Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and I'd like to welcome you and thank you for attending today's call on this short notice. So this morning, we issued a press release on our R and D collaboration with Anglo American on PGM based catalysts that will simplify hydrogen storage and use in fuel cell electric vehicles. We indeed clearly see strong traction in the hydrogen economy in general and it brings attractive growth opportunities for Umicore. So the purpose of today's call is to give context around Umicore's positioning in various hydrogen applications. It is, however, not the purpose to give you a full strategic update nor to dive into financials.
So I'd be grateful if you could focus your questions on technology rather than on numbers. So on today's call, as you heard, we first have a formal presentation by Ann Stiegen, our Chief Technology Officer, and Joakim Thurson, SVP, Fuel Cell and Stationery Catalysts. This will be followed by Q and A where Lothar Moosman, SVP, New Business Incubation, Catalysis this is connectivity and IP also joins us. So let's kick off. Anne, the floor is yours.
Fast refilling and non operating range. It can also be used as a storage medium and. And of course, green hydrogen can be used for the decarbonization of the industry with the production of alternative fuels and other products. Fuel cell technology has come a long way, Where 20, 30 years ago, it was not so clear yet which fuel to use, hydrogen, methanol, gasoline. When hydrogen became the fuel of choice, there was always the question how to store it.
Under pressure, liquid at minus 2 53 degrees or chemically bound. Now pressurized and compressed hydrogen at 703 the bar is now common. And based on this, hydrogen filling stations were developed and are being installed. So after 30 years, we see more and more commercial fuel cell vehicles on the market. Umicore has been part of this journey from the beginning.
At Umicore, we have been developing catalysts for fuel cells and electrolyzers over 30 years. We started in 1990 with the first developments of platinum and carbon black catalysts. As part of the PMGL position in 2003, Umicore also acquired PMG's fuel cell catalyst activity. Since 2014, the increasing market interest has led to an acceleration of our fuel cell catalyst development activities. In 2018, we established our first mass production in Korea and 1 year later, we commissioned a new greenfield plant in Korea to be able to follow the growing demand of our customers there.
In 2020, we launched a separate business unit fuel cells and Stationary Catalysts and move the business unit's headquarters to Suzhou in view of our Chinese market development. We continue to explore opportunities to expand our activities contributing to the green hydrogen economy. That's why today, we announced a joint R and D program with Anglo American Platinum on liquid organic hydrogen carriers. Historically, our fewer cell activities have a strong presence in Europe. But in recent years, we have been expanding our presence towards Asia based on the growing customer demand.
We continue to invest in R and D to develop the next generation catalysts. Our global foot Print consists today of 4 R and D sites and 2 production facilities and a customer support center in Japan. And then most recently, we have the opening of our fuel cells and stationary catalyst business unit in China to support our customers in the growing Chinese market. Yomikor is preparing the ground for future growth in the green hydrogen in Economy. And besides our profitable business activity and fuel cell catalysts for transportation, With a turnover of €40,000,000 in 2020, we are also developing catalysts for PEN electrolyzers, so proton exchange membrane electrolyzers using, of course, our 30 year experience in catalyst material development.
We are also participating in joint development programs with our industrial and academic partners. Global Logistics and storage of renewable hydrogen is expected to be a very important element of future CO2 neutral energy system. And today's way of transporting and storing hydrogen is mainly based on liquid hydrogen, which has to be stored at a very low temperature all on using compressed hydrogen. At this moment, fuel cell vehicles are mainly powered using compressed hydrogen. Insufficient infrastructure and refueling networks for compressed hydrogen represents one of the main challenges for a more widespread use of hydrogen in the transportation industry.
That's why at Dumicore, we launched an incubation program that focuses on liquid organic hydrogen carriers as a way to transport and store hydrogen. Liquid organic hydrogen carrier technologies offer an effective alternative solution by chemically bonding hydrogen to a stable liquid organic carrier. That eliminates the need for compression and enables more practical and cost efficient way to transport hydrogen compared to the existing rates of hydrogen fueling today. The transition to renewable energy sources and using green hydrogen as an energy carrier Requires a number of triple platinum group metals. And the resource availability of these metals for the large Scale implementation of hydrogen based technologies will be crucially important, Especially when you look at the highly concentrated geographical distribution of the metals and the lack of substitute materials.
That's why at Umicore, we invest in a continuous R and D effort to reduce the metal loading of the catalyst, while optimizing performance and the durability of the catalyst. And together with our recycling group, we are also developing flow sheets to close the material look to recycle these valuable metals from production scrap and in the longer term also from end of life fuel cells. Now I hand over the word to Joakim, and he will give you an update regarding our fuel cell catalyst business.
Thank you, Erinn. So the first growth opportunity in the hydrogen economy that we will address in more detail today We see significant potential in heavy duty vehicles and And in large light duty vehicles with long range requirements. This can be SUVs, this can be pickup trucks, this can be MPVs. There is a lot of traction in this market today, and we see it as an attractive near term growth potential for Umicore. You can go to the next slide, please.
So we see a near term growth potential for Umicore In fuel cell catalysts for heavy duty vehicles and long range light duty vehicles. And what is it that Umicore is offering? Umicore produces catalysts for the cathode and anode electrode of proton exchange membrane fuel cells, chem fuel cells. We supply catalysts to customers in the entire value chain across the entire value chain, Ranging from automotive OEMs, system suppliers, stack producers and membrane electrode assembly Manufacturers, MEA manufacturers. And at Umicore, we do have the capabilities to support our customers In their development of fuel cell technology, we can support them on how to optimally use our catalysts in their systems, In the systems and in the MEAs.
And what is a fuel cell system? Please look at the diagram to the right. Here you see a schematic drawing of a fuel cell system. A fuel cell is a device where you transform chemical energy into power. Pure hydrogen is fed to the anode where it's split into protons and electrons.
And The driving force for this reaction is the presence oxygen at the cathode and the protons will be transported through the proton exchange membrane, the PEM membrane. So we see this near term growth potential in fuel cell academies for heavy duty vehicles and long range light duty vehicles. And And the fuel cell technology is actually a perfect solution to cater long range heavy duty vehicles and buses, providing a strong propulsive power. In light duty vehicles, we do foresee a widespread use of battery technology for battery electrical vehicles, But we also see a potential for the use of fuel cell technology in long range light duty vehicles. And And the key fuel cell technology in automotive applications will be the proton exchange membrane technology, the PEN technology.
And And the legislation is supported globally in Korea, in Japan, in China and Europe. And by 2,030, we estimate a market size of 150 gigawatts in heavy duty vehicles and light duty vehicles In terms of catalyst, this corresponds to a 120 metric tons of catalyst. So we see a growth potential and And as the demand of our customers is increasing, we definitely plan to scale up our production capacity. And And you can expect sometime in the near future that we will announce further capacity expansions. Already today, we are a qualified supplier of more than 10 OEMs across the regions, this being car and truck OEMs as well as And among these leading fuel cell companies, our materials and catalysts And this is all based on many, many years of research and development.
And today, we have research and development and production in both Germany and Korea. And we commissioned our first mass and in Korea by the end of 2019, which means that already today we have tons of scale capacity. At Umicore, we have numerous key customer cooperations with OEMs as well as system integrators, STAC and MEA suppliers. And as I said, we are today already qualified supplier In this slide, you see the ramp up time line for already qualified business awards In terms of SOP, SOP is an abbreviation for startup production. And And as you can see in this diagram, the first programs were already initiated last year.
This year and next year, We expect the initiation of further programs. And by 2024, we expect a second wave of programs to be started. And on top of this already awarded business, we do have ongoing engagements for new platforms globally. Please go to next slide. Umicore is a supplier of Hyundai Motor Company for Qcell Canvys.
Hyundai Motor Company is one of the first manufacturers to make hydrogen fuel cell vehicles commercially available. Together with the Umicore, Xunte focused on advanced fuel cell technology in order to boost range performance and durability. And in 2018, the NEXO passenger car was launched, and this is today the only fuel cell SUV in the world with 100 and 35 kilowatt powertrain and a range of 6.66 kilometers. Umicore and Xunzei Motor Company's cooperation with Umicore as a supplier and co developer of PEM fuel cell catalyst Already back in 2,009. And this has led to high performance and highly durable fuel cell systems with Umicore catalyst.
And based on this, Hyundai already today Sold more than 10,000 NEXO vehicles with almost 7,000 in 2020. And. Today, we supply The current generations of our leading fuel cell catalyst technology. And in this slide, you see the road map to reduce PDM loading and make fuel cell applications more And this is all done in order to enable our customers to reduce PGM content and to increase durability of the fuel cell systems. This is based on in house research and development, but definitely also on an extensive external research network on fuel cells with key institutes in Europe, U.
S. And Korea. You may recall we do open innovation with external Congratulations with best in class academia and research institutes. Thank you. You can go to next slide.
Okay. Thank you, Joachim. So and as I mentioned before, compressed hydrogen is mainly used to Power Fuel Cell Vehicles today. And unfortunately, there is insufficient infrastructure and refueling networks for this compressed hydrogen the presenter today, and that's one of the main barriers for more widespread use of hydrogen in the transport industry. Liquid organic hydrogen carrier technologies provide now an effective alternative solution by chemically bonding hydrogen to a stable liquid carrier.
And as such, it can eliminate the need for compression and make it safer, more practical and more cost efficient to transport hydrogen using existing conventional fuel networks. Now how does a liquid organic hydrogen share your work. These AlloHg components are typically organic compounds that can absorb and release hydrogen through chemical reactions. That's why the L'OCC can store hydrogen. So how you look at it is that hydrogen preferably produce through electrolysis from renewable energy sources is absorbed onto the liquid organic carrier using a hydrogenation catalyst.
This can be done at the remote site. This liquid substance is then stored and transported using regular transportation means Transportation of hydrogen over long distances is in that way safer, it's more practical, it's more cost efficient. Fuel cell cars are then fueled with hydrogen rich LHC using existing fueling infrastructure and short de fueling times. To power on the fuel cell car and onboard hydrogen releases from the LOHC system using a deep hydrogenation catalyst. So it's clear that LoHE has the potential to offer great advantage by building on the infrastructure for long distance delivery and fueling.
There is still quite some R and D work to be done to optimize the catalyst for dehydrogenation. The current catalyst system requires high pressures and temperature for the dehydrogenation process which is not compatible with the operating window in a fuel cell vehicle and does not match with requirements for onboard applications. So our R and D program at Eumkor focuses on the development of new catalysts to allow a lower pressure and temperature regime for the hydrogenation step. This is a long term early stage R and D program Vin and Yumicor and Yumicor collaborates here with academic and industrial partners. The announcement earlier today between Yumicor and Anglo American Patan is also part of this effort.
Hydrogen comes in many forms, from fossil fuel based gray hydrogen to renewable based green hydrogen. But today, 95% of the hydrogen produced is green. But it's only green hydrogen that's compatible with a sustainable and climate neutral use of energy. Now for the production of green hydrogen, different electrolyzer technologies exist and are currently under development. There is an alkaline electrolyzer and proton exchange membranes or PEM electrolyzer, Solid oxide electrolyzers and anion exchange membrane electrolyzers.
All of them make use of metal based catalysts and alkaline and peptide electrolyzers will most likely be dominant in the next years welcome. The cost of green hydrogen depends especially on the renewable electricity price, but also on the investment cost of the electrolyzers and its operating hours. A in hours. A rapid scale up of the electrolyzer deployment will take place in the next decade. And if the renewable electricity cost continues to come down to competitive range, green hydrogen could start to compete with rayonblue hydrogen by 2,030.
Electrolyzers produce green hydrogen from water and renewable electricity. And And PAM electrolyzers use a thin film membrane to separate hydrogen oxygen. PAM type electrolyzers BetaBee uses similar catalysts as are used in fuel cells. So Umicore has here a long history developing those catalysts also can derive the know how from the work that's going on in our fuel cell catalyst development. PAM production so PAM hydrogen production has the advantage of fast startup.
It's very good dynamic behavior, it has no corrosion and simple maintenance and it has a smaller footprint than alkaline technologies. But at the other hand, the higher manufacturing costs and catalyst costs are the main factors to address in the development of future PEN Hydrogen Technology and Catalyst. Now it is expected that both technologies will coexist for the coming decade. The FEM electrolyzer market is expected to grow towards an accumulated 90 gigawatts by 2,030 with an estimate catalyst demand of 67 tons by 2,030. At Umicore, we continue to invest in R and D to optimize dependent catalysts, further improving the efficiency and durability while reducing the metal loading.
We have collaborations with Western Glass Research Institute to accelerate our fundamental research. We are also active members in well established hydrogen platforms and forms to stimulate the green hydrogen economy together with other industrial players with governments and with academia. The role of government is critical in defining national hydrogen strategies and setting the ambition level here. So as key takeaways, we would like to leave you with the following messages. Sustainability and carbon neutrality are high on the agenda of Danish governments and of Eurmiquis.
It's a way forward and as part of the post COVID recovery plan for governments across the globe. COVID strengthened even more the need for sustainable energy transition. Humicore has a 30 year history in producing catalyst materials fuel cell cars and electrolyzers. This reflects an attractive business growth for fuel cell catalysts for heavy duty vehicles and long range light duty vehicles. We are already a supplier to more than 10 car and truck OEMs, system integrators, tech and MEA lending suppliers.
We have a global presence with 4 R and D sites and 2 industrial production sites in Germany and Korea. And we recently moved our business unit headquarters to China. This day, we are well positioned to capture in near term growth in the fuel cell cannabis market. For the longer term, We continue to invest in the development of higher performance and cost efficient catalysts for fuel cell vehicles and electrolyzers and more recently also for the development of catalysts for liquid organic hydrogen carriers. With the potential to optimize transport and storage of hydrogen and to simplify actually the fueling of fuel cell cars.
And with this, I would like to end the presentation. Thank you very much for your attention. And I think the floor is open. And the operator will open the floor now for Q and A session.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session.
You
Your first question comes from the line of Alex Stewart from Barclays. Please ask your question.
Hello. Good morning. Thank you for doing this presentation. It's really helpful to understand bits of Uniquor's business, so I appreciate that. Just to be clear, My understanding is that you generate hydrogen using electrolysis.
You convert hydrogen Do hydrogenation to a liquid organic carrier. You put the liquid organic carrier into the car. That dehydrogenates extracts the pure hydrogen. The hydrogen fuels the fuel cell. You're left then with a liquid an organic liquid, which needs to be and But I'm struggling to see what the logic of all of this is because there's a roughly 40% loss of energy in an Electrolyzer unit, there's then loss of energy and cost in hydrogenation.
There's a loss of energy and cost in dehydrogenation. And And then you need to extract the organic carrier. So that's a lot of additional energy loss. And if the sole purpose of this is to ease the logistics and transportation of liquid or pressurized hydrogen to refueling stations, In principle, I see how that works, but 99% of the rest of the market is investing in the sort of the old technology, which is getting and Pure hydrogen fuel cells. So could you perhaps talk about why you think this is better than The strategy that almost everyone else is deploying would be very helpful, particularly around this energy loss and the energy conversion and the cost and Hydrogenation and dehydrogenation and what to do with the organic carrier?
Yes. Thank you very much for the question, absolutely. So basically, as we have said today already, hydrogen is mainly being stored as a compressed gas. That's the way that fuel cell vehicles today are being foreseen with the high gen fuel. Now for this compressed gas, Of course, there is a lot of work being done today to make that safe, to basically understand How the efforts going into the safe fuel cell vehicle design and packaging of these tanks under this high pressure.
They have laser sensors. For instance, if you the vehicles with alarms and valves to make sure that this all happens in safe way, testing is done in a safe way. The consequence of that is, of course, that the tank contributes quite significantly to the overall cost of fuel cell vehicle. So that is one thing. Also the insufficient infrastructure and refueling networks for compressed hydrogen stations, Which has to be modified, it's also still in development and takes time.
So the advantages back to organic hydrogen carriers is that first of all, it's chemically bound. It is a very stable chemical reaction that happens there with very minor hydrogen loss, that's one thing. It's of course also as you said, it's a liquid under and ambient conditions, so temperature and pressure, which basically helps also in the volume that it takes in the car. It behaves like fossil fuel. So it can make use of the infrastructure, same as it's being used for fossil fuel today.
And yes, with the equipment that we have today and the infrastructure that we have today, it is a convenient solution to work on this. Now that said, it's still early stage. This is still a development program. We still need to work on the catalyst for Ganesha to make it compatible with onboard dehydrogenation. So also the efficiency there needs to improve, But it has the potential to basically be a very efficient hygiene carrier towards the future.
And I don't know if maybe Lothar, if you want to add some comments to this question.
Maybe just a few. But you raised the main point, of course, that is also linked to compressed hydrogen, which is a which is a tank. So that definitely can be replaced by a normal tank, again, like for the fuel. The infrastructure you use the same kind of tanks, boats, to actually carry the hydrogen from places It's very cheap renewable energy sources to places where hydrogen is used. So you're actually solving also some of the disconnect and the transport cost for LOHC is definitely significantly lower actually by the principle than you would have for compressed hydrogen, For example, on these distances and there you also would not have an infrastructure like pipeline.
There's a lot of discussions, for example, in Northern Europe, where you use Gas pipelines, unfortunately, these type of pipelines do not exist, for example, in between Chile and Europe. And Chile might become a place on North Africa and in Europe, and then you would build on the boat. So I see LOHC as Carrier here has a very cost effective fit.
Yes. Sorry. Go ahead, Mark. If I
could just comment on that because liquid organohygen carriers are very effective to transport hydrogen lawn businesses.
I think people accept that.
What I'm struggling to understand is The establishment of a hydrogen infrastructure network, pipelines, liquefaction units, whatever it might be, In order to power fuel cell vehicles is a huge fixed cost. So
in betting
on another different technology, isn't that a little bit like trying to Reinvent the wheel when the wheel is already mostly been invented because you then have to double up the infrastructure to get the organic hydrogen carriers to the station. You need to get the and The equipment in the station you need to get the car companies to fit your catalyst and the additional unit and change the tank. It just feels like the whole world has gone so far down the and Pure hydrogen group for fuel cells that may be difficult to get everyone to change to this technology. But perhaps I'm missing something, because this is the first time I've heard.
No, no, no. Thank you again for your comment. I think what we are basically trying to accomplish here is we want the fastest penetration of fuel cell vehicles in the market. And anything we can do to resolve the bottleneck of fueling and infrastructure there where we can help, we will do that. We're not saying today that compressed hydrogen is going to be replaced by liquid organic hydrogen carriers.
Likely it will be and also if you look at the maturity of these technologies, that already compressed hydrogen is already being used today. Liquid organic hydrogen carriers is still an R and D program for the future. So we think it's definitely not being replacing compressed hydrogen, But that's one thing and that work will continue that this infrastructure will continue. Liquid Organic housing carriers, the idea would be if you can develop it well that you can reuse current fueling infrastructures to basically transport the LHC. So in that sense, it should be much cheaper to basically invest in that infrastructure compare to a completely new infrastructure that will be set up or that is being set up for compressed hydrogen.
But we are not saying here today that one will replace the other known to support the adoption of fuel cells in the market. We are basically looking at all angles to have a yes, to resolve this bottleneck of transportation.
Maybe just to add here the examples where this could ideally apply, we also see it more on The bigger mobile application like trains, trucks and potentially marine and maybe big cars, Of course, you're right. You have to install this dehydrogenation step as a unit that takes some place, and you will most probably not put that On the smallest car. But this being said, trucks are very often operated in very remote areas. Just go to a mine. And And there, it would be very costly to install that type of infrastructure just for that mine.
And here, actually, By easy carry of this LOHC and using it directly, for example, on the trucks makes it really efficient.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from the line Charlie Wells from Morgan Stanley. Please ask your question.
Hi, everyone. Thank you very much again for the call. Maybe just 2 from me. So first, thank you for kind of sharing how big the business is. I think you've got €40,000,000 of sales, including the metals.
Just want to check my understanding. That primarily today relates to the fuel cell business. And then when we think about the fuel If I remember rightly, I mean Hyundai has been obviously a very important collaborator and partner. Is it fair to say that much of that is associated to Sorry, your
business with
Hyundai. Just trying to understand the kind of 10 other OEMs that you're qualified with versus the Hyundai Partnership is obviously being somewhat longer standing. That's kind of the first question or questions, sorry. And then second one, just around PGM loadings and thinking about this organic liquid hydrogen, Is there a significant difference in the PGM loadings when using this solution? Is that an attraction?
And And maybe you can just remind us today kind of where Umicore sits on PGM loadings for their fuel cell technology. How does that compare to the industry and the benchmark currently set? Is that the benchmark currently set? Would be very helpful.
Yes, thank you for the question. So I think the first question was regarding the fuel cell business and the revenue that we generated. I would like to remind you That of course this call is mainly to talk about our strategic activities and the application domain that Umicore basically has and is developing in the green hydrogen economy space. But that said, we see definitely the fuel cell market and demand picking up. So that contributes largely to our profitable business that we have today.
And I don't know for the second part of the question. Joakim, I don't know if you want to clarify a little bit the numbers that you have already put that there in your presentation.
Yes, sure. I can do this. The second part of the question was on the number of customers and Hyundai being A dominating customer. Today, actually, we have multiple customers In the future business, and it's not only Hyundai. As we present in our presentation, we are qualified at more than 10 OEMs and we have multiple customers already today.
And to the first part, I mean, I confirm that The €40,000,000 turnover related to the fuel cell business. Sorry. So just to clarify, Hyundai isn't a kind of
a major customer as in it isn't a dominating customer. You have a broader mix now and And that relationship is diluted by the product mix.
Okay, understood.
And maybe to add to the question is, we are of course also today capable of supporting our demands in PEM electrolyzer catalysts. This market is still growing and it's still picking up and you've seen the numbers that we quoted around 6 to 7 tons by 2,030. That's the assumption our forecast today. So today we are well capable of supplying the smaller amounts of electrolytes catalyst also to our customer base there.
Sorry, maybe on the second question, I wasn't clear. I was just trying to understand the difference When we think about the organic liquid hydrogen technology that you're investigating and pursuing, Is there any difference in PGM loadings between the catalyst used in that process versus the traditional Gasified Pure Hydrogen.
Yes. So first of all, again, liquid organic hydrogen carrier, that program is an early stage R and D program. So the catalyst development work, that is basically what we are working on right now. So it's too early to say basically how that development is going to evolve over the coming years. But clearly, this is a different mechanism, this is a different system.
So we will use our catalyst know how that we have lots of expertise here in house at Umicore to basically establish and develop that's a catalyst for liquid organic hydrogen carriers. But it's too soon to say basically that development work that is still a roadmap for a couple of years ahead of us.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Your next question comes from the line of JB Rolland from Bank of America. JB Rolland, please unmute your line.
Sorry, can you hear me now?
Yes, we can hear you.
Hi. Thank you so much for this presentation this morning. Apologies for the delay. I just wanted to ask you two questions. The first one is in relation To the capital intensity of developing fuel cell catalysts and also other types of hydrogen catalysts.
Since we're this is an activity which is related to PGM, could you give us an idea about how capital intensive this activity is Compare, for example, to cathode materials and whether you would expect or we should expect that Mass market development would require you to raise capital if your balance sheet couldn't sustain the net debt to EBITDA leverage? And then the second question is related to barriers to entry. From what I understand, It looks like you have an early mover advantage given the number of qualification with OEMs that you already have at this stage. And I'm wondering beyond the early mover advantage whether you feel that barriers to entry
Yes. Thank you for the question. So regarding your first question on capital intensity, we will not talk about financials today in this call. But clearly, as we've mentioned before, we see the market and the market opportunities growing in our fuel cell catalyst and later on also for the electrolyzer catalysts. So there is definitely opportunities for Umicore that Umicore will continue to basically grow our business there.
Then regarding barriers to entry, you're correct. I think at Umicore and at Umicore, We have, of course, a couple of advantages. We have 3 decades, almost 30 years of experience in Catalyst Development. We have from the beginning very strong and early engagements with a broad range of partners across the entire ecosystem in the fuel cell space, that helps us of course to early on already co design almost material into the system, which gives us, of course, at this moment an advantage and that is also know how that we've been building up over the last years. And of course also as we make more sustainable metal supply chain and metal sourcing, this is of course also the expertise and the way we work here within Umicore for sustainable metal supply is of course also an advantage for Umicore and a potential barrier for others to come in there.
And if you may maybe just add something Jean Baptiste to the capital intensity. So today, of course, it's too early to tell, but what we can confirm is that it's not at all comparable with the existing mass production of the cathode business.
Thank you so much. Can I just squeeze another quick question in relation to your Qualification with OEM? Can you give me some granularity about maybe not the names, of course, Just an idea about over how which period of time you have built this portfolio of customers, please?
Joakim, do you want to take this question?
Yes, sure. I can take this question. This is not customer relations that you build overnight. This is a result of Long term cooperations with global OEM. This being said, we also see a lot of traction in the market at the moment, and it's clear Such cooperations have accelerated over the last couple of years with all the attention on The hydrogen economy.
Okay. Thank you. And And to give a comment to the entry barriers in the field, people are working with Fuel cell catalyst, they will know that this is in fact a quite complicated catalyst system, and they will know That it takes a long time to develop optimal solutions in this area, and the entry barrier is not small.
Your next question comes from the line of Sebastian Bray from Berenberg. Please ask your question.
Good morning and thank you for the presentation. I would have Three questions, please. The first is on the sales figure of €40,000,000 Could you give us an idea of the Step down in sales that would occur if you were to exclude the metals component is about EUR 30,000,000 excluding metals A reasonable guess. My second question is on end market application. Photon exchange technology has several applications and In stationary storage or stationary power generation at a low level, why is this not a market that Umicore has targeted?
And my third question is on the catalyst loading for electrolyzer technologies versus fuel cells. Why is the tonnage of catalyst required to make 1 gigawatt of electrolyzer so much lower than the amount required 1 gigawatt of fuel cell. Thank you.
So thank you for the questions. So if I pause here, 3 questions. The first question was regarding the $40,000,000 sales and the metal part of that one. So today, we will not comment on any takedown basically on the revenue and also on the level of revenue. Certainly won't do today.
I think your second question was the end market applications. And if I understood you well, you basically say why PEM electrolyzers are not used for storage? Is that what you asked?
Nafee, my question was more so there are some applications Pam, for smaller stationary power generation, why is this not a market Umicore is targeting?
So what we are, so maybe just to be clear, so our focus is catalyst development for the PEM electrolyzer market. Today, if you look at the 2 most mature electrolyzer technologies that are out there, 1 is the alkaline, 1 is the penic electrolyzer. They have, of course, different advantages and disadvantages. Where PEM has the advantage that it has indeed a smaller footprint that is that and that it can also its dynamic behavior allows us to deal for instance with its intermittent energy from renewable sources. So that is typically where a PEN electrolyzes because the compactness and also the dynamic behavior is utilized.
So we are working clearly with our capital activity towards that application domain. And maybe also as I mentioned before, the cadmium group metals are of course used for PEM electrolyzers. There we can derive from our know how in our fuel cell catalyst development work, while metals catalyst metals used for alkaline our non precious metals today. But we clearly cover that application space with our pen electrolyte And then the third question regarding the catalytic loading. So clearly it also depends the loading depends also on the environmental conditions and the harsh conditions in which this electrolyte or fuel cell operates.
And typically when you look at a fuel cell car, the environment there It's something that you need to basically make sure that your catalyst can do the work of activating, selecting the right materials to do the bonding, making sure that you have durability there. So that typically makes the loading of fuel cell catalyst a little bit higher than Electrolux. But I'm sure that also Joakim and Lothar can comment on that last question if they want
to. Yes, I can start. It's Jorgen here. First of all, for fuel cell applications, Especially in automotive applications. In order to reach the power density requirements and the durabilities, We are today at catalyst loadings in the range from 0.8 to 1 gram per kilowatt With platinum loadings in the range from 0.2 to 0.3 grams per kilowatt.
And And this will give you the power density and the durability required in automotive applications.
Yes. And just for me to add, and if you compare that now for electrolyzer, as An was stating, It's operated in a completely different regime. You can imagine if you drive a car on a highway and you do this Acceleration and this acceleration, you will have a lot of fuel starvation, how we call it. And that is actually causing a lot of stress For the material of a fuel cell. And this you counteract with a tendency of higher loading to actually Protect against these kinds of events in terms of durability.
And that's we also talk about dynamics on electrolyzer, but here we talk Completely different type of dynamic of being wind a little bit hard, harder or less hard. And we are not talking about events like On a mobile application. That's the reason.
Yes. Just to thank you. Just for My first question sorry, my second question on the stationary power generation applications was more and To fuel cells, is Umicore involved in stationary power generation applications with its proton exchange fuel cell As opposed to electrolyzer technology. And if not, why has it chosen to focus exclusively on the market for mobility?
We are not limiting the application space today. I think our catalyst development work that we are doing it is suitable also for stationary fuel cells. We will definitely look into that. And I think Joakim is very well positioned to comment on that.
Yes, indeed. No, we do not exclude the stationary power area. The design of the fuel cells and the catalysts are also here a little Different from mobile applications, but you certainly target both applications.
That is helpful. Thank you for taking my questions.
Your next question comes from the line of Muklu Gandigan from ABN AMRO.
Yes. Good morning, everyone. Two questions. The first one is on the estimated market size of 150 gigawatts in 2,030 for your mobile and I was wondering if you could split that between HDV and LDV. And also what kind of market share have you assumed in LDV?
Second question is on PGM content, on the loading. Can you tell us what your assumptions are in terms of PGM loading, I. E, Which metals will you use most? And how does it compare to your current PGM loadings in your existing Mobile emission catalysts business. Thank you.
So Joakim, do you want to take those two questions? First one about the market size of 150 gigawatts?
Yes. Here we Today, I don't really want to give a specific split between heavy duty and light duty applications, Also because this is early stage at the moment. What we Can say is that we expect a significant portion of Of both segments in this business. This is what we can say today.
And then Okay, sorry. Maybe to add to that question. So when you see all the ambitions of governments and announcements from major OEMs globally, It is, of course, the indication of rapid growth fuel cell business in the coming years as well in especially in HDV, but also in long range LDV. Just to add to your games' comments. And then the second one was on the European.
Yes. And as I said before, today in mobile applications, we are at 0.2, 0.3 Grams of platinum per kilowatt as a loading. And this also answers Your question that it will primarily be platinum that will be used as an active
motor remover. That's the point that we can say today apart from of course, part of our development programs is of course to see how we can optimize the performance and the durability of the fuel cell catalyst, while decreasing the metal loading and in such a way come to more cost efficient solution. That's definitely part of the development program, but we cannot comment in more detail today.
And your next question comes from the line of Andrew Stach from UBS. Please ask your question.
Yes. Good morning. Thanks for taking the question. It's a question about the market structure in the Catalyst, Amiez Harrier. You note that you have 10 customers already, and you say within OEMs and also the Just wondering if you could let us know what the balance is between the OEM and the system providers.
So I'm assuming Companies such as Ballard and Plug Power. And a broader question, but staying with the same theme. If you take a 10 year view, how do you see this market looking in terms of who gets To call the specification. So in other words, if you're selling a catalyst in this market, do you think ultimately the OEM Puts the spec into its engine and dictates that sale? Or do you think it's the fuel cell system provider such as Ballard?
Thank you.
So I think what I can say to answer maybe both questions please that we collaborate early on with many players across the entire value chain that can be the membrane providers, spec providers, system providers. And this way we basically work together early on for the catalyst development in the system and that we can do then for multiple fuel cell platforms. We this better be the way we work today that optimizes our catalyst early on in the systems. And your second question was about What was the second question? What is your second question?
I'm sorry.
Yes. Maybe it wasn't clear. I'll start again. So if you take the battery material business you have, one of the debates I think the investment community has is It's who is putting the battery technology on the car. Is it the cell provider?
Or is it the cathode company? Who's calling the shots and what goes on the platform? So it's the same question really for fuel cell components. Do you think it would be Ballard who would, In the end, spec the platform for the OEM? Or do you think you'll directly relay that to the OEM?
I think, well, it's too early. The value chain is still developing. So it's too early to say how the ecosystem will evolve. Today, we work with all players in the ecosystem, including also car OEMs, who basically understand system specifications and that we also do. But it's too early to say how the value chain in the end will develop.
Okay. Thank you.
Now I would like to hand the call back to the speakers for some closing comments. Thank you.
Yes, hello, Saskia speaking. I'm afraid you'll have to close here. So I just wanted before we end this call today to Pete that the strategic focus is for us clearly on clean mobility, where you can develop be in close collaboration with the OEMs that I just wanted to clarify as there were some comments or questions around the stationery applications as well. So thank you for attending today's call. If you have any remaining questions, please don't hesitate to get in touch with Investor Relations.
Have a nice day. Bye bye.