Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Investec Trading Update. All participants are currently in listen only mode and there will be an opportunity to ask questions later during the conference. Please also note that this call is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Vadikiki. Please go ahead.
Good morning. This is Fani Citi, Group Chief Executive of Investec. I'm joined this morning by Nishlan Samwitch, Group Financial Director. A number of executives are also on the call and we'll be happy to answer any questions on the area of the business. We would all like to welcome you and Thank you for taking the time to join us this morning on this conference call to discuss a pre closed trading update for the 6 months ending 30 September 2020.
The The comparability of the first half of twenty twenty one to the prior period has been impacted by the economic effect of COVID-nineteen. This will be our 2nd set of results that have been impacted by COVID-nineteen and this time for the full period under review. The business proved resilient in a period characterized by stringent lockdowns in the Q1, followed by the gradual reopening of the economies. Severe GDP contractions and volatile financial markets negatively impacted revenues. Investec's capital and liquidity ratios remained robust and are expected to be stable.
Provisions for Credit losses are expected to remain elevated in the period under review. Net asset value per share is expected to increase. Costs were well managed. The business is well positioned to support its clients through this challenging environment. We will continue to ensure the safety and well-being of our people and the integrity of our balance sheet.
I would now like To give you a brief overview of the key points of our announcement before opening the call for questions, the operating environment as assets In both the UK and South Africa have been characterized by reduced economic activity and increased market volatility as a result of the ongoing COVID 2019 pandemic and associated lockdowns. The first half of the year has seen slower Sorry, we have seen lower average interest rate, reduced line activity and a 22% depreciation Of the average rate against the pound sterling compared to the prior period, the Wealth and Investment Businesses reported net inflows and Growth in Funds Under Management. The Specialist Banking businesses have seen good client acquisition in both geographies. The corporate lending business has experienced reduced lending activity. The private banking franchise remains resilient reporting loan book growth since year end.
Operating income remains under pressure given the operating environment and unfavorable market conditions for Investment Income and Hedging of Structured Products. Operating costs were reduced year on year as a result of The group's increased focus on controllable expenditure. The prior period contains a full 6 month contribution from 91, previously Investor Capital Management, which was demerged in March this year. Additionally, as I have indicated, the prior period was not impacted by the effect of COVID-nineteen, which emerged in the last quarter of the 2020 financial year. The group's continuing operations, adjusted operating profit, It's expected to be 50% to 60% behind the prior period where the adjusted operating profit Was reported at
GBP276,300,000
and adjusted earnings per share is expected to be 53% to 63% behind first half twenty twenty where the adjusted EPS was reported as 22.4p. As far as the balance sheet is concerned, capital and leverage ratios remain sound ahead of internal targets and regulatory requirements. The group's cash and near cash at 31 August 2020 was 12.9 £1,000,000,000 representing about 0.3 percent of customer deposits. The group expects elevated levels of credit losses as indicated in the full year Well, announced in May, mainly driven by the forward looking macroeconomic scenarios. Following increased impairments, including the COVID-nineteen overlay raised in the last quarter of the 2020 financial year, the annualized credit loss ratio is expected to be between 47 basis points and 54 basis points.
The comparable numbers for first half 2020 was 23 basis points and for the full year full financial year 2020, 52 basis points. Strategically, we have continued to simplify and focus the business as we had announced at the CMD presentation in February 2018 and as a number of the presentation that's followed there, the results presentation that is, in the U. K, we have further enhanced efficiencies by a more closely integrating business enabling functions. This means we are proposing a reduction in the UK Bank London based headcount of approximately R210 or 13% of headcount. The strategy was set prior to COVID-nineteen, but the crisis has also increased the focus on containing and reducing costs.
We expect this to have a neutral financial impact in the current financial year with 48 of savings in the UK bank taking effect in the next financial year. The changes to the U. K. Bank are in line with our overarching goal of achieving sustainable growth for the long term. I would like to conclude by saying that despite the volatile and uncertain times, our franchises Remain resilient and we are confident about the long term potential of the group.
I wish to thank my colleagues for their dedication to our clients and to the communities around us. I will now hand back to the moderator and take any questions you might have. Thank you.
Thank you
very much, sir. On your touch tone phone or on the keypad on your screen. If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing the buttons. You Our first question is from Christopher Stuart of 91. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Sadi. Thanks very much for the time listening to you too. I hope you guys are well. Just a quick one from my side. Apologies if it is included in the text.
I haven't actually managed Yes. Can you give us a quick sense of what is driving the difference between adjusted and basic EPS over the period, please. It looks like it's somewhere around 2p a share.
Yes, Chris. I think it's the standard differences. So it's really earnings per share includes the amortization and impairment of Any goodwill, that's not a material difference. It's really the amortization of intangibles. In fact, you have a strange accounting treatment.
So our 91 investment, which is As an associate, we are required to amortize the intangible component of that investment. So if anything, we're reducing the carrying value of 91 Q2 accounting. It's really a strange accounting treatment.
Okay. All right, great. Thanks a lot.
Thanks, Chris.
Thank you. The next question is from Diana Mwanpidia of Resco. Please go ahead.
Hello. Good morning, Fanny. Just one question from me. In the UK, The percentage of clients on payment holidays is pretty much at the same level as your peak. So I'd just like To confirm the first thing, when you're talking about peak period, when was your peak?
And then on the composition of the clients, Is it still the same clients who took a payment holiday at the peak and then they're extending their payment holidays? Oh, it's just a percentage and then you've got turnover of clients who are asking for your payment holidays. And then on the same in South Africa, The percentage has pretty much you're now at the court of the people who of the clients who initially took payment relief. Could you add some color on what's driven the fast recovery in South Africa? And then the second question is on Credit loss ratios.
You've given us an annualized rate. So I'd just like to understand, is most of this coming from H1 or You add more impairments at the end of the year when you're reporting next year. Yes. Thank you.
Okay. Let me just deal with the question of relief presented to our clients. Clearly, In the Q1 that we are reporting on, being from April To June, we had very strict lockdown. In South Africa, for instance, we were at level 5, and there was very little Economic activity, in fact, we saw at that time activity as measured, for instance, by point of sale Being as low as 30% compared to last year and from around May, June, we began to see some The realization of those lockdowns and activity improved at the moment. We are probably seeing activity, again, as measured by point of sale activity, At 80% to 90% of last year, so the peak occurred In the Q1 of the year and in both economies, we are seeing A reduction sorry, an increase in activity leading to the reduction.
I'm going to ask Ruth to give you some specifics on her book in the U. K. And then we can address the South African side of it as well. Ruth is the executive of the bank in the UK. I forgot to introduce, I assume that everybody knows Ruth Lee.
Hi, good morning, everybody. It's Ladayana. Exactly as Fani mentioned, that is what we have seen, which was the peak really in the Q1 of our financial year when lockdown was Most severe. We certainly have seen some positive outcomes as people come to the end of the payment holiday periods Actually moving towards back to normal servicing and we have seen that across different areas of our book, particularly in our small ticket asset finance business We are a number of the companies, many, actually the large majority of them coming off payment holidays are actually back to normal servicing. So we are seeing encouraging signs through that.
But as you point out, still running at relatively similar overall levels of payment holidays as we sit today.
Thank you, Arun. Yes, thank you, Ruth. In South Africa, we obviously are seeing our clients going back into a level of activity, allowing them To get going with their businesses, we need to try and separate Two types of relief. There are obviously government schemes that are in place, and there are relief programs that banks would offer in the normal course. So while we have seen a low pickup of government schemes, we have seen both for Investec and for other banks In the country, a level of support for clients that has enabled clients to continue to operate.
Yes. So, I think firstly to note is that impairments are raised on a forward looking basis. And we have factored in our anticipated economic environment that we face, and we had gone through a very similar exercise at the end of March last year. Our impairment loss ratio for the first half of last year was about 23 basis points, which was obviously a COVID free environment, but still a weak economic environment, I think was tantamount to the quality of the book. We peaked in this period at about 74 basis points in the second half of last year with a full year average of 52 basis points, And we are currently guiding to a credit loss ratio of 47 to 54 basis points.
I think one thing that is Very important to note is that our book has been significantly reshaped. So our experience in the financial crisis or where we picked up a much higher level of impairments and losses on areas such as vacant land, leisure developments And developmental type property has significant those exposures have significantly reduced from a balance sheet perspective. And the other differential in terms of market is the type and client that we deal with. So we obviously, given the nature of Investec's business, Do not have a significant exposure to unsecured retail credit. So as we've guided, the credit loss ratio of Between 47 and 54 basis points is elevated to our normal levels and That is our experience and provisioning on a full basis based on our half year outlook.
And as I said in my script, we had our first take of COVID In our March full year results, this is the 2nd take that we have had to make. And this time around, we were impacted for the full period. Thanks, Nishu, for taking the call. Any other questions?
Yes, sir. Our next question is from Nick Clicker of Signal Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I don't have a great Internet line, if you can hear me.
Yes, we can hear you clearly. Please go ahead.
Okay, great. My question is about hidden assets. I mean, we Have a share price, it's barely above ZAR28 today. I think ZAR91 must make up about a less than 10 of that. I've also got your investment in Investec Property Fund lying around there, which is quite difficult To kind of value given all the accounting that goes around that.
And the other assets that I'm not sure about the preference share fund And possibly private equity funds and things like that. Let's start at 91. I mean, I don't think the market is recognizing that value as it lies in Investec at the moment. Can you talk about what your strategy is with regard to 91? I think it also creates an overhang on the 91 share price all the time that no one seems to know What your position is?
And then when you come to disclosing your financials, Can you give us some type of intrinsic value calculation? So guys who don't concentrate all the time on your company Can just get a feel for where the different assets are and how much they are worth?
Okay. Let me take the question on 91. We demerged 91 in March. We hold a 25% position. I'm aggregating both Limited and Plc.
We are very happy With that investment, the Polygy investment run by a great management team. And at the moment, we have no plans to realize that investment. Obviously, the lockup period that we have around 91, I think it has come and gone. So we don't have a restriction Around the investment and the holding, but we are very happy with the investment and we have no plan at the moment To Salette, and we are hopeful that the investment will continue to perform. Just addressing your overall question, which is a question around how the market values the business.
I mean, firstly, we do agree with you That if you look at some of the parts, that the value is much higher than the market is recognizing. Banks are in a challenging environment, and I think there is generally an understanding that until we See a better trajectory for the economies of the world and that trajectory will be dependent On what happens with the virus, there will be an expectation of higher incentives In banks, and therefore, bank valuations are likely to remain muted in the South African and UK Environment where we operate, I think you do have banks trading at significant discounts to their net asset value and their tangible net So the environment and the neighborhood in which we are implies that there will be a level of discount. I think as far as Investec is concerned, we obviously have a strategy of simplifying And focusing the business, we have indicated in 2018 CND that we have committed as a management team to improve fundamentally The performance of the business in the long term, obviously, COVID-nineteen and the dislocations that arise as a consequence of that Means that in the short term, you have to deal with the fallout of COVID-nineteen, but our efforts to improve performance To make sure that in the long term, we can earn returns that are in excess of the cost of capital Remain, we have indicated in this result that our efforts at managing the cost base Have been quite successful, this following a number of changes we have made to our strategy.
So I think we will put rank on the Board And leave the valuation to you as our shareholders in the market.
Nick, a final question. Thank you.
I'll take up
your challenge around probably enhancing some of the disclosure. So Continue to implement.
Just push back a little bit. I mean, 91, I agree with you, is a good operation, but I can buy that on the stock market. I don't need you guys to invest in that for me. And also the market doesn't seem to give you any value for it. It's not getting any value for your $91,000,000 investment.
I'll just ask you
about your Investec Property Fund. What is your strategy with regard to your 25% holding in Investec Property Fund? I mean, it becomes it makes your accounts very complicated because now that gets consolidated. And Accounting genius to unwind the whole thing and to figure out what the valuation of your business is. So again, that investment has just made life very difficult for me and I don't think the market gives you any value for it.
And And assets in there with the same problem, the same issues.
Yes. Nick, just to go back 2/91, it's a challenge. We were quite clear when Hendrik and myself took over The running of the business that we will look to simplify the business, to focus it and to run it As best we can and on the banking side, we're committed to trying and we are on course So achieving returns that are in excess of the cost of capital, obviously, not in this environment, but As we normalize Bex to an environment that is reasonable and we said at the time that we will retain a stake in 91 That would enable us, 1st, to support the new listing. And second, we said that As we distributed a substantial majority of our holding, We wanted to retain a stake that would give us a cushion, a capital cushion. You will know that When we released our secular at the time, we had indicated that we wanted to place 10% of the stake of the 35% that we hold.
But market conditions were particularly unfavorable Because we were not under pressure to sell, we decided we would not be selling. I think if we had Been under pressure to say we probably would have had to sell at circa 145, 150p, and we didn't do that We are not destroyers of value, so we held on to our stake. So, a piece of the 25% was always meant So both our capital, given that we distributed a portion of the value that we have and cash flows that we would have had Asset Banking Group. So Capital One, 2nd, supporting the business. And as I say, over time, we will Make appropriate decisions around that investment, but we're happy at the moment with the investment and its performance.
Secondly, we are in the process of significantly enhancing our disclosure. We Absolutely agree with you that there's a level of complexity in the disclosure. We have a team inside of The business that is looking at how we can simplify our disclosure, and one of the things we are doing is separating The investment piece, for instance, 91 IEP and 1 or other into an investment piece that you can look at separately and value separately in addition to the underlying franchises in the business. So that's what is underway. Hopefully, as this year Okay.
Thank you very much. I will give you that improved disclosure.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from Bongoli Ubugo of Bank of America Securities. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Fani. Thanks for your time today. Two questions from my side is hi, guys. Is I guess, how long do you see the credit loss generally being elevated? Do you think you've reached the peak of what, 74 basis points in the second half?
54 is a full year annualized for the first half. Do you think you're going to stay at those levels for the full year And then potentially gradually reduce to your normalized levels probably what between 20 to 30 basis points by 2020 2 financial year. I think that's the first question. And the second question is, could you elaborate on the negative, I think it was a negative equity adjustments That the banks recognize. I guess, my understanding is that obviously you've had a dislocation in the market, but A lot of that was by the end of March or the a lot of the troughs were at the end of March.
I would have expected that to be booked in to 8 of last year. And just clarify in terms of what's driving that to continue to be negative in the first half this year, which started from April?
So clearly, the outlook on levels of impairment It's dependent on an economic outlook. We run IFRS nine models with a number of scenarios that we have to consider. So depending on what economic scenarios you come up with, you could give a sense of what impairments could do. We gave a guidance that we expect That we will be at levels similar to the second half of last year. We remain with that guidance Now given the economic outlook that we have, if there's an improved economic outlook or a deteriorating Economic outlook, that guidance will change.
So, I'm not able to give you a sense of where we think Our impairments, they PICO improved to in the next year or 2 simply given the uncertainty in the environment. But our business model, as Nishlan indicated, is quite a resilient one given the clients that we serve, Both on the pocket banking side, the private banking side, we have very strong wealth businesses in South Africa and the UK. And as we indicated, we've seen net flows in this period. So we have Strong businesses that are very resilient in markets that are like this just given the nature of the clients that we serve. So and given the changes we've made to the business mix, as Nishtim said, 10 years ago, we had big exposure to properties and to certain types of properties that are higher risk.
And our book is much more diversified now, and we think the risk is And we think the risk is well appreciated by the management team. Yes. And
then from an investments perspective, I think a couple of key points. Number 1 is our associate income, from our IEP portfolio, which does have exposure to the industrial services that experienced An extreme slowdown in activity between April, May June, and therefore, we've seen lower equity accounted income in this period. Secondly, through the property exposures, we are seeing a reduction in valuations, particularly on the South African asset portfolio, and that's really what's been factored in this current period.
Perfect. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from Shane Watkins of All River. Please go ahead.
Fani, thank you very much for the call. Hi, Fani. Yes. So If you don't mind, I'd like to join the discussion on the group structure because I do want to applaud you, I think, on a good operating result in difficult conditions. And it's very evident that you guys are doing a lot of very difficult work.
I feel like You guys are doing the hard stuff and leaving that for example, rightsizing businesses, Cutting costs, retrenching staff, those are very hard things to do. And yet the real problem with Investec is its suboptimal group structure, which The fact is the market doesn't like it and doesn't give you and it doesn't reflect your value properly. So I guess the main issue is 91 because that would be the biggest number in the valuation. And I think that you say that you're there to support 91, but I mean, quite frankly, they don't need your help at all. You need their help by placing that stake and unlocking the value for yourself.
So I guess what I'm really saying is that It feels like, I really
Of course, yes. Yes. And but
I think it's a you really are doing the right Operationally, and those are very hard things to do. But the things that are much easier to do like restructuring the group in a way that it's easy to understand and easy to value, You're leaving left undone. So, I guess, I don't have a question. I just really have an observation that You're unlikely to be properly valued by the market until you give the market a structure that analysts and investors like. And I think it's very evident to me that presently the market doesn't like your structure.
So we just encourage you to think about that. But also congratulations on the hard operational stuff that you have done.
Shane, thank you for recognizing The hard work that is being done. I mean, obviously, when you lose colleagues as part of the process of improving How the business does clients and also how the business can operate more effectively, that is hard work and it's difficult. I think we understand the challenge, and we relish the challenge of the management team. We think we have a platform That is particularly well positioned, and we will continue on the operational side to make the changes that we think Are important to make and will improve underlying performance. We've already acknowledged that we can Improved significantly our disclosures, and we are hard working at that, and that should help a little bit.
With respect to the Overall structure, if you are also referring to the DLC, at the time we did a strategic review around simplification. We did ask the question around the DLC and whether we could unwind the DLC. That option is not available to us today for a number of reasons, including regulatory reasons and reasons of strategy. So we've looked quite hard, Hendrik, myself and the Board at the time as to how we could simplify the business structure. And as I say now, we're working at improving performance operationally, and we're looking to enhance disclosure.
And we will continue to do what is right So the business has been a long time and hopefully that really can be recognized as we go forward.
No, thank you. I mean, I don't think the dual listing structure is really an issue. I think largely the issue is the fact that so much of your value is embedded in your shielding in 91. And I guess what I'm saying is that If you were to sell or unbundle your 91 shares, it's hard for me to see that your business would trade at R17 ex the 91 stake. So I think it would be value unlocking to unbundle that stake, because I think it would make the residual value of your group very evident.
And I think, As I think earlier caller mentioned, I think that the current structure is bad for you and it's bad for 91 because for 91 it's seen as a continuous overhang. And for you, it obscures the value in Investec itself.
We understand the complexity, Shane, and we appreciate your concern around it. As a board and executive management team, we needed to balance the need to have a Simpler structure, that places value in the hands of shareholders. We distributed 55% of 'ninety one. And as As trade off, because we were to some extent as part of our overall capital considerations, The cash flow coming from 91 was helpful. So as a trade off, by giving away to our shareholders through a distribution, which We were excited about 55%.
We were clear that we intended to bolster the capital of the remaining business, the cushion, Because when you go through these types of environments, capital sufficiency is really important. I think the decision at the time to think of 10% of the 25% being played for purposes of bolstering, The overall capital of the business, particularly for purposes of the UK business as we are Improving its performance, the FA business generates excess capital, as you know. So that was the strategic decision for us. The majority of the stake to our shareholders retain a cushion for capital, 10% of it we had said we would But as I said, we are happy with that investment as is. We understand the concerns.
Those were affected in at the time We decided to distribute the 55%. The option was to keep the group together, which we thought was not The right option. This is an option that we chose, which has placed in the hands of shareholders. But we've heard your concerns around
I really appreciate that. I don't want to labor the point. I just think you're stuck in a halfway house that no one likes. And yes, but thank you very much for hearing me.
Pleasure. Thank you.
The next question is from Edward O'Shaughnessy of RedD Intelligence. Please go ahead.
Thank you, and good morning, everyone.
Just a quick question for me
on the U. K. Bank's
the reduction of the London based headcount. I wonder if you could just reiterate the rationale for that As well as just tell me how far along is that? Can you give me an indication of what desks will be affected? Thank you very much.
Okay. Let me just go through the rationale. Again, as we indicated in our announcement, this is not A knee jerk reaction to the current conditions. We started 2 years ago with the process of simplification, Starting off with the biggest activity we could take being that of de measuring the asset management business, then we Dealt with subscale operations like Click and Invest that we didn't think would make it over a 5 To a 10 year period, we then pulled out of asset management in Northern Ireland because again, we thought that was upscale. We reduced risk.
Wealth, sorry. Nish Lin is next to me. This is the Wealth Management business in Ireland. Thanks, Nish. And then we reduced the risk that we had in the HomeCom portfolio that we wrote down at the end of last year.
And within the UK business, the rationale for the restructure is that we want to Have a simpler way of reaching out to our clients, and most of the job losses will be in the Business enabling area of the bank where we have a lot of duplication between private bank and the corporate bank, And we as part of our efficiency drive, making a number of those duplicative roles redundant as we move forward. But it's part of the overall process of improving performance and improving our ability to serve Clients, clearly, right around the group, we always have an eye for improvement And achievement, for instance, on an ongoing basis, I mean, last year, we made some changes in SA in the property Side of it, we made some changes in IFB in terms of efficiencies and some small restructure. This obviously is a bigger restructure, But we remain as a team vigilant to look for efficiencies and to look for better ways to serve our clients. So the rationale is being closer to our clients on the front end and rationalizing at
the
back And eliminating duplication, the one element of it is also that between bank and wealth in the U. K. From a back office perspective, Particularly around technology, there are savings we can make there. So that would be the totality of The impact on the business and our thinking around being closer to clients in the front end and at the back end being much more efficient.
Does that answer your question, Edward?
Yes. Thank you very much. That's all.
Thank you.
Okay. I'm just pausing for one more question. This has been a very interactive session which we appreciate. And this effect, we understand the concerns that The market has around 6 aspects of our business. Needless to say, we as I said earlier, we relish the challenge We're taking this great platform forward and getting to a point where we can generate returns in excess of our cost of capital, But the environment we're in, at least for the next year to maybe 3, is the COVID affected environment, which Obviously, it's quite challenging, but we really see the opportunity to take it forward.
Any last question?
We do have a follow-up question from Nick Grichard. Please go ahead.
Thanks, Fani. I'm going to push the point a little bit harder because you are talking about you want to beat your cost of capital. So if we look at the accounting equation, asset equals equity plus liability. Obviously, I want management team to look at the asset and to see what kind of yield that can get from the asset. I want the management team to look at the liability and make sure that, that liability, the cost of debt is not too high.
And then when it comes to the equity portion of that equation, you kind of said earlier on today that that's up to the market. We're not involved with that. It's an external variable, which I disagree with. But if you want to beat your cost of capital, one of the strategies is to actually lower your cost of capital and not to throw up your When it comes to the cost of equity, you say, well, that's the market's job. Maybe it is key management's job to make sure that the equity That you got cheap access to equity, where the equity is properly valued by the market.
So do you still think it's Fair for the management team to say cost of equity is external variable. We're not going to do anything about it. It's up to the market to figure that one out. I don't think you should I don't think that's the right approach. Nick, you should be driving to bring down your cost of capital as well.
Nick, I think going into a theoretical discussion about the cost of capital is Something we can do outside of the forum. Let's just say that we do believe that when we go through The activities that we are going through at the moment operationally and strategically, and as I indicated, the South African business Let me put it that way. We have always thought about ways to make our capital much more efficient. So the efficiency of capital, we will look at. The right level of capital, we will look at.
As we have in the past talked about what we can do around capital and the structure of the assets, one of the things that Richard As committed to doing in South Africa is to reshape and reduce the size of our investment portfolio because That is where some of the drag on returns come from. But I would be happy to take you to take the discussion further with you outside of the forum. And thank you for your challenge, which we acknowledge and accept. But I propose we take it further outside of this form.
Okay. Thanks.
Sorry?
Yes. Now I thought your last comment was encouraging about addressing that investment portfolio where you see the I 100% agree with that. Thank you for your time.
But as I say, we can engage with you directly on your questions and Your thoughts. Needless to say, as a management team, we have looked at this issue around our Balance sheet, the structure of it, the returns that we want to generate. But in the end, We run the business for the long term and we want to invest to make the platform even more valuable. As I said earlier, we have to put runs on the board as we go, and we are quite confident that we have a great platform with great people, And we relish the challenge and the opportunity. So thank you very much for your attendance, for your interest, for your questions And for your challenge.
Thank you very much. Gentlemen, we have no further questions.
I think that was the last question. Did we not agree?
That was the last question, sir.
So let me just remind you in closing that we will be releasing our results, half year results on the 19th November. And clearly, we will be in a better position to give you more detail around the results, and we look forward to further engagement with you at that time. Thank you so very much.
Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes this conference. You may now disconnect your lines.