Forterra plc (LON:FORT)
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May 14, 2026, 4:37 PM GMT
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Earnings Call: H2 2022

Mar 9, 2023

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Morning, welcome to our 2022 results presentation. Firstly, it's great to see so many people in the room. Thank you for traveling. Let's kick off looking at a few highlights. It's our highest profit yet, 2022. Best result we've had. Clearly we're really pleased with that, and this is before we've opened the new factories that we're building, which we'll talk about a little more as we go on. I think we did a good job last year in managing the cost inflation. Clearly, cost inflation was the topic of 2022, and our commercial team did a great job in passing those cost increases through to our customers. Last year, we spent GBP 44 million on capital expenditure, reinvesting in our business, and we also returned GBP 64 million to our shareholders.

On top of that, we're pleased to be recommending what will be the highest dividend yet. Before I hand over to Ben, who will tell you how many beans he counted last year, just a reminder of our investment and the investments that we've made in the business. We're currently running three large strategic projects, investing GBP 137 million in growing our business, both by adding capacity, improving efficiency and decarbonizing. As we'll talk about a little bit more later in the presentation, we're now at the point of starting to see the benefits of those investments come through. With that, let me hand over to Ben.

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

A few issues. Morning, everyone. I'm pleased to be here today reporting on an excellent set of 2022 results.

The story of 2022 is one of strong trading, which only we can write at the end of the year. Cost inflation was a defining feature of 2022, although our agile approach to pricing allowed us to successfully recover input cost inflation. Revenues increased by 23% on a full year basis to GBP 456 million, with brick prices especially increasing on multiple occasions during the year in response to rising costs, with the full year benefit not visible in the 2022 P&L. Our EBITDA increased by 27% to GBP 89.2 million, with PBT improving by almost 40% to GBP 70.6 million, assisted by static depreciation charges and a reduction in our finance expense.

I would also like to highlight our EBITDA margin increasing by 60 basis points to 19.6%, demonstrating our success in recovering input cost inflation. The benefit of the GBP 40 million share buyback completed in the year, with 15.8 million shares repurchased and subsequently canceled, increases the year-on-year growth in EPS to over 50% at 26.4 pence per share. Our cash generation remained exceptionally strong, with reported cash flow from operations of almost GBP 80 million, highlighting the recurring quality of our earnings. This feeds through to our balance sheet, where we reported net debt before leases of only GBP 5.9 million, and that's after returning a total of GBP 64.2 million to our shareholders through the buyback and dividends during 2022.

In accordance with our policy of distributing 55% of our earnings, we are now recommending a final dividend of GBP 0.101, which when added to the GBP 0.046 interim dividend paid back in October, gives us a full year dividend of GBP 0.147, representing an almost 50% uplift on the prior year. Moving on. Just a quick look at the profit and loss. I'm not going to spend too long on this slide, but it's a good opportunity at this stage to highlight the strength of performance of our Bespoke Products division, which made an EBITDA contribution of almost GBP 10 million, which becomes a reported EBITDA of GBP 3.7 million after the allocation of central costs. Our effective tax rate was slightly lower than the prior year, at 19.3%.

It's probably a good time to remind everyone that the rate of U.K. corporation tax will increase to 25% in April 2023, that will increase our effective tax rate going forward. Actually, I should have said earlier that we show all of these numbers before exceptional items. The only exceptional item in the year was a GBP 2.3 million profit on the disposal of some surplus land, where we realized GBP 2.5 million in cash. Moving on to have a look in the segments in a little bit more detail. First of all, bricks and blocks. The bricks and blocks segment is the primary driver of our result. We have a very strong performance in the year, evidenced by the greater than 20% or GBP 15 million increase in EBITDA to GBP 85.5 million.

Our capacity constraint and lack of inventory limited sales for much of the year, with market demand only softening at the end of the year. Significant price increases were delivered in the year, with the prices of most of our bricks rising by a cumulative 50% during 2022. Despite a strong increase in absolute EBITDA, segmental margin did fall slightly as selling prices necessarily followed cost increases. Increasing production inefficiencies at the old Desford brick factory, which we expect to close for demolition at the end of this month, along with production issues within our Aircrete blocks business, also weighed upon these margins. Moving on, to look at Bespoke Products. We're particularly pleased with the performance of the Bespoke Products segment.

As a reminder here, the Bison flooring business is by far the largest component of this segment, and it is this business that delivered the strong performance, providing a contribution to group EBITDA of almost GBP 10 million prior to overhead allocations. That's double what we delivered in 2021. As a reminder, again, that's off the back of a minimal capital employed. The performance of this business is underpinned by our end-to-end customer service proposition, which stretches from design right through to installation. As with bricks and blocks, we have also been able to price dynamically, increasing our selling prices to cover rapidly increasing input costs, including insulation and steel. With our flooring business now operating from a single facility, we have optimized our capacity, enabling sales of precast concrete floor beams to increase by 9% relative to the prior year.

We also are able to focus on the highest margin work, which benefits the bottom line. Given the current uncertainty, I thought it was useful that we just have a bit of a look at our cost base. With the uncertainty around surrounding the short term demand for our products, our agility to flex production and reduce our cost base is important to emphasize. We have explained before that our cost base differs between our clay and concrete businesses, with the clay brick business having a greater fixed cost base. We do see some stability returning to our cost base in 2023, and while some signals for ongoing inflation remain, as things presently stand, we are comfortable that our selling prices are aligned to the cost base that we envisage in 2023.

We have secured at least 80% of our energy requirement for the year. This percentage is probably a little bit more fluid than in recent years, given the uncertainty around the production levels that we're going to need to service customer demand. We do expect our energy costs to increase year-over-year, with 2023 expected to be the peak in our energy costs. When it comes to the costs on here that we've classified as fixed, the largest of those being labor, we are experienced in managing this cost base, having done so in the global financial crisis and are more recently in 2016 following the Brexit referendum and again in 2020 at the height of the COVID pandemic.

We have a number of levers that we can pull to manage our cost base should we need them in response to any fall in demand. While there is presently a great deal of uncertainty, we are currently planning for an underlying fall in demand of the new homes of 20% relative to 2022 levels. It's worth adding as well that we began 2023 needing to rebuild our inventories to give customers certainty in our ability to supply such that they will have the confidence that they no longer need to rely on imported bricks. Our new Desford factory, with the effective 22% increase in brick production capacity that we'll ultimately provide, is fundamental in building this customer confidence.

We also benefit from the optionality to switch some production to the new Desford factory from less efficient factories, maximizing this market-leading efficiency that will be gained as we ramp up production. This has the potential to reduce the drop through impact should sales volumes fall in 2023. Just moving on to our cash flow. The cash generation of our business has always been one of our strengths, and this is again demonstrated this year with an operating cash flow of almost GBP 90 million. Capital expenditure totaled GBP 44.1 million, with the Desford brick factory accounting for around GBP 27 million of this total. Our maintenance CapEx in the year totaled GBP 10.5 million. This is slightly lower than the guided long-term run rate of GBP 14 million.

With the GBP 40 million share buyback completed in the year, along with the GBP 24 million of dividends paid, we returned a total of GBP 64 million of cash to our shareholders during the year. During the year, we also spent almost GBP 12 million purchasing shares for our employee benefit trust. This is completely separate to the share buyback, and the level of our purchases in 2022 was inflated due to an earlier pause in purchasing shares during the COVID pandemic. Accordingly, payments to acquire shares will be much lower in 2023 and are expected to be around GBP 4 million.

These shares will be used to settle employee share schemes, by far the largest of which being the three-year all employee Sharesave scheme, where a large number of shares will be required at the end of 2023, with the company subsequently benefiting from a sizable cash inflow in early 2024 as employees use their savings to buy these shares at a discount. Final point on this slide is just the increase in our lease liabilities relates to the continued replacement of a large portion of our distribution fleet with the latest, most efficient vehicles. Just looking at CapEx in a little bit more detail and just a bit of guidance as to our forward spend. This summarizes how things presently stand for the next couple of years.

We're continuing to invest in our three ongoing strategic projects, with each of them offering attractive levels of returns. The guidance on this slide focuses on existing commitments and is subject to increase, especially in 2024, if we were to commit to one of the further strategic projects in our pipeline, which we are continuing to progress. 2023 will be the year of greatest spend on the Wilnecote project, whose cost we now expect to be closer to GBP 30 million as opposed to the original estimate of GBP 27 million, primarily driven by inflation. We will, however, retain our financial discipline, and as I mentioned earlier, we have a number of levers we can pull to manage production and optimize our cost base. We would look to manage inventories to three months worth in brick and block. Sorry, I've managed to screw this up. I'll come back.

Just quickly on working capital, as I said, our working capital cost base, overall working capital remains pretty stable during the year. When looking at inventory, the increase in the carrying value is driven by an increase in valuation, with the physical quantities on hand remaining at historic low levels. Although with slower market demand, we have now seen some inventory build since the beginning of the year. In terms of guidance for 2023, we do expect to build further inventory. We would expect to have an inventory build of around GBP 25 million of inventory affecting the cash flow in 2023, and that takes us from around one month finished brick inventory, which is where we ended 2022, and we'd look to rebuild that to around three months.

As I said earlier, we need to rebuild inventory to ensure that the levels of customer service we offer will be persuasive in convincing our customers that they no longer need to rely on imports. As I said, we will retain our financial discipline, and I referred to earlier we have a number of levers that we can pull to manage production. As I say, we will make sure we limit brick inventories and don't let them grow out of control. Moving on, looking at our balance sheet. We closed the year with a minimal net debt of GBP 5.9 million after spending GBP 44 million on capital expenditure and returning GBP 64 million to shareholders in the form of both buyback and dividends.

At the beginning of 2023, we have completed the refinancing of our GBP 170 million revolving credit facility, with it now extending to the beginning of January 2027. We also have a further 18-month extension option, which is subject to lender consent. This facility is now sustainability-linked with our decarbonization, plastic reduction, and employee development targets now embedded, the achievement of these being rewarded with a modest reduction in interest rate. At the end of the year, we had GBP 40 million drawn on this facility, with the offsetting large cash balance of GBP 34 million being received from customers at the end of the year. Just to sort of summarize from my perspective, we face this current period of uncertain market demand from a position of strength with minimal debt and long-term committed facilities with significant headroom.

Our strong balance sheet leaves us well-placed to continue with our pipeline of attractive organic investments, alongside providing optionality for both bolt-on acquisitions and further shareholder returns. I'll now hand you back to Stephen to talk a little bit more about the market.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Thank you, Ben. Let's start off and look at the market that we supply, which is primarily the U.K. residential market. Look, we're a long-term business that takes a long-term view. We've got 50 years of mineral reserves. We build factories that are generally there for 40-odd years. If we look at the medium and long-term fundamentals of the market that we supply, we are very confident that they remain very strong. We are likely to see, as Ben said, a dip in demand this year following the political instability from last year, and we wait to see what the spring selling season brings from our house builders. Our working assumption at this stage is that the market will be down around 20%, and I'll explain a little more what that means.

Just as a reminder, the U.K. brick industry, the capacity, the installed capacity is still below what it was before the global financial crisis when 20% of the capacity was permanently removed. By the end of this year, between us and our competitors, we'll have added back about half of that capacity. The industry has been operating at full capacity for many, many years now. What we've seen as a result of that is imports increase fairly dramatically. If we look at imports in a bit more detail, last year in the U.K., there were 2.5 billion bricks sold, of which 570 million were imported. That's a record number. To give a bit of color to that, in 2019, there were 400 million bricks imported.

When we listed our business in 2016, there were 220 million bricks imported, and in 2007, pre-financial crisis, there were just 35 million bricks imported. These rapid growth in the number of imports is very much been to service the industry that the market that the U.K. manufacturing industry has been unable to service. What we anticipate this year is a steep drop in the number of bricks imported to the U.K., which will cushion us from the impact of a fall in demand and support the U.K. manufacturing business. Bricks clearly are not well suited. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know they're not well suited to travel. They're heavy and cheap.

Therefore, we expect, we will displace, and our U.K. competitors will displace imports quite significantly this year. I think the one thing that's probably fairly short-term and we're seeing at the moment is the customers destocking. Both the number of building materials on site and in builders merchants and also the work in progress that are being held by house builders, we're seeing that reduce. Now, we've seen this before, where as the industry cycles, we see working capital held by our customers reduce, and therefore there's an impact on demand. We see the counter to that when the market comes back, and we see a pickup in demand.

I think, therefore, we'll see this year slightly H2 weighted as in the very early part of this year, we'll see an impact on our sales of our customers destocking. Having said that, I think we're already seeing some early signs of improvement. There's a lot of macros around customer sentiment that what the house builders are saying in their own presentations, and also the mortgage rates have dropped a little bit in recent weeks. More importantly, in our business, our floor beam business that Ben talked about earlier, which sits in our Bespoke Products segment. That's the product that we put into a house first. It's an obvious thing to say, it's the ground floor. Obviously, the house is built after.

We've seen pretty subdued sales through December through February, as we've seen house builders clearly build out what they've got, with the work in progress they've got. In fact, the last three weeks, we've seen significant week-on-week increases in our order intake. That gives us some confidence that when we say that we think this year will be half two weighted and that the market will recover, we think we're seeing early signs of that. I do stress it's fairly early signs, but very encouraging nonetheless. If I move on to talk about our strategy a little bit. Look, our strategy is to invest in our business organically, where we're growing our capacity, we're making our business more efficient and taking cost out, and more importantly, we're decarbonizing. When we look at how we spend money, we're looking at three clear areas.

Strengthening our core business, do what we do better, do it cheaper and producing less carbon. Expanding our range of products, giving more products to our customers, greater choice. Thirdly, innovation, new products, completely different things. I'll explain these a little bit more in a moment. Maybe this is a good opportunity just to remind everyone why clay bricks are the products that are used to build houses. Clay bricks are and will continue to be the most cost-effective way to do a really good-looking, durable, long-lasting maintenance-free facade to a family home. By investing in our business, by the capital that we're investing, we are rapidly decarbonizing and making our bricks much more environmentally friendly and reducing the carbon emissions that we emit.

We believe clay bricks are and will be the product of choice for many years to come. The factory that we've been talking about seems like a long while now, since 2018, the new factory that we're building at Desford in Leicestershire is now operational. There's a bit more work left to do on the project, hence there's a bit more capital to spend this year. We're making bricks, as you can see in the picture, and we will be dispatching bricks to customers imminently. As a reminder, this will be, we believe, the largest and most efficient brick factory in Europe, and will, subject to the market by 2025, generate annual incremental EBITDA growth of GBP 25 million a year. A significant project and a really exciting point.

We're going to be inviting people to an opening of this plant in May, so we can take people round and show what we spent the money on, having talked about it for the last five years. Secondly, we're redeveloping our Wilnecote factory. This is slightly different. This is a complete redevelopment of an existing factory, including a new kiln, and will allow us to produce a greater range of products. Different colors, textures, sizes, very much targeting the architecturally specified market rather than the volume house building market, which we can make higher margins from and higher selling prices and higher margins. Again, an exciting project, currently underway. It's a big construction site. There's no pictures of it at the moment 'cause it looks like a construction site.

We will be commissioning this factory in quarter four of this year to sell bricks next year, and we expect annual incremental EBITDA of GBP 7 million a year from this project. The third project is up at our factory in Accrington, in Lancashire, where we're adding a line to make brick slips, so thin bricks for cladding high-rise and modular buildings. This is a growth market and will allow us to get brick back into that market, a market that brick has perhaps lost a little bit in the last few years by providing a lightweight solution. We will use the existing kilns, and therefore this is a relatively inexpensive investment at GBP 12 million because we're not having to build a whole new factory. We're building a new brick or slip manufacturing line and packaging line utilizing the existing kilns.

For every 3 bricks that we put through the kiln, we effectively lose 1 brick. And the break even will be around 10 million brick slips a year, although we will be able to make up to nearly 50 million brick slips a year. Let's just move on to capital allocation. Perhaps I can repeat our allocation priorities. Firstly, a strategic organic investment to deliver growth, efficiency, decarbonization, and we've talked about that a lot. Secondly, a dividend payout of 55%, and we're, as we said earlier, pleased to be recommending by far the highest dividend that we've recommended. Thirdly, bolt-ons as we see anything suitable, and if not, and we'll keep a watching brief on returning returns to shareholders as and when we have surplus capital. This is very much a circular exercise.

The more we invest in our business, the more cash that we generate, the more we can both return money to shareholders and reinvest in the business. We're very much about taking a medium to long-term view of reinvesting capital in the business for future growth and to strengthen the business. Let's move on to sustainability. Clearly a key topic. We set new targets in 2020, and as a reminder, between 2010 and 2019, we reduced our carbon emissions by 22%. The target from 2019 to 2030 is a further reduction of 32%. We are rapidly investing and adopting new technologies to decarbonize our business.

Perhaps I can move on to talk about that in a little more detail. If we look at energy to start with, we've signed a power purchase agreement for us to take renewable energy from a dedicated solar farm that is being built to service our business and provide 70% of our electricity needs from 2025. Actually, good progress is being made there, we'll start to take electricity a year early. When we announced this, we said 25, we're going to start taking electricity from next year. This is not only a good thing from decarbonizing and sustainability, it's also cost-effective. There's two significant benefits to our business there.

We're also spending, at the moment, GBP 2.5 million putting solar panels onto the roof of the new factory at Desford, which provide the base load of power for that factory. Other new technologies that we're working on, first of all, carbon capture. I think this has accelerated a lot, and we're quite excited about this. There's a long way to go and a lot of work to do, but we're working with a partner looking at how we can capture the carbon that comes out of our kilns, and we hopefully will have more to talk about that in the coming months and years. We're also running trials with hydrogen.

You can see from the picture currently it's bottled hydrogen, firing one of the kilns to see how we get on with the product there. We're also looking at biomass, and I think it'll be a combination of various alternative fuels that we use in the future. We're also working on alternate raw materials. A product called calcined clay, which is a fired clay, waste bricks, that are ground very, very finely, can be used as a cement substitute. If you think of the circular economy impact, if we can use our waste product and create a cement substitute, there is a significant win there, both economically and from a carbon reduction point of view. I think when we set our targets in 2020, we thought that a zero emissions plant was a long way off.

It's still a way off, but we're actually making better progress than we thought we might, looking at how we can use biomass, how we can use hydrogen, how we can capture carbon. We're currently looking at a sort of blueprint for how we can build a zero carbon brick factory, which is probably a few years off, but is incredibly exciting, and we didn't think we'd be already at this point working on a project like that. I'll move on to our outlook. Look, as we said, we're basing our numbers on a underlying fall in demand of 20%, which will be cushioned somewhat by reduction in imports. On that basis, our expectations for 2023 remain unchanged.

The, as Ben said, we are well practiced at managing capacity utilization and our cost base, and we will pull the levers that we need to pull over the coming weeks and months, depending on what we see from our customers during their spring selling season. We did, increase our prices at the beginning of this year, and I think we've done a good job at passing cost increases on to customers, and I think we're well set up price-wise for this year. I think long term, we have very, a great deal of confidence in the market that we service and the fundamentals of our business.

Look, just before, I open to questions, this is my last results presentation, and after 11 years in the job, I'd just like to thank Ben, for his challenge, a lot of that, support and particularly friendship. Thank you. I look forward to attending future AGMs, and I hope that Neil, my successor, puts on a better quality of sandwich than I ever did. On that note, let's open to questions. Aynsley.

Aynsley Lammin
Equity Research Analyst, Investec

Thanks very much, Aynsley Lammin from Investec. Just three from me, please. First, could you just remind us or tell us how much of the kind of net incremental capacity will be coming on this year as Desford ramps up in terms of number of bricks? Secondly, just on the imports, you know, with your 20% fall in the market, what would you expect the imports to fall by? You know, what's the kind of price differential at the moment between imports, domestic, how sticky are the contracts? Just a bit more color around that. Thirdly, just on price increases. With the price increase you've kind of successfully passed on in January and the annualization of last year's, what does the price increase look like on average for 2023 at this point? Thanks.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Okay. Shall I take the first one?

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

Go on then.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Desford is effectively 120 million bricks additional capacity. We won't see all of that this year. We've got the first kiln lit, which we're producing bricks from, and the next kiln will light next month. We'll probably see incremental capacity somewhere around 30-40 million bricks extra this year. That will increase next year and to a total of 120 million extra bricks. You won't get all of that this year, but you'll start to get a good chunk of that. Of course, even the bricks that replace what's being produced in the old factory, which shuts at the end of this month, will be at a substantially lower cost of production and a substantially lower carbon emissions. The imports, yeah, look, it's difficult to know exactly.

Imports were GBP 570 million last year. I would expect that to be GBP 250 million-GBP 300 million . Clearly, there are people that have had bricks made in Europe. They're probably a little homeless at the moment, and they still need to import those bricks and sell them. We need that to wash through, which will take a few months. We've seen this happen before. We saw this happen in 2016, where the number of imports dropped quite dramatically, and it took a few months for that to wash through. I would expect imports to roughly half this year. I would have thought the run rate by the end of this year will be at half, maybe slightly less.

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

Looking at pricing for 2023. We increased the prices of our bricks by a further 5% in January. That's off the back of a cumulative 50% increase through 2022. Some of the concrete products increased by slightly lower numbers than that, just to the nature of their cost base. In terms of you're looking at revenue overall for 23, you're probably looking at about a 15% price increase kind of year-on-year. Obviously, taking into account the full year effect of the 2022 increases, which actually probably isn't a million miles away from the volume decrease that we anticipate. Therefore, a revenue that's broadly flat year-on-year probably isn't far off the mark from what we see at the moment.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Christian.

Christian York
Analyst, Numis

Thank you. Christian York from Numis. Three questions, please, from me. First of all, could you just maybe remind us of the Desford efficiency benefits, maybe versus, you know, the average cost of brick production across the portfolio or even the sort of least efficient brick production? Just on imports, again, it sort of feels imports, you know, the macro will be the macro, but imports are quite a key element of what happens to volumes. It sort of all makes sense, but what are the risks around imports actually not falling as quickly as you expect? Interesting to hear about the, you know, potential future zero carbon brick plant. What is needed? Is it sort of getting more work on hydrogen and more work on carbon capture?

Are those the two dynamics? If you're gonna sort of roughly guess, do you think that's something that could happen this decade? Thank you.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Do you want to take the first one, and I'll take the second two?

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

Yeah. I mean, I think first of all, Desford is gonna be evolving over the next couple of years. We're not gonna get the full efficiency in year one. I think the key debate in year one is almost comparing Desford in terms of the new efficient factory with the old inefficient factory. The cost of production there is at least sort of 30%-40% less than the old factory. When you actually do it on average against the rest of the business in terms of the whole asset footprint, it will be a lower number. We do expect to kinda continue to leverage the efficiencies of Desford. You won't get the full efficiency until the second kiln is open. Yeah, we do have the optionality. I mean, that actually increases our resilience this year.

We will look at our whole asset footprint, and if demand is lower, we will look to ensure we maximize production from the new efficient factory, and if necessarily, make adjustments to production elsewhere.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

In imports, I think there's two aspects to this answer, Christian. First, our inventories have not recovered since the pandemic, and therefore, our customer service has been compromised by the fact that we don't have any inventory and we've been hand to mouth. That's not a surprise. So I think the first thing we need to do is, to some extent, rebuild some inventory, and Ben's talked about the working capital implication there, and we need to give our customers a degree of confidence that we can supply them the bricks they want from stock. That is something that we are currently progressing.

I think the second thing is probably what I hinted at when I answered Aynsley's question, is around these homeless imports and products that have been made, there may well be for a short term, and perhaps that's six months, see some bricks flying around that people have had manufactured that they need to sell 'cause they've got cash tied up in. These are smaller distributors that probably need the cash, not large manufacturers that can afford to sit on them. I think that there may be some short-term disruption. I think if we can convince our customers that we've got inventory, that our service levels are back to what they were pre-pandemic, and that we can supply them with cost-effective, lower carbon products that are made locally, I don't think there's a massive risk.

Around the new brick factory and zero carbon. Yeah, I think carbon capture is probably the biggest element of it. I don't think it's just hydrogen. I think it's biomass as well. There are some technologies that we're looking at at the moment where kilns are fired using a combination of natural gas and biomass, and that natural gas could switch to hydrogen. Hydrogen is not yet readily available. The main problem with hydrogen is getting it. It's, you know, you saw the picture earlier of a load of cylinders. That's 'cause that's all there is. We're way off piped hydrogen. I think, yes, this decade is reasonable to assume that we can build something, but I think it'll be carbon capture rather than hydrogen.

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

We're also designing a plant with future optionality. Yeah, I think it's highly likely that we'll build the plant in this decade. We can then build it for certain things to be retrofitted later on, so it may not have full carbon capture originally, but if we design it with the space for it to be bolted on in due course, it allows us to kind of develop the factory over time. I think the next brick factory we build after Desford and Wilnecote will certainly be capable of being truly zero emissions, and that doesn't involve lots of offsets or anything like that.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Sam.

Speaker 10

Thank you. Morning, everyone. I think I've got three. On the 20% kind of volume assumption, I think, Ben, in your comments, I think you said new build. Just to get the bridge between what you were assuming by end market there, and then also with the destocking piece.

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

Yeah

I think it would be interesting.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Yeah.

Speaker 10

Secondly, on the imports, I think that 2007 number surprised me given historically people have talked about GBP 150 million-GBP 200 million of structural imports, if you like. What changed between 2007 and 2014 to make that structural and could that become unstructural going forward? Could we go below that GBP 250 million that you talked about? Just on the capital investment piece and the GBP 200 million pipeline, I presume we're still just talking U.K. for the business going forward.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Do you want to pick up on that?

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

I mean, I'll pick up the first one. I mean, I think we just used a high level, kind of 20% fall for underlying demand for the market. We're predominantly kind of new build focused, as you know. If you apply something roughly similar to RMI, it's gonna be in the rounding. We've kept it simple and just said 20%, you may wish to apply a slightly different assumption to RMI.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

The CPI is saying 9% for RMI. It's probably slightly lower, but look, we're not trying to give a massively detailed forecast 'cause we don't know. We're working on an assumption of 20%.

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

Yeah. The key.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

We'll see.

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

The key point to emphasize is effectively we're not really giving guidance. We're saying that we don't know what's going to happen to the market. There's a lot of uncertainty. It's for the house builders to see how they get on, how their spring selling season goes. We have kind of used the assumption that if it is 20% down, then we're comfortable with the consensus that's out there. But we're not in a position to be able to say any more strongly than anybody else, whether it will be 20% or something different.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

I think, to answer the second question, Sam, what happened with imports was, as a result of the financial crisis, there was 20% of the U.K. manufacturing capacity taken out. They were generally very small factories that were pretty inefficient. What happened was, naturally, the range of products available from U.K. brick manufacturers reduced, and what you've seen is for the more, sort of expensive architect-led, slightly more unusual product, you've seen a growth in imports come in to recover that. Look, we've been pretty open that a lot of the money that we've spent has been around supplying the volume house building market. Yes, we're now investing in our Wilnecote factory to supply this specification market.

Clearly that specification market, the capacity that was taken out in the financial crisis has been replaced somewhat by imports. Thirdly, in terms of the CapEx pipeline, today we're very much looking at U.K. That doesn't mean no never, but at the moment, our focus is organic investment in our business to increase our cash returns.

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

Just whilst the microphone's finding its way over to Jon, if anyone's on the webcast and would like to ask a question by typing into the box, then please do so now.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Very good. John.

Jon Bell
Equity Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Thanks. Jon Bell from Deutsche Bank. I think I've got three. Apologies for going on about imports, but presumably the sellers of imported bricks will try and defend their position. What do you expect to see from them, and is it purely down to price? Second question is, some of the house builders have been buying concrete bricks, presumably because they couldn't get a hold of clay bricks. Now they've got a better chance of doing that. Are you seeing them revert back to the clay brick market, and is that meaningful enough to move the dial at all? The third question is just on energy. Obviously you're very well covered for 2023. Can you tell us how things stand for 2024? Thank you.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Okay. I'll pick up the first two. Yeah, look, people that are making a living selling imported bricks into the U.K. are gonna fight to keep that market, there's no question. And the market that I just talked about answering Sam's question, the sort of specification market, I think those products are here and they're probably not going away in a hurry. I think there are some volume house builders that I know well who've been buying imported bricks at a premium price simply because they couldn't get enough bricks off the U.K. manufacturers. That's not just bricks, that's all products. I think that market they will struggle to retain. Of course they're gonna fight for it. If you're a distributor and it's your livelihood, you're gonna fight.

I think short term, there will be a bit of disruption, possibly a bit of price disruption, but I still think, the imports volumes will fall fairly sharply. In terms of concrete bricks, look, the number of concrete bricks sold are relatively small. I think, I'm not sure. I think it's probably too early to say are people switching off concrete bricks or not. I think one of the ways that we need to get people off concrete bricks is we need to improve our service levels, as I talked about answering the earlier question, and we also need to keep decarbonizing. I think we're doing the right things, and clay bricks remains a much better looking, much nicer product, to build a house from.

You know, you don't want a house that in 10 years' time has got a concrete brick that's fading. A clay brick is a natural product and looks great for years. Do you wanna pick up the energy one?

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

On the energy, as we said, we expect 2023 to be the peak of our energy costs. We're reasonably comfortable in saying that because we have good forward visibility. We've already bought around 50% of our gas for both 2024 and 2025, we've got good forward prices on that. Also on electricity, as Stephen mentioned, we've got our solar farm coming online in 2024. In 2024, that will be at a higher price. It was originally supposed to be 2025. We effectively, from 2025, have an energy price, electricity price locked in for 15 years, which is extremely competitive. For 2024, we've exercised an option to take the energy, but it's gonna be at a higher price. We have good visibility beyond 2023 that our energy costs will fall.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Priyal.

Priyal Woolf
Equity Analyst, Jefferies

Morning. Priyal Woolf here from Jefferies. I've just got two, the first question is just with regards to M&A. You seem to still say that Clay Bricks will be, you know, a core product in the future, but M&A is obviously still there in your capital allocation priorities. I just wanted to, you know, check what sort of products do you think you're missing? How does that pipeline look? Could we actually see deals coming through this year? Then the second question is just on calcined clay, which you mentioned. Will this just be for internal use only for your concrete products? Or actually could you look to engage with some of the bigger, heavy side producers as well?

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

You wanna take the first one.

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

M&A. Yeah, I mean, look, we continue to kind of keep a pipeline under review. As we've said pretty freely before, there isn't a great deal available in our sector in terms of the current products. We've also kind of had feedback from shareholders that they want us to sort of stay relatively close to our field of expertise. We keep looking. I mean, we looked at a attractive business over the last year or so, but we couldn't agree value aspirations with the seller. Yeah, we're not making any big claims of impending M&A, but we'll keep it under review.

On the capital allocation, as we said, we keep the flexibility for future shareholder returns under review, and whether any M&A comes up or not will be one of the factors in determining whether we should do future returns to shareholders. Calcined clay, clearly we would want to use that as a cement substitute in our own business first, but if we can generate more calcined clay, make more calcined clay than we need, we would certainly look at that as a revenue stream. A bit early to give any guidance on that, but yeah, it could be both.

Priyal Woolf
Equity Analyst, Jefferies

Sorry.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Ami.

Ami Galla
Director, Citi

Ami Galla from Citi. A few from me as well. The first one, if you could give us an update on the London Bricks business, how it went, how it fared in 2022. Is the price premium that the bricks have, versus the ordinary bricks still holding firm, or has that kind of faded a bit on the back of the inflation that we've seen? The second one, I know this is early days, but when we expect energy costs to reduce from 2024 onwards, would you expect a similar trend on brick pricing as well to come through? What is the sort of message of feedback that you're getting from the large house builders there? The third one, just a technical one.

When we kind of look at your new build exposure, can you give us what is the mix between the SME builders versus say, the large volume builders here?

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Okay, let me pick up on those. London Brick, just under a quarter of England's housing stock is made from London Brick. We sell that product to match the originals into the home improvement, effectively the home extension market. It's held up well. Had a very good year last year. I think we're seeing a little bit of short-term destocking as we are with all of our products from the merchants, so that's no surprise. We would expect to see that. We believe the home extension, home improvement market remains strong. Sometimes in a market where people are put off moving because of high house prices, higher borrowing, et cetera, the home extension market can do rather well.

We think that market's probably constrained by the number of builders available to do the work more than anything else at the moment. We're pretty confident on that. Yes, it still commands a price premium as it always has. The energy costs. Look, you know, energy costs longer term probably will come down, but as Ben showed earlier, energy cost for our brick business is around a quarter. By far the biggest cost is labor. I think it's highly unlikely that we're going to be negotiating reductions in the cost of labor. Therefore, when you start to look at what that means to our pricing and it means to our customers, I'm not expecting prices to reduce on the back of energy alone.

In terms of new build, look, our split between the big builders and the SMEs is probably not far off the whole market. Big builders produce roughly half, I think top 10 builders produce about half the houses and our split would be in line with the market. Yeah, we don't sell to the smallest builders, the smallest builders would be through a merchant and obviously the medium-sized ones, we do some direct and some would be through a merchant. We would be in line with the market. Clyde.

Stephen Clyde Lewis
Deputy Head of Research, Peel Hunt

Thank you. Stephen Clyde Lewis at Peel Hunt. I think just one from me, just really around the blocks business. You've not said too much about it today. Focus obviously being on brick prices, costs, and imports. Where are your thoughts in terms of sort of how you can move the block business forward? If you can update us as to, you know, the input issues around, you know, aerated blocks in particular, it'd be helpful to sort of understand that. Again, do you think there's a need to try and increase your capacity in either the aerated or the standard concrete blocks at all in the next couple of years?

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Yeah. Look, I think, I mean, the market, we talk about bricks because there's so much information out there. The ONS does a nice job putting information out there on bricks. The block market very much mirrors the brick market as it's the inner leaf of the same cavity wall that bricks go into, so no great surprise. I think we have an opportunity to invest in our block business, particularly our Thermalite business, where we have the, I think the option to add capacity and increase what we sell. I think we can also make that more efficient. I think we can broaden the range of products. At the moment, where we make aerated concrete, we only sell Thermalite blocks. I think there is the opportunity to add a broader range of products.

If you look at continental Europe, there's a broader range of products. Sort of wall-panels, floor beams in some cases, all sorts of things using lightweight aerated concrete that we have the opportunity to look at. That's something that's very much on our investment agenda, is how do we broaden our range of products using lightweight aerated concrete. One at the back, Kelly.

Rob Chantry
Head of UK Research, Berenberg

Hi. Rob Chantry, just from Berenberg. I just have three questions. Firstly, just on the brick slips business. Just interested in on your thoughts around the kind of growth of modular housing on a 5, 10-year view. Do you think that's a kind of credible substitute? What are your thoughts around the uptake of it and the route to market for it? Secondly, in terms of gas pricing and hedging, could you just update us on, I guess, the policy? You mentioned 50% of the gas bought for 2024, 2025. Is there a structural policy in place to kind of always hedge 50% two years out, or what is their current hedging policy? How much does it evolve?

Thirdly, on electricity, could you just remind us on the kind of net requirement to buy in the market once the solar plant is up and running? How much is left and the dynamics around the PPA and what is the net requirement to buy electricity after that plant's up and running?

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Yeah. Shall I cover modular and you can cover energy, Ben? Look, the modular housing market's got quite a checkered history. It seems to be almost every few months, someone new sets up and someone else fails. I think when there's a sort of vision that houses will come off a production line a bit like cars do. I think that's quite difficult to do, it certainly hasn't taken on in this country, and I think it's quite a way off. I think the area that's of more interest is what components of houses can be built in factories and delivered, then assembled on site. I think for us, rather than look at complete modular housing, how can we build those components?

Our flooring products, for example, are, they're off-site manufactured components that we build in a factory and get craned into position on site. Just answering Clyde's question, I talked about could we make larger format aerated concrete products that again could be made in a factory and delivered on site. I think the modular bit, yeah, look, there's lots of talk about modular. I'm more interested in how can we give solutions to our customers that reduce the amount of skilled labor on site and speed up the build, and I don't think that's just modular.

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

Okay. On the energy procurement, we use a fairly dynamic kind of hedging strategy. We've not got a rigid policy. If you had a policy that we must fix 50% of our energy 2 years in advance, you may have made some very expensive energy purchases last summer or something like that. We look at it dynamically. We do look to build forward purchases in advance. I think we've realized over the last year or 2 that the risk associated with energy is significantly more than it ever has been, and therefore, we probably want to reduce our tolerance to that risk. We will look to buy in advance, but we don't do it on a mechanical basis. We'll do it as and when we see value in the market. We'd also look to layer our positions.

We're not trying to beat the market. We're just trying to give ourselves certainty. Look, over the last sort of six to nine months, as we've been pricing with our pricing discussions with our customers, actually knowing what you're trying to recover is pretty important. We're not trying to beat the market, but we're trying to get some pricing certainty, and I think we've done a reasonable job of that. As I say, and now we're already making significant purchases for 2024, 2025. We've even made some purchases in 2026, and we'll be looking to extend our contract so we can go beyond that. In terms of the electricity from the solar farm, as we said, the solar farm will generate about 70% of the electricity that we need.

We then have a effectively what's known as a sleeving agreement with that, 'cause a solar farm doesn't give you much electricity at 9:00 at night on January. We have a sleeving agreement with a provider who will kind of take the excess electricity in the summer and give us the electricity we need in the winter. The electricity solar farm is 70%. We've also got a commitment to generate 10% of our electricity by 2025 from on-site renewables. Stephen mentioned the solar panels at Desford. We're looking at solar panels at other factories. We're in discussion with someone around a couple of wind turbines. Obviously, on-site renewables are particularly attractive 'cause when you're looking at electricity, 30%-so of the cost of the electricity is the actual cost of getting it to your factory.

If you put a solar panel on your roof or a wind turbine out the back of your stockyard, then you don't pay that extra 30% of grid charges, so we're obviously keen to do that. You'd never be able to do it for all of your electricity 'cause the solar farm that we're building is 150 acres or something. It's massive. You couldn't put one of those next to every factory. We will use on-site renewables as well. You're then looking at about 20% that needs to come from the market. We might forward buy some of that, but you always want some flexibility, as we've talked about, kind of uncertainty around volumes or whatever. We, so we would never look to kind of buy much more than kind of 90% forward anyway.

That then gives us the flexibility if volumes were to vary.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Okay. Alistair.

Speaker 11

It's not actually a question. It'd be remiss for the analysts not to say a very fond thank you for your time at the helm. I've always split the world of CEOs and most other people into those I'd like to share a pint with and those I'd rather not. Stephen falls firmly into the first camp. A CEO since before the IPO, Stephen's been the ideal leader. Totally on top of his business, conservative with a small c, unflappable, and certainly in Stephen's case, a genuinely, really nice bloke. Beer's not Stephen's only tipple. He spent his early career at the posher end of the wine trade.

However, he still manages his to squeeze in the odd marathon and will be running in London next year with his next month, sorry, with his son. I trust he'll emerge from that unscathed, and I'm sure we all wish him the best in his career, and hope you'll continue to have some connection with the building materials industry, and obviously wish Neil all the best when he takes over. Once again, on behalf of all of us, I'm sure, we say thanks and the very best wishes.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Thank you, Alistair. That's kind. Right. I'm afraid, I'm going to ask, do we have any questions from those viewing online? No. Any from your iPad?

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

No, no.

Stephen Harrison
CEO, Forterra

Okay. Thank you again, Alistair. Thank you very much, everyone.

Ben Guyatt
CFO, Forterra

Thanks, Alistair. Check's in the post, so.

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