Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Central Depository Services Limited Q2 FY 2020 investor conference call hosted by Axis Capital Limited. Please note that CDSL does not provide specific revenue or earnings guidance. Anything said on this call which reflects CDSL's outlook for the future or which could be construed as a forward-looking statement must be reviewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aditya Bhagwan from Axis Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Neeraj. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and a warm welcome to the Q2 FY20 earnings call of CDSL Limited. From the management today, we have Mr. Nehal Vora, Managing Director and CEO, Mr. Bharat Sheth, CFO, Mr. Sunil Alvares, COO, CDSL Ventures, Mr. Gaurang Shah, Senior Vice President, and Mr. Nilesh Ketkar, Assistant Vice President. I'll hand over the call to Mr. Nehal Vora for his opening remarks, after which we will open the floor for Q&A. Over to you, sir.
First of all, I would like to welcome all of you. A very good afternoon. This is Nehal Vora. I'm the MD and CEO of CDSL. I've just joined CDSL on the 24th of September, so it's been around three weeks since I've taken over. I welcome you all to the quarterly conference call for discussing the standalone and consolidated results for the CDSL group for the quarter ended 30th September 2019. As you know that due to the overall slowdown and various uncertainties in the Indian economy, global factors like trade war between U.S. and China, oil prices, et cetera, the Indian stock markets were in turmoil, which resulted in not many IPOs hitting the market whilst the overall sentiment has been muted. This has resulted in the CDSL top line showing a 10% downtrend on quarter-on-quarter and a marginal downtrend on a year-on-year basis.
Despite the slowdown in the economy, CDSL has been able to maintain a flat bottom line. CDSL continues to have a healthy operating profit margin of 47% on a consolidated basis and 46% on a standalone basis. The price-to-earnings ratio is about 19. During the QE September 2019, CDSL added around INR 8 lakh beneficiary ownership accounts as compared to INR 6.37 lakh in the previous quarter. CDSL now has an incremental market share of around 74% up to August 2019. In the case of CDSL Ventures, CVL, the KRA performance is linked to the stock market, which has also remained muted in the quarter which has ended. However, compared to that, we have around INR 1.99 crore KYC records as on September 2019. Whilst the corresponding number in June 2019 was INR 1.93 crore.
CDSL Insurance Repository has crossed 5.37 lakh e-Insurance accounts at about 2.73 lakh policies. CDSL Commodity Repository, CCRL, is also making steady progress with around 1,000 plus registered warehouse service providers, about 1,200 clients as on September 30th, 2019. I request my colleague, Mr. Bharat Sheth, CFO, to give a brief on the financial performance.
Good afternoon, everyone. The numbers stack up as follows. First, consolidated results on Q1, Q-on-Q basis, quarter-on-quarter basis and then year-on-year basis. Operational income for the quarter ended September 2019 was INR 53 crore against INR 58 crores for quarter ended June 2019, that is down by 10%, whereas other income is up by 11% from INR 15.02 crores to INR 16.68 crores. Total income overall down by 6% from INR 73.42 crores to INR 69.35 crores. Whereas my total expense is down 19%, that is from INR 38.44 crores to INR 31.13 crores. Mainly due to employee costs down by 21%, system maintenance up by 8% and other expenses down by 27%, mainly due to lower incremental expenditure on government projects.
Overall profit after tax is up by 4%, that is from INR 27.91 crore to INR 29.05 crore. Major head of operational income on quarter-on-quarter basis. Annual issue charges from INR 19.23 crore to INR 19.18 crore. That is hardly any change. Transaction charge is down by 7% from INR 9.86 crore to INR 9.16 crore. Consolidated Account Statement charges down by 14% from INR 2.37 crore to INR 2.03 crore. IPO corporate action charges down by 9%, that is INR 5.32 crore to INR 4.85 crore. Online data charges, that is KYC, up by 6% from INR 7.63 crore to INR 8.11 crore. Government projects down by 65% on quarter-on-quarter basis, that is INR 6.94 crore to INR 2.46 crore. On consolidated basis on year-on-year basis, that is quarter ending September 2019 to quarter ending September 2018.
Operational income down by 2%, that is from INR 53.66 crore to INR 52.66 crore. Other income up by 71%, that is from INR 9.79 crore to INR 16.69 crore due to higher mark-to-market gain and IT refund of INR 2.2 crore received. Total income up by 9%, that is from INR 63.46 crore to INR 69.35 crore. Whereas total expenses up by 35%, that is INR 23 crore to INR 31 crore. Up 35% mainly due to increase in employee cost, salary revision by 35% to bring the salary levels to market levels and corresponding gratuity and leave actuarial provisions and other expenses increased by 49%, mainly due to expected credit loss provision, that is provision for doubtful debts of INR 2.40 lakh. My profit after tax down by 4%, that is from INR 30.15 crore to INR 29.06 crore.
Major head of operational income, that is annual issuer charges from quarter ending September 2018, INR 15.96 crore, it went up to INR 19.18 crores, that is up by 20%. Transaction charges down by 11% because of bad market conditions, INR 10.26 crore-INR 9.16 crores. Consolidated account statement charges up by 13%, that is INR 1.8 crores-INR 2.02 crores. IPO corporate action charges because of market condition, less number of IPOs down by 21%, that is INR 6.15 crore-INR 4.85 crores. Online data charges down, that is for KYC, INR 10.17 crores-INR 8.11 crores. Government project for quarter ending September 2019, up by INR 2.45 crores, against its up by 100%. On standalone basis, that is quarter-over-quarter, quarter ending September 2019 versus quarter ending June 2019. There are hardly any change in operational income, that is INR 40.53 crore in June 2019 versus INR 40.59 crores in September 2019.
Other income is 6% up due to mark-to-market gain, that is INR 11.31 crore to INR 11.98 crores. That is total income up marginally by 1%, hardly any change, that is INR 51.85 crore to INR 52.57 crores. Whereas total expenses down 10%, mainly due to employee cost down by 23%, system maintenance up by 6%, that is INR 26.84 crore to INR 24.10 crores. Profit after tax up by INR 20.35 crores to INR 21.95 crores. Major head of operational income, annual issuer charges on quarter-on-quarter basis, that is INR 19.23 crore to INR 19.19 crore, hardly any change. Transaction charges down by 7%, that is INR 9.87 crore to INR 9.16 crores. CAS charges down by 14%, that is INR 2.37 crore to INR 2.02 crores. Whereas IPO corporate action charges are INR 5.32 crores to INR 4.85 crore, that is down by 9%.
Whereas on year-on-year basis, that is quarter ending September 2019 to quarter ending September 2018, operational income hardly any difference, that is down by 1%, that is INR 40.98 crore to INR 40.59 crores. Whereas other income up 66% due to interest on IT refund and higher mark-to-market gain, that is from INR 7.22 crore to INR 11.98 crores. Total income up by 9%, that is INR 48.2 crore to INR 52.5 crores. Whereas my total expense is up 30%, mainly due to increase in employee cost by 32% and other expenses 51% increase in expected credit loss, that is a provision for doubtful debts. It was not there last time. That is INR 2.43 crores. That is from INR 18.16 crores to INR 24.10 crores. Profit after tax down by 1%, that is INR 22.09 crore to INR 21.95 crores. Major head of operational income, that is annual issuer charges INR 15.95 crore to INR 19.18 crore, that is up by 20%.
Transaction charges down 11% due to market condition, that is INR 10.26 crore to INR 9.16 crore. Consolidated Account Statement charges from INR 1.80 crore to INR 2.02 crore up by 13%. IPO corporate action down by 21%, that is INR 6.16 crore to INR 4.85 crore. With this, I leave the floor open for questions and answers.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. A reminder, you may press star and one to ask question. The first question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anvit Portfolio Management Services. Please go ahead.
Thanks for taking my question. I had two questions. If I look at the first half employee cost, they are up 56%. I think last quarter you had mentioned some impact of gratuity and annuity. Is that continuing in the current quarter also? For H2 basis, what is the trend in employee cost? How should we read this? Will it be more like a INR 12 crore-INR 13 crore kind of run rate? Do we annualize it'll be more like INR 40 crore-INR 42 crore or it'll be more like INR 50 crore on the employee cost front?
Hello, Mr. Prakash. If you see, last quarter also I have told that impact of 32% increase, that is 25% plus 7% annual increment, would be on first quarter more because of actuarial gain, actuarial liability as well as leave encashment and all. Major impact would come on that quarter only. If you see my INR 8.37 crore means it was there INR 14.27 crore in quarter ended June 2019. It went down to INR 11.33 crore. That is down by 21% because of this actuarial liability as well as that. It won't be there on what we call on quarter-on-quarter basis. Whatever impact was there as on 31st March 2019 on which we have provided on first quarter only. Incremental only would be there in quarter-on-quarter basis.
This will be more like this run rate rather than what.
Yeah.
If I look at CDSL Ventures in the revenue reported in the segment revenue. Revenues have degrown for us on a year-on-year basis. How do I look at this? At a time when SIP accounts are growing, flows are steady, so is there some change in pricing? Is there some market share change? The segment revenue includes other income and other income is lesser in this segment.
if I look at that segment, revenues have actually degrown from INR 138 million to INR 130 million.
Yeah. This is mainly because of other project, that government project what we took it. If you see quarter four 2019, means March 2019 quarter, there other income, means other project income was around INR two and a half crore. In June 2019, it was around INR 9 crore. In this quarter INR 2.45 crore, mainly due to that. That is of one-off project is there.
Okay. Q1, you said it was around INR 99 crores.
Yeah.
Last year, what was it?
2.5 crores around.
Okay. Last year.
Last quarter on this. Quarter ended March 2019.
Yeah, I was looking, Bharat bhai-
Mr. Kapadia, sorry to interrupt you. You're not audible. Can you please speak a bit louder?
I was looking, Bharat bhai, on a year-on-year basis, where I'm comparing September last year versus September this year, where it says 138 million to 130 million.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Where data entry and storage has decreased from INR 138 million to INR 130 million. I was trying to understand that. Not on a sequential basis where you mentioned the government project and that contribution to revenues has fallen. Revenues are down sequentially from INR 17 crores to INR 13 crores.
The number of KYCs processed by CVL as compared to last half year has gone up, but the number of fetches, okay, where we also get some revenue, has gone down. That is primarily because last year SEBI had mandated that all AMCs who had not fetched certain KYCs, they had to fetch the KYCs, otherwise the distributor commissions would not be paid. Because of that, many of the AMCs had a one-time fetch. That had boosted up the numbers last year.
Okay. Sunil, the way to understand this is, that is more of a one-time this thing which was there in the base last year, and there is no change-
That's right.
in market share or pricing in terms of our KYC business.
Yeah. There are two things to it. As compared to last year, we have processed more KYCs this year. That is new KYCs into the system.
That new KYC has to give us better pricing, right?
What has happened is correspondingly, the fetches have gone down. That has reduced the income.
Understood. The last question from my side is there clarity on the Academic Depository pricing? Government was to revert and we were to start billing, so any update on that?
We are in discussion with the MHRD. They have formed a committee, and they would be deciding on the pricing. That is the latest what we have.
Thanks. I'll come back if I have more questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Anand Bhavnani from Unifi Capital Private Limited. Please go ahead.
I have three questions. Sir, the first question is on the INR 2.4 crore provision for doubtful debts. Can you elaborate on it? Is it some kind of investments that have gone bad?
Yes. Then?
Yes. I mean, the questions are unrelated, so I want to go one by one.
Okay. About doubtful debts, that is on annual issuer charges. Generally, we'll be able to recover around 92%-93%. 7%-8%, we have to provide for doubtful debts or bad debts. Generally, we were doing in third or fourth quarter, but this year auditor told us that you have to prorate it for all four quarters. Because of that, if you compare with six months ended September 2018 versus September 2019, major cost of that INR 4 crores total what we have provided.
Okay. Similar INR 4 crore can be expected in the H2?
Yes. That would be around INR 7.5 crores-INR 8 crores. That is it.
Sure. Sir, if I were to look at segment assets and liabilities.
For repository, there has been a fall in segment assets, and for depository activity, there has been rise in segment liabilities. If you can help us understand why is it so?
No. Segment assets and liability, one minute.
Sir, if you are to see, for repository activity.
It has fallen from INR 55.67 crore to INR 32 crore.
No, that is. If you see that is segment assets. That is because of new assets what we bought it, and not major changes are there according.
No, it has fallen by INR 23 crore. Why would it fall by INR 23 crore in six months? Depository assets.
Okay. I will get back to you on this question.
Similarly, if you are to see depository liabilities.
Yes.
They have risen by close to INR 46 crores.
Why would they rise by ₹46 crores in a span of six months?
No, if you see, for annual income, we are allocating on a pro rata basis. Annual income is, suppose my INR 80 crore is there, then I can book it INR 40 crores and income received in advance will come to INR 40 crores. It will come under liability, like that.
Okay. It's unearned revenue and hence the liability.
Yes. Like that, on that basis.
Yes. Sir, you gave out certain details in terms of numbers for our revenues. I just wanted to check if we receive a presentation or the numbers given are only on the con call. Have you received a presentation in general to the shareholder?
Not yet. On con call basis also we can give you.
Sir, just a modest and humble request from us, that the numbers that you give are very important in terms of understanding the business.
If you are to give us in the presentation beforehand, the discussion would be a lot more detailed around the numbers. Otherwise, the numbers that you throw up initially, then we have follow-up questions, we have to email you.
Definitely.
Just consider.
I think we will. We will surely take this as a feedback and from next quarter call onwards, we will do that.
Lastly, we spoke about the environment being subdued. Is it fair to assume that the environment continues to be subdued and in terms of next six months as well, we might not see any deviation upside or downside in our revenues and profitability?
That's a very difficult question to predict. It's like predicting whether the market is going to go up or down tomorrow. It's a function of market. We are a market infrastructure institution. Our core business is to provide the requisite infrastructure for the securities market. We are a function of ensuring that the services are readily available, and we have as many depository participants which have grown and have been steadily growing. Whether that will lead to further transactions is a function of markets, which is a collective response of the entire market and be difficult to predict.
Sure. My question was more of like, do we have any specific revenue stream? For example, the depository business for MHRD. Anything similar which can be commercialized this year and we might see any revenue inflow from there, any potential growth from those set of newer ventures?
I think SEBI has been giving out a lot of proposals for new products, new kinds of asset classes, and there is a general push on the digital side. Obviously the importance of the depository services are going to grow as we move forward. It'll be difficult to categorize quarter-wise in terms of revenue. The overall trend is more assets moving from the physical more to the digital world, and therefore the importance of the depository services are going to grow as time passes.
Okay. Thank you, sir. I'll come back in a few.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Aarti Shah from Reliance Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. I just want to get a sense or give an idea of the number of unlisted companies now that are there in your fold. I think last quarter it was about 2,000 odd, somewhere in that range. The revenue that you have essentially earned from that incremental unlisted companies.
As on 30th September, there are 2,530 unlisted companies are under our fold.
Okay. You added almost 500 in this quarter?
Yes, 463, what we have added.
Right. What was the revenue that you earned in this quarter?
Yes. It would be around INR 57 lakh, 32 thousand.
Okay. INR 57 lakhs in this quarter.
Okay, great. Any update on the NAD, National Academic Depository? I think from now on you can charge from this quarter onwards, right? If you could give any updates on that front, how is that progressing?
Yeah, we have been discussing with MHRD with regard to the charges, because we need the approval before we start charging. The latest is that they have formed a committee, and based on what is going to be our charges, they would be most likely giving a grant to both the depositories.
Okay, fair enough. How many are now in panel with you? I think last quarter was about 520 or something, in those universities and all. Is that right?
We have 541 universities signing agreement with us.
Okay. Thank you very much. I'll come back if I have any further queries. Thank you.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Yash Nirodkar from PPFAS Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good afternoon.
Good afternoon.
I have three questions basically, and these are on different topics, so I'll just go one by one.
The first thing is, in your financial statements for this quarter, I read something about Ind AS 116 being implemented. What is it regarding?
That is about the lease rental, what we are paying on that basis. That is, we are having a lease agreement with Reliance. That is a major one.
What is this regarding, lease rental?
That is for our DR site.
Okay.
This is where the servers are hosted.
How much are these expenses, the rentals which are being paid?
It is not material because they are providing services to us.
Okay.
We are evaluating it.
Okay. All right.
That's why we have mentioned in notes to accounts that we are evaluating it.
Okay.
Under lease as such, because bundled services they are providing.
All right. The second question which I had was on the recent notification which came out about the corporate taxes. What impact would it have for your company? If you could provide effective tax rate, if you all are going to utilize this benefit.
Correct. At present, we are in 25% bracket because less than INR 250 crore turnover is there.
Okay.
For this quarter and next quarter, we are going to continue with it because as on 31st March 2019, MAT credit is available to us.
Okay.
If we shift to 22%, then it won't be available. We are evaluating it, and later on by March, we are going to decide whether to go for a 22% bracket or this bracket. Overall effective tax rate comes to 22% to us.
All right.
On consolidated basis.
As of now, you're talking about you're taking the MAT credit?
Yeah. As of second.
You all are currently indifferent as to whether go for the current corporate tax rates or continue with the same?
Correct. MAT credit, if I want to avail, then I can go to 22% actually.
Okay. Just last question. You all had for the previous two quarters the government project. Last quarter you all booked somewhere around INR 9 crores. This quarter you all booked around INR 2.5 crores.
Yes.
Excluding that, what is the operating revenue?
Excluding that?
Yes.
In CDSL Venture? What you want, exactly?
No, not CDSL Ventures. Overall, I'm talking about the consolidated, excluding the government project.
11 crore excluding government.
Means you have to remove INR 11 crore and total INR 6.5 crore you have to remove. Overall, my profit down by INR 4 crore on consolidated basis.
The profit is down by INR 4 crore, you're saying?
The profit-
On this government project. My net profit is around, means gross profit will be around INR 4 crores.
Okay.
On a consolidated basis, my profit down by, that is I'm talking of profit before tax, down by INR 4 crores.
Okay.
Okay?
All right. Thanks a lot.
Thanks.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Jatin Damania from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Just going back to what you said, that in this financial year, though we have added number of more KRAs, the fetch on, I mean, the realization of the fetch was much lesser compared to the previous year, right?
Yes.
Sir, if I'm looking at the previous quarter where we had INR 1.93 crore of KYC records, revenue was from data online and storage was to the tune of INR 171 crore or INR 117 crore, which has declined to almost INR 13 crore. What was the reason for the sequential decline despite six lakh increase in the records?
That is mainly due to government projects. If you see in quarter one 2019, this June 2019, you will see my income from this government project is around INR 6 crore. It went down to INR 2.45 crore. That is a major difference of INR 4 crore.
Okay. Sir, do you think that our government project will still continue or the project is almost over?
We got an extension for one more year.
You got an extension for one more year.
That's it.
Sir, what is the cost pertaining to this project? Last quarter, we had a significant cost due to this, and because of this, our other expenses have also gone up.
Correct.
How was the situation in the second quarter?
See, first phase got over. Income we have booked and expenses also we have booked.
Yes.
Now nothing left for first phase of the project.
Okay.
Second phase once starts, then income and expenses will come into picture.
Oh, okay, sir. Secondly, sir, can you help us with the e-voting revenue for this second quarter?
E-voting is INR 2.48 crores for the second quarter.
2.48 crores.
Yes.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. Next question is from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hello sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I would like to understand on the annual issue charges. Now we have been seeing that the companies that has been added has been slowing down in the last 2 quarters, and now we are at a rate of 150 companies per month. How do you see this panning out, whether it's an opportunity that was there initially and now it's eventually fading away, or you see more and more companies approaching? Because if I see in terms of the competition, they have been adding on a steady basis. Your views on that.
There also decline is there. Overall, if you see from 1st October 2018 to 30th September, around 2,530 companies, what we have added, it comes to, on an average basis, 210 companies. As you say rightly, that in quarter it has come down from 200 to 154.
All right.
Because it is not yet compulsory.
Okay.
Whenever transaction takes place, then only. It is not mandatory.
until it becomes mandatory.
Okay.
Our marketing efforts are going on.
My next question was on that, sir. That last quarter you mentioned that you are providing some kind of commission to the RTA for bringing the company to CDSL. What's the progress on that? Are you spending aggressively on that or no?
No. We have started from 1st August. 1st September, we already started that referral fees, what we are incurring.
We are also trying to enhance the system so that digitization takes place and we get online applications, and we hope that because of this initiative, there will be more inflow of companies into CDSL. We are planning to implement that.
Okay. Sir, on the revenues earned from the unlisted companies, last quarter it was around INR 15,000, in this quarter it's coming to around INR 11,500. There has been a drop. Has there been a change in the fees that you're charging?
No, nothing. Not changed. On quarter basis, yes.
When the admission of companies takes place, we charge them on pro rata basis, the annual issue fees for that particular year. Hence, as the quarters progress, the fees will get reduced even though companies get added.
On pro rata basis we are charging.
Okay.
Still our charges will be charged on pro rata.
Understood. Thank you. Sir, my last question would be on the government project. You mentioned that you have issued the extension, but you mentioned that there were around 4 crore accounts that has to be verified. How we are placed there, and how can we project the revenues from it, because it's very lumpy in nature.
There are 4.5 crore investors, when the scheme was open for refund, about 1.5 crore investors have applied. That is the status right now.
The scheme was supposed to have two phases, phase A and phase B. Okay? We have completed phase A, and the regulator will have to take a call on phase B, whether they want to implement it or not. That's the status right now.
Okay, sir. Sir, lastly, on the opportunities in terms of the National Academic Depository and the e-warehouse receipts opportunity. The progress on that has been pretty slow. Are we seeing any kind of pickup there in terms of NAD and e-warehouse receipts? If you can elaborate that, how we are approaching that.
If you see in terms of number of records on the NAD, we have crossed about 2.3 crore records. Even the number of students registered is going up by the day. It is just a function for MHRD to make it mandatory for all universities and students, and then you can really see it taking off.
Okay. As of now, we're not charging anything. Earlier you said that charging can start by September. Any update on that?
Yes. As per the agreement, we were supposed to charge post September 2019. After discussions with MHRD and the UGC, they are not very keen that the universities and students we charge. At best, they are thinking of giving us a grant so that the project continues in its current form.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thanks for the opportunity.
Thank you very much. Next question is from the line of Pawan Kumar from RatnaTraya Capital Partners . Please go ahead.
Sir, you mentioned about around INR 2.5 crores of revenues from the government project this particular quarter. What are the expense pertaining to that? Number 2, since you are also mentioning about an extension in this project, how would the revenues play out, I mean, from this particular project over next one year?
Expenses pertains to government project for this quarter, around INR 27 lakh is there.
27 lakh?
Yeah.
Okay. Do you expect this run rate to continue going forward every quarter from now on?
Phase 1 is already completed. For which we have already booked the income as well as expenses. Once phase 2 will start, further income and expenses will come into picture.
Okay. Overall, what would be the revenue potential of this project from the next one year?
Difficult to predict actually because we do not know whether the window will be open again for investors to apply for a refund. It all depends on that.
Okay, sir. If given the window didn't open again, then what would be the potential?
No, we cannot really predict anything on that.
Okay. On the other expenses part of it, I'm taking the employee expenses off, but should the Q2 other expenses part of it when you deduct the employee expenses, whatever, is that going to be a steady run rate from now on Q3 and Q4?
Yes, it would be on a steady.
Okay. Okay, sir. Fine.
Thank you very much. Next question is from the line of Rohit Balakrishnan from Vidhi Capital Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Hello.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir.
Good afternoon.
Sir, I had three or four questions. Sir, in terms of our annual issue charges, if I get the number right, it's around INR 19 crores, and it has grown at a very good rate this quarter on a YOY basis. What is driving this growth? Even last year, the growth was quite good. If you can just speak a bit about that, sir.
See, our annual issue charge is based on either on a slab basis that is capital basis or number of folios, whichever is higher. If you compare with last year, with this year, income from number of folios are more compared to last year because of that. More number of IPOs and corporate because of that new issuer admitted in the system.
Got it. Sir, in this, we usually have a price revision as per SEBI. Is that due anytime soon?
In 2015, they have increased the tariff, so now it is due means every four to five years, both the depositories will go. Now it is due. Next year, definitely we'll go to SEBI, and we'll ask for the increase.
Okay, got it. Sir, the second question was, in our IPO and corporate action charges, what would be the mix between IPO and corporate action? I mean, if you have to split between these two, what would be the revenue mix broadly?
It won't be possible to give us those figures. It's confidential. I can't give those figures.
At least what I wanted to understand is that in an environment like what we've been seeing in the last two, three quarters or even more, where IPOs are sort of not coming forth, companies are not coming forth with their IPO. What would be the steady state revenue for this kind of a business? Corporate action would still be happening and buybacks and splits and all those things would continue to happen.
If you say-
Do you think you can give me a very broad idea? I don't want exact numbers.
I can give you overall picture. In March 2018, IPO corporate action charges total income was around INR 29 crore. It went down from March 2019 to INR 19 crore or INR 20 crore. Now it is in similar line only, if you see six monthly results, it is down by INR 1 crore. It depends on number of IPO. If you see that PRIME Directory, that last year it was INR 92,000 crore what IPOs there, it has down to INR 46,000 crore. That depends on the market.
Right. Actually that was the question, sir. This INR 18 crore-INR 20 crore of run rate on this IPO and corporate in an environment like today where there are hardly any IPOs that are coming, you think that is broadly sustainable?
IPO and corporate action charges are intermingled.
Yeah.
It becomes very difficult to give towards IPO how much and towards corporate action how much. On application also we are charging and allotment also charges. That co-mingle as such.
Sir, if there are no IPOs, then there would be no applications also for you to charge, right? In that sense, whatever revenue that you've been earning in the last couple of quarters, that would be hardly any IPO, right? Because there have been hardly two IPOs in the last two, three quarters.
Yeah. Theoretically, yes. That's one way of looking at it, yes.
Got it. Sir, the other question was on the CDSL Ventures. A couple of quarters back, SEBI had come out with a regulation where except telecom and I think one more entity, you could not use the Aadhaar to directly do the KYC. Since then also we've been able to sort of grow that part of business. It's not at a very good rate, but at least steadily. Do you see any impact further? I mean, just wanted to hear your views on that. I mean, how is the ecosystem coping with that?
Currently we are not allowed to do e-KYC using Aadhaar post the Supreme Court verdict. Subsequent to that, there has been a circular from the Ministry of Finance that in case we want to do e-KYC, we have to approach UIDAI through our regulators SEBI. Once UIDAI gives it approval, they will notify the government and permit us as capital market intermediaries to do e-KYC. We have done all of that. We have approached our regulator. Our regulator has approached UIDAI to permit us to do e-KYC.
Are we allowed at this point of time?
As of now we have not yet received the approval.
That was the question, sir. You've still been able to maintain the revenues. Some of it is, I think, is because of the government project also. If you x that, how has that business shaped up for us? While we maintain our market share, has that overall pie has de-grown in the overall market?
For all players in the market, e-KYC is a problem because they are not allowed to use it right now post the Supreme Court verdict. UIDAI has introduced something called an offline e-KYC, which we have introduced for some of our clients, where I do not require specific UIDAI approval to go live on that.
Okay. This approval you are expecting anytime soon or, I mean, any comments on that from UIDAI?
All I can say it is in a very advanced stage with the UIDAI.
Okay. Sir, the last question from my side is on the utilization of cash. While we have a good payout ratio, but I think if you look at some of the other similar kind of businesses, there is a room for payout ratios to go even higher. I mean, any comments on that? If you can maybe lay out what is your thinking and what is the thinking at the board level.
We are a market infrastructure institution. Its licenses which we get for various products. Financial resiliency in terms of cash balances becomes an important component when that license is granted. While we ensure that there is a high payout ratio so that whatever is earned as the operating income gets paid out to the shareholders, there is also a need to keep a sufficient amount of optimum cash balances to show the overall financial health of the company, which is necessary for future growth of the business.
Right, sir. I think if I get the numbers right, we have about INR 700 crore, INR 720 crore of cash on the books at this point of time. We have, I think, around INR 300 crore of regulatory cash requirement. In that sense, we have excess of INR 500 crore as cash, which can be used for our overall shoring up of our financial resilience. Anything incrementally that we are earning, because there is no incremental requirement in terms of CapEx or anything. Just on that, I think we were close to 40% on a consolidated basis. On that earning, do you think that this is optimum, or is there a possibility of this increasing?
Even the subsidiaries, you should not only look at the requirement that regulatory capital of CDSL has as a parent, but also our subsidiaries like CVL, et cetera, would require a sufficient amount of regulatory capital, be it NAD or be it.
government venture
CVL venture and the government projects which we are getting. This becomes a very important component when government projects, which are large in size, which would get awarded to us. I think what we have stated earlier is that the operating income, we will be maintaining a high amount of payout ratio. I think the current cash levels are necessary, keeping in mind some of the future ventures which are expected to come.
sir, what is?
Sorry to interrupt you. I'll request you to come back in the question queue for a follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Hiten Jain from Invesco Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
This quarter, I think you gave that number. What was provisions for doubtful debt this quarter?
This quarter, INR 2.45 crore. INR 2.24 crore, yes.
Okay. If I add, so previous quarter it was 1.6 and now.
Total INR 4 crores.
Yeah, total INR 4 crores. Last few years, as I see the data, we used to have provisions for doubtful debt in the range of INR 2 crores to INR 3 crores for the full year.
No, even last year, provision for doubtful debt was INR 4.95 crore.
Okay.
Impact of, there you have to see bad debt as well as provision for doubtful debts. Overall impact would be around INR 3 crore.
Yeah.
This line item, impairment loss allowance on trade receivable, in FY 2019, we had INR 2.93 crores.
Correct. Here, if you see, last year my income was INR 66 crore from annual issuer charges. It went up to INR 80 crore. Similarly, doubtful debt also increases.
You're saying for the first half it is four, and for second half also we should annualize it. For the full year, we should expect INR eight crores.
No. See, that is around 75%-80% I'm getting in first two quarters. 84% already we recovered. Now only 16% we have to recover. It depends on our recovery. As what expected credit loss policy, we have to do it under Ind AS.
You are saying the second half would have a lower provisions for doubtful debt compared to first half as per the Ind AS policy?
Possibly, probably. Otherwise it is INR 8 crores, what you meant to say.
Okay. That means whenever your annual issuer charges goes up meaningfully, you would also have provisions for doubtful debt?
Yeah, that is true.
Okay. All right. Okay, thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. As there are no further questions, I will now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
I think as I stated earlier, I've just joined around three weeks ago. We are in the business of a market infrastructure institution. Whilst part of our revenue is dependent on the movement of the markets, really overall, it is the technology spend as well as the quality of our service which is going to ensure, also distribution network, which is critical to our business. We have around 606 depository participants, vis-à-vis our competition at around 280. I think that will become a critical portion as we move forward. The general government's push to move physically into a digital mode is also going to become an important impetus to our business. Having said that, we need to continuously really invest in our technology, in our systems, and in our people to ensure that this module keeps on consistently going on.
I would like to wish all of you a very happy Diwali and a prosperous New Year, and thank you all for joining the call.
Thank you very much. On behalf of Axis Capital Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.