Apollo Hospitals Enterprise Limited (NSE:APOLLOHOSP)
India flag India · Delayed Price · Currency is INR
7,740.00
-41.00 (-0.53%)
Apr 24, 2026, 3:29 PM IST
← View all transcripts

Q3 23/24

Feb 9, 2024

Moderator

Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Mayank Vaswani from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you.

Mayank Vaswani
Investor Relations Representative, CDR India

Thank you, Yashashree. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on this call hosted by Apollo Hospitals Limited to discuss the financial results for the third quarter of FY 2023-FY 2024, which were announced yesterday. We have with us on the call the senior management team represented by Mrs. Suneeta Reddy, Managing Director, Dr. Hari Prasad, President of the Hospitals Division, Mr. A. Krishnan, Group CFO, Mr. Sriram Iyer, CEO of AHLL, Mr. Obul Reddy, CFO of the Pharmacy Division, and Mr. Sanjiv Gupta, CFO of Apollo 24/7. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. Please note the disclaimer mentioning these risks and uncertainties on slide two of the investor presentation shared with all of you earlier.

Documents relating to our financial performance have been circulated, and these have also been posted on the corporate website. I would now like to turn the call over to Mrs. Suneeta Reddy for her opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

Thank you, Mayank. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for taking time out to join this earnings call. I believe that all of you have received our earnings document, which was shared earlier today. We are pleased to report a strong performance in the third quarter of the financial year 2023-2024. While there has undoubtedly been some impact from seasonality, holidays, and the cyclone in Chennai, we have reported double-digit growth in revenues and ARPOB this quarter on a year-on-year basis. Further, there has been continued progress in strategic imperatives such as further improvement in specialty mix, an enhanced payer mix, clinical augmentation, and digitization. Our healthcare services business witnessed a strong 12% year-on-year revenue growth in quarter three FY 2024, sustaining the pace of growth from the start of the fiscal year.

Volume growth has contributed about half of the revenue growth, while the rest has come through pricing, payer, and case mix improvements. Within this, the insurance revenues grew by 16% and contributed to 43% of total hospital IP revenue. Overall occupancy across the group was at a healthy 66%. This was achieved despite a reduction in dialysis and a planned calibration of institutional volumes. ARPOB, on an overall basis, increased 10% year-on-year to INR 56,368. Against this backdrop, let me take you through our financial results. Consolidated revenue grew by 14% to INR 4,851 crore . Healthcare services grew by 12% to INR 2,464 crore .

Revenues from Apollo HealthCo were at INR 2,049 crore in quarter three FY 2024, a growth of 17% year-on-year. Revenues from Apollo Health and Lifestyle registered a growth of 8% year-on-year at INR 338 crore in quarter three FY 2024. The diagnostic vertical within AHLL recorded revenue growth of 19% year-on-year and was at INR 112 crore.

Consolidated EBITDA was at INR 614 crore , an increase of 21% year-on-year. Within this, healthcare services EBITDA was at INR 586 crore , registering an 8% growth year-on-year. Healthcare services margins were at 23.8%. Margin impact was due to the reduced share of elective and surgical revenues in the revenue mix due to the holiday and festive season, as well as investments in clinical talent that have been made to strengthen our clinical profile, which is yet to be fully optimized.

The pharmacy distribution business in Apollo HealthCo recorded an EBITDA of INR 134 crore , a year-on-year growth of 8%. In a significant milestone, Apollo HealthCo has reported a positive EBITDA of INR 2 crore , registering a break-even performance for the quarter, one quarter ahead of guidance. AHLL recorded an EBITDA of INR 26 crore in quarter three FY 2024. Consolidated PAT was at INR 245 crore , a growth of 56% year-on-year. Healthcare services PAT was at INR 287 crore , up by 10%.

Within the healthcare services business, we have delivered an ROC of 26.5% with balanced ROC across all our geographies, metros, tier 1, and tier 2. Looking ahead, we believe a healthy mix of metro and non-metro beds will lead to further improvement in ROCE. We have also carefully studied the key markets and micro markets in the country, the demand-supply gap, and have set in motion a plan to add 2,000 beds over the next four years at a cost of INR 3,000 crore.

This plan is well underway, and we will operationalize our hospitals in Pune, Hyderabad, and Kolkata, as well as a brownfield expansion in Bangalore in FY 2025. Private label and generics business contribute to 16.55% of total pharmacy revenues, with an improvement of 55 basis points over last year. The platform GMV of 24/7 was at INR 658 crore, a growth of 21% on a sequential quarter basis.

We are committed to achieving break-even for Apollo 24/7 digital business within AHL in the next six to eight quarters. We have begun to see the effects of our integrated network with traction on net new footfalls coming into the system, as well as more people consuming our services across the formats. We had over 450,000 new registrations this quarter within hospitals and over 160,000 incremental footfalls in the AHLL vertical compared to the same quarter last year. Our digital platform 24/7 added two million new users this quarter. We believe that this comprehensive platform, with opportunity for improving our offering on consumer experience and lifetime value, offers us a competitive moat and headroom for accelerated growth. With each of our verticals delivering on their strategic promise, the network effect will deliver a holistic solution for the consumer and lasting relationships.

I would like to highlight that Apollo Hospitals has emerged as the first private hospital group in India to have successfully completed CAR-T cell program. The group will now provide access to Made in India CAR-T cell therapy, a state-of-the-art treatment option for cancer patients. This is in keeping with the spirit of clinical pioneership that we have always stood for. Our efforts to offer outstanding clinical programs and technologies and deliver the best clinical outcomes for those who trust us have always been at the core of our DNA. On that note, I would like to hand over to our moderator and open the line for questions and answers. I have with me Dr. Hari Prasad; our Group CFO, Krishnan; Sriram Iyer from AHLL; Obul Reddy and Sanjiv from Apollo HealthCo with me. Ready to take all of your questions. Thank you.

Moderator

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. In order to ensure that the management is able to answer queries from all participants, participants are requested to restrict to two questions at a time. You may join back the queue for follow-up questions. We'll take a first question from the line of Damayanti Kerai from HSBC. Please go ahead.

Damayanti Kerai
Senior Research Analyst, HSBC

Hi. Good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on margin trajectory for hospital segment. Ma'am, obviously, you mentioned you are investing in clinical talent for new facilities, etc., and we have seen margins falling off from, say, mid-20s% to around 23%-23.5% or so. Can you elaborate how should we look at this margin profile over the next few quarters because you have a couple of hospitals commencing operation in FY 2025? That's my question on hospital margin.

Krishnan Akhileswaran
Group CFO, Apollo Hospitals

Two points. We are directly as we said, we are clearly wanting this quarter has been a, as you know, a bit of a seasonal low quarter. Going forward, our focus clearly is to work on three levers. One is the one lever is the inpatient volume increase that we have been speaking of. Clearly, there are plans as part of our annual operating plan discussions, etc., to push each of the units on increasing the inpatient volumes across their facilities, and that's what we are working on. That should help us get closer to the 70% as close as possible or even 70% next year, which is our internal target. Second is clinical programs. If you look at the clinical programs that we are now focusing on, there is significant focus on oncology, neurosciences, high-end cardiac, etc.

Some of them, we believe, will further increase our utilization in some of our units, and that should also flow through the margins. So these are two significant levers on the revenue side. And on the cost side, as we already have spoken, one is this whole lever that we have of the doctors' fees because having invested a bit ahead of the curve, next year we should be able to see that getting rationalized a bit, and that should also help us see our margins go up. Internally, we would like to believe that there is an opportunity to increase the margins by at least 200 basis points over the next few quarters. And that's our internal way of looking at it.

Damayanti Kerai
Senior Research Analyst, HSBC

This 200 basis points margin improvement is for existing set of beds or whatever new beds will come cumulatively? You're talking about these sort of margins.

Krishnan Akhileswaran
Group CFO, Apollo Hospitals

New beds will come more by Q4 of the next fiscal. So I think first is to get this done by the next fiscal, and we will obviously have to then take but the base of the EBITDA that we have is so big now that some of the new beds should not alter. And all the new beds that are coming, if you look at it, Kolkata, Hyderabad, the way we are looking at Bangalore, Bangalore is very close to our existing hospital. So you should look at it more as adjacent to our existing hospital, which should not impact our EBITDA significantly. So I think next year, first focus is to increase it by 200 basis points. End of next fiscal, we hopefully get all these hospitals there, and we will show that separately.

I wouldn't like to guide for now on what would be their EBITDA losses, but it will be very, very minuscule.

Damayanti Kerai
Senior Research Analyst, HSBC

Okay. That's helpful. My second question is on 24/7 platform. So obviously, with improving profitability, you are now expecting break-even for this in the next six to eight quarters. So what's the plan for this? Are you still looking for fundraise, or do you want to put out a separate IPO, etc.? So any plan for 24/7 in, say, the next two to three years?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

So currently, 24/7 in terms of cash, it's self-sustaining. So it does not require a cash infusion. But we are looking at maybe at some time, if we require some cash, we are open to the idea. Let me just leave it at that because we are looking at growth coming from 24/7 and achieving profitability between the sixth and eighth quarter of operations.

Damayanti Kerai
Senior Research Analyst, HSBC

Okay. Okay, ma'am. Thank you. I'll get back into it.

Moderator

Thank you. We have a next question from the line of Kunal Dhamesha from Macquarie. Please go ahead.

Kunal Dhamesha
Pharma and Healthcare Research Analyst, Macquarie

Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. So the first question on the 24/7 GMV guidance that we had for FY 2024 of around INR 3,000 crore, we have roughly done INR 2,000 crore plus here to date. So what is our expectation for Q4 and the next year? And while we have achieved the break-even hello?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry.

Kunal Dhamesha
Pharma and Healthcare Research Analyst, Macquarie

Yeah. So while we have achieved the break-even at HealthCo level a quarter earlier than guided, that is good. But has that impacted the growth prospect of this business in your view?

Krishnan Akhileswaran
Group CFO, Apollo Hospitals

Yeah. So I'll take this question, ma'am. So I think INR 3,000 crore was the guidance that we had given it for FY 2024 as far as the digital GMV concerns. I think we should be able to hit something like INR 2,750 crore to about INR 2,800 crore. So that could be the final number versus the INR 3,000 crore mark. And this would mean about 75%-80% increase in GMV for FY 2024 versus FY 2023. We expect to continue to show robust growth, anything between 60%-70% for the next year also versus this year. That's on the first question.

The second question is that on six to eight quarters profitability, absolutely, we've got the clear plan in our hands with respect to increasing the GMV, increasing the margin line for each of the firing engines that we have it today, which is the pharmacy diagnostic consultation, and as well as doing the right thing for the fixed expenses that the company has it. Whatever right things are required to be done, they will be taken care. As we step into the annual operating plan for the next year, I think maybe in the next when we meet next, we'll have a little more understanding about this. But as we see, we have a detailed action plan to turn digital division also profitable in the next six to eight quarters.

Kunal Dhamesha
Pharma and Healthcare Research Analyst, Macquarie

But for, let's say, 60%-70% growth next year, we should have at least some sequential growth, right, versus this quarter sequential there is a sequential decline of around 10%, right? So I mean, is it a top ask, or is there something one-off in this quarter which has impacted?

Krishnan Akhileswaran
Group CFO, Apollo Hospitals

Yeah. This is something one-off. Two, three years been a transition quarter for the company. And because of the holidays and the festivals, we have seen a slightly different GMV. But if I look at the January numbers and Q4 numbers, we are back into the growth. And you would notice this once we publish your Q4 numbers. So nothing to worry. This is just one-off.

Kunal Dhamesha
Pharma and Healthcare Research Analyst, Macquarie

Sure. Thank you. The second question is on the healthcare services business. Again, just going back to our guidance of around 15% revenue growth for FY 2024 versus we have done 13% year-to-date. Now, I think seasonality would not matter on a year-to-date basis, right? So where are we seeing this growth for FY 2024 now for the healthcare services business, and what is the outlook for the next year?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

So I think we are targeted to grow at 15%. This quarter was because of the holidays. So leaving out holidays, I think we are confident of achieving at least 14% growth for the healthcare services.

Kunal Dhamesha
Pharma and Healthcare Research Analyst, Macquarie

For the full year. And ma'am, next year, any broad idea you would like to give?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

No, I think broad idea is that this trajectory has been good. So we are looking at 15% revenue growth.

Kunal Dhamesha
Pharma and Healthcare Research Analyst, Macquarie

Sure. Thank you. I have more questions. I'll get back to you.

Moderator

Thank you. We have a next question from the line of Bino P. from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.

Bino Pathiparampil
Head of Research at Elara Securities, Elara Capital

Hi. Good afternoon. A couple of questions. You commented a bit on the pharmacy business margin improvement that is excluding the 24/7 cost. I can see that the other expenses have overall come down quarter-over-quarter a bit. The margin is up compared to last few quarters. Anything changing there?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

So Obul?

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Well, I think we have last year, we have informed you that we are interested in the infrastructure required to create online services, and the costs were a little high. As business matures, we have planned those controls, and then you can see that improvement in the margin.

Bino Pathiparampil
Head of Research at Elara Securities, Elara Capital

Okay.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Even discounts, lesser discounts also contributed to the margin.

Bino Pathiparampil
Head of Research at Elara Securities, Elara Capital

Okay. Great. Second on this is Rourkela Hospital, which you have inaugurated. Under which cluster would you add the beds and the revenue?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

Rourk ela.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Rourkela is just added very recently now. It's part of the existing, it's a 50-bed that has just got commissioned. It's a 250-bed capacity hospital, but only 50 have got operationalized. So it will get operationalized over the next three quarters. So it's part of the overall healthcare services. It's a small number yet.

Bino Pathiparampil
Head of Research at Elara Securities, Elara Capital

My question was the healthcare you divide into Tamil Nadu, Northeast, West, etc., right?

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

It will be east. East.

Bino Pathiparampil
Head of Research at Elara Securities, Elara Capital

In the east. Okay.

In this quarter, I see there is an increase of about 42 operational beds in East and about 100 beds in North. Where is that coming from?

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

East is what we said, right? Rourkela is also adding to that. And in North, it is Indore. Indore, we have added a brownfield, we have done a 100-bedded expansion.

Bino Pathiparampil
Head of Research at Elara Securities, Elara Capital

In Indore, we have done a 100-bedded expansion. Okay. Understood. Okay. Great. Thank you very much.

Moderator

Thank you. We have a next question from the line of Neha Manpuria from Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Thanks for taking my question. My first question is on the expansion plan. If I look at the timeline for Pune, from what I remember from the previous presentation, this was mentioned in the first quarter, but we have seemed to have delayed it to the later part of the fiscal. Any specific reason, I mean, of the significant delay in commissioning of that project?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

Yes. So the current hospital project, we have 220 beds, but we have the capacity to add another 200 beds. So we are building the superstructure so that we can gradually add 100 beds every year post this year.

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Oh, okay. So it's just to complete the superstructure for the additional beds?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

Yes. Yes.

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Understood. Okay. Got it. And my second question on 24/7 and the comment that you mentioned of achieving break-even in six to eight quarters, would that be possible with the existing services that we have in 24/7, or would that target require us to add more services to the platform that we have talked about in the past, subscription, insurance, etc.? Would that be key to getting to that break-even in 24/7? Because from the existing business, given your GMV guidance, I'm not able to get to the math of break-even in 6-8 quarters.

Krishnan Akhileswaran
Group CFO, Apollo Hospitals

I think the first one, it has to be a mix of the new set of verticals also which provide you better margin. And we talked about the entire digital therapeutics as one of the offerings. And sometimes we also talked about the insurance distribution. In fact, the insurance distribution is something which we started properly from January this year. And apart from these two verticals, obviously, the entire monetization of the app and the website is still not being done as much as we would like to do it. So I think these three particular offerings, which is digital therapeutics, insurance, and app monetization, these are the three segments which would give you a better margin line. In fact, the entire earnings that you earn out of these three verticals would go back or flow back down to EBITDA.

I think coupled with the existing offerings of pharma, diagnose, and consult, these are the three things that we should be seeing as we move forward. Together, all the six ones should help us achieve this target.

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

And so for digital therapeutics and app monetization, in what sort of timeline should we start seeing this being, let's say, a driver? Would it take a couple of quarters for that to happen? For insurance, you mentioned you've started the module from this month.

Krishnan Akhileswaran
Group CFO, Apollo Hospitals

Yes. So app monetization is something which we can expect to start from Q1. As far as the digital therapeutics is concerned, I think that is also work is getting done on the product and the tech side of the solution. I think something like Q1, Q2, we should also be seeing certain subscription-led models for digital therapeutics too also being rolled out out of the future.

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Got it. Thank you so much.

Krishnan Akhileswaran
Group CFO, Apollo Hospitals

Thank you.

Moderator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shyam Srinivasan from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Shyam Srinivasan
Equity Research Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. Just first, one on AHLL. Apart from diagnostics, I think the other segments of it have been slow growth for the nine-month, even for quarter three. Anything that we need to keep in mind? Is there a would we see an outlook where it goes back to a double-digit growth for the other segments as well?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

Sriram?

Sriram Iyer
CEO of Apollo Health and Lifestyle Limited, Apollo Hospitals

Yes. On these specialty formats, we had a lot of centers that were coming up this year. Most of them have got commissioned in quarter three, and some of them are expected to get commissioned in quarter four. Since we are transitioning from the older center to the newer center, there was obviously a transition time, and because of which you see a muted growth in the YTD this year. We are confident that we should go back to double-digit growth starting the next financial year.

Shyam Srinivasan
Equity Research Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Yes, ma'am. But when I look at footfalls, I still see volume growth. So what explains that discrepancy between volume growth and revenue growth being much subdued?

Sriram Iyer
CEO of Apollo Health and Lifestyle Limited, Apollo Hospitals

See, what has happened is that the volume growth is primarily due to OP Footfalls. But specifically in our Cradles and Spectras, these are the centers where we have gone, moved into different centers. We didn't have enough rooms available. So that is why the entire challenge that you see with respect to the volume growth. Also, we had a significant challenge in quarter three. If you see, the growth has been because of Chennai as well. So we had a couple of centers in Chennai. There was an extended delay for us to recuperate back to the business. So that also caused this. So those are primarily the two reasons. And as I said, we'll be back to a double-digit growth, and we are expected to commission some of the centers in this quarter, in the quarter four.

Shyam Srinivasan
Equity Research Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Got it. Helpful. And just last point on this AHLL is on diagnostics, right? So we have done about 19%-20% growth, but the variation just looking at from an industry seems to be all over the place, right? So we have low single-digit growth to companies like you growing 20%. So anything you can speak from obviously, you're starting from a lower base, and maybe your margin trajectory is lower. But just want to understand what's happening there, and is it the case that hospitals are able to keep or hospital chains are able to keep their patients more within themselves?

Sriram Iyer
CEO of Apollo Health and Lifestyle Limited, Apollo Hospitals

See, I can talk about what we are really doing. As you rightly said, the industry, all the listed players are growing anywhere between 10%-12%. And out of that 10%-12%, the volume growth is pretty much in single digits. So most of the growth is being driven by price. The good thing for us is that our entire growth is being led by volume. So the focus on really driving expansion, opening centers, and investing in new labs over the period of years is giving this kind of results. So we are bullish that we'll be able to sustain at 20% kind of growth levels. And we will be hitting this year at INR 470 crore of top line. And as I said, our outlook for this quarter also is at 20% kind of growth levels.

With respect to the industry, I think at some point of time, I think the industry is also getting matured in that sense. There is some price play that is coming into this one. So we see some bit of price rationalization happening in the market from across the industry. So I think all that is also coming into play where the volume growth is slightly becoming challenging. But as I said, we are positioned well, and we'll continue to invest on diagnostic business, and we have an outlook of 20% growth in the coming year as well.

Shyam Srinivasan
Equity Research Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Understood. Helpful. Just a second question on Apollo 24/7. I'll be brief. We had two million registered users add up, but our daily active users have kind of come off. Is there a way in which we represent this number? Is it average versus period end? If you could help us, please.

Krishnan Akhileswaran
Group CFO, Apollo Hospitals

Yeah. That's the average number. What happens is that typically in the e-commerce, when you get the registered users, it takes a little bit of time before they start transacting into your system. This is a little cyclical in nature, but as you move forward, you would see that the impact of adding new customers into the daily active users and the weekly active users will start going down.

Shyam Srinivasan
Equity Research Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Just a request here because when we want to compare with historical numbers, it becomes very difficult. Last time, I think we had 8.8 lakhs or 8.5 lakhs. Now it is 6 lakhs. And now you're saying it's average. So for us to see whether traction is happening because the registered users are going up, but if the active users are not following commission, it's a request because if we change these parameters, then it's difficult for us to compare with historical numbers.

Krishnan Akhileswaran
Group CFO, Apollo Hospitals

No. It's been happen to happen. As far as the Q3 is concerned, as I said earlier also, this is the period where we saw the seasonality impact because of the holidays and festivals. But otherwise, the corresponding numbers are similar. And as I said previously, when you add new customer base, which is about 2 million for the entire quarter, the impact of that will start happening from the current quarter onwards. And maybe going forward, we'll start representing certain key metrics also so that you all are well informed about those numbers and compare versus the previous quarters.

Shyam Srinivasan
Equity Research Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Perfect. Thank you. Last question is on the GMV split. If you could give us some breakdown on what are the key line items in the GMV.

Krishnan Akhileswaran
Group CFO, Apollo Hospitals

INR 658 crore of GMV for Q3 is about 50% on the pharmacy, about 35% is the IP/OP, which is the funnel to the hospitals, and the rest about 20% is towards the diagnostic and the consultation.

Shyam Srinivasan
Equity Research Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Versus Q3, sorry, Q2, is it very dramatically different, this?

Krishnan Akhileswaran
Group CFO, Apollo Hospitals

Not exactly. There's a slight drop in the hospital side of the business. I think that's to do with the seasonality. But otherwise, yeah, I think nothing worrisome from that point of view, just the seasonality impact of Q3.

Shyam Srinivasan
Equity Research Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Thank you. Thank you, and all the best.

Krishnan Akhileswaran
Group CFO, Apollo Hospitals

Thank you.

Moderator

Thank you. We have a next question from the line of Nitin Agarwal from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.

Nitin Agarwal
Managing Director, DAM Capital

Thanks for taking my question. On the offline pharmacy, can you give us a nine month growth number for the offline business and the outlook that we have for the growth and profitability for this piece for the next couple of years?

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Our offline business has grown at 19.4%, and we continue to grow around 20%-22%. This is slightly because of the lower number of pharmacies we added during the year, which we are going to ramp up going forward.

Nitin Agarwal
Managing Director, DAM Capital

Mr. Reddy, how do you see that playing over the next two years? 20% CAGR, if you're on?

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

We will be between 20%-22% as we guided always. And this year, because of the lower number of stores, and as I said, we'll be going back to the regular normal increase. And we assure you that we'll be around that percentage.

Nitin Agarwal
Managing Director, DAM Capital

How does one look at profitability on this piece now over the next couple of years?

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Profitability, we have improved a lot. It will improve further, but I can't guide you with the exact number. You have seen this quarter a substantial improvement. We further have room to improve on that with the cost rationalization and growing the matured stores where we are focusing now.

Nitin Agarwal
Managing Director, DAM Capital

Okay. So if I were to be fair to say that with the guidance that we have that the digital business will be breaking even on its own over the next 6-8 quarters, well, effectively the offline EBITDA should pretty much should be equal to the overall healthcare EBITDA as we go forward six to eight quarters.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

I agree with you, but this will have independent growth, whereas they will be achieving with their own revenues and cost rationalization.

But you're right, Nitin.

Sriram Iyer
CEO of Apollo Health and Lifestyle Limited, Apollo Hospitals

You are right. On a comparative basis, but.

This should flow through to Apollo HealthCo.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Yes. We're looking at potentially INR 800 -INR 1,000 crore EBITDA on the overall healthcare business over the next couple of years.

Sriram Iyer
CEO of Apollo Health and Lifestyle Limited, Apollo Hospitals

Apollo HealthCo, yes. You can take that about 20% year-on-year growth.

Nitin Agarwal
Managing Director, DAM Capital

Right. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Moderator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we request you to restrict to two questions at a time. You may join back the queue for follow-up questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dheeresh Pathak from White Oak. Please go ahead.

Dheeresh Pathak
Senior Fund Manager and Director of Investments, White Oak

Yes. Thank you. So I hope I'm audible. I'm referring to slide 24 of the deck. So there on the right-hand side, you mentioned omnichannel pharmacy revenue, right, which is INR 2,583 crore, INR 2,583 crore. And on the left-hand side, the total healthcare revenue in the grid is INR 2,049 crore. So the difference is INR 534 crore. So obviously, there is some 24/7 revenue also in here, but the bulk of the difference is the front-end Apollo Pharmacy, right? That is the way to understand, right? When you say omnichannel pharmacy, that is what you refer to, right? But in the omnichannel pharmacy, do you also include 24/7 revenue, or do you exclude the 24/7 revenue?

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

We exclude the 24/7 revenue.

Dheeresh Pathak
Senior Fund Manager and Director of Investments, White Oak

How much is that, sir?

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Sanjiv, what was that revenue for YTD? Would you have that number offhand? That would be in the range of about for the quarter, we are roughly INR 300 crore-INR 325 crore.

Sanjiv Gupta
CFO, Apollo Hospitals

No, revenue.

Dheeresh Pathak
Senior Fund Manager and Director of Investments, White Oak

Revenue of 24/7.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Yeah, in the front-end.

Sanjiv Gupta
CFO, Apollo Hospitals

No, not front-end.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

24/7, he's saying.

Sanjiv Gupta
CFO, Apollo Hospitals

Digital revenue.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Digital.

Sanjiv Gupta
CFO, Apollo Hospitals

Digital revenue.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Digital, Sanjiv.

Sanjiv Gupta
CFO, Apollo Hospitals

Yeah. Digital revenue is in the same slide, you can refer to digital revenue of INR 325 crore. And if you are referring to.

Dheeresh Pathak
Senior Fund Manager and Director of Investments, White Oak

No, sir. That is online distribution as well as 24/7. I want you to split the online distribution and 24/7 into two.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

I was asking only IP/OP and diagnostics and consults-related revenues that you have.

Sanjiv Gupta
CFO, Apollo Hospitals

Yeah, understood. So that would be in the range of about INR 15 crore for the quarter.

Dheeresh Pathak
Senior Fund Manager and Director of Investments, White Oak

15 crore for the quarter. Okay. And when you refer to on track to achieve INR 1,000 crore revenue, 6% EBITDA, this is the omnichannel pharmacy business including the front-end Apollo Pharmacy, but excluding this Apollo 24/7, INR 15 crore a quarter. And this 6% is the pre-Ind-AS INR 116 crore, right, margin.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

That's right.

Sanjiv Gupta
CFO, Apollo Hospitals

That's correct.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

That's right where we are currently at about 5.85%.

Dheeresh Pathak
Senior Fund Manager and Director of Investments, White Oak

Okay. So this INR 15 crore on a GMV of INR 657 crore, it looks like less than 3% take rate. Is that the right way to think?

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

INR 657 crore includes the pharmacy also. So the INR 657 crore includes the pharmacy as well. So you have to exclude that pharmacy and then look at the take rate.

Dheeresh Pathak
Senior Fund Manager and Director of Investments, White Oak

Okay. So take out INR 200 crore roughly, so INR 457 crore. So INR 15 crore on INR 457 crore. That will still be.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

50%, he said, is pharmacy. 25 + 25, he said, is IP/OP and diagnostics. So maybe you can get offline to understand this from Sanjiv.

Dheeresh Pathak
Senior Fund Manager and Director of Investments, White Oak

Understood. See, I'll catch up. I'll catch up on. Okay. Thank you.

Moderator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arkopratim Pal from Sanjay Agarwal Broking. Please go ahead.

Arkopratim Pal
Research Analyst, Sanjay Agarwal Broking

Good afternoon, everyone. Can I audio well?

Moderator

Yes. Please go ahead.

Arkopratim Pal
Research Analyst, Sanjay Agarwal Broking

Yes, yes. My first question is, could you please share industry report on average occupancy rate within your hospital network for the month of December 2023, and how much it is growth as compared to December 2022?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

Said 66%.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Monthly number.

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

Monthly number is because.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

You'll have to come offline to take it from our investor relations, Krishnakumar. You can reach out to him, and he can provide you some guidance around that. The occupancy rate is also to do with the average length of stay, which has come down across the system. So if you look at year-on-year, we have been growing volumes at almost around 7% excluding institutional. We brought down some of the institutional cases. So while we are showing a 5.5% or 5.6% growth on inpatient volumes, if you look at the inpatient volumes December to December, only on the institutional and retail, which constitutes around 80%-85% of our business, that has grown by a healthy 7.5% in volume.

Arkopratim Pal
Research Analyst, Sanjay Agarwal Broking

Okay. I understand. My second question is based on current industry trends and your understanding of the healthcare landscape. What is your expectation about the demand scenario of the current and coming quarter compared to last quarter?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

So I think the structural demand is intact. And what we're seeing is that more people now have access to private insurance. And that's why we're seeing a significant growth in this segment. So definitely, more people who can afford corporate healthcare, and therefore, demand is increasing. And this is happening not only in the metros but in tier two cities as well.

Arkopratim Pal
Research Analyst, Sanjay Agarwal Broking

Okay. Understood. Thank you. Thank you so much for giving this answer.

Moderator

Thank you. We have a next question from the line of Siddhant Kanodia, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Siddhant Kanodia
Equity Analyst, Tusk Investment

Yeah. Good afternoon, everyone. I have a couple of questions. My first question is regarding in the last couple of years, medical tourism in India has seen quite a good uptick, especially in the Delhi-NCR region. So we are coming up with a Gurugram facility. So why aren't we looking to do brownfield in our existing Delhi facility?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

As you know, the existing Delhi facility is a joint venture with the Delhi government, but we are looking at an expansion there. Our international patient revenue there is 15% of total revenues. We do believe that Gurugram, which will be 100% owned by AHEL, will definitely offer an opportunity for us to increase our international patient revenue because of its location and because of the doctors and the clinical portfolio that we will offer there.

Siddhant Kanodia
Equity Analyst, Tusk Investment

Right. I'm just asking if the brownfield, the ramp-up happens a lot faster in brownfield, plus if we have vacant land?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

Yes. Currently, we're adding 50 beds. We're adding a huge neuro department there, neurology. So it's simultaneous, brownfield in the old hospital in Indraprastha and new hospital coming up in Gurugram.

Siddhant Kanodia
Equity Analyst, Tusk Investment

Okay. Okay. So there are plans to do brownfield as well. Okay. Okay. And my second question is that there was this article involving some kidney racket, which accused Apollo. So we haven't heard anything that have we gotten any clean chit, or what is the status so far?

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

The status is there has been no negative finding. This much I can say with confidence because we were fully compliant with all government regulations. There has been no finding.

Siddhant Kanodia
Equity Analyst, Tusk Investment

Okay. So there haven't been any negative finding. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you, ma'am. That's it from my side.

Moderator

Thank you. We have a next question from the line of Kunal Dhamesha from Macquarie. Please go ahead.

Kunal Dhamesha
Pharma and Healthcare Research Analyst, Macquarie

Thank you for the opportunity. Just one on the broader industry side. This proposed move to the 100% cashless health insurance. What could be the impact on the hospital industry, and specifically for Apollo?

Sriram Iyer
CEO of Apollo Health and Lifestyle Limited, Apollo Hospitals

For us, I don't see any impact coming out of this, any negative impact coming out of this because all our insurance businesses are all cashless. We have all empanelment across all large insurance companies as cashless. So working capital continues per se as such. Of course, we are also ensuring that I think one good thing which can come out of this is as everything becomes cashless, I think the larger industry will expect greater, faster payments from the insurance companies also. And we are hoping that some of that should hopefully come faster, and it should ideally for people like us should shorten the receivables period also. But otherwise, for us, nothing significant for now.

Kunal Dhamesha
Pharma and Healthcare Research Analyst, Macquarie

Sure. A second question on the INR 100 crore incremental doctor expenses that we have incurred this year. Can we say that it is primarily attributable to the 150 beds which we have added in Indore and rural or something for Eastern region and Northern region?

Sriram Iyer
CEO of Apollo Health and Lifestyle Limited, Apollo Hospitals

Not only that. It is something that we are planning across the system because we clearly have 66% occupancy to move to 70%, and we have even opportunity to grow some of the clinical programs as we spoke, right? So clearly, it is a combination of this and some of the clinical programs that we are planning.

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

There was a growth in oncology of 17%, neurology of 14%. All this growth is attributable to the new doctors that we've hired.

Kunal Dhamesha
Pharma and Healthcare Research Analyst, Macquarie

Sure. Sure. The last one, if you can share the take rates for the service lines for 24/7, the consultation, pharmacy delivery, and diagnostics?

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Yeah. So yeah. On the pharmacy side, as you know, that the entire pharmacy contracts to us as a revenue as pharmacy distribution, so that's a straight revenue to us. As for the consultation piece is concerned, consultation moves anything between 5%-7% depending upon the category of the doctor and whether it is clinic or the hospital. On the diagnostic side, it is roughly between 15%-18% depending upon the volumes as well as the class of diagnostics.

Neha Manpuria
Senior Analyst, Bank of America

Sure. Thank you. And all the best for that.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Thank you.

Moderator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you.

Suneeta Reddy
Managing Director, Apollo Hospitals

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for participating in our conference call. We truly believe that as we look ahead, we are confident that in the upcoming quarters, there would be very strong growth. We have delivered ahead of time on a bit of break-even for Apollo HealthCo. I'm sure we will continue to deliver on our strategic intent. With our network maintaining strong occupancies and ongoing expansions in key facilities, we are well prepared to seize emerging growth opportunities. I would also like to emphasize that our unwavering confidence in the investments we've made and the solutions that we're working on. These efforts will surely differentiate us because they're anchored in a strong clinical core with convenience and access as key enablers. Once again, thank you for joining the call, and we look forward to connecting with you in the future.

Moderator

Thank you, ma'am. On behalf of Apollo Hospitals Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.

Obul Reddy
CFO of the Pharmacy Division, Apollo Hospitals

Yep. Thank you.

Powered by