we think coal as a commodity has a very long remaining life. There's someone told me there's 250 coal fired power plants as part of the Belt and Road initiatives, you know, in in other countries. There's a lot of new coal fired power plants coming on stream in in other Asia. So coal is showing very strong resilience so far. As regards to their other efforts to lower emissions, they have already implemented low sulfur rules along their coast, etcetera. So they're serious about this, but, you know, we think that the low sulfur fuel regulations will be a net positive for the drybulk industry and for our company because the cost of the higher fuel is passed on to the customer. The customer is very used to carry the fluctuation in prices, while the higher fuel cost has a speed reducing effect, and that tightens up supply, which is pushing up the balance between supply and demand. Okay. That's great. Thank you very much. Thank you. So going to online questions, there's a question. I'll read the question. For those old vessels aged twenty years or older, do we need to modify the engine to burn low sulfur fuel? I heard that all vessels are not able to use low sulfur fuel without modifying the engine. If this is true, how long does it take and the cost to upgrade? It is not true. Older ships, we can't speak for all ships, but certainly, the dry bulk vessels that we are involved in can all burn low sulfur fuel. It takes minor modifications, minor costs. You may have to put in some blowers, and you need to be a bit careful managing these various types of low sulfur fuel if they're blended, etcetera. But you do not need to make any major modifications to the ship. There's another online question asking, the handysize market dropped a lot this half year. Was this supply or demand size driven? Well, not only handysize market, but oil drybulk markets dropped a lot this year. And we tried to lay out the reasons for that on Slide six on the left side. It was really the trade war that started it with less soybean. And you've also you also had these very significant disasters in Brazil that caused sentiment to take a big hit. But it's primarily grain and iron ore that is down this year early. And for us, it is the grain parts that affect our the handysize markets. So more demand than supply, right? Supply is gradually coming down. So the reduction early this year was demand, but we are hopefully getting a bit of a bounce back on these factors as we list on the right side of that slide number six. And we are seeing we have seen a pickup in rates in the first July, right, and primarily driven by the larger ships, but also coming down to Supramaxes and Handys. And you can see the the line graph on slide five that we are up to last year levels again on the Supras, and we're well on the way there on the Handysize system. Touchwood, we're expecting stronger market conditions in the second half this year and into 2020. So another online question. What has been the effect of The U. S.-China trade disputes and the Korea Japan trade disputes on, A, the international drybulk market and, B, Pacific Basin. While The U. S.-China trade dispute, as mentioned, primarily effect of that is less soybean moving from U. S. To China. And we had a big impact of that in the fourth quarter and early this year, Again, now coming more back to normal, but a lot of supply coming from other areas other than The U. S. It takes a while to adjust. But again, South America is back strong and exporting a lot of grain there now. As regards the Korea, Japan trade disputes, I would say no significant, if any at all, impact us and the dry bulk markets. Peter, do you have anything to add to that? No. I mean, the Japan, Korea, mainly about specialty chemicals, etcetera, it's not a big dry bulk trade at all, so no impact there. We have a question from the line of Karen Lee. Please ask your question. Hello. Can you hear me? Yes. Hi. Oh, okay. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks so much for very detailed information and information to the questions. I have a few questions. First of all, my understanding about the scrubber strategies, a lot of shippers actually taking very different view in terms of how once the annual 2020 is implemented, the supply of low sulfur fuel will adjust according to the surge in demand. So, obviously, think our scrubber in terms of the prices come down. But there's also a cost involved including, I think, the loss of revenue for the dry docking. So I want this I would like to just understand a little bit more why we decide to do such investments for the larger size venture that we have out, I. Support mix. The second question, it might be quite factual. I just wanna understand why in terms of the secondhand vessel value for two part max, as shown on your chart, it is same as the secondhand value for a handy size. However, the revenue per day is 20% higher. Is there any particular reason driving that? And yeah. And, yeah, I think that's the reason why we are working to acquire two part max. But how come the other players in in the market is not replicating such strategy? Lastly, it's a question regarding the BDI. Given our coverage in the space, we've been very often asked about the recent surge in BDI, although it's not really directly impacting Pacific Basin given different focus on the market. However, I just wanna understand a little bit more your view in terms of why driving driving the huge surge on CDI given if we look at the annual poor inventory levels in China actually has been, you know, piling up. And, also, I think the imports of iron ore hasn't really increased as much. But we have seen a very strong increase in the pricing. Of course, I think recently, it has come down a little bit. But last year, think, why the Handysize Freight Index has not really adjusted accordingly. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. As regards to first question about the scrubber financials, and we're we're doing scrubbers on on 10 of our supra so far, and we have arrangements in place to fit on the majority of of the of the supras. We own 32, right? So we're not saying we're going to install on all, but we're aiming to install on a majority. We spoke about the off hire time there, but the financials are such that the investment all in is roughly about $2,000,000 per ship, about $1,800,000 for the equipment CapEx wise, and then we calculate the extra off hire time to be another $200,000 so roughly $2,000,000 investment. And then the benefit is the ability to burn cheaper low sulfur fuel going forward. And how much cheaper remains to be seen. So the forward curve indicates a stronger price differential early in this new regulation period and then gradually coming off a bit. But the forward spread between 3.5 sulfur and MGO, which is point 1%, is roughly $250 per per ton for the for the first, you know, two, three years on on average. But you have to assume that the compliant fuel is 0.5 sulfur, so that will be cheaper than the 0.1 MGO. But how much cheaper remains a bit to be seen because the forward market is not so liquid yet for 4.5%. So there's a lot of uncertainties here. But safe to say heavy fuel oil will be cheaper, and there is a benefit. The question is how much. But, you know, we estimate based on our estimations with the spread having narrowed a bit, maybe a payback time of four to five years' time on that. But there's a lot of assumptions in there, and it may well be a quicker payback time. For us, it is balanced approach. We will not have scrubbers on the majority, but it does add some flexibility, some optionality for us to have scrubbers fitted on some of the ships. It allows us to execute some of the longer voyages with more seaborne time, higher fuel consumption with the scrubber fitted ships and shorter voyages with others, etcetera. So I think that's what we can say on scrubbers. Your second question, we heard you I heard you a little bit vaguely there. I don't know if you can repeat question as clearly as possible, if you don't mind. Sure. What I was asking is the secondhand vessel price for SuprapMax is about the same, which is USD 17,000,000 as a handysize secondhand vessel price that's showing in your slides. However, we noticed the revenue per day for you is 20% higher, and hence driving your, you know, the the plan to acquire more Suprat Max. However, I just wonder why driving the same, you know, in terms of secondhand vessel price for the larger vessels compared to the smaller ones despite the higher revenue per day? And why are the other players in the market is not replicating such strategy? Yeah. So I I understand. I mean, it is a bit unusual to have the same price for five year old handys and supras. These are Clarkson numbers. Maybe the real value is slightly higher on the supra and slightly slightly lower on on the Handy, but they have come together. There's not that there's much more liquidity on Supramaxes than it is on on Handy side. It is much more difficult to find good quality secondhand modern Handys than it is finding finding supras. So maybe that has something to to do with it. But, you know, these these things fluctuate a bit a bit over time. You should also note that on that graph in on Slide 11, for the handysize, Clarkson changed their typical handysize vessels from a 32 to a 38. So there is the the recent increase in the handysize secondhand value there is more reflecting that they changed from a thirty two two thousand tonner to 38,000 tonner. So the real development is more flat than that increase that you see on handysize values. On your third question, you're asking why did the BVI search it's not coming off a little bit again, but the you know, we're not a BDI company, as you point out. Right? You should watch the the handysize index, the DHSI and the BSI, the Handysize and Supramax Index, to get representative indications for our how our market is moving. But our understanding of why the BDI is surging was and is that we got both increased iron ore and grain volumes in the Atlantic Region at the same time as more ships than normal, more Capes than Panamax ships than normal are positioned were positioned and are positioned to the Pacific for scrubber installations. So a combination of increased demand in Atlantic and not as many ships as normal in the Atlantic. And what's caused the increase in iron ore, again, is the resumption of the Brazilian exports again after the Vale disasters. And what's causing the strong grain volumes is Black Sea and South America exporting lots of grain at the moment. Your fourth question was on the why has not the Handysize Index followed? Well, it is following. Although as normal, it lags and it comes later, and Handysize does not have the same same volatility. So you see a stronger increase on the Supramax and and less so on Handysize. But it typically comes, it just takes a while before the Handysize it trickles down. And, again, Handysize is what's what looks better fundamentally longer term, So I wouldn't put too much emphasis into these kind of short term month to month movements. But look at look at the longer term, and and we're comfortable, and it looks good for for the minor bug, both demand and supply wise. Okay. I got it. Super clear. Thank you so much, Matt. The more on online questions. Do you feel that you get sufficient, adequate, and appropriate levels of information from minors in Australia when they suffer damage from adverse weather effects such as cyclone? I would say, yes. I mean, we are close to our customers and don't see any reasons for why our customers should withhold information from us to the extent that it affects our business. Again, the disruptions we referred to in the first half were primarily affecting iron ore exports, which we are not carrying much, if at all. Another question. Just to confirm, management said the source of grains is switching from The U. S. To Black Sea. Is this referring to grain imports into China? Management also said it took a while to adjust. Do you mean for the company to adjust shipping capacity? No. I don't mean the company. I mean, you know, you don't plant a lot more soybean in South America in a heartbeat, so to speak, right? But obviously, the world is not sitting still when U. S. Is introducing when China is introducing tariffs on Chinese soybean. Right? So and China is looking for other suppliers. And South American exporters, I'm sure, are doing everything they can to to take market share from The US, and US farmers are are are suffering. So then that's kind of more of what we're referring to. You you asked specifically about switching from The US to Black Sea. Well, it is more seasonal in the Black Sea. Right? Black Sea is the export season now after after the summer. We're somewhat back to normal in The US this time of year because now they're exporting primarily corn and wheat, not soybean. And that's not going to China. That's going to other countries. Right? And it's not it's not affected by trade tariffs. But The US is US grain exports is affected by logistical problems in the Mississippi River due to due to flooding there. Another question. It's the same question. Okay. So another online question. What effect would climate change induced adverse weather effects such as more cyclones in Australia have on the dry bulk markets in the future? It's very difficult to kind of translate that into drybulk market effects. But the majority of drybulk trade is kind of adaptable and adjusts to things such as weather disruptions and trade tariffs. Again, it takes a little while maybe to switch things around, but ships are movable, and you can either buy grain from here or from there, etcetera. So we're having these weather effects the time. Again, Argentina had a smaller crop than usual last year. This year, you know, they're back to normal or better than normal. We've had some effects in Australia already this year when they had droughts on the West Side Of Australia, and we saw great movements from the West Coast Of Australia to the East Coast, which is highly unusual. And these all have certain impacts on the dry bulk industry, but I don't think we can conclude that climate change will have, you know, a particularly positive or negative impact. It just switches things around as these things happen. I think that's that's it for online questions. Anything else on the phone? Thank you, sir. As there are no further questions, we will now begin closing comments. Please go ahead, Mr. Max Berglund. No. Just to thank you all for joining us today, and thank you for your continued support and interest in our company. Thank you very