Thank you all for standing by and welcome to today's Money Supermarket Group Quidco Acquisition and Q3 Results Conference Call. Our presentation for today will be followed by a question and answer session. Please be advised the call is being recorded. And I would now like to hand the call over to your speaker, Mr. Peter Duffy.
Thank you.
Thanks, Paul, and good morning, everyone, and thanks very much for joining the call. I'm Peter Duffy, CEO of Money Supermarket Group. And this morning, I'm also joined by Silla Grimble, Our CFO, hopefully, you've had a chance to read our 2 releases this morning. And given this is an unscheduled call, which we wouldn't typically do for a quarter, We're very grateful for you making the time for us this morning. Now primarily, we want to talk about the very exciting Quidco acquisition we announced this morning I'll have this going to move the group forward.
But in addition, I'll also take the opportunity to talk briefly about our Q3 results. So in terms of Q3, we reported 3 main points. Firstly, revenue down 10% for the quarter, which I'll talk more about in a minute. Secondly, good progress in delivering our strategy, particularly around data and efficient acquisition, but also As a result, around margin. And then thirdly, we confirmed that we expect to meet market expectations for EBITDA for the year.
So specifically on revenue. We are pleased with the performance in Money, where borrowing and banking channels continue to recover, and we are now close 2019 revenue level. Particularly towards the end of the quarter, we saw signs of recovery in travel, And we also completed the combination of TSN and Ice Lolly at the start of September. However, this was offset by Home Services and Disappointingly, Insurance. Home Services, and I'm talking about Energy here, has seen unprecedented conditions through the dramatic increase in wholesale prices.
These have risen significantly through the year and then very sharply in September, meaning that despite the movements in the price cap, Customer savings were severely challenged, going from sometimes negative to frequently negative to the point where almost no switchable tariffs are available. And realistically, we don't expect energy switching to come back this year. Now we flagged at interims The competition in insurance was intensifying and that we were lapping a strong 2020. But still, I want to see a stronger performance here. We are improving margin across our core insurance channels, but I want to be clear that we are extremely focused on the top line.
New television advertising launched at the start of September, which is clearer, simpler and more focused on savings, and it highlights car insurance specifically. And with improved CRM and PPC rolling out later this month as well. So let's pick up specifics in the Q and A. And I'll now turn to the acquisition of QuickCo, which we announced today for a total consideration of £101,000,000 Now many of you will know Quidco, which is the U. K.
2nd largest cashback site. It offers customers the opportunity to save on purchases with 4,500 merchants, including retail travel and switching services. Now we already have in the group We have Money Saving Expert, a publishing led whole of market offer that engages through its own proprietary content. We have Money Supermarket, a classic price comparison website that we are evolving into a much more personalized experience. We then have Decision Tech, which offers our services to 3rd parties, and we have ICE Travel Group focusing squarely on the holiday market.
So to this unique portfolio, we now add a new and differentiated savings proposition in the form of Quidco. Let me draw out 3 components of the deal rationale. Firstly, we get to enter at scale a new part of the customer savings market, the cashback market that is growing, profitable and with significant headroom. Quidco is the 2nd largest cashback site in the U. K.
With a popular membership model and close to 1,000,000 transacting customers in the last year, And we think we can improve that further. It covers a far broader range of categories than just financial and household services, Mostly retail, but in a normal year, travel as well. Now secondly, Quidco will benefit from the group's capabilities. We will leverage our tech, our data, our marketing expertise to improve the QuickCo offering. And as we continue to expand our B2B white label services will be able to deploy those into QuickCo as well as into our other brands.
And thirdly and sort of in turn, the group will benefit from QuickCo's capabilities. QuickCo brings a broad and leading cashback offer as well as the related deals flow and membership program. And this is a highly engaging package. Quico users Transacted 11x on average last year. That's far more than we see in traditional price comparison.
And as with the successful acquisition of DecisionTech in 2018, over time, we will expand, align, deploy elements of the QuickPay model So as I said, this is an exciting day for the group. There is, of course, the addition of Quidco, But this also accelerates us towards being a true portfolio and platform business. A platform of strong common capabilities, Data, marketing, price comparison, etcetera, all supporting a portfolio of known and distinct brands. Now a number of brands we support are through DT. But in addition to Weisz Travel Group, we now have 3 Leading in house consumer brands, MoneySuperMarket, Money Saving Expert and I'm delighted to say, Quidco.
So with that, we'll open the floor and Sila and I will take your questions. First question please.
Thank you. The first question is from the line of Joe Barnett Lamb from Credit Suisse. You may ask your question.
Excellent. Thank you very much for taking my questions. Firstly, just one on Q3 and then on to Quidco. Within Q3, so I guess Within Insurance, you've had competition in softening markets. At the same time, you're clearly delivering strongly on margins.
I guess, Are you losing market share in insurance? And if so, in addressing that issue, do you believe you'll need to give back the margin Gains that you have acquired. I mean, you alluded to some of the things you're doing, but just interested if you could talk about that balance a bit more specifically, please, Peter. Then on to QuickCo. I have many questions, but I will limit it to 2 here and see if I get another slot later.
Can you give some more detail around performance in recent years, particularly the impact that COVID has had on the business over the last few years. I think you mentioned travel. And then sort of building off that, what your views are on growth going forward? And then finally, You sort of say that it's the number 2 player. I believe the number 1 player is TopCashback.
Could you talk a little bit about how the competitive dynamics between Quidco and TopCashback have trended in recent Yes. Are QuickGo sort of gaining or losing market share? How do you see that dynamic? Thank you.
Great. Thanks, Joe. I'll take the first question on Q3 Insurance, I'll pass the 23 on to Cilla. So on Q3, look, we We want to be better on the top line when it comes to insurance. So we are doing well in terms of margin.
We are now confident that We are buying our PTC up to the point where marginal revenue equals marginal cost, which is something that we have always said we want to do, but we can now Be sure that it's happening in practice. We need to be better at driving the top line. So fundamentally, that's what the new advertising is about. That's why we're putting it front and center. We have our CRM program literally rolling out as we speak, which will be recontacting customers who spoke with us last year.
We've got a big focus on SEO as well. So to be really clear, I want us to do better on the top line as well as on the margin. Your question is, does that then come at the cost of margin? That's not what we want to happen. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to say you're going to have to bear with us as we begin to work through this.
But that is it's the plan to actually deliver Top line and margin improvement, I can be very clear about that. Silvia, do you want to pick up on the next two questions?
Sure. So in financials in particular, I think your question really is going to relate to revenue. And remember, revenue for the Quidco model sort of splits into 2 broad buckets. So the first is commission for sales generation, And most of that is then passed back across to users in the form of cash back. And then the second bucket is think about it as sort of marketing fees, so placement fees on-site and the like.
So the 2nd bucket is quite relatively easy to give you clarity on, and that's tracked at about £13,000,000 or so Very consistently over the last few years. The other bucket is the one which has been impacted more by what's been happening in travel as a result of the pandemic. So again, kind of thinking is to and Peter touched on it, but there are 3 broad categories that people shop within. There's retail, there's travel and there's financial services. And clearly, travel has been that one that has been impacted.
The Quizco financial year runs through to July, and I'm sure some of you have already been on company's house, so you'll have the numbers already. But 2019, so to July 2019 was 76%. Then clearly, they got the impact of COVID in the next financial year to 68% and then the numbers that you've seen in the announcement this morning. So As with our travel business, and we've been saying we're seeing some green shoots, and my expectation is that, that would also flow back through into cash And cashback slides in general. So hopefully, that answers the question in relation to financials, Jovi.
I'm sure you'll come back if not. And then in terms of
Do you mind if I follow-up on that just while I have you on that topic? Sure. So between those two buckets, you've got commissions on sales, which seems like it's sort of the more Volatile side, and that's where the travel segment has been impacted materially. The other side, you've got the marketing fees. I think you said EUR 13,000,000 of marketing fees, It's been broadly stable over the last couple of years.
When we think about the profit contribution of commission on sales versus marketing fees, Should we assume that the lion's share of Quidco Group profits come from marketing fees rather than commission on sales?
So there are 4 there is sort of let's break down to 3 key elements, Joe. So there is the marketing fees, exactly as you're describing. There are so within the sales commission, there are sums which are directly linked to customer activity, and then there'll be some merchant partners They want to deliver a particular aim. And in order to deliver that particular aim together with Quidco, they'll agree a slightly different And therefore, there'll be some retention in relation to that. And then the other element is the membership fee.
So Peter has Touched on that. But you're correct. If you'll see when you see the gross margin, the lion's share of cost of sales is The pass back of cash back to users, and so you can see that dynamic in terms of that Sales commission versus the cost of sales, and that gives you your line share points.
And then I think we've got the 3rd question, which was about Quick Host Bank competitors.
So main the 2 main cash back sites in the UK, so Quidco and Topcashback. Quidco is, As we were describing the Challenger Brands, and I'm sure Peter will come on to that a bit later, the top cash back is about 30% larger than Quidco, and that's sort of It's been the case for a few years.
And there are 2 other very small investors, but really, the market It involves top cashback and QuickCo. Thanks, Jay.
All right. We will take our next question. It's from Andrew Ross from Barclays. You may ask
Question. Great. Good morning all. First one, just to follow-up on Joe's question there on the split of gross profit. Just clarify exactly how it breaks out between marketing fees, commission income and membership fees.
And we're in that €21,000,000 I'm not sure I fully understood that. That's the first one. The second one is just to break out the cost base in a bit more detail between Gross profit and EBITDA and in particular to understand how much marketing there is and how Quidco goes about acquiring its customer base? And then the third one is on the group balance sheet. I guess this will take you to a bit under one times levered.
How should we think about that from here? Is the policy now to kind of trend back towards a net cash position? Or are you comfortable Perhaps running with a bit more leverage on a more permanent basis. Thank you.
Great. Thanks. So can you pick all 3 of those up?
Sure. So I mean, I'm not going to really split down the gross margin, Andrew, beyond what I have done, so as I said, about $30,000,000 of marketing base fees, and you can see that, that Will flow through basically directly into gross profit. The other elements, although the point that I touched on in relation to the additional commissioned to hit particular targets that the merchant wants to and is using Quidco to achieve. And then to the extent to which Cash back is not claimed by users over a period of time, then that gets taken through to the P and L in the form of breakage. So that's The only sort of disclosure of gross profit that I'll give at this stage.
I'm jumping around a bit. Someone will remind me of the second Sorry. In terms of leverage, so yes, following the deal and using the 101 headline, we're about 0.8 Times in terms of pro form a EBITDA, you'll have seen within the acquisition notes that we're funding the deal Through a combination of the RCF and an amortizing term loan, that's got a 3 year term on it, so 2020, 60 in terms of the repayment profile Percentages there within that term loan. We have always been clear, I think, in terms of the total capital allocation. So organic Funding organic growth, then the Progressive Board, then M and A and then returns.
And I think we've always been clear that it's a sort of business in terms of the cash flow, and you've seen it even during the pandemic that we could hold a bit of leverage on balance sheet quite comfortably. We'll continue to follow that capital allocation policy, and I would be comfortable with a bit of leverage on balance sheet. I'm sorry, the final question sorry, the second question, Andrew, could you remind me?
It's basically cost base between, Yes, gross profit and EBITDA and the marketing and how it acquires customers.
Okay. So mainly, the cost base is people related. So So think people in tech, at the moment, little sort of above the line marketing spend. They're not massively active in PPC. It's very sort of successful retention, as we talked about in terms of that 11 times a year usage and a very successful refer a friend marketing campaign.
But in general, in terms of the overarching theme on the acquisition, We would point this towards being a revenue enhancing acquisition rather than sort of cost synergy based one.
Thanks very much.
Our next question is from Malcolm Morgan from Piel Hunt, your line is now open.
Good morning. If I go into the QuickCo website already, I see There is an opportunity to compare, save and get cash back, so compare car insurance. And I also see that MoneySupermarket Car Insurance Is one of the listed financial and insurance partners. Can you give me some guidance on sort of, A, The relative size of Financial Services within Quidco's revenue stream as it stands. Secondly, The nature of your existing relationship with them, I mean, in terms of what is one person's revenue, one person's cost base.
And so the potential for either cannibalization or you substituting the sort of comparison services that are offered on that Quidco On the Quidco website. So I just want to understand the existing sort of intricate relationship you have with Quidco.
Great. Thanks, Malcolm. So do you want to take the first one? I'll take the third one on The middle one is just about affiliate deals. I'll just do that
as well. Do you want
to just take start with Malcolm's first question?
So the first part was sort of how does the relationship work today, Malcolm?
No, that was the second.
So I'm trying to understand the mix of what proportion of Quidco's revenues are Financial Services based?
Yes. So sorry, so yes, so there are 3 broad buckets. There's retail, Financial Services and Travel. And so clearly, the last year, as we've touched on already, travel was depressed off the back of COVID. From a transaction perspective, as in in terms of volume, retail is by far the To steal, J.
S. Frey, the lion's share of those transactions, it's not quite so sort of Due towards retail when we're looking at value, Malcolm, but I wouldn't want to share that breakdown at this stage.
And then Malcolm, money should market is just on there at the moment as an affiliate. So just in the way that, that would And then in terms of the question of cannibalization, what you've got, I think, really is a very discrete proposition in QuickCo that is something different Money Supermarket. Money Supermarket is being developed out to something which will be much more personalized, much more data led. QuickCo is a proposition that enables customers Across a very broad range of categories, including home services, including financial services, essentially. So we don't see these things as necessarily cannibalizing each other.
They are approaching very different parts of the market as Money saving expert and money supermarket approach the market in different ways, advice versus a more transactionally kind of led model. So it isn't that we see one potentially moving into the territory of the other. It just gives the group broader scope across a range of customers who we, To be frank, I'm touching today in the way that we think this is going to enable us to touch tomorrow. Hello? Okay.
It's our host there. Yes.
Our next question is from the line of Sharon Donnelly from Liberum.
Thank you. It's Ciaran Donnelly, but close. I wonder could you just quickly run us through the drivers of the softness in car and home insurance markets? Just second question, you highlighted the high year on year gross margin in Insurance. Can you just give us some color around the difference In the H1 margin versus the Q3 margin?
And also, if you could give us an indication of how gross margin performance has been for the group for the 1st 9 months? And then finally, just within the cash back market, if you could give us an indication of how it's been growing pre COVID And how Quidco has kind of grown relative to the market size? Thanks.
Okay. So do you want to pick up the Q3 questions?
Sure. So Karl and Haines, let me step back a bit just on insurance in total. So Negative 10% for the quarter. Remember, as ever, the sum of Thorpe Park, so travel, we've given quite clear guidance on. One thing to remember, we talked to interims on life insurance, they're the 3rd largest of our insurance channels, about how we've pulled away from providing vouchering.
And so that does impact that mix between gross margin and revenue. So it results in lower revenue, but we're very pleased with our performance in terms of Life Gross margin in Q3, and that is up year on year. So that sort of deals with most of the rest of insurance. Turning now to kind of car and home. So Remember that there's a bit of a change in comp.
So Q2 2020, very soft as a result of pandemic. Q3, very strong last year, Particularly in car as a result of some pent up demand. And we sort of mentioned some of that at the interim. The other thing that we mentioned at interims was, Yes, we're doing lots of great work in terms of our efficient acquisitions. But what we have seen at that stage, sort of most of the way through July is the auctions popping up quite significantly, and that continued to play out through the quarter.
So the auctions were particularly competitive. We remained very disciplined in relation are margin targets. And so naturally, that does play out a bit. Peter mentioned in his opening remarks, we want to do From a revenue perspective, remember, we launched our new ad campaign in September, we think much more relevant to the category, focused on car insurance in that sort of first launch campaign. Inevitably, you get a bit of a mix of your spend when you know you're going to relaunch, So we were spending a little bit less in the runoff.
And then the other things I'd point to on the go forward are moving Car and Home onto the new CRM platform towards the end of Q3 and us continuing to deploy further smarts within the way that we're bidding. But Yes. As ever, it will remain a bit sort of put and take, if you like, on the business that the auctions versus what we're doing in terms of Svelte Health. So that's insurance, Kieran. Then turning briefly to margin.
I'm not really going to give you any more color than we've given within the statement. So really just to refer you back to what we said at the interim. So remember, at that point in time, just over 300 basis points improvement, About 2 thirds of that was as a result of efficient acquisition, some of the points that I've raised already in relation to life insurance And then what we were doing in relation to the Car and Home, in particular, in terms of Pave acquisition, that's continued to play out into Q3. We said the majority of the rest was as a result of money conversion continuing to improve, and we've highlighted in the statement Morning that we're continuing to see that improve. So those things that were there at the first half has kind of persisted into Q3.
Another couple of things which we flagged, remember, in the margin structure. So we lost the contract in B2B, and we said that, that was going to be Upside is sort of broadly 2 percentage points in a half, 1 percentage point in a year as a result of losing that. Then there were some other mix points, and then I will suffer margin. Mix points, remember, with lower energy, particularly lower Cheap Energy Club Means a higher margin for the group because we don't give the cash back because we're not making those sales. And the only other point was we sort of flagged when travel returns, We expected that to be a margin headwind, Travel Insurance this is.
And actually, the way that it's currently playing out, and it's really early days, but currently playing out, It's not a margin headwind at the moment.
Great. Thanks, Stella. And in terms of your question on The cashback market pre COVID, it was growing by about 12% to 15% before the pandemic. And as Silas pointed out, by volume, this is Yes, a very retail led business. But by value, it's much more balanced between travel, between Services Financial Services and Retail.
So you can see the impact kind of coming through as a consequence of the period of pandemic. But before that, it was Double digit
growth. So sorry, just to be clear. So Quidco, Was it growing ahead of the market or
So you were asking for the cash back market. The cash back market really because We've said it's sort of 2 really big players and then a couple of really small ones. So if we look at the combination of those two Brands together, the market was growing at about 12% to 15%. Now we think we can help here a lot. We've already observed that There isn't a huge announcement above the line.
It's a very, very successful member get member scheme. It's a founder led business at the moment And has had no external finance. So it's been led very, very well. But I think growth is one of the areas where Our group can begin to help and support us in a way that, hasn't been possible within the constraints that Quico operated in historically.
Okay, great. Thanks.
Yes, the next question is from the line of Brody Barrett from Stifel.
Good morning, everyone. You've actually addressed a lot of my questions, but just a couple remaining. So firstly, just on QuickCo, I mean, you've given us a sense of the revenue contribution for Financial Services and Retail. Are you able to let us know where travel was in 2019, so we can sort of understand what the normalized contribution might be and to that business. That's the first question.
And second question, just on the money segment. Obviously, we're seeing a nice rebound there from last year. Can you maybe just give us some context around the product environment at the moment and any views you might have on the potential impact of interest rate Changes? And then just finally on the apps and what you're doing on the retention side of the business, I wondered if you wouldn't mind updating as to any progress that you're seeing there. Thank you.
Great. Thanks very much. So do you want to do revenue contribution and money segments? And I'll come back on that.
So Brian, I'm not going to give you any more than Preet has already given in terms of those broad measures. I think the important thing to bear in mind just in terms of the profit shape is that most of that New revenue will be passed back to users in terms of commission in terms of cash back. So it will have yes, we'll get a rebound in Revenue, but it will be a much less significant rebound in profits off the back of that. As I said, The sales based marketing fees have been held up really well, been very consistent across the years from 2019 through 2021. On money, it's really been sort of further continuation of the themes that we shared at interim.
So we've been very pleased with what we've In conversion, I'm pleased in terms of what we've seen in terms of both providers and products coming back on panel. And I think we shared at the interims, we were pretty much close Back to pre pandemic levels, search volumes are still a bit lower year on year, and that's where If we want to kind of move forward further, we would like those search volumes to improve. Leads me nicely onto your question on interest rates. So I think what we've seen in the past is that across a number of different When there is noise, the noise in and of itself can often generate traffic. So that can be some upside to us, particularly in the context of a vertical, which is Skewed a little bit towards MSE, and obviously, the more you can talk about things from an editorial perspective, the better.
It will obviously help in terms of Savings to the extent to which we can get a headline rate, which sort of feels more meaningful to people as we go forward. And finally, just when we've looked at banking, in particular, in the quarter and calling out some improvement there, to date, that's mainly being current So there hasn't been any benefits in relation to expectations of interest rates increases in savings. Peter, I'll hand you back hand back to you.
Great. Actually, Brady, if I can start with the Quico app because Quico proposition has a really good ISA app, and it's a very good mix They have between the web based proposition and the app proposition. So I think that's very interesting. In terms of the overall group and our propositions in the app, It's something that we absolutely are thinking of. And we are beginning, obviously, with the data based approach to make sure that we can personalize the product and then we'll look at how that then becomes relevant certainly for MoneySupermarket, but we're also Looking for what a relevant app based solution for MoneySaving Expert would be.
I don't have any news for you specifically on either of those. It's far to say that it is Very much in our minds at the moment.
Thank you.
I wonder Investor Relations, Ian. Do we have anything on the website that we need to bring? Okay.
Yes. I was going to say, I mean, we've covered, I think, a lot of the website questions. One thing, to what extent do you envisage further acquisitions focused on plugging new services Into Money's data, marketing and tech platform, that's from Roddy Davidson.
Okay. I think that's a really helpful question. So there are 2 components to this deal that I think really excites us. 1 is, obviously, The QuickGo business in its own right, but secondly, how it accelerates our move to being a platform business. So essentially, what we mean by that is that we're looking at all the services that are currently offered across the group and identifying how we can deliver that once And deliver that then in meaningfully different ways into each of the brands where that begins to make sense for those brands.
The best example of that, I guess, would be home services, where we have moved Money Supermarket onto the DecisionTech platform. Money Saving Expert will be moved onto that within the next few months in entirety. And that means that those services not only can support the group brands, but also then can go into our B2B offering. We'll be looking to do that more broadly, which will be the way that we facilitate Quidco being able to That's group capability. And in turn, that will begin to open up B2B opportunity at relatively low and incremental cost for us.
What we've always said about M and A is that we Horizon and Scam, we're on the lookout for propositions, which we don't currently have in the portfolio. And I don't think you could get A better example than Quidco for that really, where it makes sense for us to add something in that we don't do, that we can't build ourselves at the scale that we would need to be credible within that market. So we always look for groups of customers who we're not currently serving, Capabilities that we don't currently have within the group, propositions which we're unable to quickly and efficiently to develop ourselves. So just to say that we are always kind of live to what the market is doing, and we will only do Things that are sensible for our shareholders. Ian, any more questions from the website?
Not from the website, but I think we have a couple more on the line. So maybe operator, you could still go back to that.
We still have two questions on the queue. It's from Joe Barnetlove again. You may ask your question.
Tremendous. Just one quick follow-up from me. You sort of mentioned that it wasn't really driven by cost sort of cost synergy story. Can you confirm that you are not expecting any cost synergies? And related to that, should we expect any integration costs?
I don't think there's any mention in the release. Perhaps if there aren't cost synergies, there aren't integration costs. But if you could just clarify on that, that would be great. Thank you.
Yes. We can clarify on both shows. So please don't build in any significant cost synergies, and we're not expecting any significant integration costs beyond what's already in budget. Philip, do you want to add to anything to that?
Yes. The only thing in the acquisition notes, Jo, you'll have seen we've guided to $1,000,000 this year and €500,000 next year is effectively a sort of deal related and one off costs. But otherwise, yes, completely agree with what Peter is saying.
Thank you.
Operator, I think I have another question.
Yes, the next one, it's from Malcolm Morgan. Thank you.
Hello. Again, sorry, I put myself on mute, as I've asked these earlier. Two questions, one very specific and one general. Can you just say how you intend to disclose and report on Quidco going forward? Will it be Simply absorbed into the existing structure, will we see the sort of evolution of gross margin Separately broken out.
So any guidance on what we should be expecting in terms of reporting? That's number 1. Secondly, I suspect we can all guess what the answer will be to this one, but you are silent on the outlook for the energy marketplace, Specifically looking into the first half of next year, but any insights or any thoughts you might be able to give on the potential evolution of that energy marketplace, whether it's Existential risk or a brilliant opportunity or quite how you're thinking about that first half of next year, which I think is probably ultimately going to be The decisive half for the industry would be really helpful. Sure. Yes.
Let me go on energy, and then I'll hand over to Sila on reporting. So look, what we're seeing in the energy market is fundamental, but I don't think Africa has made change. So what we're seeing is Clearly, a reduction in providers in the market. We are anticipating that we will get to a We still do have a significant number of providers in the market that is more akin to what we see in the other categories where we operate. So If you take broadband, for example, we can have a dozen 15 providers and have very, very competitive markets.
And to be frank, that's how energy actually did work Kind of if you go back kind of 10 years in terms of where we are. So what's clear is that a number of providers are going out of business. We will have a The customer will have a smaller range to begin to choose from, but we fully anticipate that the market will be highly competitive as and when that begins to return. When that does begin to return, obviously, we don't have the price cap rise until April, and we have to have a look at where wholesale energy Prices are, so we're not anticipating that that's going to be recovering anytime soon. But as and when that does happen, I think it's going to be really interesting because everything we're hearing is that consumer wallet is going to be under pressure.
We're hearing about inflation. We're hearing About interest rate rises, they will come through a winter when if you whilst protected by the price cap, Essentially, if you have been moved, you've been moved on to a provider that wouldn't have been your first choice. And potentially, your energy costs are Suppressed by a price cap, which will be going up by a significant amount. What I'm trying to say there is the consumer will be very, very focused on the price they're paying for energy. So we fully anticipate competitive market will come back.
We fully anticipate that we will be well set up to actually begin to support the customer and what we do best, Which is helping to save money, and we anticipate that they're going to be wanting to do that in significant volumes as and when deals come back onto the market. Silla, do you want to pick up anything else you want to say on top of that for Energy, but also how we're going to do disclosure and reporting?
I think nothing further to build from Energy. But in terms of reporting, Malcolm, it will be a separate segment, and you'll get The same level of disclosure as we've got the new disclosure in relation to profit contribution.
Great. Any more questions, operator?
There are no further questions on the queue now.
Okay. Well, listen, thank you very much, everybody, for your time. As I say, it was unscheduled. So we're very grateful for you making a space in your diaries for us, And we look forward to catching up with you very shortly. With that, we will end the call.
Thanks very much, everyone.
Thank you and that concludes our conference for today. You may all disconnect. Thank you all for participating.