Q4 25/26

Apr 28, 2026

Summary

FY26 WPI grew 19% and VNB rose 41%, with margin at 22.4%. FY27 VNB margin guidance is 22%–23%, while geopolitical uncertainty limits top-line guidance.

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Canara HSBC Life Insurance Q4 FY26 earnings conference call hosted by Motilal Oswal. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Sharish Deshmukh from Motilal Oswal. Thank you and over to you, sir. Thank you, Sagar. Good evening, everyone. It is a privilege to host the senior management of Canara HSBC Life Insurance Limited for their Q4 FY26 earnings conference call. From the management, we have Mr. Anuj Mathur, MD and CEO, Mr. Tarun Rustagi, the CFO, Mr. Nitin Agarwal, the Appointed Actuary, Mr. Ritesh Rathod, Chief Strategy and Data Officer and Mr. Amit Jain, the Head IR. I now hand over the call to Mr. Anuj Mathur, MD and CEO. Over to you, sir. Yeah. Thanks, Sharish, and good evening to everyone and a very warm welcome into our earnings call. In fact, this is the first time after our listing that we are announcing our full year performance. So, a very warm welcome to all of you. In fact, we sincerely appreciate your time and thank you for joining us today. Your continued engagement and insights are deeply valued. The financial results along with the investor presentation is available on our website as well as on the website for both the exchanges. Friends, I'll start my discussion with some key macro developments which impacted the quarter. The global operating environment continues to remain uncertain, with ongoing geopolitical developments leading to supply chain disruptions across multiple sectors. However, despite these headwinds, the Indian economy has demonstrated resilience and we believe its long-term growth fundamentals remain firmly intact. The insurance sector has seen some temporary moderation, though our long-term outlook remains unchanged, supported by structural drivers such as increasing protection, under-penetration and steady growth in household savings. From a regulatory perspective, we welcome the transition to Ind AS, which will align our financial reporting with global best practices and over time bring increased consistency and transparency to business performance metrics. However, given that it is too short a time period, we have taken a prudent approach and obtained board approval to take a forbearance for a period of one year, which is in line with the IRDA guidelines. So we'll be writing to regulators for that forbearance shortly. Friends, now let me discuss the highlights of the business performance for FY26. Financially, FY2025-2026 witnessed significant milestones in terms of our listing, our IPO, launch of agency business and superior business performance, which I'm going to touch upon now. On growth parameters, we delivered healthy individual WPI growth of 19% year on year, 24% in APE terms in FY 2026, which is in line with the guidance that we provided last year. We continue to outperform both the industry and private players by a big margin. In fact, our growth rate was highest amongst the top 10 players in WPI terms in the industry, which demonstrates the strength of our business. In Q4 FY 2026, we grew at 15% year on year and we saw very decent shifts in our product mix towards traditional and protection business. I am also going to touch upon our Value of New Business, VNB and VNB margin when I come to financial metrics. Key highlights during the quarter was shift in product mix towards traditional segment, which led to the share of traditional mix rising up to 81% in Q4 FY 2026, compared to 39%, which was till December 2025. Consequently, for FY 2026, the overall mix between linked and non-linked stood at 51%. That is related to the guidance which we gave last time that we would like our product mix to be more balanced and this is what is there in the actual numbers. This reflects our strategy to convert towards a balanced product mix and demonstrates our ability to proactively recalibrate our product portfolio to optimize value. Given the healthy growth that we have witnessed, our rank amongst the private players has improved to ninth in FY 2026 compared to tenth in FY 2025. This is on WPI basis. Within traditional, growth was broad-based and led by new product launches in both par and non-par segments, which grew at a steady pace of 15% year on year for FY 2026 with a share in total ACX, 28%. I would now like to talk about the protection business. Our protection business saw significant growth with term life growing at 40% year on year for the quarter. While individual protection continued to grow from a low base, share of total protection rose to 7% in FY 2026 from 4% in the prior year, FY 2025. We will continue to focus on this to increase our protection mix further. Coming to annuity, in APE terms, we saw healthy growth of 24% year on year for FY 2026, with share largely steady at around 14%. We continue to focus on deferred annuity, which provides long-term customer value and earnings visibility. I will now talk about our persistency. Friends, our 13-month persistency also saw significant traction and I am happy to share that renewal premiums maintained very steady momentum, recording a 25% year on year growth for FY 2026. We continue to see improvements in persistency across cohorts. Our 13-month persistency has risen to 86.3% from 84.4% in FY 2025. It is a 1.9% jump in 13-month persistency. Our 61st month persistency has also shown steady improvements and currently stands at around 55.5%. These consistent improvements underscore the strength of our customer retention, the quality of sales practice, and the long-term sustainability of our growth trajectory. Along with the premium growth, our number of policies also grew at 7% year-on-year, which shows gradual movement towards increase in penetration. Friends, while early days, I am happy to share that our recently launched agency channel is performing in line with the company's plan. We have onboarded about 500 distributors, and we collected a premium of INR 14 crore APE terms in this channel in less than six months of our launch. We will continue to scale up this channel in a phased manner and remain confident of further growth in FY 2027. Our alternate channels have also grown by 29% over previous year, and currently it contributes to roughly 9% of our WPI. We are on this journey to increase share of alternate business to 15% over next three years. Now let me take you through some of the key financial metrics. Our Value of New Business, VNB, for FY 2026 stood at INR 627 crore, registering a growth of 41% year-on-year. Despite GST headwinds, we reported a healthy VNB margin of 22.4% for FY 2026, up from 19.1% in FY 2025. The margin improvement was led by a favorable product mix shift towards protection and improvement in product level margins. Without GST impact, our margins would have been around 24.6%, which is closer to the market consistent margin. Coming to profit after tax for FY 2026, stood at INR 127 crore, an increase of 8% year-on-year. On the expenses side, we continue to work on optimizing our expenses on the back of increase in volumes and continuous technology initiatives, various AI initiatives. Consequently, our total expense ratio was stable at 18.7% in FY 2026. Excluding GST and labor code impact, it is at 17.5%. Our embedded value grew at 18% year-on-year, reaching INR 7,233 crore with an operating RoEV of 20.7%. Our solvency ratio remains comfortable at 190%. Coming to customer centricity, that is a focus area for the company. We continue to see improvement across key metrics which measure customer centricity. I earlier touched upon improvement in our persistency across cohorts. I am happy to share that we continue to excel on customer services front and have witnessed a significant improvement in our NPS score, Net Promoter Score, which is a testimony of the customer experience. Our Net Promoter Score, NPS, has improved from 76 in FY 2025 to 80 in FY 2026. Our claim settlement ratio has also improved from 99.4% in FY 2025 to 99.6% in FY 2026. Another important achievement for us, which is on the people front, we participated in the Great Place to Work survey. We have been doing that for last five years, and our ranking has improved there also. We used to be in top 50 in BFSI. I am happy to share that our company now features in top 25 companies in the BFSI as per this latest GPTW survey. Just to close now, to conclude, we would like to reemphasize our strategy of maintaining above-industry profitable growth, balanced product mix, consistent growth in VNB, and a phased growth of our agency channel. Thank you, everyone. With this, we are now happy to take any questions that you guys may have. Over to you. Thank you very much. We do now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and then one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Again, to register for a question, please press star and then one. Our first question comes from the line of Mohit Mangal from Centrum. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good evening, and thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the economic variance in the EV book. So it is about INR 820 million negative. Could you just spell out the reasons for the same? Yeah. Good evening, Mohit, and I will ask my colleague, Niten Agrawal, to answer this. Hi. The main reason for this is actually the equity reduction. The foreign equity market, so that has resulted in the UL because a good proportion of the UL is invested in equity. So the future for charges, particularly the fund management charges, the impact of that on this is the main reason for the economic value being negative for this particular year. Okay. If you can just split between equity and debt, that would be very helpful. The difference is coming actually, the reduction is mostly coming from the equity side. On the debt side, generally what happened is on the risk and net worth side, they mostly cancel out. There is an offsetting impact on the net worth of the risk. Whereas because on the equity, on the unit link side, mostly it is the risk that comes through. The bigger impact is coming on equity. The debt side is very much minimal. Understood. That is helpful. The second question is on the GST. I think, last time you said that about 185 basis point impact, and I think we are in line with what you said the impact on the VNB margin. Going forward, how do you see this kind of planning out in financial 2027 and 2028? Do you see the VNB margin increasing and the impact of GST decreasing, or how should we look into that? Hi. Thanks for the question. GST, we have rephased the margin now, where we have already taken impact of six months of the GST impact. Plus, like we mentioned that on the renewal commission, we have already taken calls, which is actually helping us to reduce the GST impact in future also. Keeping that in mind, we do not see that it is going to further impact. Obviously, there will be some annualized impact next year. But at the same time, as our business is growing, the product mix is shifting, and also the protection mix is increasing. We expect that the margin is expected to grow from the current level what we have reported. This is what we are targeting. Understood. But you are not giving any numerical guidance. So in terms of the VNB guidance, it will be around. So we will improve over what we have reported this year. So it will be around between 22%-23% range. Understood. That is very helpful. Also now, good start with the agency channel. Wanted to know a little bit as to what they are selling. How has been the response, if you could just throw some color on that? Sure. Yes. So actually, we have done well in the first six months of our agency launch. I have got our Chief Agency Officer, Dinesh, with me, so maybe he will talk about key metrics and the plan. Good evening. This is Dinesh. We started on time as we wanted on 1st of October, and we are in the initiation stage of agency buildup. The leadership is in place, and this is the first step that we have taken. Coming forth, I think quarter on quarter, we will now move on towards scaling up the business contribution coming from this channel. Product mix. The quantum of businesses that we have done now is INR 14 crores. We are right now looking at more from a perspective of making a meaningful contribution in the overall business, and the product mix will be in line with what the organization is looking for. We are looking at close to 5% contribution coming from agency over the next 3 years. I think that is a broad guidance I would like to give. Understood. That is helpful. Last data tipping question, if you can spell out the rider attachment rate. It is about 70% on the ULIP, unit link policies. Roughly 70% policies we are able to attach protection riders in premium terms. Understood. That is very helpful. Sorry. Actually, it is on NOP base. Okay. 70% of the eligible customers, we are able to attach riders. Okay. But in premium terms, what that would translate to? That number, okay. The premium term in terms of total overall unit, it is around 5% of the total premium which we have collected from units. Okay. Quite a big difference. Yeah. The ticket size of riders are very small, but it helps to enhance the margin of the unit link. We are able to do that. In terms of NOP, it is around 70 plus, but in terms of premium size, it is 5% of the total. No, I got it. Very helpful. Thanks. Wish you all the best. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Ansh Mehta from Value Partners. Please go ahead. Hi Anuj. Hi, Tarun. Ansh Mehta here again. Just two questions from my side. First is, we have seen some media reports on HDFC Samruddhi in Canara HSBC Life Insurance Company. Pardon. We have seen some. Can you hear me now? Sir, you are sounding muffled. If you are using any external Bluetooth headset or anything, may I request you to use the headset mode please? Yeah. Sure. Can you hear me now? Yes. It is better. Yeah. So first question is with regards to, we have seen some media reports that HDFC might increase its stake in Canara HSBC Life. The info is coming from PNB or Canara Bank. How does that impact our product and channel mix? That is the first question in the near term. Then the second question is with regards to the statement from the DFS secretary with regards to open architecture. Already in Canara Bank, we have sort of LIC policies being sold, but what will be the impact in terms of counter share? Maybe the LIC counter share will increase. Sorry to interrupt. Your volume is modulating, so it should not If I just repeat your question, Ansh. First question was related to the media news with respect to HDFC, and the second question what you are asking is the statement made by DFS with respect to banca. You also mentioned that LIC is already there as one of the distributors in Canara Bank. You want to understand our view, right? Correct. Yeah. On the first question, I will say it is a media speculation, and as a company, we do not comment on media speculation. That is on your first question. On the second question, we have also read from media, but we have not got any kind of details further from the DFS or regulators. We will await regulatory guidance. I would like to confirm that in our case, Canara already has one more option. In addition to Canara HSBC, they have product from LIC also available in the counter. That is there. We do not see this as any kind of big risk for us because we are already in that mode. In terms of counter share, LIC is there for some time, and I think currently their share is minuscule and our focus will continue. We are going to grow our business. We are fairly confident that we will be able to manage our growth in Canara Bank. Hope that answers your question. Yeah. That is very clear. Just from the, of course, I understand you cannot comment on media speculation, but what will be the difference in terms of the product mix at HSBC Bank versus the Canara Bank branch in terms of protection sales at HSBC? If you can just comment on the product mix difference. First of all, Ansh, I would request you to please de-link the two topics. If you want to know the product mix in Canara and product mix in HSBC, I can share those numbers with you currently as they stand. It has got no linkage, first of all, with the shareholding. I just wanted to clarify on that point. Yeah. That is clear. Yeah. So in HSBC, because the kind of customer profile we have where the risk appetite is also higher, their UL proportion is around 60% or so. In Canara Bank, UL proportion again would be in the range of about 50%. So that's the broad kind of indication for the time being. Right. Understood. Okay. That is very clear. Thank you. Thanks for all your help. Thank you very much, and all the best. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks much. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Sanket Godha from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, if I add back the GST impact and labor code impact, honestly, you are closer to 25 and you guided that the number will be more 22-23 for the full year next year. Is it not fair to say that the real number is more closer to 25 going ahead? Or I am missing something when you said 22-23 kind of a number for the next year? Sanket, thanks for the question. In this 22.4, there is also a benefit which we have got from the yield curve and there is a possibility that it might not repeat itself in the current year, which is 2026-2027. If you look at the walk which we have presented, that if I take away that plus there is a full-blown impact of the agency growth which will be a negative strain. That is also going to take away some bit of a margin. Therefore, what we are expecting that we will continue to grow our margin and expect it to reach around the range which we have provided. That is going to be our guidance. Sir, which means that the yield curve benefit maybe largely will pass on to the end consumer in the current year, probably. Therefore, that benefit what you got, 200 basis points in the current year must not be there, and therefore, more realistically, you are looking at 22-23 kind of a number. That is the way I need to understand? Yeah. There is a possibility that we have to pass on that benefit to the customer and also it depends on the market direction. Market direction, yeah. Market direction. If the yield curve is going to further improve, then obviously we will continue to get the benefit. Otherwise, it has corrected from the last, it has crossed 7%, 10-year G-Sec rate, if I say, but now it has come back again to 6.75% to 6.9%. I think that is something which will be mostly depending upon the market. Sorry to ask again. Suppose the yield curve broadly remains at the current level for the last part of the next year, then the only reason the margin should be 22%-23% is that if you pass on the benefit to end consumer, assuming macro doesn't change. Actually, just one more thing, because the GST impact actually for last year was only half year impact, whereas in the coming year it will be a full-blown impact of full year. That will also have a negative effect. Plus, we obviously have agency also there for the full too. That could also have a detrimental impact. In spite of the yield curve, that is the reason why we are giving a direction. Okay. Understood. This operating assumption change 50 basis point negative impact is largely because of the investments you made in agency channel? No. The operating assumption change and negative one is mostly amount to some of the demographic assumptions that we make. We have strengthened some of our persistency assumptions as we see improvement in our persistence assumptions. This is more like a one-time negative impact. But over the future, we will see positive impact coming out on that. That explains the change in the EVOP, right? That nine four number probably. That's right. Okay. Understood. Given our economic variance numbers or operating variance numbers seems to be meaningfully very big around INR 130 crores in the EVOP, just wanted to understand where it came from, assuming I am believing it should not be related to mortality given you said it is largely because of the OpEx. Yeah. That is correct. It is largely because of the OpEx. So OpEx efficiency when obviously the number of policies and the volumes are increasing, so that is ultimately a unit cost. So the per policy cost is improving and that is From E to A. This is the same direction or guidance which we provided throughout, that we will continue to have our operating positive variants coming to us as we increase our base and also efficiently run the business on the expense side. Understood. The reason I was asking also is that given we have seen improvement in the persistency, maybe if you have revised the assumptions or if you have a variance or positive benefits because of the persistency improvement, that is also getting reflected in this INR 130 crores or not. The persistency assumption is not getting reflected. It is indirectly getting reflected because of persistency, the number of policies are increasing. From a maintenance cost, the maintenance cost divided by the number of policies, that is helping our per policy cost. That is also helping. But indirectly, not in the demographic assumption column over there, it's a one-time negative impact, but over here it's coming as a positive. Understood. I have another two questions. One is more on capital side. Suppose we are at 190 solvency, and I am not sure whether the sub-debt what you intend to raise is part of this 190 or not. If it is not, that might further improve it. But if you intend to grow more protection or more non-par or more annuity and even agency which are capital sharing or is paying to your P&L, then whether it will trigger some kind of capital raise or anything on those lines? Or you think this 190 is good enough to take care of this current growth rate of 20% plus what you are reporting for the full year? Sanket, 190 includes the sub-debt which we raised to 50. Yes. There is a negative impact, MTM impact, which has actually impacted the solvency adversely because we have some equity in the non-unit link fund also. As per the solvency calculation, we have to take the MTM unrealized losses there, which has already recovered to the extent almost 50%-60% now. This is a short-term impact which we are seeing. Our solvency is going to go back upward of 200%, and that will be sufficient for us to write additional protection business, which we are targeting. As and when we will be requiring more capital, we will be again evaluating the timing and the quantum of that. Understood. Lastly, if you can give that number of protection which is INR 205 crores broken down into retail and credit life. Almost 50/50. Almost 50/50. Okay. Understood. That's lastly my questions. If any, I will come back in the queue. Thanks. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two each for participants. You may rejoin the queue for any follow-up questions. Our next question comes from the line of Nischint Chawathe from Kotak. Please go ahead. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. I was looking at your VNB walk and when I look at the business impact of around 340 basis points for retail, does this largely reflect the growth in protection business, right? Or is there any other change in composition? Because composition broadly suggests that it is similar. I would attribute it to three things. One, as correctly pointed out by you, is the increase in protection both on the individual and group. Second is the high rider attachment, as we already mentioned, that about 70% rider attachment, which is again something which we will continue to grow because right now we are still focusing on one or two riders, but in future we see potential to increase our riders, number of riders as well. Like CI and everything comes, which we are not still exploring too much. It is there in the product group, so that is something again which we expect to increase going forward. The third one is coming from the credit life and the PCTP mix. Our business profile, we have also been focusing this year on higher PCTP mix which has also, both in the unit and group, which has also helped grow our margins. Got it. Just one small thing. Have you given any guidance or shared any thoughts on the growth that you are looking at this year? You are referring to top-line growth? Yes. Top-line growth. See, based on the current uncertainties which are there, the geopolitical uncertainty, we would not like to give any kind of guidance for the time being. One thing which I will definitely like to mention, and we are pretty confident about that, is that our growth will be superior to the industry growth, which you would have seen in the past also, that we will continue to outperform the industry. Once there is clarity on this geopolitical front, then we will be happy to give guidance on the top line also starting from next quarter. But as I mentioned, we are clearly confident that our growth will be superior to the industry growth. And fair to say that the forthcoming guidelines on whatever changes could be made on agency commission or deferment or whatever is in the works don't affect you as much? See, that in fact, we have shared in the past also that our commission rates are quite reasonable. We do not have the exact numbers coming in the new regulation, so cannot really comment on that. But I think we are pretty well-positioned to take care of that. I do not think so it will be a challenge for us while we await our final numbers or guidance coming from the regulators on that. Okay. Just one last thing is, IFRS readiness, did you kind of wait for a year and do you do IFRS for HSBC? No. We do not report IFRS number to HSBC and we were actually going as per the earlier schedule of 1 April 2027. As mentioned in the opening comment by Anuj, we are going for a forbearance for one year and will be implementing from 1 April 2027. Got it. Thank you very much, Anirudh. Thanks. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Swarnab Mukherjee from 360 ONE Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. A couple of questions from my side. First, sir, you had mentioned that your expectation is to outperform the industry growth. I just wanted to understand from the product point of view, which segment do you anticipate will be the major driver of the growth? I understand the cyclicality that might be there in category mix based on the overall macro environment. But when I look at a quarterly level, your mix, et cetera, so normally I think Q3 kind of growth has been, looks like gets driven a lot by ULIP and then in other quarters, I think share of traditional products pick up. So maybe if you could highlight what would be your thoughts regarding say product segment level growth, that would be helpful. If you can also highlight maybe is it just the factor of macros where we have in the last two third quarter numbers we've seen a higher mix of ULIP or is there any channel level strategy that kind of leads to that? That is my first question. Second is, I just wanted to also understand the sensitivity numbers that you have reported in terms of embedded value from FY 2025. We read that in FY 2026 there has been quite a drop. So just wanted to understand how this is playing out in terms of the numbers. Sure. And third is. Yeah, sorry, sir, one last question again on the product mix side. I am sorry I am joining a little late, maybe you have mentioned in your opening statement, but this is more protection and I see that there is also traditional savings you have mentioned in the presentation. Is this like non-par product? Because par you have mentioned, I think separately. Just wanted a clarification on this. Sure. Thank you. I will try to first answer your first question and third question together, and then I will request our Appointed Actuary to talk about the sensitivity. See, first of all, I would like to mention that we should not be looking at month on month or quarter on quarter provision. I think our overall strategy is very clear that we want a very balanced product mix, which would mean roughly 50% ULIP and roughly 50% traditional. That is number one in terms of our overall strategy on the product mix. Number two, yes, the market conditions also impact to some extent in terms of market appetite for a particular category of product. We have seen last particular half quarter, which was strong quarter, obviously the market was not very supportive. Obviously the customer preference also shifts accordingly. But I will also like to mention that new product launches also play a very important role in this. In fact, in the month of February and March, we had launched new traditional products. One was par, the other was non-par. That had some kind of good customer outcome, which resulted in our traditional mix actually going up in these two months. I would say there are a couple of factors which determines what kind of product mix for a particular period. But largely, and I think my answer will be that we should look at it from long-term perspective. When I say long-term, at least one year, that product mix will be balanced. Within that, as and when we launch products or depending upon the market conditions, percentages can go up and down. There can be minor variation, but on overall basis, from long-term perspective, our guidance is very clear and we will stick to that. Now I will request my colleague Nithin to talk about the sensitivity. On the interest rate sensitivity, I think this is something which we have been talking about the last few investor calls as well, that we have been working with a tactical call to increase the duration of our assets, which has helped in reducing the sensitivity. In addition to that, we have also been increasing our hedging ratio. So we have been increasing our instrument derivatives, which is also helping in reducing the interest rate sensitivity. Right, sir. Okay. Just a couple of follow-ups maybe. Can you maybe, sir, highlight what proportion of your book would be hedged right now and instrument you are using for the same? Anuj sir, I just wanted your views on how do you see say over a cycle, maybe not near term, of course, because of the volatility in the market, but how do you see the overall industry level APE growth pan out in the life insurance industry over say maybe a 2, 3 year point of view, assuming that it is a relatively normalized scenario? Yeah. Thank you. Right. In terms of business growth, top line growth, my expectation is that in this year, the current year because of the geopolitical stuff, industry may grow in the range of about 10% or so. Over longer term, and considering that the regulatory environment continues to be favorable, which it is currently, and the markets also stabilize, I think we can expect growth in the industry to the tune of about 20% to 14%. That is my take in terms of the industry growth. Right, sir. Got it. Very well. On the hedging part, sir? Yeah, on the hedging, we are at about 70% hedging ratio right now, and we mostly invest in FRAs, the forward rate agreements, as well as we have recently started investing in bond forward deals. Okay, sir. Okay. This is very helpful. Thank you so much, sir. All the best for FY 2027. Thanks. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Nitesh Jain from Universe Tech. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is on channel mix and which channel growth broke in FY 2026. We do not have FY 2025 data to compare. Which channels broke that mix and how do you see growth potential in Canara Bank, let us say from a medium-term perspective? How are you planning to drive that growth in Canara Bank? Right. We witnessed growth across all channels. Whether it was Canara, whether it was HSBC or other alternate channels. Across channels, we have seen decent growth. Coming to the split in terms of Canara contribution, that was about 72%. HSBC was 14%, other banks close to about 6% and remaining 8% was alternate. That is the broad split, 72, 14, 6 and 8. This is in terms of channel-wide contribution as of now. Last year. Yes. On the potential in Canara Bank, how do you see growth potential in Canara Bank and let us say in terms of branch penetration, how many branches we have penetrated, what is the potential, et cetera, and Right. How do you plan to drive growth there? Right. I think we have really good potential in Canara Bank, and this is something which we have shared over a period of time also in past listings that the customer base is huge. It is about active customer base. If I talk about in Canara, it is about 8.5 crore customer base. Currently, our penetration is less than 2%. There is ample scope for increasing our penetration. Coming to branch activation, our definition of activation is that a policy which is more than INR 50,000 ticket size, if minimum 10 policies have been sold in a particular branch, then we consider that as active. That is the definition of our activation. And currently, going by this parameter, 54% of Canara Bank branches are activated. If you ask me whether all the branches have sold some policies, then my answer would be yes, there will be branches who would have sold one policy, five policies, ten policies. But our threshold is 10 policies with minimum ticket size of INR 50,000. And our activation has actually improved, as I mentioned, to 54%. It used to be 50% previous year. Sure, sir. That is it from my side. Okay. Okay, thanks. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Vinod Rajamani from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for taking my question. There is one question on this ANAB, which has declined from INR 18,504 million to INR 15,600 odd million. The question is based on this 18 CAGR of above industry growth and this growth that we are seeing as well in protection as well as non-par and annuity, what is the capital requirement? If you have a 3-year plan, what will be the capital requirement and is it self-sustaining at current levels or do you think there could be further capital raises or subordinated debt in FY 2027 or in the next few years? I just want to know what this capital raise that you have done and what is built into in terms of the growth expectations for different product categories. That is question number one. The second question I have is on the agency channel. Now that we have started recruiting and so on and we are building out this agency channel, what is our expectation in terms of, say, in the next 2, 3 years, what level do we want to scale it to and what targets do we have in mind? These are the questions I have. Thank you. Right. I will start with the first one. Like we mentioned that right now our capital is good enough to take a growth of protection business and various cohorts. Basis the prediction which you are asking is, there is definitely if the capital need is there, we will be reaching market and raising the subordinated debt if that is required. As our profit is building up, that will continue to provide the support for this capital need what we are looking for. The growth and everything is well planned and structured and all the parameters are considered for capital requirement and for various product mix and the growth which we are targeting. Yeah. Got it. On your agency question, I will ask Dinesh, our Chief Agency Officer, to provide some details. Yeah. Good evening. We actually want to invest in the channels from a long-term perspective and for diversification. It is a strategic priority for us. Roadmap centers on Tier 1 branch strategy, and we want to make a meaningful contribution of around 5% in next three years' time. We have to also be clear that it has to be a sustainable growth and it has to be done in a phased manner. That is the current guideline this year. Yeah. And we are seeing some encouraging signals in the initial phase of first year. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all the participants, you may press Star and then One to ask a question. Our next question comes from the line of Mr. Prashant. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity and congrats on your great set of numbers. First question is on, while you alluded to the dynamic at Canara, could you also throw some light on HSBC as to what is the kind of penetration? I think if I remember correctly, there are more number of branches that HSBC is opening up. Yeah. What is the status there, and how are we scaling up there? That is my first question. I will follow up with my second later. Sure. Okay. HSBC has actually delivered good growth of 29% last year, and I think that trajectory will continue. As you rightly said, HSBC is in expansion mode, so eight branches they have opened over and above 26 branches which were there already. We are seeing very good traction in HSBC. We are also looking forward to starting with the disability business, which will also add to the business growth. We are very optimistic about growth of business in HSBC coming from obviously the affluent base which is there. To answer your specification on penetration, in the premier segment which they have, where we primarily sell insurance, our penetration is close to 14%. Okay. Is there any other channel which is not available to us today to address, like a credit card customer or any other category of customer at HSBC which we are not serving today and has the potential to be opened up for us? Yeah. So there are segments. So for example, personal banking is one where we are expanding, and also the credit card customers who may not be having bank account. So we have created propositions specifically to address that base. So we are very much aware of the potential which exists even in these categories, and we are creating products to suit those needs. In fact, credit life also is something which we sell in HSBC, and as the bank is focusing on mortgages, our contribution from credit life will also increase. Right. When we compare, let's say, a Canara and a SBI or the other PSU large bank-supported players, there's obviously a big gap between the branch productivity. Obviously, you've worked over the last few years to improve the momentum there. What are new initiatives that Canara will be taking to ensure that we continue to grow at a healthy pace and also, I think, yeah, that was my second question. Right. So first of all, we are focusing on the branch activation. We want to further increase it. Currently, it's about 54%. We want to increase the activation. Number two, on the productivity, there also we have taken certain initiatives, and we are using analytics to figure out those particular pockets where the potential is higher. So that's one way of also getting into that customer base, which may not be visiting branches but have the wealth or the need for protection. So, that's where we are focusing upon taking help from analytics, customer segmentation, all of it to improve both branch productivity as well as branch activation. You are right, there is currently gap between SBI and other public sector banks. But if I talk about the numbers, actually, Canara productivity levels are just next to SBI. Amongst the PSU banks, after SBI, it's Canara Bank with the productivity and activation numbers which are there. So we're focusing there on business, and as I mentioned earlier also, there's a lot of potential, and we are following segmented approach and help from the data analytics to further penetrate. So that's what we are doing currently. Got that. Last question is on agency channel. You have a decent branch network and already some bit of infrastructure already in place. Right. From a, say, somebody setting up from ground up zero to someone like you, what kind of differential and what kind of momentum, or do you think that the kind of profitability that you're delivering, do you want to front end the expenses? Some bit of more color apart from what you've given so far. Right. We are currently leveraging on the branches which we have. We have about 105 branches of Canara HSBC. For agency specifically, we want to be active in at least 50 locations. That will be mix of some specific new locations as well as using our current branch infrastructure. That's how we are going to optimize. Our backend is all in place for last 17, 18 years, so we are leveraging on that in terms of expansion. Basically, it's the new branches plus the number of distributors we are going to engage and the manpower to support that. Basically, the investment is going to be primarily in the front end capability, and we are going to leverage on our existing branch network. Got that. Thank you so much, and wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Pratap Rajpurohit from Systematix Group. Please go ahead. Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on the good numbers. Thank you. Hope I am audible. Yeah. Thank you. So first on your new product, do you see any more gaps in your existing product segments where you think you will be launching new products now? See, our product suite is complete. Actually, we have products across various categories. So first of all, I would like to mention that there are no gaps in our current product suite. But we can always improvise, and in fact, there are new ideas which keep on coming up, and that is what we have done. When I talked about two new traditional products which we launched in February and March, what we looked at was on customer needs as well as offering some attractive propositions. So it is an ongoing thing. So I will not say there is a gap in the product suite. Product suite is complete, tapping into all segments across the age group. But you always have the opportunity of designing new features, offering something innovative, and from the product development side, we always keep kind of focusing on some of these initiatives, which is helping us in growing our business volume. So it is an ongoing journey, and we will continue to innovate our products and offer features which are unique in the market. Okay. On the volatility in the mix with actually, generally, it can be other bank also, but we do not have the long-term history of our insurers. So generally, how is the volatility? Is it Q4 being heavily means the Q3 being heavily focused or as we heavily move away from unit, is there a trend historically in terms of product mix? Yeah. See, first of all, I'd like to mention that, actually, we don't look at month on month or quarter on quarter. The guidance which we had given is for the year, and depending upon the market conditions, depending upon the needs, we may make some tweaks. The broader guidance is 50% kind of UL and 50% traditional, and month on month, quarter on quarter it may vary. There's no fixed seasonality, I'll say, in terms of product mix. But depending upon the market conditions, customer asks, and new product launches, we may see spikes happening in certain months and we may see usually selling in those months where the markets are kind of giving good returns and all that. My request would be rather than monitoring product mix on a month on month or quarter on quarter basis, you should look at full year because that is what it matters. That's how we monitor internally. Then we've got various sales enablers which we keep on tuning from time to time to create excitement. Okay. The channel mix that you gave recently, I think is exactly same as what you have reported. So I'm assuming it's for FY 2026. Can you give the channel mix for FY 2025, if possible? Yeah, it's almost similar. It's a similar channel mix, so there is not much- Okay change between FY 2025 and 2026. Okay. Recently, RBI came with a draft on the disposable business. Do you see any implications on the ground, any change in terms of the bank operations after the draft? See, first of all, we welcome such changes, but right now they are draft. So we are looking for final guidelines to be issued and we will be very happy to implement. In fact, our sales practices are well-governed and we will go with whatever suggestions or the guidelines issued by either RBI or IRDA. Okay. Can you give the breakup in terms of your retail production between online and offline? This is generally offline. There is online where we use PolicyBazaar. Retail, we are able to do mostly offline this time. Okay. Thank you. I am done. Over. Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Yeah. Thanks a lot to everyone for participating in this call. I know that it is slightly late in the evening. Thank you very much for all your support and looking forward to further engagement. Thanks a lot. Thank you. On behalf of Motilal Oswal, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you. Thanks.