Today, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Exxaro Resources Deep for pre-close. All participants will be in listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity to ask questions later during the conference. If you should need assistance during the call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero. Please note that this call is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mzila Mthenjane. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you very much, Irene, and good afternoon to all who've joined us this afternoon. My name is Mzila Mthenjane, Executive Head for Exxaro Resources. I'm joined by our Financial Director, Riaan Koppeschaar, as well as the CEO, Dr. Nombasa Tsengwa, and they're accompanied by our MD for Minerals, Mr. Kgabi Masia, as well as MD for Energy, Leon Groenewald, and supported by Sakkie Swanepoel on the marketing and logistics side, Mellis Walker on the financial management for the minerals business, as well as—I'm forgetting his name—Mwisho Mokoena, who is our Business Development Manager on the minerals side. I'm getting a slap here from my colleagues. Ladies and gentlemen, you would have seen the Earth Deep pre-closed document, which was released earlier, and we will assume that it has been read.
I will hand over to Riaan, who will just give a brief overview, and then we will open up for questions and answers. Thank you very much, and over to you, Riaan.
Thanks, Mzila. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It's a pleasure to invite you here again. I will give a brief overview of the expected performance, whereafter the minerals team will discuss in more detail the expected sales, production, and CapEx outlook. Firstly, we will look at safety, which is very important for us. You will see by the end of October, our lost time injury frequency rate was sitting at 0.04 against our target of 0.06. This is indeed a good performance. However, we regrettably had a fatality at our Belfast coal mine on the 15th of August. We also reported that at the interim results, and unfortunately, Mr. Mathews Moakala was fatally injured in the Haarlem area. An investigation has been launched, and all the learnings from this incident have now been implemented across the group and our operations.
If we look at prices, the API 4 coal export price is expected to average about $271 per ton FOB for 2022, and the iron ore price, $116 per ton CFR China. Looking at production, the total coal production is expected to increase by 3% and sales volumes by 1%, despite the logistical challenges that we're still facing, which the team will discuss later on, as well as the disposal of Exxaro Central Coal in September 2021. If we look at the energy operations, Cennergi is forecasting to generate 675 gigawatt-hour of electricity, which is below the historical numbers and also our previous guidance. This is as a result of low wind conditions that are persisting in South Africa, and not only in South Africa, we're also seeing this trend globally in Europe.
If we look at our debt numbers, as at the end of October, the group had net cash of ZAR 8.9 billion, excluding the Cennergi project finance facility of ZAR 4.5 billion. If we look at the portfolio optimization, you'll recall we launched a process to disposal of the Leeuwpan mine in 2021, but unfortunately, in the current environment, the progress on the divestment stalled, and hence the decision was taken to stop the current divestment process due to these reasons. This is just a high-level overview of the results. I will now ask the minerals team to go into the production, sales forecast, and CapEx. Thank you.
Just to touch on where Riaan left around 2015, I mean, 2022.
Apologies, this is the operator. Sir, can I ask you to please come closer to the microphone?
Can you hear me clearly now?
Yes, thank you.
Okay, no thanks. Just to touch where Riaan left on safety, we had an unfortunate incident, but what I'd just like to highlight is that all our operations did very well, reducing the number of injuries by 50%. Côte d'Ivoire has recently celebrated 10 years of fatality-free shifts, and Leeuwpan is now going to be two years fatality-free. The importance of safety is that if you have good safety, it gives you margins to focus on production efficiencies. What I'd like to touch on before we get into the numbers is talk about the current operating environment, which has changed significantly. If we look at our operations, they are all designed with a system where we produce coal and it's railed by Transnet to Richards Bay Coal Terminal. That has changed significantly. We have now introduced what we call the logistical constraints.
We are now moving coal through trucks to different ports. For us now, we've realized that it is important that we focus on the logistical capability. That is what we need to build in the organization because the environment is not the same environment where we designed our operations from the start. Sakkie is going to touch on that because this then talks about how we do business going forward. As part of our long-term plans, that is what we focus on to see how do we then configure our operating model to suit the new operating environment. Sakkie, probably you could touch on that before I get into the production volumes.
I think the environment continues to be a challenging one. From our side, as Kgabi said, we are in a space where we try to make best use of all TFR capacity afforded to us, but then try to be quite innovative and flexible around where else can we evacuate coal to and through which ports, which is becoming a bit of a challenge as the coal price goes down. We can also touch on that maybe a bit later, but trying our best to still find ways to evacuate the coal.
Yes, let me focus on my end.
Okay, if I can then touch in general on markets of where we stand, despite all the volatility, we actually had good markets, very good markets this year. As we also told the market in August when we spoke to you, was that we already were in a bit of an upcycle before the Russian-Ukraine incident early in the year, and that then just made for a bit of anxiety in Europe in terms of energy scarcity, which really helped both coal and gas prices to go to very high levels and unprecedented levels. The first half of the year, a very, very strong period for us. Third quarter continued to remain fairly strong, although we started to see from Europe messages that Europe is stocking up.
At the time when there were still customers that really wanted to stock up on coal before the winter, we then had the levels of the Rhine River really reducing, and Amsterdam, Antwerp, and Rotterdam became very full because the coal was coming in but could not go down the river to the customer, which then had quite an impact on the market and on pricing as well. We also, for September and October, started to see that they had a really hot or a warm autumn in Europe, which then also reduced the amount of coal and gas being used for power generation and heat.
That sentimentally in the market actually caused prices to further come down as people thought, "Well, they are then not going to even need all the coal and gas that they have stockpiled before the winter." Luckily now for us, in November, we started to see temperatures really dropping, and I think we're much more positive we'll have a very strong season from a consuming perspective on the energy, and that will be good for us as coal producers. We do believe that coming out of the winter in 2023, Europe will still be very short on energy, and we do believe that energy prices will be very well supported with that from a demand side perspective.
On a supply side perspective into Europe, we see supply side impacts from South Africa due to TFR, the same from Colombia due to a lot of community unrest and the rail disruption by communities. Of course, they have the ban that they implemented on Russian coal supply. We can see that from a supply side, the European situation is probably going to be fairly tight after the winter, and therefore we are fairly positive on the current type of price levels into next year. We do not think we're going to go back to the $300 type levels, but we really hope that we can sustain these levels around $200 per ton on the high-quality coals from Richards Bay.
If we then move over to a bit more east to India, India had a very interesting year where initially India nearly stopped buying coal totally from a seaborne perspective due to the high prices earlier in the year. Then they came in the second quarter where they had huge electricity outages, and there was actually an instruction for power stations to import coal and to buy coal in spite of the high price because India was running out of power. With the Russian situation where Russia was blocked in Europe, we saw that Russia was starting to dump coal very cheaply in India, but also in countries like Pakistan and China.
India then actually had a big switch from South African coal for specifically the sponge iron industry to Russian coal, and then later on that proved to not be the solution because the Russian coal, the quality is not as consistent as the South African quality, but the initial indications of a very high fixed carbon in those coals proved to be also not as credible as was first claimed. India has actually started to, in spite of the lower price of Russian coal, to move a bit back to South African coal on the sponge iron, which is your RB3 type coals, and we started to see those huge discounts that we initially saw at the high prices to narrow quite materially.
We also saw a bit further east, quite a lot of impacts from weather on both Australia and Indonesia, which further helped to reduce the discounts on the lower quality coals. As far as Australia is concerned, you might have noticed that the Newcastle index, the API 6, has widened and has actually run quite a bit ahead of the South African high-quality index being the API 4 index. That is due to disruptions in the Australia production and logistics, but also the lack of Russian coal going into specifically Korea, Japan that has not implemented the hard ban like Europe on Russian coal, but made it very clear that they are not encouraging anyone to continue to import Russian coal.
We see quite a tightness in the Pacific on high-quality coals, and with the Australian situation not really improving, we continue to see that there's quite a premium of the Australian index to the South African index, which actually provides opportunities for us in South Africa to then go and play in the Pacific with high-quality coal. Again, the position where Exxaro is very well positioned currently to go and play. From a pricing perspective, yes, price has come down. We saw pricing come down to the $160, which did create a bit of a stir, and not because of historical prices, but if you're in an environment where you have to truck coal to evacuate your export coal through alternate ports, then it's becoming a real challenge when the coal price goes down to that level.
is great to see the coal price above $200 and the premium or the discounts on the subgrades not as big as it used to be. In general, from where we sit, we are quite positive. We still believe the Exxaro export product mix is a very competitive product mix, and we do not see any issues of selling that product mix for the rest of the year or into next year. We do accept that there is a bit of a question mark on what pricing will be, but we also believe that we will be successful in that to place our coals even at lower prices. We are working very hard to reduce the cost of taking out coal through other ports because we recognize the importance of that in the current environment, and we think we have good initiatives that will carry us into next year.
Kgabi, I think that's all from my side.
Just touching on production, our overall production focus at 33% lower than what was previously guided, 13% lower on metallurgical coal, and 12% lower on thermal coal in Mpumalanga. The biggest contributors are the rail performance, and this was exacerbated by the recent Transnet strike and the derailment, which impacted Mafube, Leeuwpan, and the metallurgical coal production. Also, with the unfortunate fatal incident, we had to stop the Belfast operation for more than 20 days, and that also impacted the production output in that operation. On thermal coal production, we expected to be in line with the guidance. If I then move to the sales, the total sales are expected to be 3% lower than what was previously guided, with the export sales focused at 26% lower.
Our Mpumalanga domestic sales are expected to be 17% lower, and metallurgical coals also expected to be 17% lower than what was previously guided. The major impact is still the rail performance, which was mitigated through using road transport and alternative port solutions. Our Matla mine performed well, and it is expected to increase sales by 1% from the previous guidance. We have embarked on capital excellence journey to drive the efficiency of how we deploy capital, and I will ask Mellis to take us through that. We are measuring in this week as we started in the first quarter of the financial year with the capital excellence.
Thank you very much, Kgabi. I think we're quite pleased with the progress that we're making on the capital excellence journey, and we're starting to see the benefits flowing through in our numbers. Constantly optimizing, making sure that any projects that comply with our rigorous standards and KPIs actually pass through the investment decision. We are about ZAR 490 million down from our previous guidance, and the bulk of that is in Waterberg, where we're looking at our truck and shovel replacement strategy really starting to smooth out now, and we're making those farming decisions much better. There is about ZAR 90 million that we're down in Mpumalanga, and that's a combination of Leeuwpan and Belfast. The GG6 project is coming in at a slightly lower number than before at about ZAR 130 million down from the previous guidance.
The project is completed by the end of December, and 2023 we'll see the first full production at 1.7 million tons out of that plant. Really pleased with where we're going and closing out the year very strongly. Thanks, Kgabi.
Thank you very much, Melis, and to the team for that overview. I think, Irene, we can now move over to questions and answers.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, if anyone would like to ask a question, you're welcome to press Star and then 1, and you can share your phone or on the keypad of your screen. If you wish to withdraw the question, you may press Star and then 2 to remove yourself from the question queue. Once again, if you would like to ask a question, please press Star and then 1. Our first question is from Nkateko Mathonsi of Investec. Please go ahead.
Hi, [Nkateko].
Apologies, we've lost the line to Nkateko Mathonsi. Our next question is from Anil Tayob of Optimum Investment Group. Please go ahead.
Hi, go ahead. I did not get the name from Optimum.
It's Anil Tayob.
Anil. Okay, go ahead, Anil.
Anil, your line is live. It seems there's no response from that line. Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, you may press Star and then 1. We'll wait a moment for questions to go. We have a question from.
Yes, ma'am.
All right. We have a question from Zeng Forsman of Kgila Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes, good morning, guys. Thanks for your time. I was recently chatting to a geologist and CEO of an Australian company that focuses on copper, and they were saying that obviously the European winter now is going to highlight some of the energy shortages, and there are going to be quite a few blackouts and stuff. Do you think that's going to help your case? I remember last time copper wasn't really one of the three commodities that you were focusing on expanding into.
Okay, so your question is the energy situation in the U.K.?
Yes, it is. Yeah, do you think the energy shortages in Europe this winter will help you? Are you guys looking at copper?
Okay, so there are two questions there. We'll start by responding to the first one on coal and energy and then come back on the copper.
Perfect.
Yeah, thank you, Sakkie. On the energy security side, we do not, from our view, think there are imminent energy security risks in Europe, but we do foresee that towards the end of the winter, the European winter, we're going to see certain stocks running low. There is also, specifically in a country like Germany, a decision taken to limit the amount of gas flow that they will allow during the winter just to safeguard the stock to ensure they don't consume the gas that they have in stock early parts of the winter and then sit with a problem. I think all of these, on balance, should support the whole energy complex, whether that's oil, whether it's gas, or whether it's coal.
There is a limitation as to how much coal Europe can burn because they have decommissioned quite a bit of their coal-fired power stations, but we also do believe that for those coal-fired power stations that they do have, they will definitely continue to run them very hard. Gas, for the first time now in quite a few months, is again cheaper to generate electricity from in Europe versus coal, but they need both. We do not fear that they will stop the one in favor of the other. On net balance, I do think any energy shortage or security issues is good in general for the energy complex and definitely also for coal.
Perfect, [thank you.] On the second question, it's Mvuleni speaking here. Yes, copper is indeed one of the commodities that we're looking at. As you would remember, in the capital markets day in 2020, we announced three commodities that we're looking at, copper being one, manganese being the other, and bauxite being the third.
Awesome, thank you. I might just point out to you, you guys might be interested in early January chatting to Michelle Mthenjane, who is at ExxonMobil University. Because she's from Namibia, she's a Namibia investment representative, and they've got some coal assets there, and they've got access to other coal assets—sorry, copper assets also.
All right, no, thank you very much for that reference. Irene, anyone else on the line?
We have a question from Anil Tayob of Optimum Investment Group. Please go ahead.
Good day, can you hear me now?
Yes, we can, Anil.
Okay, sorry for the inconvenience earlier. Just on the export coal that's trucked out of—or trucked to other ports, what percentage of the exports is trucked versus the percentage railed? And what's the incremental cost relating to being trucked compared to just railed to the port?
Okay, okay, thanks. Yeah, Anil, so if you look at our guidance for the total exports of this year of 5.2, then we think at best 4.7 million tons of that will be moved to RBCT by TFR. That is compared to an initial figure of about 5.3 when we spoke to you in August. Quite an impact there. We lost more than 500,000 tons of railings to RBCT through the impact of both the strike and the derailment. We think at best 4.7 there, and then we do think about 500,000 tons through the other ports that we export. There is your ratio.
As far as the cost is concerned, we have indicated also in August that it is much more expensive, and it depends through which port you go and whether you have access in the port or not, or whether you have to use someone else's capacity in port. The cost differential from, let's say, from a Mpumalanga mine through TFR and RBCT compared to these optionality routes can be anything between four times and six times more expensive than through TFR and RBCT. It is quite expensive.
Thanks a lot for that.
Our next question is from Kgabi Masia of All Weather Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you very much. Can you guys hear me?
Yes, we can.
Perfect, thank you. I've got a related question with regards to the costs of trucking to the port. I just want to understand the handling cost at the ports, given that a lot of the ports are now focused on coal. Has that handling cost gone up for the back-of-port providers and the port itself? Is it maybe a value-added service charge that they ask instead of maybe $8 a ton? Now it goes up to $15 a ton, given the urgency of exporting coal and obviously the demand. Can you just guide us roughly according to that? Not the Richards Bay Coal Terminal, but the other ports specifically.
Okay. Kgabi, is that your only question, or do you have any other questions beyond that?
That's my only question. Other questions are answered from the other people.
Yeah, Kgabi, thank you for the question. As much as we are not going into the detail of these differential costs between ports and logistics options, the principle that you put on the table is very true. If costs have gone up, that we are charged by through these other ports, specifically transiting port terminals, the costs have gone up, and yes, that definitely contributes towards the cost, whether you go directly through the quayside with import stock capacity or whether you have to go back-of-port with double handling and sometimes triple handling. In all respects, costs have gone up.
Thank you.
Our next question is from Nkateko Mathonsi of Investec. Please go ahead.
Hi, Inkateqon.
Super. I actually am sorry about last time technology failed me. I think I have two questions. The first one is actually on prices, and I want to know if you're able to give us a bit of an indication on the price achieved or the discount to API 4 in the second half of this year or up until right now. Also, I think the one thing I also noticed on the report published in the morning is that you are selling domestically, but then it ends up in the export market. You're selling to those that have capacity for export. I want to know if you are able to sell it at some premium, even though you're selling domestically, if there's any link to the export prices on that quantity that you're selling domestically but for the export market.
Okay, great. Thanks a lot. That was a great question.
Thanks, Kgabi Masia. I also have another question. Do you want me to say all my questions and then we can keep going?
Yes.
I also wanted to know, in terms of Leeuwpan and the divestment that has stalled, what were the key issues and when do you expect that process to actually get underway again? I think it also will be helpful on an ESG front for you to share a little bit in terms of the learnings related to the previous fatal incident. What were the learnings that you have actually implemented going forward? Those are all my questions.
Thanks, Inkateqon.
All righty.
Thanks, Kgabi Mthenjane. Yeah, at this stage of during the FDP close, we are not going into the financial side of the business. It is more on the operational side that we give the market some guidance. I think on the pricing side, you can very easily, if you subscribe to any of the price providers, you can get what the price movements and also the discounts on the subgrades are. I think that's generally available information on subscription that most analyst groups do have. If we talk about the price realization, again, the percentage price realization is something we will talk to the market by the time of results announcement, as we normally do.
On your question regarding the local sales, what we call the FCA sales, it is that product, a volume that we in normal circumstances would have exported ourselves through Richards Bay, but because TFR is not performing, we either try to sell that now through other ports or through other players that have access to other ports. Yes, in short, the answer to the question you asked, we definitely try to get the best price on that and not a domestic price. We are definitely making a calculation to say, as this product will be going to the export market and you do allow the margin for the third party who is buying it from you and will get it through other capacity out to try and push to at least have an export-related price on your FCA sales and not just a normal domestic price.
I think we've been quite successful in that in this year so far. Again, apart from the normal cost of what we call optionality through the other ports, you now have other players in the mix as well. Yes, it does impact on the price that you do get, but yes, definitely better than a plain domestic price.
Okay, thank you.
All right. We're just going to talk to the Leeuwpan issue as well. Yeah, so on Leeuwpan, we made good progress on the disposal earlier this year, and I think then that was also the time when, for instance, the TFR issues arose. Due to those issues, it became more problematic to get the transaction to move ahead. The decision was taken to stop the process at that point in time and to look at the stability of the business.
Maybe to add, Inkateko, in terms of when the process will kick in, we would not know at this point in time. As Kgabi Masia said, when you've got these long periods of time of uncertainty to employees, you do lose a bit of focus and traction in the business. As soon as we pick up that there is traction and we also look at everything else that may have happened around the mine, we will definitely make a call. We do that every year in June during our strategy session. We will obviously look at it again going up to June of next year. After that, we will definitely announce if there's anything that triggers that process to be in line again.
Okay, super. Thank you.
Okay. On the lessons from the fatale, maybe just to give context, the fatale happened in a parking area where we park our trucks. For us, the learning days are around the technology where probably we can see how do we remove people next to the machine. This is an ongoing issue in the mining industry. I think last month, in the last six weeks, there have been six fatalities linked to trucks interacting with people. We are still working as an industry in terms of what technology we can implement. For us, also the issue of mental awareness and how do we understand and know where people are in terms of their mental state. That is what we have left also in that.
Okay, super. Thank you.
Thanks, Riaan, Ari.
The next question is from Thabang Thlaku of SBG Securities. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, Thabang. I thought you weren't joining us today.
It's actually good morning for me. I'm six hours behind. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity to ask a question. I have questions largely related to Transnet. I'll kick off with the first one, which is operational. Now, being cognizant of the fact that this is not a financial update rather than an operational one, I mean, Exxaro is one of the best cost performers in the SA diversified market. Are you guys able to give us an indication of what your inflation levels look like relative to 1H2022, where you probably still did well? Obviously, it's been six months there, and the inflation environment in South Africa is getting worse. That's my first question. The other three questions are on Transnet. You guys say that one of the reasons disposing LP has been difficult is due to Transnet.
Now, I remember you guys saying that you weren't going to dispose it with the capacity. Is it more of a sentiment issue where a new buyer is perhaps concerned about the ability to get any capacity from Transnet but not related to Exxaro? My third question is, at the beginning of September, Ms. Portia Derby announced that they had completed the legal—they had concluded the legal issues they had with CRRC, and that CRRC would be sending technical experts to South Africa to start with maintenance. There clearly hasn't been an improvement in the availability of locals since then. Do you guys have any color on that? Are you feeling a little bit more optimistic going into 2023, given that she sort of put out numbers of 60 million tons?
I'm not even sure if it's for the 2022 calendar year or the 2023 financial year for March and scan. Then my last question is a little bit philosophical, so I apologize, but it's understandable that a lot of the coal exporters in South Africa are moving towards trucking because they've lost opportunities. We also know that trucking is suspected to be one of the reasons TFR is underperforming because of the vandalism. How do you guys view that? As coal prices come down, do we see trucking reducing drastically, say in 2024, when coal prices are no longer around the $200 level? Quite a mouthful, but I'll leave it there.
Thanks, Thabang. Appreciate the question. I think I'm going to start with the last one first, Sakkie on this side. Maybe the trucking one, the philosophical question you're asking, it is a bit of a concern to us because if on a systemic basis you lose capacity with TFR to the extent you have now, it does mean you enable a trucking economy where a lot of companies and people will create vested interests. You must expect that one day, if you start to take that demand for trucking away and want to move back to rail, it may not be such a smooth process. Even that there is clear indication currently that some of the cable theft and vandalism we see on the coal line, we believe, is related to some of these very things you have mentioned.
Just to give an indication, most of the cable theft that we witness is on the main line. You must ask yourself if people really did it for the copper, for the cable. Why did they not go to the branch lines that are much quieter, where they can do it unhindered? We come to the coal line where the surveillance and everything is at much higher levels. Is it then really only about the copper, or is it about also making sure that the coal line does not operate as we wish? I unfortunately do not know the answers, but it is a concern to us, maybe on a strategic level. Going back to the issue of Leeuwpan. On Leeuwpan, you are very correct. The plan was never to divest of Leeuwpan or any of our other assets with export capacity, being that rail or port.
It was not part of the transaction. As much as we are not selling some of our capacity with the asset, whoever is buying the asset must still evacuate that coal if they want to export that. Therefore, it is important that to any of the who will be the new owner of that asset, they must be able to secure Transnet rail to that asset. That was the concern where Transnet at one stage indicated that they do not want to service what we call the small sidings. It is the sidings where you load the trains only on 6,000 tons and not on 8,300 tons. We have resolved that with TFR. We do get a weekly allocation on a planning basis to the trains that we can get given the current level of performance. That one, I think, has now been resolved.
The other question you asked was on improvement in the local availability of the deployment of CRRC. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah. The indications that we get from TFR is that there was an in-principle agreement reached between the Chinese and Transnet on the outstanding matters that has led to the legal action that we saw. The in-principle agreement was an agreement that said, yes, in principle, the Chinese will start to supply spares to Transnet again. We must understand that the difference between an in-principle agreement and a definitive agreement, where you actually, on the strength of which you actually do get the spares, do take quite a bit of negotiation, and that has not been concluded. Latest indications is that TFR hope to have that concluded towards the end of the year if all goes well.
What is positive is that as much as we are not aware of new spares coming into the country from China yet, what has happened is that some of the spares that were in South Africa but in bonded warehouses due to the legal action were then released in the past month. Specifically regarding compressors, TFR now is able to make use of some of those spares that were in bonded warehouses. There is movement, but the big jump that we want to see in terms of spare availability, we actually expect only, hopefully, from the first half of next year once the agreements were concluded.
Excellent. Thanks. Thanks for that comprehensive answer, Sakkie. I don't know if it's Riaan or Mellis. Any indication of what your inflation increases are looking like?
Thanks, Tabang. It was a question that you probe us on, and I think it's rightly so. We've given the indication that we constantly give indications that we'll stay within mining inflation. I mean, obviously, we won't give a number now, but I mean, we can just look at what the PPI is for this current year for South Africa, which is around 13%. And we're working hard at still remaining within that. We think there is more pressure in the second half. I mean, we've also got the logistics costs that we're picking up additionally to what we've what the numbers were in the first half. Inflation pressures are increasing, but we're still guiding to remain within mining inflation. Thanks.
Thanks very much.
Thanks, Tabang. Ari, you can carry on.
We have a follow-up question from Finn Walshman of Kgila Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, yeah. Sorry. I just thought I'd mention that when you were talking earlier about fatalities, some of the platform companies use and some of the goals, which is quite useful. There's a company called Delta Drone, which sends drones in to check out to help with security rather than send people in, which is probably a lot safer when you're talking about people around the trucks and stuff. Maybe you can use drones.
Okay. Thanks, Ben. Any other questions, Ari?
Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, you may press star and then one. We will pause a moment to see if we have any further questions. It seems we have no further questions, sir.
Thank you very much, Arian. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for joining us and for your continued interest. Our year-end is year-end of December 2022, and we will be releasing our results on Thursday, the 16th of March 2023. We will obviously communicate details closer to the time. Thank you very much, and wishing you all a safe and happy festive season. We look forward to seeing you again in the new year. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well done. Bye, guys.
Thanks. Bye.
Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.