Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the quarter one of f inancial year 2027 earnings call hosted by Anand Rathi Wealth Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Feroze Azeez, Joint CEO of Anand Rathi Wealth Limited. Thank you. Over to you, Mr. Azeez.
Thank you so much, Michelle Ma'am. Good afternoon, and thank you everyone for joining the earnings conference call for the quarter ended 30th June 2026. We have today with us the Group CFO, Mr. Jugal Mantri, the CFO of ARWL, Mr. Rajesh Bhutara, and our Head, Investor Relations, Mr. Vishal Sanghavi. As we've always shared with you, we remain committed to delivering consistent profit growth. I am pleased to report that we have delivered another quarter of consistent performance, which is our 19th quarterly result.
I would like to sincerely thank our clients, employees, and all our stakeholders for their continued trust and support. Despite the volatility which you all are aware of, in the quarter one FY 2027, our uncomplicated business model and unwavering focus on client outcomes helped us deliver consistent market-agnostic growth. This once again demonstrates the strength and resilience and the scalability of our business.
The mean YoY growth of our last 17 quarters, skipping the first two because there was a COVID base, profit has grown at a median of 31.7% YoY, a mean was 31.7%, and median was 33.1%. Seldom do listed companies measure the consistency of the earnings and the standard deviation of these 17 numbers, which are YoY PAT growths declared for the last 17 quarters. The standard deviation was 4.8%, reflecting the consistency of our performance mathematically rather than in English. Total AUM grew by 21% YoY to INR 106,300 crore as on June 30th, 2026, supported by the net flows of INR 2,743 crore for the quarter despite high volatility.
Equity in capital markets reflects our clients' continued confidence in our business model. This quarter, we had INR 1,900 crore of net sales in equity mutual funds alone. In our flagship business, in the last 12 months, we have added 1,600+ new client families on a net basis, bringing our total number to close to 14,000. To be precise, 13,941. Client attrition rate in terms of AUM lost for Q1 FY 2027 was 0.09%. We love to see this number second decimal.
Yeah, we would love to see it zero, in fact. Underscoring the strength of our client-centric, uncomplicated approach. Zero regret RM attrition for the quarter is another highlight. I'll hand over the conference to our Group CFO, Mr. Jugal Mantri, to give you all the updates of the subsidiary companies and the consolidated financial performance of the company. Jugal, sir, can I hand this over to you?
Thanks, Feroze. Thanks, Michelle. Good afternoon, everyone. Let me first talk about our other businesses in subsidiaries. Digital wealth business, which is B2B2C business, registered AUM growth of 23% year-on-year to INR 2,526 crore, and number of clients increased by 16% to INR 7,320. OFA business, which is a SaaS platform, has 6,890 subscribers with platform assets of INR 1.66 lakh crore for the quarter ended June 30th, 2026. We have also started operations in U.K., and very soon you all will see this business flowing from there and start contributing.
Now let me give you all a brief about Q1 FY 2027 consolidated financial performance. Excluding fair value gains on investments, ESOP expenses, and related tax effects, our consolidated total revenue for the Q1 FY 2027 stood at INR 336 crore compared to INR 284 crore for Q1 FY 2026, registering an 18% YoY growth. Profit after tax stood at INR 116 crore, showing a 24% YoY growth compared to INR 94 crore in Q1 FY 2026. Profit after tax margin is higher at 34.4% for Q1 FY 2027 compared to 33% in Q1 FY 2026.
During the first quarter of FY 2027, we have achieved 24% of full-year revenue guidance of INR 1,415 crore and 25% of its full-year PAT guidance of INR 460 crore. Given the strong business we have built and the opportunities ahead, we remain confident of achieving our guidance. Reported numbers, including fair value gains on investments, ESOP expenses, and the related combined tax effects, total revenue for Q1 FY 2027 stood at INR 430 crore and PAT at INR 163 crore. That's all on the financial numbers. Now we can start question and answer session. Over to you, Ms. Michelle.
Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question- and- answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may please press star and one on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. You may please press star and one to ask questions. The first question is from the line of Shubhi Gupta from Trinetra Asset Managers. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. My first question is that we are expecting platinum families to grow from 211 to about 450-500 over two years. I wanted to ask, what is the quarter one update on that number, and how much is the contribution from them? My second question is that clients from less than INR 5 crore bracket upgrades themselves to INR 50 crore bracket. I wanted to understand at what rate does that happen? Every year, how much of the first bucket upgrades to the second bucket?
Didn't get your second question, Shubhi. If you can repeat that for me.
Yeah, sir. Basically, clients from less than INR 5 crore bracket upgrades themselves to INR 50 crore bracket which is our target market. Wanted to understand that at what rate does that happen? Every year how much of that first bucket gets transferred or upgrades themselves to the second bucket?
Got it. First question is, what's the update on the platinum clients? I think platinum clients would be about 230 now, approximately from 211. Since this is a segment which we have launched just about two and a half years back, when we actually launched this segment, we had about 40, 45 clients only. If you ask me whether we will get to that 400, 500 number sooner than later. Of course, the second question automatically is the next question of the first question or the subset to the first question. How many people upgrade? Five to 50 is a large segment, we are actually now also trying to segment our clients into gold and platinum. These will be the only two segments we wish currently to have.
I think, the upgrade rates would be something like a few a quarter, 10, 15, 20 a quarter. That would be my guess. We generally believe in not going to people. Quite a few wealth management outfits figure out who's got into money by a transaction, large real estate transactions or large private equity transactions. If people come into money, a few INR 100 crore, most wealth management outfits reach there and try and get a share out of that. We believe in growing our clients internally. I think there will be a hockey stick kind of a count increase. Like in the last two years it went up from 45, 50- 230. I wouldn't be surprised that you would see it in four digits in a few years.
Okay, sir. Just one more question. Sir, AUM per RM has been increasing. I think it was INR 230 crore per RM, and now it's been increasing. Is there a cap on that or how do we see that progress?
There's no cap in terms of the amount of money. Of course, there are relationship managers who've spent about 15, 18 years with our company. Most of them could be at [inaudible] , INR 800 crore, INR 1,000 crore, [inaudible] also. If somebody has created a business for about a couple of decades. This business is about math and time, not about speed. That's what we've been saying. Rolling stone gathers no moss in this business. Anybody who changes companies in this business has, if you look at data, anybody who changes more than three companies the guy leaves the wealth management industry before he retires.
Coming back, is there a cap on the AUM? The answer is no. Should that number go up? The answer is yes. When we got listed, if I'm not wrong, that's when we had got INR 200 crore per relationship manager. Now we've had more relationship managers and we have more AUM per RM. Since this business the key crux is what's your client attrition, what's your RM attrition? If your client attrition is 0.09% it is but obvious that this number will keep going up.
Quite a few companies AUM per RM can come down then you would automatically, it's a cause and effect. You'll automatically work backwards to check what is the client attrition you will see in a few percentage, 4%, 5%, 7%, 10% also in so many wealth management outfits. Will this number grow? The answer is yes. Will it plateau somewhere? I guess no because this is a self-fulfilling prophecy because if a client, for example, I'm a relationship manager. In fact, most of our leaders, we have about 86 team leaders and 19 unit heads. All of them are relationship managers first. Rakesh also manages clients. I manage clients. I think a few INR 1000 crore could be an easy number per RM and we've achieved that in a few cases depending on how long a person has spent in the company.
Thank you so much, sir. This was very helpful. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take the next question from the line of Jignesh, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah. I had two questions. First is, in such a bad market like we had from April to June, how do we actually manage our asset allocation? During such a high volatile market. Second is, why I think you as a house are having a call that we will not invest in gold. Sir, wouldn't it be fair that many of the people have invested in multi-asset funds and maybe sold out in the last quarter and entered small-cap? I wanted to understand this. How is it actively managed?
Great. Jignesh sir, see, of course, asset allocation. If your overall risk is high in the portfolio, like we measure it in the form of beta. Of course, most of people on the call would know well, they are from financial services industry because we have a lot of analysts. Beta is a risk measure, basically trying to evaluate the risk relative to a certain index. If my beta is very high, then I need to do active management. Let's assume if a treasury is there. He's got some portion of his money with two beta. Then he needs to go in and come out of the market.
We operate highest beta portfolio is 0.6, 0.65. That means you're taking lower risk than Nifty, mathematically, not in perception. In mathematics, you're taking lower risk than Nifty, you don't need too much dynamism. That's point one. Point two, you're not buying the riskiest asset in equity. I buy mutual funds currently because that's the most tax-efficient platform, and mathematically, if someone were to, without being too biased, if he tries to create a diversified portfolio, mutual fund becomes the best platform for a diversified portfolio.
I already have a vehicle, which is the lowest risk. If I was recommending stocks, for example, those are high beta in the equity portion. Low beta overall portfolio and conservative equity allocation and structure products makes my overall portfolio a low beta portfolio, hence active management on asset allocation becomes lower of the need. Coming to gold, we have this principle, very important principle, and that's the foundation stone on which our cultural or our professional fabric is at least laid out is, we sell what we buy rather than sell what sells.
Gold already is 28% of India's household savings. Out of the INR 160,000 crore approximately, 28%, which is $4 trillion or INR 40,000,000 crore, is already there in gold in the form of 30,000 tons. If already we have so much gold, if wealth management also starts selling gold, an equity mutual fund is 1.8%, and I'm supposed to be selling equity mutual funds.
If I start selling gold, which is already 28% of Indian household savings, especially after the gold has gone up three times, that's the reason why we don't recommend gold, because India has enough of it, and it has doubled after 20 years. Almost 15 years later, gold has got this rally above INR 2,000 going to INR 5,600, and people were still recommending gold in January when the gold had touched INR 5,500. That's why we don't recommend gold, because India has enough of real estate and gold.
Right. Out of your total portfolio allocations in mutual funds, all are purely into equity as of now?
No, sir, not purely into equity. If I remember right, we have about-
Okay.
INR 55,000 crore in equity, INR 4,500 crore in debt, and some Structure Products and some raw material which gets aligned to the model portfolio over periods of time. It's a combination of all, but largely mutual funds and structured products.
Okay. Right. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohan M. from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on good set of numbers. Sir, I wanted to understand on this other income, the INR 110 crore that you have booked. What is sitting in there?
INR 110 crore of other income is basically mark-to-market gains of our holding. Jugal sir, you want to take that one?
Yes, Feroze. Out of INR 110 crore, INR 96 crore, that is mark-to-market gain in the holding of Anand Rathi Global Finance Limited. The rest is the normal other income, which is interest income on the surplus which we carry.
Sure, sir. Just on this NBFC revaluation that we have done, what is the thought process behind that? How did we revalue it?
No, we don't revalue. We get it revalued from the third party. Investment banker, he does the revaluation, and this has to be revalued in every six months. This is obligatory on us to get the company revalued every six months, and we should incorporate that revaluation, either the increase or decrease in valuation, whatever comes, we have to incorporate the same in our P&L account.
Sure, sir. Sir, what will be the primary and secondary issuances of MLDs this quarter?
The primary issuances at the gross level in Q1 was about 8% higher compared to last year to the group companies. It was INR 1,875 crore compared to INR 1,704 crore to the group companies, and INR 312 crore of the primary issuances of the third parties. Total it was INR 2,187 crore, compared to INR 1,704 crore in Q1 of FY 2025.
Sure.
On secondary, t he number was INR 968 crore in Q1 FY 2027 compared to INR 755 crore in Q1 FY 2026.
Sure, sir. Thank you.
Okay, thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vikas Aggarwal, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you so much. I have a question for Feroze. I remember Feroze have once told that three of his RM had gone to competitors. What is the retention of their asset? How do you retain their assets who switch to competitors?
Mr. Vikas, right? Mr. Vikas, thank you so much for your question. Yes. You remember right. I think in the last or the last to last earnings call or the December quarter ending, I had said that three of our colleagues went to a specific company. I have my colleague, Vishal- We basically believe that when a person goes to a newer platform or another company change, if the company is Anand Rathi is a very process-driven company, client retention becomes a very important objective, and that has been achieved in the form of, if I'm not wrong, generally 70%-80% of the assets at least get retained. This specific company was wanting to hire people at very obscene salaries, because they had raised some capital. That's why I might have mentioned that three people went there and that data. Do you have, Vikas?
Yeah, I'll give you the precise numbers. I think it'll be in the range of 80% retention. When you look at retention, we don't add mark-to-market. We take the precise net flow of those specific clients who were mapped to that person on the date of resignation.
Okay.
Vikas, do you have it? Just hang on.
I have one other question.
Yeah. In the meantime, Vikas can pull it up.
Yeah. How do you plan to de-risk your structured product business?
Basically, when you look at our recommendation to our client, it's mutual funds and structured products. There are 20 different product lines are possible. We believe opportunity is overrated, focus is underrated. This is what Rakesh Rawal taught us, who's our CEO. Don't have to give everything to the client. Structured product itself is a market risk reduction mechanism for us. In that structured product, we sell Anand Rathi Global Finance structured products and third-party products. The proportion of Anand Rathi is greater and third-party is lower, because we believe that lending money to somebody else, you have to be very careful of a credit risk not fructifying.
Anand Rathi Global Finance is a group company and that's why our comfort remains there. What you might see as a risk of concentration, for me, it is a de-risking in itself. We have already seen two structured product popular issuers in India almost went belly up. One of them actually went belly up. Of course, when they went belly up, there were a lot of mutual funds, conventional bonds, which were there in the mutual funds portfolios of that specific AAA-rated so-called company.
Coming back, structured product helps you de-risk the market and brings down the beta of one's portfolio. That's one. Second, when you're speaking about concentration risk. Concentration risk on ARGFL is because we believe that lending to certain corporate, you have to be very careful because credit risk can't fructify. What you see as risk is my de-risk.
Okay, thank you so much.
Does it answer, Vikas sir? Now Vikas- I have readied the numbers. One second. Let me pull his computer. The day when these three gentlemen resigned, incidentally all these three were men. INR 758 crore is what they had. Net flow was INR 73 crore. Correct? INR 2 crore in July. Now we have INR 685 crore of the INR 758 crore with us currently, INR 658.5 crore. This is as of June end. One person could take away a little more, the other could take away a little less. Basically 90% of it is retained approximately. Without the market movement, of course. Does it answer, Vikas sir? As precisely I could get.
This was a pretty good explanation for sure. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anita Singhania, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. I would like to ask two questions. My first question-
Ma'am, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Ma'am, there is a follow-up on the line. Can you mute all the other lines which are connected from the same room?
Yeah. Is this better now?
Thank you, ma'am. Yes, please go ahead.
Yeah. I have two questions. My first question is, as you already applied for mutual fund license, is there any plan to expand in other capital market businesses such as investment banking or others? My second question is, can you explain your plan and views on the liberalized remittance scheme?
Okay. Yes, we have just got a Board consent approval to apply for an AMC license. We believe that arming ourselves is very critical because we have some long-term aspirations for this business. Arming ourselves with all the ability is something which we see as our duty towards our shareholder. Yes, that's Board consent to go and apply for the AMC license, one. Second, will we get into investment banking? Of course, the Anand Rathi Group already has an investment banking wing. I guess you're asking me this question because quite a few wealth management outfits try to get their assets from investment banking transactions like I just alluded to in the previous answer.
Sometimes people go after, "He has INR 500 crore. Go to him. Give a cheap, beautiful, durable option, and the client will come." We believe that is capital management, not wealth management. By design, wealth management is intergenerational in our belief. We are trying to get that portion of the assets, like INR 106,300 crore has been filtered to see a large portion of that is intergenerational wealth. Investment banking for the world has a very large synergy with wealth management.
We believe that getting intergenerational wealth doesn't come from investment banking transactions. That's why, for example, I must tell you, Ms. Singhania, that one of my friend works with a real estate firm, and he says that the promoter has got a few hundred crore or a little over INR 1,000 crore for next five, six years he can invest. I'd say Anand Rathi Wealth Limited is not interested in five, six-year money.
That's why no investment banking. And of course, quite a few people have had a strategy to build it there, and there's nothing wrong with it or right with our strategy. Yeah, we want to not focus on capital management, but in business management. Wealth management business is more longer term and intergenerational wealth is what interests or appeals to us. Only AMC, no collateral other businesses like investment banking. LRS, yes. Vishal Sanghavi is prompting me that I skipped the LRS. Again, LRS. Let me again say what I just said.
Focus is underrated and opportunity is overrated. Everybody tells me there's so much opportunity of the LRS money. Clients also need it. Maybe clients need it. If 182 product people are trying to understand India, and we are still somewhere, we are scratching the surface. If I have to give global recommendation across so many markets, I will at least have to have 200 product people sitting somewhere in Singapore or Dubai. Making tie-ups is very easy.
A wealth management like ourselves can go to another private bank and tie up and refer our clients. We have been told by our bosses, Mr. Rathi and Rakesh sir, that only speak in places where you understand second decimal. Otherwise, miss the opportunity, you're better off doing that. You can't be everything to everyone for all portions of their money. LRS is something which is currently far-fetched. Of course, it's a huge opportunity, but we are okay to miss it.
Okay. Thank you so much, Feroze. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Lalit Mohan Deo from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.
Sir, just two questions. Firstly, on the mutual fund business. We have been hearing that a lot of larger agencies have said that due to the change in the fee or expense ratio, they have, like whatever the impact they have been passing on to the distributors. Are we experiencing any pressure on our fees in the mutual fund business? Sir, secondly, with respect to the RBI circular on the bank guarantees capital market entities. Due to this, there is an expectation that the volumes on the exchanges might go down. Does it have any kind of an impact on the derivative business, which is done by mutual funds?
Got it. Your voice was muffled. I tried attempting to hear you. Correct me if I've not understood your question correctly. The first one is, AMCs are believed to transmit all the TER pressures to distributors. Is that your first question, sir?
Yes, sir.
Yes. I think some degree of to and fro happens. Since we are now a seriously large distributor, it becomes difficult for them to also transmit all of it. Whatever is rightfully ours, 1 basis points, 2 basis points, I think I would have told you last time also, those get passed on. Now that you've brought me to the subject, I would like to highlight in FY 2019-2020, was it FY 2019-2020? About six, seven years back, out of the total net sale in India, Anand Rathi Wealth Limited was 0.18%. Now, for this quarter, is it, Vishal?
No, for the FY 2026.
March-
FY 2026, yes.
For FY 2026, you'll be happy to note, if you're already a shareholder, that the 0.18% market share on net flow has gone up to 2.47%, as highlighted in the presentation. Since we are a large distributor, we also have some bargaining power, is the point I'm making. We might be the only wealth management, one of the few wealth management outfits which participate are long positions of our clients only using a mutual fund.
We don't recommend stocks, we don't recommend PMS, we don't recommend long-only AIF currently. If my clients need it, someday I might. My other wealth management distributions will generally be having mutual fund as one of the products. It gives me that little extra, but 1 basis points, 2 basis points, 3 basis points of transmission might happen here or there, like I told last time also. Trump decides my yield better, more, because mark to market comes because of that. 2 basis points, 3 basis points is very little on a base of 1.09%, if I remember right, post GST, which is what I earn. Does it answer, sir? The first question.
Yes, sir.
With my bad memory, I've forgotten the second one. If you could just prompt me again.
Yes, sir. It's on the circular of the bank and RBI circular.
The RBI circular I see that as a great circular because in India, because of GST and other things, quite a few times there is market inefficiency coming in. A learned high frequency trader or a derivative trader can, in fact, in India you can see on naked eye you can see arbitrage. Arbitrage is supposed to be identified by second decimal computer.
Sometimes when I see the terminal, I can see some arbitrage. I am very glad that some degree of volume of all these high frequency traders will definitely get curtailed and that makes transfer of wealth becomes a little more difficult. For example, let me give you this example. Sorry, on earnings call I'm giving you this example. Nifty can be rolled over in a spread window. The underlying constituents, there is no spread window for rolling it over.
This is like a huge arbitrage. I'm sure in terms of what technicality I'm speaking about. If somebody wants to roll over their short or long position on Nifty there is a spread window. Stocks which are the underlying 50 stocks of Nifty don't have a spread window. Higher the restriction on high frequency traders or learned people who actually operate their computers, supercomputers on black box pricing model, it had become really easy.
RBI circular brings down this frothy volumes which were the largest cause of wealth transfer between Indian retail and somebody whose second decimal understands order, second order Greeks of derivatives. I'm very happy about that. Second, what will be the impact on us? Negligible or nil? No, in fact positive impact because if you see the last Tuesday, so many Tuesdays you see these one minute candles with 100 point movement. That is largely because of high frequency traders. Market volatility will become a little more smoother on Tuesdays and Thursdays is my assumption. It's better and I'm very happy for the country and its regulation.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akhil from SKVM Company. Please go ahead.
Yes, good afternoon.
Yes. Good afternoon.
Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
First of all, congratulations. My name is [C.S. Sakhil], not Akhil. What typing error I don't know. I am your customer also client since last 10 years and I'm a practicing chartered accountant, an independent director in three of the companies. First of all, congratulations to you all, sir, on such wonderful results. Would like to know only one small thing. At this pace when you are reaching to a mutual fund industry [Non-English content]
[Sakhil] sir[inaudible]
[Non-English content]
[Sakhil] thank you for your question and thank you to be our client for 10 years. I am extremely grateful because entrusting hard earned money is one of the best things you could do for us.
Also a shareholder in your company. Client plus shareholder both.
Thank you, sir. Of course, shareholder [Non-English content] Now coming to your question, sir. Our long term target we had said in mutual fund industry, we were looking at about a 4% market share on the overall category two. AMFI assets to declare [Non-English content] growth and equity oriented scheme is called category two. [Non-English content] Our market share [Non-English content]
[Non-English content]
[Non-English content] Vishal?
First stage [Non-English content] second stage [Non-English content]
[Non-English content] first stage [Non-English content] Second stage [Non-English content] AMC [Non-English content] license [Non-English content] broad [Non-English content] whatever wolves were knocking on our doors, we did our best as a professional duty. We want to make sure that we look at all 0.5% risk, 1% risk and mitigate those as professionals.
Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you for answering those questions. The participant has left the queue. We'll move on to the next question from the line of Priyank S from Trinetra Asset Managers. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. While our legacy business has been growing steadfastly and in a calibrated manner, I just wanted to understand, is there any sort of AUM figure that you all are aspiring to be in the next five to six years, which will be divided between our structured and the mutual fund business? A. B, I also wanted to ask that this has now become the norm that all large-scale distributors are going towards setting up their own mutual fund business. We understand that ideally you get more control and the yields also see an uptake. Is that with our line of thinking? Third is the U.K. business. There is a huge NRI market there. Will yields be higher compared to India, and how do you see that? Thank you.
Yes, that's a lot of questions, Priyank sir. First is, yes, quite a few distributors might have done something like backward integration. Like you see the first slide in my presentation of the company. Those are our learnings, which we have learned the hard way. We have published it for anybody who gets lured with the wealth management business. Like I had said, wealth management is optically very easy business from outside on Excel sheets, and it is as difficult as it could get internally.
That's my judgment, having spent a couple of decades in this industry. In that you would see point number three, wealth management is a business of backward integration, not forward integration or simultaneous integration. That's why now that we have 18-20 years of full-fledged distribution, having a backward integration made sense for us. That's why we are doing it, not because somebody else is doing. There are some wealth management outfits which raise capital and start all businesses at once. All the best. We think that it has to be backward integrated. That's where it comes from. It's not from the herd mentality or a trend which might be there.
We really have some reasons, but we don't want that to be completely disclosed today. We have stronger reasons. We have a clear thought process. We have a lot of testing done in terms of doing that. Like you would have seen, we have never attached any value to our subsidiaries of digital wealth, whereas in 2021, people could have sold anything on the basis of technology. Similarly, we would want to underplay it currently, but it is not stemming from who else did it. It is stemming from our own individual thought process. It is consistent with what is written in point number three of the first slide. Then sir asked me what else question, Priyank. Sorry when I am answering one, I forget the next one.
Sir, just wanted to understand any sort of specific AUM figure that you are aspiring to be four years from now or five years from now that will give us some sort of visibility.
Yes. We have done projections for long periods of time. How you should look at if you want a model once I think about four or five year quarters back, somebody had asked me how we look at it internally and actually shared the model also on my website. No, you've not? Basically, how we look at it is whatever assets we currently manage INR 106,000, markets can't be subdued forever. Last two years, Nifty slipped into a two year negative return on June 9th of this year. Nifty can't be negative eternally. Okay. If you look at the past. Just before I come to my specific AUM, I am just giving you some color, which I had done a study. It was interesting for anybody who has some money in the Indian capital markets.
Anytime Nifty delivered two years negative return over the last 26 years, there are 50 observations out of 291 with monthly shifts, which gave a negative return for two years. The subsequent three years, all those 50 observations were positive and the worst return was 4.1%, best return was 56.8%, mean return was 21.6% and median return was 20.2%. Having said which, if history has any merit, the probability that Nifty will deliver more than its historical median return of 11% is very high for the subsequent three years. With our selection methodology, we have a lot of signs for whatever it's worth. We have beaten Nifty by 4% compounded after what we've earned.
Coming back, if you project our AUMs on the basis of 10%-12% M2M with some degree of conservatism, if you add INR 1,100 crore-INR 1,200 crore of net sales, which we intend to do per month for the next three years, you can grow the net sales also at the rate of 10%-12%, you will be able to arrive at the exact AUM which we target. Basically a 20%-25% AUM growth, a 10%-12% coming from mark-to-market and 10%-12% coming from 1% per month of net sale coming from-
If my AUM is INR 106,000 crore, internally, we discussed that we need to [Non-English content] INR 1,060 crore will be my implied net sales target for that month. That's how we look at it. 12% Bhagwan will give, will come because of our research team, I will take 1% single every month. I will be at 20%-25% AUM growth. In 26%, AUM becomes 10 times in 10 years. Just for ease of mathematics I'm just saying. Does it answer, sir?
Perfect. Just a short answer on the U.K. business. Is that exciting? Are the yields better than the Indian business? How do you look at it?
Generally, yeah, it is exciting, I've realized that when we look at mathematics of a certain business, we'd like to be excited after some numbers trickle because. We are happy that we now have a U.K. subsidiary. Will we try and scale it up very soon? Will we hire a lot of people? That's not our style. We like to build it brick by brick. If somebody is not a shareholder for 10 years, five years, seven years, he should not even worry about the subsidiary. As honest as I could be.
Sure, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rupali Patil from Elementus. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yeah, sorry. This is Rupali Patil here. My phone was an issue. I'm just calling from a landline. We are basically in the ARWL family now, and thank you for allowing us to be a part of your family. Once again, Feroze sir and ARWL team, congratulations on the stupendous success. In fact, as you are saying, that this is 31% year-over-year over the last 17 quarters, excepting that COVID part. At the same time maintaining this particular-- or increasing this AUM to INR 106,000 crore. With this actually, this is translating to something like 20%-25% annual growth or whatever, if you consider all these other-- allow for certain relaxations here and there.
With this increased AUM, how do you see that in the coming three to four years, if you are able to maintain this particular growth, AUM and the growth as well as this increase? Of course, most of it is coming out of your increase in the performance. Then it will come as increasing the AUM to new acquisitions, et c. With this, how do you see this growth being maintained and kept intact over the next three to four years?
Three to four years, I think the growth has to be a reasonable high probability retention. Because what happens is, like we said, we're very passionate about how we manage as against how much we manage. If you look at the mark-to-market gain, which is easy for one to calculate backward calculation. After we have listed, our clients have made INR 28,000 crore-INR 30,000 crore of profit itself. If you look at net sale, my AUM minus net sale will be my mark-to-market. My clients have made in a bad time. Of course, any client who has joined us in the last two years has not made the expected return because Nifty has delivered 3%, 2%, depending on which particular period did he come in 2024.
What I'm trying to get to is, this business inherently is a easy business if you don't have client attrition. If you do justice to one's money, the clients are going nowhere. That's one. You should be very passionate about clients' expectation should be lower than what you can deliver. Coming back, can you grow this business for three, four, five years at 20%, 25%? In our judgment, yes. That's the order I have from my boss, Mr. Rawal.
As a professional group, I'm speaking on behalf of all the 400 odd relationship managers and account managers, that we'll do our best. Coming to where does this come from? There are four mutually exclusive cylinders to fire. One is implied growth or embedded growth of returns of clients. Okay, when I look at my clients' portfolios, who are long-term-ish clients, 15%, 16% has happened. Even on the model portfolio level, even at delivery. That's the embedded growth in our business.
New clients of existing relationship managers. Today, the number of clients per RM is 33. That means we already have plant and machinery to acquire, to have 17 more clients into 400 odd, which is close to 6,500 new client families can be handled by the same colleague set of ours. That's called new client acquisition of existing capacity being utilized, capacity utilization. Third cylinder is new relationship managers. We have 490 people trained. It's easiest said.
Thinking about it eight years back, hiring a youngster, giving him patience, teaching him, and then promoting him is one of the toughest tasks one could accomplish in reality. That is already people. The next 100 set of RMs are being prepared or are 60% right. [Non-English content] Right? There will be more plant and machinery for acquiring more clients. The last one is existing clients. This INR 106,000 crore comes from 13,941 families.
We don't tell our clients to start big. If anyone has dealt with us, we don't tell him, "Sir, you have INR 10 crore. Why don't you start with INR 5 crore?" Most private bankers will tell you that, put a gun on your head and say, "Start with INR 4 crore. Start with INR 5 crore." Till some time back, we were also ready to start with INR 50 lakhs for a person who has INR 10 crore. Because if I don't do lip service, he will give me the money if I deserve it.
That was the secure place which Rakesh sir had suggested us to be. This INR 106,000 crore of 13,000 families, which we are in the process of measuring it accurately. You will at least have twice more that outside. That is called penetration. Capacity utilization, penetration, new RMs, and embedded growth. These four put together 20%-25% last quarter wasn't easy from a sentiment standpoint. We'll do our best. Odds, if you ask me to put on odds, I would do 90%-95% odds. Some odds have to be given to God's action.
Great. Thank you.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Good luck.
Thank you so much to be a part of our family. I don't know, as a client or a shareholder, but yeah, you are a family. Thank you, sir.
Thank you, sir. We'll take the next question from the line of Sunil Shah from SRE PMS. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Feroze, for this opportunity one more time. Feroze, just wanted to sound off some of the thoughts which are there. I hope I'm audible.
Yes, Sunil Shah.
Yeah. Hi.
Yes.
Feroze, just now that we have a successful track record of more than decades plus, how about taking this entire structured product thing to the global markets? We have some kind of a formula-based trading that we do with the structured products on our Nifty, et c. Why not try this for various global indices? Clearly, there has to be some other party thing. Like here we have our sister concern, who is giving us the other party side of the transaction as well.
What about targeting those global banks on this, the Citibank, the HSBC, the JP Morgan, and over time, maybe not in one quarter, two quarter, but directionally try to replicate our entire model in the global market so that then the world of growth opens up for us? Just a thought, then we can do it through the wealth platform that we have.
We can have the AIF thing if you want to take some higher fees. Now we are also getting the board approval for the mutual fund. Even in the mutual fund industry, as a differentiated product over a period of time where even if in the AMC business we are a late entrant, but that differentiation can really be a huge winner with time. Just wanted to sound this, Feroze, and wanted to hear your thoughts on what I'm talking, if at all, you can just discuss this out with me, please.
Sure, Sunil Shah. Your suggestions have always been thought-provoking. One person who's consistently given us guidance on this earnings call. If not all the 19, you might have guided us in 10 of those, and I'm very grateful. As soon as I hear your [Shubh naam I become a little more attentive. I'm very grateful for that. Coming to my reaction on, as a company, can we look at structure products on other indices or in other denominations on Nifty as the index? Definitely can be explored, especially when you have an NRI platform now in the form of a U.K. subsidiary.
We have a product which is in U.K. for tax efficiency for U.K. participants in India. We have made a fund of fund there, 11 schemes which are listed there, which is very tax efficient. Those clients need wealth structure products. Globally, structure products is very popular. I am told that in Singapore, 50% of one HNI portfolio is structure products. Because you are able to create a risk-return profile using a Black-Scholes pricing model precisely to the need of it. Coming back, should we explore that? Yes, sir, we will definitely explore that.
As Mr. Kalpesh Kuradia, who is the Head of Designing of Structure Products, who has been with me for 14 years, I'll ask him to come and see you and tell you that how he has taken some pricings on other indices, because structured products have debt and derivative. Higher the volatility, better it is for the structure product pricing. Global volatility today is 6%. S&P 500's volatility for last calendar year is 6% greater than Nifty in spite of having 10 times more the number of stocks.
People don't probably put the closing prices of Nifty and S&P on the same Excel sheet. If you look at the standard deviation thrown up by Nifty, it's 6% lesser than that of S&P. If I'm not wrong, it was 13% and 19%. What I'm trying to say is, with that kind of volatility on S&P 500, it's like a lottery for a person who is long gamma to hedge that. Interest rates earlier in the global market were very low. The products you design that would be more call buying than put selling, because the forward rates have also gone up there.
You're absolutely right. Volatility has gone up and interest rates are a good raw material for a good structure product pricing. Has Kalpesh done a full-fledged job? The answer is no. A couple of times he has shown me some pricings because we had a Dubai office. Yeah. I will make sure that Kalpesh does some designing and deliberates internally and also shows you if you have any interest on that, and then you might be able to give us some specific recourse also or guidance.
Yeah, sure, Feroze. That's the whole idea that we have done this for a long period of time. As a company, we have grown, we have built a team. The third element of sustainable growth is that innovation part. If we are able to do that, I think we still have a long way to go on the growth front. Just wanted to share and good to hear you. I'll take this with Kalpesh offline as well to understand the things that are going on. Thanks everybody in the Anand Rathi family for this call and having me on this session. Thank you.
Thank you, sir [Non-English content]
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arun Gopal, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Thank you very much. Congratulations on the entire team who could make up a return of 23.5% year-on-year basis on this quarter, where everybody was struggling to just even meet, just being neutral, level in growth. Congratulations to your team. That's where Anand Rathi stands apart. Making growth uncomplicated, that's absolutely what you all stand for. I'm an investor and a shareholder of Anand Rathi right from the IPO and invested for the last eight years. Really appreciate your hard work and your vision and the mission of your organization, which has really returned a lot of good wealth to all your stakeholders and shareholders. Thank you.
Thank you, Arun sir. If I recognize you from your voice, Arun is a common name. Sir Arun sir from Bangalore, right?
Chennai.
Chennai. Okay, great.
I was in Abu Dhabi and I moved on to Chennai for my mother.
Hey, got it. Sorry. Yes. Yes, Arun sir. Thank you to be our shareholder and client for so long. One thing I should note that you give us such a positive comment almost at the fag end of the call. I must say that clients have been very patient during bad times, and they have also looked at supporting us by giving us fresh monies. We believe that when you get money at lows, which is very difficult, the sales cycles are larger. It's very difficult emotionally for Feroze to cut a check when the market is down and out.
Rakesh sir has designed our minds to be long-term thinking is why I am able to take courage and I'm able to, as a company, transmit courage. Clients have given us more money, one. Second, thanks to the mutual fund selection process. Out of the 924 schemes, choosing those 14, mathematically using all the science possible over the last 12, 13 years of evolution, we have our mutual fund head, whom I have worked for 18 years, Shweta Rajani. I'm always the person who's the front of it.
There are some heroes and some heroines who are there at the back. I'm not missing the opportunity to recognize Shweta Rajani, who has been doing mutual funds in my Macquarie and Religare avatar I know her. From 2008- 2009, she's only looked at mutual funds. One of the biggest names in the mutual fund industry. She has chosen those schemes, and you'll be happy to know from April 1st- 30th June, our model portfolio has beaten Nifty by about 6%, if I'm not wrong. All the 14 schemes have beaten Nifty. It seldom happens, so I'm highlighting.
Always there will be two, three laggards, which will become better in the next quarter and so on and so forth. Thanks to clients and Shweta, our client outcomes have been very beautiful last quarter. Nifty has done about 7%. How much did Nifty give? End-to-end 7% Nifty gave. Mutual fund portfolio, 14 schemes has given 7% after our cost. More. Thanks to Shweta and clients. Thank you, Arun sir, for such a positive comment. Made my weekend, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference back to Mr. Feroze Azeez for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
I am very grateful for everyone's time. I know it's a Friday. You have consistently supported us as a client, as a shareholder, as a person at the capital market. As always, I would want to reassure that we stand by our indications, and we will do our professional best to serve our clients first and then our shareholders. I look forward to the continued support which each of you have given us in the past four and a half years and before.
Thank you, sir. Thank you, members of the management. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Anand Rathi Wealth Limited, that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line. Thank you.