Ladies and gentlemen, good morning and a warm welcome to the 2019 Annual General Meeting for HSBC Holdings Plc. I'm particularly pleased to see that so many shareholders have been able to join us here in Birmingham. HSBC's ties with Birmingham date back 183 years, to when the Birmingham Midland Banking Company first opened its doors for business. Between 1836 1898, the Midland Bank held EGMs and a number of different venues across the city. These included a purpose built head office, which opened in 18/69.
The building still stands on New Street, and it remains a local landmark. It now houses the Apple store. In 2018, we reached a significant new milestone with the opening of HSBC UK, our ring fenced bank here in the city. HSBC is pleased to reaffirm its commitment to Birmingham by holding this meeting here today. I would like to begin with 2 items of housekeeping.
First, Henri de Cast is sadly unable to join us and attend today's meeting and has asked me to pass on his He has other commitments in respect of the AGM of another company, of which he is the senior independent director. 2nd, lunch will be available when the meeting closes at around 12:30 p. M. And I hope as many of you as possible will join me and my fellow directors to continue any discussions. Turning to the formal business of the meeting.
I will ask John Flint to provide his perspective on 2018 in a few minutes. But let me first provide some reflections of my own. Our 2018 results demonstrated both the underlying health of the business and the potential of the strategy John announced in June last year. Despite a particularly challenging external environment in the 4th of 2018. All of our global businesses delivered increased profits in 2018 and higher returns on tangible equity year on Overall, the group delivered higher reported and adjusted profit before tax.
And this allowed the board to approve a 4th interim dividend dollars 0.21 bringing the total dividend for 20.18 to $0.51 I completely understand how important the dividend is to our shareholders, so let me reiterate our policy to sustain the dividend at current level, for the foreseeable future. I would also like to remind you that by declaring interim dividends, which has been our practice for a number of years, we can ensure you benefit from that dividend sooner than would be the case if we had to seek approval at general meetings. With regard to the Board, there have been a number of changes since our last meeting. I would like to welcome Jose Antonio Meade, who joined the Board as an independent nonexecutive director on the 1st March. Pepe brings a wealth of experience gained across a number of key policy areas, and his background and knowledge of Latin America will be of great assistance and value to HSBC.
I would also like to welcome Ewan Stephenson following his appointment as Group Chief Financial Officer, replacing Ian MacKay. Ewen's extensive international experience and a strong and proven track record as a Chief Financial Officer. I would also like to thank John Simons, for agreeing to become Deputy Group Chairman. Finally, we have announced that Jonathan Evans will retire and will therefore not be seeking reelection today. I am very grateful to both Ian and Jonathan for their important and valuable contributions to HSBC.
Ian as Group Finance Director and Jonathan, particularly latterly, as Chair of the Financial Systems Vulnerabilities Committee. Following Jonathan's retirement, the number of directors on the Board will reduce from 17 a year ago to 14 today. And that means, subject to the election and reelection of directors today, your Board will comprise a non executive Chairman, 3 executive directors and 10 independent nonexecutive directors. Our focus remains on creating clearer and stronger lines of accountability and authority and sharpening the board's oversight of performance and progress against the new strategy. Looking at the current environment, the global economy is much less predictable now than it was a year ago.
Global growth is slowing, largely as a result of weakness in Europe, although the economic outlook is also in the U. S. And in Asia. The system of global trade remains subject to political pressure and differences between China and the U. S, I'd like you to continue to inform sentiment through the rest of 2019.
And we hope that the ongoing dialogue between Washington and Beijing has a positive outcome. In the meantime, we are focused on helping to navigate the present uncertainties and make the most of the opportunities that unquestionably exist. Some of these opportunities stem from initiatives underway to lower barriers to trade. The comprehensive and progressive agreement Trans Pacific Partnership, the EU's landmark bilateral agreements with Japan and Singapore and the potential revisions to the U. S.-Mexico Canada Agreement provide important counterweights that could give impetus to international trade in the year ahead.
They also underlined that support for the values of openness and cooperation, which have been present throughout the very long history of commerce across the world remain in place. The structural and financial reforms underway across Asia we'll continue to support economic development in that region. The National People's Congress last month outlined a series of further steps that China will take to liberalize its financial markets. And while forming part of China's response to changing external conditions, they are also part of the much longer process of gradual reform and opening up that has transformed the Chinese economy and created opportunities for domestic and international customers and investors. The U.
S. Economy and the influence of the Federal Reserve remain central to global sentiment, and we expect policymakers to adopt a more cautious stance through the rest of 2019. And finally, many of our UK customers are understandably cautious about the immediate future given the uncertainty surrounding Brexit, uncertainty which seems likely to continue for sometime. We continue to monitor events closely and plan accordingly across our European operations to ensure that the service we provide to our customers is not affected. While there are undoubtedly more risks to global economic growth than this time last year, we remain alert and continue to model and anticipate a wide range of scenarios as part of our risk management.
Our strong balance sheet, revenue base and footprint equip us to evaluate these risks, allocate resources appropriately and most importantly, enable us to help our customers navigate their own paths. Enabling our people to do their jobs to the best of their ability is an essential part of our capacity to support our customers. John will explain shortly how helping our people to fulfill their potential is one of management's strategic priorities. This is also a priority for the Board and for me personally because it's so important to our present and future success. John and his management team have the Board's full support in working to realize this ambition.
Before I hand over to John, let me make 3 points about the formal business of the meeting ahead of Firstly, we are using a new approach to voting at today's meeting. In a change from our usual process, Voting on all resolutions set out in the 2019 notice of meeting will be opened after the opening speeches and before we start taking questions. And I'll come back and tell you exactly when that is. But what this means is that you may cast your votes whenever suits you during the hour or so of Q and A. Voting will then be closed after we have taken your questions, and I will announce the headline results based on the total number of votes cast before the meeting and here in person today before we close.
Some, many of you, may be familiar with this approach, which has been used at other C-one hundred and eight company AGMs. I will come back and explain the voting process in more detail before I open the voting. Secondly, Resolution 3 concerns the new director's remuneration policy. At the 2016 AGM, shareholders overwhelmingly approved our remuneration policy, which has been in force since that time, but which expires today at the end of its 3 year term. Accordingly, as said in the director's remuneration report on Pages 172 to 205 of the annual report and accounts, the Group Remuneration Committee is recommending your approval of a new director's remuneration policy.
After John's opening remarks, the Chair of the Group Elimination Committee, Pauline van der Meer Moore, will set out the key points of the policy and developments since the policy was published. 3rd, Resolution 17 concerns the state deduction for the pensions paid to former Midland Bank employees. While we appreciate the Midland Cloback Campaign Group for their constructive engagement, we cannot support this resolution, and we recommend that shareholders vote against it. We understand this issue is very important, and that many of the people involved devoted substantial portions of their working lives to Midland Bank and then to HSBC. And we have given it a significant amount of time and consideration and have listened carefully to the points raised by the campaign group as well as those made by MPs on behalf of their constituents.
But we must be fair and equitable to all remaining 100 40,000 members of the UK pension scheme, more than half of whom are defined contribution members, and not just to those final salary members who would benefit if the state deduction ceased. Before we decided not to support the resolution, we very carefully reviewed our position and took advice from external legal counsel, after which the Board concluded that this resolution is not in the best interest of all shareholders. We have therefore recommended that shareholders vote against Resolution 17. We set out our reasoning very clearly in Appendix 4 on Page 36 the notice of meeting. I would like to end by thanking the Board, John and each of the 235,000 people who work for HSBC.
In my 1st full year as Group Chairman, I've been enormously impressed by the work ethic, commitment, dedication and talent of our people. And I'm very grateful to each them for the excellent work they do in service of the bank, our customers and each other. Our challenge and shared purpose is to build on that good work for the rest of 2019 and beyond. I have every confidence we can do so. You'll have an opportunity to vote and ask questions later.
But in the meantime, and first, let me hand over to John. Thank you.
Thank you, Mark, and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Let me add my thanks to you for joining us here in Birmingham. As Mark said, Birmingham has played an important role in HSBC's past, and we also believe it can be just as significant to our future. Last year, we opened the new headquarters for HSBC U. K, our ring fenced bank here in Birmingham.
We are confident that Birmingham can help HSBC to grow and that we, in turn, can help the city to write the next chapter its own story. As Mark signaled, HSBC delivered a good set of results in 2018. We grew revenue in our 4 global businesses, which in turn helped deliver reported profit before tax of USD19,900,000,000 up 16% on the prior year. Adjusted profit before tax was USD 21,700,000,000 an increase of 3%. Return on tangible equity was 8.6 percent, up significantly from the 6.8% delivered in the prior year.
This is a good first step towards achieving our overall return on tangible equity target of over 11% by the end of 2020. Adjusted jaws was negative for 2018, which means that our costs grew at a faster rate And revenue. Adjusted costs were broadly as we expected for the full year, but adjusted revenue fell Short, due to market weakness in the Q4. Positive jaws remains an important discipline, and we remain committed 2017, due mainly to adverse foreign exchange movements and the impact of increased lending. We returned a total of USD 2,000,000,000 to shareholders through share buybacks in 2018, reflecting our desire to neutralize the impact of scrip dividends over the medium We remain committed to this policy and to maintaining a broadly stable share count over the medium term, subject to regulatory The 8 strategic priorities that I announced in June last year were important factors in our 2018 results.
While our plan targets clear financial outcomes, it has our customers at its center. We want to bring more of HSBC to more people and to serve them in the best possible way. I encouraged by our progress so far. We're growing customer numbers and capturing market share in our scale markets and from our international network. International client revenue was up 7% on the prior year, and we made a Strong start and accelerating growth from our Asian franchise.
Overall adjusted revenue in Asia was up by 11% on the prior year, With double digit growth in Hong Kong, Mainland China and the Pearl River Delta. We have improved our capital efficiency. And although our U. S. Business is short of where we want it to be, it is moving in the right direction.
Our investment in technology is making our business simpler, safer and easier for our customers to use. We are already seeing results with around 45% of retail customers now using our digital which also account for more than 30% of sales. In Commercial Banking, we have halved the time it takes to onboard new clients. And here in the U. K, we launched our Connected Money app to enable customers to from all of their U.
K. Bank accounts, including those with other providers in one place. We also established our U. K. Ring fenced bank and grew our U.
K. Customer base in 2018. Finally, we are committed to creating stronger, healthier relationships with all of our stakeholders. Earlier this week, we published our latest ESG update, the 4th that we have produced, showing both the progress we've made and the areas where we Still need to do better. How we support all 235,000 people who work for HSBC is one area where I am proud of the work we're doing But eager to do more.
In my 1st year in this role, I started a conversation throughout the bank about how we help our people become the best versions of themselves. And this is part of a broader ambition to create what we call The healthiest human system in our industry. The early signs are positive. In 2018, the previous year. And while this demonstrates an improvement in a relatively short space of time, it also shows that there is still room for further improvement.
This work will continue throughout 2019 Including delivering our strategy and the financial targets. So we have taken the first steps in getting HSBC back to growth. But as Mark explained, the economic outlook has softened since our June 20 strategy update and even since the Q3 of 2018. Let me build on what Mark said by adding 3 points. 1st, the increased uncertainty and risk in the global economy today relates mainly to the U.
K. Economy, Continuing global trade tensions and the future path of interest rates. This is yet to translate into higher credit losses, But that could change if the global economy deteriorates. 2nd, we remain committed to the targets that we outlined in June last year. We will be proactive in managing costs and investment to meet the risks to revenue growth, but we will not take short term decisions that harm the long term interests of the business.
We also have a business that is diversified, resilient and well placed to navigate the risks inherent in today's world. 3rd, the long term drivers of revenue growth remain sound. The reforms that Mark mentioned will, in our view, ensure continued robust growth in China. The Greater Bay Area has become the centerpiece of China's economic development and integration program. The region has a combined population of around 70,000,000 people, a combined GDP of $1,500,000,000,000 and this is expected to triple in size by the year 2030.
Our work to build a scalable business in the Pearl River Delta means we are well positioned to make a Significant contribution to that. As barriers to trade increase in some parts of the world, they are falling rapidly in others, Most notably in Asia. And we are at the heart of financing the low carbon transition, which will be one of the biggest drivers of global investment this So HSBC is in a good position. The strategy is working, Encouraged by our progress, and I'm confident for the year ahead. We remain focused on growing returns, Meeting our return on tangible equity target by 2020 and creating value for you, our loyal shareholders.
Now let me hand back to Mark.
Thank you, John. I would now like to invite Pauline van der Meer Moore, Chairman of the Remuneration Committee, to say a few words about the Director's remuneration report and policy. Pauline?
Thank you, Mark, and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I would like to begin by thanking our shareholders on behalf of the committee for the constructive Dialogue I've had with many of you over the last 12 months. Your willingness to engage with us and To provide feedback has been of considerable value in helping us formulate the new remuneration policy, which we believe meets both your requirements and your expectations based on the feedback we've had from you. So we're asking you to approve 2 remuneration related resolutions today. Resolution 2 covers the 2018 Directors' Remuneration Report, setting out the actual remuneration awarded to directors as detailed on pages 184 to 205 of the annual reports and accounts.
The approval and implementation of our current policy has received very strong support from shareholders in prior years. And I would like to thank you shareholders for that. And I hope that you see fit to support how it was implemented in 2018. Resolution 3 covers the new directors' remuneration policy for the next 3 years, which is Set out on pages 175 to 184 of the annual report. And I'd like to set out some highlights of that new policy and also Touch on the recent announcement that we made regarding the pension allowance paid to the 3 executive directors.
And this represents a development on the information which is included in the annual report and accounts. The committee undertook an extensive review of the policy with 3 key objectives in mind. Firstly, The new policy should be simple and transparent. Secondly, it should maintain a strong alignment between Executive rewards on the one hand and the interest of our stakeholders with a very focus a very large focus long term performance. And thirdly, it should be competitive to ensure that we can continue to retain and attract talent.
As our current policy structure meets these objectives and received very strong shareholder support in the past, we have only proposed minor These changes include using a simplified long term incentive scorecard with fewer measures and The governance simplification initiatives led by Mark with the support of the board have inevitably In an increase in the time commitment required by the remaining directors. And those initiatives along with the support provided by the Board HSBC's ambitious agenda means that the expected time commitment for a director serving on 2 committees, which they typically do, is now 75 days a year. For committee chairs, it is up to 100 days per year. And for the risk committee It is now at least 150 days per year. So as you can see, we are therefore proposing an increase in Fees for our non executive directors to reflect this significant additional time commitment.
The last increase was in January 20 'seventeen and overall the cost in 2019 for non executive director fees will be broadly in line with 2018. As you will be aware, we have also been monitoring recent developments in respect of the pension allowances paid to the 3 executive directors. So since our consultation with shareholders last year and the finalization of the director's This remuneration report, so this is relatively new. Although the further detailed guidance from the Invest and Investment Association on Executive Director pension contribution Has shifted considerably. Given all of that and having listened carefully to our stakeholders, The committee has now clarified that for any new director, any new executive director, the cash in lieu of pension allowance will reduce From 30% to 10% of base salary.
And while the pension allowance paid to current executive directors is governed by existing contractual arrangements. The 3 executive directors also listened and reflected. And they feel it is appropriate that their allowance is reduced To 10% of salary with effect from the 1st April 2019. And the committee remains Very grateful to the EDs for the executive directors for their initiative. However, we do need to be mindful Of the fact that we are Europe's largest bank and our obligation as a committee is to be cognizant of what we pay our executives within a global talent market.
We believe the committee has acted quickly on a complex issue, and I hope you will agree That this is the right thing for the business, for our employees and for you, our shareholders. And I would therefore encourage you to approve both these resolutions. I would be very happy to take your questions when the Chairman allows. Mark, back to
playing the processes for voting and questions. As I explained earlier, voting on all resolutions set out in the 2019 notice of meeting will be open shortly. What this means is you may cast your votes whenever suits you during the next hour or so while we answer your questions. All shareholders will have received a voting handset and smart card at registration. These will have been set up for you then.
The welcome letter you receive provides simple instructions on how to vote. And as a reminder, you can cast your votes on each resolution by selecting the number of the resolution and then pressing Button 1, if you are in favor, button 2, if you wish to vote against or button 3, if you wish to withhold your vote. If you make a mistake or change your mind, just highlight the resolution you wish to vote on and press the correct button number on the handset before voting closes. There is also an option available on the menu for you to cast all your votes in accordance with the Board's recommendations, if you would find that more convenient. If you previously returned a proxy form but were given a keypad and smart card at registration, You may vote now using the keypad and your proxy form will be disregarded.
As I mentioned earlier, voting will remain open for the duration of the question and answer. And I will give you due warning when voting is about to close after we have taken your questions. Again, please refer to the instructions in the welcome letter if anything is unclear. So in accordance with the company's articles of association, I give formal notice that I demand a poll on each of the resolutions numbered 1 2017 as set out in the 2019 AGM notice. Voting is now open.
This brings us on to your questions. Phone to be brought to you. Before asking your question, can I ask you please to state your name and confirm that you are a shareholder or give the name of the shareholder you represent? In the interest of allowing as many shareholders as possible to participate, I will be grateful if you could please limit yourselves to one question and to keep it as brief as possible and to the point. If you have a question that is specific to an individual customer relationship, Please speak to one of our dedicated customer representatives in Hall 3 after the meeting.
They are there to help you. As a reminder, voting is now open and will remain open until the end of the questions. Does anyone have any questions? Okay. Maybe we can take a couple.
Maybe we can take 1 and 2, The question is nearest to you first, please.
Necessary, a shareholder. I've got 2 questions. I know you're in the meeting to 1. And I want to try and Put my questions into perspective. The question I want to ask is the face of capitalism has got to change.
YouTubers, being the largest bank in Europe, can lead that change. And that change for me goes in 3 for 4 areas. And I read the report, and I want to ask what you feel will come first. Would profit compress or moral obligation sometimes? There's the staffing issues with pensions and the pay.
There's This investing in companies which are participating in human rights abuses, this climate Change companies and investing in that. And fourthly, having a policy or introducing the policy where so much of the profit goes into doing social good for the world. Now because as a shareholder and other people, People are not going to be told that this is the way things will be done because people blame the bankers for the past 10 years' mistakes. So on all those issues, how is the bank going to deal with that type of issues now and in the future?
Thank you. Let's take the second question as well, and we'll come back to answer. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I'm here today as a shareholder, but also to represent the concerns of 1,000 Christian Aid supporters in churches up and down the U. K. Earlier, John HSBC was committed to financing the low carbon transition, which obviously we welcome. But yet recent evidence indicates that the bank is still a net contributor to climate change.
According to the respected Banking on Climate Change reports published In March of this year, HSBC has provided $19,000,000,000 worth of finance to new fossil fuel projects Since the Paris Agreement on climate was signed in 2015, that's and then $58,000,000,000 In total, to fossil fuels, we're also concerned that according to other evidence, HSBC is Leading European Financer of Coal Power Companies. The IPCC report of October 20 synthesizing the research of over 600 scientists plus previous IPCC reports from the past 5 years have proved that to keep global temperature rise to below 1.5 degrees or even well below 2 degrees and avoid catastrophic climate change, the expansion of the fossil fuel industry must be The expansion of the fossil fuel industry must be brought to an immediate stop. So why is HSBC still investing in new in Fossil Fuel Projects. I want to speak from the heart for a minute. Christian Aid works with communities who have lost family members, Homes everything to climate related incidents, typhoons in the Philippines, floods in Bangladesh, Droughts in Kenya.
So I wonder what the board has to say to these communities about its expansion of finance to fossil fuels. And when will HSBC publish a plan for phasing out the finance of fossil Feels altogether with a clear time frame that is in line with the Paris agreement which HSB supports and
Thank you for your question and thank you for both questions. What I'd like to do is deal with the first question, talk to the first question and ask John, I think, to give you much more specific information and background about the sustainability and the climate issues. And that takes part of question 1. So you sort of wait for the end of that. I think all of the points you raised, profit versus moral obligation, human rights abuses, climate and social good are all things that are that stay very focused in our agenda and our thinking.
And we realized that not only we have obligations to shareholders, but we have significant obligations to the communities in which we work, the communities in which we operate and have done so for many years. And I think if you ask those communities, By and large, almost without exception, they will say to you that we understand our social role. We have been a contributor to all of those different elements, and we think about it actively. And I think the ESG report, which was published just a few days ago. I don't know whether you had an opportunity to look at that.
But I think that, again, really sets out clearly how we think, what we've done and how we what we believe. But the points you raise are, again, Fair points and there's no right or wrong answer, but we thought about these, we think constantly about these, and we will continue to think constantly. John, perhaps you talk about sustainability, etcetera.
Sure. Mark, thank you. And Mr. Rafiq, thank you for the question. Just I'll echo everything Mark said.
If you haven't read the ESG report yet, it's very recently published, but it does attempt actually to deal with exactly the question that you ask. The spirit of the question that you ask is something that I agree with. I think we do have to make a better job of making these trade offs and Blaming how we make the trade offs. We're 154 years old, and we'd like to think that we've got a long period in front of us to serve people. And we'll only be able to do that if we get these trade offs right.
So perhaps if you've got time at the end of this, we can have a chat through the ESG report. With Back to the challenge around climate change and the transition to a low carbon economy. Again, I'm glad that this has been raised in this forum. I think we believe that we have a leading role to play in that transition. This is Global problem that we need to and we have global stewardship responsibilities, I think, to play a part in that solution.
What I think we don't agree with you is a suggestion that we need to bring an immediate end to the financing of all fossil fuels. I think most climate scientists and even the Paris Accord don't anticipate, don't require, don't suggest that we need to stop Financing all fossil fuels today. We haven't yet reached what we believe is going to be the peak carbon consumption for the planet. What we have to do is play a meaningful role in that transition. Most of the debate to date is focused around coal fired power, and we've got quite and explicit policy around how much appetite we have to participate in the financing of coal Power Generation.
But I think it will be wrong at this point to suggest or even for us to begin Commit to a total ban on financing for fossil fuels because the world has other sustainable development goals that it needs to meet. And we haven't yet got To what we think is the peak consumption of carbon. That's ahead of us, and then we have to plan for the transition. HSBC is committed to playing its role. We've as you know, we committed a while ago to deliver $100,000,000,000 of financing Towards sustainable financing, we've delivered $28,500,000,000 already.
We've made commitments To our own energy consumption and making sure that our energy consumption is all renewable by 2,030. We're not there yet, but we've got a way to go. So yes, the spirit of the question we agree with, the way that we affect the transition, I think we have a slight difference And
I think we have had some dialogue with Christian Aid, and we're very happy to continue that. Maybe we go to let's do it in number 45 next. Okay, maybe 6 and 5 and 6.
Good morning. My name is Muneera Chaudhary, and I am A proxy holder for Mr. Alan Williams. HSBC and a consortium of banks are financing massive dredging of the Payara Deep Seaport in Bangladesh to make way for, among other things, a coal terminal. This terminal will have an enormous annual capacity of 14,000,000 tonnes of coal.
According to the port authority, this coal will supply 8 coal fired power plants. The dredging for Para Port Highly controversial. According to Doctor. Herman Kudras, a scientific advisor at the University of Bremen with a background in Bangladesh Marine geology, dredging and maintenance costs for the channel would be extremely costly, difficult or even impossible due to high sedimentation and cyclone prone inundations. Locals have reported hardships and corruption in retrieving compensation for the land they lost due to the construction of the port.
HSBC's annual policy is opening up the floodgates for pollution that Bangladesh has ever experienced before. The outcry from local groups in Bangladesh, Vietnam and Indonesia is clear from this full page ad on Page 19 in Result from the burning of coal imported through the expanded pyra port, including damage to Bangladesh and the world's environment as well as to the livelihoods of locals who would suffer devastating impacts of air pollution, when will HSBC withdraw its involvement in the Pirate
then we'll come back. Thank you.
Can you hear me? Well, thank you for the invite to the shareholders' AGM. I will report my interest is in favor Resolution 17, Pension Claibank. And I really want to appeal to all the shareholders who may have already thought they'd follow the Board's directive to just vote for everything the Board said. And just step back one little moment and listen to me for a couple of seconds before I actually ask my question, Board, if you step back, 46 years ago, when this policy came in for clawback, you can just imagine A board pretty well made up of the same mixture, but it would have been all men, gray haired, non gear service, Deciding what a good policy would be to change the pension scheme and come up with a calculation that in their wildest Today, nobody ever would put forward as equitable.
It is not equitable To say that the lowest paid, the longest serving staff should have the biggest proportion of their pension taken away from them when they get Pension Aid. And I just step back again to 74. When the banks used to advertise For staff to in recruitment campaigns, it was very often that girls were put into the Type On the Board, probably some people here who have benefited from being in a male dominated area and being pushed Whilst women were told that they could give up their pension rights for marriage gratuities and don't worry your silly little head about pensions Because let's face it, you're going to get married, you're going to have children, you're going to have somebody who's going to have a pension. It does not matter to you. You don't need to even understand the financial implications of what state deduction is.
And let me count the state deduction. Everybody I know and I've asked a lot of intelligent people what do they think state deduction means. They think it is From the state pension. Well, unfortunately, we've had a triple whammy being female because for a start off, we were Contracted out with SERPs, yes, for a lower national insurance payment, but HSBC benefited better Because I also had lower National Insurance payments. Then we get to state pension age and we have a lower state pension.
Then we've got the gender pay gap. Well, everybody knows because HSBC has admitted it that women were likely to be paid 30% less Their male counterparts, again, in an area where males were pushed up the craylada faster than women. And That's going to have a direct impact on the pension part, the value of it. So again, another deduction Hidden for women. And the third one, which is the real worst one, is the HSBC clawback because when I say that women who Picked up £7,500 per annum and that is not a lot.
I've been taken then for working 40 years, £2,500 off that amount, that is disgusting. And that is the 3rd and final triple whammy My question here is to the Board because I noticed when I looked on the share dealings for last month and it will be John Flint Mark Moses, particularly Mark Moses, my bottom drawer drops because they trade in nearly £2,000,000 of shares from their The wealth of HSBC, this is money that the women will dream of never having. So my question is, when the Board said We are comfortable in saying vote against Resolution 17. Were they really so Comfortable when they went to their share portfolio of £20,000,000 plus shares and took a little bit out for their piggy bank To keep them going this year that they are pushing a lot of HSBC ex staff, loyal, hardworking staff into Further poverty. The pension funds can't afford to put this right.
If we made mistakes years ago, We put them right today. We don't go, oh, it was made by somebody else. Come on board. Take Some human sense in this. And please, shareholders, please do not just directly vote with the Board on their recommendation.
Please take a moment To look at the arguments put forward and have a look at the history of women and pensions. And please do something for the women in this world that have helped this country
Thank you for the question and, again, number of elements. We'll come back if we can answer the first question first. And I think I'll ask John to talk in detail about the particular exceptions we make to Bangladesh, Indonesia and Vietnam. But I can tell you personally, I spent a good amount of time in Bangladesh. And it is, as you say, a beautiful country, and we'll do everything we can to preserve that beauty.
John?
Mark, thank you. And thank you very much for the question. I'm not familiar with the dredging operation or the financing of that. So I won't speak to you in detail about that, but I think the question speaks really to the energy policy that sits behind that. And in our energy policy, you will recall that we have made exceptions to allow us to continue, possibly, To finance new coal fired power in 3 countries, of which Bangladesh is 1.
And we made that carve out very deliberately Because these are 3 countries where we have the privilege of being a full scale universal bank. We serve these wonderful And at present, significant parts of the population don't have access to electricity. And at present, it's reasonably clear there isn't a viable alternative to coal. Now we feel, given that we have a network of 66 countries. It's most important to us that this transition to a low carbon economy is an inclusive transition.
It's too easy to sit in London or Birmingham. And say to people in low- and middle income countries, you can't have what we have. Now I know it's a complicated the transition is complicated because the world has a problem that it needs to solve. But we just felt, As HSBC, the right thing to do was to allow a short window for these 3 specific countries to finance And to develop new coal fired power. We also recognize that coal is probably the first fossil fuel that does heat, to come out of the energy picture If we're to affect the transition.
So we've been quite clear in this carve out that in order for us to finance, we will need independent advice that there is no credible alternative in Bangladesh to coal. And Any new development will have to happen will have to be done in the context of the highest possible technology standards. Since we announced this policy a year ago, worth noting, we haven't financed any new coal fired power. And I think given that the way technology is moving, as each month passes, the probability that we will, will Probably full. But I think it's an the carve out is important to us.
This transition must be inclusive. We have a privilege serve these countries, and it's not for us to tell them that their people can't have electricity. Thank you.
Thank you. I think that's just in time, Mitch, I think we'll move on to back to the previous question. Can we come back? I can come back at the end if we need to, if we have time, please. If I can come to talk about the state deduction and the clawback campaign.
I mean, I think, as you know, we've thought long and hard about this. We've debated it both at the executive level and the management level. We know this is a very important issue. We don't take it lightly for one second. And we know that many of the people devoted significant parts of their working lives to Midland and then to HSBC, and we are grateful for that.
In coming to our decision also, we listened very carefully to the points Raised by the Campoy and Group, we again saw many MPs on behalf of their constituents. We've sought a number of elements of legal advice. We have in the group current and former employees, over 300,000 people that we provide benefits too. And that includes 190,000 of the U. K.
Pension schemes. Again, a large proportion, a majority proportion are defined contribution members, not defined benefit members. And we have to be fair to all of these current and former employees, and not just to those who benefit if the state deduction ceased. I think it's worth noting a couple of points that the post-nineteen seventy four secondtion members are provided with a guaranteed income in retirement and it's amongst the most generous of the pension schemes right across the group. The large majority of our current employees, as I said, are members of pension plans that won't to deliver a guaranteed income in retirement.
As you said, and again, we agree the state deduction does impact lower earning employees, many of whom are female. But it is not discriminatory in nature, and we stated Clearly, in the written response and in the notice of the AGM, there were a number of factors that impact the size of the deduction as a percentage of the member's total pension. And again, you have issues like commutation and you have issues of early retirement, which make more complex. We set out clearly, As clearly as we can, in Appendix 4 of the notice of the AGM and the shareholder resolutions, our position. We're happy to continue to talk further.
And as you say, everybody has an opportunity to vote. You began by saying it was a board directive. It's not a board directive. It's a board recommendation to shareholders to vote, and shareholders must clearly take their own views. But we believe that this the policy that we've set is in the best interest of shareholders, the best interest of equality and fairness across our cohorts of pensioners across the world.
And benefiting 1 at the cost of another is not the right thing to Okay. Can we take the next question, please? Maybe number 8 and number 7, please.
Are you with me or not? Charles Draught, small shareholder, Chairs and nominee account, under beneficiary. Why have we got the yellow poll cards if we got machines. These yellow poll cards, why have we got them if we got machines? We got voting sits down the middle.
Just use the machines are the final, so just use the machines.
Thank you.
My name is Paul Robson. I'm a proxy voter for I have been to Brazil, and I have studied the impact of the collapse of 2 mining tailings dams in the last 4 years Under the ownership of Vale and the devastating impacts that the catastrophic collapse of these tailings dams has had in the areas of in the river basins where these mining disasters have occurred. HSBC It is an investor in the mining sector. It is an investor in Vale. What these two events in Brazil demonstrate
is, first of all, that's the collapse
of these mining Straight is, first of all, that the collapse of these mining waste dams does have a catastrophic effect, which Possibly, can it ever be remediated? And secondly, it indicates that there's a great deal of unquantified risk in the mining industry, in particular in the way that it disposes of waste, in particular in these kinds of mining, Tailings dams. And it is far from clear that there is really an independent system to quantify this risk. And it is something which investors in the mining sector really ought to be concerned about because we don't know how much risk There is in this area. What my question is, is as an HSBC, BC as an investor in the mining sector and particularly as an investor in Vale, what it is doing to ensure that the mining sector, in particular the Ares company in Brazil, does have an independent system To quantify the risks of mining waste disposal and whether it actually has On behalf of investors and its shareholders and the companies, whether it actually has financial reserves which are sufficient To cover the decommissioning and recuperation and repair to these mining waste dams And to provide compensation and remediation if there are further disasters.
Thank you.
Thank you for your question. And maybe I can take it at a high level and give John to give a detail. I think, I mean, first of all, Clearly, we're deeply sad at the tragedies at the 2 tragedies in Brazil and those people that lost lives. In terms of the support of and this was in clearly the iron ore sector, on the carbon side. But I think the basis and maybe John can talk a little bit about the what we say how we think on the mining side and gain, particularly on the waste disposal, whether we have the systems in place to be able to assess as you say.
Mark, thank you. Yes, thank you for the question. And I'll just add My sympathies to those expressed by Mark. I mean, it's a terrible tragedy. I don't want to speak about Vale as an individual customer because you know we have a policy I'm not doing that.
But I do think attitudes towards this kind of industrial accident are shifting. And we're going to have to update our risk management frameworks as well to ensure that we're keeping abreast of the risks that are inherent You described us as an investor in the mining sector. I think primarily, we're a lender to them, but that does mean we're deploying capital here That's at risk. So we will have to refresh our thinking around this, I think in line with both the mining industry and our sector as the providers of capital. But I don't have anything specific to commit to today.
I think that's Probably something that we'll be updating you on later in the year.
I can take maybe 1 in the front here. 2, it would take maybe 1 at a time, please.
Good afternoon, Mark and John. I've been Made a special visit. Normally, I'm a regular at the London venues and probably sing the same tune and nothing's happening. Basically, last year, I raised a question on travel insurance. Somebody mentioned besides me that people are living longer than 70 and the banks have a look at it, nothing has happened is over the years absolutely nothing.
I mentioned another bank at the same time, but that's not an issue now at the moment. Our charges for travel insurance are very expensive when you want to extend over 31 days. And can you even say nationwide, probably very, very reasonable. I think we should look at it. If somebody wants to extend or retired and want to travel abroad more than 31 days, It stops us going in terms of price.
Price is crazy. HSBC, ridiculous. You might as well get a yearly travel insurance for the price they're charging for extension. So if you can, I think it's been going on years and they mentioned that we'll pass through a resolution team and nothing has happened? Same thing, I think I mean prior to your arrival here, I've raised the issue.
We should look at comparison with other banks. With small charges, you have more on their travel or Premier customer service is 4, 5 different item, NatWest, Lloyd's, Barclays. I won't I will speak to somebody after the meeting. If they can speak to me, I'll be grateful. And one suggestion for the bank, I think M and S, which is a subsidiary, have started one time password in India.
It's been going for years. It will really help the bank. And I think we should progress. I think this is on progress, but really should move up so that it does help one time password in India has been going for last 3 years. Anyway, Hugo, it will help the security.
It will help and my wife had a note from the Marks and Spencer Bank and asked Frater to rank call center said, what's happening? Oh, we're looking at it. It will come. It's still please. Thank you.
Again, thank you for the question. We do have Representatives here, and I promise you, we won't ask the same question next year. We'll you may not like the answer, but we will definitely answer the question. Thank you.
Thanks very much. I'm Rivka Barnard, shareholder, and I'm here on behalf of Woron Want. In December of this past year, HSBC We announced that it had fully divested from Elbit Systems, which is an Israeli arms company that's been involved in the production of white phosphorus and Artillery systems that are compatible with cluster munitions, of course, that's contrary to international treaties and not also contrary to HSBC's own policies. Now for years HSBC had been invested in Elbit's system, so it had gone under the radar of HSBC's monitoring system. So my question has to Do with what the bank is doing to look at its monitoring system and can the bank give assurances that it's not still doing business With other companies that are producing cluster munitions.
Thank you. Let me set the context here. I think you know we operate in 66 countries and territories across many different cultures, culture divides, etcetera. We're not a political organization. Our purpose is to help our customers and employees.
Our purpose is around supporting economic growth and development of financial markets as responsible long term investors. And really to help our employees make judgments in an increasingly complex world, what we've done is set out both values and sector based specific policies. So with regard to Elbit, our decision to divest from Elbit was based on our long standing defense policy. We do not invest in companies linked to the use, stockpiling, production and transfer of cluster munitions. Our decision was not the result of any campaigning by 1 on 1 or BDS and is not indicative of support for either of those movements.
This was a decision taken for exactly the point that you made, the monitoring that we have of this, The boundaries that we put in both terms of value and sector specific policies prevent us from doing it and that the systems are currently in place and demonstrated by this example are working well. Sir, if you've had your opportunity, please, can we just pass on to the next question? Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to stop. Thank you. If we could take maybe 6,
please. Thank you. Mary campaign because of its business dealings with companies selling weapons and military technology to Israel. This is used in violence Which is currently being investigated by the International Criminal Court. On this basis, HSBC local branches are being picketed regularly in dozens of locations around the U.
K, a campaign which has been growing each month. So my question is, what steps are the Board taking to mitigate this reputational risk?
Thank you. I mean, effectively, my answer to that question is exactly the same answer I've given to the question a second ago. The way that we have set this up internally is to In an environment in a world that's increasingly complex, we have both sector and value based policies that are set out. And our teams, through the banking business, through the investment business, are making decisions on that basis. And that's how that enables us to have taken the decisions that we've taken.
We will not As we said, we will not take political positions, and we will not invest in companies linked to the use, stockpiling production and transfer of cluster munitions. Thank you. We had
I'm Sybil Cock and I'm a shareholder. HSBC has been named And shamed over its complicity in human rights violations in Palestine. HSBC has also been flagged, as we've heard, as a laggard in implementing effective Due diligence processes. What has the bank done to ensure it is not linked to breaches of human rights and International Law in Palestine.
Again, thank you for the question. The answer is the same as the previous questions. I have nothing to add. Can we have the next question, please? Number 5, please.
And maybe just as we go to number 5, please go ahead, go to I think just to remind you that voting is open. You can vote at any time during this Q and A through your machines. And again, I'll inform you before we close all voting, but voting remains open now. Please.
My name is Councillor Glencairn. I'm here representing the Local Authority Pension Fund Forum, an association of 80 local government pension schemes and six Calls with assets under management were around £230,000,000,000 Majority of our LGPS funds hold HSBC shares. Given that HSBC is one of the worst gender pay gaps In the U. K. Banking system, what steps are you taking to address the widening of the gender pay gap in HSBC?
I think with regard to gender pay gap, I think you look at it in terms of again, from the employee side. I think John is the best person to be able to answer that.
Mark, thank you. And thank you for the question because this is a really important issue. I mean, just to remind everybody, the gender pay gap is not a reflection of a pay equality issue at the moment. Is not the case that women get paid less for doing the same work as men. That's not the issue.
The issue fundamentally is the pyramid. We don't have enough Senior women in HSBC. But we're making progress. So in 2012, our Senior management population was 22% female. At the end of last year, we'd improved that to 28.2 And we've got a public commitment to get to 30% by the end of next year, and we're on track for that.
When we get there, we'll set a new target because 30 Percent is not good enough either. So I think you can feel good, and we should all feel encouraged by the progress we're making. We've got more work to do. And that, over time, will correct the gender pay gap. Just there are a couple of structural issues that relate to HSBC Which make our numbers look as bad as they are.
We have our wholesale banking business, which is headquartered in London, the hub of which is in London, And that is still a very male dominated industry, changing slowly as well, but that skews our numbers. Plus, the group's head office Is in London, which is, to my earlier point, still predominantly male, improving over time. But That explains why our numbers actually are outliers even in the context of our industry. The way to deal with this is to get more women into senior positions in banking, and we're making good progress. Thank you.
I think also the on the nonexecutive side, I think as you can See the Hampton and Alexander review recommended board diversity of 33% female by 2020. At the present time, at the end of 2018, our 5 female directors on the board represented over 36 So again, we're not looking to just accept targets. In this area, we're looking to exceed them. Next question, please. Can we go to number 8, please?
From the Board on the HSBC business current relationship with Caterpillar in which it holds Chairs, is the Board aware that the bulldozers and other machinery manufactured by Caterpillar are used in illegal activities, Including the destruction of Palestinian homes, the construction of illegal settlements in the West Bank And the illegal apartheid wall on Palestinian land. These are considered war crimes under to international law. Last October, the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court made a public Statement saying she is watching the issue of house demolitions closely. Has the HSBC
Thank you for the question. I think, again, HSBC does not take positions on our political issues. We take and we strongly report observance of international human rights principles as they apply to business. Sir, please, we're answering the question. Please, I'm answering the question.
We examine all of the companies that we operate in, that we invest in and we support across a whole bunch of different criteria. Again, I'm not familiar with the depth of the Caterpillar side, I know whether John, again, neither of us can. We will go back and look again, look at this and come back if there is an issue. But I'm sorry, I don't have enough information at this point to be able to answer the question in any depth. Thank you.
Please, number 4.
Good morning, sir. My name is Seger. I'm a shareholder. I'm also with a colleague, a shareholder, We wrote to you 3 times over the last 4 months, and so far, we've had no response from you. I wonder why that is, It was addressed to you personally.
If that's the case, then I apologize and it's unacceptable. And we will look into, if we give again your name to the representatives around afterwards, I will personally look into it to make sure that
If you're in the hall at lunchtime, so I'd like to have a word with you personally, if I may.
You may.
Thank you very much.
I'd like to speak about Resolution 17, Mr. Chairman. My name Nancy Ball, I'm shareholder, pensioner and committee member of the Midland clawback campaign. The senior Executives and the trustees of our pension scheme are failing monumentally to shoulder any responsibility for the confusion and the chaos that surrounds the Midland section of the scheme. Collectively, you have laid the blame on the scheme members and your current Cloback is not disproportionate.
You are wrong. A senior manager retiring with a pension of 50 Thousand. On the 30th June 2015, after 40 years pensionable service, We'll lose 2,514 from their occupational pension on reaching state pension age, which A loss of 5%. A cashier retiring with a pension of £10,000 on the same date and with the same number of pensionable years will lose The same amount of 2,514, which is a loss of 25%. This is disproportionate by a factor of 5.
The administrators, Willis Towers Watson, fare no better. One lady that I happen to know has Received a letter from WTW to say that they have overpaid her pensions since she attained state pension age. They went on to say that they should have been making the state deduction of £95 a month. Initially, they said that she owed clawback of 8,000 and £68 and then they changed their minds and said it was £8,300. Then they said that they would let her off with the extra and stick With the 8,068, she like the rest of us never knew that her pension should have been reduced and if She had.
I have no doubt that she would advise the administrators of their error. This is a lady The proposed clawback per month will be £169 leaving just 3 £75 per month of her occupational pension. If this lady walked into a branch of She's 69 years old and secondly, she was recently bereaved. On hearing this, Clive Beth, MP said, and I quote, these individuals said that they didn't know about the scheme and HSBC Said that it is perfectly obvious, so obvious they didn't even know about it themselves in this case. You state To remove clawback would be a cost to the company of £450,000,000 You offer no explanation How to arrive at this figure?
Our pension pot is in surplus as at March 2018 to the tune of £6,000,000,000 that is £2,600,000,000 The Midland section of the defined benefit scheme has 52,000 Which is 25% of the current HSBC pensioner population. Clawback at present subsidizes the other 25% who are unaffected by clawback and it saves the company money. 20 5% of the above stated surplus is £650,000,000 This money effectively belongs to the DBS And you know you can afford to cancel clawback, state deduction, downward adjustment. I think that's a term that you used recently, Mr. Tucker.
Whatever you wish to call it, but sadly you don't choose to. To put the cost into some perspective, HSBC We've paid fines and compensation since the year 2000 of US5.78 billion dollars using exchange rate of $1.3 to the pound and this equates to £4,446,000,000 So an average on a so an annual average cost to the bank of £234,000,000 You've made a grave error of judgment and have massively underestimated the upset and distress your indifferent I wrote to the Equality and Human Rights Commission and I know that they have written We have gained the support
of UNITE.
I have a question. I'm coming to it. We've raised the support of UNITE. We've appointed our own solicitor and barrister, paid forward the funds raised by the campaigners. The media are taking Great interest in the financial distress the pensions of this wealthy bank suffer.
Now I would like To kindly ask the shareholders to come to their own decision regarding clawback, and hopefully, you will support us today and vote in favor for Resolution 17. Just two questions, Mr. Chairman. In your elitist world, do you have any concept of the misery that this archaic pension For 1,000 of pounds worth of debt, a debt that has been created by their own maladministration. Thank you.
And thank you for your questions. With regard to the pension overpayment, again for this, we apologize. There has been There was an operational error by the pension scheme administrator, which unfortunately meant that 47 members, 47 out of 52,000 received an overpayment of their pension. The trustee, I think as you're aware, contacted the effective individuals in early 2018 and proposed repayment plans to be able to reclaim the overpayment. And in most cases, the amounts have been repaid or a plan for repayment has been agreed.
We appreciate, too, to your point that to repay could result in an unexpected financial impact, and we are very keen to ensure this is mitigated as far as possible. So the trustee has extended all sorts of flexibility in the repayment period to reduce the financial impact. It's a mistake made by pension scheme administrators. We apologize. Again, we will put the the trustee effectively has an obligation to pay benefits in line with the scheme rules and a duty to take action when that's not the case, and this was clearly not the case.
With regard to the, again, your overall point and whether we are comfortable, We've done enormous amount of work. We've had these conversations internally. We've gone out externally. We've checked communication. We've checked with, again, legal advisers on all of these external legal advisers.
And again, we are comfortable that we are making the recommendation that we made, which, as you say, shareholders will vote on, the recommendation to vote against Resolution 17. Next question, please.
Justin Cox, a proxy holder and from 2 brokers and a beneficial owner. Builds on the stated goal of bringing HSBC to more customers. I'm a conservative millennial, it's becoming a little bit of rarity these Who believes in the power of capitalism to lift people from poverty, provide individuals more opportunities, the ability to lead better lives and the ability to help others. I'm concerned with decisions of certain banks like JPMorgan, where the media has reported they have chosen to It's based apparently solely on the customer's conservative politics. This has alienated many of their customer base.
Can the bank commit to not discriminating solely on the basis of conservative or liberal personal viewpoints. Finally, I want to thank, Pertaining to the resolution, Irene Lee. I think she's a wonderful director, has a great staff, is easily contactable. I'm definitely voting for her. And Lauren Wolfson is wonderful within the bank.
Ben Matthews, Lauren Klug, Niela Sheredia, Director of Security. And we Really, as shareholders, appreciate the wonderful service that these outstanding professionals provide to the bank. Thank you.
Thank you for, again, the mention of the directors and the service you're getting. I don't want to make policy for the bank as we speak. John, I think we would both be fairly comfortable with anything that's of a non miscriminatory nature. We have no intention of emanating it out against anybody or anything. Okay.
Do we have maybe number 5, please, behind you?
Hello. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Peter Mulvey. I'm an ex employee, pensioner, premier customer and a shareholder.
Just quickly, I'd just like to reinforce and support the comments made in the clawback, which I've also suffered from. But I think everyone said their piece, so I see nothing on that? My question just now is actually about one of the resolutions, which is probably a first for this one. So It's Resolution No. 15 regarding the scrip dividend.
Ben, I've got a note signed by you talking about the scrip dividend That we may elect to receive a scrip dividend. I have ISAs, as did my wife, and we can't get Dividends on the ISAs. Now an ISA is a savings scheme. I don't want the cash. And I realize in other people, other people might want the cash.
I don't want the cash. But I have To take the cash and Invest Direct can't give me a suitable explanation about why I have to take I can't take the script. Now I'd like to take the script and carry on investing in the company, but I have to then go and buy it, pay the stamp duty, pay the fees, which I think It's wrong. All I want is one button on the Invest Direct account I can press and say convert to script. Can we do that?
And if not, can you Change the over air comments for next year's annual report.
I mean, it sounds a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Let us get the experts to come and talk to you, get the details. And if there's an issue that we can support that makes sense and that what you say makes sense, then I think we would be happy to I think we've got time for one more, one last question. Okay. Maybe you would take in the middle here, please, number 1.
Hello. My name is Sam, and I'm attending on behalf of ShareAction. Last month, as I'm sure you know, major HSBC shareholders, Including your 10th largest shareholder representing over $1,000,000,000,000 in assets sent a letter that asked the bank to commit to taking stronger action on coal. A central ask of the letter was for HSBC to institute a corporate finance policy that loans and underwriting services to companies that are heavily reliant on coal. As recognized by HSBC's peers such as ING, BBVA, Santander and UBS, they have substantially restricted finance for coal reliant companies.
The coal sector represents a real financial risk. In fact, as pointed out by your own shareholders in the letter, early closures of power plants in the coal sector will lead to losses of up to $8,300,000,000,000 With the cost of solar and wind plummeting, This future fast approaches. If HSBC continues to finance coal companies, it is not only exposing its shareholders to financial risks, It is accelerating the growth of the most polluting fossil industry in the economy. This not only has huge health implications For communities in industrializing countries with coal expected to cause 70,000 premature deaths in Southeast Asia alone, But it's leading to a runaway climate crisis that will displace the poorest on our planet. The coal for development narrative Does not hold water.
And I'd like to say in response to what you said earlier, John, we haven't reached peak carbon consumption yet, But the International Energy Agency has found that our current stock of carbon intensive infrastructure will bring us to that point, I. E, there is no room for expansion. To protect the interests of the bank shareholders and the safety of our planet, We are asking HSBC to commit to a prohibition of general corporate financing, underwriting and advisory services To companies that are highly dependent on coal mining or coal power and as such are unlikely to transition in the timescales needed, Will you commit to this today?
Sam, thank you for the question. I don't want to repeat what I said earlier on. I mean, I agree with most of what you said, actually. The role of coal, It will be the 1st fossil fuel that needs to come out of the equation if we're going to meet our As I plan it anyway, at least. But the route by which we get there is Where we will disagree.
The policy that we've got now really focuses on coal fired power. In the developed world, by the end of this year, we won't be involved In coal fired power financing anymore. And we've got that small exception for 3 low- and middle income countries that goes out only to 2023. Your question is broadening this out into not just power generation, but the other parts of the coal supply chain. That's something I'll take away and have a look.
Yes. No, I understand. So correct. So we'll take that away and have a look at it. But I'm not going to commit to anything today without Doing the research.
But I appreciate the spirit of the question, and I'm grateful to you for raising it.
Okay. I think just am not going to take any more questions. We're happy. John and I, the directors will be happy to see anybody outside or during the lunch break, and we're happy to continue the conversation then. What I'd like to do so at this point is Just check that everybody's voted or has had time to vote.
I'll give let me give another 10, 15, 20 seconds for anybody that wants to vote or change to be able to do that in light of what they've heard this morning. Okay. I plan to close the voting in the next 10 seconds. Let me close the voting. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for that.
The detailed results, which verified by our registrar and reflecting all that's cast, will be announced to the London Stock Exchange and published later today on the HSBC website. As you'll see behind me on the screen, I can confirm now that resolutions 1 to 8, 11, 13 and 15 have passed as ordinary resolutions. Resolutions 9, 12, 9, 10, 12, 14 and 16 have passed as special resolutions. And in line with the Board's recommendation, Resolution 17 has not passed. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our formal business.
I would like to thank our directors for their invaluable contributions to HSBC, and to all of my colleagues for their tireless efforts. I would also like to thank you for your presence today, for coming for Birmingham, your engagement and your support of HSBC. There are lunch bags available in Hall 3 where my fellow directors and I, as I've said, will be happy to continue our discussions. Lastly, please could you leave your voting handsets on your seat when you leave the auditorium. Many thanks again for coming today.
Thank you.