Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Allcargo Logistics and Allcargo Gati Limited investors' conference call to discuss the composite scheme of arrangement. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
From the management we have with us today, Mr. Ravi Jakhar, Group Chief Strategy Officer, Allcargo Logistics; Mr. Deepal Shah, Group Chief Financial Officer, Allcargo Logistics; Mr. Pirojshaw Sarkari, Managing Director and CEO, GESCPL. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ravi Jakhar, Group Chief Strategy Officer, Allcargo Logistics. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah. Hi. Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. Hope you had a chance to look at the presentation uploaded on the stock exchanges, providing details of the scheme of arrangement that has been announced and approved by the boards of Allcargo Logistics and Allcargo Gati Limited. Let me begin with giving the context of the decision and details of the scheme. As you would be aware, over the last 3-4 years, as a group, we have been undergoing the journey of business transformation and corporate restructuring with an aim of making businesses strategically independent, providing financial flexibility, making the corporate structures very simple, and identifying core businesses for transformation and growth. Over this period, we have exited several small non-core businesses, we have divested non-core assets, and we have continuously strived towards simpler structures and robust growth.
As part of the earlier scheme of arrangement, which has already been concluded, CFS ICD business is already now listed under Allcargo Terminals, and the real estate business is now already listed under independent entity, TransIndia Real Estate. The two flagship businesses, which are asset-light, digitally focused businesses, international supply chain and domestic supply chain, continue to be under Allcargo Logistics. This scheme of arrangement will provide for creating two strategically independent undertakings, which can pursue higher growth objectives independently across these two businesses. On the transformation side, these businesses continue their journey towards digitization and growth, and this now, therefore, concludes our 3-4 -year program on restructuring and simplification, having exited all the non-core businesses, having divested all the non-core assets.
With this final leg of restructuring, the group would now have four businesses under four independently listed entities, driving each business with sharp management focus and independent, distinct shareholding structures. Coming to this final leg of transformation, facilitated by the scheme of arrangement, what we have done is that International Supply Chain business has been demerged into Allcargo ECU Limited. This would include the International Supply Chain business, which we do in India, as well as the business that we do across the world under various subsidiaries, under the group-level subsidiary, Allcargo's Belgium subsidiary, which is ECU Worldwide NV. So the International Supply Chain business, the India as well as international part, will get demerged into Allcargo ECU Limited. This is a very simple demerger, one-is-to-one mirror demerger.
For each one share of Allcargo, the shareholders will get one share of Allcargo ECU, and this therefore becomes a clean, independent, simple structure. On the remainder of the entities, as one would notice, there is a complex structure at this point in time with multiple step-down subsidiaries. The two operating business entities today are Gati Express Supply Chain, which houses the Express business, and Allcargo Supply Chain, which has the Contract Logistics business. By way of this composite scheme of arrangement, all these entities would collapse and become one unified entity, Allcargo Logistics, which will have both Express and Contract Logistics businesses. There will be no subsidiaries, no step-down structures, clean state shareholding in the hands of all shareholders of Allcargo and Allcargo Gati.
By way of this scheme of arrangement, there are multiple steps which have been provided in the detail, but eventually, what would be the final outcome is that the shareholders of Allcargo would continue to hold their shares. So as of date today, approximately 24.4 crore shares are there, and with the three-is-to-one bonus, that number would be about 98.3 crore shares. So those shares would continue in the resulting entity. In addition to that, the shareholders of Allcargo Gati, other than Allcargo, because Allcargo shareholding will get canceled out as a part of the scheme, but other than Allcargo, the other shareholders will get shares of Allcargo Logistics, which is the entity post demerger of international supply chain business, in a ratio of 63 shares for every 10 shares.
This basically means that roughly over 40 crore shares will be issued to shareholders of Allcargo Gati other than Allcargo, and the eventual total share number would be approximately about 139 crores. This is what the outcome would be in terms of creating this entity. The entity would now have the capabilities across both Express and Contract Logistics businesses, a much stronger balance sheet, and a much more synergistic business, which is very uniquely positioned to conquer the opportunities that are presented by the domestic supply chain ecosystem. To talk further about the impact of this realignment, simplification of structure, and coming together of Express and Contract Logistics businesses, I would request my colleague, Phil, to explain about how this works from a customer point of view and in the business context. Thank you. Over to you, Phil.
Thank you, Ravi, and good morning to all of you all. A lot of you all have been asking this question about Contract Logistics and Express businesses synergies coming together in the previous calls, and I think Ravi has explained from a legal structural point of view where we are heading. Allcargo Supply Chain business that we have today is a cash-rich business for us, and it will only enhance the balance sheet of the Allcargo Gati business. Having said that, the synergy is more on the business front. As I have been saying, India is moving to the next level of economy, and we are going to look at manufacturing coming in in a big way, which would require fulfillment logistics from a single partner.
Fulfillment logistics basically is about letting the manufacturer manufacture its goods and we fulfilling the orders that the manufacturer gets for selling their goods, which includes warehousing and distribution. Therefore, we will be uniquely placed as one organization, one single organization, who can give the warehousing as well as distribution, not just physically, but also digitally to the end customers, because we will be on one technology that we are building out. This will be the order-to-cash management that we talk about. This is on the front end to the customer on the top line, but there are so many synergies when you put two businesses together in optimizing costs for the organization, both from a sales perspective as well as an operational perspective. I see tremendous opportunity for us to optimize costs by getting these two businesses together.
As we move forward in the long run, we will see that most of the manufacturing that happens in India would require logistics, which is basically from port to their plants or factories, and then from factory to warehouse, and then again to the end customer or again to port. We would be uniquely placed to provide that service. With that, I will halt over here, and we will open ourselves to any questions that you all have.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mr. Nilesh Saha from Julius Baer. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi. Am I audible?
Yes.
Yes. Hi. Great. I think thank you both for doing this and also explaining your thinking through your presentation, which is fairly detailed. I was just hoping, if you can talk a bit about your company, which will be called, I think, Allcargo Logistics Limited, which will have, I think, your express and the third-party supply chain franchises. Can you talk a bit about what the balance sheet of this entity will likely look like? What is the margin profile a bit on that? Thank you.
Just to comment on that, as you see, this would be a combination of Express and Contract Logistics business, which combined has a turnover of about INR 1,800 crores for the FY23. If you look at FY23, Express Logistics business under GESCPL reported about INR 71 crore EBITDA. Contract Logistics business reported about INR 121 crore EBITDA. So combined, we are looking at roughly about INR 1,800 crores revenue and about INR 190, INR 195 crores kind of reported EBITDA. That is the scale of the business, which has been shared in the presentation as well. In terms of what the business means, I would hand over to Phil to explain to you the concept of the business and how it is placed in terms of competitive solution in the industry. Excellent.
The second part of your question was more on the margin profiles. If you look at both the businesses, the margin profiles individually are very similar. You look at anywhere between 10%-15% EBITDA. What tends to happen is when you run them together, you can optimize costs, especially the SG&A costs, and therefore, you can strive to get a better margin profile for the joint entity. Also, the other thing to note is that when Allcargo acquired Gati, at that point of time, we had clearly mentioned that we will be an asset-light company.
Today, almost all the assets that we had brought down in our balance sheet as asset for sale have been sold off, except for a couple of them which by this quarter end we could. Why I am saying that is because the Allcargo Supply Chain side of the business is a totally asset-light business. The entity that will be then getting is an asset-light entity doing fulfillment logistics for you.
You also asked on the balance sheet. I will request my colleague, Deepal, to share numbers on that.
Sure. There are two steps to the entire scheme of arrangement. Step 1, which is appointed date is October 1, and the other one is which is a future appointed date based on the scheme becoming effective. On the first step, typically, the Allcargo demerger for MTO business, you already had the segmental view for the MTO business in the standalone, which would give you an idea as to what will move away as a P&L. On the balance sheet, what we have is the segregation on the asset liabilities will be specific to the business which will move away. The debt typically, also as per the scheme, any specific debt which is related to a particular business moves with that business, and the balanced common debt moves in the ratio of the net assets.
In this case, we have around INR 324 crores of debt as of September, which will move. Around working capital debt is around INR 77, INR 78 crores, which will move with the MTO business. INR 200 crores of debt for the interest to share acquisition stays back into Allcargo Logistics Limited, and INR 45 crores worth of common debt, which has been split, and INR 45 crores value will stay back into Allcargo. At the Gati level and the Contract Logistics level, Contract Logistics is again a very asset-light company. The balance sheet of Contract Logistics, known as ASCPL, will merge into Allcargo Gati Limited, and GESCPL balance sheet will also move into Allcargo Gati Limited.
On the debt side, the gross debt is ranging close to INR 150 crores, with approximately INR 100, INR 105 crores of liquidity available, making it a net debt of INR 45- INR 50 crores in that business as we stand on September 30. This is how the balance sheets will pan out. The individual segmental numbers are already available for you to review, and if there are any further questions, specific questions, we can definitely answer some of them.
Just to clarify one thing, you are saying that the debt of the company called Allcargo Logistics will be somewhere in the INR 250 crore ballpark range. Is that right? Okay, cool.
Please understand that is as of September and-
Yeah. Some minor change can happen. I fully get that.
No, if there is cash available in the future, we repay some of them.
Right.
When that goes up, finally, that number could change, is what we are trying to say. But go ahead.
Right. And just one sort of last thing. I know that you guys had acquired Gati in the past, and I also see that a lot of the management team comes from a supply chain background. And now that you have a mix, y ou have a mix really in Allcargo Logistics of express and more of the managed supply chain, kind of periodic as you go forward. How do you see that mix changing, and which of these are you more excited about as this entity is formed and you can really grow it?
Firstly, as you have seen that we have recruited a lot of professionals over the last two years in Allcargo Gati. Not necessary that their background is only from Contract Logistics. I myself was from UPS, which is an Express Logistics company.
Okay.
To answer your question, of course, the joint entity will have the best talent that is required to run the joint entity. On the front end, we see a lot of synergies when it comes to our sales and marketing team. On the back end, as far as operations is concerned, we will have specialization where required, and then of course, the general operations is run by a professional team. It is not about excitement being in either. It is about excitement being together. I would put it that way.
Okay, great. Thanks a lot, and I wish you all the very best in this new avatar. And I know that with your background and experiences, you can really scale this both in terms of your size and margin profile. And I wish you all the best for that. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have any follow-up questions, we request you to return to the question queue for any such follow-up questions. The next question is from the line of Rishith Shah from Nuvama Wealth. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good afternoon. So actually, two questions relating to this. I lost some part in the middle about the debt. So firstly, we said regarding GESCPL, we have a gross debt of INR 150 crores and a net debt of around INR 45 crores, which will stay in Allcargo Gati. A similar number can you give for Allcargo Supply Chain, which will move to Gati?
The Allcargo Supply Chain does not have any significant debt.
Okay.
INR 10, INR 12 crores at max, nothing beyond that.
Yeah, INR 8, INR 9 crores or so. It doesn't have any significant debt per se.
Okay, great. Regarding the international supply chain, a similar number. You said around INR 324 crores of debt we have as of September, right? What would be the net debt in there?
There isn't enough. That's not much of cash. Around maybe another INR 40, INR 50 crores. INR 324 is almost blank. Not much of cash available there at the moment.
Okay. Great. Second question I wanted to ask was about the fundraise. We have announced a INR 500 crore equity fundraise in Gati. Can you just highlight where will we use that particular funds and what is the outlook for the same?
We have taken the board approval for the same, and we would now be going to shareholders for the approval as we streamline our plan. This is the time of the year when we are working on the three-year business plan, looking at the investments required in technology, continued upgrade of infrastructure, and other such requirements. And once we have the shareholders' approval and we have a definitive plan, we would come back and announce about the same at this point in time. There are no further details that can be shared.
Okay, sure. And lastly, about the International Supply Chain. We have been seeing some volatility in terms of margins as well as realization. Can you share some outlook regarding the same, where the business is headed and in terms of profitability as well?
We continue to maintain the same outlook that the global macroeconomic environment remains subdued. The world trade is likely to remain sluggish for the next quarter or two because for the demand to come back in, consumption has to improve, which means the interest rates have to come down. Now we have clearly seen that globally, inventory levels are rationalized, interest rates are not going up any further, and over the next six months, hopefully the interest rate should come down. Inflation in the Western world should be under much more control. And considering all these factors, there is an indication that the second half of 2024 should have a robust global trade, and that should bring back the demand in the business as well.
But in the immediate future, our focus is more on cost optimization, and we have taken several initiatives which should show partial impact in the January to March quarter and full impact from April 1, as some of these costs are also linked with set-off severance costs, et cetera. So in the January to March quarter, you should see some improvement on account of cost. April to June, you should see some further improvement on account of cost optimization. In the second half of the 2024 calendar year, you should see revival in business. That is our estimate at this point in time.
Okay. Sure, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhishek from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Sir, finally, ASCPL, I mean the Contract Logistics business and GESCPL will merge with Allcargo Gati Limited, and there will be another 500 crore fundraise through equity. How much new share would be issued in Allcargo Gati Limited? I mean to say that what would be the equity dilution? Now that Gati has a total number of shares, is at 13 crore shares, then post all this exercise, what would be the actual number of share of Allcargo Gati Limited?
Let me reiterate what I explained at the beginning of the call as well. These are all intermediary steps of a composite scheme. The eventual outcome is the International Supply Chain business get de-merged, and the remaining businesses and entities fold into Allcargo Logistics, which today has about 98.3 crore shares. After taking into account 3-to-1 bonus, which is being effective, is already approved by the shareholder. On top of this 98.3 crore shares, approximately additional 40.4 crore shares will get issued to shareholders of Gati other than Allcargo. Today, out of the 13 crore, approximately 6.5- 6.53 crore shares are held by Allcargo at about 6.47, 6.48 crore shares are held by other shareholders. Allcargo shareholding will get canceled.
No fresh shares to be issued, but for the other shareholders, they would get 10:63, which is the swap ratio recommended by the independent valuers and announced in our filings. On that ratio, that 6.5 approximately turns to 40.3. The eventual shareholding would be a total shares of about 139.2 crore, out of which 40.4 crore shares will be issued to shareholders of Gati other than Allcargo.
What would be the total number of share of Gati Limited? That would be 14 crore shares. 40 crore shares. Sorry, 40 crore.
[inaudible] would collapse into Allcargo Logistics. There is only one single entity at the end of the composite scheme, which will house all the businesses. We are completely eliminating all the subsidiary and step-down holding structures.
Okay. And sir, after demerger of International Supply Chain business, what would be the benefit in terms of the operating efficiencies? Because this business is quite volatile in terms of the margin and the top line. Earlier there was a diversification, but now it is a consolidation. What is the thought process behind this?
No. So right now that business would become independent. It has robust cash flows, completely asset-light digital play with minimal CapEx requirements, and therefore that business would have strong balance sheet and also continued strong cash flows, which can be distributed to the shareholders and redeployed for multiple strategic objectives. That business is currently under the worst macroeconomic environment. We have also seen the exceptional years which were driven by supply chain disruptions. We believe the normal lies somewhere in between, and that is what I was referring to should come back from the second half of 2024.
But becoming an independent business, there would be strategic independence to pursue the goals of that specific business with the cash flow generated, and that business has been generating healthy cash flows, and that's a business which if you see historically has funded for all the growth initiatives across the group in the past.
And of course, with being asset-light it also has capability to give a very good return on capital.
Yeah.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Radha from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, you mentioned that the EBITDA for Contract Logistics business is INR 120 crores. So firstly, I am assuming that this is for the entire 100% contract logistics business, that is including whatever stake from JV partners we had acquired previously. Assuming INR 120 crores is for the whole business, what would be the PBT out of this INR 120 crores in FY23?
INR 120 crores is from the whole business, and we have been giving the EBITDA figures out. We have not shared the PBT still, so we will do it in the following calls.
Sir, actually, because this is a warehousing business, just wanted to understand whether the depreciation and interest cost would be so high to the level that it entirely dilutes the EBITDA, or would it be PBT in the range of INR 20 crores or so?
Yeah. I would request Deepal to give a perspective on the same.
Yeah. In the presentation, we already shared the ROU and the lease and things are. It will be close to INR 30 crores of PBT, 20, 25.
And how much are we expecting this to be, sir, in next two, three years?
Sorry, we couldn't understand.
On the growth potential, we have not given any specific guidance. However, we continue to maintain that these are strategic flagship businesses, and each of these businesses will continue to gain market share, which means we'll grow faster than the market.
Okay, sir. Secondly, the amalgamation ratio that we came out with for this Allcargo Gati Limited. It was 63:10, and it was mentioned that this is based on the valuation done by independent valuers. Could you give us insights on valuation that each businesses that they have arrived separately for the Contract Logistics, Express, and International Supply Chain business?
Yeah. All these details will be part of the scheme as we file it with the exchanges, and they would make them in public domain. All the details would be shared through the exchanges. We will be submitting the details to the exchanges.
Sir, currently, actually, could we get any insights on what kind of valuations that they have arrived?
At this point in time, we will be bound to share the scheme documents with the stock exchanges, and the swap ratio provides a good indication of the related valuation, which is what matters because it is a scheme of arrangement. So related valuation is what is important. From other related perspectives, we are bound to follow the process, and we will submit it to the exchanges, and then they would release in public domain.
Okay, sir. Sir, lastly, just one last question. After this scheme of arrangement, we will have two listed companies, Allcargo ECU and Allcargo Logistics. What I understand is the capital employed for the Allcargo ECU should be in the range of INR 3,000 crores and Allcargo Logistics could be in the range of INR 1,100 crores. Given that we had a discussion on the debt previously, out of this INR 3,000 crores, if my understanding is correct, the total debt would be around just INR 120 crores and out of this INR 1,100 crores, the debt would be INR 250 crores. Is this correct, sir?
No, so ECU or AL will not have, including the Overseas business at a console level, yet it will be only close to INR 2,500 crores- INR 3,000 crores of capital employed. But the debt overseas is around close to $30 million, and in India, the debt will be close to INR 78 odd crores is what we have spoken about. So that will be the breakup of the equity and debt.
The total debt put together would be approximately in the range of about INR 300-INR 350 crores ballpark.
Correct.
Sir, so total debt for both the businesses?
For Allcargo ECU Limited is what you asked for. We are specifying only for Allcargo ECU Limited. For Gati, we mentioned that around INR 245 crores worth of debt will stay back in Allcargo and another INR 45 crores, and approximately INR 9 odd crores of ACPL, so INR 55 will add up as of September to INR 250 plus INR 55, so around INR 300 odd crores of debt at the console level in the Gati-
Resulting.
the Allcargo resulting entity. These numbers are as of September 30th and are bound to change as we go along because the actual effective date is into the future.
On a quarterly basis, we will keep on updating the pro forma numbers based on the scheme of arrangement as we come out with the quarterly earnings presentations.
Okay. Thank you . [inaudible]
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhijit Mitra from Aionios Alpha Investment Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for taking my question. I hope I am audible. Just to understand a bit more on the Contract Logistics business, which is getting transferred. We can see that there is a 10 million square feet of warehousing that is currently under operations, and it is yielding almost INR 340 per square feet on FY23 revenue. What are the plans? Where do you want to take both the square footage as well as the yield out of these assets over the next 2-3 years? What would be the building blocks behind that plan?
Abhijit, the Contract Logistics business today has 5 million square feet, not 10 million.
Okay.
The 10 million square feet figure you may have taken as a combined entity of both Gati and Contract Logistics.
Got it.
Of course, our ambition, maybe you read my mind, my ambition is taking it to a 10 million square feet from 5 million in Contract Logistics. Contract Logistics basically has a margin profile which increases with the kind of business you do. If you do a vanilla cost-plus business, there is a margin profile, and if you do value-added services, the margin profile improves. We are clearly wanting to do a digitized value-added service on an end-to-end basis in both the Contract Logistics and Express put together, and therefore keep expanding our margins as we move forward.
Got it. Just to understand the unit metrics. If one has to expand by 5 million square feet, what kind of investments are we looking at? What is the timeframe, broad timeframe that you are thinking? What kind of yield per square feet are you expecting?
First of all, we are an asset-light company, right? When we say we are going to increase 5 million square feet, this is going to be rental commitments and no CapEx for building out these assets. We do invest in material handling equipment and again, depending on what kind of business we contract, the material handling equipment CapEx keeps changing. If it is an e-commerce business vis-à-vis an FMCG business, the CapEx will keep changing over there. If you are to look at this business, it will be a very high ROC business, because compared to the numbers, the capital investment required is very low.
Okay. Last year I could see a CapEx of INR 21 crores from the annual report that has been filed. That INR 21 crores, I mean, is purely MHE and equipment to refurbish the facility that you are renting out, right? That kind of CapEx will continue and that per annum CapEx can help you reach 10 million square feet in 3- 4 years' time?
Even the INR 21 crores CapEx that gets incurred has a lifespan. Some of these MHEs have an eight-year lifespan, some of them have a 10-year lifespan, right? As we keep moving our contracts, we don't necessarily for every new contract need new MHE. We build the warehouses for multi-users, and we put in the MHE, and then we get our customers. CapEx requirement generally in this kind of business tapers down as we move forward. That is the way you should be looking at this business.
Got it. But in terms of timeframe, you are probably not yet committed to reach that 10 million in three years, four years. That kind of commitment is not yet there. At least, I mean, might be on the drawing stage.
I have not made out any commitment of that sort up till now in the market. Once we get into the business full-fledged, we will make such commitments later.
Got it. Thanks, and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jainam Shah from Equirus Securities Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Am I audible?
Yes.
Yeah. Sir, this question relates to the Contract Logistics business that we are having in Allcargo Logistics and Allcargo Gati. How these businesses differ from each other, and how it could be benefited with the express logistics coming into play?
Whatever supply chain business you are seeing in Gati, if you have been following Gati, it is kind of a stagnant revenue of about INR 4.5 crore-INR 5 crore. This was being done by Gati before the acquisition made by Allcargo. Since there was a joint venture partner in KWE at that point of time, there was an agreement with the partner that this small supply chain business has to continue till KWE is a partner with us. We did not expand this business because we already had a supply chain business in Allcargo Supply Chain, erstwhile ACCI.
The expansion that happened in our supply chain business all happened in ACCI, and that is why you see this business in Gati which actually is a loss-making business in Gati, the supply chain part of the business, will then move out, and it will be fully done under one entity.
Okay. And sir, on the other part, this Allcargo Supply Chain Private Limited, that we are selling it to the Gati first. What is the outstanding shares at that entity, and what is outstanding OCRPS of that entity as on March 31 or September 30?
Just to clarify, it is being merged, not sold. Secondly, like I mentioned earlier, these are all interim steps to one composite scheme. Best would be to look at the eventual picture, wherein shareholders of Allcargo Logistics continue to hold their shares and the shareholders other than Allcargo in Allcargo Gati get the shares in Allcargo Logistics post the merger in the ratio of 10 is to 63.
Yes, but sir, this is for the purpose of finding the value of the business that is getting transferred, which is Contract Logistics, and also finding the business of Express Logistics as per the independent value to get back to the value of that, because it is currently not filed to the stock exchanges. If available.
Yeah. All the details will be filed with the exchanges with the SEBI format with all the valuations and rationale also mentioned by the valuers. All those details will be available to you in coming days.
Got it, sir. Got it. That is it from my side. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vikram Suryavanshi from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Congratulations for simplifying the structure. Two things, just to clarify, most of the questions were answered. One, if you look at Allcargo ECU, the new entity which was formed, the standalone supply chain business will be part of Allcargo ECU and the subsidiary structure will remain the same. Is that understanding right?
No, let me clarify. There is no standalone contract logistics or supply chain business in Allcargo. Allcargo standalone is purely the ECU Worldwide business in India. The supply chain contract logistics business is entirely carried out in Allcargo Supply Chain, and a small part, which contributes 0% to profit and small percentage to revenue, is carried out in Gati Express Supply Chain, all of which is getting combined into Allcargo Logistics, the entity for Gati's Express business and the contract logistics business. There is no standalone Contract Logistics business in Allcargo. Allcargo Global Limited will only have the international supply chain business, which is the LCL and FCL business with some bit of air business that we do.
Okay. I think I just will clarify my question again. We currently have International Supply Chain business, some part of that is under Allcargo currently as an Indian entity. That will remain a part of Allcargo ECU as a standalone business. Is that my question?
That is right. Whatever business of international supply chain business operating as ECU Worldwide, globally, the India part of that business will continue to form part of the standalone Allcargo ECU.
Yeah.
The subsidiary will continue. Basically, whatever you see as standalone Allcargo today will become the standalone Allcargo ECU.
Yeah. That is what my question. Okay, got it. Second, we have plan to raise money in Express business. Will that be before this operation? In that case, if we raise the money before this restructuring happen, our number of shares in Allcargo where future Express business will be part, that number of shares can increase.
While we have taken the board approval, and now we would seek shareholders' approval, the exact details would again tie into the business plan and the requirement of funds. From a process standpoint, the fund raise can be initiated during the course of the corporate restructuring as well, and it would not make any impact to the swap ratio. It could be just like how any other company raising funds could issue fresh shares for incoming funds. In a similar fashion, the shares would be issued to any incoming investor as and when the fund raise happens.
Got it. We'll just not necessarily wait for this instruction to complete to raise the money?
We don't have to. We have the flexibility to plan as per the strategic business requirements.
Okay, got it. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deep Master from Vana Financial Consultants. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my question. I had a similar question on the value, but while you said that you will file the valuation reports with the exchanges, is it fair to assume that there is a slight bit of benefit given to Gati shareholders in this merger? Because that is what is coming out when we try and do the math. Just wanted to check the understanding, actually.
The swap ratios are based on valuations carried out by independent valuers. We have no say or comment upon that. The swap ratios are determined by valuers adopting various methodologies that they adopt for us or for any other company as well. For an instance, for a listed company, they would look at the SEBI guidelines on 90 days volume with average price or 10 days volume weighted average price, whichever is higher. If it is a business which is directly linked to that, there could be a pass-through analysis. For a privately held company, they would look at DCF comparable valuable multiples, et cetera. All those mechanisms have been adopted by them, and they have recommended a swap ratio. Our working as management is to define the structure and then implement the effective swap ratio based on those valuations.
Whether it is benefit to one party or the other, I don't think that is the case. Fair valuations have been done, taking into account. In my view, it is both parties who benefit because-
No, of course.
Allcargo-
Just we are trying to check the understanding basis, the value that you may have taken under current value today as they are available on the exchanges. We would appreciate if the valuation reports will be made available at the soonest so we can also-
It will be made available as part of the filings. Yes, they will be made public.
Sure. Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dhwanil Desai from Turtle Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon, everyone. I have only one question, but maybe it is a couple of parts to it. This enabling resolution, I think they have taken for raising money in Gati with respect to logistics business. My understanding is that both Gati and ASCPL are pretty asset-light in nature, and they generate very decent cash flows. So INR 500 crore is a very substantial number. Are you guys looking at any inorganic opportunities which are on the horizon? Because in your presentation also, you talked about the larger scale enabling you to do more inorganic acquisitions. Is this something which is part of the business plan that you are thinking may or may not fructify, but is it on the horizon?
At this point in time, we are focused on improvement of the infrastructure digital capabilities. That is the primary focus at this point in time. This is an enabling resolution with the upper cap. As a group, we also intend to keep leverage to the optimal level. As you would see, Gati has been growing well. But in terms of cash flow generation, as the business grows, perhaps the working capital takes in more capital than the cash generated, which is also likely to follow. We will apply the financial prudence into our decision, and the primary focus is on improvement of infrastructure and digitization, as Phil spoke about. Any specific details would be linked to the business plan, and we would announce at the time of taking specific action. There is no further details that we can share beyond this.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rushabh Shah from RBSA Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Earlier we used to give a vision for FY 2026 that we are targeting INR 3,000 crores for the Allcargo Gati entity. Now taking into account the new business that has come into the fore, that is Allcargo Supply Chain, would this number be significantly higher? How should one look at the trajectory three folds down the line?
We would stick to our INR 3,000 crores for Gati. Let the scheme come about and then we can talk about what will the number be once the merged entity comes up. Right now it is INR 3,000 crores.
And sir, what happens with fuel station business that we are looking to divest in this year itself?
Fuel station business, like I've always been saying, we already have a buyer. The problem is that it requires permission from the public sector units, which means in turn, Government of India. While both the buyer and us together have made certain approaches to the public sector companies, and they are also working on it, I cannot with certainty say when, but I can also say that very soon we'll try and get them off our balance sheet.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ankita Shah from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Sir, I wanted to understand post this amalgamation one and two of the Allcargo Logistics business, already excluding the ECU business. From whatever is left, after this total both the amalgamations, what would be the number of shares in the new entity?
As I mentioned earlier, I would just reiterate the final number, 139.2 crore shares in the Allcargo Logistics post demerger of the International Supply Chain business, which comprises 98.3 crore shares, which will be current shares post three-to-one bonus, and the additional 40.3 or 40.4 approximately crore shares being issued to shareholders of Gati other than Allcargo, so non-Allcargo shareholders. That's the total base, 139.4-
But sir, ASCPL and GESCPL also will be issuing shares of Gati, right?
No, no. All of this will merge and the eventual outcome will be only shareholders of Allcargo will continue to remain shareholders in Allcargo Logistics, and shareholders of Gati, except Allcargo Logistics, would get shares in Allcargo Logistics as a ratio of 10:63. If you look at 6.5 crore, approximately the number of shares held by shareholders other than Allcargo, you multiply that by 6.3, that comes to about 40.4 crore shares.
Got it. Some confusion. I'll probably connect with you separately.
We would also be happy to share the workings and numbers for everyone. We'll do that.
Done. Okay.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mehul Panjwani from 40 Cents . Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. I have a question related to the management of the two companies which will form the post this-
Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Panjwani, your voice is a bit muffled. Is it possible if you are using the speaker mode, can you-
Sorry about that. Is it better?
Yes, sir.
Okay. Thank you for the opportunity. I have a question about the management changes in the two companies because after this restructuring is done, we will have only two companies, Allcargo, and in this particular, apart from the TransIndia and the Allcargo Terminals, there will be two companies, Allcargo ECU and Allcargo Logistics. Is there any definite management being considered or it is still in progress?
That is very clear. Allcargo Terminals and TransIndia Real Estate are already separately listed independent companies with independent boards and management teams. Among these two businesses also, we are already structured on the business rationale. The international supply chain business has its own separate management team, which drives the business globally. The domestic supply chain, which is both Express and Contract Logistics business, have a management team wherein both businesses fall under the purview of Phil. On the business team side, the management structure is already aligned. Now with both businesses coming under a single entity, there would be further continued rationalization of structure, as Phil was explaining earlier, between the Express and the Contract Logistics business. But the split is already there in terms of the top leadership.
Right, sir. Please pardon my ignorance, but has the management for Allcargo ECU also been communicated, or that is too early, right?
Allcargo ECU would be the same management which drives the international supply chain business today. As you would know, we have our Managing Director, Mr. Adarsh Hegde. We have our global leadership team. If you refer to our investor presentation and look at the ECU Worldwide management team, which has always been spelled out separately, that is the team that will be driving Allcargo ECU Limited. The team that you would see on the Gati presentation and also in the Allcargo presentation as the Gati leadership team, that is the team that will be driving the Express and the Contract Logistics businesses. Both the teams are well established for the last few years now. Both Express and Contract Logistics came under the leadership of Phil earlier this year.
All right. Okay. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Udhayaprakash from Value Research. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Congratulations on simplifying the structure because-
Cannot hear you properly. Can you be a bit louder, please?
Yes. Can you hear me now?
A little better.
Yeah. Sir, can you hear me now?
Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. I was just saying congratulations on the demerger because this will completely simplify what you started, the structure, what you started three years ago. My first question is, right now, as of September 2023, the company has a trade receivable of around INR 3,000 crores in the balance sheet. Can you give a breakup of how much will be for the Logistics business and how much is for the International Supply Chain business? My second question is more focused on the ISC business only. Recently, there were some attacks in Red Sea and all, and global trade is effectively muted. Will this further elongate the time period which will take for the world trade to return to normalcy?
Yeah, I will respond on the second part and then request my colleague Deepal to give some perspective on the trade receivables. The Red Sea attacks have led to more shipping lines suspending their services through the Red Sea, and that has meant that the ships now need to go via the Cape of Good Hope, leading to longer transit times and additional costs. While there are diplomatic efforts on to take care of the situation, it may be not resolved for the next several weeks, and we also believe there could be some additional war risk surcharges which may rise. This means there will be a bit of an inconvenience to the traders with longer transit time and increased cost. At the same time, if ships are traveling longer, they would also end up requiring more time and therefore their effective capacity available gets reduced.
Having said that, the market situation is not very tight on capacity. Given that there is a softness in the global trade, this can potentially be managed through the excess capacity available in the shipping line. We believe that this could lead to some disruptions and inconvenience for a short period of time and some incremental costs, but not very significant at this point in time. That is our estimate. We will see as the situation unfolds over the next 2-3 weeks.
Could this also lead to a potential increase in ocean freight rates, which would somewhat compensate for, let us say, fall in volumes? Is it not possible, that animal won't work out in this scenario?
There could be some increase in the freight rates. There will also be some increase in the underlying cost for shipping line. From our perspective on the FCL business, we have seen that generally with the increased freight rates, margins also tend to move up. On the LCL business is still largely driven by utilization, and that is driven by the macroeconomic environment, the demand, and therefore the ability to fill in containers better. There could be some marginal positive impact in FCL, but too early to say, as we need to see how the situation unfolds and what it means in terms of the impact on transit times and freight rates, and to what extent and for what period of time. Deepal, you want to-
The trade receivables.
On the trade receivables, whatever is shown in the balance sheet of Allcargo Logistics on a standalone basis completely belongs to the MTO business.
Okay. The INR 3,000 crore is just for the MTO business. We have seen a significant rise in trade receivables, is this something we need to be worried about or?
INR 5 crores, it's not INR 3,000 crores standalone.
Sorry. Yes, sir. But in the last few years, we've been consistently having high trade receivables. Is this something we need to be worried about?
No, we've not had high receivables. High receivables were primarily because of higher freight rates. But if you look at our DSO, they are very range bound. As far as collections or receivables concerned, that's not a problem at all for the MTO business.
It has remained range bound for the last seven years-
Yeah.
and there has been no concern on that. As the freight rates move up and down, that leads to the overall trade receivables going up and down.
Absolutely.
Okay, sir. Thank you. That is it from me, sir.
Thank you. We will take that as our last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ravi Jakhar for closing comments.
Thank you. Thank you everyone for joining in, and hope we were able to answer all your questions and clarify on the objectives and details of the scheme of restructuring. Please feel free to reach out to our investor relations team and ask further questions that you may have. We would also endeavor to provide additional information as we see necessary for the benefit of all shareholders and also for the benefit of investors and analysts alike. Thank you very much for joining in. Have a good day, and festive greetings to everyone.
Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Allcargo Logistics and Allcargo Gati Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.