Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and a very warm welcome to the CDSL Limited Q3 FY 2019 Investor Conference Call hosted by Axis Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aditya Bagul from Axis Capital. Thank you, and over to you, Aditya.
Thank you, Ali. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and a warm welcome to the 3Q FY 2019 earnings conference call of CDSL India Limited. We have the management of CDSL represented by Mr. P.S. Reddy, Managing Director and CEO; Mr. Bharat Sheth, CFO; Mr. Gaurang Shah, Vice President; and Mr. Nilesh Kittur, Assistant Vice President. I request Mr. Reddy to give us a brief overview of the results, post which we will open the floor for Q&A. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Mr. Aditya. Welcome to you all to this Q3 phone call. Well, it must have disappointed some of you. The results are not all that expected. It's primarily due to a very weak market, the number of IPOs have been substantially lower. You see the kind of revenues that we had in the corresponding quarter in the last year as against this quarter. This year is not all that good in terms of markets. As you know, 60% of our income is almost all market related, so it has impacted our performance as well. Although you are all very much well known in the industry as to the numbers of IPOs, et cetera, in the FY 2018, you have IPOs, about INR 33,000 crore was raised as against 2017, INR 68,000 crore. That itself is more than half the fall in the IPO market.
That has substantially impacted because IPO revenues were driving our business. In fact, last year was exceptionally a good year for us. That being so, even the transactional revenues have also come down because delivery-based volumes are lower. In this quarter, we had about 27%, 28% fall in the billable transactions. That was the kind of fall we have. Even the eKYC, thanks to the Aadhaar order, it has impacted the account opening in terms of using the eSign and then Aadhaar-based accounts. We are trying to find where we are introducing an offline eKYC module. In fact, we have soft launched it. Maybe we will be rolling out to other market participants at the earliest once the feedback is received from the market participants. eKYC is another one which has impacted us. Of course, National Academic Depository, we are doing well there.
Almost 500+ universities we have signed up, that's a good number. Also, the government is also taking a keen interest in populating the database with more and more academic records. A lot of conference calls and VCs are happening with the ministry officials and the university officials. We are in between to facilitate that activity. That's now picking up, and that's a good portent for us. Coming back to the other business in the CDSL itself, that is unlisted companies. There also, we have seen a very good traction. Almost all about 500+ companies have been admitted in quarter-end, and another 500 maybe is being done. That's a good development that is taking place on this front. Our commodity repository, as I have been saying, you have three verticals. One is the eNAM vertical, where the integration is still happening.
It's not done kind of case. The other one is the pledge by the banks in the eNWR. There we have seen some kind of growth, and some banks have become repository participants. There we are looking at business to pick up. Commodity exchanges themselves have done the settlements. MCX, we have done in MCX settlements of Mentha and we have done one minute. We have done Mentha, and Cardamom is another one which we have done it. Yeah. We have done Cotton oil. For ICEX, we have done Rubber settlements as late as in December 2018. These are the developments that are taking place. There, again, it's a very small traction as of now.
The eNWRs are not made mandatory by the RBI. Probably once it is made mandatory by RBI, many banks will start lending only against the eNWRs. Commodity exchanges anyway have made it mandatory for registration of all warehouses where the stocks to be deliverable on exchanges are being kept. All those commodity warehouses are registered. Of course, we are now looking at some insurance deposits also doing well. We have seen good traction as a standalone. Okay? Notwithstanding our pursuance with the ministry for a single demat account, which is again, let me tell you, is happening, it is a thing. Maybe sooner than later, the guidelines will be issued for permitting depositories or to depository SBU. It will be permitted to do aggregation of other effect classes in the demat form. This is what we are looking at it at this point in time.
I will ask Bharat Bhai to explain some of the numbers, which you're all keen to look at, later on you can ask questions.
Good afternoon to everybody, and wishing you happy and prosperous New Year to all of you. On consolidated basis, Q on Q, that is quarter ended December 2018 versus quarter ended September 2018, the total consolidated income is marginally down by 1%, that is INR 6,289 lakhs in September 2018 as compared to INR 6,222 lakhs in December 2018, mainly on account of overall market conditions. However, the other income increased by around 65% from INR 974 lakhs to INR 1,605 lakhs on the current quarter.
Further, the PAT is marginally down by 6%, that is from INR 3,015 lakhs to INR 2,845 lakhs, which was mainly due to increase in the sum of the expenditure. Whereas year-over-year basis, quarter ended December 2018 versus quarter ended December 2017, the consolidated total income increased by 9%, that is INR 6,222 lakhs in December 2018 as compared to INR 5,726 lakhs in December 2017.
The operational income decreased by 10% from INR 5,134 lakhs to INR 4,616 lakhs, mainly due to subdued market conditions. However, other income has increased by 171% from INR 592 lakhs to INR 1,605 lakhs in the current quarter, mainly due to mark-to-market gains on investment. Further, the PAT is up by 12%, that is from INR 2,540 lakhs to INR 2,846 lakhs. The expenditure was higher by 18% on year-over-year basis, that is INR 2,195 lakhs to INR 2,595 lakhs. Whereas on a standalone front, quarter ended December 2018 to quarter ended September 2018, that is Q on Q, standalone total income is up by 1%, that is from INR 4,821 lakhs in September 2018 to INR 4,887 lakhs in December 2018, mainly on account of improvement in other income. Around 59% increase in other income from INR 718 lakhs to INR 1,139 lakhs in the current quarter.
The decrease in PAT by 3%, that is from INR 2,209 lakhs to INR 2,152 lakhs, mainly on account of increase in expenditure. Whereas quarter ended December 2018 to quarter ended December 2017, that is year-over-year basis, the total income up by 8% from INR 4,541 lakhs in December 2017 to INR 4,887 lakhs in December 2018. The operational income decreased by 9% from INR 4,096 lakhs to INR 3,748 lakhs. However, the other income increased by 156% to INR 445 lakhs in December 2017 to INR 1,139 lakhs in December 2018. The increase in PAT is 18%, that is from INR 1,820 lakhs to INR 2,152 lakhs was mainly on account of increase in income and reduction in effective tax. The expenditure was higher by 13% on year-over-year basis, that is INR 1,897 lakhs to INR 2,145 lakhs. Now I request you to open forum for question and answer.
Sure, sir. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anived Portfolio Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. If you would give us the revenue breakup about your major heads in terms of transaction charges, annual issue charges, IPS transaction, quarter versus last quarter.
Yeah. Quarter three versus quarter two of 2018, annual issue charges of quarter three is INR 1,761 lakhs.
Okay.
Transaction charge is INR 950.46 lakhs. Major on the end customers.
Yeah.
E-voting charge is INR 56.76 lakhs. IPO corporate action charge is INR 400 lakhs. Whereas KYC online data charge is INR 713 lakhs. These are the major heads against its quarter two, that is September, annual issue charges.
It's around yearly. Last September, if you can give.
December 2017?
Yes. Q3 versus Q3. Yeah, exactly.
Q3 versus Q3, that is annual issue charges was INR 1,388. Transaction charge is INR 1,271. E-voting charge is INR 30.84. IPO corporate action charge is INR 834 lakhs. Online data charge is INR 777 lakhs. These are the major components.
Understood.
Against INR 51 crore of December 2017, INR 46 crore is of December 2018.
Sure. In your opening remarks, we mentioned about unlisted companies, around 500 have signed. What is the kind of conversion we are targeting? What is the one time and kind of recurring revenue which you could highlight during the quarter? How is the pipeline looking?
In this quarter, around 549 companies added as an unlisted company. It gives me a gross revenue of around INR 70 lakh. Out of which 50% are below, that is less than INR 5,000 per annum, what we are getting.
Okay. This INR 70 lakh would include recurring and well as one time revenue?
That is only annual issue, that is recurring one.
Okay. What will be the one time revenue for this?
INR 82 lakhs, one time revenue. That is INR 15,000 per company.
Okay. INR 82 lakhs. When do we get clarity on the university kind of pricing? Because I think after six odd months, revenue monetization will start. Anything from the government as yet on that?
Nothing. Government told us to start charging them from September 2019 onwards. Nothing on that front.
Nothing as yet. Right. Lastly, we mentioned about the Aadhaar ruling, and we are trying to develop a physical verification and a system moving forward. Where are we on that, and what are the intermediaries and channel kind of feedback, and when does that normalize?
No, we have already launched it, offline KYC platform. People are testing it. Testing in the sense they are actually using it live. Okay? We have not formally rolled out to everyone. Maybe in the next two to three weeks, we will be able to do that.
Okay. Two to three weeks. That should stem some of the revenue kind of decline and speed up the operation.
Yeah, accounts opened will increase, KYCs will increase, et cetera. All that will happen.
Understood. I'll come back if I have more questions. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harit Shah from Reliance Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you for the call. Sir, wanted some data as far as your incremental market share is concerned, as far as your beneficial owner account is concerned this quarter.
Incremental market share is about 65%.
Hello?
Hello.
Hello.
Incremental market share for the quarter is 63%, and for nine months, it is 65%.
Okay, 63% for the quarter, 65% for nine months.
Overall market share for beneficial owner account is 48%.
Right. Sure. Secondly? Hello?
Yeah. Go ahead.
Yeah. Okay, my second question, you had mentioned that obviously because of the weak markets, your transaction revenue was obviously down. There was about a 28% fall in demat transactions. That was year-on-year, is that right?
Yeah. The comparison is over the quarter ended December 2020.
Right. Sure. All that. Finally, as far as the unlisted companies is concerned, of course, you had mentioned about the INR 70 lakh or so revenue being recurring revenue. That is annuity or is that quarterly?
No, annual issue charge. Annuity base.
Yeah. This is annual recurring revenue, basically.
Yeah.
Okay, great. That's it from my side, and I'll come back later if I have a follow-up. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harshal Sethia from AUM Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Hello.
Yeah, sir. Can you give me the heads of incomes under other income which contributes to your INR 16 crore of top line in the current year?
Other income includes investment income also.
Okay.
Income from-
If on these subsidiaries of ours, commodities and repository.
Yeah, all together, CDSL and all such things.
Okay. Which is the-
Harshal, I'm sorry to interrupt. We are getting some echo from your line. If you're on speaker, please turn that off
Hello?
Hello.
Yeah. Am I audible?
Yeah. Now it's fine. Thank you.
Okay. One more thing. Which subsidiary will be the major contributor to CDSL's other income as of now?
CDSL. CDSL Ventures Limited.
CDSL Ventures. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. The annual escrow charges that you mentioned, INR 17.6 crore for the quarter, how much of that incremental is from the unlisted opportunity in this quarter?
Unlisted is INR 70 lakh, what I have told you. INR 70 lakh and INR 82 lakh. One crore fifty lakh is from unlisted company.
Okay. Sir, like in this quarter, we have seen a sharp jump in the other expenses, which is like from INR 8.5 crore, it has jumped to INR 12.6 crore.
In this quarter, can you please provide the breakup of this?
During third and fourth quarter, we are providing for doubtful debts or bad debts. Majority comes from the provision for impairment of financial assets, provision for doubtful receivables. Majority are from issuers only. Yes, sir.
Okay. Only 12.6 or so around jump is around 4 crores. The 4 crore incremental is around
Around 3 crore is from provision for doubtful debts and bad debts.
Okay. Okay, sir. We're also going to provide for the next quarter, or we have taken into account all the defaults in this quarter?
That is next quarter also some that we'll see now how much based on it we'll provide. That is based on nine months. Yes, sir.
Okay. Sir, in the online regulator charges, the CVIL KYC business. In the last call you mentioned that, as per the change in the regulation, that the online OTP-based KYC is not allowed. That has benefited us and people are coming to this CVIL KYC. As per my understanding, that change in regulation was beneficial for us. Now again, now you're saying that this has impacted us in this quarter. What has changed?
I'm sorry. I'm not able to understand online OTP-based is beneficial to us. I didn't understand.
Last quarter, like you mentioned that change in the Aadhaar. Earlier it was a risk to us.
No, no. See, Aadhaar was seamlessly it was happening, accounts growth was good. Okay? Accounts growth has stopped because they said you can't use the Aadhaar-based online account opening. Now, offline KYC has come in. Offline KYC is not better than online, it is better than of not having any KYC of Aadhaar.
Earlier we were present in offline only, right sir? Offline has increased. Have you seen-
No, no. Offline KYC is increased in the sense the once people who are going to the broker and submitting the KYC details and then they are uploading, that is maybe increasing it. Okay?
Okay.
It is the online brokerages houses, sir, who are using the Aadhaar-based KYC. They were opening good amount of accounts. All of a sudden, that pipe has dried. Okay?
Okay.
Because of the Aadhaar Supreme Court order. Now we want to revive that. That's where we are at this point in time.
Okay. Right now we are only doing, I think.
No, no. Offline also we have introduced now. Offline, there's a QR code-based Aadhaar authentication. Okay? People have to go to the Aadhaar. The Aadhaar is digitally signing it and then pushing the QR code-based this one. Our system reads that and then opens the account online. That's the way we have developed the system. Okay?
Okay.
There is a two-leg process involved. It's not so seamless as it used to be when there is a direct fetching of the data from Aadhaar.
Okay. How do you see this revenue line like from here onwards? Do you see it dropping further or you expect it to pick up in the next two quarters?
See, I only look at how I'm doing vis-a-vis competition, given the market conditions, given these problems. We're doing better than the competition, and we'll continue to do better than competition. That's all.
Okay.
That's what I would like you to take from me.
Okay, sir. Sir, one last question for you. In this KYC market, what is our market share and how we have gained there or lost there?
Well, about the 60% we have. We have continued to have that.
Okay. You're not seeing any increase in competition in this?
No, no. Competition is Yeah, we have not seen it. At least we remain stable, in that sense. Yes.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pawan Kumar from Ratnatraya Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes.
In the other income part with the INR 16 crores, how much is the mark-to-market gain?
Mark-to-market gain is INR seven crores for the quarter.
INR seven crores for the quarter? Okay. Secondly, the other income part of it, I'm not referring to the other income part in the financial results, but the things that are not covered by annual issuer charges, online data KYC, IPO, and transaction charges. That particular part of revenue seems to have come down to INR 8.46 crores. What does it comprise of exactly? Sorry, INR 7.6 crores versus INR 10.55 crores last quarter.
You are talking of other income or expenses?
Other operational income.
Other operational income is comprised of beneficial owner statement charges are there, CAS. E-voting, e-KYC is there.
Okay. This portion is INR 6.6 crores versus INR 10.5 crores. Is it, sir?
No. One minute.
Q1, Q4.
No, INR 51 against INR 46. See, total operational income from INR 51 crore, it has gone down to INR 46 crore.
Right.
So.
Okay. eKYC from INR 150 lakhs, it has gone to INR 79 lakhs.
Okay.
e-voting, that is 30- 56. That is amazing. Otherwise, there are online data charges from INR 7.77 lakhs-INR 7.13 lakhs. There are no major deep research. From INR 51 crore-INR 46 crore, it gives me three major items.
Okay.
Okay?
Okay. You are talking about.
And-
Q3 2018 to Q3 2017, isn't it, you're comparing?
Yes, sir.
What I'm asking is, if you take off transaction charges, which you have mentioned as INR 9.5 crores.
IPO charges, you have mentioned as INR 4 crores.
Online data KYC charges, you have given it as INR 8.46 crores.
INR 7.13 crores.
How much, sir?
Online data charges, INR 7.13 crores.
Okay. Annual issuer charges is INR 17.61 crores.
Correct.
Okay. If I take these all off, there is another part of the income, right? Which is around INR 7 crores-INR 8 crores.
Sir, that is user facility charges, INR 83 lakhs, settlement charges, INR 40 lakhs, account maintenance charges, INR 78 lakhs. Consolidated Account Statement charge is INR 223 lakhs.
Right. I am asking you, that particular part of the income has come down from INR 10.55 crores to INR 7 crores around. Is there any particular reason for that?
No.
That's how much it has come down.
No. Case has increased. Not that way it has come down. If you see from INR 51 crore, December 2017, to INR 46 crore, overall impact are of INR 5 crores.
Okay. Sir, secondly, regarding the bad debts, how do we account for it? Do we majorly account for these bad debts in Q3 and Q4 or-
Q3 and Q4.
Okay. Every year, Q3 and Q4, these particular bad debts might be there.
Correct.
Okay. In Q4, is there any other major impact, as we have taken around INR 4 crore hit this particular quarter?
That we have to see, because now as per the India's expected credit loss formula is there. Even less than six months old also, we have to provide for it. We'll work it out and we'll come to know about it.
Are they recoverable?
Yes.
As per your view?
Yeah. We have been recovering also. It's not that they are not being recovered.
Okay. The problem is that the rule says that you have to provide for it, you have to do provisioning. Later on when you recover it, you add it into your income.
See, last year, we have provided INR four and a half crores for the full year. Out of which we have recovered around INR 1.70 crores. During current year.
Okay. Fine. I'll get back in the due time.
Okay, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manish Mandhana from Valon Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon.
Good afternoon.
Sir, this is regarding this provision and why this bad debt occurs in a business like ours. What is the modus operandi, and do we need to file some legal cases against the people?
Year on year, our about 92%-93% is the recovery rate. In some years, in good years, it is even 96%. This year it stuck at about 92 or so. Some companies say that, "We are under IBC, so we can't pay." Some big companies also say that, "We are under IBC, we don't pay." We are filing it, whatever under the IBC provisions, whatever needed letters to prepare, we send it. Yes, this is a recurring issue for us. What we do is we stop their BENPOS, that is beneficiary owner position and other services we don't give them.
If they issue additional share, if they want a beneficial owner position like, what you call your shareholders' register and other things, we don't give them any service. When they come back to us, we tell them, "You better pay, then only we'll give it." That's the way we do it.
Sure. I appreciate. Sir, my second question is regarding the cash on the books. As a shareholder, I'm quite concerned about that there is no special provision for either dividend or maybe a buyback. I fail to understand that why we should keep a cash on the books and which is the rightful owner of the shareholder, and why it should not be distributed as a special dividend or maybe as a buyback or whatever may be the process. Maybe our firm is suitably positioned to do quarterly dividends to the shareholders. Our regulatory capital, what you required is not more than INR 250 crore. Even you extend it to INR 300 crore, the cash what we accrue each year is significantly big enough for us to generate back and give back to the shareholder.
What is holding the board back or maybe our sponsors back to give this back shareholder rightful money to back to the shareholders?
Out of INR 600 crore surplus is there, INR 300 crore requirement is there, the net worth criteria is there that we have to maintain it. Further, every year on a standalone basis, around 57%-60% payout ratio is there, on a consolidated basis, 42%-44% ratios are there. Every year, if you see last 10 years, every year we are increasing the dividend payout ratio. If you see our income depends on a market. Market is weak, that time also we are ensuring dividend and keep ratio at the same level or more. For that purpose only we require. If I will give it to you, then my other income is going to reduce, my profit is going to reduce.
No, I appreciate that. Sir, the dividends are very inefficient on the taxation front because you have to pay a dividend distribution tax, and as owner, we have to pay a taxation on our end.
Yes.
A tender approach of buyback is far more suitable where the return on capital employed of the business can change dramatically. If I have to extrapolate this in next three, four years, the return on equity of the business would remain at close to 20%, or at max, it can go down or maybe 21% struggle there. Once a better use of cash is done, then the return on equity can go back to 28%-30%.
Yeah.
I can send you my calculation in detail. I'm just wondering that what is there in the board and why they have not discussed this issue, and why it has been too long for so now. I'm just wondering if there is any answer you can, and you as a custodian of the shareholder wealth, you are better placed to answer this.
We have informally discussed in the board. The board is of the view that we will take it up at an appropriate stage. That's the way the board is of the view. Now they feel that it is not right time to discuss these issues. We have discussed now. Let's wait for some time and then do that. We'll look at that, examine that. That's what they were saying.
Maybe, sir, I would definitely write to the board and ask for their explanation in detail that what is that they are waiting for when the cash is piling on the books. Definitely I'll do that. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Bagul from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Sir, I have just one question. We have four new ventures that we're seeking out. You have the GST, NAD, insurance, and the warehouse receipts. How do we see this scaling up? Which amongst them do you think is the most promising? As we stand today, what is the kind of revenue that we're generating from this? Say, let's say 2020, 2021, what is the number that we can be looking at?
Well, I will not be able to give any numbers as to what will be the, not 2020, 2022, 2023, or whatever it is.
Yes
The most promising of all the four, if I have to rank them, the warehouse depository is going to be number 1. That's what my view is. The second thing is the National Academic Depository. The third one is the single Demat account for all financial assets, where these insurance and other products will also go into that. Okay. That's the kind of order. Okay. GST, as you are seeing, going day by day, the government is reducing the number of filings that are required to be made, I don't think that will be a very big revenue driver at this point in time. Yes, the other three are really good ones. They are good ones.
Sure, sir. If I ask it conversely, can you share what is the revenue generation from these three revenue streams in the first nine months?
As I said, the National Academic Depository, we are not allowed to charge till September 2019. Obviously, there's nothing that we can charge.
Sure.
Okay. In the case of CCRL, okay, it's just we have done a few settlements and then few lakhs, maybe not even INR 5 lakhs. That's the way it is. It's very insignificant. My bet is substantially in CCRL, depends on the Electronic National Agriculture Market, which is a spot market, which is going to grow much bigger than what it is, what commodity exchanges are doing it. That's where we would like to play a much bigger role. That will take time. As I said that we are discussing system integration with eNAM. Once that is done, probably that's going to be a big one.
Sure, sir. That's quite helpful. That's it from my end.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Pritesh Chheda from The Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Sir, just two clarifications. You gave the e-voting charges revenue. You gave at INR 5.6 crore for the quarter. What was it for the corresponding quarter last year?
Not INR 5.6 crore, INR 56 lakhs only.
Okay, versus?
Last year it was INR 30 lakhs.
The other question, when you gave the bad debts write-off number, you said that incremental it is about INR 3 crore more. Just wanted to know what was the bad debt number this year, and what is the bad debt provisioning number last year?
Last year, we have provided INR 450 lakhs.
This year it would be around INR 7 crores.
Okay. Basically, the whole incremental expense number is because of the bad debt provisioning?
Yeah. Last year.
Okay. Third clarification, on the eKYC side, you mentioned about Aadhaar and some changes there. If you could highlight what is the changes in the business that has come in on account of this Aadhaar link eKYC and whatever changes or strategies.
I will not be able to exactly say how much eKYC generated based on Aadhaar and how much is other than Aadhaar, okay? When Aadhaar was there, a lot of online brokerage firms were opening very good number of accounts. I don't mention that number. Again, it's competition sensitive, that's answer. Some of them have reduced their account opening because eKYC is no longer there. The offline KYCs that we have introduced trying to restore our numbers back to what we had started. I will not be able to disclose the numbers as to how much is the eKYC now.
Okay. Lastly, on the unlisted company side.
Yes
The revenue has started flowing from this quarter, or revenue was flowing since the last two, three quarters. You gave a number of one point.
There are two things. For the last maybe a decade, the unlisted companies are also admitting themselves with the depositories. That is a voluntary activity. With effect from 1st October 2018, the regulation has come, and under the regulation, companies cannot issue additional securities unless they are in Demat. That compulsion of going for Demat has come only in October. The numbers have substantially gone up.
Okay. These 500 companies is what you said got converted in the quarter, which generated your revenue of about INR 1.5 crore, INR 1.7 crore. What is the full potential here, and what is the timeline given to these companies to get their securities registered with the depository?
Well, the regulation has not prescribed at this point in time any outer timeline for them to get admitted. We expect, we are giving MIS to the MCA every now and then. Probably they will look at it whether the companies are showing any urgency to get it done or not. If they have not done, probably they will impose. Otherwise, if they are satisfied with this growth, probably, they may not put any timeline. Okay. The total unlisted public-limited companies are almost around 65,000-75,000 are there, and some are anyway admitted, and many are still to be admitted.
Okay. As of now, the only regulation change is that if anyone has to issue new shares-
Yeah
it has to get compulsory Demat.
That's right.
That's the only regulation imposed.
Any transfer has to be done, that will be done only in Demat.
Okay.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Girish Daga from K.M. Bisaria Family Trust. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hello, team. Just a few questions. First, on the budget side, let's say last five years, what is the collection efficiency we have seen on recovery side? Like normally, we end up recovering what, 30%, 40%, 50%?
What? Sorry, please repeat your question.
On the budget side.
Yeah.
Last five year cumulative, how much we have given and how recovery we have made. You gave the last year number. Cumulatively, are we seeing 30%, 40% recovery or higher than that?
Around that time, 25%-30% recovery.
25%-30%. Okay. Second one, on unlisted side, you mentioned five, 49 companies got added. These are the fresh companies which you got in last quarter?
Correct.
You are having some companies with the addition of this?
These are the additional companies during.
New company.
In this last quarter, October to December.
The INR 70 lakh also, only from these companies.
Yeah, from those companies. INR 1.5 lakh, not INR 70 lakh. INR 70 lakh for annual basis.
Recurring income.
, 180.
Okay. Just confirming on the transaction head, what you gave. Transaction charges are INR 9.5 crore versus INR 12.71 crore?
Yes.
IPO was INR 4 crore versus INR 8.34 crore?
Yeah.
This CAS charges was INR 2.23 crore you mentioned versus INR 3.0 crore at last, if I remember.
Which charges?
CAS consultation account.
Yes. Against 180, 223.
Against what? 180.
Yes.
Okay. Thanks a lot and all the best.
Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gautam Gupta from Nine Rivers Capital. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Glad Mr. Reddy is doing well. I remember he had a bad throat, I think, last time. My question was on AIC charges. I understand that AIC is linked very substantially to the number of folios, because folio-based charges are the biggest share in that. Now, given that this year we've had weak markets, are you seeing any reduction in number of folios, which therefore may impact AIC for us in the next financial year? Any color if you could give us on that?
See, I don't think AIC charges will impact immediately. As on 31st of March of the last year, whatever is the annual charges, that is number of folios are there-
That will be the basis for charging for this entire year.
Got it. This year there'll be no impact.
This year it will not be, if this year it is much lower, then it will be the next year. I have not seen such kind of this one. The reason is, that new accounts are coming in. There some credits are coming. To that extent, some compensation is there. If some folios are going out, some new folios are getting added.
Got it, sir. Fair enough, sir. I think that's my only question. Wishing you a great new year ahead too.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shivkumar from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, can you shed more light on this e-KYC venture? Because in the last call you said that because of the Supreme Court order on the Aadhaar-based issuance, you would be moving to a QR code-based system. What is the progress in that, and how is the general industry coping with the recent changes in the whole Aadhaar-based signing up system?
As I said, they're all waiting for CVL also to launch a new product which will be seamlessly integrated with the QR code, which we have now done. This is also released, the QR code base, a month ago or so. Immediately we started the development, and then we launched it. How is industry coping with? Probably they are looking at alternative methods of using a webcam for the in-person verification. Okay. They are also seeing that we will ask them to show on the tab, on the net, on the site, they will open the account and they will confirm it, and they take the printout and sign it and then send it to them. Pending that, they may open the Demat account, and then whatever other accounts they have to open it.
They don't allow any debit to take place in the account until the original documents are reached. Okay. There's no risk in that sense. They only receive the securities into the demat account, but nothing will be moving out unless the original documents are sent. Power of attorney at this point in time is a requirement for most of the players in the market, so power of attorney has to be collected. With a tat of about seven days, they are expected to complete this process.
Right. Sir, how does this QR code system work? How easy is it compared to the Aadhaar-based system?
This is also Aadhaar, but it is offline, essentially. What we were earlier envisaging it, without you knowing that you are moving to Aadhaar, we are simply, you enter your Aadhaar number, and then our system sends it to the Aadhaar, and then Aadhaar gives you the OTP. You enter that, and then again, our system talks to the Aadhaar, and then you get the entire thing downloaded. That's what the online system is working. There will be no linking between our system and Aadhaar, okay. Once you exit it, our system will take you to the Aadhaar site and leave you there. You enter your things on the Aadhaar site, whatever number and all that stuff. You get OTP, and then they will send you where your QR code base, this one to be sent.
You download it once it is made available, digitally signed. You need to log into our system, and again you upload that QR code. That's the mess in. It's not so convenient to the investors. Yes, you have to live with that. You need to exit and then enter. That's the way it is.
It sounds a little bit complicated for an end user.
Little bit complicated, yes.
Yeah, got it. Thank you, sir. That's it from my side.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments.
Thanks to all of you. We hope that we'll be able to do better the next quarter. Okay. If markets improve, definitely we'll do better. Thank you. Thanks to all of you. Thanks to Mr. Aditya.
Thanks.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Axis Capital, that concludes this conference call for today. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.