Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 and FY 2019 earnings conference call of CDSL hosted by Axis Capital Limited. As a reminder, all participants' lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aditya Bagul from Axis Capital. Thank you. Over to you, Mr. Bagul.
Thank you, Steven. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, to the Q4 and FY 2019 earnings call of CDSL India Limited. We have the management of CDSL today with us, represented by Mr. Bharat Sheth, our Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Gaurang Shah, Vice President, and Mr. Nilesh Kittur, Assistant Vice President. I request Mr. Bharat Sheth to give us a brief overview of the results. After which we will open the floor for a Q&A session. Over to you, sir.
discuss the results of Q4 and FY 2019. I am Bharat Sheth, CFO of the company, from Mumbai joining with my colleagues, Mr. Gaurang Shah, Nilesh Kittur, then Chief Operating Officer, Mr. Sunil Alvares from CDSL Ventures Limited, Mr. Nitin Ambure from operations side. Since our selection of Managing Director is under process. We management team available for you to discuss about the Q4 earnings. The CDSL standalone perspective. At the BO incremental level, we are maintaining a lead of 62%-63% incremental BO. At present, we are having a 1.73 crore BO accounts against 1.48 crores in March 2018. That is 25 lakh new accounts we opened during the FY 2018-2019. Compared to other depository, they open around 14 lakh new accounts. We are maintaining a lead of around 62% on a BO incremental level.
Though this year, compared to March 2018, is flat because of subdued market condition, transaction-based income down. Because of more number of folios generated, what you call that issuer income has increased. Issuer income has increased. Online data charges, that is KYC income has also increased, e-voting charges also increased. Overall is a flat year. Due to other income, that is income from investment, we have around overall increase in income of 8%, whereas operational income increased on a consolidated basis by 4%. Other income increased by 29% on year basis. Net profit after minority comes around 10%. Our income mainly depends on a capital market. If market is down, our income is also down. Due to last year, means March 2018 was exceptional year, it has been compensated by issuer income.
More number of folios generated by issuers income increased by around 31%. Issuer custodian charges. During this year, unlisted company also, there are around 1,400 new unlisted company has admitted in our fold. It gave us around INR 3 crore more income. Otherwise, expenses are, we have kept under control. Because of that, we are maintaining our profit. We have crossed, we are maintaining INR 112 crore net profit also. Regarding other projects, that is other subsidiaries, CDSL Ventures Limited, that is KYC income first compared to last year, we have increased operational income as well as profit after tax also, we are maintaining. First time we have crossed INR 25 crore profit also, we are maintaining it.
Other subsidiaries like CCRL and CVL also, other projects, that is virtual academic repositories are there, where 520 universities, means academic institution has joined and around 105 crore records also updated. 1.5 lakh records also updated in the system. Still, income has not started because after September only a verifier is given or we can charge to the institutional. Income after September 2019, only some income will flow. Whereas CDSL Insurance Repository, hardly any income is there. That is INR 35 lakh, INR 40 lakh income we have earned. CDSL Commodity Repository, around 712 service provider has joined out of 1,885 provider. Depository participants, around 150 has also joined and total. Hardly anything this year, but last quarter we have earned around INR 67 lakh from CCRL projects also. Now I will call this. This is open for question and answer.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, you may press star 1 on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star 2. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia from IIFL Portfolio Management Services. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. My line got disconnected. You were mentioning about the new MD and the line got disconnected. By when do you think,
That selection process is under progress.
Okay.
Yeah.
By when would this?
That is by quarter end, that means 30th June, everything will be in place.
Okay, fine. If you could share the revenue breakup for the quarter versus last quarter of fee items, transaction, annual issuer.
Yeah.
CS, IPO.
Yeah. I can start now. That is on consolidated results.
Yeah.
Q4 March 2019 versus Q3 December 2018.
Q4 will be better, sir.
You want-
Q4 versus Q4. Transaction charges, actual issue charges.
You want Q4 versus Q3 only, no? That is it.
Q4 versus Q4 of last year. Q3 though you had given last time. Current quarter versus Q4 of last year. Q4 versus Q4.
Okay. Annual issuer charges from INR 14.64 crore, it went up to INR 17.92 crore . That is increased by.
17.92 crore.
22%. Transaction charges from INR 11.88 crore to INR 9.83 crore, down by 17%. User charges, hardly any changes are there. I am giving figures wherever major changes are there. IPO corporate action charges, INR 7.6 crore. It is down to INR 4.16 crore. That is 45% down. Online data charges from INR 8.43 crore to INR 7.52 crore. That is 11% down. This year, one document verification charges, one-time charges are there that is around INR 2.65 crore we have earned in CVL. These are the major. Overall, quarter ended March 2018 versus March 2019, from INR 59.93 crore to INR 50.54 crore, there is 1% increase is there.
Do you have the consolidated eCAS charge with you, MD?
Consolidated demat charges or cash charges?
Yeah, cash charges.
eCAS charges, 166-189. That is INR 1.68 crore to INR 1.89 crore.
Okay, that is cool. Fine. If I look at the profit jump, there has been a sharp jump. Is there some one-time gain due to FMP maturity or what is this which has led to this jump?
There is appreciation in the value of FMP, mark to market. Around INR 21 crore is there altogether. On the quarter-over-quarter basis, from INR 12 crore to INR 18 crore is there.
If I read it rightly, INR 99 million to INR 177 million, that's an 80% jump. Out of this, how much would be mark to market?
Around INR 21 crore. That way. Since all the investments are in fixed income security, they have, as per the contracted rate, the accrual will always be there. Because of movement in bond prices, either positive or negative side, there will be appreciation or depreciation. That incremental appreciation because of movement in bond prices is around INR 2 crore.
Okay, INR 2 crore for the quarter.
Yes.
Do you have it for the full year?
That is INR 2 crore for the year.
Okay, INR 2 crore.
That is the incremental because at a contract rate, accrual will always be there since it is a fixed income portfolio.
Right. This year, Dinesh, we've seen the tax rate being lower than last year. What would that be on account of? I think effective tax rate is around 23%.
23% around.
Yeah.
No, because of this capital gain and tax rate only, nothing. Last year also, 25 plus surcharge and tax was there, and this year also same. Tax rate is same, but more appreciation was there compared to last year, so more exempt income built.
Okay. It is mark to market and this has a larger contribution, so the effective rate is much lower.
Yes.
On the KYC business, I think last year we were around 17 million accounts. If you could share some of the progress in terms of market share, how is the new system post Aadhaar working? Is the QR code shared? What are we seeing?
Yeah.
Where are we in terms of number of accounts on the KYC business?
Mr. Sunil Alvares is here. He's the Chief Operating Officer of CDSL Ventures Limited . He will throw some light on it.
Okay.
In terms of KYC business, we are close to about 1.9 crore accounts.
Okay.
Exactly, it is 1.88 crore accounts. The second question, where are we going with regard to Aadhaar? After the Supreme Court verdict on Aadhaar-based KYC, only direct benefit schemes were allowed to do e-KYC. Subsequently, they had the modifications in the ordinance.
Okay.
Amendments to the ordinance. Banks and telecom companies have been permitted to do e-KYC. In the meanwhile, UIDAI has also introduced offline e-KYC using QR code, and we are in the process of integrating those into our systems, where we will be offering that as a service to customers.
Okay. The way it'll work is, they'll have to give a consent, and based on that, you will retrieve the data and put it into the system?
Either online or offline, the customer has to give his consent to fetch his KYC from Aadhaar. Online through an AUAA, anyway, he has to give an consent. Offline, when he goes to UIDAI site, he has to give the consent on UIDAI site.
Okay.
Either way, consent is mandatory.
Okay. Be it online or offline. Okay. Any sense, Sunil, on market share or competitive side? Because a few quarters ago, we had seen some challenges.
Our share is about 60% because the other KRA don't publish these figures anywhere. This is what we know when you speak to the customers that our market share is about 60%.
Sure. That is helpful. Lastly, anything on pricing of NAD? How will that business model work? Is government given some kind of indication of what kind of pricing the universities will pay?
We are looking at two methods of pricing. One is to charge for record uploaded by the university, and the second charge would be on the verifier whenever he verifies the record. What that amount exactly would be, that would be determined by MHRD in September 2019.
Okay. Before the actual monetization, then only we'll have some clue.
That's it.
Okay. Thank you. I'll come back in the queue for more questions.
You're welcome. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pritesh Chheda from Kotak Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Yeah, sir, in your breakup, if you could give what is the e-voting and KYC for quarter four of 2019 and quarter four of 2018, the revenue.
E-voting breakup, INR 76 lakhs in quarter 2018, Q4 2018 versus INR 71 lakhs in quarter four 2019.
Okay. KYC?
KYC from INR 8.44 lakhs to INR 7.53 lakhs.
INR 7.53 crores versus INR 8.44 crores last year.
Correct.
Right. The same breakup, if you could give for full year FY 2019 over FY 2018, transaction, issuer, e-voting, RTO corporate action, KYC.
Yes. One minute. E-voting, it was INR 4.09 crore in Q4 2018 versus INR 5.06 crore in Q4 2019.
No, full year.
Full year, sorry.
e-voting charges, just now Sunil said.
That is the full year.
4 point-
What else you wanted?
Sorry. Sir, I got confused. You said 4.8 versus?
5.06.
Okay. You give for full year, full breakup. Transaction, issuer, e-voting, RTO corporate, KYC, all the four here.
Yes, sir. All the four I am giving you, annual issuer charges-
Yeah
from INR 55.6 crore to INR 67.16 crore.
55.6 crore-INR 67.2 crore. Okay.
67.16.
Okay. Transaction charges from INR 44 crore-INR 39.37 crore. INR 39.37 crore. Okay. e-voting charges just now given, INR 4.09 crore-INR 5.06 crore. INR 4.06 crore is for this year? INR 4.06 crore for this year. This year, yeah. Okay. INR 4.9 crore for last year. INR 4.09 crore. INR 4.09 crore, sorry. Okay. Okay. Cash charges, consolidated account charges, statement charges, that is INR 6.43 crore-INR 7.96 crore. INR 7.96 crore, versus? INR 6.43 crore versus INR 7.96 crore. INR 6.43 crore versus INR 7.96 crore. Okay. This year it is INR 6.43 crore. No, no. Last year. I am giving you for FY 2018 versus FY 2019, I'm giving you. Okay. FY 2018, INR 6.43 crore versus INR 7.96 crore. Okay. FY 2018 for corporate action charges, IPO, INR 29.49 crore against INR 19.38 crore. Okay. KYC, that is online data charges, CVL income, INR 29.18 crore-INR 31.68 crore. Okay. These are the major. Is it fair to assume that what is linked to market activity is transaction charges and IPO corporate action charges? Mm-hmm.
Is down. That is linked to market activities. Others are not linked so much. That is issuer charges, e-voting, and KYC. Correct. All right. Your subsidiary of KYC is this KYC number, right? You have a subsidiary of. Yeah, CDSL Ventures also INR 29 crore versus INR 32 crore. That is INR 31.68 crore. It gets reflected here. That is already reflected. Okay. Again, I'm repeating, what depends on market activity is transaction and issuer, or transaction and IPO corporate. Correct. To a large extent, even KYC. Even KYC. KYC would be linked to your mutual fund KYC and all those, right? Absolutely. Okay. Now issuer charges will be broadly linked to the number of companies listed on the exchange. If number of companies listed on the exchange keeps on growing, the issuer charges keeps on growing. Correct. e-voting charges keeps on growing. Correct.
Those are all linked to your number of companies listed into the system. That's right. Admitted with the depository. Unlisted company also come into play, no? Unlisted company. That INR 3 crore of one listed company income that you generated for full year, that will get reflected in the issuer charges and the e-voting charges. IPO charges only. Issuer charges. Unlisted companies don't vote. Don't have e-voting. Sorry. It will get reflected in issuer charges. Absolutely. If that's the analysis, if you have to hazard a guess on growth rate next year. Mm-hmm. What should be your revenue growth rate in your best case assessment? We can't give you forward-looking statements. Even if you see last four years, my operational income on a consolidated basis, we are working at a 17% CAGR of last four years operational income.
Whereas my total expenses increased by 10% for four years CAGR. Profit after tax on a consolidated basis for four years CAGR is 17%. It did grow. You are saying a growth rate again. What is the cash in the balance sheet? Cash in the balance sheet, on consolidated basis, around INR 670 crore roughly. What is the regulatory requirement in this? Around INR 300 crore. Regulatory is INR 300 crore. Lastly, on your new ventures, you mentioned the updates on new venture, which is CDSL Insurance. You mentioned INR 50 lakh of revenue is what you recorded in FY 2019. That is what. Right. CDSL Commodity, you recorded INR 60 lakh of revenue for FY 2019. Only, yeah. Operational, yeah. That is. Yeah, revenue. Any revenue you recorded on the education side? Those certificate. No. It is very negligible. Negligible. Any revenue recorded on your GST side?
Yes, about INR 60 lakh. INR 60 lakh. All these three was first year of operation, right? That is right. All these three ventures, insurance, National Academic Depository, we are doing pro bono work right now till September 2019. It has been on operation for almost seven to eight years. Which one? We officially launched about two years back. Which one? Academic? That is right. No, but the GST, commodity, and insurance, these were all first year, right? GST is under CDSL Ventures. That is one of the project under CDSL Ventures. It is such. Okay. But I am just saying it was first year of operations. Am I wrong? No, that is second year. It was second year. Yes. Okay. These operations, what will be the scale-up possible in FY 2020 and 2021? If you could just give that. No. That, we cannot give anything about it. No forward-looking statement. Okay. Okay, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Girish Dada from K.M. Visaria Family Trust . Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hello, Girish. Sir, you mentioned in your initial remarks that the group has some one-time verification charge. I believe recorded in CVL.
Correct.
What was the nature of this transaction? Is it a one-time or next time also, next year also we can have at some point this time this charge?
Next time as well. Next time also there. One of the government project is there, in which one-time job they have given to us. That verification of the documents and all that for that year.
Okay. Ideally should we assume that the entire large part of that money has been flown to EBITDA also because the direct costs associated with the project must be very low?
Yes. Not very high. We assume, yeah, about the cost should be not more than 50%.
50%. When I look at the. Okay. When you're given charge of INR 7.53 and INR 225, this makes it about INR 10.4, while your CVL revenue was about INR 12.7.
Yes.
The EBITDA has also gone up in the similar fashion and sharp jump on CVL EBITDA.
Yes.
Okay. Second, in terms of your yield. Normally as you mentioned, the draft is a tax-free instrument. What should the yield we should assume?
On cash?
On the cash.
Yeah. Around 7.3%.
7%?
7.5 to 7.75.
Okay, 7.5 to 7.75. Lastly, you must be also hearing lot of things in terms of the FMC exposure. Do we also have to, like as an investor, we need to worry about that? Is there any instrument where we might have to see any mark to market or all our instruments are in a very AAA kind of a rated instrument there?
No. We have a AAA rated customer. As of now, there are no such issues.
Do you have a fear also that might be something in future?
No, we don't think. In most of the cases it is a clean portfolio.
Okay. Sure, sir. Thanks a lot from my side.
Thank you.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to the participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question, you may press star and one. The next question is from the line of Harish Yard, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, team.
Good afternoon.
I have one suggestion to you, sir, that lot of participants been asking lot of data point information, detailing of what your income made of and all those things.
My small suggestion, if you can give on quarterly basis, along with the result, some type of presentation or the press release where all those detailings are given, that will be more clear to everybody to understand. While the oral communication, some of the information may not be directly digested and understood by the investor. I'll appreciate if you can give some of the data points via presentation or a press release along with the result. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of [Majib Henri] from William Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon. You said that your regulatory requirement is INR 300 crore. Can you define which all areas and what capital you require?
INR 100 crore for CBS will be required. For CVL, around INR 75 crore we require. CCRL INR 50 crore we require. CRL INR 30 crore we require. Some of the government projects also we have to keep bank guarantee and all, for that also we require. INR 27 crore for DP deposits are there for that year to make.
This takes care of your business requirement for next three or four years.
No. If new projects will come, we'll definitely be required for that.
Which project you're talking about?
All government projects are there, their requirements are there. Network requirement and all.
Can you define the government projects? Which projects are we talking about?
Like this National Academic Depository.
Yeah.
Other future also will come. We have to keep.
Okay, sir, I fail to understand that there's a huge disservice to the shareholders by keeping the INR 670 crore worth of cash on the books, which is yielding 7%. I fail to understand that why we need to have a INR 670 crore and which would depress the return on capital employed of our business substantially. Is there a motivation and what would be motivation, if you could explain us in detail? Assuming after INR 300 crore, you have a cash generation of INR 100 crore each year, and maybe you pay some dividend also. Apart from that cash keeps on piling up, which depresses the return ratios for our company. What is the motivation of keeping that future in mind that there'll be some project which come, it'll generate a lot of cash.
Why we should not resort to a very special one-time dividend or for a buyback?
If you see our dividend policy, it's a consistent dividend policy. This year also we have declared, last year it was 35%, this year 40%, it comes to 60% payout ratio of standalone profit, et cetera. If you see, my income depends on a market. If market is not good, my income is down. Given that, we are maintaining that consistent dividend policy. About your special dividend and as well as buyback of shares
It is under consideration by the management, means by the board of directors.
Sure.
I can update. Okay?
How can you say, are we waiting for some catalyst for this? There is a clear merit in terms of the kind of ROC which is getting depressed because of the excess cash in the books. I appreciate it, not only record for the new ventures and for the Unless, until we take some other growth kind of initiatives in this process.
Yeah, definitely. We'll look into it.
Sure. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahil Jasani from ICICI Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. In terms of the segment information, we classify the segment into depository activity and also data entry and storage. I wanted to know what is the exact nature of data entry and storage, because this quarter I see that it has increased sequentially very substantially from around INR 8.5 crore last year to around INR 12 crore this quarter. What has been the catalyst for this increase and what is the exact nature of this?
There are two major segments. One is depository services, that is CDSL income, and other is KYC and document verification charges. It comes under CDSL Ventures. In this quarter, because of this document one-time charges that what we have received around INR 2.85 crore. Because of that, it has come under document verification charges, that is KYC.
Okay, got it. One-time charges were included. How long do you expect these charges to continue, the one-time job which you have been given?
No, in current quarter, means June quarter, it will be there.
Okay.
That is one-time job.
Not after that?
Yeah.
Got it. Okay. Yeah, that's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sriram Srinivasan from KSEMA Wealth Management . Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir.
Good evening.
In terms of annual listings, actually, we have been tracking on numbers about the total number of companies which is available for dematerialization.
As on March 25th, 2019, it was almost 12,100 companies. Now, the percentages have been updated to almost 13,000 companies. Even I hear about the ROC list of companies have been managed and that public unlisted companies who are all going for any kind of transaction, they have to get dematerialized. Is that right?
Correct.
Yeah. In terms that it shows that the 1,000 companies in a month. What will be the total number of companies that we can expect to be add on in a particular year?
No. See, as mandated by this ROC also, unlisted public company, there are around 65,000-
Yeah, 60,000 companies are there.
Companies are there.
Yeah.
Now, it's not mandatory for them to admit it.
Yeah.
Unless and until they will do new issue or any transfer or any corporate action they need to mention.
Yeah.
Bonus or something they receive, then they have to do it compulsorily in demat form.
Yeah.
Again, wholly owned subsidiaries are not required to demat.
Okay. Far now we have covered 1,000 companies in a month. Whether we can expect the same trend actually to be followed in the future?
As on 31st March, around 1,400 odd companies we have added, unlisted public company.
Okay.
On an average, around 250 comes every month.
Okay. 200 to 250 companies we are expecting by under month basis, right?
Yeah. That is okay.
Got it. Sir, one more thing is that we are speaking about the ongoing project of NSDL where we are projecting to create a revenue by through verifier rational from, through the necessity through whom we have been done this for, right?
That is right. Correct.
Yeah. What will be the actual realization that we can expect from this kind of thing? Is there any guidance you have been given to that?
No, we cannot right now. It all depends on what charges NSDL decides in September 2019.
Okay. Sir, one more thing, sir. Actually, the intra-day clearing coefficients are likely to come on from June of 2019, right?
Sorry, come again.
The intra-day clearing coefficients which have been, for example, if an investor is buying 10 shares over there in NS and likely to sell nine or 10 shares in BSE, within one settlement charges will be likely to happen, right?
That's right. Yeah.
Yeah. For that, actually, whether the investor has to be mandated to get another demat account over there with the CDSL?
That's right.
It may, I don't know, impact in our business, that's what I meant.
Settlement will happen within the brokers, actually. The way he will open his account will undergo a slight change, or the way he will handle his account.
Okay. It will impact our growth in the subsidiary accounts?
It will impact to the extent of clearing member account, because he no longer needs to have an account with both the exchanges now.
Okay.
He will have the account with only one exchange.
Okay.
Transactions will remain with both the accounts, in that account.
Okay.
There will be some impact, but we don't know right now how much would be that impact. Because he may decide to keep that account in CDSL or NSDL.
One more thing, just that on the CERSAI side, you have been likely to come up with an KYC model. They're doing KYC model, that's also going on.
That's right.
Yeah. How long it will take for them to come with this? Whether if they will come, what will be the impact that we can expect from our side? Because in that segment itself, we are getting nearly 80%, 90% of our annual, right?
Correct. They have started operations, if I'm not mistaken, for the last five years. For last five years, there's been some talks that it will be mandatory to upload your KYC over there. Right now, we cannot say anything as yet.
Okay, they are already doing this business for the past five years.
They are already doing it. Yeah.
Okay.
All the banks and insurance companies already have started uploading records into them.
Okay. Now they are requesting us to do the things with them, right?
Requesting intermediaries to do it through them. That's it.
Okay, fine, sir. That's all my side, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pooja Doshi from Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited. Please go ahead.
I have a question related to annual issuer charges.
Every financial year, we charge this particular charge in the month of April, based on the average number of folios of previous financial year, right?
Correct.
For FY 2018, we charged in the month of April. For FY 2019, we charged based on the folios that were generated in FY 2018. That's why we had this 21% of growth. Going ahead for FY 2020, do you expect a similar growth given the headwinds that were faced in the markets? Or do you expect like a long-term growth rate of 7% or 8% that we've been growing historically?
Historically, if you see last 10 years or so, at a CAGR of 12%, we are growing on that.
Okay. Do you expect something similar in FY 2020, given that FY 2019 wasn't a very good year for us?
We are expecting that.
Okay. All right. Sir, in terms of effective tax rate, do you expect similar to FY 2018 tax rate of 26%?
Okay. All right. That was it.
Yes.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rama Krishna from Zenwealth. Please go ahead.
Hello, can you hear me?
Yes.
I've been just trying to understand the details of the new government projects and all, which you have been mentioning during the course of this call.
Just wanted to understand in terms of who all could actually participate in such tenders and how technology-intensive these projects are. If you can throw some understanding on that part.
Yes. Typically, as depositories, we are invited to participate in such projects. One of them is the Academic Depository. Again, for the GSTN, they had certain criteria where you could apply for a GST service provider. We have become a GST service provider. The third one was on the e-KYC part. There, I think there was more a thing of network requirement, and you could become an AUA, KUA based on that, and CDSL agent, ASA, KSA. There is some license fee to be paid every year for both ASA, KSA, as well as AUA. Right now, these are the three projects which we are doing with the government.
Thank you.
Do you have any more questions, sir?
No, thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, as you mentioned that in FY 2019, you have added 1,400 new unlisted companies in the annual issuer charges that give an additional income of INR 3 crores, right?
You're adding around 200-250 companies every month. Based on this, if it will be matched, then the average relation per company comes to around INR 25,000. You have mentioned earlier that the revenue opportunity from the unlisted companies is anywhere around INR 6,000-INR 9,000. Am I missing something here or like INR 25,000 is the relation that we should take for the
See, we can charge to unlisted company one-time admission fee, that is INR 16,000. This is one time only.
For unlisted company, first slab is of INR 5,000 for having a share capital of 2.5 crore paid-up share capital.
Okay.
On an average, we are getting INR 5,000 only. In most of the companies, we are getting INR 5,000 approximately.
For these 1,400 companies, next year we'll get INR 5,000, right?
Correct, sir.
One time will be
Not all 1,400 companies, only to the extent of the companies whose capital comes in the lower slab.
It comes at least 5,000.
At least 5,000 companies.
Okay.
We charge at least INR 5,000. That's the way to look at it.
INR 15,000 plus INR 5,000.
See, we charge INR 15,000 in the first year, second year INR 15,000 and non-charge.
If we create 200, 250 companies, which is coming every month. It comes around 3,000 companies for the year FY 2020.
Yeah. Those companies will charge INR 15,000.
Those companies INR 15,000 plus INR 5,000, right?
Depends on.
INR 5,000-INR 10,000.
which quarter they are joining, accordingly, proportionately we have to charge.
Sir, in terms of the opportunities for the opportunity here, are we approaching these companies or it's an incoming thing that these companies approach these, either CDSL or NSDL?
We wish we would get business sitting in the office.
No. That's what. You have a team which is searching for companies who want to be added or?
Correct.
Are we investing in that or any kind of investment that you have or what kind of thing they have?
That is a normal investment into the marketing team, right?
In the same period, how much companies the competition would have added? Any idea about that and how we are approaching that?
That again is not public information.
Okay. Is it fair to assume that out of the 65,000 unlisted companies, the percentage that we have, the next two years, at least we'll have around 50% market share there, at least?
See, first of all, this number of 65,000, the compliance is very slow. It is not that all 65,000 companies are immediately going to join the repositories because the way the notification has come is that only if they have to make fresh issuance or they want to transfer themselves, then they have to admit themselves in the repository.
Right.
It is not that 65,000 companies all will come at one go in either of the repositories. Far also, the compliance has been like, we have seen companies slowly. Like in six months, if you want to see the numbers, about 1,500 have joined.
1,400.
Since there's a cost to the company, they are very selective in joining.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sriram Srinivasan from Seema Wealth Management. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir.
Yes.
Thanks for the opportunity once again. In the annual issue charges, that is including your fees that you have been tracking apart from the processing fee of company, right? That are based on the share capital.
That's right, sir.
Above the INR 20 crores that you have been charging maybe around INR 10,000, right?
75. That's right, sir.
Yes, sir. What my question is that once among the 63,000 companies, whether we are expecting 200,000 companies on a monthly basis, it was roughly around, what is it? I guess 1,400-1,500 companies on a yearly basis. How much of these companies comes under above INR 20 crores or above INR 10 crores?
This is asking a forward-looking statement which even nobody will be able to predict, I mean.
No, not forward-looking. For the past even it can, sometimes mostly.
No. Most people typically know these are very unlisted companies where the capital is, like say INR 5 crore, INR 10 crore. These are the most of the companies which are being floated.
Okay.
They come in the highest cap, I would like to say that.
Okay. It will be difficult to come with these numbers, right?
Correct.
Yeah. Sir, actually, what is the actual rate issue for debit transaction we have been charging? Far it has been started declining from 2017, I can see from 5.4 to 5.3, 5.3 again 5.1. What is the charge that we are looking forward and whether we have any kind of premium amount to that?
On an average, we are charging INR 5.
No, for this actually we are charging INR 5, right?
Yeah. On an average, it comes to five. From INR 4.25 to INR 5.50, we are charging.
Yeah.
On an average we are charging INR five per transaction.
Okay. Whether we can expect any kind of increase in this slab from INR 5.50 to INR 6 or something else?
No, right now, no because the competition is charging INR five.
Okay. Competition is also likely to charge INR 5, right? So we have been one same category.
Which has increased from INR 4.50 to INR 5 so that increase is by INR 0.50.
Okay, sir. Fine. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments.
Thank you very much for joining earnings call of CDSL and I forgot to tell investors that we have declared 40% dividend but it comes to 60% of payout ratio and our consistent policies are there to declare dividend even in adverse market conditions so stick with. Thank you very much for joining us.
Thank you. On behalf of Axis Capital Limited, I conclude this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.