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Sep 18, 2026, 4:54 PM GMT
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AGM 2021

May 28, 2021

Noel Quinn
Group Chief Executive, HSBC Holdings plc

Ladies and gentlemen, good morning and a warm welcome to the 2021 Annual General Meeting for HSBC Holdings plc. I'm Noel Quinn. This is my second AGM as your Group Chief Executive, but the first where we've been able to speak directly. Can I therefore say how pleased I am to have this opportunity to discuss our bank and its performance with you? Our Group Chairman, Mark Tucker, is joining us by video link today. In accordance with the articles, the directors present have nominated me to act as the Chairman for the purposes of today's meeting. I will now hand over to Mark.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Many thanks, Noel. Good morning in London and good afternoon in Hong Kong. As Noel advised, unfortunately, I am unable to attend today's meeting in person due to the travel restrictions that remain in place. Those same restrictions also mean that most of my fellow directors are also unable to attend today's meeting in person. However, they will all be attending electronically. On Zoom, we have Laura Cha, Henri de Castries, José Meade , Steven Guggenheimer, Irene Lee, [José Antonio Meade Kuribreña], Heidi Miller, Eileen Murray, Jackson Tai, Chair of the Group Risk Committee, Pauline van der Meer Mohr, Chair of the Group Remuneration Committee. At the Queen Elizabeth Hall with Noel are David Nish, our Senior Independent Non-Executive Director and Chair of the Group Audit Committee, Ewen Stevenson, our Group Chief Financial Officer, and Aileen Taylor, our Group Company Secretary and Chief Governance Officer.

Holding our meeting slightly later this year than previous years has made it possible for us to allow some shareholders to attend the Queen Elizabeth Hall in person. A warm welcome to them. The health and safety of our shareholders, our employees, and the communities in which we operate is paramount. There are certain requirements and social distancing measures in place. It is nonetheless an important step in the right direction. I would also like to extend a warm welcome to those shareholders joining us electronically. Through the website, shareholders will be able to watch a live webcast of the proceedings at the Queen Elizabeth Hall, vote on the resolutions, and ask questions using the messaging function. In addition, we have provided a telephone line for shareholders joining electronically to ask questions, and there will be an explanation of how to do so shortly.

This is the very first time we've offered electronic participation at an AGM. We are pleased to give all shareholders the chance to participate to the fullest extent possible. If there is a disruption to any of the electronic elements of the AGM, we will do our very best to fix as soon as possible. Depending on the issue, this may mean that we need to adjourn the meeting briefly to resolve it or adjourn for a more extended period if the issue cannot be resolved today. We greatly appreciate your cooperation and your understanding. Now let me hand across to Noel to open the poll voting.

Noel Quinn
Group Chief Executive, HSBC Holdings plc

Many thanks, Mark. In accordance with the company's articles of association, I give formal notice that I demand a poll on each of the resolutions numbered one to 16, as set out in the 2021 notice of meeting. I would like to propose, with your consent, that this notice be taken as read. Are there any objections? Thank you. Voting is now open. Let me hand over to Aileen Taylor, our Group Company Secretary, who will explain how shareholders can vote.

Aileen Taylor
Group Company Secretary, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you, Noel. Voting on all resolutions set out in the 2021 notice of meeting will remain open until after we have taken your questions. This means that you may cast your votes whenever suits you during the meeting, and you will be informed when the voting is about to close. I will now take you through the process for casting your votes. All shareholders attending in person will have received a voting handset and smart card at registration. The welcome leaflet you received provides simple instructions on how to vote. If you have an issue with your handset, please let an usher know, and they will assist you.

As a reminder, you can cast your votes on each resolution by selecting the number of the resolution and then pressing number 1 if you are in favor, number 2 if you wish to vote against, or number 3 if you wish to withhold your vote. Please note that a vote withheld is not a vote in law and will not be counted in the calculation of the proportion of votes for or against a resolution. If you make a mistake or change your mind, just highlight the resolution you wish to vote on and press the correct button number on the handset before voting closes.

There is also an option available on the menu for you to cast all of your votes in accordance with the Board's recommendations if you would find that more convenient. The process for voting on the website is new for many of us this year.

The voting options available will appear when you click on the voting icon. Select the option that corresponds with how you wish to vote on each resolution, for, against, or withheld. The option will change color, and a confirmation message will appear to show your vote has been cast and received. Please note that there is no submit button. If you make a mistake or wish to change your vote, simply reselect the correct voting option. If you wish to cancel your vote, select the Cancel button. You will be able to change or cancel your vote at any time whilst the poll remains open. Please refer to the instructions on the information page of the website if anything is unclear.

For all shareholders attending today in person or electronically, if you previously returned a proxy form, you may recast your vote now if you wish. Your proxy form will be disregarded. All shareholders will receive due warning when voting is about to close, which will be after we have finished taking your questions. Let me hand over to Mark.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you, Aileen. I will ask Noel to comment on 2020 and the first quarter of 2021 shortly, but let me first provide some reflections of my own. The last 15 months have been unlike any other in living memory. We are clearly still in difficult and challenging times with the news from India and other countries demonstrating that COVID-19 continues to pose a very real and very serious threat. I would like to send my best wishes to all those who have dealt with illness themselves or within their families, and my sincere and heartfelt condolences to all those who have lost loved ones, friends, and colleagues. The surge in cases in India is a reminder that the path ahead remains demanding, and our thoughts are with our colleagues, customers, and communities across the country.

Across the globe, we owe a huge debt of gratitude to the doctors and nurses, social care professionals, emergency workers, and other key workers who continue to fight the virus and maintain vital services. Among them, I include all those HSBC colleagues who have provided our customers with the support they've needed during the crisis and helped to maintain business continuity. They have demonstrated incredible professionalism, dedication, and energy, all the while managing their own, at times, extremely difficult situations at home. On behalf of the board, I would like to express my very deepest thanks to each of them for the exceptional way that they have responded to these most challenging of circumstances. Against this backdrop, HSBC has demonstrated a resilient performance. Noel will expand on this, but I would like to say that we were very pleased to restart the dividend at the earliest opportunity.

In view of our strong capital, funding, and liquidity positions, the board announced in February an interim dividend for 2020 of $0.15 per ordinary share. The global economic outlook remains uncertain, with inflation a concern across financial markets. As a result of vaccination rollouts in many parts of the world, the expected reopening of more sectors of the economy, and the substantial financial support available, we expect global GDP to grow by 5.5% in 2021. Indeed, we expect every economy in which we operate to see a rebound in GDP growth this year led by the U.S. and China. It's also worth noting we've also recently revised up our forecast for the U.K. Generally speaking, there is a significant pent-up demand with large amounts of household savings available to be spent and firms and investors looking for opportunities to deploy accumulated reserves.

We also see that there's clear evidence that world trade is already rebounding strongly. Growth rates are likely to remain erratic, with big variations between and within economies. While some economies are recovering strongly, others are still grappling with renewed spikes in infection levels. Much depend on access to effective vaccines and the pace of their rollout, which will determine how quickly activity can normalize. The scale and mix of policy stimulus is a further factor. There are also structural challenges with interest rates likely to remain low for some time, some industries having had to change permanently to survive the crisis and a possibility that some countries will use the aftermath of the crisis to return to protectionism.

We will need to monitor all these situations very closely. As you would expect, we remain acutely aware of the impact that geopolitics is having on our business and on our clients. The geopolitical environment has been, and will continue to be, challenging for a global bank such as ours. Our approach has been to handle any situations with care, discipline, and an unwavering commitment to the central purpose for which HSBC was founded in 1865, to connect East and West. Over the course of the last 156 years, we have seen many good times and bad, and we are proud of the contribution we have made by working with many countries to help businesses and economies the world over to thrive and to prosper.

Now more than ever, I believe the world needs a global bank like HSBC that brings together future growth opportunities wherever they may be with savers, investors, and firms who want to make the most of them. We can connect an investor in London with a battery manufacturer in Shenzhen, a saver in Singapore with a solar energy producer in Saudi Arabia, an exporter in the Philippines with consumer demand in Mexico. While being fully aware of politics, we need to stay with what we do best, which as our purpose says, is opening up a world of opportunity. Noel will share his perspective on how purpose connects to our strategy in a moment or two. As we look at how we can open up a world of opportunity, we must first recognize that the pandemic is not over.

There is a risk of more new variants emerging, as well as the social and economic challenges that I've already mentioned. Nevertheless, over the second half of the year, we expect the delivery of vaccines to Asia and elsewhere to rise sharply, and this makes it possible for us to think about what the future will look like. There are a number of positive changes underway, and the onus is on governments and businesses to work together to really make the most of them. First, there is a renewed focus on the importance of public health with a collective sense of global responsibility to ensure that developing nations have access to basic services such as clean water, as well as vital medicines, vaccines, and healthcare supplies.

Second, driving the use of digital technologies to keep us all, as individuals and firms, better connected and able to do more with less friction and at ever faster speeds. Third, transforming the way we work permanently with hybrid working models that provide flexibility and enable people to improve their productivity and work-life balance. Critically, changes to the workplace also include redoubling efforts to promote and improve diversity across organizations, an area in which we have not done enough in the past. Fourth, the diversification of global supply chains to make them more productive, more efficient, and ultimately more resilient to potential future shock. Fifth, the commitment to building back better, to use the slogan that has become popular and which I interpret as ensuring the economy works for everyone and has a strong focus on sustainability.

Finally, largely as a cumulative result of the trends I've already mentioned, speeding up the world's journey towards Net Zero. A growing number of countries and organizations setting targets will fundamentally transform business models and drive the innovation required to reduce and eventually eradicate reliance on fossil fuels. Noel will speak to the very important climate resolution being proposed today, and I will also return to it a little later. We strive to play a leading role in supporting individuals, businesses, and communities through all of the changes taking place across society. This is how we can open up a world of opportunities for our customers, for our people, for our communities, and for you, our loyal shareholders. With that, let me hand over to Noel.

Noel Quinn
Group Chief Executive, HSBC Holdings plc

Thanks, Mark. Let me start by saying again how pleased I am to have this opportunity to speak with you directly. I also want to build on Mark's comments about the continuing health crisis. The world as a whole has made great progress in containing COVID-19, but some parts are still facing enormous challenges. This currently includes Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Brazil, Mexico, and of course, India. The ebbs and flows of the pandemic mean it could be somewhere else next. We have around 40,000 colleagues in India, and we are doing what we can to help them and their families. I want to thank them sincerely for everything they are doing to support our customers and maintain service levels. I also want to recognize the stress the pandemic has placed on all of you, our loyal shareholders.

The health and economic crises have placed a large burden on you, too. With that in mind, it was incredibly important for us to restart the dividend, and the interim dividend for 2020 was paid last month. Going forward, we have adopted a new policy designed to provide sustainable dividends, offering good income while giving management the flexibility to reinvest capital to grow the firm over the medium term. Let me turn to our performance. First, and most importantly, our people have provided first-class support to our customers and the communities we serve throughout the world. In 2020, we provided more than $52 billion of wholesale lending support through more than 600 government schemes and moratoria. There was more than $26 billion of additional relief for personal customers around the world.

We also played a vital role in keeping capital flowing, arranging more than $1.9 trillion of loan, debt, and equity financing for our wholesale customers. To put this in some context, in the U.K. alone, we delivered more than GBP 14 billion of COVID-related business lending. That's equivalent to around 17 years' worth of business loans processed in just eight months. While the numbers tell us a lot, they still don't do justice to the efforts and energies that went into delivering them. My colleagues were agile, innovative, and got things done in days and weeks, not months and years. Our rising customer satisfaction scores in 2020 are a testament to them and to their efforts. They did all of this while dealing with many challenges and concerns in their personal lives. Let me also say a heartfelt thank you to all of them.

The economic impact of the pandemic did hit our profitability last year, but we still delivered $8.8 billion of reported pre-tax profits and $12.1 billion of adjusted pre-tax profits. We also finished the year with a strong capital base of 15.9% and increased customer deposits by around $170 billion. This proves two things. This is an incredibly strong and resilient business, particularly in Asia, which delivered $13 billion of adjusted pre-tax profits. It also demonstrates that opportunity exists even in a year of great difficulty. I'm pleased to say this year has got off to a good start. In the first quarter, a good business performance supported by a net release of expected credit losses delivered reported pre-tax profits of $5.8 billion, which is an increase of 79% on last year's first quarter. Adjusted pre-tax profits were up 109% to $6.4 billion.

We also strengthened our lending pipelines across our personal and commercial banking businesses, which bodes well for the future. Amidst the challenges we faced last year, we carried out a major exercise to refresh our core purpose as an organization. We spent a number of months consulting many thousands of colleagues and customers, looking deeply into our history and also imagining the world of the future. We kept coming back to the same themes. HSBC has always focused on helping customers pursue the opportunities around them, whether they are individuals, families, or businesses. Our renewed purpose, opening up a world of opportunity, captures this aim and sets us a challenge. Opportunity never stands still. It changes and it evolves with the world around us.

Our job is to keep adapting with it and to find and capture opportunities with the same spirit of entrepreneurialism and innovation that I feel represents HSBC at its very best. Our purpose applies as much to our shareholders as it does to our customers or our people. We need to open up a world of opportunity for you, too, which means seeking to provide you with a good return on your investment. The best way we can do that is by executing our strategic plans. In February 2020, I announced a series of actions to make HSBC fit for the future. The world changed in 2020, so we took the opportunity to accelerate our plan under four strategic pillars. The first pillar of our plan is to drive growth by focusing on our strengths.

We want to be a global leader in cross-border banking flows, aligned to major trade and capital corridors, and a market leader in wealth management, particularly in Asia. We are seeing strong demand in both areas. In the first quarter, we grew wealth balances in Asia by 18%. We also grew trade financing, finance lending in Asia by around $3 billion. This week, we announced the sale of the domestic mass-market retail business in the U.S. It's a good business, but we lack the necessary scale to compete with domestic competitors. We will continue to have a strong presence in the U.S., principally focused on internationally-oriented wholesale banking. The U.S. is key to our international network and an important contributor to our growth plans.

We will seek to grow that business, and we will also retain the capability to connect international wealth management clients to other markets around the world. The second pillar is to digitize at scale. Our digital agenda presents opportunities for both revenue growth and cost efficiency. We are now increasing the pace of investment. This has already enabled us to integrate our market-leading PayMe app in Hong Kong into merchant checkouts, to launch HSBC Kinetic, a fully digital mobile banking app for SMEs in the U.K., and to roll out our new innovative Global Wallet product for businesses. The third pillar is about energizing HSBC for growth. Since the start of 2020, I've refreshed the top team of the firm. More than three-quarters of my direct senior leadership team have been in post for 15 months or less. I've also reduced senior management numbers by 17%.

Our priority now is to apply what we've learned through the lockdown to improve the way we work. We're moving to a hybrid model wherever possible, giving our people the flexibility to work in a way that suits both them and our customers. We will need less office space as a result and expect to reduce our global office footprint by more than 3.6 million sq ft, or around 20%, by the end of this year. We're also taking action to improve ethnic diversity across the group, although it will take time to build the talent pipeline and improve outcomes to be where we need them to be. The final pillar is the transition to net zero, which is one of our biggest drivers for change. We're already a global leader in sustainability, and we want to stay there as the market expands.

In 2020, we were the biggest underwriter of green, social, sustainability, and sustainability-linked bonds for the second year running, nearly doubling the volume we underwrote in 2019. We also set out an ambitious plan to align our portfolio of financed emissions to net zero by 2050 or sooner. Today, we are tabling a special resolution that represents the next level of detail of our climate plan. It commits us to set, disclose, and implement a sustainability strategy that has at its core a commitment to support our customers on their transitions to net zero carbon emissions. This includes a sector and science-based approach to align our provision of finance to the Paris Agreement goals with short and medium-term targets. We will publish and implement a policy to phase out the financing of coal-fired power and thermal coal mining by 2030 in EU and OECD, and by 2040 globally.

Finally, we will report annually on our progress, starting with our 2021 annual report and accounts. Committing to net zero presents us with a strategic choice. We can choose simply to divest from clients with high carbon emissions. That alone is no guarantee that those emissions won't continue with financial backing from elsewhere. It will not allow for an orderly and inclusive transition. We can choose to partner with our clients and help them to decarbonize by financing their transitions to climate-friendly operations and clean technologies. I passionately believe that we have a responsibility as a leader to drive comprehensive change if we can. As far as I'm concerned, we will always be judged on what we do next. I expect to be held accountable by our stakeholders. I welcome that dialogue.

To this end, let me thank ShareAction and a group of shareholders for the constructive discussions we've had over the past few months. I'm grateful for your support of our special resolution and look forward to demonstrating how we are delivering on the commitments we've made. With COP26 under six months away, now more than ever, the world is looking to the financial sector to step up and play its part. Last month, HSBC became a founding member of the Net-Zero Banking Alliance, a group of 43 banks from 23 countries which will bring collaboration and consistency to collective efforts to reach the Paris Agreement goals.

I'm committed to helping the whole system to embrace the urgency of the low-carbon transition. In conclusion, there is still a lot of work ahead of us, but we carry good momentum into the rest of 2021, and I'm confident we can repay the trust you placed in us. Thank you all for your continued support. With that, let me hand back to Mark.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Noel, thank you. I will now turn to the formal business before us. Can I please remind you that voting is still open, so you can continue to cast your votes. I will not comment on all the resolutions in front of the meeting today, which are fully explained in the notice of the meeting. Let me say a brief word on three of the resolutions. Resolutions 3A to 3K concern the election and re-election of directors. Over the past year, three new independent non-executive directors have joined the board. [José Antonio Meade Kuribreña], Steve Guggenheimer joined the board on the 1st of May 2020, and Eileen Murray joined the board on the 1st of July 2020. José Antonio Meade Kuribreña brings a wealth of experience across finance and corporate strategy, as well as extensive knowledge of global banking and financial services.

Steve has more than 25 years of experience in technology, particularly in relation to digital transformation, artificial intelligence, and cloud computing, all of which are critical to HSBC's present and future success. Aileen is a very accomplished executive with over 40 years of experience in banking and finance. She has extensive knowledge of financial technologies and corporate strategy. We have also announced that Laura Cha, Henri de Castries, and Heidi Miller will all retire at the close of this meeting and will therefore not be seeking re-election today. I am enormously grateful to Laura, Henri, and Heidi for their important and valuable contributions to the board, the committees, and the subsidiary entities in which they have served during their tenure. This means that subject to the election and re-election of directors today, your board will comprise myself as non-executive chair, two executive directors, and eight independent non-executive directors.

Finally, we have also announced that Dame Carolyn Fairbairn and Rachel Duan will be appointed as independent non-executive directors with effect from the 1st of September this year. Their appointments as directors of the company will be subject to election by shareholders at the 2022 AGM and annual re-election thereafter. Resolution 15 is our climate change resolution. As Noel explained, it focuses on the actions we are proposing to take in connection with our ambition to align our provision of finance with a net-zero outcome by 2050, consistent with the goals of the Paris Agreement on climate change. I would like to add my thanks to Noel, to ShareAction, and a group of shareholders for their constructive and extensive dialogue and engagement over a number of months, which allowed us to reach a mutually agreeable way forward.

We remain fully committed to working with all our stakeholders to achieve our shared ambition to build a more sustainable world, and your board recommends you vote in favor of this resolution. Resolution 16 was requisitioned by shareholders on behalf of the Midland Clawback Campaign and is similar to previous resolutions requisitioned at the last two AGMs. Our position on the removal of the state deduction feature has been consistent, that it would constitute a retrospective change that would benefit a particular group of members and would be unfair to other HSBC pension scheme members. Your board recommends that shareholders vote against this resolution. The full reasoning is set out in Appendix five of the notice of meeting. Before moving on to Q&A, let me hand over to Aileen, who will explain the process for asking questions.

Aileen Taylor
Group Company Secretary, HSBC Holdings plc

Many thanks, Mark. Let me now explain the process for asking questions. We will be taking questions on any of the 16 resolutions from shareholders attending in person and electronically through the website and from the telephone line. Should you have a question that is specific to an individual customer relationship, please contact our dedicated customer support teams through established communication channels. Please refer to the relevant HSBC website for contact details. For those of you in the audience here at Queen Elizabeth Hall, if you have a question on any of the resolutions, please raise your yellow voting card when directed and wait for a microphone to be brought to you. For shareholders participating electronically, if you would like to ask a question through the website, please select the messaging icon. Type your message within the chat box at the bottom of the messaging screen.

Once finished, click the send button to submit your question.

If you would like to ask a question through the telephone line, you will first need to register. The registration instructions are on the information page of the website. Once registered, you will receive an email with the telephone conference details. Once on the telephone line, to ask a question, you will need to press star one. This will place you in a queue to ask a question to the meeting. If you wish to cancel your request to ask a question, press star two. When asking a question by telephone, if you are also connecting via the online webcast at the same time, please mute the audio of the online webcast so that there is no interference when speaking.

Before asking your question, whether in person or through the telephone line, can I ask you please to state your name and confirm that you are a shareholder or give the name of the shareholder you represent? Every effort will be made to give shareholders the opportunity to ask a question if they wish to do so. In the interest of allowing as many shareholders as possible to participate, I would be grateful if you could please limit yourselves to one question relating to the business of the meeting and keep it brief and to the point. Questions submitted to the AGM have been responded to directly or will be addressed today at the meeting. Let me hand back to Mark.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Aileen, thank you very much. Again, thank you to our many shareholders who submitted their questions in advance of the meeting. What I'll do is start by taking a couple of pre-submitted questions before inviting shareholders to ask other questions. Can we move to the next.

Speaker 9

We have a small group of questions regarding the subject of dividends. Two of them are from the website, and one is pre-submitted from Gerard Proctor. Forgetting the pandemic and the cancellation of last year's dividend, the bank has not increased its dividend since 2015. Whilst they maintain the dividend has been sustainable, it has not taken into account the effect of inflation, which in real terms, spending power has decreased. The financial press in recent past years has predicted good results for the bank and an improved dividend. When the results are produced, there has always been something to depress the figures, leaving the dividend rate unchanged. A good example of this is the figures for 2020, whereby the bank managed to reduce profits by including an amount for software intangibles.

The press were predicting a dividend of $0.21 per share, we have ended up with just $0.15 per share. Why is this action so consistent? Two related questions on dividends from the website. From [Robert Gerald Muriel Esquire], you described the recent dividend as interim, not quarterly. Are you planning a cut in dividend too this year? From Mr. Sunil Kumar Pal, what is your new dividend policy?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for those questions. I think all important questions. Fundamentally, we do understand the importance of dividends to our investors. Not only that, we're clearly very focused on improving total shareholder returns, including dividends, as we move forward. Let me just take a step back in context. In response to a request from the Bank of England via the Prudential Regulation Authority, our lead regulator, and along with all other U.K. banks, we canceled the fourth interim dividend for 2019 and announced that until the end of 2020, we would make no quarterly or interim dividends. This was done in order to conserve capital to support the economies in which we lend and operate. The PRA, the Prudential Regulation Authority, also placed a cap on the amount of dividend we were able to pay out in respect of 2020.

As Noel said earlier, we were pleased to be able to reinstate the interim dividend for the fourth quarter of 2020, and as has been asked in this question, at $0.15, which was paid in April 2021. The $0.15 per share payment was just inside the dividend cap placed by the PRA. I think it's important to note, it represented almost 80% of our earnings per share. We're also asking in those questions, what was the policy going forward? Going forward, we've outlined a new dividend policy designed to provide sustainable dividends, which will give good income to shareholders and allow management the flexibility to reinvest capital to grow the firm over the medium term. Again, thank you for that question, and can we move to the next pre-submitted question?

Speaker 9

A question from shareholder Lisa Warren on behalf of ShareAction. As recent global assessments demonstrate, human activity has led to an unprecedented loss of natural habitats and a catastrophic decline in wildlife populations over the last few decades. The ongoing destruction of nature threatens the continued functioning of natural systems that underpin all economic activity and the stability and resilience of our society. Yet despite the significant risks that the loss of biodiversity poses to businesses and investment portfolios, it has so far remained a marginal consideration for the asset management industry at large. Global Witness's Money to Burn report revealed that between 2013 and 2019, HSBC provided $3.73 billion of finance and GBP 3.36 million of investment to the six largest agribusiness companies. The Brazilian meat company JBS is included in these figures.

According to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, despite providing a negative assessment of JBS and acknowledging the company as a laggard on deforestation, HSBC still recommended JBS as a buy-worthy stock. Given HSBC's support for responsible investment and the Finance for Biodiversity Pledge, will the group commit to disclose more information on its plan as a bank and as an asset manager to address the systemic risk posed by biodiversity loss, the tackling of which will be critical to effective climate action, and make biodiversity one of its engagement priorities for the 2022 AGM season, and publish sectoral expectations on the management of biodiversity-related risks and impacts for its investee companies and corporate clients in high-impact sectors, including banking?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for that very comprehensive question on biodiversity. I think we clearly do recognize the importance of protecting, preserving, and restoring nature, and this is in line with our net zero ambition. However, I think, as is known, the systemic and systematic assessment of impacts on biodiversity is a relatively new field for investors and will require work over a number of years. I think it's important to note, however, that HSBC Asset Management is amongst the leaders in this area, and we are a signatory to the Finance Pledge for Biodiversity . To, again, get into the specifics of your question, we have committed to increase engagement, measurement, and disclosure. In order to meet this commitment, we've also taken a number of actions to engage internally and externally. Let me give you a few examples of those.

In 2020, we launched HSBC Pollination Climate Asset Management. This was done to establish natural capital as an asset class with a corresponding market value. Secondly, as an example, we were the first private investor in the Reef Credit Scheme, which incentivizes farmers and graziers in Queensland, Australia for actions that they take to reduce their impact on the Great Barrier Reef. We also recently announced a climate solutions partnership with the World Wildlife Fund and the World Resources Institute, which aims to scale solutions that protect and restore nature. This is supported by $100 million over five years of philanthropic funding by HSBC. In addition to that, and at group level more broadly, just to reassure you that we do regularly assess our clients for commitment to sustainable business practices and address nature loss in our sustainability risk and transition policies.

Again, thank you for the question. Let me ask for a question from the room, and as was said earlier by Aileen, please can you raise your yellow card if you wish to ask a question.

Noel Quinn
Group Chief Executive, HSBC Holdings plc

Can we please take a question, number one, please.

Speaker 8

Thank you. Good morning to everyone here. My name is [Jessica Hall], and I'm proxy for Helen Collinson. In developing countries, COVID is leaving a trail of devastation which could put 150 million people in extreme poverty. When the crisis began, 64 countries were spending more on external debt payments than on healthcare. The World Bank has since said that throughout history, there have been occasions where there needs to be deep debt reduction, and this clearly is one of those occasions. In recognition that countries need to deploy their resources to fight the pandemic, G20 governments have provided debt suspension and longer-term restructuring through the Common Framework. Private creditors like HSBC have yet to follow suit.

While developing countries struggle to fund healthcare workers and buy vaccines, HSBC profits so far during the pandemic have been over $11 billion, enough to vaccinate the entire African continent against COVID-19. What will HSBC do to cancel the debts for low- and middle-income countries to help them respond and recover from the pandemic?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Again, once again, thank you for coming today, and thank you for your question. In the whole field of emerging market debt, we take developments in that and in sovereign debt markets overall very seriously. We will continue to play a part in industry dialogue with governments. Having said that, let me be clear that HSBC has not received any request from a country to cancel its debts. We've also engaged with governments we directly lend to that have access to the G20 Debt Service Suspension Initiative. To date, again, to be clear, none have indicated an intention to request a debt suspension from HSBC. Let me reassure you, we take this enormously seriously, and we will continue to do so. Can I ask for another question from the room, please? Again, if you could raise your card.

Noel Quinn
Group Chief Executive, HSBC Holdings plc

Mark, we have no additional questions from the room at this stage. Would anyone like to ask a question? No, Mark. I think we can move on to one of the pre-submitted or a telephone call.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Okay. No, thank you. Let me ask for a question from a telephone, please.

Operator

Thank you. The next question comes from [David Haslam]. Please proceed with your question. Hello, David. Is your line on mute? Please proceed with your question. As there is no response, I will proceed to the next question.

David Haslam
Shareholder, Private Investor

Hello, can you hear me?

Operator

Oh, hello, David. We can hear you now. Thank you.

David Haslam
Shareholder, Private Investor

Right. Thank you very much. Yes. I'm an ordinary shareholder, [David Haslam], Reverend David Haslam. The first time I attended the AGM of Midland Bank, HSBC's predecessor in 1974, was to ask about loans the bank was involved in with others to elements of South Africa's apartheid government. Today, I'm concerned the bank is involved in another country, Israel, whose political and economic system is increasingly being described as apartheid, including by its own leading human rights organization. According to some of the annual reports, the bank has a correspondent relationship with the Bank of Israel and also made a loan of $10 million to the State of Israel in 2014 for a 10-year period. It's also the case that in 2018, in response to a War on Want report, the bank announced it had ended its loans to the Israeli weapons company, Elbit Systems, which was a plus.

That report, however, also listed HSBC loans to Caterpillar, whose equipment has frequently been used for the demolition of Palestinian homes and farms and the construction of illegal Israeli settlements in its occupation of Palestinian land. I might say the Methodist Church recently divested from Caterpillar for these reasons. Does HSBC still have loans outstanding to Caterpillar or any other companies on the War on Want list, including also the 112 companies recently listed by the United Nations as linked to those settlements? In the light of deepening concerns about Palestinian oppression and the reactive violence which comes from that, will the bank end any loans to the State of Israel, as it did with South Africa in 1976, and to Caterpillar, and review its policy in relation to any company operating in Israel-Palestine to ensure that that company is not supporting the illegal occupation in any way?

Thank you.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Reverend David, thank you very much for your question. We have discussed before, again, we know that we do not take positions on political issues such as the Israel-Palestine question. Let me give you more than that. In that, while we're unable to confirm details of any individual client relationships, for many years we've had a strict defense equipment policy. This policy means that we do not finance any companies which solely or primarily manufacture or sell defense equipment, and we do not provide financial services for transactions involving the purchase of defense equipment. In addition, HSBC Global Asset Management also excludes any security in its active, systematic, and index portfolios that have been issued by corporations considered to be involved in the development, production, use, sale, or distribution of weapons banned by international convention.

HSBC's name often appears on company share registered for a number of reasons, including where we act as a custodian for our clients and where we are hedging or facilitating client transactions rather than as a principal investor. HSBC Asset Management, as an asset manager, makes investments in line with its responsibilities to clients and clearly in accordance with all applicable laws. Thank you again for your question. May I ask for a question from the webcast?

Speaker 9

Two linked questions on the subject of share price from Robert Gerald Muriel Esquire: When you joined, the share price was GBP 7. Now it is GBP 4.50. What chance, in spite of difficulties, of its return to GBP 7, let alone the GBP 10 of a few years ago? From Mr. Sunil Kumar Pal: Bought shares at GBP 824.75 on 9th of January 2002. Today, it is GBP 4.60. Talented members of the board have come and gone with first world-class salary, but share price has remained in the third world. Do you have any projection of share price with this highly talented board?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for those questions again, and thank you for your compliment. I agree that there is a highly talented board. In terms of the share price, clearly I am not allowed to make forecasts, and I won't. All I can say is that clearly there have been both external and internal factors that have affected our share price, and I don't intend to make excuses. We've recovered from a COVID-19 low of around GBP 2.80, currently around GBP 4.60. Again, the COVID impacts both in revenue and in credit were significant, and the dividend cut was also very material. This affected us as it did all U.K. banks and clearly many global organizations.

What we tried to do, I think what the board has tried to set out, is a policy designed to provide sustainable dividends going forward, to look to pay progressive dividends, to look at how we can clearly continue to improve performance. As Noel indicated in his comments a few moments ago, the first quarter has been a good start to the year. Again, we have many elements of momentum and process in place that we believe that we can continue to deliver and perform. We intend to look to a target payout ratio of somewhere between 40% and 55% of earnings, with some flexibility to adjust. I can promise you, we focus on this all the time and ensuring that we try to build the company, develop the company to its next stage.

Focusing on that will ultimately bring about the change in share price that we stand absolutely side by side with you to ensure that we deliver. Thank you for that. May I ask for another question from the webcast, please?

Speaker 9

A pre-submitted question from Adam McGibbon on behalf of Market Forces. In 2015, HSBC committed to not support the globally controversial Adani Carmichael coal project in Australia. However, HSBC was made aware almost one year ago that it is indirectly providing support for the mine and rail project by investing in Adani Ports, which owns critical parts of the project's coal transportation services. Since HSBC was made aware of this exposure to the Carmichael coal mine, at least 10 major investors, including State Street, PIMCO, and five major Swedish financiers, have either divested from or banned investment in Adani Ports due to the reputational risks associated with the controversial company.

Why is HSBC willing to continue to expose its shareholders to the risk of associating with the globally shunned project, facilitating the expansion of a massive greenfield thermal coal mine and opening up one of the world's largest untapped thermal coal basins? When will HSBC cut all ties to Adani companies that are fueling the climate crisis?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Again, thank you for your question. As Noel set out, we intend to continue our leadership on the climate debate. Let me be clear. Under our energy policy, HSBC does not finance the development of new thermal coal mines or serve new customers dependent on thermal coal mining. We do not provide financing for new coal-fired power plants anywhere in the world, and we've not provided any project finance for any new coal-fired power plants anywhere since April 2018. We said in 2014, and we made clear that we had declined to finance the Carmichael mine project in Queensland, Australia, and our position on this has not changed. HSBC does not support the Carmichael mine project. HSBC is not directly invested in Adani Port. Again, let me be completely open.

Adani Port is included in an index that HSBC Global Asset Management tracks as part of a reference benchmark, and we have a fiduciary duty to investors in those funds. That is the only connection. Thank you again for your question. Let me go once again to ask a question from the telephone, please.

Operator

Thank you. The next question comes from Jean Blaylock.

Jean Blaylock
Shareholder, Private Investor

Good day. My name is Jean Blaylock. I'm a proxy for Mr. Sam Lund-Harket. In March 2020, HSBC made GBP 25 million available to support the international medical response to COVID-19. HSBC explained that this was because medical services in dozens of countries are under enormous pressure, entire economies are in stasis, and hundreds of millions of lives have been upended. This is a crisis that requires a response from every part of society. However, HSBC and other banks are yet to offer debt relief, which could free up vital public finances in the Global South to deal with this crisis. Voluntary efforts to secure debt relief from private creditors since March 2020 have failed. This includes the G20's Common Framework for Debt Treatments, which is unproven and where it is unclear if private creditors will participate.

The U.K. government has said consistently it expects private creditors to voluntarily participate in the Common Framework. What are HSBC's plans to participate in the Common Framework and other debt relief efforts? Thank you.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for your question. Similar to the answer I gave earlier. We take developments in sovereign debt markets enormously seriously, and we'll continue to dialogue with governments on the emerging market and other debt. We've not received a request from any country to cancel debts. We've engaged with governments directly. Of the 73 countries, I think eligible, we undertake business in fewer than 10 in the G20 scheme and have a physical presence in only two. I think this is a commitment that we will continue to make in ensuring that we do play a part in dialogue. I think it's also worth noting that the amount of donations that we have given to many countries, individual donations right across the board in hundreds of millions of dollars in total donations.

In the last year, and I think recently, that includes giving to places like India to support them in their COVID relief efforts. We gave over $18 million. We provided with Salesforce.com, three planes coming in of oxygen and other equipment. We've set up vaccination centers. I think this type of response, I think you've seen from HSBC across the world, I think we've done a huge amount in this area to play our part as a good corporate citizen and as somebody who I think tries to look after all of the countries, all of the communities in which we work and we operate. As I say, I think the overall charitable contributions giving programs in 2020 was $113 across a whole range of different areas. I think, as I say, I think we play our part.

We will continue to play our part. This is ongoing. It's not a one-off. We take our commitments to the countries and the communities in which we operate in enormously seriously. Thank you again for your question. Let me ask for a question from the webcast, please.

Speaker 9

A double question from Ms. Lily Thompson asking on behalf of Friends of the Earth, Mozambique. This question regards the Coral FLNG project in Mozambique. While Coral FLNG is an offshore operation, the project utilizes Total's onshore Afungi LNG park for its support facilities, as is written clearly in Coral FLNG's environmental impact assessment. The Afungi LNG park has been reported by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, many mainstream international media outlets, and grassroots community-based organizations like ours to have caused mass displacement of thousands of people who've lost their entire livelihoods. Does HSBC do any on-the-ground monitoring of the impacts of Coral LNG on the local communities and environment? If so, who has been contracted to do this? When was the last assessment done? Can you undertake to make this public?

Part two, the EIA for Coral FLNG shows that the greenhouse gas emissions of this project will be far more than 1.5% and cannot be mitigated. In fact, just the construction of one LNG train will increase the greenhouse gas emissions for Mozambique by 10% by 2022. Since HSBC says it complies with the Paris Agreement, please could you explain why HSBC is investing in a project with this climate impact, and will you reassess following the announcement of the legal review of UK Export Finance's agreement to finance Mozambique LNG?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for your question. We can't comment on individual customers, but let me give you and comment on information which is in the public domain and which confirms that Coral Sul FLNG is being developed offshore with minimal onshore facilities. The facilities are not operated out of Afungi, but they're operated out of Pemba, which is 150 miles away. Floating LNG vessels have advanced technical requirements, and there are only a limited number of these locations globally that have the capability to construct such a vessel. As such, the Coral Sul FLNG vessel is being constructed outside of Mozambique. What we understand also is that once operational, the project will require additional labor and is expected to employ approximately 800 Mozambicans with a range of skill levels. The project will also, again, we understand, support wider economic development.

There'll be tax royalties, a range of local enterprise and skilled development programs, as well as the construction of schools amongst some of the other social initiatives being spoken about. We understand that there are additional onshore LNG projects being considered in the Afungi area. HSBC, to be clear, has no role in these projects, but we do understand they're likely to result in more employment opportunities for local Mozambicans. Again, thank you for your question. Let me ask for another question from the webcast.

Speaker 9

A pre-submitted question from Sam Hayward on behalf of ShareAction. Given the bank's recent commitment to align its financing with a 1.5C scenario and to set targets for its oil and gas portfolio, I would like to know whether HSBC is planning to take part in the financing of the East African Crude Oil Pipeline, EACOP. The EACOP is a planned 1,445 km pipeline that stretches from Uganda to Tanzania, which, if built, will have disastrous consequences for local communities, wildlife, and the planet. If completed, it could transport over 1.7 billion barrels of recoverable oil. The IEA's recent Net Zero by 2050 report clearly states that there is no need for new oil or gas fields, and that sharp declines in the production and consumption of oil must occur in the next decade to stay within 1.5 degrees of warming.

If HSBC is serious about keeping within 1.5 degrees of warming, it should recognize the implications of the IEA's recent report and act on these. HSBC's peers, Barclays, BNP Paribas, and Credit Suisse, have all stated they will not provide finance to build the pipeline. Will the bank commit to restricting finance to the EACOP, both direct and indirect, and to make its decision known publicly?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for your question. Similarly to the last question, our duty of client confidentiality prevents us from discussing specific companies or projects, even to confirm or deny involvement. Having said that, let me reassure you that we look at all projects through a climate lens, and we seek to do business with customers who share our ambition, our significant ambition on climate change. Our aim is to work in partnership with them on decarbonization plans aligned to the Paris Agreement goals. We believe, and I think Noel set this out very eloquently earlier, that it's better to work with our customers and provide financial solutions to help achieve low carbon emissions. Again, we've said that we'll support this financially with an ambition to provide up to $1 trillion in finance by 2030 to support our customers in all sectors to progressively decarbonize.

Thank you for the question, and let me move to the next question from the telephone.

Operator

Thank you. The next question comes from [Catherine Odell].

Speaker 8

Thank you.

The world is facing the worst economic crisis in nearly a century. Several banks and private creditors have acknowledged that the immediate priority should be to respond to the health emergency. Without debt relief, the developing countries' options are limited. We know some private creditors want to act on debt, yet the reality of the market means they are constrained. We understand the challenge HSBC faces in acting alone. A legislative approach would create a level playing field and mean all U.K.-based private creditors have the same obligations. A global pandemic means bold global solutions are required. The debt crisis in developing nations threatens to cripple their response to COVID-19 and any hopes of building back better. When will HSBC publicly or privately support calls for U.K. government to consider legislation, which would mean all private creditors participate in debt relief and restructuring initiatives?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Again, thank you for your question. The whole area of sovereign debt markets and debt relief, as I've mentioned on two of the questions we've had today, are key and again, taken seriously by us. We'll continue to play an active part in industry dialogue with governments. Going back to what I've said, HSBC has not received a request from countries to cancel its debts. We haven't to date had any indication of requests for debt suspension, but I can promise you that we will continue to play our part in industry dialogue with governments as this develops. Thank you for your question. Let me move to asking another question from the webcast.

Speaker 9

A question from Stephanie Cheung. I'm a shareholder in Hong Kong since 2005. I'm happy that I can vote real-time at the hybrid meeting this time. Will the bank consider holding the informal shareholder meeting in Hong Kong again? Thanks.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you very much, and good of you to stay up this late. The board decided to postpone this year's ISM due to current restrictions on travel and general health and safety concerns. I think we, together with senior executives, including Peter Wong, Asia Pacific CEO, and [Noel cha], chairman, are committed to engaging with our shareholders, and we're delighted that you and we hope many others have joined the AGM today. I know I can speak for both Noel and myself that we look forward to getting out to Hong Kong as soon as we can, as soon as travel restrictions allow us to do so. Our intent is to have an ISM, whether it's this year or in the foreseeable future. Certainly, we want to come out there and see you and see our shareholders in person as soon as we're able to do that.

Thank you for your question and thank you for your support. May I ask the next question from the webcast, please?

Speaker 9

A question from Mr. Steven Jeffrey Hall. Last year, the bank declared a dividend of approximately $0.50 per share. This equates to $10 billion in cash in your accounts. As the dividend was canceled via a Bank of England directive, what is the bank going to do with these funds? My suggestions for some of these funds are, one, an above-inflation pay rise for your loyal staff for the first time in decades. Two, enhance this year's dividend to your loyal shareholders. Three, enhance pensions to your loyal past employees and pensioners, and cancel clawback state deduction for any of your previous pension schemes.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Again, thank you for the question, and thank you for your input and advice as to use of the funds. Again, we will continue to look at the best use of funds. When we put together clearly the dividend policy, from the Bank of England, again, the guidance from the Bank of England, the request from the Bank of England was not to pay out dividends for 2019 and the first three quarters of 2020. Again, the reason for this was that we could operate and lend in an environment, in a very difficult, a very challenging economic environment, as you know well. I think Noel gave one statistic, which I think is an important statistic, that during 2020, we wrote in one year what we'd written in 17 previous years cumulatively in business loans.

That gives you a sense of the level of support that we had to do, and that capital that was left was clearly reorientated towards the use of into supporting the economy, supporting the lending, supporting our customers, and supporting the countries we operated in during the difficult time. Certainly, we'll take away and think about your question, but I can promise you that it was put to very good use as we went through and as the request of our regulator and the Bank of England. Let me ask for another question from the webcast.

Speaker 9

We've received several questions from shareholders on the Midland clawback resolution. In particular, the question was asked, why did 50,000 pensioners not hear about clawback until the '90s? Why has the board recommended that they do not meet with the full APPG around a table?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for this. Thank you for those that are attending. We understand that this is a very important issue, and many of the people involved devoted significant proportions of their working lives to Midland Bank and to HSBC, and that is greatly appreciated and valued. The position, as I said earlier in my opening, the position on the removal of the state deduction feature has been clear and consistent. It would constitute a retrospective change that would particularly benefit a particular group of members and will be unfair to other HSBC UK pension scheme members. I think, as you know, we're currently supporting over 50,000 retirees in the U.K., and we're fully committed to all our pension schemes. The state deduction feature was communicated clearly to members and applied as intended and in accordance with the trust deed and rules.

It was referenced in member guides since it was introduced in 1975. HSBC, again, in terms of communication, let me be clear that we continue to be in correspondence with the campaign group, and we're happy to do so, or those acting on its behalf, and we'll continue to engage and respond to their queries. We'll also, in specific answer to your question, we'll continue to engage with the All-Party Parliamentary Group on state deduction, and any other authority to request information. I understand a meeting was set up in the last quarter of last year, and I think there's still process going on now to reset that meeting. Again, we're happy to have that meeting. Let me ask for a question from the webcast, please.

Speaker 9

A question from Mr. Choi Yu Luk. What concrete measures is the bank taking to close or curtail the business in the USA and utilize the opportunity arising from the rapid development of China, particularly the Greater Bay Area Development?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for your question. Again, as Noel set out, we've announced the sale of the domestic mass-market retail business in the U.K. I'm sorry, the U.S. Apologies, not the U.K. Let me be very clear, not the U.K., the U.S. The U.S. remains a very important geography for us, and we'll continue to have a strong presence in the U.S., mainly focused on wholesale banking and also some of the wealth management clients, the global wealth management clients. When you look at the business, again, cross-border business is really HSBC's bread and butter. Of the 25 cross-border trade investment corridors we've identified, 17 are Asia linked and 12 have at least one leg in China. A dual runway for growing mainland China business, servicing international clients inbound China business, and supporting domestic mainland customers' outbound business is significant and important to us.

You mentioned the Greater Bay Area. I think the opportunities in China, the growth opportunities continue to remain significant and immense. We're actively participating in the opening of China's financial markets in the BRI initiative, in the development of Greater Bay, which we're very excited about. The internationalization of the renminbi. Additionally, the opportunities that are coming out of the growth of green finance, where we are a market leader, a world market leader today, where this is a material and significant issue for China and where we are supporting China in that transition. I think we are, again, deeply committed to the U.S. and building our business there and deeply committed to China and continuing to look at growth and opportunities there. Thank you for your question. Let me ask for another question from the webcast.

Speaker 9

A question from shareholder Adam McGibbon on behalf of Market Forces. In a response to shareholders last year, HSBC noted that a proportion of HSBC Global Asset Management's funds, including index funds and ETFs, which replicate the components of an index, include coal companies. Research by Market Forces has shown that HSBC holds stakes in coal companies that together plan 73 new coal plants, 99 GW, emitting 15 billion tons of CO2 over their lifetimes. This is the equivalent of 32 years of the U.K.'s current emissions. The International Energy Agency has recently noted that there should be no more investments in coal projects, and the UN has called for all new coal projects to be canceled.

Further analysis by the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air demonstrated that these 73 new coal plants, when operational, will cause almost 19,000 air pollution-related deaths per year and lead to 29,000 emergency room visits due to asthma, 25,000 premature births, and 14 million days of work absence per year. This is a staggering amount of human suffering. HSBC offers these investment services to its clients and claims it has no choice but to offer them. The bank has chosen to exclude other types of investments from its asset management services, such as certain types of weapons, but has chosen to continue investing in coal. HSBC's coal policy is incomplete if it doesn't cover the bank's entire business. When will HSBC extend its coal exit policy to cover its asset management arm?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for your question on coal. I think worth just clarifying up front that HSBC does not hold ownership stake in any of these companies. I can confirm that we don't hold ownership stakes in these companies. HSBC Global Asset Management does not invest either on behalf of its clients or on its own account directly in projects for coal-fired power plants, coal mining, offshore gas or gold projects, the Arctic or oil sands projects. As I said earlier, a proportion of our asset management business funds, such as index funds and ETFs, do track the components of indices that may include coal companies, especially in emerging markets. This is industry standard practice. If the companies in question are included in these indices we track, we have a fiduciary duty to invest our clients' money on their behalf.

Low carbon indices are available, and we do promote these, but are currently in less demand from clients. Clearly over time, this will change. Let me end by saying HSBC Global Asset Management is committed to responsible investment. We were one of the primary signatories to the Principles for Responsible Investment. We're committed, I think as you know, to engaging with companies that it invests in directly prioritizing high carbon sectors to ensure that governance targets and disclosure of climate risk is better disclosed and better governance all around. Again, thank you for your question. Let me ask for a question from the webcast.

Speaker 9

A question from Roland Bosch. Dear Mark, you mentioned in your introduction today that HSBC has not done enough in the past on the topic of diversity. What concrete measures and targets have been set to improve the gender balance across different levels of the organization, including the Group Executive Committee? Will the bank set targets beyond gender diversity for other diversity characteristics, e.g., racial and ethnic diversity?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Yes. Thank you. It was an important point and a deliberate point, clearly, in my opening comments. I can assure you, again, we had a board meeting yesterday where this was discussed, there's, again, unanimous and passionate belief in the board in taking again seriously the whole element of diversity, the benefits of diversity. The board is committed to increasing diversity at all levels of the organization. This is, again, to reflect and truly reflect the markets and societies we serve. If we look at the end of 2020, we've met our target on gender diversity with 35% female representation on the board, we've updated this target to be 40% by the end of 2023. On that element, again, we're taking this seriously. In 2018, we committed to reach 30% women in senior leadership roles in 2020, we achieved 30.3%.

We've set ourselves a target to achieve 35% women in senior leadership roles by 2025. We are committed to looking right across the diversity landscape. As I say, believing that looking at diversity across the wide organization and believing fundamentally that this was a critical component of our future success. The board will continue to do this with a key priority of the Nomination Committee in 2021 to enhance the Group diversity, talent, and bench strength for key executive positions. Thank you for a very relevant and important question. Let me ask for questions from the webcast.

Speaker 9

A question from Julie Hoey. HSBC is one of the largest financiers to Saudi Aramco. Only since 2018, the bank has provided $3.9 billion to the company. Saudi Aramco operates almost exclusively in carbon-emitting businesses, and reported by Bloomberg, doesn't account for its emissions properly. Furthermore, its main owner, the Saudi government, has a terrible human rights record. Why does HSBC keep being involved with a company like this, running a huge reputation risk which could put the value of our shares at risk?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Again, thank you for your question. We do not comment on individual customers. As I said, client confidentiality means that we won't comment on that. Let me give you, again, a couple of points. We've served customers for over 156 years in many markets. Today we operate in many parts of the world where we believe we have an important obligation to remain engaged. Our experience over that 156 years tells us that we believe we can do more good for customers and wider communities we serve by remaining engaged in those countries and operating to global standards. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, by the end of 2021, we plan to provide further detail on our strategy to align our financing to the Paris Agreement.

This will include an assessment of how our financing for oil and gas, power and utility sector align to net-zero decarbonization pathways. We'll set short- and medium-term targets that are consistent with net-zero outcomes by 2050. We seek to do business with customers who share our ambition on climate change and to work in partnership with them on decarbonization plans. Again, we're happy to support and commit to them. Again, enable them to transition to lower carbon business models. Let me just repeat again something that Noel said earlier. That we can simply choose to divest from clients with higher carbon emissions. That alone is no guarantee that those emissions won't continue with financial backing from elsewhere, and it will not allow for an orderly and inclusive transition.

We can choose to partner with our clients to help them decarbonize by financing their transitions to climate-friendly operations and clean technologies. I think we all believe at HSBC, and we passionately believe that we have a responsibility as a leader to drive comprehensive change if and when we can. Thank you for that question. I understand that there is another question from the room. Please, can you raise your card and ask the question in the Queen Elizabeth Hall?

Noel Quinn
Group Chief Executive, HSBC Holdings plc

Any more questions from the room? If you could raise your yellow card, please, if there are. No more questions? No, Mark, we're good. No more questions in the room.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

No, thank you. Any questions from the webcast?

Speaker 9

A question from Ernst-Jan Kuiper asking on behalf of the Stop EACOP Coalition. The East African Crude Oil Pipeline is a proposed 898-mile heated pipeline through Uganda and Tanzania. Construction of the pipeline threatens to enable the opening up of critical ecosystems, including Murchison Falls National Park, to oil extraction. It will cause large-scale displacement of communities and pose grave risks to protected environments, water sources, and wetlands in both countries. In addition to releasing massive amounts of carbon, the net zero pathway announced last week by the IEA confirms that new fossil fuel projects like this are incompatible with keeping global heating at or below 1.5 degrees. We'd like to ask HSBC, can the bank commit to respond formally to the open letter, and can the bank confirm whether or not it plans to finance the East African Crude Oil Pipeline?

Last month saw the launch of the Net Zero Banking Alliance, where 45 banks, including HSBC, pledged to align their lending and investments portfolios with net zero emissions by 2050. Last week, the IEA released its new Net Zero by 2050 report, which models what actions need to be taken across the economy to reach the Net Zero by 2050 goal. One of the key conclusions of the IEA's report is that there is no need for new fossil fuels in a Net Zero by 2050 scenario. A logical conclusion in line with the IEA is therefore that every Net Zero by 2050 pledge is accompanied by a pledge to stop the exploration and development of new fossil fuels globally.

Therefore, I would like to ask HSBC, can the bank confirm that it acknowledges and adopts the most important conclusion of the latest IEA report, which in HSBC's case means that it will no longer provide any financing for new fossil fuel projects and no financing for companies expanding fossil fuel extraction?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Again, thank you. Thank you for your question. I can't comment, as I've said before, given our duty of client confidentiality. Talking about specific companies or projects, the confidentiality prevents us from doing so. Let me give you another sense of, again, how we think about this and how we look at all projects that we do from a climate lens. We look to do business with customers who share our ambition on climate change and the intent, again, to work in partnership with them on decarbonization plans. All of these align to the Paris Agreement goals. Again, we believe it's better to work with customers, as I've just said, providing solutions to help achieve lower carbon emissions through the transition. The IEA report, again, an excellent report, of which we are aligned with.

Again, we've said that we'll publish, by the end of 2021, a plan to phase out the financing of all coal-fired and thermal coal mining by 2030 in markets in the European Union and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, and by 2040 in other markets. This is entirely consistent with the IEA report. Again, we believe the report, again, is a strong report. We are doing all things that we can to maintain consistency with that report. Thank you for the question. Let me ask for another question from the webcast.

Speaker 9

A question from Mr. Christian Donovan. The shareholder seeks assurances from the board that they will not become involved in the toxic trend of cancel culture and identity politics. It is asserted that this trend is both divisive, discriminatory, and inflammatory. The shareholder insists that the board do not make political donations at all, and certainly not to groups that may masquerade as civil rights organizations, but are in fact extremist political organizations. This business should only appoint on merit and no other criteria, and should only concern itself with the provision of banking and investment services, not politics.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you. We agree with you. HSBC is not changing its position on political neutrality and does not make political donations or incur political expenditure. I can reassure your board of that. Thank you. May I ask for a question, another question from the webcast.

Speaker 9

A question from shareholder Adam McGibbon on behalf of Market Forces. Recently, HSBC participated in a syndicate providing $400 million to Indonesia's coal giant Adaro Energy. The first objective in Adaro's business strategy, based on its annual report, is to maintain thermal coal profitability as the group's cash cow. Adaro has no plans to reduce its coal production, instead planning to produce as much coal in 2021 as it did last year, 54 million tons. Adaro estimates its total coal reserves at 1.1 billion tons. Burning all of these reserves would release 2.2 billion tons of CO2e, almost the equivalent of the annual emissions of India. Why is it HSBC that claims to believe in transition in line with the Paris Agreement is happy to fund Adaro, whose business model solely focuses on coal and is consistent with the failure of the Paris Agreement?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for the question. Again, maybe, [Pete], we do not comment on any individual company or customer for confidentiality reasons. Let me just say a few points here. Under our energy policy, HSBC does not finance the development of new thermal coal mines or serve new customers dependent on thermal coal mining. We do not provide financing for new coal-fired power plants anywhere in the world, and as I said earlier, haven't done so since early 2018. We look and we seek to do business with customers who share our commitments on climate change and to work in partnership with them on decarbonization plans aligned to the Paris Agreement goals.

We're working with customers to help them develop their individual decarbonization plans aligned to these agreement goals, and we expect them, the customers, to make this part of their public disclosures, and which will in turn inform part of our financing decisions. As I said, we'll publish by end 2021 a plan to phase out the financing of all coal-fired power and thermal coal mining by 2030 in markets in the European Union and the OECD, and by 2040 in other markets. Let me go to, please, thank you for the question. Let me go to another question from the webcast.

Speaker 9

From Mr. Sunil Kumar Pal. What is HSBC University, as in Mr. Quinn's report?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

That is a very good question. I think we should ask Mr. Quinn to look at this. It is effectively, as I understand, it's an internal HSBC University. Let me ask Noel if he can to give the details. Can you just repeat the question again and give Noel a few seconds to hear it?

Speaker 9

The question is, what is HSBC University, as per Mr. Quinn's report?

Noel Quinn
Group Chief Executive, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you very much for the question. Across the globe, we have over 200,000 colleagues, and within our HR department, we've set up a dedicated learning and development function to help our colleagues with the training they need, whether it's skills training in a particular part of banking or leadership training, teamworking. What we've done is we've created essentially an internal University, and we have physical locations in a number of different countries. Here in the U.K., our University is located in our Birmingham head office. We have a similar campus in the Middle East, a small campus or a dedicated area in Mexico. We have a similar capability in Asia, and we're building a new campus as we speak in China. That's to create residential experiences. Also the University encompasses digital learning for our colleagues in a whole range of skills and capabilities.

We have a dedicated team who run that on behalf of our colleagues.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you.

Noel Quinn
Group Chief Executive, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for your question.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

May I ask another question from the webcast?

Speaker 9

From Liam Flynn, representing Fair Share Education Foundation. The opening remarks at today's AGM have noted that the pandemic is not over and the necessity of ensuring everyone has access to medicines and vaccines. In recognition that countries need resources to fight the pandemic, G20 governments have provided debt suspension and longer-term restructuring via the Common Framework. Private creditors such as HSBC have yet to follow suit. HSBC profits so far during the pandemic have been over $11 billion, enough to vaccinate the entire continent against COVID-19. Eugene Kabilika from Caritas Zambia has warned the consequences of failing to stop private creditors from profiteering off the backs of the world's poorest people would be devastating for countries such as mine for years to come. What action is HSBC taking to ensure that the debt it holds does not prevent governments in the Global South from responding to the pandemic?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for the question. We've had this question a few times this morning. Again, let me repeat what I've said, is that HSBC takes developments in the sovereign debt markets very seriously. We'll continue to play our part in industry dialogue with governments. We've not received requests from any country to cancel its debts, and to date, none have indicated an intention to request a debt suspension. Of the 73 countries eligible, we undertake business in fewer than 10 and have a physical presence in only two. I say, I think that is, as we've said earlier, we'll continue to look at this seriously and play our part in dialogue with governments. Thank you for the question. Let's go to another question from the webcast.

Speaker 9

From Mr. Peter Cavan-McGregor. Once upon a time, a bank's reputation was regarded as its most valuable asset. Sadly, over the past decade or so, HSBC's reputation, and that of other banks too, has plummeted for various reasons, legal and otherwise. What does HSBC intend to do to make this asset its most important once again?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for that. A number of things we'll look to do, particularly around strategy. The focus as we've set out, trying to get a stronger performance. As a group, we've reallocated capital. We're trying to become more significant and more focused in pivoting to different parts of the world. Also in the business lines that we operate in. Today we're a world leader in climate and sustainability, in green financing of all sorts and sustainability financing of all sorts. HSBC is the world leader, we take these responsibilities here very seriously, and we'll continue to move forward on that. One of the other areas is both as individual, as a bank and you said in the wider community.

I think it's worth, Noel, just giving you a few seconds on some of the things going on, which was mentioned in an earlier question on the Net Zero Banking Alliance, on how the industry itself is looking to move forward in a coordinated way to support the world. Again, we can do things strategically, we can do things financially, we can do things operationally, we can improve diversity. All of these elements we will do internally, which hopefully will give us a better base and a stronger base to build on. Externally, again, there are many aspects that we can do. Let Noel give you a few seconds on just giving one of them, which is around the Net Zero Banking Alliance, which I'm conscious, having thought about it, I didn't answer the question earlier.

Noel Quinn
Group Chief Executive, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you, Mark. We believe strongly in the principle of helping our clients on their transition journey and financing that transition. They're also easy words to say, and the evidence has got to be provided. What we internally within HSBC doing are making sure that we have a framework in place that allows us to turn the ambition of financing Net Zero, financing the transition into actionable programs, and that we're able to report on the progress on those programs to evidence to our stakeholders, our shareholders, that we are truly making progress against that ambition. We want to go further than that because we believe it's also important for the industry to have credibility in the way that they report against their ambition for Net Zero.

I chair a task force at the moment on behalf of the industry that involves 11 other banks, most of them global banks, some domestic banks here in the U.K., where we collectively are trying to put in place a framework that is a consistent framework, a transparent framework that allows our stakeholders to understand how we are moving our financing activities and helping our clients move towards Net Zero. We intend to issue that report towards the end of quarter 3 of this year in the build-up to COP26. Those 11 banks have joined together with the Banking Alliance as part of the UN preparation for COP26, with about another 30 banks, where we want to put in place a very transparent, consistent, open framework of measuring progress from the banking sector globally on its transition to Net Zero. We believe that's important reputationally.

To go out with a statement but then not have credibility in moving toward that ambition will be a problem. We want to not only do it internally for HSBC, we want to try and set the standard for the industry as a whole. Thank you, Mark.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

No, thank you for the answer. Let me take one more question from the webcast.

Speaker 9

Question is actually two linked questions from Nancy Cho Wing Yan. How would the HSBC Group manage the regulatory risk or claims under different jurisdiction in the coming year? Would there be any contingency booked in the financials this year? From Mr. Philip Clark, cash and balances with central banks increased dramatically from $154 billion- $304 billion. Can you please help me understand this? To what extent was this obligatory? If so, why did the balances almost double? Do we achieve any return on these balances?

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Okay, thank you for the question. I think probably best answered by our Chief Financial Officer, Ewen Stevenson. Ewen, can I pass that to you, please?

Ewen Stevenson
Group CFO, HSBC Holdings plc

Yeah. Could I just clarify the question again, please?

Speaker 9

Certainly. From Nancy Cho Wing Yan, how would the HSBC Group manage the regulatory risk or claims under different jurisdiction in the coming year? Would there be any contingency booked in the financials this year? From Mr. Philip Clark, cash and balances with central banks increased dramatically from $154 billion- $304 billion. Can you please help me understand this? To what extent was this obligatory? If so, why did the balances almost double? Do we achieve any return on these balances?

Ewen Stevenson
Group CFO, HSBC Holdings plc

Thank you for the questions. I think what we saw with the onset of COVID was an unprecedented increase in deposit balances across the organization very much both with our personal customers and also with our corporate customers. It was a big move to protect cash balances. We saw double-digit growth over last year in our deposit balances, and a lot of that growth in deposit balances were reposited effectively back into central banks. You will have seen one of the features of our financial results last year was the impact of ultra-low interest rates and a very sharp decline in net interest income across the group. Unfortunately, we're very glad that customers trusted us with those deposits over the last year. In terms of return that we're getting on them at the moment, the returns in the central banks are relatively low.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Ewen, thank you for the questions. I'll have the answers to the question. As we have no further questions from shareholders, I will now end the Q&A session. Thank you for all your questions. If your questions haven't been answered during the meeting or by other means outside of the meeting, please contact us in a way set out in the notice of the meeting. Let me at this point hand across to Noel to close the poll voting.

Noel Quinn
Group Chief Executive, HSBC Holdings plc

Many thanks, Mark. Can I please check that everyone who wishes to vote has done so? This is the last call for voting. Ladies and gentlemen, voting is now closed. Thank you. While the draft results are being calculated, I will pass back to Mark for his closing remarks.

Mark Tucker
Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc

Noel, thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to thank you for your presence and engagement today, whether in person at Queen Elizabeth Hall or electronically, and your continued support of HSBC. I'd also like to thank Noel, David, Ewen, and Aileen for attending the meeting in person, and my fellow directors who attended electronically. The results of the voting will appear shortly. The final results, verified by our registrar and reflecting all votes cast, will be announced to the London Stock Exchange and published later today on the HSBC website. I believe the indicative voting results are now ready. Can they go on screen? Okay, thank you. As shown on the screen, I can confirm resolutions 1-7, 10, and 12 have passed as ordinary resolutions. Resolutions 8, 9, 11, 13-15 have passed as special resolutions.

In line with the board's recommendation, resolution 16 has not passed. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our formal business this morning. For those of you who are present in the hall, please could you leave your voting handsets on your seats when you leave the auditorium. For all others, again, thank you for your attendance today. It is much appreciated, whether in person or online, and I hope you all stay safe and well.