Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ronak Saraf, Investor Relations Manager. Thank you, and over to you...
Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the Advanced Enzyme Technologies Q4 and FY 2024 earnings conference call. We hope you all have received our financial press release and the PPT, which has been posted in the IR section of our website. We have with us Mr. Mukund Kabra, Whole-Time Director; and Mr. Beni Prasad Rauka, Group CFO. Today, the management will discuss the performance and business highlights, update on strategies, and respond to any questions that you may have. As is usual, for ease of discussion, we will look at the consolidated financials. Before we proceed, I would like to draw your attention to the forward-looking statement contained in the PPT. During our call, we may make forward-looking statements regarding our expectation or prediction about the future.
Because these statements are based on our current assumptions and factors that may involve risk and uncertainty, our actual performance and results may differ materially from our forward-looking statements. So without any further ado, we shall commence this call. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Ronak. Good evening, everyone. I really appreciate you all for taking out your valuable time, and I extend a heartiest welcome to everyone joining us today on this conference call for the quarter and year ended March 31st 2024. Our business demonstrated resilient performance in financial year 2024, backed by our robust R&D pipeline and effective superior competitive product mix. The business development activities remained healthy during the year across all our divisions and geographies. During the year, we have posted our highest ever consolidated revenue. We have recorded a top line growth of 15% and bottom line growth of 32%. The margin has improved. EBITDA margin improved by 400 basis points, while PAT margins by 300 basis points.
During quarter four, there is one-time impact of INR 151 million on profitability, profitability due to adverse judgment of the courts in lawsuit in one of our U.S. subsidiaries, AST Enzymes. Now, I will take you through the quarterly performance. We have achieved top line of INR 1,578 million, growth of 14% on a year-on-year basis, and 2% decline on sequential basis in quarter four. Our EBITDA stood at INR 554 million, grew by 26% on year-on-year basis and 3% on sequential basis. We have seen a decline of 7% in the bottom line on year-on-year basis and 30% on sequential basis.
There is further improvement witnessed in EBITDA margin at 35%, as compared to 29% for quarter four of last year, while PAT margins declined to 19% during the quarter four, as compared to 23% for quarter four of last year. Double-digit growth in the bottom line is because of our improved top line, change in product mix, and higher other income. The overall trend across our business has remained upbeat. Now, I will take you through the segment-wise performance. Our human nutrition division. The human nutrition segment, as usual, remained the highest contributor in the revenue pie at 65% in quarter four. It grew by 17% on year-on-year basis, while it declined by 7% on sequential basis. During financial year 2024, we have witnessed a growth of 18% on year-on-year basis. Contribution of domestic and international markets remained equal.
API and probiotic mainly supported the growth in human nutrition business. Animal nutrition. Our animal nutrition business contributed 12% to the revenue in quarter four. This segment, it grew by 10% on year-on-year basis, while it grew 14% on sequential basis. This business declined by 5% during financial year 2024. Bioprocessing. During the quarter, bioprocessing segment contributed 16% to the revenue. It grew by 35% on year-on-year basis and 9% on sequential basis. For full year, this segment grew by 21%, food business grew by 30%, and non-food business de-grew by 6%, respectively, on year-on-year basis. The specialized manufacturing segment contributed 7% in quarter four and de-grew by 2% on year-on-year basis, and grew 7% on sequential basis in quarter four. During financial year 2024, this business reported a year-on-year growth of 19%.
A brief on key developments during this year. We have received approval of two food enzyme dossiers from FSSAI. Over and above, we also received no question letter for our two GRAS filings with USFDA. All of these enzymes will be used as a food processing aid for different food products. During the year, we have also acquired an additional stake of 5.89% in JC Biotech for the total cash consideration of INR 56.07 million. Now, the shareholding of the Advanced Enzymes in JCB has increased to 95.72%. We have initiated small steps towards clean energy as our one of the ESG initiatives. We have installed and made operational 160 kW solar power plant in financial year 2024.
Another 350 kW solar plant installation is under progress and will be operational by November 2024. As we enter the new financial year with strong foundation, our focus will continue to remain on improving margins, prioritizing customer retention, strengthen R&D, foreign business opportunities in new geographies, expand solutions and product offerings, register more products across global regulatory bodies, and to look for strategic inorganic opportunities. We will bring more resilience in our business to enhance customer value proposition and deliver long-term sustainable growth going ahead. With this, I conclude my remarks and now hand over this call to Mr. Rauka, who will talk you through the financials and key subsidiary numbers.
Thank you very much, Mukund. Good evening, everyone. I hope you all are in good health. Let me brief you about the financials of the company during the quarter four and fiscal year 2024. On year-on-year basis, the revenue grew by about 191 million, 14% growth from INR 1,387 million- INR 1,578 million. EBITDA increased by INR 113 million from INR 441 million- INR 554 million. Profit before tax, but after exceptional items, as mentioned by Mukund, we had an exceptional item of about 151 million due to the adverse impact of one of the claim. So our profit before taxes decreased by INR 24 million, from INR 421 million- INR 397 million.
Profit after tax decreased by INR 22 million, from INR 321 million- INR 299 million. On sequential basis, the revenue decreased by INR 31 million, from INR 1,609 million- INR 1,578 million. EBITDA is increased by INR 16 million from INR 538 million- INR 554 million. Profit before tax and after exceptional item, decreased by INR 192 million, from INR 589 million- INR 397 million. If I remove the impact of exceptional item, the profit before tax stood at INR 547 million as compared to INR 462 million. Profit after tax decreased by INR 126 million, from INR 425 million- INR 299 million. Again, here, the impact of this exceptional item.
On year-on-year basis, our revenue grew by 15% from INR 5,406 million to INR 6,239 million. EBITDA increased by INR 481 million from INR 1,564 million to INR 2,045 million. Now, EBITDA for FY 2024 stood at 33% as compared to 29% in FY 2023. Profit before tax, but after exceptional item, increased by INR 475 million from INR 1,404 million- INR 1,879 million. Profit after tax increased by INR 331 million from INR 1,039 million- INR 1,370 million. The PAT is 22% of our revenue, as compared to 19% in FY 2023. I would like to read some of the numbers of our subsidiary companies.
JC Biotech sales in Q4 stood at INR 143 million, with EBITDA of INR 18 million and PAT of INR 3 million, as compared to Q4 of last year, INR 107 million of sales, negative EBITDA of INR 3 million and a loss of INR 10 million. So JC Biotech, during FY 2024, revenue is INR 626 million as compared to INR 502 million, a top line growth of 25%. EBITDA, INR 77 million as compared to INR 14 million in FY 2023, and PAT at INR 18 million as compared to negative INR 18 million in FY 2023. Evoxx's revenue stood at INR 64 million, with EBITDA of INR 4 million and profit of INR 5 million in Q4, as compared to INR 58 million, INR 20 million, and INR 11 million respectively during Q4 of FY 2023.
The Evoxx during fiscal year 2024, the top line is INR 213 million, and FY 2023 was INR 241 million. EBITDA of negative 8 million during FY 2024, as compared to +59 million in FY 2023. PAT is negative, so a loss of about INR 21 million as compared to profit of INR 21 million in FY 2023. SciTech sales stood at INR 114 million during Q4 of FY 2024, with 20 million of EBITDA and PAT of INR 25 million, as compared to INR 117 million of sales and 24 million of EBITDA and INR 12 million of PAT during Q4 of FY 2023. On fiscal year basis, SciTech top line stood at INR 418 million, as compared to INR 353 million, 18% growth in top line.
EBITDA at INR 58 million as compared to negative INR 6 million, and PAT of INR 37 million as compared to loss of INR 62 million during FY 2023. The sale of the largest product during the quarter stood at INR 279 million, and for the year, it is about INR 1,310 million, as compared to INR 1,290 million in FY 2023. Top ten customer sale is about 26% as compared to 24% in FY 2023. B2C segment contributed about INR 1 million as compared to INR 1.21 million in FY 2023. Our R&D expenditure during the year is about INR 274 million, as compared to INR 290 million in FY 2023. Percentage of R&D expenditure on consolidated basis, we spend about 4.858% as compared to 5.06%.
This is without, you know, eliminating the intercompany transactions. During the year, there was some lower CapEx. On consolidated basis, R&D spend is about 3.2% as compared to 4.22%. It is after elimination. That is all from my side. We shall open the floor for question answer.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We'll take our first question from the line of Nikhil Mathur from HDFC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good evening, everyone. Thank you so much for the opportunity. So my first question is on the growth that you have registered in the Human Nutrition business of 14% in FY 2024. Is it possible to give some broad sense as to how this growth is split between volume, pricing, and new products?
Good afternoon, Nikhil, but it's difficult to give the breakup because we don't track with volume and this. It's a mix of products. It's a new product as well as our existing product. But I can't give you the bifurcation in terms of volume and other things. We don't track.
Okay. I mean, qualitatively, what has been the pricing behavior in your products in FY 2024? Has it still been deflationary, or have you been able to pass on some bit of high input cost that we have seen in the last couple of years? So any broad sense on that?
It's more stationary, Nikhil.
From FY 2024, not much change has happened on the pricing front?
Yes.
Okay. How is the input cost behaving now, for you as a company? I mean, do you see any positive or negative surprises on the input cost front, or it is quite stable? And also the outlook for the coming year in terms of input cost, how do you see that?
Input cost, more or less, is stable in terms of raw material prices and other prices, and we expect the same to continue.
Okay, got it. Next is on the mix in the coming two to three years. So, so Human Nutrition pre-COVID was at 85% total business mix. It is now at around 78%. Where do you see the Human Nutrition contribution in the coming two to three years? And why I ask this is because I believe this is the most highest gross margin business across all the businesses. So I think this mix has a broad implication of how your gross margin will progress in the coming two to three years. So any sense on where the Human Nutrition business contribution will stay in, let's say, in 2025, 2026, 2027?
We expect it to grow, but in terms of percentage, probably it will be between 65%-70%, because there are some other businesses as well. It should be between the same range what we are continuing.
So, does that mean that the gross margins which you have currently at the consolidated level, that kind of remain stable in the coming years? Is there limited ability for that to improve?
It should improve. It will always improve as we grow, this should improve. And we expect it to improve further, because we expect like somewhat growth has to come back from, even from the U.S. now, and that will really improve.
Okay. Okay. Also, if I look at... I mean, this question has been asked previously, but I'll just attempt it again in a different way. So your gross margins today are roughly 3-4 percentage points lower than what it used to be on a pre-COVID levels. But your EBITDA margin today is around 11%-12% lower than what it was pre-COVID. So that means there are significant OpEx build-ups that has happened in the PNL, which is obviously not getting properly absorbed. Can you talk about what exactly has happened on the OpEx front in the last four to five years, due to which you are at a margin profile which is much lower than what you should be at? And then, how this will change in the coming years?
So, Nikhil, I think, the EBITDA margin is going down basically because of, you know, couple of things. One is like, you know, the sale mix has changed. And another is, you know, my revenue from the US. So the impact of both is like, you know, that creates that kind of, you know, gap in the EBITDA margin. But of course, you know, if you see last year and, if we compare the EBITDA 29%-33% this year, so there is, of course, some improvement. But yes, the one particular impact, which is like, you know, as in the first question, whether the increase in the prices, in the sale prices has happened. So, you know, that cost, whatever input cost has already elevated, that elevated cost, you know, it is very difficult to pass on to the customers.
So because of that, you know, overall there is a pressure on the margins. And in addition to that, if you have observed the power and fuel cost, you know, because of, you know, the overall pricing has gone up. So because of that, what has happened, the EBITDA margin is under pressure in that sense. But yes, it has stabilized. As we mentioned, that input cost now appears to be at a stationary level. We are not seeing any, you know, any, substantial increase and significant increase in that. So OpEx overall, I think still it is under control, to that, to that extent. And, yes, the impact, because, you know, you are not able to pass on the higher cost to the customers. And then, of course, there is a change in the product mix, so that has created this issue.
In addition to that, the U.S. business, it has to grow, so because you have a better margin over there.
Any visibility emerging, sir, on the U.S. business? Is it on the cusp of a turnaround or there can be still some time before you start seeing the order book building on the U.S. front?
So it has improved this year, which you have seen. U.S. business has improved this year, and we see that kind of, you know, continued growth now.
Okay. And just one final question, sir. Again, sticking on the OpEx front, I think FY 2024 has been a year of optimization on the cost on the cost front as well, because your A&G is up only 6% YoY, and your employee cost is up 12% YoY, whereas revenues are 15%. So does that mean that there's a need to invest into manpower and admin and overheads in FY 2025? And unless the growth is, let's say, in mid-teens, high teens, wouldn't it be difficult to grow margins from where your current situation is?
We expect the margins to grow. We expect the growth should be like, somewhere around, like, in double digits, as you mentioned, but that should not be a problem, because the coming year, we expect a little more growth from the U.S., U.S. side as well.
Any guidance around the margin front, the EBITDA margin, what should we expect in 2025, 2026?
I can't, I can't, talk on the EBITDA margin at this point of time, but, the top line should be between, as you said, like between 13%-16%, somewhere around there.
Okay. Got it. Sure, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Nitish from ChrysCapital. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you for taking my question-
Mr. Nitish, may I request you to use your handset mode, please? We are not hearing audible.
Yeah, I'm on my handset. Is, is it better? Hello?
Yes, Nitish.
Yeah. Is it better?
Yes, Nitish.
Yeah. So, so I wanted to ask. Sorry, you mentioned that, just a bookkeeping question. You mentioned 13%-16% top line growth outlook for FY 2025?
Yeah, that's right.
Okay. So, one more question, specifically on the USA side. So USA has grown, you know, 32% year-on-year in fourth quarter and 9% in FY 2024. So what is your, you know, outlook for the USA business in FY 2025, and what will be our drivers for growth in this business?
...So we mentioned, like last time also, like, we introduced couple of segments, like on the weight management and other areas and the sugar management, and those are the products which are going to drive the growth for this year as well.
Okay. On EU also, EU has also performed well in FY 2024. So what would be our growth outlook in EU? You mentioned that there are some enzymes you've got regulatory approval for, right, in the start, in your opening comments. So what kind of revenue potential do those enzymes have, like?
So it's not exactly like converting. I can't give you, like, the revenue potential in terms of approvals, but those approvals were, like, pending from last 2013, 2014, and still, like, EU has not, like, completed the list. During that time, like, we applied about somewhere around 13, 14, and we are still waiting for the approval. But, as of now, like, it is not stopped unless until they come out with the positive list. So I cannot just say that, there will be a substantial growth right now, but, that will, allow us to continue our sales after also, like, the guidelines will come up. So that's how it is, but it's really difficult to convert into the, revenue or sales.
As in terms of EU and other business, particularly on the food area, it is growing, and we expect next year, like, to have a decent growth in those areas as well.
Okay. Okay. And our EBITDA margin has increased to, you know, 35% in Q4. Is this sustainable? And what would be the steady state margin going into FY 2025?
So I think, you know, what, what we have mentioned is if you really look at, you know, quarter, it's difficult to comment on that. But yes, on—if you look at annual numbers from 29%-33%, this is what, you know, we can expect.
Okay. Okay. My final question is on capital allocation. So we have around INR 500 crore of cash on the balance sheet, and we generate around INR 100 crore of cash every year. So, you know, any thoughts on the capital allocation strategy?
I think, as far as allocation is concerned, if you have observed that, you know, last year we have declared interim dividend. This year we are continuing with the interim dividend, and apart from that, we are keeping the, you know, cash with us to make sure that, you know, whenever we have some opportunity, we use that money to expand our business. And, you know, apart from that, the normal capital expenditures and even like our R&D, R&D setup, which we are building up. Yeah. So we are continually investing also in that.
Okay. Okay, so, Okay, understood. So, okay, so, so you mentioned EBITDA margin would be in the 33% range, right, annual level going ahead also?
So right now, that's what we are saying, because, you know, this is what it is as of now. But of course, going forward, you know, we see improvement. If you might have observed from, you know, our finance, financial numbers, so if our top line grow by, say, 1 percentage point, then the EBITDA margin is increasing by 2%. So that, you know, that will give you some indication as you progress.
Okay, okay. Yeah, that's also my side. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Gaurav Nigam from Tunga Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you, sir, for taking my question. So one question on this human nutrition, I think you, you used to give this breakup between India and international and between the subsegments of pharma, probiotic and biocatalyst. It'd be great if you can provide that for this quarter also.
Okay. Yeah. So I mean, you know, the pharma business, I can say human nutrition business during quarter four is about INR 513 million in India, and-
Mm-hmm.
International sales is about INR 511 million. So total is about INR 1,024 million. Do you want more granular numbers?
Yeah, I mean, within India, the pharma business, the probiotics and the biocatalysis.
So yeah, pharma is INR 402 million, probiotics about INR 63 million, and biocatalysis about INR 48 million within India.
For the international markets, sir?
Yeah, it's, you know, mainly it comes from the human nutrition, so about INR 488 million has come from the, you know, human nutrition. And probiotic is, roughly about INR 18 million, balance biocatalysis is about INR 5 million.
Okay. Understood, sir. And so, in the U.S. market, I think in the last con call, you had indicated that there was a sequential improvement in demand last quarter. Just wanted to understand if the de... seeing from the market on the overall demand scenario in the U.S.?
The overall demand situation is, I mean, as such, I think Q4, there was some pressure on that, but apart from that, the visibility is better.
Mr. Nigam, does that answer your question? Mr. Nigam, we are unable to hear you.
... Hello?
Yes, please go ahead.
Sorry. Yeah, understood, sir. Sir, one more thing on our largest product side, there has been two quarters of continuous decline. Is there something to read into that? What is happening there, and what are the reasons for that?
Are you talking about the numbers, the total, I mean, the revenues from the particular product?
Mr. Nigam?
Yeah, I was talking about the animal revenue, which has declined 8%, 16% this quarter and 8% last quarter.
Yeah. So this is all like, you know, depends on the stock position of, you know, our customers. And we do have some distributors, so you know, it varies from quarter to quarter. But overall basis, if you look at, you know, the annual number, you see some kind of a growth, which is of course, 2% only. But yes, there is a growth in that.
Understood. There is nothing like we are not losing market share on this particular product, right, sir? Just to confirm.
I think Mukund will be able to comment.
Not really, but always, there is always a competition which always will be there. And we are talking about the competition from last two, three years, and it will always be there in this segment.
Understood. Understood. And sir, just the last question on rest of the world, which is that geography that we declare every quarter, there has been sequential, like two quarters of decline there as well. What is the business we are doing there, and is there something that you can highlight on what is the reason for the decline?
Are you talking about human nutrition?
No, rest of the world segment, which you declare within the geos: India, America, Europe, Asia, India, and rest of the world, right? That you declare.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
So, in that, the rest of the world, there has been two consecutive quarters of decline, almost 40% and 30%. So, wanted to understand what is happening there, if you can help understand.
I think if you really look at on, you know, yearly basis, fiscal year basis.
Mm-hmm
... This is of about 3%, from INR 106 million- INR 189 million. This is about-
Mm-hmm
78%. So generally, Mr. Nitish, we always mention that, you know, it is very difficult on when you compare the quarterly performance of-
Understood. Okay. Okay, okay. Better to look at from annual basis. Okay.
Yeah.
Okay. Understood, sir. Thank you. Thank you for answering my question.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Harini Dedhia from Tamohara Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening. My question was on the product that you mentioned regarding sugar and weight management. One, is this going to be a America geography only product, or is this something that's going to be across the board, like across all geographies?
At this point of time, we are focusing on American geography and with a few clients.
Okay. So, we are going to be doing so we'll be manufacturing for other brands, right? And this will be an OTC product.
Yeah, it will be OTC. We will not be manufacturing for others, but we will be supplying the, what we can call it as a raw material supplier, not the capsule suppliers.
Okay. What would sort of be the opportunity size of this, versus, you know, the prescription medicine form of GLP-1 that we've seen, which has obviously blown up? But what would be the size of such an opportunity?
Difficult to comment, but at this point of time, we see a good traction. We are, like, very careful. At this point of time, I can't comment too much on this product, but we see a different growth as we move on into these areas.
Okay, so this is last question, then. What is the nature of our customers on for these products? Would they be, you know, large nutraceutical companies in the US? Or, who would the buyers be?
Yes, I could say rightly got it.
Yeah, right. The nutraceutical companies are mainly like MLM kind of a market at this point of time.
Okay, got it. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Sajil Kapoor, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, thanks for the opportunity. I have three questions, and with your permission, I would like to ask them one by one, please. On industrial bioprocessing, over the last five, six years, this area has outpaced both our human and animal nutrition. And given the global sustainability trend, do you believe that 20% growth rate of this segment is likely to sustain?
I can't comment on that, but if you remember, like, from, like, last three to four years, like, we are always saying that this is one of our focus areas. We are really focusing on it. A lot of, like, research is also going into these areas, and we are coming up with the new product pipeline. There will be some dips and there will be some bumps going ahead. But yeah, more or less, we see, like, because our base is also not very big, we should have a decent growth into this area.
Yeah, that's helpful. And second, on the B2B, probiotics and biocatalysts, area, so both these sort of sub-segments have a large untapped potential today, but the product approval process perhaps is taking longer than what you might have anticipated. Is that a fair assumption? Because I understand that it's a sticky business and difficult to get a product approval on the customer end, but is it taking longer than what you might have expected ultimately?
Yes, there are a few more reasons. One is it is taking little longer as well. There are a lot of, like, price variation and fluctuation also happens internationally and globally, and that affects. At the same time, it's like all the research driven, so a lot of products are under the research, but you cannot be, like, sure what will be the timeline when they will come out. You see a lot of positivity, but it took little longer. And in the last time also, I said, like, it took little longer than what we expected, and I still feel it should have a good potential to go ahead.
Thank you. And then, third question is on Evoxx. So this business has reported losses this fiscal, both at the EBITDA and the net level. So can you shed some light on the underlying reasons, and more importantly, the longer term prospects here, and how do you see the contract research and development opportunity, in Evoxx?
So, Evox is always our R&D arm. Lot of biocatalysts development is also happening at Evox. We were doing, like, some contract business as well at Evox, contract research kind of things. And those like, we did have a contract, but somehow they, they didn't materialize last year. And, we don't expect too much of a growth on the Evox on a revenue front, but, we expect generally, like, it should be revenue neutral. Last year, we couldn't do that because of like, our, like, research, contract research was little on the lower side. Some of the contracts didn't materialize. And that is where, like, we have taken an impairment as well this year, into our balance sheets, impairment of about INR 18-19 crore.
Yeah.
Okay? On the Advanced Nutrition balance sheet, if you look at it, we have taken impairment loss as well. Going forward, we see that it should be revenue neutral. I won't say, like, too much of a revenue expansion on that front, but it is a good R&D arm for us.
Right. So we see Evoxx more as a captive in-house R&D rather than extending the capabilities out for other customers on a B2B model.
Yes. So, generally the half of the revenue comes from the inside, and half of it comes from the outside, and the outside revenue is a little bit on the lower side last quarter, last year.
Okay. Okay. Okay, thank you so much. Helpful.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Jainam Gilani from Swan Investments. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So since there is so much untapped opportunity in probiotics, are we planning to acquire any company so that we can gain customers?
Well, we are always in search, but, if you come across any good company, please let us know. We are always looking for it.
Okay. Usually, what is our contract length, and is it possible to give us any form of order book?
No, sir. In our business, there is no contract as such or the order book kind of things. Generally order to order, but you know the customers and you know the trends, and that is where it's always difficult to predict exact numbers of revenue, what it will be and exactly how it will be, and quarter on quarter, how they will move.
Okay, sir. Thank you. That's it from my side.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Lakshmi Narayanan KG from Tunga Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you so much. Couple of questions. So last year, you have grown U.S. at close to 9%-10%. So, what kind of growth you expect for next couple of years?
Lakshmi Narayanan, it should at least maintain the 10%.
Got it. Okay. Okay. And on the Europe food business, just want to understand how the growth has come in the last one year. If I just take break Europe and into Europe food and non-food, you know, what has been the growth in the food business of Europe and non-food business?
So food is like mostly like we are focusing on the baking side, and we are like focusing more in the India as well, like on these areas, particularly baking and other businesses as well. So, I don't have an exact number to break it up, how much is the food and how much is the other, in terms of particular Europe or other areas.
Got it. The reason I'm asking this is, I think couple of years back, maybe two years back or so, we were getting some dossiers confirmed, and which helped us to make inroads into the Europe food industry. And we are seeing a lot of potential. Just want to understand how that is panning out?
The potential is still there. Like, it's always Europe and difficult to crack, since we are like an Indian company, but you get some success, and it's continued. I won't say that we got the success to... I mean, the way we expected, but still it is going very well.
Got it. So, if you look at, you know, maybe the next year, the next couple of years, which are the levers that will actually will pull the company in terms of revenue growth? You know, for example, within India, whether it will be the animal food or the SciTech or probiotics, how are you thinking? Because Europe, even US, you mentioned, Europe also, you clarified. So from the India, which segments will actually pull the growth for the company?
It will be food, it will be biocatalyst, and it should come up from what through the, even through the animal feed areas.
Got it. Correct. And SciTech , what kind of growth you expect?
SciTech , we are, like, launching the different new products. We just got, one of the, even like, what is that called? Pharma approval, okay. So one of our, like, product, we got just first one, like, effervescent, pharma approval. We see a good growth this year, going forward next year as well. I can't talk about two, three years down the line as of now because, the business makes always changes, but we see a different growth going forward, at least for the next two years, I can say that.
Got it. The last question is related to RM as well as logistics cost and difficulty in logistics. A year back, we were having, you know, issues on both the fronts. So have things normalized, both in terms of the raw material as well as logistics? Or how are you thinking, what do you see on the ground?
So some areas, the logistics cost is still on a higher side because of all this Red Sea conflict which is going on. But still it is okay and manageable. It's not really impacting to a very great level the way it used to be during the COVID time and other time.
Got it. Got it. Thank you, sir. I will come back to you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Abdul Puranwala from M3 Investment. Please go ahead.
Hello, am I audible?
Yes, but can you use your handset mode, please? It's not very clear.
Now it's working?
Okay, you can go ahead with your question.
Maybe I have only one question, sir. So what is the percentage of revenue from top one customer?
The revenue from?
Top one customer.
Top one customer?
Yeah.
4%-5%.
4%-5%. One more, one more question, sir. How much, like, in US, what is, what is our percentage of share, market share, in India as well?
So, percentage of market share, you know, we operate in different verticals, you know. So I mean, getting that kind of information is very difficult. It's not readily available in the market.
Okay, got it, got it. Do we have any pricing pressure from our main product, like [HSR]?
Little bit is always there on this side. When there is a competition, there is always a pricing pressures are always there. Some area you enjoy monopoly, some areas there is going to be the pricing pressure, and you need to evolve with the new ideas and new thoughts, and with the R&D, you need to improve your productivity. So these are the only solutions, right?
Right, sir. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Sanjana Mittal from Ratnatraya Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. I have three questions. So one is that on the other expenses side, just in this quarter, the other expenses have come down on a run rate basis. So can you give some color on, like, which major expense had, have facilitated this moderation? And, yeah, and your power-
Hi, Srijana, I'm sorry to interrupt. Can you use your handset mode, please? Your audio is not very clear.
I'm actually using the handset mode. Hello.
Can you speak a bit louder, please?
Yeah. So I was saying that I have three questions. So first question is on the other expenses side. So this, in this quarter, your other expenses have come down. So if you can give some color on which major expense heads have facilitated this moderation? And has your power and fuel cost, has it started coming down, or is it still on a higher side? That was the first question.
Other expenses. So you are talking about other expenses, the increase is because of, you know, the stores and spares and, you know, some,
... No, I, no, sir, actually, my question was that this quarter, on a run rate basis, it has come down, right? So which expense heads have helped in this reduction of your other expenses?
Yeah, I think my colleague will give you the response. Saraf is here. Saraf, go ahead.
On a quarter-on-quarter basis, there is some reduction in the total other operating expenses. Other expenses, mainly because of low professional expenses and some sales and other administration expenses, which is basically we had attended some conferences and exhibitions during the last quarter. So that is where basically there was a higher expenditure in the last quarter, which is not there in the current quarter. So-
Understood.
Some lower expense in the current quarter.
Understood. On the power and fuel cost side, has it started, like, has it started tapering off, or is it still on the higher side?
It's like more or less new normal now. It's stable.
Understood. Okay. And my second question is that, so you mentioned that, on a longer term basis, if we see that one reason why the EBITDA margins have come down is also because of the U.S. business. So can you give some directional sense of what would be broadly your delta between your EBITDA margins in the U.S. and the non-US business?
Delta. Can you please repeat this question?
Delta margin between U.S. and Indian business.
India and U.S. business.
Yeah. Yes, that's correct.
Yeah, we'll give you. So we have EBITDA margin of 37% in USA.
Understood.
India, it is about 29%.
Understood. Thank you, sir. That's very helpful. So just one last question from my side. So, pardon my ignorance, but, can you just throw some light on the process of a new molecule development? So does it happen on a pre-order basis, or do we develop it and then, we have a sales team, who then find the customer, relevant customer for it? How does that happen? If you can, help me understand that.
So new product development is always a longer process. It takes more than a year, some cases two years. So, you design a product, you design the thought process, then you design the molecule. Sometimes you need to do the application trials, then you have to go back to the protein engineering site. You need to modify the protein, and that is how it takes a very long time. And then it has to have a, productivity, which should match the industrial scale and all of that. And because, because of all of these cycles, you choose the molecule very carefully, depending on the market size, depending on the demand, and sometimes, like, with the, with the future, expectations on what, how it will come up.
But as far as the new product development is concerned, it takes longer time, and that is where, like, we always work with multiple products at a given time.
Understood. So it is not like a co-development with the customer, based on their requirement. It is-
We do have that model as well, where, like, we do work with the in the Evoxx. As I mentioned, like, a contractual research. That means, like, they develop the product for the other customers, and doing all the protein engineering and the other areas as well.
But is it-
It's a very small portion of our business.
Understood. Understood. Okay, so if I can just squeeze in one last question. The, you mentioned... When you mentioned the focus segments, in India you highlighted animal feed area, if I'm not wrong, food and biocatalyst. So, on the human nutrition side, pharma or pharma and probiotics, don't we see that those segments to be growing much from here?
They will be growing, but they will be growing normal, like as what the pharma industry grows, but these are the areas which should give us the additional growth.
Understood, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for answering the questions.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Rohit Awari from Progressive Shares. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir, a couple of questions. First one being, are we looking at setting up some R&D facilities? If yes, then how many of these over the next two years?
So, Rohit, as we like, discussed last time also, we have already taken a 15-acre land in, during the COVID time, in Nashik, in Wadivarhe areas. We are coming up with a new R&D center. Right now, we are building up, about 120,000 sq ft building. That should be like more than like, in the first phase of operation, it should be more than three. I think, like, it should be around 3x of our current R&Ds, what we are doing. So yes, in the next two years, we will be spending, chunk of money, maybe about somewhere around INR 30 crore-INR 40 crore, developing these R&D centers.
INR 30 crore-INR 40 crore per year or just for the two years?
Next two years.
Okay. So next question is related to the market share. I was trying to understand the reason as to why there's a slight bit of decline in the Animal Nutrition business. Is it because we are losing market share, or is it because the competitors are doing well? Or is it that there is something entirely different that is happening in the industry and everybody is losing market share?
...This is a challenging industry. There are a lot of competitors that are always, always there. There are always the small players, big players. At the same time, there are, like, some businesses which sometimes pop up, and sometimes you lose some of the expected revenues or sales, what you expect. For example, last year, I think there was mad cow or some kind of a disease in the Malaysia area-
Mm-hmm.
And we, we lost, like some of the, like, expected business because of that. There was no farming. And these things continues into these areas. But at the same time, we are coming out with the new products and new areas, and we expect it to grow.
Okay. And sir, on the U.S. side, is it possible to give the market share as per your estimates, that what you think is your market share in U.S.?
It's difficult, but I guess like somewhere around 15% when we talk about nutraceutical areas. And the other areas, it may be very, very small.
Okay. Okay. Sir, of these, subsidiaries and, the shut down subsidiaries, do you think that there are certain more non-performing assets, which can either be merged or which can be dissolved? Because we saw two of such cases, one in Malaysia and one in U.S. So do you think that these kind of events or NPAs can help reduce the admin cost or admin time also?
I think like Malaysia was pending from last many years, like, we were trying to merge it. It's finally closed it. And also like in U.S., we did like lot of restructuring as well, right, Rajnish?
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Any more such events in future, if we can, if we can expect or something like that?
As of now, I don't see anything, which is pending or which, which is on our radar.
Anything on the one-off or the contingency that we see in the consolidated numbers, do you think there are any more such cases which can put a dent in the consolidated profits?
Business is always full of risk. I can't comment on that, but as of now, like, I don't see any, any other thing which is there in like... but it's always a risk. And what will pop up tomorrow, you never know, right?
Mm-hmm. But any such cases that we are already fighting with or something that can pop up?
No, we are not fighting anymore any other cases like
Okay.
As of now.
Sir, my last question. Do you think that you'll be a 1,000 crore top line company by 2028, 2029, with approximately, gross margins of some 77%-78% kind of a range?
You're talking about growth contribution?
The range is also fine. Over the next five years or so, is it that you'll have scribbled some ambitious target of reaching INR 1,000 crore top line?
Yes, that target is always there. We need to grow about 14%-16% to reach to that target.
Yes, sir.
We are, like, trying our own. That's our math. Let's see.
Mm-hmm.
how the thing progresses.
Okay, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot, and all the best for this ambitious target of INR 1,000 crore. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Alisha Mahawla from Envision Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity. I hope I'm audible.
Ma'am, can you speak louder, please? Your volume is very low.
Am I audible now?
Yes, Alisha.
Sir, I know this was already asked earlier, but the growth in the Human Nutrition that we've seen, I agree, is on the low, is on a low base. But can we understand, is this a particular geography that has probably come back for us, or is this just new products, but the lead, I hope, which is probably now at the end of the runway?
Human Nutrition. No, so Human Nutrition is not on a lower base. I was talking about on the food business, during that time.
Mm.
But yeah, like human nutrition, we're talking like some growth has to come up from the U.S. going forward, and some has to come up from the B2C in this area, in the coming few years.
No, I'm saying for the existing year, we grew at 18%. Just trying to understand, is this because growth has come back in the U.S. market?
U.S. is about 9%, and the rest is from the domestic market.
Okay. And going forward, like you were mentioning, that, you know, U.S. will come back and probably some new product also. This should aid in margin improvement, right? Because earlier in the call, we did mention that we're expecting margins to stay at the existing levels. But there can be increase in margins going forward because contribution from U.S. increases and some of the supply chain issues we're facing because of that, that we also cool off probably in the next year. So can we work with a similar kind of margin expansion in 2025 as we witnessed in 2024?
Well, we always expect like a margin expansion as we move on. At the same time, how much percentage is very difficult to say. On an average, when we talk about, like, we should grow, sometimes, like some other businesses will grow and some businesses will take a back seat. Like, the way, like, this year it was, animal feed. But that is how it will always happen. And it's very difficult to say, and that is where we have a range of the products and range of the focus areas as well.
Okay.
... Thank you. Before we take the next question, we'd like to remind participants to press star and one to ask a question. We'll take the next question from the line of Rusmik Oza from 9 Rays EquiResearch. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So my question was on probiotics only. Referring to the slide 25 in the presentation, you know, the market size is around $48 billion as per the presentation, and our revenue is around INR 30 crore, which is 5% of our revenue. What kind of opportunity, in terms of, sorry, getting in terms of revenue we are targeting for probiotics business in the next three to five years? And is the probiotics business margins at par with the company level of 33%, or are there any difference in that?
So, we don't see the probiotic business very separately. It's very difficult for us to track because most of our formulation in U.S. is a mix of enzymes and probiotics, and that is where we don't, we don't separate it out. And the probiotics what we report is just a pure probiotic sales. So it's always difficult, but this is this area which is growing. It helps us to grow into many of our solutions as well.
Okay. Okay. And the second question, sir: What could be our current capacity utilization? And to achieve this 15% CAGR kind of a target that we are looking for, what kind of capital expenditure we'll have to do instead to maintain maybe this run rate of 14%-15% growth?
The capacity should be about 65% utilization. Difficult to say, because it's always a cat and mouse game. At the same time, when there will be the 80% utilization, probably we will go for it. For the expansion, we will build up slowly, slowly, small areas, so that we can build it up with very fast. So it's a continuous process, and we will work on that. The moment we reach to 80%, we will place the orders.
Okay. Okay. So is it fair to say maybe that this utilization will peak out in FY 2026 or something?
Depends on the product mix, so it's very difficult for me to predict as of now, like, how the capacity utilizations will happen.
Okay. Okay, okay. Thank you, sir. That's it from my side.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and one on your phone now. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ronak Saraf for closing comments. Over to you.
Thank you everyone for taking the valuable time for attending our earnings conference call. We will keep you posted for any further updates. I request you all to kindly send in your questions that may remain unanswered. An audio recording and the transcript of this call will be uploaded on our website in due course. Looking forward to host you all in the next quarter. Till then, stay healthy, stay safe.
Thank you. On behalf of Advanced Enzyme Technologies Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.