SEGRO Plc (LON:SGRO)
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Earnings Call: H2 2021

Feb 18, 2022

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Well, good morning, everybody, and welcome to our full year 2021 results presentation. It's wonderful finally to be back in a room in the city with other human beings, and great to see a number of you here today. Hopefully this will become the norm in the future. Welcome everybody, whether you're here or online. Well, 2021 was a truly remarkable year for SEGRO, with some outstanding financial and operating results and many other successes, which, lest we forget, were delivered in the midst of an ongoing pandemic. Before we get into the detail, I'd like to highlight three things that really stand out for me when I reflect back on the last year or so. The first has been the strength, breadth, and depth of occupier demand that we've witnessed across our markets.

During the year, we signed a record GBP 95 million of incremental new rental commitments. Andy will give you some color on these a bit later on, but it's broad in terms of the types of occupier, with 270 different leasing transactions behind that GBP 95 million. Demand is also deep. For many buildings, we're often now receiving strong interest from multiple occupiers who are chasing it, and frequently with little alternative competing supply. That's the reason why we've seen rents grow so strongly during the past year. Demand in 2020 undoubtedly outstripped supply, and we expect that to continue in 2021 and beyond. Of course, the attractive fundamentals have not gone unnoticed. Investment volumes across the industrial sector hit record levels in 2021, and brokers report an extraordinary amount of capital still seeking to gain exposure.

While that's been good news for valuations, it also means intense competition for both standing assets and increasingly for land. The second stand-out point for me, therefore, is the fact that despite this competition, we've been able to add some excellent new opportunities which will drive future growth. Our local teams have been leveraging their networks, thinking outside the box and using the strength of our reputation and balance sheet to source some excellent new opportunities, enabling us to deploy GBP 1.3 billion of capital over and above the development expenditure. Andy will provide some color on these as well later on. Encouragingly, we have plenty more opportunities in the hopper. Finally, the third highlight from 2021 was the progress we've made with Responsible SEGRO.

We announced our ambitions this time last year, focusing on three main areas, championing low carbon growth, investing in our local communities and environments, and nurturing talent. We have a long way to go to reach our ambitions, but we've made encouraging progress already. We've reduced operating emissions across the portfolio. We've made very good progress with gaining visibility of customers' emissions. On development, we're innovating with different materials, and we're increasingly undertaking life cycle carbon assessments, which are critical to reducing embodied carbon. On communities and environments, we've put the framework in place for the first set of community investment plans, and we'll be implementing those during 2022 and beyond. Finally, with regard to nurturing talent, we were awarded the National Equality Standard in recognition of our commitment to diversity and inclusion.

We've strengthened the team and added more diversity through promotions and new hires, and we've taken a variety of other steps to improve staff well-being, but also to improve our understanding of D&I issues. This is only the start, but it's a good start, and I've been really encouraged by the way our stakeholders have engaged with us on these initiatives. Those are three features that stood out for me in this remarkable year, and I hope you'll gain a sense of these as we go through the rest of the presentation. In a moment, Soumen will set out and explain the financial results. Andy will then provide you with more color on how we're driving value from the portfolio and growth from the development program, as well as how we're leveraging our platform to create new opportunities to sustain and grow the business in the future.

I'll end the presentation by discussing the outlook. Soumen Das, over to you.

Soumen Das
CFO and Executive Director, SEGRO

Thanks, David. Morning, everybody. Great to see you all here in person. Morning to everybody on the line. As David's highlighted, it's been a great year for the business, and that's reflected in a very strong set of financial results, which I'll talk you through this morning. Starting on slide 7. This slide highlights our key financial metrics, which have all grown strongly in the period. Adjusted profit before tax is up 20% to GBP 356 million, and adjusted EPS is up 15% to 29.1 pence. Now, excluding the performance fee from SELP, which I'll come on to talk about shortly, EPS was up 10% to 28 pence. The full-year dividend has been set at 24.3 pence, which is in line with that 10% growth rate in earnings.

The portfolio growth has been especially eye-catching, with a revaluation of GBP 4 billion during 2021. That's an increase of 29%. That's led to a very strong growth in NAV per share of just under 40% to 1,137 pence. The balance sheet continues to be in great shape. LTV is 23%, with that valuation increase offsetting the impact of funding our capital investment. Now, while our metrics grew strongly in 2021, it's important to put that performance in longer-term context. Here on slide 8, we show you that last year is a continuation of the very positive, consistent performance that we delivered now over a number of years.

Since 2016, we've grown our rent roll 12% per annum, and as a result, NAV has grown strongly year-on-year, a CAGR of 19%, and earnings and dividends per share have grown by CAGRs of 9%. Now, this is extremely strong and compounding financial performance to deliver year in and year out. As Andy and Dave will talk about shortly, we believe there's still a lot more to come. On slide nine, in turning back to the 2021 results in some more detail. This is the usual slide that we show you that looks at net rental income growth, which is a key driver of the growth in earnings. Net rental income grew GBP 52 million to GBP 447 million in the period. That's an increase of more than 13%. There were three main contributors to that growth.

Rents from the standing portfolio grew GBP 17 million as we capture rental growth in our passing rent. You can see in the box at the top, at the top of the slide, the like-for-like growth rate was 4.9%, which we've seen across both the U.K. and across Europe. Moving on to the next bar in the graph. Development completions have again had a big impact, adding GBP 30 billion. In terms of investment activity, we've been very successful over the past two years in executing some very large transactions, particularly in places like London and Paris. Those have added a further GBP 20 million to the rent, which is offset by GBP 5 million of disposals. Looking ahead, we'd expect rental income to continue to grow strongly with a similar profile across all three elements. Turning now to power, slide ten.

You can see here on the rest of the income statement that the top-line growth in rental income has fed through to growing profitability. I mentioned earlier that adjusted profit before tax was up 20% to GBP 356 million, and EPS was up 15% to 29.1 pence. The different growth rate between the two is due to the higher share count, and you can see that on the last line of the table. I should just spend a moment on the SELP performance fee, which is something you'll need to bear in mind over the next couple of years. You might recall that in 2018, we were paid a fee at the five-year anniversary of SELP, which was based on certain IRR hurdles. Half of that fee was subject to clawback.

As we now believe it's unlikely the clawback will bite, we're recognizing that net share GBP 13 million, which increases EPS by 1.1 pence. Without that, EPS would have been 28 pence, a growth rate of 10%. We're also potentially due a further fee from SELP at the 10-year anniversary, which is in October 2023. SELP's strong performance in recent years means that on current valuations, our net receipt could be in the order of EUR 140 million. Now, we've not recognized that yet because there's still some way to go, but as we get closer to the date, we might well need to do so. Now, I should just note on the last box here on the page, which is FX, which could impact earnings this year.

The sterling euro exchange rate has been fairly stable in recent years, but in the last few months, sterling has been strengthening. Now, had the year-end FX rate of 1.19 prevailed through the whole of 2021, earnings would have been GBP 2 million lower. Slide 45 in the appendix has got some further detail on the impact of FX movements. Turning to slide 11 and the portfolio valuation. The portfolio valuation increased GBP 4.1 billion in 2021, a rise of over 29% to GBP 18 billion. The absolute size of that valuation increase, that value creation, that's in just a 12-month period, reflects the success of our asset and our investment management in what has been a very strong market. This added 346 pence to NAV and accounts for most of the 40% growth of that metric.

The U.K., which represents two-thirds of our portfolio, was up 32% and outperformed the continent for the first time since 2018, which was up 22%. The main differentiator between the two was rental growth, which we'll see in a moment on the next slide. Here on slide 12, you can see some of the drivers of that portfolio growth in a little bit more detail. We saw yield compression in every market, reflecting the strong investment market conditions. Anecdotally, we understand that over half of all new capital being raised for investment into real estate is targeting the industrial and logistics sector. This investor demand is strongest for the modern, well-located assets of the type that we own and we create. That has pushed yields down 70 basis points to 3.8% overall.

The big story of the revaluation, though, is the scale of the ERV month-over-month movement. 30% up, 13% up in the period. We've seen that across the portfolio, but the greatest shift has been in London, where the structural trends are most embedded. London's ERV is up 23.5%. In some cases, rents have grown by over 30%, with occupiers looking for modern space in a market where availability is at a record low. Just to remind you that our London, our Slough, and our Continental European urban estates represent two-thirds of our portfolio, and we remain convinced that our urban exposure will continue to enable us to outperform the wider industrial market. Turning to slide 13. The extent of the rental growth means that we now have a significant amount of reversion in the portfolio, which you can see in the chart on the left.

Having been in the order of GBP 20 million-GBP 30 million in recent years, the reversion is now GBP 89 million. It continues to arise mainly in the U.K., although Continental Europe, which is the gray bar, is showing positive reversion for the first time. The graph on the right shows you that about a third of our U.K. portfolio is subject to review in the next two years. This, when combined with our Continental European leases, which are mostly index-linked, that gives the great opportunity to grow our rent roll in the near term and to drive like-for-like rental growth ahead of inflation, as we did last year. Moving on now to slide 14 to cover the balance sheet and financing. We've had another busy and successful year in the capital markets.

We issued two new bonds, each of EUR 500 million, one from SELP and one from SEGRO, and the one from SEGRO achieved a coupon of just 0.5%. Notably, both bonds were issued under our new Green Finance Framework, which is consistent with our Responsible SEGRO objectives. As a result, you can see our balance sheet continues to be in very strong shape to support our future growth. LTV is 23%, and the cost of debt is a very low 1.5%, with an average debt maturity of just under 9 years. Our liquidity remains high at GBP 1.1 billion. We saw the benefit of running our very liquid balance sheet at last year because it allows us to be nimble with our capital investment. For example, we deployed just under GBP 1 billion in November and December alone. Looking forward.

On top of that, after two years of record capital investment, we remain highly focused on adding to our opportunities to enhance future growth as well, which Andy will expand on shortly. As I mentioned earlier, we continue to consider disposals. We've got no non-core assets, given the scale of the portfolio restructuring that was undertaken between 2012 and 2017. It is good investment discipline to edit and to trim the portfolio around the edges. We continue to target around 1%-2% of our portfolio per annum, which would imply around GBP 200 million to GBP 400 million each year. It could be a little bit more this year, given the strength of the investment market.

On page 15, to sum up on the financial side, I'm very pleased to report strong earnings growth driven by the capture reversion, a strong leasing performance in our development program, a 29% increase in the valuation of our portfolio, and a balance sheet that's well-positioned to support future growth. Against this strong and positive backdrop, we've increased the full-year dividend by 10%. With that, I'll hand you over to Andy.

Andy
Managing Director, Development, SEGRO

Thank you, Soumen, and good morning, everyone. Soumen has outlined the strong financial results we've produced. I'm going to show you what has made that possible, a combination of current market conditions and our proactive response to deliver a strong operational performance. You may remember this slide from the half-year results. It still holds true today. We continue to operate in very favorable market environments. The supply-demand dynamic in our sector, high levels of occupier demand, and very low levels of vacancy across main markets has resulted in record levels of rental growth. This looks set to continue, with any speculative development being taken up very quickly and our customers finding it extremely difficult to secure the space they need to operate their businesses most efficiently. These market fundamentals have attracted investors to the industrial sector, and a record GBP 52 billion was invested across Europe during 2021.

Our teams are working hard to respond to the opportunity that these dynamics present and to position our business to benefit fully. As David mentioned earlier, these market conditions have helped us to achieve a new record level of rent signed during 2021, GBP 95 million. This was 20% higher than 2020, which was our previous record. It included existing customers such as Ocado, Hermes, and Chronopost, who all took additional standing space in the portfolio. We've continued to see strong demand for our speculatively developed schemes from a very wide variety of customers. Frequently, letting has been prior to practical completion, such is the level of that demand. New pre-let signs contributed GBP 49 million to the total. This included the multi-level data center on the Slough trading estate that we mentioned at half year.

Other pre-lets were for major online retailers, several different third-party logistics providers, and a number of manufacturers. Our operating metrics continue to be strong through the active management of our portfolio. Our retention rate was lower, as you can see, now 77%. That's because we've been actively taking back space to release it, move rents forward, and capture reversionary potential. Similarly, some take backs have enabled sites to be cleared to allow redevelopment to create more valuable new space. Letting success has meant that our vacancy has also dropped to 3.2%. We've secured a very healthy 13% average uplift on rent reviews and lease renewals in the period, with 19% in the U.K. and just under 2% on the continent. Just a reminder on the continent that the majority of our leases are index-linked and have annual uplifts.

We've updated the chart on the right to show that the 2019 and 2020 numbers included the Heathrow cargo area, peppercorn lease re-gears. These are all complete now, so you can see that in that context, the uplift captured by our asset management teams during 2021 was the highest level we've seen. Given the reversion that Soumen Das referred to earlier, we'd expect that to grow. Asset management initiatives during the year not only added to value, but also helped us to progress towards our net zero carbon goal. Our refurbishment activity is increasingly focused on improving the sustainability credentials of our older assets. We're finding this to be very worthwhile. Not only does it future-proof the portfolio, it also helps us attract new customers, retain existing customers, and drive rents forward.

We've mentioned before the net zero refurbishment of a unit in one of our prime West London estates, Premier Park. During 2021, we leased the unit to a new customer, RD Content, a global video production agency. They intend to make their studio the most sustainable film production space in London, and the works we undertook to the building were a significant factor in their decision. We made significant progress in reducing operating carbon emissions during 2021 by moving Poland and the Czech Republic onto green energy tariffs. This means that all electricity that SEGRO procures for itself or on behalf of customers is now zero carbon. To achieve our net zero carbon goal, we need to reduce the emissions our customers make when using our buildings. To do this, we need visibility of their energy data.

We made great progress with this during 2021, particularly in France, which helped to increase our group visibility to 54% from 41% previously. A clearer picture will enable us to engage with our customers to help them become more efficient, reduce their own emissions, as well as their energy bills. Ultimately, our goal is to introduce green clauses into as many leases as possible. We actually included one on the data center deal on the trading estate. The lease requires a very high user of electricity to ensure that it comes from a renewable source. Moving to slide 21 and coming to our development program. We completed 839,000 sq m of new space during 2021, a record level with a particularly busy second half of the year.

This equated to GBP 52 million of potential headline rent, with 93% of that already leased by year-end. We were able to deliver projects by working closely with our construction partners to ensure materials and labor shortages, coupled with supply chain disruption, did not unduly impact our program. Almost 680,000 sq m of this space was big box warehousing. It included a major new fulfillment center for Amazon, west of Milan, and four units at SEGRO Logistics Park, East Midlands Gateway. Our program underwrite for that scheme was 10 years, and with just one plot left, we now expect to complete it in five years. We also completed over 160,000 sq m of urban warehouse space in supply-constrained markets such as London, Paris, and Berlin.

In South Paris, we completed our first development of the estate we acquired with Sofibus at the start of 2021. Within our development program, we're working hard to initially reduce embodied carbon and then make our buildings more efficient for our customers to operate. We regularly carry out life cycle assessments, which have resulted in us trialing alternative techniques. We've used timber beams instead of steel. You can see that result in Lyon. Using low-carbon concrete alternatives that reduce embodied carbon by as much as 50%, Amsterdam is the example on the slide. We've added photovoltaics to more and more of our projects to reduce carbon emissions from our customers' use.

On that, we added 9 MW of on-site renewable energy capacity to our portfolio, an increase of almost a third. On one project in Italy, we added 1 MW of capacity with 2,500 photovoltaic panels on the roof. Finally, biodiversity continues to be an important focus for us. In urban schemes, often with restricted space, that means adding green walls, creating pocket parks, and including beehives and insect hotels. In our big box developments, such as Northampton Logistics Park, the impact can be that much greater. We're incorporating over 32 hectares of parkland with 18 km of footpaths for local residents to enjoy, and we will be planting more than 60,000 new trees. I'd also like to update you on our community investment plans and the involvement of our teams across the business.

We've pledged to set up a CIP in all our key markets by 2025. During 2021, we worked on creating a structure so that we can deliver highly impactful community and environmental programs. We've put the foundations in place for our first 10 plans, each of which will deliver projects focusing on three key areas, helping people benefit from skills, training, and job brokerage programs, supporting local SMEs to connect to our customers and suppliers to gain business opportunities, and delivering projects to improve biodiversity and contribute to the health and well-being of the local community. To maximize their impact and help embed them within the business, we've appointed 41 community champions who will be working with our customers, suppliers, and local partners.

I'm now going to turn to our investment activity during 2021, and how we leverage the strength and experience of our platform to create new opportunities for growth. 2021 was the second year in a row of a record investment in our business. We invested almost GBP 2 billion. GBP 649 million was spent on CapEx in our development program. This included GBP 99 million on infrastructure of our new U.K. big box schemes in Coventry and Northampton, where we already have prelets under negotiation at both. The total spend was lower than expected at half year, with some projects moving into 2022 due to delays from customer redesign and planning permitting. We've seen quite significant inflation of cost, but have been able to pass this through in increased rents, enabling us to maintain our attractive development returns.

We also undertook GBP 1.3 billion of acquisitions, which I'll cover more fully on the next slide. This investment was offset by GBP 515 million of disposals, taking our net investment in the year to GBP 1.5 billion. The level of disposals was a little higher than normal as we took advantage of the strength of the investment market to take profit on assets which were on our medium-term disposal list. They included some older standalone U.K. big box warehouses and smaller urban estates as part of an asset swap. I'm going to finish my section by looking at the acquisitions in more detail. As we've already mentioned, competition in the industrial sector is ferocious, making it more difficult to acquire both standing assets and land.

Our teams have risen to the challenge and leveraged their relationships, local knowledge, and experience to create some fantastic opportunities during 2021. We invested GBP 997 million on asset acquisitions during the year. Many were urban assets in the supply-constrained markets of London and Paris. Given the strong competition, we've had to be creative about how we source them. I mentioned earlier the asset swap that resulted in us acquiring Matrix Park, a fantastic estate in Park Royal. It was off market with a vendor that we transacted with before, and that relationship and trust built up in the earlier deal stood us in very good stead. A forward funding deal with a developer in Croydon helped increase our presence in this key strategic South London market.

We also acquired a number of older brownfield estates for short-term income, which will be quite complex to redevelop, so not everyone has the skills, experience, or appetite to take them on. An example would be a group of neighboring estates in Belvedere, Southeast London from a private company. We'll develop the 20 acres they cover in a number of phases over the next five years. We're increasingly looking for opportunities to repurpose assets. A good example was our largest acquisition, or I should probably say reacquisition, the office portfolio that borders the Slough trading estate. We sold it in 2016 as part of our strategy to dispose of non-core assets.

With vacancy on the trading estate at a record low and strong demand for space from data center operators, creative industries, life sciences, and other industrial users, this was the perfect opportunity to get hold of 39 acres that we can redevelop and repurpose over the coming years. Another interesting acquisition was a former car dealership in the inner city Paris location, close to the Arc de Triomphe. It has multi-levels of underground space that we plan to refurbish to provide ultra-urban space for last-mile customers. Finally, our teams have been able to use their local knowledge and networks to acquire 42 different land plots across our key markets. Totaling GBP 326 million, they create lots of future opportunity for the business and replace the GBP 325 million of land that we utilized during 2021. With that, I'll hand you back to David.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Thanks so much, Andy. Right. Moving on to the final section of the presentation today. If I click on. I want to summarize the reasons why we have confidence in our ability to continue growing and to create shareholder value and indeed value for our wider stakeholders. I mentioned at the start of the presentation that we've seen a significant increase in occupied demand over the past 12 months with an amplification of the long-term structural trends that have been benefiting the industrial sector. I'm not gonna go through them individually right now, but they're here as a reminder. Andy showed you how these trends have led to occupier demand outstripping supply, which has been good for our development program and also good for rental growth. We see no reason why these are gonna change anytime soon.

The market is well set, but how are we at SEGRO going to benefit, and what's our competitive advantage? Well, two key overall factors. Firstly, we have a fantastic portfolio of assets in key European cities and major logistics hubs. Secondly, because we have an excellent pan-European operating platform across 14 different offices in our eight countries. If I drill into the detail just a little bit more, I would say our particular edge comes from a combination of factors. The quality of our locations, which are always among the best, most prime spots in all our markets. The quality of our assets, which are modern, with high sustainability credentials, most of them having been built over the last 20 years. Our scale across multiple markets and our ability to offer big box and urban solutions to our customers, which means we can develop more meaningful strategic relationships.

The weighting of our portfolio to urban centers, where the structural themes really come together most strongly to drive rental growth. Finally, it's that experienced and highly capable local presence in eight different countries. Having these capabilities on the ground gives us a competitive advantage in terms of our relationships with customers and local businesses, our knowledge of local planning regimes and the priorities of the local authorities, and ultimately, it helps us to source new opportunities and secure new pre-lets. I think our local presence has been particularly valuable during the past two years during this period of restricted travel. Because while others have been stuck on Zoom, we've been able to get out and about and strengthen and deepen our relationships with these key stakeholders. I think it's paid some handsome dividends in terms of the deals that we've been able to deliver.

In terms of rental growth, we present this slide every year to give you a flavor of market conditions and our expectations for the years ahead. Clearly, 2021 massively outperformed the expectations we laid out this time last year, particularly in London, where the supply shortage has been most acute. Despite the jump in rents, though, that we saw in 2021, we believe that the demand and supply dynamics, which are more positive now than at any time I've previously experienced, remain supportive of further growth. While we wouldn't necessarily predict a repeat of 2021 in a single year, our midterm expectations of average rental growth have been increased, broadly in line with the historic five-year averages that we've recorded across our own portfolio. As always, we're predicting that rental growth will continue to be skewed towards the urban markets.

That's an important point of differentiation, of course, because it's where two-thirds of our invested capital is. Beyond the existing portfolio, we have a fabulous land bank, which gives us potential for further profitable development. You can see we expect GBP 62 million of rent from the current on-site program and another GBP 20 million of rent associated with near-term prelets that are awaiting a customer's signature or a final planning approval before we start. On the third line, we have the future pipeline associated with other land that is already zoned for development and is sitting on the balance sheet with projected rents of over GBP 140 million, almost 150, in fact.

Then finally, we have optioned land, which includes land purchases secured by way of conditional contracts, which could generate a further GBP 160 million of rent when it's fully built out. I'm sure the general format of the slide will be familiar to everyone, but I'd like to make just a few observations that may not be immediately obvious. Firstly, as Andy alluded to, we've replenished the on-balance sheet land by acquiring as much land in 2021 as we've utilized. Secondly, the projected rents from the land in the optioned category has jumped by about 60% as a result of agreements signed in 2021, which means that overall we have materially increased the scale of opportunity ahead. As I intimated in the early part of the presentation, there's more in the hopper.

Thirdly, while the forward-looking development yields continue to drift downwards as land prices increase in response to tightening investment yields and increasing rental growth expectations, the overall development yield represents a very healthy premium to the yield on completed up and let assets. Pulling all that data together, here is the usual income bridge chart that we update every six months. You can see that even before allowing for the further rental growth that we expect to come through, we have the potential to more than double our cash passing rents from GBP 518 million currently to over GBP 1 billion per annum upon the successful execution of opportunities, which are largely under our control. That's up 30% from a year ago, despite GBP half a billion worth of disposals.

If you look back, five years ago, we were showing you a similar shape chart with income potential of just over GBP 500 million. Well, we've delivered that and more, while also doubling the scale of future opportunities that we plan to deliver over the next few years. An additional source of growth is referred to in that text box on the right-hand side of the chart. That's our capacity to add further rent from redeveloping and intensifying land use on assets currently classed as part of the investment portfolio. That includes some of the assets that we acquired last year with repositioning in mind, and also quite a number of other well-located income-producing assets that we plan to redevelop in the years ahead and which we're managing on that basis.

As we demonstrated with one or two recent examples, these sorts of redevelopments and intensifications can generate a very significant further uplift, and none of that further potential is yet included in these figures. To summarize this section, the structural trends continue to be supportive. Land availability in many of our key markets is constrained and is unlikely to be sufficient to facilitate enough development to meet demand. The prime quality of our modern, sustainable portfolio is ideally placed to capture further rental growth. We have an exceptional land bank that allows us to continue to develop at an attractive yield on cost. We have a great operating platform, which will enable us to capture this growth, and no doubt, we'll continue to source further new opportunities. Finally, we have our balance sheet, which gives us significant further capacity for investment.

All of these things combine to form a unique competitive advantage, which bodes well for the years ahead, and with the opportunity and the capacity to deliver annual rental income of GBP 1 billion or more. To recap, 2021 has been a quite remarkable year with some outstanding financial and operating results. We've capitalized on the strong market environment to drive value and growth. We've leveraged our platform to create opportunities for future growth. We remain confident in the outlook for our business and in our ability to drive further sustainable growth in earnings, while also delivering value for all of our stakeholders through our wider responsible SEGRO activities. Thank you for your attention this morning. We're now gonna move to questions. We'll take questions firstly from the room, and then we will move to the conference lines.

Would anybody in the room like to kick us off? Just to remind you, please use the microphone in your seat and push the button so you can be heard online. Who's first? Mark?

Mark Sheridan
Equity Research Analyst, Bank of America

It works. Okay. Very good morning. Mark Sheridan from Bank of America. Well, first of all, congratulations for this record results, I mean, amazing. I have three questions, if I may. The first one is, can you give us a little bit of color on how we should think about like-for-like rental growth this year? Because there is plenty of very strong moving parts, CPI on one side, ERV on the other side, and the reduction potential, which is now at kind of a historical high, if I remember well. So how we should think about it. Is it gonna be higher than this year or equivalent? I guess not lower.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Mark, that's a great question. When I was a CFO, I used to enjoy trying to grapple with that one, and the fact that there are so many moving parts, it was always very difficult to give any guidance. I know a man who probably will give you some guidance, and I suspect Soumen's ready for that.

Soumen Das
CFO and Executive Director, SEGRO

Funny, well, you're just taking the words out of my mouth, David. Look, the reality is like-for-like is always a slight. It's quite a volatile number because it's always based on a relatively small sample size. Really, it knits together all the different pieces you've seen. You saw Andy's slide showing you the capture reversion, the reletting spread has moved from 11% to 13%. Then given the size of the reversion, also given the fact we got a third of our leases up for review this year and next year, you know, I would hope that that 13% grew quite nicely in sort of the highest of the high teens, potentially 20% area, which should then push the like-for-like certainly above 5%.

I'm not sure I can give you much more specific guidance than that, I'm afraid.

Mark Sheridan
Equity Research Analyst, Bank of America

Well, that's largely enough from my perspective. The second one, it would be about ERVs. Sorry, again, it's a tricky one. Many ERVs for last year have been incredibly high in the U.K. in particular. Should we expect more or less the same trend for 2022 according to what you can see on the market right now? What about Continental Europe? Should we now see a strong acceleration towards what we've seen in the U.K. for the last couple of years?

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Yeah, sure. Well, we gave you some indications on that early chart where we thought rents would be. We said, you know, broadly look back at our five-year averages by the different chunks of our portfolio, and that's what we're sort of thinking about in general for each of the main market segments. I mean, it's enormously difficult to predict because it is down to the specific supply to demand dynamics in every situation and every you know, if there are two or three occupiers going for a particular building in London, and there's nobody else around then, you know, could we see you know, we saw rents go from GBP 20 to GBP 30, in some cases, well above that. Could they go to GBP 40 or more? They will in some situations.

In fact, already are in some markets. It's very specific to a particular micro location and where an occupier needs to be. You know, anecdotally, we're seeing very encouraging signs of ongoing demand from occupiers across all our markets in the early part of 2022. It's just too early to say what this number can turn out to be for this year, which is why we would say, look at it on a three to four-year basis as to what we expect it would average out to. That's why we've given you those numbers. Will we see particular spikes? Could it be more than we've guided in some markets?

If we could, it could be less in others where there's more supply? Yes. We've tried to give you a general guide as to where it is. Certainly feels very positive right now in terms of the demand supply fundamentals. As I said earlier, never been stronger in my experience, and I'm sure Andy, who's been in the industry longer than I have, would echo that as well.

Mark Sheridan
Equity Research Analyst, Bank of America

My third question, no worries, is not gonna be about whether cap rates are going. No worries. The third question is on the land option you have, how much CapEx you would need to spend to acquire and finalize the acquisition of those of this land bank?

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Well, the number we've given you in that table, the cost to complete includes the land, the spend on the land as well as the development expenditure. We've guided to an overall 6% DY including that. We wouldn't break out the land specifically. It's in there in that number of GBP 2.7 billion that we've guided to.

Mark Sheridan
Equity Research Analyst, Bank of America

Super. Thank you.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Okay. Gentleman at the back.

Colm Lauder
Head of Real Estate, Investment Banking, Goodbody

Thanks, David. Colm Lauder in Goodbody. Again, I'll echo that comment. A remarkable year. Incredible to see that NAV rent coming through. Just two questions from me. One, just moving on from Mark's view in terms of looking at the ERV moves, and particularly thinking about the lease structures. One of the comments in the outlook statement was you feel comforted by the fact you have a significant chunk of inflation-linked leases, 40% or so. Obviously, RPI has been perhaps ahead of that over the last couple of years. The first point on that, are you seeing, one, any evolution in the caps and collars within those inflation-linked leases, given where inflation is currently running?

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Yeah.

Colm Lauder
Head of Real Estate, Investment Banking, Goodbody

Also from your own strategic perspective, any change in preference across the portfolio for that mix when you're negotiating with tenants?

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Yeah, no, that's a good one. Andy, you might wanna sort of comment on that in terms of what we're seeing, and that has been evolving a little bit, and we've been keen to see it evolve.

Andy
Managing Director, Development, SEGRO

Sure. If I take the index-linked query first, yeah, it has evolved, and we've been keen for it to evolve. You know, typically, it's been in a kind of, you know, 1-3, 2-4 camp, and we're trying to push that on. In fact, we're trying not to have caps in that indexation. There is a bit of market culture about caps and collars, but we're trying to come away from that. In terms of lease lengths, it's a bit of a balance because obviously you want some longevity of good, sustainable income, but clearly that pushes reversion capture out further.

We're constantly, you know, looking at the portfolio, actively managing the portfolio to get a nice combination of some shorter stuff, you know, even on the same estate, some shorter stuff, so that we can get in there, get rents up, push the reversion forward, take the value forward, and having some nice cover on longer leases with quality covenants sitting underneath them. Always, always a balance.

Colm Lauder
Head of Real Estate, Investment Banking, Goodbody

Okay, thank you. Maybe one question, an unrelated question as well. Just thinking about the construction cost dynamics. I thought it was interesting this morning, just looking at one of your providers, some industry panels saying prices up a quarter last year, already seeing prices in the mid-teens year to date. What are your thoughts on construction cost inflation this year? Obviously acknowledging you do lock them in early, quite significant prices continuing into the year already.

Andy
Managing Director, Development, SEGRO

Yeah, sure. You're right. I mean, the first point to make is we lock in prices. We always lock in against the development proposal, be that pre-let or speculative. We always know what the numbers are gonna look like, what the development returns are like with that cost baked in, so we're not seeing a sort of inflation move during the course of the project. We've seen probably on average across the group, about 15% overall cost inflation through the course of the year. Some elements, substantially more, cladding, steel, concrete, 20%-25%. Some hotspots as well. Actually, funny enough, Midlands, U.K., Poland, probably nearer 20% than the 15%. What we have managed to do is also move rents forward.

We're not seeing our development margin, our development returns reduced. We've been able to make a pass-through. We're having to be agile with that. Contracts with contractors, prices are not held for long, so we have to keep moving our agreements with customers with the contracts and keeping them in lockstep. We managed to make a pass-through, so it's not.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Okay.

Andy
Managing Director, Development, SEGRO

reducing our margins.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Definitely a premium in this market for planning further ahead, you know, as much forward planning and working very closely with our main construction partners to, you know, so there's a really good dialogue and good visibility both ways. Further cost increases this year, hopefully will abate somewhat from last year but,

Andy
Managing Director, Development, SEGRO

Totally, we're thinking that supply chain and materials is leveling a little bit. But there's the labor rates, labor cost, labor availability could sort of come in. We still expect some cost inflation going forward.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Thanks. Anyone in the room? Otherwise, we'll go to the conference call. Operator, could you open up the line for anybody who wants to ask a question, please?

Operator

Of course. Our first question is from Pieter Runneboom from Kempen. Pieter, your line is open. Please go ahead. Hello, Pieter, your line is open. Please go ahead. Not getting any audio from Pieter's line, so we'll move on to our next question from Paul May from Barclays. Paul, your line is open. Please go ahead.

Paul May
Director, Head of Real Estate Equity Research, Barclays

Hi, team. Hopefully you can hear me.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Morning, Paul.

Paul May
Director, Head of Real Estate Equity Research, Barclays

Just got a few questions, I suppose, on capital allocation overall, but development is the focus within that. Development, obviously given the very, very strong valuation growth and NAV growth over the year, development is reducing as a proportion of the overall business moving forwards. Is this something that you believe will pick up given the strong pipeline that you have in terms of land and option land, or do you believe it'll be something that'll be a smaller proportion? There's sort of. Is there a natural limit to absolute CapEx that you can put into the market at any given time?

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Thanks, Paul. I'm not sure there's a natural limit. I mean, we're trying to work really hard on the development program. As you saw, you know, we've materially increased the development capacity that we have, as a result of some of the things we've been acquiring, both for straight development and some for redevelopment and repositioning. You know, you've got to remember that, you know, development is a very important driver of top-line growth, and clearly it generates some very healthy profits. We're now managing a portfolio at 100% of GBP 21 billion. It's also very important that we manage the existing portfolio and drive performance from that, which you know, hopefully heard some good color on.

I don't think we would say we're trying to change the capital allocation between development and other things. One thing that you will, I think, see more of going forward is as we look at that GBP 21 billion of existing assets under management pulling out opportunities to really drive additional value from the existing portfolio. We talked about the data center opportunity, well, the data center deal we did in Slough, I think at the half year, where we were able to very materially increase, well, you know, a multiple of the previous rent by building a multi-story data center.

We're looking, I would say, much more strategically and with great detail at what are the further opportunities and how can we accelerate bringing some of those through that would create not pure development growth the way you might be alluding to, Paul, but would create also significant uplifts in value. I don't know, Soumen, whether you wanna add anything in terms of cap allocation, but it's-

Soumen Das
CFO and Executive Director, SEGRO

No, I think you've captured it. I agree. I think there's, as the portfolio grows, the opportunity within the existing portfolio grows. You know, do remember our development volumes have grown enormously in the past five years. You know, we were at GBP 200-300 million a year five years ago, and we're at, you know, GBP 650 million to, you know, in 2021, we're forecasting GBP 700 million. We have kept the development program moving and growing. I think one thing we are really pleased with is that, as Andy mentioned, you know, we've had two years of record capital investment, and that has really led to the pipeline of future opportunity growing as well as what we're able to capture today.

You know, I'm not sure we've ever shown you GBP 1 billion plus of future rental potential, and that's not taking into account any future ERV growth.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

I don't think we've actually ever showed that chart before where it's more than doubled in terms of what we're predicting. Maybe as a percentage of capital value, Paul, you're right. As a percentage of rent, I think we've got a higher proportion of development income baked in than we've ever had.

Paul May
Director, Head of Real Estate Equity Research, Barclays

I mean, that's great. Actually, what I'm sort of moving to in the progression of questions is, 'cause basically your balance sheet's in a very strong position. Your like-for-like portfolio, as you say, has got the best potential it's ever had. Your development has the best potential it ever has. Why are you bothering to sell, and why not just capture that reversion potential, drive the, you know, balance sheet probably a little bit stronger, really capture that growth moving forward, to offset arguably the inflationary pressures that you may feel on admin costs and other costs, and any rate pressures that you may feel if interest rates were to increase? Does it not make more sense to keep hold of as much as you can and really capture the growth potential within the business?

Because it doesn't seem like you need the capital from what you're saying.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Yeah, that's a good point. Soumen, why don't you take that one?

Soumen Das
CFO and Executive Director, SEGRO

Yeah, of course. You're absolutely right, Paul. We don't need the capital, and that's not why we sell. As I mentioned in the presentation, we genuinely think it is very good capital investment discipline to edit the portfolio and really we're bottom slicing. We've got a brilliant portfolio, as David says, one of the youngest out there, one of the most modern. The reality is, what we're looking for is to keep driving the performance of the overall portfolio and keeping our total returns high and outperforming the market looking forward as well. It is just good to always sort of you know, take that bottom 1% or 2 % out.

I mean, it's also important the asset managers don't get, frankly, too attached to each of their assets, and they feel they need to be driving performance. You're right. What we are looking to make sure is that, you know, we can either drive rental growth or potentially there is redevelopment or repositioning opportunity within some of those assets. If there are, then we will hold onto the assets. If they are dry, and frankly, there are better owners of that real estate going forward, then we will look to sell. As I say, we're talking about 1%-2% at the margin, but it's. You know, I'm afraid the history of the real estate sector is littered with companies that have held onto assets for too long.

I think it's really good to kinda keep your capital working hard, because I think what we are ultimately looking to drive is that total return, whether you measure it in terms of property return or accounting return or NAV or ultimately in the share price.

Paul May
Director, Head of Real Estate Equity Research, Barclays

Cool, thanks. Last one, probably linked to slide 30, so slightly different, questioning around sort of ERV growth or rental growth. I think Andy sort of clearly mentioned 15, I think it was 15% cost inflation in developments, year-on-cost broadly flat, which implies that your development rent, development ERV, whatever you want to call it, is increasing at a faster rate than the overall ERV of the business. Is that fair to say? On, say, slide 30, the ERV growth expectations kind of don't exclude but significantly undercook what is probably the new rental growth in new properties coming through in each of the markets. Is that a fair way to think about it?

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

That's one way of looking at it. I mean, you need to get it really into the granular detail. I mean, bear in mind, we're seeing a cost increase, which varies by market, varies by material. We're giving it, you know, a broad guidance on that. Remember, you know, those construction costs are only part of the total value stack that we're looking at. What we're simply saying is that as a broad guide, I mean, we look at every single project when it comes to our investment committee and what are the costs that have been baked in, what, you know, what inflation protection have we got in there, and what's the deal with the customer.

That by the time we sign it off, we've got pretty good visibility before we put a spade in the ground, as to what kind of development yield and what return we're gonna make on it. That's a dynamic situation, and it varies by market. Yes, broadly, we're confident we can move those rents on sufficiently to cover the increased costs. Bear in mind, you know, everybody in the sector is facing those same cost increases. Everybody in the sector is facing higher land values. You know, we think we're in good company, but you know, we're confident that we can maintain those margins.

Andy
Managing Director, Development, SEGRO

Just to add to that point.

Paul May
Director, Head of Real Estate Equity Research, Barclays

Great stuff. Thanks very much, guys. Congratulations.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Great

Paul May
Director, Head of Real Estate Equity Research, Barclays

... again on a great year.

Andy
Managing Director, Development, SEGRO

Sorry, Paul. Just to add to that, with a bit of color, we're definitely using our development program to reset. We're creating new space to take rents forward, which will bring the rest of the portfolio with it. You know, you can see that quite clearly on the trading estate, for example, where we've moved rents from GBP 18.50 over GBP 20 with some relatively small scale, but nonetheless speculative development, which is dragging the rest of the portfolio with it. We're using our development in that context.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Yeah. Good point. Thank you. Okay.

Paul May
Director, Head of Real Estate Equity Research, Barclays

Cool. Thank you, Andy.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Marcus Phayre-Mudge from BMO Global Asset Management. Marcus, your line is open. Please go ahead.

Marcus Phayre-Mudge
Fund Manager, Head of Real Estate Securities, BMO Global Asset Management

Good morning, chaps and ladies, and congratulations on a fantastic set of results. Brilliant. A very happy shareholder here. My question is more about Europe and particularly in relation to the difficulties in making further acquisitions, as you've highlighted the very competitive landscape beyond buying a standing investment because the competition is hard. There may well be out there in the listed and unlisted space the opportunity for corporate acquisitions. Is that something which you keep a watching brief on?

Is it something you view, you know, the opportunity to deploy a large amount of capital, helping you know, helping out somebody who may be in some sort of distress and effectively getting hold of a 15-year land bank that would be not available, you know, under normal circumstances. Is that something, or is that just too big a stretch to look at? Yeah, that type of opportunity.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

I don't know whether you wanna, I mean, do you wanna say something, Soumen Das?

Soumen Das
CFO and Executive Director, SEGRO

Yeah, I'm happy to.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Morning, Marcus, by the way.

Soumen Das
CFO and Executive Director, SEGRO

Morning, Marcus. Yes.

I certainly wouldn't describe it as too big a stretch. I mean, I think I'd actually say that we, SEGRO, have undertaken probably more public and private M&A than most companies over the past kind of dozen years or so. I mean, obviously, you go back to Brixton in 2010, you look at Vailog in 2015, which has kind of propelled our Italian business. The Roxhill joint venture that we entered into in 2016 has propelled our big box business in the U.K. And obviously, you know, 12 months ago, we bought Sofibus, which was listed in Paris. M&A is absolutely an option, and, you know, I'm sure as you'd expect, we do keep an eye on everything out there. I say whether it's quoted or not.

The reality is it does take two to tango. A lot of these entities are family or founder controlled. Clearly, pricing has moved up strongly. You know, all of it, everything that we're doing, everything in the market is all pretty public. Finding a situation that we can get involved with, but also that fits our very key criteria about, you know, being in the very best locations and owning the very best places where the land is constrained, that we can deliver those-

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Deliver those.

Soumen Das
CFO and Executive Director, SEGRO

Going forward. That's the challenge. You know, finding opportunities that fit all of our filter is the challenge. You know, it's not, certainly not a stretch. It's finding the ones that work for us.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

I mean, we have you know just building on that we you know do have our radar screen turned on and are looking and continue to look Marcus. It's just a question, as Soumen says, of finding something that is a good enough fit that if there's a lot of repositioning or work to do, we think it is deliverable within a reasonable timeframe in the locations we want to be in. If we find that sort of thing, we wouldn't be afraid to you know have a good go at it. As Soumen said, we've done some. Yeah, that's kind of our general view.

This may not be your question, but we're definitely not just looking to buy stuff that bulks up scale, you know, lots more big boxes in secondary locations with weaker quality than our average portfolio would give us, you know, more scale but less return. Just doesn't really work for us.

Marcus Phayre-Mudge
Fund Manager, Head of Real Estate Securities, BMO Global Asset Management

No, I get that. Absolutely, that's yeah, you can leave that for other people to do. This is more, I'm thinking more in terms of strategic land.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Yeah.

Marcus Phayre-Mudge
Fund Manager, Head of Real Estate Securities, BMO Global Asset Management

You know, good very high quality portfolios. They're just occasionally, as you found with the various deals going all the way back to Brixton, these opportunities pop up.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Yeah.

Marcus Phayre-Mudge
Fund Manager, Head of Real Estate Securities, BMO Global Asset Management

They're relatively short notice. Things have to be done relatively quickly. It was just a question of whether you were, you know. As you say, your radar is turned on. That's great.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Yeah.

Marcus Phayre-Mudge
Fund Manager, Head of Real Estate Securities, BMO Global Asset Management

My other question is unrelated, if I may. It's about multistory. You, I think, mentioned about the multistory data centers. I think you started to, I mean, leaving aside the old Brixton ex whatever it's called, you know, that multistory. I'm thinking more dense urban situations. Do you see your tenants' roster beginning to get their head around being on the second or third floor, particularly in very dense markets? Or is it just they just, you know, it just doesn't suit them unless you can provide take up so much space with those with the, you know, service goods lifts or whatever, that it doesn't. It's not economic. I mean, just a-

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Yeah, yeah. No, sure.

Marcus Phayre-Mudge
Fund Manager, Head of Real Estate Securities, BMO Global Asset Management

General, more general comment on future multistory.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Yeah. Andrew will pick up on that one.

Andy
Managing Director, Development, SEGRO

Pick up on, yeah, sure. Morning, Marcus. Yeah, we do see a place for multilevel, and we believe our customers do too. It does have to be, as you've identified, very sort of dense urban locations where frankly the choice isn't there. I think still, given a choice, probably somebody would take single level as opposed to multilevel. But our belief is that land supply, land price, the need to intensify in urban areas is not going to allow that single level, so you will have to go up. We've successfully done that already in Paris at the Port de Gennevilliers, where we speculatively constructed 650,000 sq ft, and we let it all prior to completion.

You may have seen we're just doing something in Park Royal in joint venture with Barratt, which is a significant building as well. Multilevel, in that case, seven stories, so high. We're gonna do something on the trading estate as well. We are looking at it very closely. What you do have to ensure is that operationally it works. Certainly, your kind of, you know, reference to former multilevel buildings, the design, the approach, has hugely moved on. You do have to have them operationally sound. You know, we've got IKEA in Gennevilliers. We know that a lot of the parcel companies will take multilevel space. We're very confident of that. Yeah, we think customers are there, and we think it'll be a good solution in certain situations.

Marcus Phayre-Mudge
Fund Manager, Head of Real Estate Securities, BMO Global Asset Management

Thank you very much.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Thank you.

Marcus Phayre-Mudge
Fund Manager, Head of Real Estate Securities, BMO Global Asset Management

That's all.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Okay. Maybe just one more question coming through.

Operator

Of course. Our next question is from Max Nimmo from Numis. Max, your line is open. Please go ahead.

Max Nimmo
Equity Research Analyst, Numis

Morning, guys. Thanks for that. I think Marcus has pretty much just asked the questions I was going to ask there. You know, if you look across London, and I'm not necessarily just talking about multistory, what kind of percentage of the portfolio do you feel you can densify in that respect? As I say, not just multistory. Are there other ways that you can do that?

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

I mean, I'm not sure we give you a lot of detail on that right now. I'm, you know, we're still doing some analysis and thinking through timescales and how we sequence some of these things. Probably across that kind of, you know, Slough and London portfolio, 10% or more of the portfolio could, over the coming years, be subject to some kind of intensification. It's something that we'll try and give a bit more, shed a bit more light on in future presentations.

Max Nimmo
Equity Research Analyst, Numis

That's great. Thank you.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Thank you. I think there was one more question in the room, if we can. Yes, go ahead. Thanks. There's a microphone in your seat. Yep. We'll do this one, and then we'll go to the web. There were some questions from the webcast or on the line.

Sophie Park
Analyst, Green Street

Good morning. Sophie Park from Green Street. Thanks for taking my question.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Hi, Sophie.

Sophie Park
Analyst, Green Street

Given that your balance sheet is showing a pretty stable LTV, how do you think about debt in the context that there is potential for your debt EBITDA to perhaps increase from here?

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Yeah, Soumen. It's more for you, I think.

Soumen Das
CFO and Executive Director, SEGRO

Yeah, of course. Look, we set our debt target in the context of LTV. We've been very consistent. We felt that 30% is where we would like to operate. As you've seen in the last, you know, few years, every time we've approached 30%, so frankly, the sphere of opportunity has expanded, we've come to the market to fund with some equity. The reality is we've been in the low 20% area now for some time, so we've got a lot of capacity against that target. I think you should expect the next slug of funding to fund the next things we do will come out of debt, not equity.

I've got to be honest, there's no good measure of leverage, debt to equity. Debt to EBITDA, net debt to EBITDA has its issues, mainly because the more prime your portfolio, the worse your ratio, which makes no sense to me at all. I'm afraid we monitor a variety of them, including net debt to EBITDA, including LTV and others, and it's really a mix. Obviously, with a development program as large as ours as well, you will also have a bit of a lag between us taking the debt on and obviously the income coming through. Again, this is slightly solving for a number of things looking out 2-3 years.

Sophie Park
Analyst, Green Street

Thanks very much.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Very good. Thank you. Right. Claire has some questions that have been sent in via the web link.

Claire
Investor Relations, SEGRO

Yes. The first question is with regards to the SELP performance fee. A question of how much that could be and what the recognition of that would be in terms of whether there would be further clawbacks on the amount due next year.

Soumen Das
CFO and Executive Director, SEGRO

Sure. As mentioned, there is a fee potentially payable at 10 years , which is October 2023. It's calculated against some IRR hurdles. At the current valuation, at the December valuation, the fee would work out to be in the order of EUR 140 million, which is our net share. That fee would not be subject to any clawback at all.

Claire
Investor Relations, SEGRO

Thank you. Next question on photovoltaics. Have you made an assessment of how many panels you could add to the roof of your assets in your portfolio, and what could be the incremental revenues from those?

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

We have. Or at least we have an assessment going on, and Andy might like to just give you a bit of color on that.

Andy
Managing Director, Development, SEGRO

Yeah, we've got a pilot project going on in a number of schemes to just see how much we can essentially pack on the roofs. We would sell to the customer through PPA what the customer wants, and we're seeing the requirements of those customers increasing. They would get a pricing that was a little better for them. Obviously, the energy would be green, so fantastic from all respects. Any surplus power we could create, we're going to try and export to the grid. I have to say, that is quite a complicated, more complicated, bluntly, than it should be to export to the grid, with complexities and bureaucracies that need to be freed up.

We've got an assessment ongoing, we've got a pilot ongoing, and we're gonna see what we can do with it. That pilot, hopefully, we'll be able to update a little bit later in the year.

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Most, I mean, many of you will know the National Grid and equivalents in most European countries were set up to distribute power from generally coal-fired power stations to businesses and consumers. They weren't set up to have people plug in renewable energy all around the country on individual sites. There are, as Anthony said, all kinds of regulatory issues that get in the way across Europe as well. We've got this study. We think there's a huge capacity. We know there's a lot of opportunity, but we're doing this pilot study to just make sure we can work through some of those individual difficulties and come up with a model that works in each country.

The opportunity is fantastic, and clearly, as Andy said, I mean, customers love it. It would be a fantastic step forward in terms of our carbon reduction targets if we can make some progress there.

Claire
Investor Relations, SEGRO

Thank you. Another question from Osman at UBS. On new leases, with them setting the new higher rental terms for the estates, how representative are they for the typical occupier? Can you reassure us that unaffordable and sustainable rental levels are not being forced on existing tenants?

David Sleath
CEO, SEGRO

Andy?

Andy
Managing Director, Development, SEGRO

We don't feel so, Osman. The affordability sort of question does come up. I think we've said before, you know, actually the rental piece of the sort of occupational cost and business cost of most of our occupiers is relatively small. We haven't seen any difficulties with affordability. The other query we get at times is it just a very small and narrow band of people that will take that space at that rent? That also doesn't seem to be the case. There seems to be a plethora of different businesses and different business types that are prepared to pay those rentals. We think it's pretty stable. The truth is some people will not pay or not be able to pay.

It's a small minority, and we usually work with those customers, and so far successfully have worked with those customers to find them some cheaper accommodation on other estates or close by space. We're working with customers on that. We haven't had much of a reaction, I have to say. I think the rents that you're seeing aren't just a, you know, a swallow, one swallow for summer. We think they're sustainable and affordable and can move forward.

Claire
Investor Relations, SEGRO

A final question from the webcast, from Alvaro at Exane. Just asking, you show GBP 4 million of rental income lost from assets moved back to redevelopment, which is about 1% of income. Where do you think that rate of redevelopments and space updates should stabilize?

Soumen Das
CFO and Executive Director, SEGRO

Should I take that?

Andy
Managing Director, Development, SEGRO

Yeah, sure.

Soumen Das
CFO and Executive Director, SEGRO

Sure. It really ties back into what David was mentioning earlier, which is, you know, frankly, as the rental levels across our markets and across our portfolios increase, actually the redevelopment opportunity, the opportunity to reposition and potentially intensify growth as well. David mentioned we think in the order of 10% potentially of our portfolio could give us the opportunity to create new assets over the coming years. I think that 1 maybe 1%-2% per annum feels about right, frankly.

Andy
Managing Director, Development, SEGRO

Okay, that's all we have. Thank you everybody, especially those who are here in person. Thank you everybody else for joining us, and I look forward to seeing you next time hopefully, again in a room together. Thanks a lot. Have a great day and a great weekend, and avoid the worst of the storms.

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