Good morning, everyone. I welcome you to Aster DM Healthcare's earnings conference call for the third quarter of financial year 2024. The company declared Q3 and nine-month financial results for financial year 2023-2024. With us, we have the senior management of Aster DM Healthcare, namely Ms. Alisha Moopen, Deputy Managing Director, Mr. T.J. Wilson, Non-Executive Director, Dr. Nitish Shetty, CEO of Aster India, Mr. Amitabh Johri, Joint CFO, Mr. Sunil Kumar, Joint CFO, and Mr. Hitesh Dhaddha, Chief of Investor Relations and M&A. Dr. Azad Moopen, our Chairman and Managing Director, is unable to join today's earnings call due to some personal commitments. I would like to inform everyone about how we will conduct this call. All external attendees will be in listen-only mode for the duration of the entire call. We'll start the call with opening remarks by management, followed by an interactive Q&A session.
During the Q&A session, you will get a chance to ask a question by raising your hand by clicking on the raise hand icon in Zoom application at the bottom of your window. We'll call out your name, after which your line will be unmuted, and you'll be able to ask your question. We request you to please limit your questions to two, but not more than three per participant at a time. Certain forward-looking statements may be discussed in this meeting, and such statements are subject to certain risks and uncertainties like government actions, local political or economic developments, technological risks, and many other factors that could cause actual results to differ materially. Aster DM Healthcare Limited will not be in any way responsible for any action taken based on such statements and undertakes no obligation to publicly update these forward-looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances.
With this, I will ask Ms. Alisha Moopen to start with the opening remarks. Over to you, Ms. Alisha.
Thank you, Bala. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining our third quarter and nine-month FY 2024 earnings call. Ladies and gentlemen, I will provide an update, of course, about the most important development, which was the voting on the restructuring and the sale of the GCC business, and of course we'll be giving an update on the consolidated quarterly performance, and also touching on the performance of our GCC operations before Dr. Nitish talks about India business for the quarter. On the segregation of the GCC and the India business, I really want to express my profound gratitude to our esteemed shareholders for their resounding approval of our initiative to segregate our GCC operations. This endorsement not only grants us the necessary mandate but also instills the enthusiasm to nurture and strengthen our operations in India, underscoring our commitment to align with your trust in our strategic direction.
The voting of the resolutions regarding the segregation of GCC got concluded on the 22nd of January, 2024, with a significant voting in favor of separating the GCC business from our Indian operations. In the resolution, which involves approving the sale of a material subsidiary, shareholders showed strong support with an impressive 99.96% of votes in favor. In the resolution, which involves approving the sale of the GCC business as a related-party transaction, we're very pleased to report an overwhelming support with an impressive 99.86% of eligible votes in favor. It is very crucial to highlight that, given the nature of this resolution as a related-party transaction, the related parties were excluded from voting in favor of the transaction.
Excluded those considered as related parties under the relevant law, holders representing 26% of votes were entitled to vote on the majority-of-minority resolution, which encompasses 16% of institutional investors and 10% retail holders. Of the same, holders representing 22% shares voted towards the transaction, comprising 15% institutional investors and 7% retail holders. Remarkably, all the 20 institutional investors cast their vote in favor of the transaction, again showing unanimous support amongst the major domestic and foreign institutional investors. Among the top 100 investors, merely one investor voted against the transaction, again underscoring a widespread approval. Voting among the retail holders also yielded excellent results, with an impressive 99.97% of retail holders voting in favor of the transaction. Really, in summary, an overwhelming 99.86% of votes supported the majority-of-minority resolution, reflecting a strong confidence in an approval of the proposed transaction.
Moving forward, post the successful closing of the proposed transaction, our intention, as published earlier, is to distribute between 70%-80% of the upfront consideration of the $903 million as a dividend to our shareholders. This dividend is expected to be within the range of INR 110-INR 120 per share, subject, of course, to the necessary corporate approvals mandated by the law. The closing of the transaction is pending the fulfillment of certain condition precedent, including approval from competent merger control authorities in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I'm pleased to share that we're currently in an advanced stage of completion of all these conditions. We're diligently working towards meeting all these requirements to ensure a very smooth and timely closure of the transaction by the end of this financial year FY 2024.
The overwhelming support from our shareholders, this really serves as a very strong affirmation of our strategic direction to segregate the India and the GCC businesses. This strategic move is aimed at unlocking value, demonstrating our commitment to creating sustainable growth, and delivering enhanced returns for our shareholders. Now, moving into the consolidated financial performance for quarter three FY 2024. On a consolidated basis, our revenue has experienced significant growth, reaching INR 3,711 crores, which represents a 16% year-on-year increase supported by the ramp-up of the new hospitals, which was started in the last two financial years, which has allowed us to expand our capacity by more than 780 beds over the last year. The strong growth extended to across both the Indian and the GCC regions and was further amplified by various cost-saving initiatives as well.
As a result, our operating EBITDA has exhibited robust growth, increasing 28% year-on-year to reach INR 583 crores, up from INR 456 crores in Q3 FY 2023, resulting in an expansion of our overall operating EBITDA margins to 15.7% compared to 14.3% in Q3 FY 2023. Our headline PAT performance has also demonstrated a strong growth, with a 29% year-on-year increase to INR 179 crores in Q3 FY 2024 as compared to INR 139 crores in Q3 FY 2023. If you actually exclude the impact of the new hospital losses and the non-recurring restructuring costs which were incurred during the quarter, PAT has increased by 53% to INR 213 crores in Q3 FY 2024 as opposed to INR 139 crores in Q3 FY 2023.
Coming to the GCC performance, our GCC business has achieved a 14% year-on-year revenue growth in Q3 FY 2024, reaching INR 2,769.61 crores, primarily driven by improvement in our occupancy rate, which has reached 58% during the quarter compared to 50% in Q3 FY 2023, indicating a very effective asset utilization following all our investments in the last year. Our operating EBITDA has surged by 24% to INR 415 crores, with EBITDA margins standing at 15% this quarter versus 13.8% in Q3 FY 2023 due to better performance from the hospital vertical, retail vertical, cost optimization initiatives, as well as operational leverage. Excluding one-off exceptional items, the PAT saw a year-on-year increase of 20%, standing at INR 131 crores as compared to INR 109 crores in Q3 FY 2023. Across the board, all our divisions have experienced notable growth.
Hospitals have increased by 15% year-on-year, pharmacy by 12%, and clinics have seen a 20% improvement year-over-year. Amitabh will be elaborating more on the GCC financial later. I'm also very happy to inform you that Aster Pharmacy will declare the winner in the Best Pharmacy Retailer of the Year and Best Omnichannel Loyalty Program of the Year at the Middle East Retail and E-commerce Summit in 2023. I really want to express, again, my heartfelt gratitude once again to all of you for your trust that you've placed in us. We're genuinely excited about the journey ahead, and we're fully committed to delivering not only value but sustained growth in the years to come. Your confidence, it really fuels our determination, and we look forward to exceeding your expectations and creating shared success.
I would now request our India CEO, Dr. Nitish Shetty, to share more details on the India business and its growth perspective. Over to you, Dr.
Thank you, Alisha. Very good morning to everyone. Thank you for joining us on this quarter three financial year 2024 earnings call. India's healthcare market is poised for remarkable growth. It's expected to reach $638 billion by 2025, with a CAGR of 22%. Recognizing this potential, we are committed to expanding our healthcare services in the region of our presence. Regarding our quarter three financial year 2024 performance in India, we are thrilled to report a 23% year-over-year revenue increase, reaching INR 949 crores, driven by ongoing capacity expansion efforts of adding 750+ beds this financial year. Our focus on cost optimization and operational leverage has boosted our operating EBITDA by 37% to INR 168 crores, resulting in an operating EBITDA margin of 17.7%, up from 15.9% in the quarter three of financial year 2023.
Notably, our major hospital achieved an operating EBITDA margin of 21.7%, contributing to overall hospital margin of nearly 20%. Our post-NCI PAT has more than doubled, showing an impressive 105% year-to-year growth to INR 62 crore in quarter three of financial year 2024. Looking ahead, we remain optimistic of about our prospects in India. To capitalize on a vast population and low hospital bed densities, we are strategically investing in significant capital expenditure, aiming for a total bed capacity of over 6,600 by the financial year 2027, which includes adding approximately 1,700 beds. Furthermore, we are strengthening the healthcare ecosystem by establishing 224 labs, patient experience centers, and 223 pharmacies across Karnataka, Kerala, and Telangana. These initiatives have contributed to a 36% year-to-year revenue increase during the nine months of financial year 2024.
We are also proud to announce that Aster Medcity, a flagship hospital, has been ranked number one in the Best Multispecialty Hospital Emerging category by Week Hansa Research for the year 2023. This reflects our dedication to delivering quality healthcare services. As we move forward, we are confident that our focused approach in India will yield positive results. We look forward to sharing our progress with you in the upcoming quarters. Now, I invite our joint CFOs, Amitabh and Sunil, to provide more insight to our financial performance. Thank you.
Thank you, Dr. Nitish. Alisha, thanks for this good morning, everyone. First of all, I would like to thank you for joining the earnings call for quarter three. I'll be covering the consolidated performance for the business. I shall be also covering the GCC performance, and then I would request Sunil to take over the India-related performance update. On a consolidated basis, our revenue for the operations for quarter three FY 2024 was INR 3,711 crores, an increase of 16% year-on-year. Consolidated operating EBITDA for the quarter was at INR 583 crores as against INR 456 crores during the same period last financial year, which is a growth of 28%. Consolidated PAT post-NCI is at INR 179 crores as compared to INR 139 crores in quarter three of FY 2023. PAT losses for new hospitals amounted to INR 20 crores.
Operational losses from affiliates, largely Aster Arabia, our joint venture in Saudi Arabia, has amounted to INR 8 crores, and one-time restructuring costs towards the segregation amounted to INR 6 crores that were recorded in this quarter. Excluding these items, the adjusted PAT post-NCI stands at INR 213 crores in quarter three FY 2024 as against INR 139 crores in quarter three FY 2023, a strong growth of 53% on a year-on-year basis.
Now, getting specific on the GCC performance, revenue from our GCC operations in quarter three FY 2024 was INR 2,761 crores, an increase of 14% on a year-on-year basis. EBITDA from GCC operations stands at INR 415 crores as against INR 334 crores in quarter three FY 2023, a growth of 24% on a year-on-year basis. PAT post-NCI, from GCC operations stands at INR 117 crores as against INR 109 crores in FY 2023 quarter three, which is a growth of 7%.
Post the adjustments that we had, called out earlier, the non-recurring items and PAT post- NCI stands at INR 131 crores in quarter three FY 2024, a growth of 20%. Coming to segmental performance for the quarter, GCC hospital revenue was at INR 1,222 crores, a strong increase of 15% year-over-year basis, and the EBITDA stands at INR 210 crores compared to INR 171 crores in FY 2023 quarter three, a growth of 22% with an EBITDA margin of 17.1%. Our new hospitals that went operational late last year are seeing better performance, while mature hospitals are seeing higher occupancy. Overall, GCC hospital occupancy has increased from 50% in quarter three FY 2023 to 58% in quarter three FY 2024. GCC clinics revenue stands at INR 792 crores, an increase of 20% year-over-year basis.
EBITDA for GCC clinics segment stands at INR 180 crores compared to INR 142 crores in FY 2023 Q3, a growth of 27% and an EBITDA margin of 22.7%. GCC pharmacies revenue stands at INR 932 crores, an increase of 12% year-over-year basis. EBITDA increased from INR 98 crores to INR 118 crores, an increase of 19% on a year-over-year basis. EBITDA margin for this segment in quarter three FY 2024 was at 12.6%. GCC net debt stands at $155 million as of 31 December 2023 compared to $163 million as of 31 March 2023. The capital expenses for FY 2024 quarter three were at INR 78 crores. Now, I would request joint CFO, Mr. Sunil Kumar, to take you through the India performance during the period. Thank you.
Thank you, Amitabh. Good morning, everyone. For the quarter ended 31 December 2023, India revenues have increased to INR 949 crores, up by 23% from INR 771 crores in Q3 FY 2023. Operating EBITDA has increased to INR 168 crores, with a margin of 17.7% compared to INR 123 crores, with a margin of 15.9% in Q3 FY 2023, with a growth of 37%. PAT post-NCI for the quarter three FY 2024 is at INR 62 crores compared to INR 30 crores in Q3 FY 2023, with a growth of 105% year-on-year. For a nine months ended 31 December 2023, India revenues have increased to INR 2,721 crores, up by 25% as compared to nine months FY 2023. Operating EBITDA has increased to INR 453 crores, with a margin of 16.6% as compared to INR 342 crores in nine months FY 2023, with a growth of 32%.
PAT post-NCI for nine months FY 2024 is at INR 153 crores compared to INR 99 crores in nine months FY 2023, with a growth of 54% year-on-year. We have been actively pursuing margin expansion in our hospitals by implementing rigorous efficiency measures in the areas of revenue assurance, material cost, and other overheads. This aims to enhance revenue, optimize operational cost, improve ROC, and, ultimately strengthen the overall performance of our business in India. This is evidenced in the performance of our hospital and clinical segments. Specifically, the revenue from India hospitals and clinics, excluding the O&M Asset- Light Hospitals, stands at INR 816 crores in quarter three FY 2024, with a growth of 19% year-on-year. Operating EBITDA stands at INR 181 crores, with a margin of 20.8% as compared to INR 143 crores in Q3 FY 2023, with a growth of 27% year-on-year.
ROC for this segment stands at 21.8%, in quarter three FY 2024, trailing 12 months, compared to 17.9% in the same period last year. Moving on to the performance of our mature hospitals, operating for over three years, for the quarter ended December 31, 2023, revenue rose to INR 816 crores, making a 16% increase from INR 705 crores in quarter 3 FY 2023. Operating EBITDA climbed to INR 177 crores, with a margin of 21.7% compared to INR 141 crores, with a margin of 20.1% in quarter three FY 2023, reflecting the growth of 26%. Furthermore, ROC of mature hospitals showed a significant improvement, reaching 27.1% compared to 19.2% in the corresponding period last year. For the first nine months of FY 2023, capital expenditure amounting to INR 287 crores has been incurred, with nearly 60% allocated to expanding our capacity.
Aster net debt stands at INR 632 crores as on 31 December 2023, compared to INR 510 crores as on 31 March 2023. On that note, I conclude my remarks. We would be happy to answer any questions that you may have. Now, I request Balchandar to open the question and answer session. Thank you.
Thanks, Sunil. We can move on to the Q&A session. Before moving on to the Q&A session, I would also like to highlight that if all the participants can introduce yourself with your name and the company that you are associated with. If you're not associated with the company and if you're an individual investor, you can highlight that also. Moving on to the Q&A session, the first question is from Sanjay Shah. Sanjay, if you can unmute yourself and ask your question.
Yeah. Am I audible? Sir, I'm audible.
Yes, Sanjay. You're audible now.
Hi, hi, gentlemen. Good morning, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I would like to understand the strategy for the Aster India. As you highlighted, the growth path on increasing the bed counts. Can you elaborate how we are planning for next two to three years on hospital side, lab, and even our pharmacy? That was my question. More, it was related to, we came across the interview that you are planning to even invite some strategic partner or as a promoter to carry forward this growth story. So can you highlight upon that, please? Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you, Sanjay. Maybe Dr. Nitish, I can ask you to answer the India strategy and talk about the partner.
Yeah. Thanks, Alisha. So, Sanjay, in our presentation also, we are focused heavily on the future plans. To put it in a nutshell, our future plans is to be among the among the top three in India. That's our vision is very clear in the next five years. We want to be top three in India. Having said that, our immediate plan is to ramp up the existing capacity beds. That is from 4,800 to close to 6,000-6,600. We are planning to kind of roll up 1,700 beds in the next three years by year 2027. This is the combination of brownfield and greenfield projects. 60% of the beds are going to be added as a brownfield. Brownfield, when I say brownfield, it is the expansion of the existing capacity of the existing hospitals.
Like, we are adding beds in Kerala cluster, Medcity, and a few of our hospitals there. We are expanding the capacity with hospitals in Karnataka. We are planning a greenfield project. Basically, in Kerala, we are adding close to a 600-bed hospital. To start off, it's 460 beds in Kochi, and then we are adding a 250-bed hospital in our part of Kerala in Kasaragod. These are the greenfield projects. This is a plan we have, but we are also open for further inorganic expansion in adjoining geography. We are dominantly present in three states now: Karnataka, Kerala, and Andhra. We have some presence in Maharashtra also and Telangana. But we are also actively looking at expanding our footprints in the neighboring geography. But also, we are also looking at having presence in northern India in a state like Uttar Pradesh.
We are very actively looking at opportunity in Maharashtra through inorganic, which can be through M&A. Coming to the labs and the pharmacy vertical, this is something we have started to create an integrated healthcare ecosystem around the hospitals. This is basically to enhance the patient experience and convenience. So for that reason, we have deployed close to 230, 223 lab and lab experience centers, and then around close to 230 pharmacies. And these pharmacies and labs are located in a geography where we already have a presence in terms of having large hospitals. So this is a plan now.
But right now, we are focusing on pharmacies and lab to kind of break even, bring in the financial viability and sustainability, which we are confident of doing it in the lab in the next quarter itself, this quarter, quarter four. When it comes to pharmacy, we might take another year or two to break even. But at the same time, if we are expanding our footprints in other geography through hospitals, we'll be also scaling up in terms of the lab and pharmacy presence in other geography.
Sir, when we talk about growing our bed counts, especially in Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities, so, is the rising cost of the bed, is that proposition works well for us, or we are going for some light asset model? The other thing was about pharmacy. How do you see that change? Are we planning to go into B2C, for general pharmacy, or only to the customer or the patient who are in-house in our hospitals that only is our forte?
I mean, it's it's both. It's a combination of both. We are it's both B2C and B2B. Because we are deploying this pharmacy on a standalone basis in the geography where we are present. So, it'll cater majorly to the B2C in the geography where we are present. But also, we are leveraging on our B2B advantage, what we have in terms of our brand, brand presence and brand pool.
About Tier 2, Tier 3 expansion?
Yeah. Tier 2, Tier 3. See, the biggest strength of Aster, if you really look at us, 60%-70% of our beds are in the Tier 2, Tier 1 cities already. And only 30%-30% of our beds are in the metro. We have that expertise to make a working model, a viable model, a successful model in the Tier 2, Tier 1 cities. That gives us tremendous confidence in kind of exploring the opportunities in Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 cities, which we have already done, through our satellite models. We have deployed four hospitals in different geographies. We have done two of those in Kerala, one in Andhra, and one in Karnataka. We had a mixed response to that.
50% of the models have done well, and 50% are taking some time to kind of reach a state of where it gives us the confidence to pursue this model. Early days now, but we are now in the phase of just observing how this model will play out in the next one year. But we are confident post one year, this model will demonstrate the viability in terms of we have the these models are asset-led because it might not generate enough margins in terms of EBITDA, but these models are good for ROCs, economic capital on the board. So we are looking at this model closely, but probably in a year down the line, we may pursue this model.
Yeah, I appreciate. So my last question was regarding any landmark we have received or on getting any leads or any inquiries about our strategic partnership in India for Indian operation?
I would like to request, Alisha or.
Sure. Sure, Dr. Nitish. So Sanjay, I think we've been very lucky as Aster. We've had a couple of PEs who've been partners with us over the last 10, 15 years. Of course, you know, with all PEs, they do at some point exit. We've had some, some people who've been with us for a long time. So at that point, we would look at having someone else join us. We are trying to look for the right strategic partner for us who would be able to assist us in further value creation as we are now looking at the India-only strategy. So, early days, but we hope that we'll have, we'll have, someone coming on board when the time is right.
Thank you, ma'am. Really helpful. I'll come back in queue. Thank you very much.
Sanjay, just also wanted to add to what Alisha mentioned that we are seeing a lot of interest coming in from the PE investor side as well. You know, so there are many PE investors who are showing keenness to come into this kind of opportunity. But we are also evaluating from various perspectives on what partner will make sense for our long-term growth journey.
Great. Great. Good luck to you, sir. Thank you.
Thank you, Sanjay. The next participant who's asking a question is Amrish. Amrish, if you can unmute yourself.
Thank you for the opportunity, and congratulations on a good set of numbers. My name is Amrish, and I'm an individual investor. Permit me to nitpick on the sequential numbers. If you could throw some more color on the Karnataka operations. So just on a sequential basis, the financial results are a little muted. Partly, I understand because of the Whitefield expansion. But also, if I look at the operational metrics, if you could shed some light on the operational beds have gone down, and our PECs have reduced quite significantly from, I think, 76 to 50. Is there something to look at over here, or is it just a one-off?
Thank you, Amrish. Sunil, maybe you can go into the.
Yeah. Yeah. I'll start with that. Maybe Dr. Nitish can add to this. So Amrish, thanks for the question. So with respect to Karnataka cluster, yes, right? See, you know, Karnataka cluster, you all know that quarter three is a, you know, quarter of festivals, right, from October to November to December. We always see that occupancy dip happening there, right? And, when you look at the occupancy and also, that is a dip which has happened that is reflecting on the little bit of the numbers also. For example, CMI had a, I think, 8%-10% dip specifically due to the festival season. And also, yes, that Whitefield coming into picture, it's diluting at the cluster level margins also. But quarter three, or the, you know, nine months when you look at, we are at 19.4% margin, operating EBITDA margin for Karnataka and Maharashtra cluster.
But if you exclude the Whitefield, we are at 22.2%. So that way, we are quite strong there. And also, we are already seeing the January numbers coming in. We have a very good month across the India, not only Karnataka and Maharashtra. That is one bit of it. Now, coming on the other PEC numbers, yes, PEC numbers have come down. I think we are in the peak. We were at something like 250+. Now, it has come down to 223-224. And that is basically because we have closed down certain franchisee collection centers. So you already know that out of the 220-odd numbers, we have 16 labs that are processing labs. And balance 208 is basically your collection centers, which we call as patient experience centers. And these things usually are done through a franchisee. Company doesn't invest in it.
You know, and you always know when you do a ramp-up, you always look at, you know, the other franchisee partner also looks for a break-even very quickly. For certain locations, may not really work well. Those cases, we are trying to either close down or shift from that location to another location. And that is a change which is happening due to which only the numbers have come down.
Thank you. And the operational beds in Karnataka, is there anything to read in that?
Yeah. No, no. It's basically, it has happened in Madegowda Hospital. Aster, you know, Madegowda Hospital had a total bed capacity of 100 beds with operational beds of 89. Now, currently, its occupancy is quite low, right? So when I say occupancy is low, it's between around 20-odd beds. So we can't keep all the 100 beds operational. So we ensured that to save the cost, we have quartered off certain beds, basically, and only kept around 40 beds as currently operational to drive that.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you.
Second question, just a broader question on the use of funds. So we're going to pay out 70%-80% as a dividend. The balance 20%-30%, is this as Dr. Nitish has already highlighted, that perhaps we will use this for inorganic, or will we use this to reduce debt, or is there any other plan for this at the moment?
So I think, Amrish, we are still working with the board to look at what evaluate the opportunities. Like what Dr. Nitish said, we'll have to be opportunistic in some of those decisions. So, of course, there will be a small fund that is available post this, but though it's still kind of board is still evaluating the various options.
Thank you. I wish everyone the best. Thank you.
Thank you, Amrish. The next question is from Bino. Bino, if you can unmute yourself.
Yeah. Good morning. I hope I'm audible.
Yes, Bino. You're audible.
Okay. Great. So I just had a question around the broad strategy thought behind getting a PE partner in. So you already have a pretty good expansion plan in place, adding almost 40% more to the capacity over the next three years. You have identified the geographic areas where to grow, etc. How would this change? Suppose you actually get in a PE partnership, how will that investment change the strategic direction, and how would it accelerate things?
So if I can take up this, Alisha. Yeah. So, Bino, thanks for the questions. As Dr. Nitish laid out, you know, the organic plans are pretty much in place, and the cash that business is generating, you know, that India is generating, I think would be kind of self-sufficient to be able to help us deliver on the organic growth plans. So I think the PE partner will kind of help more on the inorganic front and some of the other, you know, new-age initiatives that we may want to take up in future. So I think it's more going to be an add-on to what our existing strong growth plans are and, you know, how we can create more value for our shareholders in future through those initiatives.
Got it. Got it. Thank you.
Thank you, Bino. The next question is from Alankar. Alankar, you may please unmute yourself.
Yeah. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. This is Alankar Garude from Kotak Institutional Equities. So my first question is, now we have delivered a pretty strong, 20% EBITDA margins in a seasonally weak quarter in the India business, amidst the on I mean, despite all that expansion which we have carried out in the last, 12 months or so. Now, going forward, there is, as you said, that further expansion planned, then on top of I mean, within that expansion, it's going to be a mix of, 40% greenfield and, then some of the low-margin O&M, satellite hospitals as well. So just, if you could, help us understand, how the EBITDA margin trajectory, given all these moving parts in the India business, is going to be over the next, say, two to three years.
Yeah. Sunil?
Yeah. Thank you, Alankar, for the question. Yes. So what you said is very right. For the hospital clinic segment, right, we are clocked at a quarter at 20.8%, and for a nine-month period, we are at 20.2%. And, even at the consolidated level, we are at 16.6%. And, one of the things which we are able to expand margin margin is basically because of the multiple measures which we have taken internally, whether, which I talked about in my speech also on certain, you know, optimization measures, whether it's revenue assurance, or whether it's the manpower, you know, material cost savings. So material cost savings also, we have driven down from a highest of 25% now, which we are doing at almost like 20%-21.5%.
So all those things are resulting in margin expansion, and we see that still a lot of scope is there in terms of manpower and other overheads which we are trying to do that now. Keeping that in mind, when you look at the margin expansion, I can't give exact numbers, but broadly, what we see you see, we also have to understand that, as Dr. Nitish called out, our 70% of the beds are in the non-metros and only 30% in the metros. But still, we have a very good RPOB of almost INR 40,000. And also with a large brownfield expansion happening in coming years, next two to three years, we see that there will be no much of a EBITDA drag or a margin drag.
Including all the expansion of 1,700 beds, we are looking at in next two to three years, approximately only in the hospital and clinic segment, we are looking at at least 300-400 basis points expansion, which is expected in next two to three years. In terms of consolidated also, we can look at beyond those numbers because, one of the things, which is dragging the EBITDA at the consolidated level is the new verticals which we started, like labs and pharmacy. So those are expected to stop the cash burn. With that added advantage, we should grow, you know, beyond 20%, in next two to three years. I hope that answers your question, Alankar. Yes.
Alankar, I think we're very mindful, just to add to what Sunil said about making sure the margins continue to improve. So I think we've designed the expansion also very much to ensure that there is no drag. I think we've got sufficient capacity now, still got utilization to go, as well as, like what Sunil mentioned, with all the cost-saving initiatives. We don't expect any expansion that we plan to do over the next few years, which are penciled in, to have a drag. So we would only see a margin expansion happening going forward.
Understood. That's helpful. Maybe just taking that point further, if you have to break down our margins across the three clusters in India, even the flagship cluster, we are at 21%. And I think in the previous call, we did allude to certain factors which lead to the Kerala cluster margins being lower than what we would have ideally liked. And then on top of that, we have Karnataka, Maharashtra, and then Andhra, Telangana, of course, is clearly suboptimal. So when you talk about these 300, 400 basis points, are there any low-hanging fruits across some of these clusters which you would want to specifically highlight?
Sorry. Yeah, Alankar. See, when we say low-hanging, what we are seeing is that it's all about the occupancy, right? If you look at currently, we are at a very optimal capacity of 68%, 69%, correct, or 70% in the current quarter. And every occupancy which increases the volume we drive down or the revenue, incremental revenue which comes in, we see the majority of it coming down to the bottom line. And specifically, for example, when we talked about expansion, you know, we have a 100-bed expansion happening in Kannur. See, Kannur is very near to, in the higher teens is what the EBITDA margin is there. With adding 100 beds, what will happen is that there is no fixed cost to increase, because of which we can expand the margin faster there.
Then also, Aster Medcity, which is running at approximately 90% occupancy, there also, we are adding 100 beds there. That is expected to get operational in the next six months or seven months' time. With that coming also, we are looking at a margin expansion very quickly because you don't have to add too many manpower, except for the direct manpower like nurses and few junior doctors. The majority of your consultants, senior consultants are already there. So again, we don't see that. The same thing which is going to happen in our Whitefield also. Whitefield was a new unit started. The cash burn, what we expected compared to that, we are doing really well there. Even the ramp-up which is happening there in terms of occupancy, volumes, and the revenue is really good.
It's going fine; it'll hit the numbers faster than CMI, what it took almost six years. It can do it really early. So keeping that in mind, we see major expansion margins coming in Kerala because of the brownfield expansion and even in Karnataka and Maharashtra cluster also because all are reached a very mature stage in the occupancy where the incremental revenue, the, you know, the float-on, which will happen to the EBITDA is quite high.
Thank you, sir.
Yeah. What Sunil had made is an observation. Other low-hanging fruit is in Kerala. See, 70% of our patients are cash patients still because of our presence in Tier 2, Tier 3 cities. And then the earlier challenges was the minimum wages of the nurses, which has impacted our margin. But that has to be corrected. Market has to absorb that. So there is a headroom to correct the pricing. And if you really look at the ARPOB, how the ARPOB numbers have grown year-over-year in Kerala, that will continue to grow. And in fact, it will do better in the coming months, I guess. That's another easy part. But we need to be mindful of the paying capacity of the people. But going by what we have from our previous experience, the affordability is not a major challenge in a state like Kerala.
That's not the upside we have, which is going to unfold in the next months, the next months, and years to come.
Understood, sir. One final question, if I may. So given that, say, 30%, as you said, of our beds are in the metros, if you have to compare, say, an Aster hospital in a Tier 2, Tier 3 market versus, say, your hospital in Bangalore, in terms of the clinical mix, the surgical specialty mix, how would you broadly compare these two, I mean, sets of hospitals?
Yeah. Let's take an example of our flagship hospital in Medcity, which is the Tier 1 city. It's not in the metro. But when it comes to clinical competence and the specialty mix, it's at par with the metro hospital in terms of the competency level as well as the specialty mix. There's nothing that Medcity can't do where it has to be referred to the hospital in metro Bangalore. In fact, it's at par in certain areas. It is better than any of the metro hospitals because of the clinical talent and infrastructure what we have there. Beyond Medcity, even in the Tier 2 cities like Kannur and Calicut, the work we are closing towards being a quaternary care hospital there.
Even when I say quaternary care, robotic surgeries, organ transplant, all this work is happening in the Tier 2, Tier 3 city of hospitals of ours. So that's a conviction of what is going to happen in the future and how the things are going to evolve. I think Aster reflects what is going to play out in India in the coming years, the future. What happens in Aster is going to happen in the Indian healthcare landscape across the states also. But I think we will be the flagbearer of this change. And we have that conviction that this what model we have created is here to stay and is going to evolve going forward.
Thank you, sir. That's helpful.
Thank you, Alankar. The next question is from Naman.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. It's just a follow-up on the previous participant's question. First is on the beds and expansion side. We have almost 4,800 bed capacity in India, and we have operationalized around 3,500 beds. How many and where are the major beds operationalization we are seeing from the existing bed capacity over the next three years?
Sunil?
Yeah. Thank you, Naman. See, when you looked at 4,800 beds, only if you say 3,500 beds, what you're looking at is operational census beds. There are also another 900+ non-census beds which are operational. So if you look at that way, almost 4,500 beds are operational, okay? So capacity which is the Tier 2 operationalized, which already have the capacity, equipments, or the medical furniture is already ready, we have to just operate that is somewhere between 250-300 beds. That is basically in three places. One is in Andhra, that is Guntur. Then you have our newly opened Aster Whitefield Hospital because in the phase I, we opened almost 350 beds. Another phase II is there, which is in work in progress, which is 150 beds. Out of 350 beds, we have only operationalized 140-150 beds. So still, there is a scope to operationalize.
Another 50 beds which is pending is our Aster G. Madegowda Hospital, which is an O&M satellite. So, Naman, I hope that answers the first part of your question. What was the second question?
Yes, good. Second part is, out of the pipeline of 7,800 beds, how much is it brownfield and greenfield?
So as of now, if you look at almost, I would say, see, when you say greenfield, really, which we are driving, it is basically coming in the capital, our Aster Capital Trivandrum. That is the 450 beds which is greenfield. Then you have got in another in the north of Kerala, which is Kasaragod, which is 264 beds or 254 beds, which is the greenfield. Otherwise, the majority of is the O&M projects or the brownfield expansions which we are doing.
Got it. One last question. As per your PPT, we have seen there are quite a small few smaller format hospitals. There are four to five hospitals which have a huge bed capacity of more than 300 or 400 beds. We have seen hospitals talk about building larger format hospitals to have a larger operating leverage. Any thoughts around this strategy that we would look going forward, increasing our bed capacity into hospitals which are just currently 100 or 200-bedded and moving them to 400 beds, 300 beds capacity to get a major leverage?
Yeah, Naman, you're right. Larger format hospital makes more sense in terms of financial viability and return on investment. That's a way forward. But if you really look at our strategy, we believe in a cluster approach where we are focused on particular geography and maximize our footprint there. In that context, a combo of both large and mid-sized hospital always helps. It's like a hub-and-spoke model. But if you're getting into entirely a new geography, a large format hospital is a must. That's what we have learned over a period of time. Now, we believe in that. That's a way of modeling going forward. The smaller hospitals, when you talk about smaller hospital in Aster Group, it's all about apart from the satellite, it is mid-sized hospitals which are in the range of 200-300. Right now, that's an ideal capacity in Tier 2, Tier 3 cities.
But when it comes to metro, a hospital of 500 beds is a prerequisite and it's a must now. In that context, the mixed what we have is right. But if you're going to new geography, we'll be pursuing a larger model. But in the area where we are already dominant, we are not averse to adding a hospital of size of 200-300.
Got it. This answers my question. Thanks, Sunil.
Thank you. A gentle reminder for the participants to click on the raise hand icon to be added to the Q&A question queue. The next question is from Harith.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the labs and pharmacies division. Can you give a sense of our plans in terms of network expansion, both on the pharmacy side as well as the lab business? When I look at the pharmacy count as of December 2023, it's declined a bit on a year-over-year basis. Is there any change in thought process there?
Yep. Doctor i s asking about the yeah. See, I'll just start with Dr. Nitish. You can pitch in on the strategy bit of it. So, Harith, with respect to the pharmacy bit of it, at the peak level, we were at 257. Now, we are at 220-plus. When you open retail stores, we have to see that the yield per day per store, right? It has to increase at an expected number. When the ramp-up is slower, we try to do certain corrective measures to see that we can optimize on the revenue generation. If that is not working out, then there is no point in staying in that location and burn the money. So the idea is to relocate those locations. At the same time, we always told that we are not trying to be a standalone pharmacy chain. That is not the idea at all.
The whole idea of bringing the labs and pharmacy was basically to ensure that we build an ecosystem around our hospitals so that from the initial teleconsultations to the OP and IP procedures and also the post-discharge, the lab collections or the pharmacy delivery discharge medicines or the, I mean, you have got the chronic patients, regular medications, those deliveries can happen. So as we said that currently, 220+ pharmacies are spread only in Karnataka, Kerala, and Telangana region. So we will be only expanding the pharmacies wherever the states or the cities where the hospitals are present and build an ecosystem. And as per that strategy, next, I think we are told that in six months' time, we already more or less finalized the app also. Our myAster is coming to India.
With that launching in, I think we will be able to really augment the revenue and the services which we are looking at in terms of the growth.
Yeah. I would like to add to what Sunil mentioned. See, the healthcare now can't be constrained to the hospitals alone. It has to need to take the healthcare steps of the patient for their convenience. And one is the convenience, and then this is the benefit it brings in terms of service availability and steps. Now, we have created these pharmacies and labs to address this requirement of the future. One. And also, at the same time, to increase the experience of the patient who comes to our hospital. Now, having said that, we deployed these pharmacies and labs in a very short period of time. Just a two-year period, we scaled up to 250.
We need to get it to the critical size so that the utility of that particular vertical is experienced by the patients. So having said that, when we deployed 250, 300 pharmacies and labs, some we got it perfectly right. Few we couldn't get it right because of the locations. And also, at the phase what we have grown, there are certain backend areas we need to tighten, which right now, we have started doing it and then also parallelly focusing on revenue enhancement. So as we speak now, that has been done in the lab. With the pharmacy, with the way the business is and the competition which prevails in the market, it might take some time for us to go there to break even. But we are committed to this model, and we are going to keep continuing focusing on this model to strengthen our integrated healthcare ecosystem.
Now, of course, later, we are going to use this model to leverage our digital app experience of a patient. This is basically conceived to give the patient experience and then make our model future-proof.
Okay. The INR 75-odd crores of revenues that you have for the segment, how would that break up between the two businesses?
They're a quarter.
Yeah. Harith, for example, we closed INR 74 crore for the labs and pharmacy and around INR 3 crore a bit of loss. So out of INR 74 crore, broadly, around INR 30 crore is what is coming from the labs and balances the wholesale pha rmacy.
Okay. And Sunil, one more accounting-related question. If you can share the Ind AS benefit that's there in the India P&L so that we can calculate the pre-Ind AS EBITDA for maybe the third quarter or the ninth month FY 2024 period.
Sure. See, broadly, when you talk about Ind AS benefit, there are two parts there. I'll give a very broad number on the yearly number. You can break it up into the quarters. See, Ind AS, the rent reversal what we get is approximately INR 65-INR 70 crores. That's a fixed rent which gets reversed because of the Ind AS benefit which we're getting it. At the same time, there is a variable fees also which is coming approximately on a yearly basis around INR 28-INR 30 crores. That doesn't get reversed. That's where we show and call out that separately.
Yeah. Understood. And the transaction, the divestment of GCC business, when do we expect the transaction to close? Any rough timelines that you can share?
Amitabh, you want to.
Sure. Thank you, Alisha. So, Harith, we're in the process of completing the CPs. Presently, we've made substantial progress on that. A couple of them are near completion. We expect this to sometime happen in the month of late February or early March.
Got it. That's all from my side. Thanks for taking my questions.
Thank you, Harith. We'd like to highlight that we'll be giving preference to attendees who have not asked a question before. So in that line, the next question is from Rishabh Tiwari.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Just to follow up on the Ind AS discussion, I see that in the quarter three in India part, I think the Ind AS impact is around INR 12 crore. In one of the calls earlier, it was mentioned that the quarterly impact is around INR 6 crore in India. If you could just throw some light on the current Ind AS impact that we have in GCC as well as India.
So I'll give the India numbers, Rishabh. As I told the previous caller also, it is somewhere fixed rent which gets the impact of the post-Ind AS 116 impact. That is approximately coming to INR 65-INR 70 crores because, see, Whitefield we added very recently, right? So the numbers kept changing. That's why I'm giving a yearly figure to you. Approximately INR 65-INR 70 crores is the rent reversal which we have. That is a fixed rent. Over and above that, we also have certain variable rent, specifically in certain O&M assets and specifically a bigger number which is coming from our CMI and RV Hospital. So that is on a yearly basis amounting to around INR 28-INR 30 crores.
That means around INR 100 crore of impact yearly in India?
Yes. Yes. Yes.
What would the similar number be for GCC?
So in GCC, for the YTD December, there's a rent reversal of almost AED 142 million. That's it. So we're there on AED terms. So close to INR 300 crores.
Okay. INR 300 crore for nine months?
Yeah.
Thanks. If you could also just give some color on the corporate cost that we incur in India, and how would that be impacted post the demerger of GCC business?
Rishabh, currently, the corporate cost what we incur is approximately 1.4%-1.5% on our top line. That is a number. And we already have a very full-fledged team currently, as the chairman has been always calling out. We have two different leadership teams for handling the GCC in India. So it's not that the cost is going to yes, there are certain roles that will come into the picture. Certain costs also will increase. But that will not be having too much impact. When I say currently, 1.4%-1.5% is with the complete leadership team, including the salaries and the other corporate-related costs. It's coming to 1.4%-1.5%. We see approximately another 20-30 basis points impact. That's it. So there is no major increase which is expected to happen with GCC segregation.
This is for India business, or was this for consortium?
This is for the India business which I'm calling out specifically.
Okay. Thanks.
Thank you, Rishabh. The next question is from Jainil Shah. Jainil, if you can unmute yourself.
Hello?
Yes, Jainil. Please.
Yeah. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on the payer mix. Can you give out the payer mix cluster-wise?
I hope you are asking for the India thing. See, across India, we have a payer mix wherein cash or walk-in patients, what we call, is coming to approximately 48%. And TPA insurance is approximately 27%-28%. And we have an MVT of 5.4%. And various state government schemes, then ESI, ECHS, CGHS, all put together, range is between 5%-6%. So that's a broad payer mix across India. But when you look at Kerala itself, the cash percentage is quite high. Approximately, we can take somewhere between 65%. Approximately, will be cash because North Kerala has got almost 80%+ cash. In Central Kerala, we have got only 60% cash. So that's where we still have majority cash there. And on balance, will be the TPAs. And specifically, in terms of MVT, Central Kerala does approximately 10% of the business as the MVT business.
In Bangalore, it's approximately 4%-5%. In case of Bangalore or the cluster, the payer mix will be something like 40% cash, and balance is credit.
Sure. Sure. That's helpful. And what is the pricing position and strategy going ahead in each of these clusters?
See, as I called out, still, we have almost 50%-60% cash. So we have that room to take the price increase. And what we also see in that is that post-COVID, the insurance ramp-up is quite high. At the same time, we don't have the burden of handling the large government schemes. As I said, it's only between 5%-6%. So keeping that in mind, even in terms of insurance, yes, you don't get every year increment. It's maybe two to three years based on the contracts what we have with different insurance providers. And every year, every two to three years, we get a good increment of anywhere between 8%-10% there.
At the same time, in the cash, we take the usual inflation which is expected to be somewhere between 8%-10% increase which you take on the cash patients. So that's where you can see that RPOB growth has been very consistent for the last five years. We're able to go at a consistent 9% RPOB growth. Even in the current nine months, when you compare to the previous FY 2023 nine-month period, December, it's a 9% RPOB growth which we had.
This 9% would be sustainable?
It's sustainable. 8%-9% is very much sustainable. And if you ask, in the current nine-month period, actually, RPOB growth is more than 12% considering the optimization initiatives which were taken on the revenue assurance. But that's not reflecting because of the lower RPOB from the O&M asset- light. Because O&M asset- light where we have in the Areek ode or a Kollam or a Mandya and Narayanadri Hospital which is in Tirupati, there, the RPOBs are just around 20,000. So that has got almost an INR 2,000-RPOB impact at the India level. So if we exclude that, we are at almost 10%. So we see that in the future, somewhere around 8%-9% is very much achieved.
Jainil, I would like to add here. See, there's a general perception that the insurance penetration increases per patient comes down, challenges the RPOB. But for us, what we have seen is because we are basically a quaternary care center, we focus on high-end cases like transplants, robotic surgery. The insurance penetration helps us in getting this category of patient, the affordability and accessibility of this patient improves with insurance, especially big-ticket procedures. So that is another reason which also contributes to the expansion of the RPOB, the growth of the RPOB numbers.
Makes sense. Makes sense. And just one more. Two years down the line or three years down the line, according to you, what would be the difference in the ROCs between your O&M asset- light model and O&M hospitals?
So currently, our O&M matured hospitals have an ROC of more than 30%, Jainil. But in case of the O&M asset- light projects, see, to reach 30%, it takes around five to six years from the start. But in case of O&M asset- lights, even in the first year, out of the four hospitals which we have in the O&M asset- light, two are already positive and broken even almost doing near 10% EBITDA margin. There, the ROCs are already doing double digits. I'm talking about somewhere between 10%-15% is the ROC already which we have. And going forward, we see already at the hospital level, we have a 21% ROC, and matured hospitals are already at 27%. And we see that across India, we have around 15% is the ROC, and that's going to expand into about 20% going forward.
Okay. And just one last, if I may. What would be the difference, your in-house business versus non-Aster business in your labs and pharmacies?
See, pharmacies are specifically we see, currently, the standalone pharmacies within the hospitals are already captured under the hospital revenue itself. So it's not outsourced to the pharmacy. So whatever the pharmacy revenue which we do, it's all non-Aster. But in case of the labs bit of it, 75% is the Aster, and 25% is the non-Aster.
Okay. That's helpful. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Jainil. The next question is from Pushpindu. Pushpindu, can you please unmute yourself?
Yeah. Can you hear me?
Yes, Pushpindu.
Yeah. I have a two-part question, mainly on the Indian business. See, currently, the Whitefield, Bangalore, and the New Age hospitals are not making profit. I mean, they are not contributing towards the bottom line. So how soon can these new hospitals start generating profit at the net level?
Yeah, Pushpindu. Pushpindu, Whitefield ramp-up has been quite good, as I already called out. We expected a higher cash burn. But from our budgets, we are looking at only less than 40% is what we are spending with the good clinical set of doctors what we have from the oncology to the neuro to plastic surgery. The ramp-up has been very fast. And we expect that the break-even or we will not start losing money within, I would say, 12 months period should be good enough here in Whitefield.
Sure. What would be the revenue guidance for the next year for the entire operation of India business? So for FY 2025, how should I look at the Indian business on a revenue front?
So Pushpindu, I think we generally try to not give any specific guidance. But I think we are on a pretty good trajectory of growth as well as EBITDA margin improvement. You can see the last few years how the business has ramped up. So I think we generally believe that we'll continue to be on the similar growth path, and the margin improvement is kind of likely to happen along with the growth happening. So that's how we would like to comment on this. Probably, Sunil, if you want to add anything, but I think we would stay away from giving any specific guidance.
Yeah. No, Hitesh, I think you're right in that aspect. Historically, we've grown at 20% CAGR in revenue and almost 30%+ EBITDA. We expect to have a very strong performance in a couple of years.
Why am I asking this question? Is that because Bangalore and the new age hospitals will keep on making losses? Then how are you planning to improve the profitability after incurring losses from these metro hospitals like Bangalore?
See, Pushpindu, if you look at the current losses what we are incurring, except for the Whitefield, there are no other major losses apart from the two O&M asset- light. Their losses are in few lakhs of INR, not even in crores. So first of all, O&M asset- light will not be a drag. Already, we have gone into positive margin in the quarter three with positive almost 4% EBITDA margin already achieved. So we don't expect a major drag because we are not adding many more beds in that particular category. So coming back to other than O&M, the drag is only from the Whitefield, which I said, it's not a major point. So that's where I was very confident in the previous comment which I made that we are looking at a very good expansion.
Already, we are at a 20.8% in this quarter and a 20.2% for a nine-month period in hospital and clinics segment. We expect at least another 300-400 points increase in the next two to three years' period.
Yeah. I think just to add on.
Yeah. Sorry. Go on. Go on.
I was just trying to add on to Sunil's point. This Whitefield, I think, is probably one of the fastest ramp-ups that we're seeing across our major hospitals. I think it has ramped up really well even in the first year of its operations. And I think the margins should be kind of coming to the Bangalore cluster margin very soon, in the next couple of months or probably a year or so. And if you look at the other places, especially in Kerala, the way we are adding the beds, it's mostly a large part of it is actually Brownfield there in Kerala.
So the kind of expansion like in Medcity and some other units which is going to happen will help us amortize a lot of fixed cost and help us improve the margins because we don't have to take that many more doctors or staff to kind of ramp up the new beds that we're going to add in those existing hospitals. So these are some of the initiatives. Plus, I think there's a lot of initiatives that are being taken up from the manpower cost optimization or the material cost is already kind of optimized dramatically. And Sunil and kind of team has been working a lot on the revenue assurance as well. So I think there are a couple of those initiatives that we are working on which is going to help us margin improvement from here on.
And so if I look at our peers which are available in Bangalore like Manipal or Apollo, so what are the revenue potential from these 2 A and B wings that we are operating now? What would be the revenue potential, suppose if a utilization level reaches too close to 60%-70% odd, just to get an idea how impactful the contribution would be from this hospital?
Yeah, Pushpindu.
Yeah.
Good, doctor. Good, doctor. No, no. The Whitefield Hospital is a 500-bed hospital. If you really look at the CMI numbers, we have an aspiration to achieve CMI numbers in the next three years. What CMI has done in seven years, we are looking at this hospital because of the clinical team we have, the location where we are, and the patient mix what is there. Because Whitefield is a very affluent area. If you really look at the competition there, they are also done well in that particular geography. Considering all these factors, clinical talent, infrastructure, the size of the hospital, and the location, we are expecting to do it in three to four years and what CMI has done in seven years.
Any revenue guidance that you want to give, Mr. Shetty?
Guidance is something. I'd like to stay. I've given you the exact numbers, aren't they?
Sure. Fine. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you, Pushpindu. We have Alankar back in the queue for the question. Alankar, please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity again. Just one bookkeeping question. If I look at the segmental results, the hospital PBT has increased significantly, I mean, both on a YoY as well as sequential basis. That doesn't seem to be in sync with the EBITDA growth in the overall hospitals business. So can you please help us understand what exactly has happened below the hospital EBITDA for the consolidated entity?
You're referring to the India segment, Alankar?
No, no. I'm referring to the segmental highlights in your results uploaded on the exchanges. So there, you classify the EBITDA across hospitals, clinics, retail pharmacies, and others. So if I look at the hospitals' EBITDA in this quarter, including India as well as GCC, that's about INR 355 crores. Now, that INR 355 crores compares to INR 193 crores in the same quarter last year and about INR 116 crores in 2Q FY 2024. So just trying to reconcile that number because the EBITDA growth year-over-year and QoQ doesn't seem to be so high.
Can we look at it and come back to you, Alankar? I think it must have to do with some of the larger losses in the GCC hospitals that recently opened up. But we'll have to make sure we do the reconciliation and reshare it with.
Sure. Sure. We can do that, Alisha. I'm just looking at the numbers, Alankar. So effectively, what you're saying is, as of 31st December 2022, the EBITDA was INR 193 crores, which is what has gone to INR 355 crores in FY on 31st December 2023. Is that what you're referring to, Alankar?
Yes. Yes. Yes. And even if.
Allow us to come back to it. It's a combination of India and GCC numbers. We'll come back with a clarification on this.
Okay. Okay. All right. Thanks.
Thank you, Alankar. We again have Sanjay Shah again on the question queue. Sanjay, if you can unmute yourself.
Thank you again. Alisha, my question is to you regarding the have management decided on any tax-saving method to distribute the fund which we receive from GCC other than dividend option?
So Sanjay, I think we had explored various options. We found that dividends was probably the most effective one. But I will also let Amitabh maybe comment a little bit more on this.
Sure. Thank you, Alisha. So Sanjay, as Alisha called out, we have gone through this extensive study to say what could be the most effective way to provide the upstreaming of funds to the shareholders. And the dividend came as the most tax-effective from both resident and non-resident because the individual tax positions come into the picture over there. While this is there, we also evaluated capital reduction. We evaluated shareholders' buyback. But the dividend came out as the most tax-effective from that perspective.
Right. Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Sanjay. We have Pushpindu's hand still raised. Pushpindu, you have another question?
No, no, no. I think the hand was raised earlier. Fine. Thank you.
Sure. If any of the other attendees would like to ask a question, please click on the raise hand icon. Okay. So I think there's no more questions to the management. Thank you all. This concludes the earnings call for this quarter for Aster DM Healthcare. I thank the management and all the attendees for joining us today. If you have any further queries or questions, please do get in touch with us. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you.