Please note that this conference is being recorded. Ladies and gentlemen, please note that CDSL does not provide specific revenue or earnings guidance. Anything said on this call which reflects CDSL's outlook for the future, or which could be constituted as forward-looking statements, must be reviewed in conjunction with the risks that company face. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Chandra from HDFC. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah, thank you, operator. So good morning, everyone. On behalf of HDFC Securities, we welcome you all to the CDSL quarter four FY 2024 earnings call. Today, we have with us the management team of CDSL, represented by Mr. Nehal Vora, MD and CEO, Mr. Girish Amesara, the CFO, and other senior leaders. Now we'll start with a brief overview of the quarter by Mr. Nehal Vora, and then we will open up for the question and answer session. Thank you, and over to you, Nehal, sir.
So thank you, Amit, for the introduction. A very, very good morning to everyone, and thank you for joining us today to discuss CDSL's financial results for the full year and fourth quarter of the financial year 2023-2024. We've provided a comprehensive investor presentation on our website for your convenience. I'm joined by the CDSL group's leadership team today, and we're happy to share our achievements with you. But before we dive into our company's performance, let's take a look at some key aspects of the securities market. Starting with the broad capital market landscape, the equity turnover has seen a significant increase of more than 50%. Particularly noteworthy is the fourth quarter, which experienced a 126% growth on the year-on-year equity turnover, marking it as an exceptional quarter for the entire securities market.
As for CDSL, this has been a special year for us as we celebrated our 25th year of existence. In line with the celebration and as for the momentum of growth in the capital markets, we've also seen an increase in the number of demat accounts opened. About 10,000,000 plus demat accounts have been opened in the fourth quarter of 2023-2024, which is the highest in any quarter since our inception. These kind of achievements are a testament of the growing trust in the Indian capital markets. Our financial performance reflects the trust and efficiency in the capital markets.
As a part of our performance, the board of CDSL has recommended a final dividend of INR 19 per equity share, and a special dividend on account of our 25th year anniversary celebration of INR 3 per equity share, totaling to INR 22 per equity share. All this is subject to shareholder approvals. Coming back to the trust in the Indian capital markets, to further enhance this trust and market efficiency, we've introduced several initiatives in the past year. These include the optional T+0 settlements, easier registrations for the alternative investment funds and the foreign portfolio investors, the facilitation of ASBA in secondary markets, the electronic consolidated account statement in 23 languages, and multilingual services on our website, which is all free to the market. These initiatives are aimed at promoting the inclusivity and accessibility of all investors.
As we transition from our 25th year and move to the next phase, we remain steadfast to our commitment towards our efforts towards enhancing trust in the financial ecosystem and empowering the Atmanirbharta. I would like to express our gratitude to all our stakeholders, whether it be SEBI, whether all the other regulators, the issuers, the depository participants, the beneficial owners, the employees, and all other market participants for their support towards CDSL. I would also like to extend my heartfelt appreciation to our investors, whose trust continues to drive us forward. Our unwavering focus remains on creating value for all our stakeholders and enhancing the Indian securities market to the next level. Thank you for your continued support and trust in us. I will now hand it over to Chief Financial Officer.
Thank you, Nehal. Good morning to everyone. Speaking on quarterly performance, on a consolidated basis, the total income for the quarter ended March 2024 has increased by 86% to INR 267 crore, as against INR 144 crore during the same quarter during the previous year. The net profit for the quarter ended March 2024 has increased by 105% at INR 129 crore, as against INR 63 crore for the same quarter during previous year. For the full financial year, on a consolidated basis, as on 31st March 2024, the total income has increased by 46%.
Ladies and gentlemen, management line has been dropped. Stay connected, we are connecting with the management. Ladies and gentlemen, management has... line has been connected.
Okay, so I will restart the financial number once again. Speaking on quarterly performance on a consolidated basis, the total income for the quarter ended March 2024 has increased by 86% to INR 267 crore, as against INR 144 crore for the same quarter during the previous year. The net profit for the quarter ended March 2024 has increased by 105% at INR 129 crore, as against INR 63 crore for the same quarter during the previous year. For full financial year 2023-2024 on a consolidated basis, the total income has increased by 46% at INR 907 crore, as against INR 621 crore for the previous financial year. The consolidated net profit has increased by 52% to INR 420 crore, as against INR 276 crore during the previous financial year.
On a standalone quarterly basis, the total income has increased by 82% to INR 205 crore, as against INR 113 crore for the same quarter during previous year. The net profit on a standalone basis for the quarter ended March 2024 has increased by 89% to INR 97 crore, as against INR 52 crore for the same quarter during the previous year. Speaking on the standalone financial year 2023-2024 numbers, the total income has increased by 37% to INR 743 crore, as against INR 544 crore during the previous financial year. The net profit on standalone basis has increased by 34% to INR 363 crore, as against INR 272 crore during the previous financial year.
Now I shall request Sunil Alvares to give an update about the operation of the wholly-owned subsidiary, CDSL Ventures Limited. Over to you, Sunil.
Good morning, everyone. I'm pleased to report the figures for CDSL Ventures Limited. The total operational income increased by 65% for FY 2024, okay, as compared to FY 2023. That is, it was at INR 169 crore as compared to INR 102 crore for the previous year. The other income increased, increased by 62% from INR 11 crore to INR 19 crore. As a result, the total income increased by 65% from INR 114 crore to INR 188 crore. As far as expenses are concerned, there was an increase of 54% in the expenses in FY 2024, from INR 49 crore to INR 76 crore. As a result, the profit before tax increased by 72% from INR 65 crore to INR 112 crore, and the profit after tax increased by 76% from INR 48 crore to INR 86 crore.
With this, now I'd like to open the floor for question and answers.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use hands-free while asking the question. Ladies and gentlemen, wait for the moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Swarnabha Mukherjee from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sirs. Thank you for the opportunity and, congratulations for a good set of numbers. I have three questions. First one on the number of folios. So I just wanted to understand from you that the number of folios, billable folios, how it has moved between, FY 2023 and FY 2024. If you could give some color, so that we can understand how the annual issue charges can be from first quarter onwards. That is the first question. Second is, in terms of the, two opportunities which might give us, some incremental traction on the top line front, just wanted to understand on the unlisted, companies, the recent regulation, if you have been...
If you could give us some idea about what opportunity sizes you are looking at, what could be the potential number of companies that you can target for this financial year and overall opportunity size? I understand that it's a moving target, but at the current standpoint, if some idea you can give. Thirdly, on the insurance, e-insurance side, with the new regulation, how do you look at the landscape, and what could be our potential opportunity size? Thank you.
So the first question is a forward-looking statement. So we're not able—we don't give forward guidance, so I would not be able to give an answer. The point in-
So, uh-
the folios which have happened in the previous financial year, which I get billed to the companies, in the first quarter. So once the first quarter results, whatever would be announced, you will have some perspective at the, that stage. On the second question, on the unlisted company, as I have said in my last investor call also, the deadline is September 2024. And it has conditions of, private companies which have a turnover of INR 40 crore or share capital of INR 4 crore. But only when these companies would like to either raise capital or transfer any capital, that's the time the demat will, be required to be done on a compulsory basis. So, it will have to be wait and watch, because there are these conditions.
Only when they get triggered, that's the time the demat opportunity will come into play. It is not kind of a simple rule. It has certain ifs and buts, so only when though all of them get satisfied, it will move. So it'll be difficult to predict what will be the population at this stage. We'll have to wait and watch as the further quarters move forward. On the insurance side, there has been a few amount of changes, but it's kind of really work in progress. We have a full team now looking at our insurance, basically, depository. I'd spoken about it about two or three quarters before.
So we have now a team in place, and we have basically the right, basically, the building blocks to ensure that this kind of the opportunity would translate into business as we move forward.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia, from Spark PWM. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. I had two questions. If, you know, you could get a sense of what is the mark-to-market gain in the other income for the whole year? And secondly, you know, what is the employee base as on date versus last year at a group level? And the impact of salary hikes and any will be felt in Q1, right? Is that the right understanding? Those were my questions.
I'll ask the CFO to answer the...
Yeah. I will answer you on the, on the count of employees. This year, we have closed at 335 as a count, CDSL, and last year it was 279 employees.
Okay. 3:35 is at the group level, right?
No, this is CDSL, CDSL count.
Okay.
Mark-to-market gain on investment is 37% growth as on 31 March 2024.
Okay.
The increment would be obviously factored in the next quarter for the next financial years.
In the Q1? Okay. Okay.
Yeah.
Thanks. I'll join back if I have more questions. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So my question, first question is on the insurance opportunity. So obviously you mentioned that, it's still not clear, but, as in the regulation, it mentioned that from first of April, all policies, will be, have to be issued in the, like, digital format. So is it, fair to assume that still there's ambiguity in terms of what this digital format means? Or are we seeing, traction in terms of, the EI account being created? And also the market share that we have, in terms of the EI account is still very low. So what's the strategy out there in terms of are we planning to be, like, aggressive on the insurance side, or it's too early as of now? And second would be on the, cost side.
Obviously, we have seen, you know, fairly a strong jump in the revenues, but, correspondingly, the cost also has been on the higher side, and especially technology cost has been inching up, especially in the last one and a half years. So, now, from here on, is it all the investments in technology over or still, you know, we have to expand our technology capability in terms of handling the higher volumes?
So, on the insurance side, it's the regulation is yet getting evolved. I think companies, insurance companies are required to issue the certificates, or the insurance policies in a digital format. But what happened about the old? And so these are all things which are kind of evolving, and we will see. In terms of our strategy, it's the entire tech stack, which we are contributing to, and hence the entire move towards an online technological impact or footprint on the insurance side is where we propose that we should be able to. But these are... will take some time because, kind of building on this will take... The market has to really understand what are the nuances, et cetera. So it's basically an infrastructure company.
So it takes time for it to build up, but we are very, very hopeful, and we have put in our people there, our technology there, so we'll see how it goes forward. On the costs on technology, technology and people are the two main costs for CDSL. And this will continue to—we will continue to invest in that because we have to ensure that the value proposition remains both in terms of maybe the infrastructure as well as maybe the applications which are being used. And to ensure that, and these are all kind of going to—it sees a process of change, so we have to continue to remain invested. Though it's a futures question, so I'm not able to give too many details.
In terms of, our focus remains on in investing in technology and people as we go forward.
Okay. Sir, one last question. So, how do you see the regulatory environment? Because we have seen some, you know, regulatory tightening on the exchanges side. So in terms of the, you know, in terms of the, like, regulatory risk, do you see any kind of an risk in terms of pricing? Because we have been doing so well on volumes. So is there any kind of a risk that you see on the pricing side?
I'm not able to give a definite answer here, because I think this is, again, in the future. It's also contingent on what the regulator thinks. But I think the costs that pricing is approved by SEBI in case of various depositories. So it's taken on record, and then it's taken forward from there. So I think we'll see how it goes forward.
Okay, sir. Thank you, and all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rushabh from RBSA Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, sir. So talks of single demand for all types of investments have been going on since long. But based on, say, your discussion with various authorities, what level of discussions are going on, sir? Can you see any light here in the next, say, near future, sir? Just want to understand your thoughts here.
So I think it's a process of regulatory change. Everything happens. I think the account aggregator model has is in the process, is getting picked up. So we'll see how it goes forward, how that will get linked to a single demat. This is a very long-term kind of a proposition. It will have to be seen on how and which framework format it will come in. Obviously, the ease of doing business is a focus of all the central government as well as all the regulators. So it will move towards that kind of framework is what we all hope. But it will be difficult to really predict at this stage as to how and what framework, format, et cetera.
How much incremental cost for tech do we have to do if, say, this comes in the next 2-3 years? Is there any ballpark range or any percentage of current investment that you have made? How big investments do we have to make for this to handle such volumes that may come?
It'll be difficult to predict because we don't know in what format, framework, new framework, if at all, it will come. So first we'll have to really observe what the framework, if at all it comes, and then we'll only able to really assess. Anyway, we don't give any, forward-looking and future statements, so I'll, I would not be able to give you a specific answer on this.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Supratim Datta from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. I have three questions. One, is on the cost front, you know, there has been a significant jump in, you know, both employee and tech costs in the depository business, the standalone business. And if I look at the subsidiaries, there has been a significant jump in the tech costs in the fourth quarter again. So if you could just explain to us, you know, what are the areas you are, you know, investing at the standalone level in terms of employee and tech, and in the subsidiary where has the tech investment gone? That would be very helpful. The second question is on the folio. I understand you don't give the folio numbers, but could you give us a sense of, you know, what has been the growth in folios this year, for example, versus last year?
And lastly, if you could give us a breakdown of the other income between CAS e-voting and others, that would be very helpful. Thank you.
So the first cost, technology has been all around on infra, on application, on, security and network. So it's an all-round because with the increased volumes, number of demat accounts growing fast, that needs to kind of keep a pace with that. But more importantly, we are an infrastructure company, so we will have to kind of preempt, also the potential, very growth. So we ensure that the technology, because it takes time to build technology, and therefore it has been all round. Similarly, there has been a similar kind of, technology, growth, which is seen in the subsidiaries. CDSL has also seen a good growth, so we need to really invest in technology, out there also. So people and technology is something which will continue, and these things don't happen very fast.
It takes time for you to invest in both these, so you need to really pre-plan in future, in kind of really in advance as to how you will be, be investing in this. So that is the reply to your first question. Your second question was, the second question was on the breakup of the other income. So other income largely consists of e-CAS charges of INR 9.37 crore, e-voting charges of INR 4.42 crore, and miscellaneous income in terms of user facility charges, account maintenance charges, and like of such such income heads.
e-voting was 4.42, right?
4.42, yes.
Yeah. And, my second, I had another question on the folio growth, if you could give us that, that would be great.
We don't give those numbers out in the public domain, so I'm sorry, we will not be able to do that.
Okay. Okay, and just one follow-up question. So you said you have made investments on the tech side in infra architecture, security, and, you know, similarly, corresponding employee investments have been made. So if I could understand with the current infrastructure in place, how many folios or, you know, demat accounts would you be able to serve it?
See, it is not just folios and Demat account. There are a lot of new products. For example, T+0 has come in. That will need new processes, a new in AIF processing has come in. So it's not just a simple, a simplistic answer that how many folios you can do or et cetera. It's a combination of various factors which come into play. Also, new kind of value propositions which are being put into the system to make it easier for people to trade, et cetera. For example, e-CAS is now in multiple languages. So these are some of the things, so therefore, it is not linked to the folios.
It's linked to the overall processing of the system, which is expected to do with a lot of features which are coming in, in addition to the load which is increasing.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratik Shah, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hello, everyone?
Yes, sir.
Yeah. Yeah. So firstly, congratulations, CDSL team for putting a great set of numbers. And also I'd like to congratulate Nehal, sir, for the CEO of the year Asia award . I have couple of questions from my side. Firstly, I mean, if someone has already asked on the same question, like insurance repository. So is there any pricing structure which is finalized by the regulator that how the individual policy will create an account and how CDSL will be charged for the account creation or maybe for a maintenance of this account? And secondly, I mean, just wanted to understand that completing the 25th year of operation and having enough reserves and cash in consideration for any buyback or dividend. So that was my question.
Pratik, can you repeat the second question? Your line is a little unclear. I cannot follow your question clearly. Or can you come closer to the-
Yeah, sure. Is that okay now?
Yeah, it's better.
Yeah. Okay. So just wanted to understand that, as you mentioned in that investor presentation, that CDSL completed almost 25 years of silver jubilee, and as I understood that, a lot of cash on the balance sheet as well and adequate PATs also. Is there any plan for any kind of corporate action, like buyback or bonus or any special dividend going forward?
So, we have given a special dividend, which is obviously subject to approval of shareholders, for our 25 years. So it's 19 + 3, INR 22. The remaining part will have to be seen and assessed as we move forward, so I will not be able to give any specific answer on that.
Yeah. On the first question, that is there any pricing structure for Insurance Repository?
For the insurance repository, you're saying?
Yeah, yeah.
The Insurance Repository, the pricing structure, is as I think it should be there. Yeah.
So for the insurance sector, pricing structure is divided into two parts, the creation of EIA and annual maintenance. So maintenance is INR 25, okay? Which is charged to the insurance company and not to the holder of the policy.
For creation, one-time charge of INR 20 is levied on the insurance company. So these are the two regular rate charges, which are charged to the insurance companies and not to the policyholders. I think you'll find this on the insurance website.
Yeah, that's the CIRL website
Okay. Okay, sir. Yeah, and all the best for the coming quarters. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Miraj from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Congratulations on a very good set of results. I had two sets of questions, and one thing. One of the points I missed out, I just wanted you to clarify that. The clarification part is that, one of the earlier participants had asked you regarding the insurance, evolution in the insurance segment, the recent announcement for, electronic issuance, and you had mentioned something that it is still evolving. Can you just repeat that part? I missed that part.
Yeah. So the point is that the law is out, how this will pan out between what the insurance companies will do, what the insurance repositories will do, how will the value chain work? All this is kind of in the process of early evolution. That's all.
Understood. But, based on the timeline, the electronic issuance would have started already, right?
Yeah, they could have started, so the insurance companies can do it themselves also, or they can kind of outsource it to an Insurance Repository. So both those models are there. So how it will finally pan out, what is good for the market, what is the value proposition for the market, is something which will have to kind of evolve as we know.
Understood. I just want to understand the point you mentioned that insurance companies can do it by themselves. I believe, sir, that they have to go through a repository only for this to maintain it in electronic form. Is it possible for or not?
I don't think so, it is only through repository. It could be themselves or it could be ... But I'll need to check this with my insurance team. Unfortunately, he's not there today, the CEO of the insurance repository. But if you want, you can send us an email, and we will have it replied.
Understood. Okay. My question regarding this insurance repository part is that as of our annual report, FY 2023, for the insurance repository business, LIC is not, we are, we are not tied up with LIC. So in the current financial year, have we tied up with LIC? Because they are one of the largest insurance issuing agency.
So the process and effort is all going on. Again, it's all futuristic. So whenever we will have that, we will kind of clearly disclose that. But we generally don't talk about specific insurance companies on this call.
Understood. Okay. I'll connect with you offline for that. And my second question is regarding the T+0 settlement and instant settlement. We had started with 25 scrips only. So just wanted to understand the progress on that part. Are we moving ahead with increasing the scrips over there? What kind of progress are we making over there?
So if you see the SEBI press release, it clearly talks about this is the beta phase. And they will see how much people, how many people have participated, has there been any issues, et cetera. And based on that, SEBI will take that call, whether it has to be increased, in what framework, through how many stocks, et cetera. So those all are the nuances you should just pay attention to the press release, if any, which will get issued by SEBI in this regard.
Mm. Understood. Perfect. But, based on our technological developments, there are no hiccups in the process as of yet, right?
Part of the ecosystem, so we have seen it go fairly smoothly till now. There have been no issues, at least from the CDSL end.
Mm-hmm. Yes.
I can only mainly talk about myself, but I think in overall, I don't see there has been any issues.
Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much. I have a few more questions. I'll just get back in the queue. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Madhukar from Nuvama Wealth. Please go ahead.
Hi. Morning. Congratulations on a great set of numbers! Just a couple of questions from my side. First one is insurance repository thing. So INR 20 per new account creation and INR 25, is it per account maintenance or is it per policy? And second, one account can have policies from many different insurance companies, so who will pay the INR 25?
See, I think I would request you can send us an email. We don't have our insurance partner in the room. I'll have that specifically replied to, so that it is actually clearly. If you can send across this query on email, we will have it replied.
Okay, I'll do that. And the other thing is also, see, I see you in your annual report, effectively, I think the insurance repository revenue is about INR 5 million. But obviously, the number of policies is a lot more. So are you actually making that amount? That's the other question, if you can answer that.
You're making that amount in?
On a per policy basis, how much are you making? Or, I mean, are these accurate, heavily discounted?
Yeah, send across your query. But see, again, see, it's a process of some policies are already there, which have to be taken from maybe the insurance company, some is getting newly opened. So there are various nuances to that. So I would again request you, just send us your questions on maybe the insurance repository, and we will have them replied to.
All right, sir. I couple of other questions. On the online demat accounts moved up quite sharply. So I wanted to know, is it majority with the new account openings, or is it more with fetch? And I believe the total records created should be around 7 million right now. Can you sort of clarify on that also? That'll be helpful. And finally, your other charges—what portion of it is regulatory charges? And they seem to be on the higher side. So I wanted to understand what is the driver of that?
Yeah. So I'll ask Sunil to answer this.
So in the last financial year, both the number of records created and number of records fetched have gone up substantially, which added to the overall KYC income. What was the second question? Sorry, I didn't get that.
So the number of records that we have right now, if you can give that number out.
We actually don't, you know, give out that number, so.
All right. Sorry.
I think we don't give that number out.
Okay. And, if the other charges, how much is the regulatory cost? And, the expenses are higher, so what are- what is driving that, actually?
So the regulatory cost for the full financial year is almost INR 38 crore in this financial year. And this is directly linked as a percentage of the operating revenue. So higher operating revenue, this charge would be on a higher side.
Okay. And, and what is the formula? Is it, what... I thought it was-
Regulation prescribes that 5% of your operating profits needs to be contributed to the Investor Protection Fund, so majority charge is on account of this number.
It seems INR 38 crore would be much more than that 5% number, right?
I don't think so. You have to look at operating profit and then arrive at this number, and this number is inclusive of that, expenses. So it works, you know, we have to assume that this expenditure is already there, and then work out 5% of the operating profits. That's how it is calculated.
Like your FY 2024, EBIT is about INR 462 crore.
No, you have to find out operating profits. It cannot be on EBIT.
The point he's trying to make is there's a formula which has to be put in place to arrive at this 5%, which needs to be debited. It's not a straight application on the profit numbers.
Understood. I'll take some more details with you offline. So that, I think, is the main driver of the other expenses, or are there other big drivers as well? What was this number last year? Last year, this number was... How much was the regulatory number last year?
Last year, the regulatory cost was INR 26 crore. This year it is INR 38 crore.
38 crore. Understood. All right, thank you. I'll get back in with you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Agarwal from VT Capital. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. So my question was on your transaction charges. They have increased significantly, year-over-year, as well as quarter-over-quarter. But the revenue per demat, if you calculate it in that manner, it's been quite volatile. I suppose the only component of that is the delivery charges that are deducted when a trade takes place, so in the delivery segment. Is that right, or is there any other component to that as well?
No, there is also the pledge charges, the margin pledge charges. There is the debit charges.
Yes.
So it's a combination of various other the transactions which are happening.
Okay. So the debit charges, like, it depends on. I mean, could you explain the reason for this volatility? I mean, it's like one quarter it was INR 11 per demat, then it comes, now it was, I think, it was INR 6 per demat. If you could, can you explain this volatility?
You're taking the wrong number. Number of demat will not really work because people will open, whether they transact in that demat or not, will have to-
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Correct.
The number of transactions which are occurring, which cause. So opening of demat can be opened at any point of time. CDSL-
Mm-hmm.
does not draw any money out of that.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
It's the number of transactions which happen, or the pledge transactions happens, or the debit transaction happen, which contributes to this particular income.
Okay. So can you, like, give some metric, year on year, what has exactly changed? Like, if you could give us the percentage of delivery turnover as a percentage of market turnover.
If you see directly the delivery-based volumes on the exchanges, there will be some amount of linkage to that, because it's how much delivery is happening on the stock exchange platforms. It leads to how many will take it, will have to happen.
Can you quantify, I mean, last year, what was it and what is it currently in the FY 2024 on an average and FY 2023 on an average? What has it been?
In terms of revenue number?
Yes. I mean, in terms of the delivery turnover percentage, and that you were mentioning.
Website. You will get from the exchange website. I'm... You asked me how it should be computed, but it's a combination. See, again, you cannot have one number. It's a multitude of the transactions which are happening. How many the pledging is happening, how many the repledging is happening?... mm-hmm, how many invocation is happening? How many sales are happening?
Mm-hmm.
You asked me for some number, so I gave you that number. So you will have to look at how much is, but that will not give you a one-to-one correlation.
I know.
It will be depending on the volume in the market, how many is translating into delivery, how many the margin pledges, et cetera, have been created. So it's something which cannot be done as one is to one. That is all I'm trying to say.
Okay, I understood that. Okay, sir, that's it from me. Thank you, sir.
Bye.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanket Godha from Avendus Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, Girish sir, I have few data keeping question, which you usually disclose. Can you share the unlisted income in the annual issue charges, pledge income in the transaction charges, and impairment cost for the fourth quarter and the full year? That's the question number one.
Yeah.
If you can repeat CAS income for the fourth quarter, it will be useful. I missed that number. That's my first question.
Sure. So total unlisted income for the quarter ended March is INR 1.85 crore. For full year, it is INR 5.45 crore.
Yeah.
Margin Pledge income for the quarter is INR 5.95 crore.
Okay.
And, uh-
For the full year, sir? Sorry, if you can give the pledge income for the full year, too?
Full year is INR 17.5 crore.
Okay. And if you can give impairment cost?
Sorry?
Impairment cost.
I am on that. See, impairment, there is a cost of INR 8 crore for the full financial year on impairment, and for the quarter, we have a reversal of INR 1.11 crore.
Okay. Okay. INR 1.1 crore reversal. And if you can tell me cash income, if you can repeat, that would be useful, sir.
Cash income for the quarter is INR 9.37 crore.
Great. Okay, sir. Thank you. That's on the data keeping. Okay, the next question I had was on largely with the tech cost. See, sir, this, I understand that you need to increase in the tech and all those things, but from INR 38 crores it going to INR 63 crores is a meaningful jump in the current year. So, this INR 63 crores also included repository tech, insurance repository tech costs, because you wanted to scale it up, given the regulations were coming up.
If that is the case, do we expect this number to tone down a bit going ahead, given we have already done 65% year on increase in the tech costs in the current year? Just wanted to understand how should we look at this number going ahead?
See, again, as I am telling you, reforms are going to continue. There are gonna be changes in the rules, the regulatory rules. There are gonna be changes in newer products coming in. There is a potential of growth which is possible. So it will be difficult. One is we don't give any future, any outlook.
But...
But it's also very difficult to really predict at this stage. We have to ensure that this is the bread and butter of CDSL. Technology and people are its bread and butter. So we have to not only ensure that the current state of volume is continuing, but even the potential future which could potentially come in, is kind of planned and factored in.
Mm.
Because building a technology platform, it takes its own time, and therefore, this is a process which is continuously going to evolve as we are going to move forward. We're gonna get more and more really sophisticated to ensure that the value proposition, really remains.
Sir, but the INR 63.3 crore for the full year, does it include something related to insurance, which you might have done as one-off in the current year, but might not be repeated in the next year?
The insurance is very small part of it, a small part of it.
Okay.
Again, we'll have to see how it pans out. It'll be difficult for me to give you a specific answer, whether this will repeat again or not repeat again.
Mm.
It will have to be seen as to how, the policy... Because the entire framework, as I told earlier, is getting evolved, and we have to ensure that the technology is really up to speed, to ensure that the value proposition remains.
Yeah. And, sir, the reason I'm asking this question is that, given insurance will be a new opportunity, and it's a big, one-time big opportunity, which will suddenly come in FY 25, then are we required to do more than expected additional tech cost in FY 25 to fulfill the requirement of insurance? Or we are up to the mark with respect to that requirement?
See, again, I'm telling you that the insurance sector framework is evolving.
Mm.
It is, it is not that it has evolved and we are trying to build it. So we are trying to repeat the same question again in different words. I'm trying to again and again tell you that we'll have to wait and watch. We will have to ensure, and as you have seen, that we have kept the pace with what the volume is there, to ensure that the technology is in sync with that. That's all I'm saying.
... Got it, sir. And the second next question is on insurance charges. Sir, you said that INR 25 is AMC and INR 20 is EIA creation cost. But I believe these charges are very competitive. These are rack costs, but actual costs when you onboard an insurance company might be meaningfully lower, or you strictly follow the rack charges when you open the annual issue charges or the AMC charges?
See, again, these are some things we don't put out in the public domain.
Mm-hmm.
These are all things which remains within our system. However, if you have any specific question, to the extent we put it out in the public domain, you send us an email, we will have it replied.
Got it. Got it, sir. And on insurance, sorry, on insurance, one more thing. Compared to last year, if you are aware, sir, how many number of companies tie-up have increased for us? Because we were predominantly in the past, life insurance company, tie-up company. We had very limited, exposure to general and health. And honestly, the bigger opportunity in, in the new norms is sitting in general insurance. Just wanted to understand whether we have onboard-
Numbers, the specific customers, type of customers, et cetera, we don't give out in the public domain. I would really request it that, what we can, we can, what we cannot, we cannot.
Got it, sir. And lastly, on capital market records, I think you published that number in the annual report. It would be great. I think last time also you said that number is 6.5 crores, number of capital market records with us in KYC business. If you can spell out that number for the full year, it will be useful, sir.
Yeah, we will see as part of the annual report, it will come out whenever, it will come out very shortly.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much, sir. That's it from my side.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Supratim Datta from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks a lot. You know, this is a follow-up question. Just wanted to understand on, you know, the management transition. So I currently understand that, you know, a shortlist has been submitted to SEBI. Just I wanted to understand what are the timelines, when do you expect SEBI to get back? And could you disclose, you know, who are on that shortlist as well? You know, that would be very helpful. Thank you.
So the process is on. It's a confidential list, and whenever there's a SEBI kind of a standard operating procedure, at the time when it is required to be announced, CDSL would promptly announce that. So at this stage, it will not be possible to reveal, because that is basically the SOP would not require us to.
Okay. But, you know, how much time would this process typically take?
It will be difficult for me to answer that question. That is on the SEBI.
Okay.
I answer that.
Sure.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Miraj from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the follow-up opportunity. I just want to understand that the technological costs that we've taken for the T+0 settlement, do we have to spend any more for the instant settlement part, or have we already incurred that? Because that will be the next stage of development.
Well, it's a constant process of in evolution. So there's T plus zero, tomorrow there is instant, probably after some time there may be some other reform. So that will be a continuous process, because the framework will have to be spelled out, and based on that, what is the cost on infra applications ? All that will have to be assessed after that. So it will not be possible to specifically answer whether the cost has been incurred or not, because it's a process of the evolution at this stage in terms of will it be instant, in terms of how the framework will work exactly.
Understood. Okay. Thank you so much. All the best for the future, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. If there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Nehal Vora for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Yeah, I would like to thank you for all your questions.