Rio Tinto Group (LON:RIO)
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Apr 28, 2026, 5:15 PM GMT
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Earnings Call: H1 2018

Aug 1, 2018

Speaker 1

Morning, everybody. Welcome to our 2018 interim results. If I could ask you to put your phones on to silent. And just briefly, health and safety. The Besfire exit is back through the door.

You came just to the right. And then you turn left on to through Northampton Street for the muster point. There is no alarm set no test alarm set for this morning, but you'll be told if we need to evacuate. With that, I will hand over to J. S.

Thank you.

Speaker 2

Thank you, John. Good morning, all, and welcome to our results presentation. Our strategy is working, is delivering. Rio Tinto has once again delivered strong results with superior shareholder returns. We have real momentum and I'm absolutely delighted to report that we continue to deliver on our promises.

We maximize cash generation through our value over volume approach, delivering $9,200,000,000 of EBITDA with an EBITDA margin of 43%. We strengthened our portfolio with $5,000,000 of announced divestment. We invested $1,400,000,000 in high return growth. We generated around $300,000,000 of free cash flow through our mine to market productivity. And most importantly, we've announced superior cash returns of $7,200,000,000 including an interim dividend of 2.2 dollars a $1,000,000,000 top up to our current buyback programs and the return of $4,000,000,000 to our shareholders from disposals proceeds.

The precise timing and form to be announced shortly. We are proud of those results, but rest assured we will not become complacent. Our aim is simple, to continue to deliver superior returns over the short, medium and long term. Now I will take you through the highlights. In the first half, we continue to deliver robust financial performance to allocate capital with discipline and to position the company for the long term.

Let me take each of these in turn. We delivered net cash from operating activities of $5,200,000,000 and free cash flow of $2,900,000,000 The conditions were broadly positive. Our cash generation is underpinned by strong operational performance and results, our new mine to market activities and divestments to strengthen our portfolio. Our success in these areas drove a strong cash flow, which was a great effort during a period of increasing inflationary pressure. Turning to capital allocation.

As I mentioned today, we announced a record interim dividend and a top up to our existing buyback programs. We also continue to improve our world class portfolio and non zinc divestments for a total of $5,000,000,000 in the first half of this year. Overnight, we closed the sale of our remaining Queensland SCO assets for around $4,000,000,000 The post tax proceeds from our divestment will be returned to our shareholders. Our strong balance sheet with a net debt of $5,000,000,000 position us well for the future so we can deal with ongoing economic volatility, invest in high value growth and retain the optionality around Smart M and A. In other words, we have the flexibility to maximize performance and take advantage of any new opportunities that may arise.

This year, we have also progressed our growth options. The silvergrass iron ore mine is ramping up successfully and 3 weeks ago, Autohall completed its first loaded run, unlocking capacity and flexibility in our world class annual business. Ameren is on track to ramp up in the first half of twenty nineteen. I know you took our underground is progressing well. Now let me turn to safety.

Safety is our number one priority at Rio Tinto. It has been a challenging start of the year. A colleague died in April while working on the demolition of furnace at SOREL CRISS in Canada. I joined the team on the ground after the tragedy and we are doing all we can to support the family and our colleagues. In July, a team member was certainly attacked while on security duty at our Richards Bay mineral site in South Africa.

We are fully cooperating with the local police. These are absolutely unacceptable and sad events, and we are working very hard to learn from them. Our ambition remains the same. We want all of our colleagues to return home safely at the end of each and every day. Turning now to our product groups.

Overall, they performed well. Our and our business achieved a strong first half performance with an EBITDA margin of 67%. The pressure from inflation was the utmost in our aluminum business so far. Despite this, the product group achieved an EBITDA margin of 35%. Copper and Diamonds achieved an EBITDA of $1,400,000,000 up 77% on the same period last year.

They also increased EBITDA margin from 40% to 45%. And despite operational challenges, Energy and Minerals achieved a 36% EBITDA margin. During the first half, we continue to sell non core assets, announcing $5,000,000,000 of divestments, achieving prices well above market expectations. We also signed a heads of agreement for the sale of our entire Grasberg interest for $3,500,000,000 The parties are now working towards signing definitive agreements in the second half of this year. Our long term success depends on having a portfolio of high quality assets, which achieve higher returns.

When we think about shaping our portfolio, we focus on the best assets in commodities with sound long term fundamentals. We will continue to optimize our portfolio and look to divest those assets that do not fit our strategy, further driving sector leading return on capital employed. Before I cover the outlook for the industry and future plan, let me hand over to Chris, who will take you through the detailed financials. Chris?

Speaker 3

Thanks, J. S. These are another strong set of results. Let's have a look at the numbers in more detail, starting with the commodities. In iron ore, benchmark 62% prices declined by 9% versus last year.

This was driven by slightly lower demand, stronger than usual first half seaborne supply and some destocking of inventory at the ports, mostly in the Q2. However, lower iron ore prices were offset by higher prices across the rest of the group. We saw increased demand for our seaborne bauxite and reasonable pricing over the period. The LME price for aluminum improved with an increase of 18%, reflecting strong demand and disruption in the sector, including the impact of tariffs in the U. S.

We've also continued to increase the proportion of value added products from 57% of our portfolio to 58%. These carry an average premium of about $2.22 per tonne. Copper prices in the first half of twenty eighteen were 20% higher than the first half of twenty seventeen, primarily as a result of strong demand from both China and the rest of the world. Chinese environmental policies also curtailed the importation of scrap, which created increased demand for concentrate and cathode. Copper products sold off in the last month or so as markets became concerned by the noise around potential trade wars.

For the first time, we're showing a waterfall slide for underlying EBITDA rather than underlying earnings. We think that underlying EBITDA is a better proxy for the cash performance of the group, which is something that we prefer to focus on. This metric has remained fairly flat compared to the same period last year, despite some of the headwinds that J. S. Has already mentioned.

As I've just discussed, pricing has been broadly positive across the commodities with higher pricing in most of our products, more than offsetting slightly lower iron ore prices. Overall, there was an improvement of $600,000,000 compared to the first half of last year. Price improvements during the period could have been about $200,000,000 higher for the group, but for the impact of legacy alumina contracts. These contracts are for the supply of just over 2,000,000 tonnes of alumina per year, and they're linked to the primary metal LME price, are ended into first up in 2,003. We're likely to see the same impact in the second half should prices stay high.

The impact of unfavorable exchange rates, energy costs and measured inflation have had a combined negative $400,000,000 impact in this period. This brings us to flexed underlying EBITDA of $9,200,000,000 In the first half of the year, increased productivity across the system assisted by better weather allowed higher iron ore shipments. And our copper division saw operations return to normal at Escondida, at the same time as we mined higher grades at Kennecott and improved the plant performance at OT. The strong performance of these divisions was offset by lower production in some of our aluminium operations. Overall, volume and mix generated $900,000,000 of additional underlying EBITDA.

During the period, we've seen input costs in both our aluminium and TiO2 businesses negatively impacted by about $300,000,000 Other cash costs have had a negative impact of $200,000,000 This includes additional exploration and evaluation activity as well as spend in information systems and technology and further investment to support the group's mine to market productivity program. These were partially offset by improvement in the iron ore cost base, further enhancing our productivity gains. One offs during the period have had a $400,000,000 negative impact to underlying EBITDA. Included in this number are the costs associated with the 2 month strike at IOC, disruptions in our titanium business and a power interruption at our Dunkirk smelter in France. One off costs were offset by the absence of the strike at Escondido last year and the inclusion of restructuring costs this year, which were previously taken below the line.

Overall, we've delivered underlying EBITDA of $9,200,000,000 which represents a margin of 43% across the company. The cost inflation that we're starting to see come through the industry makes our mine to market productivity program even more important in protecting our margins and maintaining our competitive position. We started to see cost increases in 2017, initially in the aluminium group. As you can see here, the index price of caustic, coke and pitch remain well above the first half of twenty seventeen. And as a bellwether for input costs, average oil prices rose approximately 28% to $68 a barrel during the first half.

We'll continue to fight against rising inflation across the business, and I'll now discuss how our productivity program has assisted in offsetting some of these increases and allowed us to keep our EBITDA margin broadly in line with the first half of 2017. By the end of 2017, we delivered $400,000,000 of additional free cash flow from our productivity program. To successfully deliver on our targeted $5,000,000,000 of cumulative additional free cash flow by 2021, we must ensure that all these benefits are sustained and embedded. In the first half of this year, we delivered total productivity improvements of $500,000,000 which included carrying forward the embedded savings made last year. Cost headwinds in the first half reduced this year's achievement by 200,000,000 dollars This brings the total cumulative contribution for the past 18 months to $700,000,000 The number shown on this slide are different from those in the variance waterfall as these are cumulative post tax cash impacts.

We continue to target total productivity gains of $1,100,000,000 for 20 172018 combined. Across the business, we are focusing on maximizing cash by improving both our operational and commercial outcomes. Since 2017 or the last 2 years, most 18 months, we've announced a total of $7,700,000,000 of divestments, including $5,000,000,000 pretax in 2018. This includes the sale of our European aluminium smelters, Esal and Dunkirk, along with our coking coal assets in Australia. Additionally, we've also signed a heads of agreement for the sale of our interest in Grasberg to Inaloom, Indonesia State Mining Company.

This is an important step forward, but there's still a couple of a number of conditions required. And at this stage, there's no certainty of a transaction. The sale of Winchester South completed during the first half and cash of $150,000,000 was received. There's a further $50,000,000 in about 12 months' time to come from that process. And today, we've announced the completion of Kestrel and Haile Creek transactions for $3,950,000,000 pretax.

We expect the remainder of these divestments to complete in the second half. I'll talk more about the intended use of those proceeds a little bit later. Disciplined capital allocation is at the core of everything we do. Having spent sustaining CapEx to ensure the integrity of the business. Our next call on cash is our dividends to shareholders.

We then have an iterative cycle of managing the balance sheet, pursuing value accretive growth options, including M and A and considering further returns. Our aim is to ensure that we're able to invest in value accretive growth through the cycle, maintain that strong balance sheet and continue to pay superior returns to our shareholders. So a quick look at how this has worked out over the last 12 months. This data combines the second half of last year with the 1st 6 months of this year. Over that period, we spent $2,300,000,000 on sustaining CapEx and $2,800,000,000 on our growth projects.

Over 50% of all cash received during the past 12 months was returned to shareholders. This included dividends of 5,200,000,000 dollars comprising the then record interim payment in September of 2017 and the record final dividend paid in April of 2018. $3,300,000,000 of share buybacks were also completed over this period. These cash returns represent just under half of all the combined returns from our entire peer group. If I get back now to the data for this half, capital spend was $2,400,000,000 34 percent higher than the same period last year.

Of this, dollars 1,000,000,000 related to sustaining our current operations and dollars 1,400,000,000 was spent on our compelling growth options. The Ameren project in North Queensland is on track for commissioning in the first half of 2019. During the first half of this year, we have transported the stacker and reclaimer to site and have almost completed the assembly of the ship loader. At Ayutolgoi, contractor numbers have almost reached their peak. And during the first half, the shaft five ventilation system was completed and that's now operational.

In iron ore, autohall is progressing well with around 65% of all train kilometres now completed in autonomous mode. 2 key autohall milestones were met in the first half, with final regulatory approval received in May. And a few weeks ago, we ran our 1st loaded fully autonomous journey. We remain on track, pardon the pun, to have full implementation of Autohall by the end of this year. That was a bit of a joke in there, but never mind.

We'll work back around to that. Group CapEx guidance of $5,500,000,000 in 2018 and around $6,000,000,000 in 2019 remains unchanged. For 2020, we're raising our guidance to around $6,500,000,000 This $0.5 billion increase partly reflects the timing of spending and additional capital required for some of the replacement production in the Pilbara and increased CapEx expected in that year on the Ayotolgoi power station. In each of these years, the expectation is that sustaining capital will be between $2,000,000,000 $2,500,000,000 In 2018 2019, we'll continue to spend CapEx at Ameren. At OT, we're spending around $1,000,000,000 in each year to develop the underground mine.

And from 2019, we'll also start spending CapEx on the power station. In the iron ore business, we'll need to spend around $3,000,000,000 on sustaining CapEx over the next 3 years. We'll also spend about $2,700,000,000 on replacement mines over the same period. And starting in 2019, we expect to see spend coming through for the Cadaudree mine. The increase that we're seeing in the Pilbara replacement mine spend is due to a combination of increased capital costs from revised scopes for some of the projects and the fact we're bringing forward some of our 2021 spend into 2020.

The feasibility study for Cadizra is ongoing. And yesterday, the Board approved $150,000,000 of early works funding for this project. One of the advantages of a strong balance sheet is the ability to invest in the business through the cycle and to drive future returns. At the end of 2017, we reduced our net debt to $3,800,000,000 a 60% reduction from the end of the previous year. And in February, we flagged some cash outflows.

These included a final tax payment of $1,200,000,000 for the Australian tax group for the full year of 2017, which was paid in June of this year. Adding the tax payment back creates adjusted net debt of about $5,000,000,000 at the end of last year. So the net debt remains relatively unchanged at $5,200,000,000 and this is after returning $4,700,000,000 of cash to shareholders during the first half. That $4,700,000,000 includes the payment of the final 2017 dividend in April of CAD3.2 billion and ongoing share buybacks in Rio Tinto Plc of $1,500,000,000 Gross debt has again been reduced, a reduction of $2,100,000,000 and this included a repurchase of $1,900,000,000 of bonds. There's a net interest paid of CAD100 1,000,000 arising from the repurchase of these bonds.

From the 1st January 2019, there are changes to accounting standards, including the treatment of leasing arrangements. These changes will require that the present value of operating leases are brought onto the balance sheet and included in the net debt. The exact outcome is still to be determined, but to give you a sense of quantum, undiscounted operating lease commitments disclosed in our annual report for the end of 2017 were $1,800,000,000 We'll further update our guidance on any impacts from these changes at the year end presentation. We believe that having a strong balance sheet is a major competitive advantage and is essential in a cyclical business. It provides us with what I like to talk about as the 3 Rs.

Some of you may have heard this before. But robustness, returns and readiness. Robustness against volatility in the commodity markets in which we operate, but also in the global macro and geopolitical space. Returns, our strong balance sheet provides an ability to make returns through the cycle. And the 3rd is a readiness to take advantage of opportunities as and when they arise.

Our strong balance sheet has enabled us to continue to invest in value accretive growth and to make sector leading returns to our shareholders. As I've already mentioned, during the first half of this year, we returned $4,700,000,000 to shareholders. We have today announced a further $3,200,000,000 of interim returns. This is made up of a record interim dividend of $1.27 per share or $2,200,000,000 which will be paid in September. In line with last year, the dividend represents 50% of year to date underlying earnings.

We've also allocated an additional $1,000,000,000 toward our existing share program share buyback program in Rio Tinto plc. Dollars 1,500,000,000 of share buybacks were completed in the first half from our existing program of $2,900,000,000 Since the period end, we've completed a further $200,000,000 This means that from today, we'll be buying back $2,200,000,000 between now and the end of February 2019, which is equal to just over $300,000,000 per month. During the first half, we've announced $5,000,000,000 of divestments from our coking coal assets in European aluminium smelters. We've now received $4,100,000,000 pretax proceeds from the disposal of our coking coal assets, Haile Creek and Valeria, Kestrel and Winchester South. The bulk of this was actually received overnight, pretty close timing.

On these proceeds, we expect a tax liability of Yesterday, the Board's approved that the post tax proceeds of $4,000,000,000 will be returned to shareholders and the decision on the form and timing will be made in the coming months. We have a strong track record demonstrating our clear commitment to delivering superior returns. With the running operations, committing capital expenditure, evaluating disposals or acquisitions, we've remained disciplined and focused on the value of every dollar. And with that, I'll hand back to J. S.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Chris. Let me now share some thoughts on the macro environment. The mining industry has 2 key drivers, GDP growth and global trade. Overall, the GDP outlook remains solid with positive growth indicators in most geographies. However, global trade is potentially a concern.

Focusing on China, the biggest market for the mining industry, we remain optimistic about the medium to long term. As expected, growth is slowing, but only modestly and we're still at 6.7% in Q2. Furthermore, the government is introducing measures to support domestic demand and increase liquidity, including fiscal stimulus, which should underpin growth. In addition, China's policy changes have had a significant and enduring impact on several industries, including the mining sector. Supply side reforms and pollution controls have resulted in capacity reductions, which are unprecedented.

This is particularly the case in steelmaking, the outcome of which is higher capacity utilization and improved profitability. The change in industry structure has also led to a shift in iron ore demand, which in turn has given rise to a significant premium for higher quality product. And that is absolutely good news for Rio Ginto. In aluminum, the impact of new policy changes will take more time. We do believe there will be a slowdown in capacity growth over the medium term and the rebalancing of supply over time where demand continues to be strong.

But it is not all plain selling. We are concerned about the return of inflation, which is impacting the entire industry, putting margins under pressure. Resource nationalism is not a new feature of the mining industry but there is no doubt that many stakeholders want a greater share of the wealth created by Minerals Development. There is also an increasing emphasis on how we operate and our impact on the world around us. This is why we believe our license to operate is a make or break for the industry.

Now turning to trade. Ongoing threats to global trade is potentially a concern. History shows fair trade and open markets are the best driver of growth and prosperity. We believe this will continue to be the case in the future. In these uncertain times, resilience is absolutely key.

That's why we are so focused on 4 key drivers. 1, driving performance. Our productivity drive will generate $1,500,000,000 of additional free cash flow per annum from 2021. 2, actively shaping our portfolio highlighted by our announcement this morning 3, growing in a very focused way and our current organic pipeline will deliver an average of 2% per annum over the next 5 years. And last but not least, item number 4, maintaining a strong balance sheet.

This is how we will continue to deliver superior returns for our shareholders in the short, medium and long term. Turning to growth. Our current growth projects are progressing well. On the broader growth outlook, we continue to evaluate exciting medium to long term opportunities across the entire portfolio. These include Resolution Copper in the U.

S, the Jadar lithium project in Serbia and potential expansions of our aluminum and bauxite businesses. Our world class asset in the Pilbara have significant potential for optimization and future capacity development. Yesterday, the Board approved around $150,000,000 $146,000,000 exactly, for early works and studies at the Cudadore mine. This will be our 1st fully autonomous mine. We also have an extensive pipeline of additional replacement and growth options in the pillar.

Oyu Tolgoi and Resolution are 2 of the largest copper projects in the industry, long life, low cost and close to our customers in China and in the U. S. Our Canadian aluminum smelters are in the 1st quarter. Long term, as demand grows, we will strengthen these assets through continued productivity gains and potentially brownfield expansions. These measures are already the greenest in the industry.

And the new technology joint venture between Rio Tinto, Alcoa and Apple to create carbon free smelting will mean an even more attractive product for consumers and a further reduction in operating cost. Across all communities, our projects sit at the bottom of the cost curve, which means they are well placed to deliver Tier 1 free cash flows. It won't surprise you to hear these opportunities will be looked at through our value over volume lens and only move forward if they offer the most attractive returns. And of course, we will keep a watching brief on M and A. Just to remind everybody, our strategy is clear and simple.

We will maintain our strong performance by executing our 4P strategy with excellence, which has underpinned our recent outperformance in some key areas. It's about portfolio, performance, people, partners. Portfolio is about world class assets. Performance is about operating and commercial excellence. People is about developing industry leading capabilities.

And partners is about long term relationship with our customers, suppliers, investors, governments and communities. Before I wrap up, let me say a few words about the man next to me. Well, he's on the other side, but he's over there. As you all know, this is Chris' last results presentation before he retires in September. I could not let today pass without thanking Chris for his outstanding contribution to Rio Tinto, both as a Board member since 2011 and as CFO since 2013.

He played a key role in strengthening the organization following a challenging period and has given me both great support and wise counsel. As well as his sense of humor, capital allocation discipline has been his signature and I'm here to tell you it will remain his legacy. Thank you, Chris for your hard work and wish you all the best. I would also like to welcome Jacob, our new CFO. He's in the back of the room, last row.

You can't hide Jacob. He comes to us with extensive experience in senior financial roles across Europe, Latin America and Asia, within and outside the resource sector. Jacob is with us here in London today. I look forward to sharing the platform with you at our end of year results in February. In closing, every decision we make at Rio Tinto will prioritize value over volume.

We have real momentum and plans to keep pushing for even better performance. We will continue to deliver on our promises as we have done in the first half with our strong EBITDA and cash performance, with a strengthened portfolio, with a strong balance sheet providing option for growth and most importantly with a strong commitment to deliver superior cash return to our shareholders. We do face challenges as any business in the 21st century does, but we have the right strategy, the right assets, the right team and we will focus on value. For us, it is all about delivering on our promises day in and day out. And then on this note, I will open a Q and A session.

So where is David? We start with the room here, and then come on, Jason. Yes, we need the mic. Yes, we need the mic, otherwise people are not here.

Speaker 4

It's Jason Perkler, Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

Speaker 2

Mike is working or not?

Speaker 4

Yes. He is

Speaker 2

working, yes. You have a question for Chris, I think.

Speaker 4

No. You mentioned the quality premiums being paid in iron ore right now.

Speaker 2

Could you talk

Speaker 4

a little bit about how the organization thinks about the sustainability of those premiums?

Speaker 5

Yes.

Speaker 4

And to what extent is that informing your view on bringing forward CapEx in iron ore to sustain that quality?

Speaker 2

All right. So you asked me the same question last year. Okay, also one of our colleagues did. So we believe that the shift between high grade and low grade in iron ore in China is becoming more and more structural, all right. We have the opportunity to meet with, again, with Chairman with the Chairman of Sasak a few months ago.

And there is no doubt that the restructuring of the steel industry is here to stay, that the push for environmental better performance is there as well. And therefore, they will continue to reduce capacity. That doesn't mean they will reduce production and you saw the latest stats on the production steel making is still production short. Is still increasing in China. And therefore, for them to continue to produce with a reduced capacity, you need higher grades.

So we believe that the spread, the difference, the discount, the premium code, whatever you want, between high grade and low grade is here to stay. That's the first point. The second point is, we are delivering to China the reference product, the Pilbara blend, all right? And today, we have despite everything you can hear about trade and so on and so forth, today, we don't have any issue in placing Opelbra blend in the marketplace in China, quite the opposite. People would ask for more of it.

So we are and we do this optimization on an annual basis, what should be the right production, the type of production we should have in the Pilbara and so on and so forth. So we go through this cycle. The next conversation will be in September to see how we position. But it takes remember the weather pillar is about 16 minutees, 1700 kilometers, 4 ports. It's a big system.

And what we have been focusing for last 2 years and we'll continue to work on it and we are working on it is to continue to increase the flexibility of the system and it takes a lot of time, all right. Auto haul and the announcement a few weeks ago is helping us in that domain. But what we want, the vision which we are implementing is we want to have a capable system that we can flex up and down to meet our customer in a better way. So that's what we're doing. We are progressing along this journey.

Now in terms of CapEx is the value of a volume question, which is always the same question is to say, if you bring CapEx forward, you need to make sure you have a return on your CapEx, keeping in mind that if you add too much volume in the marketplace at any point in time, you could have an impact on prices. And the metrics have not changed. Dollars 10 of price is worth $2,000,000,000 of free cash flow after tax for Rio Tinto. So we do this optimization every year. And at this point in time, we are comfortable with the guidance of $330,000,000 to $340,000,000 for this year.

We'll provide a new guidance at the end of this year. And then we have updated our guidance in terms of CapEx for the next 3 years where you see some slightly higher replacement CapEx for iron ore. So that's I can't tell you much more than that. I can give you only the principles on how we look at it. But at the end of the day for us, it's really about value.

It's really about how can we maximize the free cash flow yield of our system in the Pilbara. Keep in mind, for the medium to long term, we need to have a capable system, highly flexible and we want to be in control of this system. And I believe that what we have achieved this year, what the team has achieved this year is moving in the right direction. That's okay, Jason?

Speaker 6

It's Menno at Morgan Stanley. Just two questions, one for Chris and then one for you. Judging by the reaction of the shares this morning, considering that the company is returning $5,000,000,000 which is clearly 5% of market cap, It suggests that maybe some people are worried that Biotin was losing out on some profitable growth options. What would be your reaction to that statement? Do you think that's right?

Or do you think you're capturing everything that's out there? And secondly, Chris, on the cost, slightly boring, but central cost stepped up quite significantly to €560,000,000 this half. Is that the run rate we need to think of going forward? And if I turn that into your waterfall, the €200,000,000 headwinds post tax cash flow in the mine to market program, Is that a run rate for the second half?

Speaker 2

Or is

Speaker 6

it going to accelerate given the statements made on inflation?

Speaker 2

Go for the Costa, I'll do

Speaker 3

the Costa first. The okay, so we've got the addressing the minor market, the input headwinds. I think those they're persisting, but they're probably easing a little bit in terms of the second half. I think the but where we've seen that most pronounced was in the aluminum business. And I think if you look across to some of our competitors in aluminum, you'll see the same sort of story coming through there.

With regard to the central there's a series of things going on that are sort of placing the company in position to go forward. So we've been working on the operating model, and there's commensurate spend with that. We've had a program, what we call fix the basics in the IS and T and some of the shared service areas, which are there are limited time frame spend. So even the second half will be slower slightly slower than the first half was, but it's within this year type event. So you've got that.

There's about if I give you a bit of a breakdown on that, though, it's like that operating model and restructuring stuff is about $80,000,000 There's some work going into the establishment further establishment of the commercial center in Singapore and the IS and T fixes. Combined, and the majority of this is in the IS and T side, it's about $75,000,000 And then we've got a higher charge going through Central for insurance and pension costs. The insurance is something that we're taking through the Central rather than within the product groups at the moment. So that's a change this year that's slightly different, but that's about $40,000,000 in there. So that's the $200,000,000 give or take in that central cost.

I think the run rate in the second half will be lower than that going forward.

Speaker 2

All right. So I'm going back to the share question. I mean, the shares have been trading for a few hours, to state the obvious. I understand it's the middle of summer. There are very few volumes and so on and so forth.

And we've been around for 1 46 years. I mean, you don't expect us to run the company just to optimize the share price for the next 5 minutes. Do you agree with that? Certainly. Thank you very much.

All right. So I'm not sure I'm going to draw too many conclusions on back of the share price. What we have delivered today is exactly what we deliver against our commitment, which is to deliver superior value for our shareholders. I hope you agree that $7,200,000,000 of returns is pretty good. That comes on top of the nearly $10,000,000,000 of last year and so on and so on.

So we are clear about the commitment with the regulatory shareholders and I truly believe we're delivering against all commitments. So I'm not going to read too much about the share price over a few hours. No, I'm not going to read too much about this one to be honest. All right. Shall we take one question from the phone and then I'll come back to the floor?

Speaker 7

We will now take our first question from Paul Young from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 8

Hi, J. S. Hi, Chris. Jay, two questions for you actually. The first one is on the bauxite market.

I noticed a statement in the results about there being significant uncertainties around the direction of the books upmarket. That appears to be new. You had a decent increase in realized price during the half. But based on what you're seeing in Guinea and Guinea supply, has this changed your view on long run fundamentals and pricing? And second question, Jason, on Oyu Tolgoi, underground development seems to be progressing very well.

But I'm interested in the exact CapEx requirements of the power plant and the benefits of actually on the cost side and also your view on the current government study around this implementation of the investment agreement. Thanks, Joss.

Speaker 2

Okay. No worries. I'll share some of it with Chris. So on the bauxite, what we are highlighting is there are are more and more bauxite moving from Guinea back to China. And it's still early days.

And the old question, what we are writing here is to say there is a lot of We don't know going forward if the bauxite market will be priced on a cost plus or on commercial terms between Guinea and China. And that's the only thing we're highlighting. Now let's be clear is we have no doubt that the investment in Amron that should come on stream next year is a good investment, is a very good investment for us. It will be a world class asset. So as I said, high level of uncertainty, but the step that I'm going to make is true across all communities of Rio Tinto.

Our philosophy is the following at the end of the day, right? Is there are things you can control, there are things you cannot control. So let's focus on the controllable. And today, what is important is to focus on having the right cost structure, the right quality of product, the right relationship with the customers. So whatever market conditions we are in, whatever volatility in the marketplace, then we will continue to be profitable.

We'll continue to generate a lot of cash and we'll be able to do 2 things. 1 is to continue to invest for the long term, which is very important in the mining business and the second point is to reward our shareholders with superior returns. And I think what we have experienced or what we've disclosed today is a good example of it. So that's where we are on the books side. I know you Togo is you want to pick up the power stuff, Chris?

Speaker 3

Happy to.

Speaker 2

Yes, I'll go on for it. I think we'll be in the comment after.

Speaker 3

Okay. Paul, the OT Power plant is in the pre feasibility stage, which is and currently, there's a range of cost between 1.0, 1.5, basically. And the there's a lot of conversation going on with the government as we speak about the various options available to us for that development. And so if I give you a simple example, if the degree to which it meets European standards or local standards or other global standards can have a difference on the capital cost. So that's something that's got to be negotiated on the way through here.

And then once we get down to a stage where we've got a permitted proven path forward, that's when we'll come back and revise any cost estimates. But what we've got in our CapEx guidance and part of that increase in the 2020 year is actually an expectation that we previously had about $250,000,000 in that year. We think there'll be slightly higher spending in that year of 2020. That's part of that $500,000,000 of increase in that guidance we've given you this morning about CapEx. So it's still very much a live conversation and it's really still quite fluid.

And once we've got something further in that, we'll come back.

Speaker 2

Right. So the other question is around the agreement in Mongolia. I mean we have been very clear about the sanctity of these agreements. And no matter what they are, the IA, the ARSHA, the UDP and so on and so forth, discussions are underway with the government. There are multiple work streams.

Some of it have been triggered by the cabinet, the government. Some of them have been initiated by the Parliament. So discussions are underway. There has been a slowdown in terms of discussion during the summer because it's Nadam, which is a big summer festival. So they stop for a few weeks.

But the discussion will restart soon. They are restarting as we speak. But we have been very clear about the sanctity of the agreement. And I can tell you is, remember we are not alone on this one because we have on the back of the $4,400,000,000 of project finance that we put in place a few years ago, we got the World Bank, we've got all the main banks and all our interest, it doesn't matter if you see it on the government side, on the Rio Tinto side or the Tokyo side is, our interest is to unlock the value of this absolutely world class deposit that will be producing copper and gold for the next 100 years. And the benefits we're already providing to Mongolia is significant.

14,000 people working on-site, 9 out of 10 being Mongolian nationals. If you look at the integrated supply chain that we have, around 40,000 people today, remember there are only 3,000,000 people in Mongolia just to put in a reference, 40,000 people across the supply chain. We've placed $1,500,000,000 of local appointment last year and so on and so forth. So our interest, our joint interest is to unlock this value and that's what we're working on it. Now my personal experience over the last 5 years is lots of emotion, lots of drama, lots of things in the press.

But at the end of the day, it's common sense prevails. And if I even step further, Rio has been around for 145 years, 146 years and that's what our job is about is to operate in challenging jurisdiction, to find a way to do it and to unlock value for a short, medium and long term. So all in all, Paul, discussion underway. I'm sure there will be further announcement, including potentially a power station in the second half of this year. If I can take another question from the phone and then

Speaker 3

I'll come back.

Speaker 8

Thanks for coming.

Speaker 2

David? There is no answer here.

Speaker 7

We will now take our next question from Hayden Bairstow from Macquarie.

Speaker 9

Thanks, Jay. Just a couple for me, one probably for Chris, I guess. On just cash flow versus EBITDA, I mean, that seems to have been in a bit of a decline in the last few years despite revenue EBITDA being pretty flat. Just wondering if there's anything in that? Or is it just tax payments and other sort of variability in the business?

And J. S, just a question on the tariffs out of Canada into the U. S, just how that's impacting the business? Are the premiums adjusting enough to cover that? Or is that becoming a bigger issue for you?

Thanks.

Speaker 2

Yes. I'll pick up the question on the tariff and aluminum. Just to set the scene is the bulk of the aluminum or should I say aluminum produced in Canada is sold in the U. S. And we are supplying 1 third of all the aluminum consumed in the U.

S, all right. So we're clearly watching this whole trade situation, potentially trade situation between the U. S. And Canada very, very carefully. Hence, how many, 4 trips, 5 trips to the U.

S. And Canada this year. Today, we don't have any problem whatsoever. Remember, you need to look at it through the lens of consumer in the U. S.

If you're a consumer in the U. S, you want to have access to a low cost, reliable source of aluminum. You could argue some of them wants to have a green access to sources, to have access to a green aluminium as well. And the best aluminium we can think of is coming from most measures in Canada. I mean they are not in the Q1 of the cost curve.

They are in the 1st D side of the cost curve. They are hydro based. And then on top of it, when you think of the joint venture we signed with Alcoa and Apple to develop the inner thunder technology, we are few years away from having a purely green product there. So at the end of the day, from a consumer standpoint in the U. S, I've got no doubt because the supply chain is so integrated between the U.

S. And Canada that there will be that common sense will prevail. Now back to your question about the premium and the duties and so on and so forth, the way the pricing formula works is we don't have any material impact for us at this point in time. And you saw it in the margins that were presented in the presentation today. The impact that we had in aluminum, which started last year and Chris did refer a few times in his speech, is about the inflation, which has nothing to do.

So from a purely trade standpoint today, the whole situation in relation to NAFTA between the U. S. And Canada had no material impact on our business at all. Do you want to pick up the other one?

Speaker 3

Yes. On the cash flow, I think probably it's always a bit hard to sort of talk about where people are versus their expectations because we can't get inside ahead of everybody's expectation. But what we have observed, I guess, there's slightly higher CapEx. There's increasing working capital, trade working capital. And about half of that is good, but it's because it's higher prices and so on and receivables and the like.

But probably the biggest single difference that some people have fully understood what we're saying at the full year and some haven't is the timing of that tax payment of $1,200,000,000 to the Australian jurisdiction that actually pertained to 2017. It's a good outcome for us because we had hung on to the cash for an extra 6 months in our own balance sheet. So the net debt at the end of last year, if you recall the presentation, we talked about 3.8 and we pro form a'd it for that tax payment was in the numbers. So that would have taken us to 5,000,000,000 at the end of last year. And if you go to this year with $5,200,000,000 So there's I think all that, we've got a strong bias on cash generation.

I think we've got still need some more detailed attention on the working capital to make sure our guys don't relax on that. Some of it's good because it's price related in our favor, but our number of average working days has gone up a couple of days. So that's work that we've got to get the businesses focused on.

Speaker 2

So we go back to the room. 1 in the front, and then I'll come back to you, Paul.

Speaker 10

Dominic McCain, JPMorgan. Just three quick questions. On aluminum costs, just maybe push a bit further on to H1 versus H1 'seventeen performance. You saw a roughly 30% increase in unit costs driven by raw materials. How should we think about second half this year?

Do you think there's capacity to keep that flat at best? Or do you think we should be thinking about raw material cost increases in Primary Metal? Then on Grasberg, obviously, reported $3,500,000,000 potential exit. Should we expect any tax payable on that amount in the CGT? And then final question, diamonds.

So did about $100,000,000 of EBITDA in diamonds in H1, roughly $50,000,000 of free cash flow. Does that remain a core division?

Speaker 2

All right. So I'll deal with the Grasberg one. So we signed ahead of our agreement, as you know. The one thing I said in the speech is the 3 teams, because our 3 parties, are working very hard to come to a conclusion the documentation. And the target is still sign before and get the cash before the end of this year.

But as in all transaction, until you sign and until you get the cash on the balance sheet, you don't have a deal. Okay, so let's be absolutely clear and back to what happened during the night. I know there are a few people in the back row here who were slightly concerned that we won't get the cash on time. So we're working hard to get it. On the taxes, discussion are underway.

Since from today, we don't see material tax payment on the back of it. But those discussions are taking place with the relevant tax authorities. So we'll clarify the situation closer to the closing transaction. Diamonds is, so today we have 2 minds. Do we like diamond as industry?

The answer is yes. And you know, Dominik, what I'm going to say is if people think that copper is difficult, we always use copper as a baseline. Between the time you have a nice rock and the time you got cash flows, it's only 25 years on average. In diamonds, it's only 30 years. So it is a very attractive industry, but it is very difficult to find world class assets in that space, right?

So are we spending money resources in the context of exploration diagrams? The answer is yes. And you see it in the QRS and so on and so forth. So we have an extensive program of exploration in that space. So in that sense, to answer your question in very direct ways, diamond is important for us.

Now we need to acknowledge that we have only 2 mines today and they are on their last leg. I mean, we can see the closure coming and the work, a big chunk of work is taking place as we speak to make sure that when the time is right and when we have to close those mines, we will do it the right way. So yes, we like diamonds. Yes, we're spending money and resources in the exploration space. We're going to have to be patient.

But trust me, I'm putting our friends from exploration under massive pressure to move fast in that space, and I will continue to do it. And as I said, I would love, absolutely love to find a new peak diamond mine, to be honest. But I may have to wait for 30 years. So waivers is standing here in 29 years, may have good piece of news, but not for me to tell, right? Vincik?

Speaker 3

All the costs? Yes. Well, the the key, the year on year increased about $200,000,000 But that and your question was really about going forward. I really can't give you any better guidance and probably maintain the same sort of basis into the second half. They seem like they're stabilizing, leveling off, but time will tell.

It's primarily the inputs of caustic, pitch and coke. They're the main inputs into that mix. And you'll see that across our peer group variously as well with those same items coming through. And the carbon material is also a factor for us in the TiO2 business, the RTFT business. So with the furnace activity there.

So but I don't think it will give you much better than that really.

Speaker 2

I got to build on what Chris said. I mean, let's be clear. Inflation is going to hit is hitting all commodities and all players across the industry. And I'm going to use one metrics. So we did check, was it a week ago, 10 days ago, in Australia today, if you go to advice sites where you look for jobs and so on and so forth, you got 40% more posting for jobs in the mining business than a year ago.

So I slightly smile when people are saying, oh, inflation is not going to impact us and so on and so forth. If you got 40% more requirements for job in Australia, guess what will happen,

Speaker 3

all right?

Speaker 2

So our position is very simple on this one. We acknowledge the point. We did highlight this concern, this risk around inflation November, December last year and we have taken actions. Our approach is to say to acknowledge the challenge and try to take as many actions as we can in order to mitigate the potential issue. And I think what you saw in the result is this morning, the fact that we were able to deliver 43% EBITDA margin on the back of our mind to market productivity program is a good example of it.

So we acknowledge the challenge and we get on with it. Mine to market, it will be absolutely essential in the coming years because inflation is coming back. Even if you look on the CapEx front, all majors in Australia have announced in the last few weeks major capital program in DWA. Once again, what's going to happen? Inflation is coming and therefore it's even more important for us not only to apply mine to market to our existing assets, but to apply our mine to market approach to the capital space as well.

And that's exactly what we're doing. If I go to the back, come on Paul.

Speaker 11

Thanks very much. Paul Guggenstein. A couple of quick questions. You alluded to supply side reforms in China in terms of steel capacity, but we've also seen that in terms of the iron ore domestic iron ore production in China has come down quite markedly year on year. Just wondering if you could give us some thoughts about what you're seeing there.

2nd, well, in terms of the Pilbara blend and, of course, Kodayer will be feeding into that. But how long can you actually maintain the quality of the Pilbara blend in sort of roughly today's specifications given the reserve base that we've got or rather you've got? And then finally, in terms of Grasberg, heads of agreement at the minute, are you still involved in that discussion process? Or does this essentially now represent Rio Tinto sort of taking a step back from those discussions?

Speaker 2

Thanks very much. Yes. On the Gratwurst piece, it's Precipa. We're still involved in the discussion because part at the end of the day, Rio, we have to sign the SPA with the government over Indonesia and only Rio Tinto will sign it, okay? We're not going to delegate anybody to sign it on our behalf.

Do you agree with that? Good. So we are involved on this one. And as I said, the 3 teams are working hard and the sooner we can sign the penalties. On the iron ore in China, we have 200 people in Shanghai and we have a big team in China and part of the job is to find out about it.

If you go back a few years ago, our understanding was the local domestic production of I know was around 400,000,000 tonne. They dropped to, at some stage, 225. We believe in the 1st 6 months of this year, post winter cut, we back there is some uncertainty. But if I had to pick a range between $235,000,000 245,000 maybe slightly below 250 if you want to be on the top ish side. Interesting enough, our understanding is primarily a lot of it is underground and not open pit because of pollution, environment concerns and so on and so forth.

So there is compared to the question asked 1 year ago, 2 years ago, we have full confidence that the iron ore production, domestic R and D production will continue to reduce, because it's high cost, but more importantly the environmental concerns are very significant, hence my comments about open pit versus underground. So that's the best view that we have today. Now once again, it's we have to we acknowledge that there is a risk around this one. And therefore, back to my previous point is we need to work on what we can control. And today what is important in the iron ore business or the aluminum business or the copper business, making sure we've got the right cost structure and you saw the cost structure in iron ore which is pretty good.

I know some people had some concern and you saw that hard work to get to this point. Having the right quality of product and I'll come back to your second question and having the right relationship with the customers and so on and so forth. Because all in all, if you got those parameters right, then you will have a strong market share, you will generate a lot of cash and as I said earlier, be able to continue to invest in the long term and be able to reward your shareholders as per our commitment. On the question of Pilbara and the ability for us to maintain the Pilbara blend, if you think about the next 5 to 10 years because we have a long term plan for obvious reasons, I mean, you've got a resource of more than 100 years. If you look at the short term, 5 to 10 years, I know people smile when I say that, do we have a concern about our ability to maintain the Pivar brand?

The answer is no, okay? Now on a regular basis, we do this long term mining plan that we're going through this process at this point in time. But for the next 10 years, we don't have a concern whatsoever. But as we said many times, and you know better than Eberlias says, 10 years in mining business is pretty short term, right?

Speaker 3

Can I

Speaker 2

go back to the front? Front row.

Speaker 7

We will now take our next question from Claire Wilkins from UBS.

Speaker 2

Just one on

Speaker 5

Hi, Dave. Fresh

Speaker 12

internally and from shareholders to deliver more than just 2% sort of volume growth over the next 5 years. And are you seeing kind of related to that more opportunities on the M and A side? Are the right assets sort of at the right price? Or is it still effectively a no go? And then secondly, maybe with Pilbara iron ore kind of unit costs, I mean, doing a good job first half of this year.

As we look forward with autohall with the volume increase, can we kind of is the potential for unit cost to go down on a 2 year view despite inflation or is best case stay where we

Speaker 2

are? You pick up the annual, I'll pick up. So the growth well, we're going to start the roadshow in a few hours for obvious reasons. But on the back of the concession, last round of the concession was at the time of the Bank of America Merrill Lynch. I should get a discount for that next year, Jason.

Conference in Miami and the subsequent investor road shows we have in New York and so on. No, we're not under pressure in terms of growth today. Yes, there are some questions about where you're going to go in the long term and so on and so forth, because we fully acknowledge that in the mining business, you need to grow because depletion is a reality. And therefore, if you don't grow, you can have a problem. But today, we are not under pressure from that perspective, okay?

Now what is important for us is to develop a pipeline of attractive growth options, right. But today, when I look at what we are delivering, we're delivering Silvergrass, we're talking about Cudal right now, we have Anran around the corner, which should come in line pretty soon. We've got Oyu Tolgoi. We never stop investing, including at the bottom of cycle. For us, it's about delivering high quality growth.

Some people have a mantra of being big. The mantra of ReOil is to be focused and to be profitable and to deliver return for shareholders, right. So it's better to be very focused, making sure you deliver your project on time with the right quality, the right safety performance and so on and so forth and just growing for the sake of it and then not having your A team working on it and then ending up with lots of overruns and so on and so forth, which if you look at the last 10, 15 years industry has been a feature of the industry. So I would rather grow below GDP, if I want to, but there has to be high quality growth and making sure we deliver on time and, as I said, on budget. So that's where we are.

M and A, you know what I'm going to say. Everybody knows which asset I would love to have in the portfolio, but we're not going to do anything stupid, absolutely not. We'll keep the watching brief. If there are if there were to be what we described as smart M and A where you have synergies because you've got a logistic advantage or you've got technology advantage or whatever, Yes, we will look at it, but you need to have the right level of synergy to justify any kind of premium. Do we have teams looking at all kind of options?

The answer is yes. We've been very transparent to this one. We have a watching brief on M and A. But today, at this point in time, nothing that really excite us. We have to be patient.

You know Mike's better than anybody else, I guess, that sometimes in Mining business, you have to wait for 20 years for the right asset to come at the right price and so on and so forth. So having said that, I repeat what I said last year. The last trough was not deep enough, long enough for the premium asset to be released. We had the whole all of us had lots of expectation that it was coming, but unfortunately, depending on how you want to look at it, the market recovered. Some people had some near death experience, let's put it this way, and the assets were not released to the market.

So we'll be very patient. We'll be very patient. History shows that the bulk of the M and A don't create value anyway. So you need to be very safety, very focused. And this ratio shows that the best growth option at the end of the day are your organic growth option.

So we're pushing hard on the organic growth option and we keep a wishing brief on the M and A. Should you pick up the iron ore and the inflation line issue, Chris?

Speaker 3

Yes. So iron ore is not immune from the threat of inflation. What our challenge is, is to offset that. So that's where we'll be targeting with the productivity agenda. Obviously, things like the oil price are showing pretty healthy sort of increases over the course of last year.

And we'll have we will be entering more below water table type mining as well. We're going to hit longer haul distances. So we do have some challenges coming our way, which is important that we get the productivity agenda in full run there. Where we need to attack our cost is on the first line of entry into the business. So the volume absorption is one thing, but the first spend is really where you want to attack it.

The guys have done a great job over the last 6 to 12 months in easing that rail bottleneck. So we've now got a position where the rail is more tuned to the port capacity. So we've got a bit of flexibility in the system there that wasn't there up until about, well, early in this half. So I think we don't give you guidance about the cost as you well know. But I think there are a series of factors there.

There's a good challenge there. And the team Chris and the team are more than up for the challenge. But it's that threat of inflation is there and it will be there and it's going to be a constant. And then once we get the early works on Cadabria is sort of that's an encouraging thing. But once we get that in play, assuming that comes through the normal approval processes and the like, That's going to be a very exciting mine.

I'd love to be around when it's

Speaker 2

You can't come back, Chris. Yes.

Speaker 3

Well, I hope I'm still around.

Speaker 2

Yes. That's

Speaker 3

shareholders. It's pretty much going to be fully automated mine. And you'll have on display on one side quite a lot of the functionality that we've been working on for the last decade.

Speaker 2

John is telling me we have time for 2 questions. So we'll take one from the call and then we'll come back to the room. So one from the call, David.

Speaker 7

We will now take our next question from Mr. Clark Wilkins from Citi. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 5

Hi, Jess. Just a question on bauxite and then also on iron ore. Just on your comments earlier about the sort of the uncertainties around that market. When you look at your volumes, you've got increasing volume coming from Ameren as well as from Guinea. Is it primarily a price risk or is it also a volume risk?

Like, are there any sort of offtake volume for those projects? Or it's very much sort of shorter term sales contracts. So depending on what happens to the market, is there a volume risk there? And also just in regards to iron ore, like the comments around the sort of grade discounts being more structural, We've obviously seen recently impurity penalties rising quite significantly and giving your comments around China domestic supply continuing to fall. Is there a chance or is there a potential that the impurity penalties in the market also going to be more structural and is bringing forward the sort of CapEx to Cadillatary a potential way to sort of adjust the quality of that Pilbara blend?

Speaker 2

No, 2 very good questions. So on the box side is the key question for us is mainly about Amron. Remember that half of the additional capacity of Amron is replacement capacity and the other half is regrowth. Do we have any concern today in our ability to place the growth element of Amron when it comes online? The answer is absolutely no.

So we don't have concerns from that perspective. On the iron ore pricing is, without getting to the detail too much, the impurities are already priced. So if you look at the pricing formula, it's not only about the FE content, there are adjustment alumina, force and so on and so forth. So the pricing exists already there to adjust for those impurities. But your question is absolutely spot on is, it is our experience is the because of the pressure from SASSAC and the government in China in relation to our environment, the measurement of the burden of the blast furnaces is becoming more and more important.

And last time I went there and I met with some of the engineers or some of the people at our customer sites, I can tell you I've never seen and I've been traveling to China for many, many years in the context of steel. Remember, I used to work in the steel business before joining Rio Tinto. I've never seen our customer knowing how well to manage their burden, how well to run the performance of their blast furnaces and so on and so forth. So it is absolutely clear that all customers in China are becoming closer to the customer we have in Japan, very aware of how you optimize your blast furnaces. And I'm sure that the question about impurities, the force for example and alumina will become something which could be a feature.

But the point is the pricing already account for those adjustments and so on and so forth. So that's where we are. One last question in the room and we have to take the other question during the coffee break. So go for it, Tarek.

Speaker 13

Liam, it's Patrick from Deutsche Bank. I'll keep it to 1. Just on the Canadian

Speaker 2

One for Chris, come on. That's his last set of results. But I don't know what the question is going to be, Chris, but you're going to have to pick it up, mate.

Speaker 13

Sorry, Chris. On the Canadian aluminum expansions, you've been flagging them for a while. So if the market does tighten, can you give us a sense on timing? I mean, could we see these approved early next year or are these much more long dated options?

Speaker 2

We are a few years I'll pick it up this one because you won't be there, that's for sure. Maybe as a shareholder you'll be there, but we are a few years away, okay? For us to take a decision to build a new smelter in Canada, okay, we need to be absolutely convinced that there is structural change in China there, okay? I've got no doubt that in medium and long term China is moving in the right direction and the China will become more and more balanced. But until we get to this point, we do the work, we do the study, we are ready, we are we will become option ready, option rich, option ready, but we are still a few years away before taking a decision to add capacity in the aluminum space.

So that's one aspect. Having said that, we are looking at option like we've done forever to expand the capacity of aluminum smelter on the back of brownfield, on the back of creeping because that is productivity and so on and so forth. But before we take a decision to build a brand new half a million tonne smelter in Canada, we're still a few years away. And I invite you to open the smelter, Chris, when it happens.

Speaker 3

That will be good.

Speaker 2

On this note, we're going to have to stop. Thanks for coming. If you have only one number to I know you love your numbers and so on and so forth. The only two numbers you should remember is $7,200,000,000 of returns to shareholders and $2,200,000,000 of dividend which is the highest in the 146 years, oh that's three numbers, history of the group. So thanks a lot and we'll talk soon.

Thank you very much.

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