Equites Property Fund Limited (JSE:EQU)
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Apr 28, 2026, 5:00 PM SAST
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Pre-close call

Aug 27, 2025

Andrea Taverna-Turisan
CEO, Equites Property Fund

Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Equites' interim results pre-close presentation. Welcome to what probably looks like a cold and miserable Cape Town, but it's actually not so bad. It's just me with my scarf trying to keep warm a little bit. Bit of chill in the air still for us. But good to have you all with us today and look forward to presenting some insightful information on the first six months of the year for Equites and a very rosy outlook for the periods coming ahead. Let's start with the period under review and let's look at some key metrics which will be unpacked by the team through this presentation.

The first half of the year, we start with about ZAR 420 million effectively deployed already for the year and, we'll look at the expectation for the rest of the year and talk to that in more detail, in the presentation. Secondly, we are in deep negotiation at the moment, with the Aviva portfolio, which we've spoken to the market about and, we see that some of the press in the U.K. somehow managed to dig it out and put something into the public domain about what we're doing there. Like everything there's an element of truth there, but it's not totally accurate. We will unpack that as and when we have more detail to share with the market.

In terms of the forecast for the portfolio at the moment, we're forecasting about a 38% loan-to-value, which is a slight uptick as a consequence of the money spent. That being said, obviously, not of great concern for us in terms of loan-to-value especially as the expected return of the liquidity from the U.K. disposal of assets will be coming through in the second half of the year. Cost of debt obviously tightened further, and we're expecting it for the interim period to be, as you can see, just north of 8.2%, which is obviously a great position for us to be in.

We'll look at the detail of some of the work that's been done by the operating team with 6 leases agreed and obviously a bit of speculative building which has resulted in some new clients coming to the fray and obviously the continued growth of the Equites book, if you like. We've disposed of also some assets just closing out the position over the last sort of two to two and a half years. We have disposed of some significant volume of assets. In SA, a lot of those assets were some of the older sort of non-core assets as well, which we've managed to recycle into the brand-new development pipeline, which we'll also unpack in a bit more detail through the presentation.

Vacancy across portfolio obviously at 1%, and the SA portfolio at this stage basically remains fully let. From an ESG perspective, obviously our solar process keeps on going from strength to strength. We've got 27 MW of solar capacity and very exciting also, we've had our first wastewater treatment plant installation approved by one of the municipalities up in Gauteng and the installation of which we're hoping should be complete before Christmas, and we look forward to unpacking that in more detail as the year progresses and what it does in terms of water security for our tenants, which is a key metric for us. Let's maybe look at the operating environment.

As I mentioned, we are in deep negotiation on the Aviva portfolio and we have various offers on the table which are at a nice premium to our book value. I think two elements in presenting these numbers to the market in the U.K. One is that the Avery property, which is the biggest property in the portfolio, is still subject to a rent review in 2027, so someone buying into the portfolio will benefit from that liquidity event when it happens.

Coupled with that, obviously we have the strength of the long-term Aviva debt on the portfolio which the acquiring party will have the benefit of post-acquisition, which obviously puts the acquirer in a position that could not be achieved in the open market today. Really positive for the buyer, but at the same time obviously puts Equites in a position to further its interests and benefit from a decent uptick on book. The transaction is anticipated to close in the second half of the financial year and obviously we will keep the market abreast as and when we have detailed information to share with the market. On a positive note, DPD Burgess Hill, which, you know, we stuck to our guns here.

This particular property has been offered to the market for a while, but without any pressure to the market. Over the period, we were offered several offers not at our asking price, which were declined and our patience obviously was finally rewarded and we did get our asking price, which reflected at a 5% yield on that particular property. The positive here is that we have settled in its entirety the HSBC facility, so the other asset that we have outside of the Aviva portfolio in the U.K., which is DHL in Leeds, that one is completely unencumbered. All in all, the strategy of the unpack of the U.K. portfolio is certainly on track and performing sort of as expected and maybe a little bit ahead of expectation.

Good news there. The ENGL update, as you know, we concluded that transaction with the Newlands team during the course of last year. Like all things related to this, there are processes that needed to unpack themselves in order for us to be out, lock, stock, and barrel, as we would say. Maybe if I can go through everything one by one. Let's start with the subsequent companies. There were three companies in which Newlands have taken complete control of the land positions there, and there were certain monies that needed to be transferred on or before the thirtieth of June. That money, including the interest on it, has been transferred to us, and those companies are now in the full control of Newlands.

Newport Pagnell, we report on it again. It coming to closure there. The expectation is that PC will be achieved in early November, following which the final settlement payment from Panattoni will be forthcoming. The expectation is that number will be in and around GBP 25 million. Coton Park, also a great deal that the team managed to close out. The Winvic, the builder, is currently on site doing the bulk earthworks. Quite a big bulk earthwork job there. Fortunately, the timing of this deal sort of coincided with one of the driest summers in English history, which obviously has made the work that much easier to undertake.

The expectation is that the PC on this particular project will be in September like next year, and the inflow on completion and PC of that is approximately GBP 4.4 million. Thrapston has had its non-determination appeal process reviewed by the inspector. That process was complete on the thirteenth of August, and the inspector is now going through his processes to make a determination in terms of approving or not approving. Our legal team, together with our planning team, remain positively confident that there is a very good chance that we will get a positive outcome here. Obviously until we get the results of that outcome, it's very difficult to say.

In the event that we do get a positive outcome, the consequence of which is that the Newlands team retain the option to draw down that land. Our expectation is that that will probably happen on the basis that we get the determination in the next couple of months. Our expectation is that that will be a draw down somewhere March, April next year, in which there will be a ZAR 3.3 million purchase price for that land to us, plus interest and the costs that have been associated with the non-determination appeal process. The final sort of I suppose piece of the jigsaw puzzle remains Basingstoke. On the positive side, we are basically signed 106, and we are actually out of JR. That ended last Saturday.

We are in the detail now of determining what is the best way forward with the approval processes that we have, with the approved application that we have in our hands now. That will unpack itself, in my opinion, over the next sort of six to eight weeks. We will invariably be in a position to give a much clearer indication to the market of what we'll be doing with Basingstoke, probably at interim results presentation in October. We're finally there. We are finally in a position to start adding value to this particular site. It has been a long journey for us as well as for you. We obviously are very pleased to have finally got to where we are today. Let's talk to SA now.

We've really seen significant pipeline and demand coming through the industrial assets. I think what we're seeing is more and more organizations realizing that a significant level of investment needs to be made into supply chain. The consequence of which is we are seeing from the various presentations from some of our clients in their results presentation showing that the enhanced supply chain investment is resulting in significant improvements in their operating businesses. This obviously feeds into the Equites model. Obviously, it also allows us to, during the process of presentations for the various RFPs in which we are asked to price, we are able to present scenarios of major success for some of our clients, which obviously enhances the saleability of the product that we are trying to deliver to the market.

That obviously feeds into the confidence that the team, management team and the rest of the team have in terms of our ability to capitalize on that growing demand and our ability to deliver best-in-class product. Obviously the biggest constraint to a lot of these things across the country remains the supply of land, which is suitably zoned and obviously also serviced as well, which comes with a whole complex level of processes that needs to be undertaken to get land to that position.

We have the good fortune of having in our ownership, and also in a position of control a significant portion of land on the R21, which we would like to believe is, I suppose, become logistics central, especially in the Gauteng market, which continues to be obviously the leading market within the realms of the South African market. Outlook for us in SA remains really positive and very excited in terms of the flow of funds coming back from the U.K. will certainly find a home and be deployed in a profitable way for Equites going forward.

As I said, we've seen a lot of RFPs coming through over the last 18 months, and you can see the graph on the right here basically talking to the various RFPs that have come through the system in the last couple of years. Really that talks also to the amount of spend that Equites has been able to deploy over the last few years. You can see from 2022 above ZAR 2 billion, above ZAR 1.5 billion in 2023, above ZAR 2.5 billion in 2024. 2025, a more sort of normalized number of just below ZAR 1.5 billion.

We're expecting about ZAR 1 billion for this year with the potential of that actually ramping up into financial year 2027 as a consequence of some of the RFPs that we are participating in. Obviously, success in those RFPs remains vital to that spend hitting those numbers in 2027. But in that regard though, we've undertaken two speculative developments during the course of this year. One at Extension 57 on the R21, which we've got a PC date planned for the end of September, and we are obviously really pleased to announce that we've already signed a tenant to take that facility up. The tenant will have a lease commencement date of the first of October. Really great news for the team.

In terms of Site Five at Meadowview, also there, PC is only due basically at the end of November, and we are effectively at final lease negotiation level with a prospective tenant and obviously remain fairly confident that the commercials have been agreed, and it's now really a question of legals being agreed in that process. We hope to be able to bring some good news to you with our interim results in October that particular facility has been also let. The consequence of this is we intend to start two more speculative developments. One at Extension 102, which is on the R21, which is due to start on the first of October.

Obviously at Jet Park, we have two final sites there, which for a cumulative total of about 17,000 sq m. The reason we are gonna basically unpack them both together is that there's an economy of scale in terms of the construction costs, which would be very punitive if they were done as two separate developments. Over and above that, also the vacancy levels in and around the Jet Park area in Johannesburg are effectively zero and we believe that feeding into that demand in that particular location will do us well.

The final part is obviously we had indicated at year-end that we were looking at potentially doing a midi unit project at Lords View and we are looking to expand the horizon or the market that Equites has historically operated into a slightly smaller unit size with a slightly lesser spec than what would be afforded the primary product that Equites does put out there. This will be starting sort of October, November this year with the process following through into next year, and it will be done in phases and we'll see how this plays out, and then on the back of that, make determinations. Is this a market that we believe Equites can play in more detail going forward.

As indicated in the graph, the development activity over the last four years has been phenomenal. This year we'll sort of probably stabilize around the ZAR 1 billion mark. Next year, we'll invariably, I think, achieve the ZAR 1 billion and depending on a couple of RFPs, potentially could be slightly more, something more than that. I'm gonna hand over to Riaan now, who's gonna take us through the operational update of the portfolio and some of the details of the successes that we've seen through the portfolio in the recent period.

Riaan Gous
COO, Equites Property Fund

Thank you, Andrea. It's been a very positive first six months of the FY 2026 year from operational asset and property management point of view. We were very pleased to conclude six leases in this first six months, comprising of four renewals with existing tenants and two agreements with new tenants covering a total GLA of over 100,000 sq m. Some of the leases came from a 10-year duration and there were reversions on them, but we were pleased that the reversions were curtailed, and on average on longer leases we had a 10% negative reversion. Also very encouragingly is that we now are achieving rentals for new warehouses and existing ones in excess of ZAR 90 a sq m with very little resistance at these levels. It talks to the strong demand.

We've also over the last six months conducted some in-depth research on rental levels of competitors, market rentals, and it's clear to us that our product is currently commanding a 5%-10% premium. First, because of the spec, tenants are appreciating the fact that operating from one of our facilities makes their lives easier, it's more efficient, their operating costs are reduced, and also obviously the location of our facilities are prime. From a disposal point of view, we disposed three non-core properties at or above book value, and we also acquired a site for SPAR in Gqeberha, and we are encouraged by the relationship with them and there may be some other opportunities in the pipeline for us. Looking at the property fundamentals, we had one vacancy as Andrea...

which Andrea referred to, but that has been filled as from 1 October. When you look over the last 11 years, our portfolio have really performed exceptionally well with very limited vacancies and we've lost very few clients over the last, since inception in 2014. Really the only instances where clients moved out was when facilities became too small, and in some of those instances we were fortunate to be able to move them to a newer and larger facilities. Looking ahead and over the next three years, you'll see on the graph there in the rest of FY 2026 there are only 3.3% of our GLA leases coming up for renewal, that's four leases.

The subsequent FY 2027, only less than 2% of the GLA is coming up for renewal. You know, the next two years we can focus on closing those transactions, and then in FY 2028 there are eight leases coming up for renewal, some of which we've already engaged and are at an advanced stage. Really, the nature of our business enables us to be very close to our tenants.

The reality is for a tenant to move out of a larger facility takes a lot of time as well, and we regularly engage with them, so we are very well aware if a tenant has additional needs and that also enables us to potentially use some of our land bank to move them into and also have long visibility if a vacancy may arise, which enables us to market that. We really believe the next three years there's minimal risk of vacancy and the portfolio should continue to perform at optimal levels. Thank you. Over to Laila.

Andrea Taverna-Turisan
CEO, Equites Property Fund

Awesome.

Laila Razack
CFO, Equites Property Fund

Okay. Thank you, Riaan. Okay, let's start off with a topic that we've been discussing for a long time, and as Andrea says, over the last two or three years, we really have done an extensive amount of disposals to really manage our LTV. How did this move from 36% to where we forecasted to land at August? The first element which increased the LTV slightly was that we repurchased 9.4 million shares during March and April of this year. Now, in terms of capital allocation, we are always looking for the best way in which we can allocate capital, and at the time, we acquired these shares at a weighted average price of ZAR 13.82.

When we look at our share price today, it's obviously it was a great allocation of capital at the time, and we will continue to consider share buybacks if that level makes sense. If you look at the next element which impacted the increase in the LTV, it was the developments during the period. I think the slide that Andrea spoke to where we actually detailed the level of development activity over the last few years was quite telling. We always want to have the ability to have our powder dry so that we can, when a year does come about, which requires us to invest in a development pipeline which is as significant as it's been historically, we want to be able to have the balance sheet strength to do so.

Small amount of developments for the period under review, but always being ready for what's to come, because we do believe that that pipeline is going to be robust. The disposals, 1.1% decrease in LTV as a result of the disposals. There were three disposals in South Africa, as Riaan mentioned, and then 1 in the U.K. Now, the impact of the U.K. disposal wasn't as large as you may think it was, even though we achieved a purchase price of GBP 17.7 million, because we settled all the associated HSBC debt. As Andrea said, when we do sell the DHL Leeds property, that'll be completely unencumbered. What do we expect for the second half of the year?

I think there's a massive line there that we can't ignore, and that really is the disposal of the Aviva portfolio, which we expect to release somewhere north of GBP 100 million of equity, as well as the receipt of the Newport Pagnell check, which we expect to be around GBP 25 million. With that said, we forecast a small amount of development expenditure which can be improved or which can be increased either in the second half or definitely within FY 2027, and then we forecast some valuation uplift, but very conservatively. Where do we expect the LTV to end up for FY 2026? Around 24%. That's

There will be swings and roundabouts, but as you can see, that LTV is lower than it's been in a long, long time, and I think our challenge in the second half of the year, as well as in FY 2027, will be how to allocate our capital in the most efficient way to maximize value for shareholders. Okay. I think it's important to pause on just the cost of debt and liquidity, and we wanted to highlight where our current cost of debt is. So current cost of debt is around 8.23%. JIBAR is around 7.02, and we're really comfortable around this level.

If I can give you some insight into how we approach our hedging, because most of our investments are long-term investments, we look at where the curve is and we look at a point at which we are comfortable to hedge our position. If you look at it. Even though the market is pricing in further rate cuts during 2026 as well as 2027, we are 95% hedged at the moment, and that means that there'll be limited participation in future rate cuts, which is sort of what we're trying to show in the graph on the right-hand side. We're showing that where we are right now, we are comfortable with the position at which we've hedged it.

We believe that our cost of funding is competitive, and we believe that even though there isn't much participation in further interest rate cuts, we'll be able to further reduce that cost of debt through replacing existing debt with lower cost debt as it rolls off. Our DMTN program has been incredibly well-received, and we've priced really well, and we believe that as our older notes roll off, we'll be able to reduce our cost of debt through the lower margin debt coming online. Where are we at the moment in terms of cash and available reserves? We have about ZAR 3 billion of cash and undrawn facilities, which enables sufficient liquidity to participate in RFPs, and also as we are all feeling quite optimistic, we wanted to have sufficient powder dry to be able to participate in a competitive manner.

There's adequate cash reserve to cover all debt obligations over the next 12 months. Even if we weren't to go to the market, even if we weren't to engage on refis, which we're doing actively in the background, we're very comfortable that we have adequate cash reserves to cover all our obligations. I think that's it from me. Andrea.

Andrea Taverna-Turisan
CEO, Equites Property Fund

Awesome, man. Just in closing, just wanted to sort of give a bit of an update on the ESG and obviously, I suppose predominantly the E part of the ESG. As I said earlier, the solar capacity as of August is gonna be 27 MW, which is just only a little bit bigger than what we had at year-end. Obviously, we've got significant power purchase agreements being finalized during the first half of the year. We've got, you know, the two new speculative buildings coming on and a couple of other buildings in the portfolio that are in the process of having solar installations put on them. Our expectation is that that will grow again nicely to year-end.

We are in the process, as I said there, I mean, of doing six new installations at the moment. Also we are extrapolating the possibility and trying to find markets where we can potentially overproduce on our roofs. I think the one thing that's very important is that the quantity of electricity needed in some of these facilities, unless there is significant mechanical ventilation associated to fridges and freezers and the likes, the cost of running, you know, lights and a few computers and a couple of battery charging stations is not massive. Consequently, we end up with significant portions of roofs in which we can effectively install more than is required by our tenants.

What's critical though for us in that instance is that to find a receptive buyer on the other side of that, and the team is working tirelessly at the moment in terms of creating that market capacity for us, which is the one thing that does keep me very excited about the project here, and the quantity of electricity that we will potentially be able to generate over the next three to five years. With these large roofs obviously being inside the urban edge, the ability to not be hamstrung by transmission restrictions that potentially come from sort of some of the more rural energy generation projects. We obviously are extremely excited about the fact that we finally, after lots of negotiation, managed to achieve our municipal consent on a wastewater treatment plant.

The implementation, the tender has already gone out, and the implementation should be starting soon. It is not a significant installation process, so we'd like to think that by Christmas that first plant should be up and running, which means that I suppose at pre-close for year-end in February next year, we will be able to update you as to how that particular project is going and how the rollout of that will carry on into some of our other parks across the country, which is great news for us and obviously for our tenants. In conclusion, prospects.

I think probably the most important slide for a lot of the shareholders that are watching out there at the moment, and obviously we remain very pleased to announce that the DPS guidance that we gave in May has remained completely unaltered. We are super confident that our ability to deliver on that 5%-7% growth for financial year 2026 is definitely on target. The factors that will influence where we will be in that range will include obviously the timing of the U.K. disposal, bringing back that capital obviously, which is yielding significantly lower than what that capital would yield in South African rand.

Also, you know, what the rand will be on the day that we decide to repatriate as well. How many rand will we be bringing home? We know how many pounds we're potentially gonna make, but how many rand will we be bringing home? We also are very cautious, like everything, whilst we talk about us being in an advanced process of negotiation with a tenant at site five. The expectation is that that lease will be signed effectively between now and probably end of September.

For whatever reason, if that project were to fall out of bed, then, you know, we remain in a position where that speculative development potentially could have a few months of vacancy at the end of the year if we haven't found an alternative tenant for that building. We remain cautious and until, like everything in property, until it's signed, it's not signed. We remain cautious there. The expectation is that it will be signed, and hence there will be a zero vacancy factor. Until it is that, it isn't that. We obviously very pleased with the outlook for the remainder of the year, but also the outlook going into financial year 2027 and 2028.

In terms of what Riaan spoke to of the lease negotiations, in terms of what I spoke to in terms of the development RFP pipeline that's coming through the system, which hopefully will be feeding into a portfolio of extreme excellence, which will only go from strength to strength. Obviously with Leila and her team's management of the financial aspect of the business, the ability to continue to raise capital at record low prices, the ability to manage that loan-to-value and balance sheet in a way that is completely in line with the proposition that Equites gives to the market. On that, I call our presentation concluded, and we are in the process now of compiling some questions I see that have come through the system.

I'll hand over to Leila to sort of put those questions to the management team.

Laila Razack
CFO, Equites Property Fund

Okay, great. I've just combined some of them, but I guess the first one is for Riaan. Riaan, there is a large amount of expiries in FY 2028. How do you balance tenant renewals in advance versus waiting for rental growth which may come through before those renewals?

Riaan Gous
COO, Equites Property Fund

A very good question. Obviously, when one realizes that a tenant is well invested in a facility, and through the discussions you know that their business is going well. We've got a set of questions and information that we glean at every visit. If you know that the likelihood of a tenant moving out is very remote, then one tends to hold off any negotiations because the closer you get to the renewal bit, it makes it impossible for a tenant to move out.

Whereas if you are doubtful whether a tenant would stay, you'd rather know well in advance because we know that we will find tenants if a tenant were to vacate any of our premium facilities, but there may be you know the tenant that wants to move in may be in another lease situation which needs to expire. We balance it through whether there's certainty or not of a tenant staying, and according to those principles, we decide. We've had instances where tenants force us to enter into very early discussions.

Laila Razack
CFO, Equites Property Fund

Mm.

Riaan Gous
COO, Equites Property Fund

Obviously what we do then is we benchmark what is the market rental currently. We've seen in our portfolio over the past two to three years about 5% rental growth. We would agree a rental number right now and then escalate it with around 5%. You know, there's also an opportunity at renewal for some improvements to the facility. Obviously you then price those improvements into the rent, and it gives us some ability to negotiate to ensure that our rentals remain ahead of market, and we also then, as a quid pro quo, afford our tenant a facility that meets its demands.

Laila Razack
CFO, Equites Property Fund

Okay. Thank you. There are a few questions on just the low LTV. Would we consider acquisitions? I'm assuming that's in South Africa. Since we'll have a low LTV, what are the plans for Basingstoke, and would we allocate capital to developing the Basingstoke scheme?

Andrea Taverna-Turisan
CEO, Equites Property Fund

Wow. Okay. Would we consider acquisitions? Yes, we would. Always a challenge for two reasons. Firstly, you know, to find product that meets our exacting standards, not always the easiest thing. Secondly, the current marketplace for prime logistics assets is an extremely high demand environment, which results in some of the yields being achieved by some vendors, including ourselves over the last couple of years, have been extremely encouraging. That being said, you know, do we want to be paying massive premiums to have these assets on our books?

We would obviously treat each potential acquisition on an ad hoc basis, depending on what potential unlock there may be, and what our asset management team can bring to bear in terms of extracting extra value, be it either through putting solar on a roof or adding to some spare bulk that can be developed, and a few other factors that could come into play. In terms of Basingstoke, that's an interesting one. I mean, we remain open-minded to all possibility.

That being said, though, we also, you know, are also very aware that a lot of shareholders have lived this journey with us over the last six, seven years very intimately and we need to weigh up the benefits of deploying a significant amount of capital. 'Cause the drawdown of the remainder of the land and then the cost of putting in the various infrastructure and the platforming of the site to put it in a position where you could then potentially take it to the next level would be a significant quantum of capital, which obviously we would have, but we'd need to weigh that up against, is it the best utilization of that capital through the period.

As I said, I suppose I've said almost nothing for you, but at the same time, we remain open-minded to the possibility. Obviously we are very circumspect of both our shareholders, the management team, and our investment committee and our board's desire to deploy, you know, what potentially could be as much as GBP 100 million into unlocking the full value of that particular site. That being said, very confident that there is a solution which will result in Equites effectively finally making some money on this project.

Laila Razack
CFO, Equites Property Fund

Okay. We have a question from Luqman. He's just asking, "Given the high level of hedging and limited excess facilities, what is the expected penalty cost of paying down debt on the U.K. with the U.K. proceeds?" There isn't a simple answer to this. There isn't a number. What we are doing is quite proactively monitoring where there are refinancing facilities and potentially pushing those out. That's why you see a little bit of an uptick in the LTV. We are also looking at other solutions in terms of where we can park cash that doesn't mean that we'll be experiencing too much cash drag, but then waiting for those facilities to mature. It's a combination. We're looking across our debt book at just optimal ways to allocate the capital.

Yeah, it's an ongoing process right now, so I can't give you a number, but that's sort of our thought process and how we're going about it. Okay.

Andrea Taverna-Turisan
CEO, Equites Property Fund

Any more?

Laila Razack
CFO, Equites Property Fund

No, I think that's it.

Andrea Taverna-Turisan
CEO, Equites Property Fund

Is that it then?

Laila Razack
CFO, Equites Property Fund

Yeah. Not that many questions.

Andrea Taverna-Turisan
CEO, Equites Property Fund

Fantastic.

Laila Razack
CFO, Equites Property Fund

Yeah.

Andrea Taverna-Turisan
CEO, Equites Property Fund

We can call it a wrap. Again, thanks to my colleagues for the tireless work that they've undertaken in the period and continue to undertake every day. We obviously come out of two and a half years, which, to say mildly, have definitely been taxing. Obviously, we are where we are today as a consequence of the work that as a team we've undertaken in the recent years with a massive sense of optimism. We are in a market that's got huge demand drivers.

The efficiencies that we get brought to bear as a consequence of the product that Equites offers are becoming more and more noticeable across more and more organizations that are becoming market leaders and continuing to win market share as a consequence of that supply chain factor. We really are very optimistic about our position in being able to deliver that for South African operators. On that note, I think, on a very optimistic note, and as what will be a sunny day in Cape Town, and hopefully my scarf will come off, we thank you all for having spent the morning with us, and look forward to seeing you in October for our interim results presentation. Thank you. Bye-bye.

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