Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Adani Total Gas Limited Q4 and 12-month FY25 investor update call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on a touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Suresh Manglani, ED and CEO. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Let me extend a very hearty welcome to all our investors, analysts, and fund houses for taking out their time and participating in the earning conference call for full year FY2025 and also for the quarter for FY2025 of Adani Total Gas. At ATGL, like every quarter and for the full year, we have ensured supply of piped natural gas and compressed natural gas and the safe handling of operations and emergencies on a 24/7 basis in all our geographical areas. Now, we have 34 geographical areas, including recently added Jalandhar geographical area in Punjab. Our overriding business principle that safety has to be the precondition to work has laid down a strong foundation in building safe behavior and culture within ATGL.
All our employees and our partners working for us are being trained on a continuous basis to follow safe behavior in every action they take. We have continuous training on health and safety for our teams and partners so that our target of zero fatality is maintained. I am happy to inform you all that for the entire year 2024/2025 and the Q4, we have maintained the zero fatality as well as excellent HSE track record. Now, let me first give you the highlights on the CGD infrastructure development within ATGL as of 31st, March 2025. Our CNG station network has now increased to 647 stations, which includes 123 CNG stations on company-owned, dealer-operated CODO and dealer-owned, dealer-operated DODO format. We have added 100 new CNG stations in the financial year 2024/2025.
As we have been always emphasizing on building up our backbone steel infrastructure, I may inform you all that our steel pipeline infrastructure has now increased to 13,772 inch kilometers. During the year, we have added 1,750 inch kilometers of steel pipeline this year. On the PNG connection, ATGL added 142,301 domestic connections, the new PNG homes, in the year 2024/2025. It is now serving to over 963,000 domestic homes. We are almost now coming closer as a standalone company, closer to serving a million homes. Along with our JV, of course, we are already serving more than 1.1 million homes. Our industrial and commercial consumers, these are the businesses we convert them on piped natural gas. Now we have reached the number of 9,299. During this financial year, we added 968 consumers for the full year.
If I may give you some, on a thumb rule basis, numbers, on an average, we are adding 400 new PNG homes on a daily basis. We are adding three kilometers of steel and PE pipe on a daily basis. We are opening almost every third day a new CNG station. We are adding around three new businesses, industrial and commercial, we are connecting piped natural gas on a daily basis. If I give you another statistic, roughly last year, we have added five charge points on an EV e-mobility side on a daily basis. Let me now give you the update on our other businesses. As you all know, we have two wholly owned subsidiaries. One, Adani Total Energies E-Mobility Limited. This subsidiary deals with the e-mobility ecosystem. Currently, we are setting up EV charging stations.
ATIL, we call it in abbreviated form, has expanded its footprint now to 3,401. These are the installed charge point stations. Out of that, we have already opened to the public fully energized 2,338 EV charge points. We have spread it across 26 states, more than around 230 cities in India. ATIL is currently the number one airport charge point operator in the country with presence across 21 airports, both on inside and as well as outside the airport. Another subsidiary, Adani Total Energies Biomass Limited. You are all aware that ATBL has been working on setting up the Bharsana biogas plant, which is closer to Mathura in Uttar Pradesh. I am very happy to announce that now the plant is stabilizing. Today, on an average, roughly seven tons per day is the CBG production.
We also, because we are now manufacturing or producing the organic manure, have launched our new brand called Harith Amrit that is FOM, fermented organic manure, as well as phosphate-rich organic manure. Both organic manures will be branded under Harith Amrit and sold in the market. We already started dispatching organic manure now through this ATBL. Now, let me share with you the operational and financial numbers achieved by Adani Total Gas during this financial year 2024-2025. On the back of strong infrastructure momentum and operational performance, ATGL delivered a double-digit volume growth of 15% for the full year, wherein CNG volume grew by 19% year-on-year basis when I compare last year versus this year. This was primarily back of increase in the volume in our existing CNG station as well as rolling out the new CNG station.
Our volume growth for the full year on PNG side, which is PNG home, industrial consumer, and commercial consumer, grew by 7%. This is on account of rolling out the piped natural gas to the newer homes as well as industrial commercial consumers. Our overall volume grew by 13% for the Q4. Our overall volume grew by 13% in comparison to the Q4 of FY2024. This is on a year-on-year basis, 13%. Now, with respect to domestic gas allocation, you are all aware that domestic gas allocation as well as APM, as well as new well gas, which is what now we started getting, or the intervention natural gas, which comes from the same APM field for the CNG. The average domestic allocation for CNG for the full year was 61%. And for the Q4, the average allocation was 56%.
While PNG continues to get the full allocation of APM gas. For home PNG, we get the full allocation of APM. Recently, post the closure of financial year from 16th April, there was a reallocation of domestic gas for APM gas for CNG transport sector. There we are getting 37% as the APM allocation. The remaining we are getting from new well gas and combined is 65% APM as well as new well gas till 16th May. We may see some realignment of allocation of gas, primarily from the new well gas side. APM allocation is now at 37%. The shortfall in allocation has impacted profitability.
With better gas sourcing portfolio, along with the cost optimization initiatives, massive push on digitalization, operational excellence, and performance improvement plan, which we always do, a profitability improvement plan, we call it a PIP, ATGL, I'm happy to inform you all, has been able to navigate the impact which we were otherwise seeing on profitability to minimizing the impact for this quarter as well as the overall full year basis. Let me now share with you the financial performance of ATGL. Revenue from operations rose by 12% to INR 5,398 crore. EBITDA for the full year was INR 1,167 crore. This is up by 1%. Last year, the EBITDA was INR 1,150 crore. Profit before tax was INR 868 crore, and profit after tax was INR 648 crore. These are the full year numbers which I shared with you all. Now, let me share with you the Q4 numbers.
Revenue from operation for this quarter, January to March, grew by 15% to INR 1,448 crore. EBITDA for the quarter with the developments which I informed you all about the decline in the gas allocation, et cetera. The EBITDA declined by 10% to INR 274 crore. The profit before tax and profit after tax, this is on a year-on-year basis. Profit before tax and profit after tax declined by 12% and 10% to INR 198 crore and INR 149 crore. On a quarter-on-quarter basis, there is a slight increase on the EBITDA. In closing, I would like to say that we remain optimistic about growth drivers that shapes up India's energy transition journey and ATGL's commitment to play a leading role by providing affordable and reliable low-carbon energy solutions for homes, industrial and commercial consumers, and transport and mobility segment.
I would like to acknowledge and be thankful to all our shareholders, analysts, fund houses, consumers, dealers, suppliers, business partners, and above all, our employees for providing trust and continued support. We would be very happy to take the questions from you. I have with me Mr. Parag Parik, our CFO, Mr. Navindu Trivedi, who is our driving bio business technical service head, and Ravinder Desai, who has joined us now recently on the gas sourcing and business development, and Priyansh, IR head, Priyash Jhaveri, who is our financial controller, and along with other team members. Happy to take your questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two.
Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants to ask a question, you may press star and one. First question is from the line of Puneet from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you so much. My first question is on the sourcing mix. How are you thinking about increasing your sourcing of gas from sources outside of the APM? And is there a plan to do a long-term energy tariff as well?
Thank you, Puneet. Yes, I think as we are seeing now realignment of policy on APM allocation, but the good part is that CGD remains to be a part of a very strong vision of government of India as well as the state government.
We are seeing that the APM gas reduction is being offset significantly by priority on new well gas allocation. Now, new well gas allocation also has become part of a prorata allocation, which otherwise earlier used to be on the option basis allocation. We are being assured now that whatever volume we grow, we'll get the new well gas allocation, which is again a significant volume, as we stated, 37% versus we are now getting 65%. The third is government decision to also give priority to HPHT gas. The first priority remains on CNG and home PNG. These three sources, we see a significant support coming in terms of, of course, the average cost is going up, which, as we stated, we are trying to navigate, minimize, because our focus certainly is growth.
Focus is ensuring that we maintain affordability of a price, good saving for a consumer to still opt for a CNG. Having said that, of course, as the company which has 34 geographical areas, 95 districts, we have this responsibility to service for a pretty long time on both PNG and CNG side. We are looking forward always the opportunities to not only source gas on short-term and mid-term as well as on the longer-term basis to make sure that we remain, we develop, prepare ourselves very well on the portfolio which we build to mitigate the downfall, which decline, which is happening on APM side.
The weighted average cost is still we make in a manner that we are able to provide both PNG and CNG to our homes and transport consumers, but also our main anchor customer industry and commercial for all four together will bring the volume. We are building, Puneet, as you stated, we are building a portfolio. We are having a strategy in place to make sure that we build our portfolio on longer-term, mid-term, and short-term, and we will be considering all these plus. We will have some portion keeping open, very small portion open for the spot buying as well. It will be a good mix which we'll be doing it. You have seen our track record that despite such a serious decline in 37%, our profitability track record is in front of you all.
I think that we'll try our best that we maintain the good portfolio on the gas sourcing side.
You said 68% is APM plus new well gas. Balance 32%, is it possible to get a breakup between HPHT and LNG?
Yeah, yeah. We'll give it to you. 65% what we get is today from applied owners. This is what I stated. We are getting
15th of May, you said.
We are getting 37 plus remaining new well gas till 15th of May. That's what the current notification is. It may get realigned upward, downward. That will come to have a clarity. HPHT is how much? Entire volume. Entire volume of remaining 35% we have been able to secure through HPHT. 100% is being met through APM, new well gas, as well as HPHT volume. Good question, Puneet. Thank you.
Second is if you can talk a bit about the e-mobility business. Now you have almost 2,400 installed and 2,300+ energized. What kind of utilization rates are you seeing there? What is the unit economics there? Also, what is the revenue contribution and EBITDA, if at all, from this business?
Very good question, Puneet, actually. This is the one business driver we decided both on sustainable fuel side, e-mobility, and the CBG side. CBG is coming up in the one-plant bio on the Bharsana side. You will see our further growth on the CBG side as well. On e-mobility side, yes. We have been continuously growing on, as I said, last year itself, we have set up five EV charge points every day. I am very happy to say that it is an EBITDA positive business today for us. Utilization, the two, three segment.
One is we have committed segment where we have minimum guaranteed monthly charges for many fleet operators we do it. So that is fully assured on the returns basis. It's a very good utilization which is coming. Second is we set up on B2B basis. Again, reasonably a good utilization is happening. Airport, of course, we are 21 airports. We are the only charge point operator as per the Airport Authority of India. They do the very competitive bids, and we have won all those bidding. We are having a very high utilization there. As the intensification is increasing at airport, we are getting benefit of that part. On the B2C side, current utilization is relatively very low. Some places it could be around 3%, some places 1.5%-2%, and some places maybe 5%, or on an average 2.5%-3% kind of a thing.
Of course, we can see the exact numbers, but my friend says around 2.5%-3% or less. 1.5%-2%. 1.5%-2% on the B2C side. Remember, I think we are very optimistic on the policy front development which is happening on the EV side. We are not building for today EV charging points. You see, we are trying to make sure that all strategic location, whether on B2C side, whether B2B side, or tourist places, we should build for the future. We are very optimistic that given the e-mobility business ecosystem is getting developed, utilization significantly will go on B2C side. Overall, on a net basis, we have EBITDA positive business.
How much have you invested so far in this?
Today, I think, Puneet, we are still feeding these businesses. We are relatively very low.
Today, at this juncture, we would have invested a little over INR 100 crore. That is really the investment as far as the EV business is concerned. As we just mentioned, I think it is still early stage. The idea is to seed the ecosystem. Likewise, how we were doing it on the CNG side, when you are getting into a newer geography, you are building the ecosystem of CNG stations across our geographical areas. Similarly, the current intent is to seed the EV ecosystem. At the same hand, at least keep an eye to ensure that we continue to remain EBITDA positive. It is a mixture of both B2B, B2C, and intent would be to continue to build that momentum over the coming year.
Lastly, just two things. One is, is it possible to tell what is the investment plan for current year?
What is the breakup of this 3,400 charge points between B2B, B2C, and the other part?
Yes. As far as investments are concerned, we will continue to have a similar momentum. We would continue to invest about INR 70 core-80 crore as far as the coming year is concerned. INR 100 crore-110 crore, what I mentioned is cumulative. We started about 17 months-18 months back, really, in terms of the EV business. The intent is to look at around INR 70 crore-80 crore as far as the coming year is concerned. As far as charging stations, as we said, 2,300+ already operationalized. The others are closer towards operations or close to another 1,000 charging points. We would want to build similarly a capability of building almost close to around 1,500-2,000 over the next year, including the ones which are in the commissioning phase.
That's, as I said, as far as the investment and as far as the charging stations are concerned. You had one more question. Am I correct, Puneet?
Yeah, the breakup between the B2B and B2C.
Breakup, as I said, is slightly, I would say, the B2B, B2C breakup is slightly different at this juncture because one is a core dedicated B2B stations, but the emerging model is usually getting a minimum guaranteed usage on some of the more public retail charging stations. One may not be able to break it up into B2B, B2C, but all will boil down to the locations. As we said, now, for example, we have one of the largest charging airport point operator. We have now close to 21 airports. These are both on the air side as well as on the outside.
Now, air side, for example, there is no minimum guaranteed, but the fact that you are on the air side itself allows you to have a dedicated usage. Same way, when you're looking at outside the airports, it allows a better usage because the Ubers and the Olas do not have to pay car parking charges if they were to charge. There are nuances around this. Not exactly, I will say, B2B, B2C in its own strict sense. Even in our normal public retail charging stations, we try and work towards getting some minimum guaranteed usage on some of the stations, which allows us to keep, as I said, the EBITDA levels positive.
Understood. That's very helpful. Thank you so much and all the best.
Thank you, Puneet. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Yogesh Patil from Dollar Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for an opportunity, sir. Sir, as you mentioned, the clarity on APM allocation is till 16th May, and further clarity will emerge later. As per our reading of government circular, it suggests that CGDs will have clarity on APM allocation two quarters prior. Can you give us some clarity how this APM allocation will work going forward?
Yogesh, first of all, thank you for being a consistent participant for our investor call. I look forward that we will do the same thing in the future. I think you saw the recent notification which has been published by the Government of India that going forward, they would be giving clarity to us. Today, it's a quarterly clarity, which I stated to you that is a 37% which has been allocated to us now.
If we achieve a better growth, which we maybe will get a little better also, that two-quarter clarity, now we'll be able to see that this will be implemented now. Currently, we are clear that for us, 37% is the APM allocation. Till 15th May, new well gas allocation is extremely good. Combined, it's 65%. We need to certainly, Yogesh, wait for the clarity which we receive on a two-quarter basis once it is implemented.
Okay. Thanks. Thanks, sir. Second question is related to your volume growth guidance for the next year. We have reported closer to 3 MMSCMD volume in Q4. If you could provide some volume guidance for the next one- to- two years in terms of the CNG and the PNG, that would be helpful.
Yogesh, again, very good and penetrated questions you are asking.
Our exact volume is almost closer to 3 million now. The March 31st, we closed with roughly 2.93 or 2.95. 2.93, I think. That is very close to 3 million. We, of course, wish that we should have gone across 3 million. You understand the CGD sector. You are following it very well. We hope that this will happen. On the guidance, as we stated in the past also, we have been maintaining largely a double-digit volume growth. Given our trajectory of new geographical areas, particularly now 11th round, which are going to be connected with the transmission pipeline, expected in this financial year by December or so, we are expecting. Intensification of Jalandhar geographical area, which we recently got. We have started laying our pipelines, setting up CNG station.
We hope to give you a similar track record of maintaining double-digit volume growth in the future as well.
I think, Yogesh, pertinent point is Q4, our exit volume is 2.93. Annualized is 2.72. I think that itself will give you a directional comfort and a view on how we are seeing the volume trajectory. Yeah. Yes, Yogesh.
Yeah. Sir, CNG vehicle additions in your geographical area during FY2025, any ballpark numbers if you are started tracking on your geographical area side, it would be helpful.
Yogesh, actually, if you see even the OEMs' numbers, ultimately, what has happened, Yogesh, the whole CGD ecosystem has now shifted from localization to universalization.
What used to be the phenomena that CNG used to be a local fuel of a particular city or a town, now the way vehicles have grown over the last couple of years, it has become like a transition volume is also coming up as a significant. I'll give you an example of Udaipur, for example. Local number of vehicles will be very limited. Of course, the ecosystem is getting developed. More of the tourist vehicle will be there because city being smaller, people may be transiting with lesser kilometers per day. Two-wheeler is better there. The tourist vehicle which comes to Udaipur or pass via Udaipur to Nathdwara, etc., volume is very, very good. I think we are now looking at how India is transiting on ecosystem on CNG.
The good part is you are able to see that even the last quarter, the number of CNG vehicles sold were higher than the diesel vehicles. We are still, and when we talk to OEMs like Maruti Suzuki, they appear to be still very bullish. They are having a very good record, this order booking, almost 25%-30% between. I do not have the exact number, but I think I am getting the sense that it is around 25%-30% of the quarter sale is the CNG vehicles. It is giving us a good sense that the key is that how do we keep growing and developing ecosystem and maintain the affordability for the country?
Okay. Sir, I am just again going back to my question number one, APM allocation.
Touching to again it, is that a correct understanding that more clarity will take time or it will emerge for the two-quarter prior allocation clarification? It will take a little bit more time for you as?
No, sorry, Yogesh, please complete. Sorry.
My question is again on the APM allocation side, is that a correct understanding that more clarity on this APM allocation where you will get a clarity that two quarters prior, you will have an idea of what quantity of gas you will receive? It will take time to get more clarity on that side, or this is applicable and you have clarity of next two quarters, you will get that much of quantity of gas?
Yogesh, a couple of things.
One, there is now clarity that government has decided that CGDs, because it is a part of their strong vision, they would like to see the way we all want to see as an investor to grow this CGD business or CGD ecosystem in the country. The clarity is now given by the government very clearly with the notification which we issued that CGD companies will have clarity on APM allocation two quarters in advance. That way we could make our plan of procuring gas either from a spot market or from auctions or from various other sources. I think this policy decision is very helpful, and we must appreciate that government is giving continuous support and clarity. Second is, I think now it is a part of an implementation. It could happen anytime.
I don't think we should say long time or some more time. Clarity has just come. Decision has just come. Since we have clarity on this quarter, 37% is already being given. That quarter is still continuing, April, May, June. I think this quarter is still there at 37%, and the remaining is the new well gas. I think prior to the next quarter, we certainly will have clarity, and sooner, I think it will happen on the implementation side. As we stated to you, let's just see how overall ecosystem is playing. We have APM gas 37%. We combined with new well gas becomes 65%, and the rest of the 35% has come from HPHT. Overall, if you see, it has still moderated our cost because government has given priority on new well gas. Government has given priority on HPHT gas.
We believe, since this is the part of priority of our government, we will continuously be getting support in one or other way to make sure that our portfolio cost remains moderated.
Okay. Sir, last question. In your presentation, you provided details on the gas sourcing breakup. Just one question on that side. 22%-25% of RLNG gas is coming from the multiple linkages or multiple sources. Can you give us some idea in terms of how much portion is coming from the crude link and how much portion is Henry Hub link for this RLNG part?
Yeah. I will just go ahead. Yogesh, definitely, we will give you the clarity.
Just to give you, while my team is taking all the details to give you, basically, this is largely our focus is to build, as I said, and you have seen our track record on the portfolio part. We definitely have 25%. We have Henry Hub. We have Brent. As well as we may, Swamy, anything else you have? Wim Lind. Wim Lind. Yeah. West India Market. West India Market Lind.
Can you just give him a breakup?
If we talk of, see, Swamy, the, if we talk of the different indices, we can say around 22%-25% is oil linked. A similar percentage would be around 20% would be Henry Hub linked. A minimum percentage on the Wim Lind, West India Market linked. Overall, 25% you have. Yeah.
Of that, you are saying 20%?
Yes.
And 25% Henry Hub?
Henry Hub.
Wim Lind?
Wim Lind. Remaining 5% around Wim Lind. Overall, from the total value, 20% will be Brent linked, 20% will be Henry Hub linked, and the balance 5% will be West India Market linked. Okay. Okay. That was really helpful, sir.
Thank you. Good. I'll come back. Thank you. Please come back. No problem. Thank you.
Thank you. Before we move to the next question, a reminder to the participants to ask a question. You may press star and one. Next question is from the line of Vartharajan Shivasankaran from Antique Limited. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Sir, one point in time, there was a discussion about potentially some relief on the excise duty front or possibly some kind of any other scope for relief for CGDs.
Are those discussions now not happening, or do we see any scope for those kind of discussions happening and any kind of result in the near future?
Vartharajan, as long as we run the business, we continue to do advocacy as an entity, as the CGD as a sector, through CII, through SOCHM, through Chamber of Commerce, as well as we see even MOPNG also supporting. I think advocacy on multiple fronts continues, as any investors would be looking forward for the improvement in the performance. More important here, as an Adani Group, you know that our main focus is affordability for the consumer. Even the APM prices, when it has gone down, you have seen our calibrated approach of passing through very, very moderately. Coming back to your question on excise duty, of course, this advocacy has been there on the forefront from our side.
We have been requesting government, and we have been expecting that this would happen sooner than later, similarly on the GST side. We see from all sides support coming. Finally, we need to see there would be certainly some consideration at the government level on the revenue side, etc. Today, we are passing through, passing on the excise duty impact of 14% to the consumer. We hope once our voice is heard, excise duty is exempted or moderated down, GST comes on natural gas. This will really significantly bring a very, very different perspective for the CGD or as a gas sector as a whole, actually.
Fair enough, sir. The other question was about this. As an analyst, we tried to assess what is effectively the decline in the APM volume on the part of the producer.
Accordingly, what is effectively the cut actually implemented on the CGD sector? This last cut has left us a little baffled. Is it an annual kind of a volume we are looking at, or is it more like a six-monthly kind of a number? I am sure, just to get your feedback on it, does it look like a six-monthly thing or an annual number to look at?
No, I think, Vartharajan, one thing we should take while you and all of us, we felt that 37% is now a very lower side allocation. Immediately, we saw support coming significantly on the new well gas side. I think we need to see in a calibrated manner. This is the one nominated field which has been depleting for a very long time. We were expecting that this may continue.
The higher allocation may continue a little longer time. When we saw that this allocation APM is coming down, at the same time, support came on the new well gas side. Third, immediately, support came on HPHT side. Also, government made sure that if anybody is taking HPHT higher than what it requires, that the resale will be only on a market margin basis. Just see the kind of a policy support which government has put in place that you get APM lower, but it's still $6.75 today. You get new well gas, 12% Indian crude basket. You get HPHT gas, again, a controlled price, the way it is worked out, combined with the coal, naphtha, etc. On HPHT restriction, if you resale, you sell only on a marketing margin.
I think combined reading of this should all give you a sense that there is a support which is there for a CGD sector. There is a collaborative effort of investors, sector as a whole, as well as the authorities of government that we must grow this collaboratively. I think we are seeing that happening. We are working always as advocacy. Advocacy we are doing it that it should come more and more in APM. Let's see. As government has now notified that this will be two-quarter in advance, I think you will have a good visibility. We will have a good visibility on APM. We hope combined with the new well gas is still, and government has written in the same notification, around 54%-55% allocation should continue. That is also a clarity from government side. They have maintained above 50%.
Hopefully, they will maintain it. We, of course, hope that it will go up and up as a business house, as an investor. I think we need to wait for the clarity which comes from on the two-quarter in advance clarity.
On the new well gas allocation, my understanding is that it is 125% of the deallocated APM volume. Once again, was this a one-off kind of a thing you expect, or do you expect this trend to continue? Obviously, it's a function of the production growth from the APM fields by when you see. There has been some visibility given on that.
See, one other thing which government has now done is that they have said new well gas, earlier, it used to be given on an auction basis. It means we were not knowing whether we'll get it or not.
We didn't know who will be able to secure the new well gas, actually. Today, government has now stated that now new well gas also, like an APM, there will be an allocation process. That has brought a huge clarity that now if we sell more, we push volume growth, we are assured to get APM allocated on a per-order basis. We will be getting new well gas on a per-order basis. That is very good. Second, investment by ONGC is continuing on new well gas. It will depend upon how much more new well gas has been able to recover or be explored. We hope this will keep growing while APM field is depleting. Our ratio of above 50%-55% or more will be maintained by the government.
That is useful. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Next question is from the line of Kirtan Mehta from BNP Paribas. Please proceed.
Thank you, sir, for this opportunity. One question on the volume side. Would you be able to give us a broad breakup of the CNG volumes in terms of the different categories of vehicle like cars, three-wheelers, taxis, commercial vehicles, LCVs, and buses?
Kirtan, first of all, I think, like Yogesh, I have been always hearing your sweet voice every time in an investor call. Thank you very much for taking out time and participating consistently. I hope you will continue to do the same. I think the question is very good on the breakup side.
I don't know what purpose it would serve you, but largely, two-wheeler is not on the CNG, except recently launched Bajaj Freedom Bike that is still picking up a very small proportion because it anyway takes very small gas. Largely, it is public transport, four-wheeler. We also see, Ravinder, you would like to give him more details?
Why don't you give him? Yeah. If we look at segment-wise growth, on an India basis, around 26.4% is the growth for autos. If you look at HPV, it is 0.1% growth. MPV, around 0.3%. MMV, 46.6%. LGV, 6.5%. LPV, 15.1%. LGV, 0.5%. Two-wheeler, 4% growth. LGV, 0.2% growth on an India-France basis. This is the share of CNG vehicles of the total CNG sources. I think, Kirtan bhai, actually, we can definitely provide you more penetrated details as it is available in the public domain.
At the station-wise, we are across all the stations in the country or our geographical area, we are not capturing a type of vehicle-wise. We may actually do the interpretation on how much is the per fill, and we make some that. So that kind of analysis we could do. I think there are public sources available as Ravinder was reading to you. Suffice to say that four-wheeler definitely is consistently growing. Now we are seeing the segment on the diesel side, the 407, etc., small trucks. They are also significantly taking on CNG side. The growth is coming up from that side. Right, sir. This is useful. One more question was on the e-mobility side. You talked about around 20. We are covering 21 airports where we have the chargers available. What is the average utilization rate there?
How do we see utilization developing over one or two years, particularly at the airport chargers?
Yeah. I think, firstly, these airports have been awarded to us. Some of them, we are yet to install commission as far as our charge points are concerned. Having said that, some of the existing ones which are already in operations are giving us good utilization. Like I said, there are two sort of utilization. One is which is on the air side, and one is on the outside. On the outside, we do see utilization to be better compared to a pure public retail charging station, simply from the fact that it has a locational advantage. We have seen a pure B2C sort of utilization at around 1.5%-2%, whilst the more sort of concentrated utilizations have even gone and crossed double digits.
It is a very wide variety, actually, of the utilization that we have seen between pure public retail charge points to some which are more concentrated in terms of locations. Going forward, like I said, we do see pickup both in terms of the EV mobility space, and therefore, the utilization of these charging points going up. We do see at both the sides the utilization going up. It will take a little while, if I may say, but our intention is to continue to ensure that this 1.5%-2% keeps getting pushed up on a year-on-year basis.
Right, sir. One last question, probably on the LNG, long-haul LNG. Would you be able to update in terms of where are we and how do we plan to develop it over the next couple of years?
I think, Kirtan bhai, again, LNG for transport, as we call it LTM, LNG for transport and mining. Again, we are seeing policies part getting developed. We have already started setting up LNG stations. We have now two stations, and some more are under construction. One in Tirupur is operational. One in Dahej is coming up very shortly. Many other places, our stations are under construction at various stages right now. We have also taken a view that wherever we are setting up LCNG plant, a small LNG plant for feeding the CGD volume, even there, depending upon how close we are with the market or the highways, we would set up the LNG station. What we are now looking at is that some sort of a policy development on LNG for transport and mining side.
On the other side, our business development team is working with a lot of transporters and associations to see the interest. Depending upon when we get this clarity, we will further boost the investment on the LTM side. Currently, we are continuously working. Currently, we are actually developing some of these good location LNG stations also.
Right. In Tirupur, what would be the current throughput? Current throughput will not be very high. I think it must be around 1,500 kg-2,000 kg per day, 1.5 tons-2 tons per day. Right? Yeah. In that same area. We are expecting about 3.5-4 tons because it is an ecosystem development. As you must have seen since you follow this sector very intensively, when we started new geographical areas, there was no volume. Now, today, you see the proportion of volume in our basket is very good.
I think the same thing will happen in LNG. It's chicken and egg, whether on e-mobility side, CBG station side, LNG station side, that who blinks the first. I think, as an investor, we are investing, and we are now continuously developing the market on that side. We hope very soon it will be 3.5 tons-4 tons because we are seeing a lot of interest coming from the truck operators or the long-haul vehicles operators.
Sure, sir. Just probably one more question, if I can add, in terms of sort of the how do you think about the consolidation in the sector with so many players operating? At what stage can we see consolidation coming up in the CGD sector? I think you are seeing the volatility of the sector.
Any sector volatility on things like APM could emerge as possibilities as far as consolidation of the sector is concerned. I would say a lot will depend on how APM as one area unfolds. Adani Total Gas Limited has been a more fuel operator across different fuels. We are talking about LNG, EV, CBG, CNG, while some players may be pure CGD players. We do see some of that therefore turning out into opportunities. I would say, as far as consolidation is concerned, slightly away. I would say good about 18 months-24 months minimum before we see some consolidation. In a two- to four-year space, you may see some consolidation in the sector.
Thank you, sir, for sharing your details. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Harsh Raj Agarwal from Yes Securities. Please proceed.
Hello. Hi, sir.
Thank you for taking my question. I have a few questions. First is, sir, could you help us with the volume breakup of the PNG segment in the quarter and for the year?
Sure. I think if you were to go by the quarter breakup, about two-thirds, as we said, is really constituting CNG. Within the other one-third, or if I were to look at from an absolute overall number, close to about 20%-22% is on the industrial side. It's about 3%-4% is on the commercial side, and the balance 8% is on the domestic. That's really the breakup as far as the volume of the PNG is concerned. It is similar, if I were to say, if you were to look at it from an annual basis to a quarter basis.
In the meanwhile, one of the interesting developments has been in terms of contribution of the newer geographies over the existing geographies. Newer geographies used to contribute about 27%. Now they are almost a third of the overall contribution of volume.
Okay. Sir, apart from this, now we are seeing the propane prices correcting. Obviously, how do you see the growth happening from the industrial segment? Yeah, definitely. With the softer crude prices, there is some correction in the propane prices. You might also see that the different indices are also varying accordingly. We have seen that the Henry Hub prices have rolled back from around $4 to around $3 recently. The diversification has probably helped us to average out the prices and compete with the alternate fuels like propane and oil.
You see, these cyclic changes we have seen in the past.
We have been a long-term player, and we will be a long-term player. That's the reason I have been emphasizing that as a prudent operator, where customers are expecting some stability of the prices, and they want us to be as current as possible. That's where the responsibility is on us to build a good portfolio with the various diversified indices. When you said propane is coming down, Brent also is coming down. We have good Brent contracts. We are also prudent to see how do we build our future portfolio to take these kind of cyclic pressures. I think we'll be able to still build our volume on INC side. In fact, our priority is on building INC volume now significantly.
Sir, one further question on this in terms of the gas pricing.
Do you think that the long-term prices, which is crudely linked to Henry Hub linked, would be cheaper than the spot LNG, or do you see the spot LNG falling to a larger extent? Given the scenario in the last couple of years, the spot LNG has been on the higher side. We have the long-term contracts in place which is cheaper than the spot LNG. How do you see that scenario changing, or what is your view on that?
I wish I could predict these things, actually. Having said that, I think spot plays with the events which are happening. Some event here and there happening internationally on Swedish Canal or any other thing, geopolitical. Suddenly, you see spot playing its own play. We have seen that part.
That is the reason when I stated in the beginning, we said, "Why will we build significant or a majority of would be our short-term, midterm, and long-term contracting part?" Some portion will keep on a spot so that we can exploit our spot if the market is cheaper. Our view is that as we are looking at the market currently, from 2027, 2028 onwards, the market is moderating down in the prices. From that point of view, 2032 kind of a thing, we are seeing there is a supply side excess happening, and that we could always seize the opportunity. Beyond that, again, we see some sort of a demand growing. That is the kind of a thing we can suggest. Henry Hub forward curve, of course, today, if you look at it, it looks like a bit of a growing higher.
Our expectation is that it will moderate down in the future. Brent is the way it is playing since it is a multi-country, multi-sites issue. We believe it will play in the range-bound price range.
Okay. Sir, last question I have is on the CapEx. If you could help us, the target for FY 2026, and where are we going to meet with these vendors?
I think as far as CapEx is concerned, we will continue to look at CapEx, which allows us to generate, commercialize, and monetize our assets. That is where our focus will be as far as the rollout of CapEx is concerned. As you may be aware, we have mentioned it earlier in the past, some of the newer geographies that are awarded to us are yet to get the national grid connectivity.
Therefore, we will do a measured CapEx as far as the newer 11th round geographies are concerned, and selectively continue to monetize on the 9th, 10th round of the geographies that were awarded. As a number, we did a CapEx this year of close to about INR 900 crore. Next year, we will continue to do similarly in that range. Thank you. That is all, sir, from my side.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Somaya V. from Avendus Park Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Thanks for taking my question, sir. Sir, first question is on the newer GAs. Just wanted to understand this allocation of APM and newer gas. Is there any differential treatment for newer GAs as things are kind of really starting up with an established GA?
Within an inflection point, we get a higher allocation, and then it kind of comes down, or is it the same whether it's a new or an established GA?
Somaya, actually, the way you see the clarity is that now newer gas would be given on an allocation basis, not an auction basis. Depending upon how much newer gas is going to be produced and what is the kind of a volume growth each CGD comes up, depending upon that, the prorata allocation will happen. This time, while the APM declined to 37%, the offset was done through newer gas allocation. Of course, you know the differential is that APM, we have fixed price now from 1st April. It is $6.75 per MMBTU, whereas newer gas will vary depending upon the crude prices. India crude basket, ICB, 12% on a monthly basis.
Depending upon how the ICB will keep behaving, our prices will vary, but it still remains a moderated one. That is what would happen. More newer gas coming up, more allocation will happen. Tomorrow, if that production is a little lesser or allocation is not the lesser, then we get lesser allocation. Currently, it looks like we will be able to get a good offset from the newer gas. There is an HPHT, which comes under, again, there is a priority. First priority of HPHT is on a CNG and home PNG, and then only it can be sold to other sectors. Again, we are ring-fenced there also that if APM is down, newer gas, newer gas is down, we get HPHT gas.
Got it, sir. Sir, I was just trying to understand this. Let's say it's 37% of the APM allocation.
Whether we do it in our established GA or, for example, Jalandhar that we are starting, it will be that 37% is fixed for both. It is not that something that we are starting because we lack a bit of an operational leverage or something. You get a bit of support in the initial period, a higher allocation, and later it kind of goes down.
This is a good question you asked, actually. I should have clarified in the beginning, and I'm sorry that there may be some sort of a confusion, but let me clarify. Another weak of this policy, which was there since beginning, the initial GAs, when you start the development like Jalandhar we started or any other company starting new GA, you get the full support up to 6,000 MMBTU. There is no allocation.
You get first priority. SCM. Sorry, 6,000 SCM, not MMBTU, sorry. 6,000 SCM is a good amount to allow the GA to run on a full APM. If it goes beyond 6,000 SCM, then you come into the allocation process. Barring that part, if your geographical areas are below 6,000, they get a full 100% allocation. Once you are out of this threshold, you come under the normal prorata allocation. Depending upon how much growth you bring, you get a volume. Let's say today 37%. Next quarter, when it starts, everybody will sum up to the government how much has been the sales of a CGD and how much each CGD has done it, and then how much is available on APM. They will allocate per databases.
It could be 37, it could be more, it could be less, depending upon how the sector will perform. There is an offset. Similar allocation is now going to happen on newer gas. There is no 6,000 here because 6,000 will be supported by APM. I hope I clarified that. Other than that, there is no other differentiation that newer GAs, which are virgin, which are coming up, 6,000 SEMD, full up to that 100% allocation. Beyond that, prorata allocation as any other GA happens across the country.
This is not a new regulation. This has always been in existence in the past.
I hope it clarifies to you, Somaya.
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It does. It does. Thank you. Sir, second question is on the newer GAs.
I mean, in general, what would be the capex that would be required to develop a GA? I understand it is different depending on what is the potential population density, square kilometers that you are addressing. Everything would be different. Let's say a 0.3, 0.4 MMBTU potential target GA. What is the capex entailment to get it to that level? That is one. Second, what is the kind of return expectations given where things are today in terms of margins for, let's say, a new entrant or someone who wants to develop a new GA?
Somaya, again, while we could guess in a generic way that what should be the capex for 0.3, unfortunately, the way geographical areas are now spreaded, if you see, we have in Ahmedabad where we are sitting, we have Mumbai.
Those are the towns which used to be originally the city gas distribution. Today, a geographical area has four districts, five districts, six districts spread at 20,000 sq km. Bringing 0.3 there could be very easy as well as very difficult. There could be one very industrial good park, and suddenly you get 0.5 million. You have a Morbi example. In one place, you get a seven million volume. What is the investment? Very small. Tomorrow, we will be supplying in Mundra, for example. Guys, what is the investment? I think difficult to give you generically this answer that how much would be the investment for a 0.3.
Suffice would be to say that if you see our track record, every CGD, every prudent investor would invest calibratedly, initial some money, INR 50 crore, INR 60 crore, INR 70 crore, maybe depending upon how far is the connectivity transmission pipeline. They will invest in the initial investment to start and launch the geographical area. Thereafter, you calibrate your investment. You start investing as you start growing the market. You have seen our track record that all newer geographical area investment has been calibrated. Volumes have been growing. Many geographical areas now more than 0.1. They are crossing. They will be now coming closer to 0.15. That is the way ecosystem happens in CGD. You can see if you have been tracking this sector, all geographical area, whether originally you take from Gujarat, Maharashtra, and Nidhar, all have grown that way. It is an ecosystem development. It takes some time to build.
Once you build, it goes on sustainably.
Got it, sir. Sir, one clarification on the HPHT part. You said one third is HPHT. These are contracts, medium-term contracts. They end up and they come up for renewal. Just want to understand on that.
Yeah. HPHT contract, originally, the way it used to happen, they used to, and depending upon the operator as well, right? Largely, it is coming from Reliance BP Field currently. It used to be put on the auction site. Every CGD, depending upon how much is the portfolio bid and how much is the gap, used to bid for the volume for CNG and home PNG. This is our case. I am not telling you as a policy. Our case is for currently, the gap is being filled through HPHT.
As you rightly said, if there is a contract which expires, the gap may come shorter. It may be sort of 35% may come down. What has happened, new phenomena, that almost all HPHT gas now, which is waiting to produce, other than what has been supplied under the original contracts to all the CGDs, remaining is coming on the Indian Gas Exchange, IGX. Again, there IGX is also the same thing. First priority is for CGDs to bid on IGX like on a spot market. We will get the same HPHT prices. If there is a residual gas available, anybody can bid and take away. That is the way there. Do not take it in the sense that one third is for everybody, HPHT. This is current situation scenario of ATGL that 1/3 gap is being bridged through HPHT. Understood, sir.
Just wanted to check if I got this right. In case if there is a term contract for us that is ending, because CGDs get a priority, there is not much of a risk. If we choose to continue with HPHT, we can get that quantity. That is the direction.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Originally, when we signed the five-year contracts, for example, that was also to be bidded by the CGD entity. Somebody bid it for five years. Somebody, we have bid for three years or some other year. Whatever contract we have signed, that is getting honored by the respective operator and by us as well.
Understood. Thanks for the answer. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next follow-up question is from the line of Yogesh Patil from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks a lot, sir, for taking my question again.
Sir, we need some data points on the industry level. What is the total APM and NWG allocation to CGD industry? If you could provide us breakup in terms of CNG and the PNG domestic side, it would be helpful.
Yogesh, one thing is that I was expecting that you will definitely ask supplementary question, and you asked it. Very good. I think that shows us how much interest you are taking in the CGD sector. Parag, would you like to give him a breakup?
I think on an industry-wide breakup, just hold on. I'll just calibrate the numbers. Overall, Yogesh, overall, industry is about close to 27. Out of the 27, close to half, about 13, 12 and a half, 13 MMSTMD is on APM. NWG constitutes another close to 4 million.
Okay. Sir, one more question, policy-related.
Is it mandatory for biogas producer to sell that biogas to CNG only or CNG consumers or CNG station? Or the same molecule can be sold to the PNG industrial commercial customers?
No, CBG, it is outside authorization of a CGD. It governs under biofuel policy. MOPNG has been encouraging and promoting development of a CBG in India. If, let's say, a producer or a developer brings the CBG on the plant, it has complete freedom. It has complete freedom to sell through its own CBG station, give it to the CBG nodal agencies like GAIL and other oil marketing companies, or supply to industrial and commercial consumers. There is complete freedom on CBG side.
Okay. Thank you a lot, sir. That was really helpful. Thank you, Yogesh.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for the day.
I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Priyansh for the closing comments.
Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for participating on the call. I would also like to thank the management who have shared the insights of the company. In case of any further additional questions, please do write to us. Thank you. Have a great day. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Adani Total Gas Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.