Q3 18/19

Jan 28, 2019

Quarterly report

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and a very warm welcome to the CDSL Limited Q3 FY 'nineteen Investor Conference Call hosted by Axis Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aditya Baghul from Axis Capital. Thank you, and over to you, Aditya. Thank you, Ali. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and a warm welcome to the 3Q FY 'nineteen earnings conference call of CDSL India Limited. We have the management of CDSL represented by Mr. P. S. Reddy, Managing Director and CEO Mr. Bharat Sheth, CFO Mr. Barang Shah, Vice President and Mr. Nilesh Tipur, our recent Vice President. I request Mr. Reddy to give us a brief overview of the results, post which we will open the floor for Q and A. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Aditya. Welcome to you all to this Q3 phone calls. Well, it must have disappointed some of you. The results are not all that expected. It's primarily due to a very weak market and The number of IPOs have been substantially lower. You see the kind of revenues that we had in the corresponding quarter in the last year as in this Morning quarter in the last year as it is this quarter. And this year is not all that good in terms of markets. As you know, 60% of our income is almost all market related. So it has impacted our performance as well. And Although you're all very much well known in the industry as to the numbers of IQOS, etcetera, In the FY 2018, you have IPOs about INR 33,000 crores was raised As it is 2017, 68,000 force that itself is more than half in the fall in the IPO market. And that has substantially impacted because I see revenues were driving more business. In fact, last year was exceptionally a good year for us. That being so, even the transactional revenues have Because volumes delivery based volumes are lower. In this quarter, we had about 27% a 28% fall in the billable transactions. That was the kind of fall we have. Even the e KYC, thanks to the other order, it has impacted the account opening in terms of using the eSign and then other based accounts. And so We are trying to find where we are introducing an offline free KYC module. And in fact, we have soft launched it. Maybe we will be rolling out to other market participants at the earliest once the feedback is received from the market participants. So, 3 KYC is another one which has impacted us. Of course, National Economic Depository, we are doing well there. Almost all 500 plus Universities we have signed up and that's a good number. And also we have The government is also taking a keen interest in populating the database with more and more academic records. And a lot of conference calls and VCs are happening with the Ministry officials and the University officials. We are in between to facilitate that activity. So that's now picking up. That's good fortune for us. And coming back to the other business in the CDSL itself that is the unlisted companies. There also we have seen a very good traction. Almost all about 500 plus companies have been exited in the in quarter end and another 500 maybe is being done. That's a Good development that is taking place on this front. And our commodity repository, as I've been saying, you have 3 verticals. One is the Enam vertical where the integration is still happening. It's not done kind of case. And the other one is the pledge by the banks in the CMWR. There we have seen some kind of growth and some banks have become repository participants. So there we are looking at business to pick up. And commodity exchanges themselves have done the settlements. MCX, We have done in MTX, so settlements of Mensa and we have done 1 minute. We have done Menfa and Cardamom is another one which we have done it. Yes. We have done cotton oil. We have done it. And for ICX, we have done scrubber settlements as late as in December 2018. So these are the developments that are taking place. And so there, again, it's a very, Very small traction is in as of now. The EMWs are not made mandatory by the RPI. Probably once it is made mandatory by RBI, many banks will start lending only MSP in the U. S. And commodity exchanges anyway have made it mandatory for registration of all warehouses, which are under their where the stocks to be deliverable on exchanges are being kept. So all those commodity waivers are registered. Of course, we are now looking at some insurance quality also doing well. We have seen good traction as a standalone, Okay. Notwithstanding our pursuant to the ministry for a single demat account, which is again, let me tell you, is happening, which is seen. And maybe Sooner than later, the guidance will be issued for permitting depositories or 2 depository SBU, it will be permitted to do aggregation of other asset prices in the Demat form. So this is what we are looking at it at this point in time. I will ask Bharatwai to explain some of the numbers, which you are all keen to look at. And later on, you can ask questions. Yes. Good afternoon to everybody and wishing you a happy and prosperous New Year to all of you. Now on consolidated basis, Q on Q, that is quarter ended December 2018 versus quarter ended September 2018, the total consolidated income is marginally down by 1% that is LEXX 6,289 in September 2018 as compared to LEXX 6,222 in December 2018, mainly on account of overall market conditions. However, the other income increased by around 65 percent from Lx974 to Lx1605 on the current quarter. For the the pay rate is marginally down by 6% that is from 3,015 rex to 2,845 rex, which was mainly due to increase in the sum of the expenditure. Whereas year on year basis, quarter ended December 2018 versus quarter ended December 2017. The consolidated total income increased by 9% that is INR 6,222 max in December 2018 as compared to INR 5,726 Lex in December 2017. The operational income decreased by 10% from L5134 lags to L4616 lags mainly due to some new market conditions. However, their income has increased by 171 percent from INR. Y92x to INR. 1605x in the current quarter, mainly due to mark to market gains on investment. Further, the pay rate is up by 12% that is from 2,005.40x to 2,008.40x. The expenditure was higher by 18% on a year on year basis that is from 2,195 index to 2,595 index. Whereas on a stand alone front, quarter ended December 'eighteen to quarter ended September 2018, that is Q on Q, standalone total income is up by 1% that is from 4821 NEX in September 2018 to 4887 NEX in December 2018, mainly on account of improvement in other income. Around 59% increase in other income from RMB718 to RMB1139 in the current quarter. The decrease in paid by 3% that is from RMB2,209 to RMB2,152 mainly on account of increase in expenditure. Whereas quarter ended December 2018 to quarter ended December 2017, that is year on year basis, the total income up by 8% from 4,541 MAX in December 2017 to 4,887 MAX in December 2018. The operational income decreased by 9% from L40096 to L3000748. However, the other income increased by 156 percent to Lx4.45 lakhs in December 2017 to Lx11.39 lakhs in December 2018. The increase in sales is 18% that is from 18.28 leks to 2,000 RMB152 was mainly on account of increasing income and related to the impact of tax. The expense was higher by 13% on a year on year basis, that is RMB1897x to RMB2,145x. So now I I request you to open forum for question and answer. Sure, sir. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. 2. The first question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anubhav Portfolio Management. Please go ahead. Yes, thanks for the opportunity. If you could give us the revenue break up about our major heads in terms of Transaction charges, annual issued charges, IPS of transaction, quarter versus last quarter? Yes. In Quarter 3 versus quarter 2 of 'eighteen, any issue of charges of quarter 3, Lakh 17.61, transaction charges Lakh 950.46, Major only and talking to us. Yes. E working charge is 56.76 lags. IPO corporate exchange charge is 400 megs whereas KYC online data charge is 713 megs. This has a major head Again, this quarter 2, that is September, annual issue charges was Last month, September, April, then yes. December 2017? Yes, yes. Q3 versus Q3. Q3 versus Q3, but the annual issue charges was 13.88 Transaction charges, dollars 12.71, e working charge is $30.84, IPO corporate exchange charge is 8.34 lags and online data charge is 7.77 lags. These are the major components. So against INR51 crores of December 2017, INR46 crores B. Balaji:] Yes. In your opening remarks, we mentioned about Unlisted companies around 500 have signed. So what is the kind of the conversion we are targeting? What is the onetime and kind of recurring revenue that you could highlight during the quarter? And how is the pipeline looking? In this quarter, around 549 companies added as an unlisted company, it gives me a gross revenue of around SEK70,000,000 And out of which 50 percent are below, that is less than INR5,000 per annum, what we are getting. Okay. And this 70 lags would include recurring annualized one time revenue? That is only annual if you are, that is recurring 1. Okay. And what will be the one time revenue for this? Lx 82,000,000 One time revenue. That is RMB 15,000 per company. And when do we get clarity on the university kind of pricing? Because I think after 6, 4 months revenue monetized and will Got anything from the government as yet on that or Nothing because government told us to start with Charging them from September 'nineteen onwards, so nothing on that front. Nothing else. Yes. And lastly, you already mentioned about the Aadhaar ruling, and we are Trying to develop a physical verification on a system moving forward. So where are we on that? And what are the intermediaries and Can we kind of feedback and when does that normalize? No. We've already launched it offline KYC platform And people are testing it, testing in the sense they are actually using it live, okay? We are not formally rolled out to everyone. And maybe in the next 2 to 3 weeks, we'll be able to do that. Okay. And that should stem some of the revenue kind of decline and speed up The operating number? Yes, accounts open will increase and then KYC will increase, etcetera, etcetera, all that will Understood. I'll come back if I have more questions. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harish Shah from Reliance Securities. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for the call. So I wonder from the data as far as your incremental market share is concerned, as far as your beneficial owner account is concerned this quarter? Hello? Hello? The incremental market share for the quarter is 63% and For 9 months, it is 65%. Okay. So 63 for the quarter, 65 for the for 9 months. Overall market share for the initial owner of Ghanu, 48%. And secondly hello? Yes. Go ahead. Yes. Okay. So my second question, so you have Shin, this is obviously because of the weak markets, your transaction revenue was obviously down the So there was about a 28% fall in Bindu transaction. So that was year on year. Is that right? Yes. For the quarter ended, it is over comparison is over the quarter ended December 30. Right. Sure. And finally, as far as the unlisted The company is concerned, of course, you had mentioned about the 70 lakhs or so revenue being recurring revenue. So that is annuity or is that 40 lakhs? No, the annual issue itself. Any idea, any idea, please? Yes. So this is annual recurring revenue basically. Yes. Okay, great. So that's it from my side, and I'll come back later if I have a follow-up. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harshal Sethiyan from AUM Advisors. Please go ahead. Hello. Hello. Yes, sir. Can you give me the head of income and other income, which To fund the price to have 16 crores of top line in the current Other income includes investment income, Okay. You come on from You are all these subsidiaries of our commodities and deposits. Yes, yes, I want to get it, CDS and I know it's actually. Okay. Okay. And which is the Ashal, I'm sorry to interrupt. We are getting some echo from your line. If you are on speaker, please turn that off. Hello? Hello? Yes. Am I all okay? Yes. Now it's fine. Thank you. Okay. And one more thing, which subsidiary will be the major contributor to CDHL's other income as of now? CDHL. CDHL Venture Limited. GSV Ventures. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead. Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. The annual issue charges that you mentioned, RMB17.6 billion for the quarter, how much of that incremental is from the the understood opportunity in this quarter? Unlisted is 70 Lex what I have told you, 70 Lex and 82. So 1 crore 50 Lex is From an industry company. Okay. And sir, like in this quarter, we have seen a sharp jump in the other expenses, which is like from INR8.5 crores to a jump to INR12.6 crores in this quarter. So can you please like provide the breakdown of this, Alex? Generally, during 3rd and 4th quarter, we are providing for doubtful debts or bad debts. So majority comes from the provision for impairment of financial assets provision for doubtful receivables. Majority are from ACOs only. Yes, yes. Okay. So Only INR 12.6 or so, around jump is on INR 4 crores. So the INR 4 crores incremental is around INR 3 crores is from provisional for doubtful debts and Yes. Okay. So we're also going to provide for the next quarter or we have taken into account All the defaults in this quarter. That is next quarter also some that we'll see now how much Based on it, we will provide. That is based on 9 months, yes, sir. Okay. And sir, in the online distributor charges, the one of the civil KYC business, in the last call, you mentioned that As per the change in the regulation that the online OTP based OIC is not allowed. So that has benefited us. And I know people are coming to this senior KYC So as per my understanding, that change in regulation was beneficial for us. But now again, now you're saying that These have impacted us in this quarter. So what has changed? I'm sorry, I'm not able to understand online. OTPBSD It is beneficial to us. I didn't understand. So last quarter, like you mentioned that change in the Aadhaar, No, no. See, other was the theme that it was happening, so accounts growth was good, Okay. And the accounts growth has stopped because they said you can't use the other based online account opening. Now offline KYC has come in. The offline KYC is better than Not better than online, but it will not be it is better than of not having any KYC of other. So earlier, we were present in offline only, right? So offline has increased. So have you seen No, no, no. Offline KYC is increased in the sense The ones people who are going to the broker and submitting the KYC details and then they are uploading, that is maybe increasing it, Okay. But it is the online broker is also, sir, who are using the other based KYC. They were opening good amount of accounts. All of a sudden, that pipe has dried, okay, because of the other Supreme Court order. Now we want to revive that. That's where we are at this point in time. Okay. So right now, we are only doing, I think physical No, no. Offline also we have introduced now. Offline, there's a QR code based Aadhaar authentication, okay? So people have to go to the other. The other is digitally signing it and then pushing the QR code based this one. So our system reads that and then opens the account online. That's the way we have developed the system. Okay? Okay. But there is a 2 leg process involved. It's not so seamless as it used to be when there is a direct pitching of the data from other. Okay. So how do you see this revenue line like from here onwards. Do you see it like dropping further or you'd expect it to pick up in the next two quarters? See, if I only look at How I'm doing vis a vis competition, given the market conditions, given these problems. And so We're doing better than the competition, and we'll continue to do better than competition. That's what I That's what I would like you to take. Okay. And so one last question for you. In this KYC market, What is our market share and how you're going there or losses? Well, about the 60% we have. We are continuing to have that. Okay. So So you're not seeing any increase in competition in this? No, no. Competition is yes, We have not seen it. At least we remain stable in that sense, yes. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhavan Kumar from Ratanatraya Capital. Please go ahead. Hello. Hello. Yes. In the other income part of your with the INR 16 crores, how much is the mark to market gain? Margin market gain is INR 7 crores for the quarter. INR 7 crores for the quarter. Okay. Okay. And secondly, the other income part of it, which is I'm not referring to the other income part The part in the financial results, but the things that are not covered by annual issuer charges, online data, KYC, IPO and transaction charges, That particular part of revenue seems to have come down to INR8.46 crores. So what does it comprise of exactly? What is INR10.65 crores for this INR10.55 crores last quarter. Okay. That portion is INR 6.6 crores versus INR 10.5 crores, is it sir? No, no. 1 minute. 1 minute. The total operational income from INR51 crores, it has gone down to INR46 crores. Okay. So e KYC from 150 Lex, it has gone to 79 Lex. Okay. E14, that is 30 to 56 that is remaining. Otherwise So there are no major deep research. From INR51 crores to INR46 crores, it gives me 3 major items. Okay. Okay. Okay. And Okay. You're talking about Q3 'eighteen to Q3 'seventeen, isn't it, you're comparing? Yes, sir. Yes. See, what I'm asking is to take off transaction Charges, which you have mentioned as INR 9.5 crores. IPO charges, you have mentioned as INR 4 crores. Online data KYC, Chatterjee, you have given it as INR 8.46 crores. Okay. And annual issuer charges is INR 17.61 crores? Correct. Okay. So if I take these all off, there is another part of the income, right, which is around INR 7 crores to INR 8 crores? Sir, that is user facility charges, LK 83, settlement charges, LK40, account maintenance charges, LK 78, Then consolidated return statement charges BRL223,000,000? Right. So I'm asking you, That particular part of the income has come down from INR10.55 crores to INR7 crores around. So is there any particular reason for that? No. That's how long it should come down? No, no. The debt has increased. That is not that way it has come down. If you see from INR 51 crores December 17, the INR 46 crore overall impact of INR 5 crore. Okay. Sir, secondly, regarding the bad debt, so how do we account for it? Do we I mean, Immediately account for these bad debts in Q3 and Q4 or? Q3 and Q4. Okay. So every year, Q3 and Q4, these particular bad debts might be there? Yes, correct. Okay. And in Q4, is there any other major impact as we have taken around 4 crores hit this particular quarter? That we have to see because now as for the India's expected credit loss formula is there. There is even less than 6 months old also we have to provide for it. So we'll work it out and we'll come to know about it. But are they recoverable? Yes. Yes. As per your view? Yes, yes. We have been recovering also. It's not that they are not being recovered, Okay. The problem is that the rule says that you have to accounting standard, say that you have to provide for it, you have to do it from provision. And later on, when you recover it and you add it into the rental? See, last year, we were provided for INR 4.5 crores for the full year, Also, we recovered around 1.70 lakhs during current year. Okay. Fine. I'll get back in the queue. Thanks. Okay, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manish Mandari from Valim Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, good afternoon. So this is regarding this provision and why this bad debt occurs in a business like ours? What is the modus of 'twenty? And do we need to file some legal cases against the people? Yes. Annual issued charges The month which we raised $1,000,000,000 in the month of April, May. And then we give them a month's time. And then thereafter, We keep connecting it. And year on year, our about 92%, 93% Is the recovery rate, okay? In some years, in good years, it is even 96%, okay? And this year it's stuck at about 92, I don't know, okay. And some companies say that we are under IBC, so we can't pay. Some big companies also say that we are under IBC, we don't pay. So we are filing it, whatever under the IBC provisions whatever the needed letters prepared, we will resend it. But yes, this is a recurring issue for us. And what we do is we stock the Benfisher's Benfisher owner position and other services we don't give them. They issue additional shares If they want a beneficial position like what you call your shareholders registered and other things. We don't give them any service. So when they come back to us, we tell them the better pay, then only we'll give it. That's the way we do it. Sure. I appreciate. So my second question is regarding the cash on the books. And as a shareholder, I'm quite concerned about that there is no special provision for either dividend or maybe a buyback. So I aim to understand that why we should keep a cash on the books and which is the rightful owner of the shareholder and why it should not be distributed as a special dividend or maybe as a buyback or whatever may be the process. Maybe our firm is suitably positioned to do quarterly dividends to the shareholders. So and our regulatory capital, what you required is not more than INR 250 crore and even you extend it to INR 300 crore and the cash what we accrue each year is significantly big enough for us to generate back and give back to the shareholder. So what is holding the Board back or maybe a sponsored bank to give this bank shareholder rightful money to back to the shareholders? Yes. Out of INR 600 crores surplus is there, INR 300 crores requirement is set, but the net worth criteria is there that we have to maintain it. Further, every year on a stand alone basis around 57 60% payout ratio is there and on a consolidated basis 42% to 44% ratios are there. And every year, if you see last 10 years, every year we are increasing the dividend payout ratio. And if you see Our income difference on a market. Market is weak. That time also we are We are entering dividend and keep It's at the same level or more. So for that purpose only we require. And if I will give it to you, then my Other income is going to reduce my profit is going to reduce? Do I reduce that? But sir, the dividends are very inefficient on the taxation front because you have to pay a dividend distribution tax and as an owner, we have to pay a taxation on our hand. So a buyback is far more a tender approach of buyback is far more suitable, where the return on capital employed of the business can change dramatically. So if I have to extrapolate this in next 3, 4 years. The return on equity of the business would remain at close to 20% or at max, it can go down or maybe 21% struggle there. And once better use of cash is done, then the return on equity can go back to 28% to 30%. And I can send you my calculation in detail. So I'm just wondering that what is there in the board and why they have not discussed this issue and why it has been too long for so now. So I'm just wondering if there is any answer you can and you are, as a custodian of the shareholder value, you are better placed to answer But we have informally discussed in the Board, but then the Board is of the view that we will discuss it at we will We will take it up at an appropriate stage. That's the way the Board is reviewing. And now they feel that it is not right time to discuss these issues. Yes, we have listed now and then let's wait for some time and then do that. We'll look at that, examine that. That's what they were saying. So maybe, sir, I would definitely write to the Board and ask for their explanation in detail that what is that they are waiting for when the cash is filing on the books. So definitely, I'll do that. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Bagan from Axis Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you. Sir, I have just one question. We have 4 new ventures that we're seeking out. You have the GST, NAB, insurance and the warehouse receipt. How do we see this scaling up? Which amongst them do you think is the most promising? And as we stand today, what is the kind of revenue that we're generating from this and let's say 2020, 2021, what number that we can be looking at? Well, I will not be able to give any numbers as to the what will be the 2020, 2022, 2023 or whatever it is. But the most promising of all the 4, if I have to rank them, the warehouse depository is going to be and our number one. That's what my view is, okay? The second thing is the national accrual deposit. And the third one is the single demat account for all financial assets where these insurance and other products will also go into that, okay? And that's the kind of order, okay? GST, as you are seeing, going day by day, the government is reducing the number of filings that are required to be made. And I don't think That will be a very big revenue driver at this point in time. But yes, the other 3 are really good ones. Yes, they are good guys. Sure, sir. If I ask it conversely, can you share what is the revenue generation from these 3 revenue streams in the 1st 9 months? Sir, as I said, the National Economic Deferred, we are not allowed Charge since September 2019. So obviously, there's nothing that we can share, okay? In the case of CCRL, okay, it's yes, we have done a few settlements and then few lakhs, Not even file Axis, no, that's the way it is. It's very, very, very insignificant. But my bet is substantially in CCR depends on the national and electronic national digital market, which is a spot market, which is going to grow much bigger than what it is, what commodity exchange are doing here. And that's where we would like to play a much bigger role. And that will take time, as I said, that we are discussing in the system integration with EMAM. So once that is done, probably that's going to be a big, big, big one. Sure, sir. That's quite helpful. That's it from my end. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratesh Sherra from the Investment So just two clarifications. You gave the e voting charges revenue. You gave at INR 5.6 Crore for the quarter, what was it for the corresponding quarter last year? Not INR 5.6 crores, INR 5.6 crores, INR 5.6 crores, INR 5.6 crores, INR 5.6 crores, INR 5.6 crores, INR 5.6 crores, INR 5.6 crores, INR 5.6 crores, INR 5.6 crores, INR 5.6 crores only. Okay. Versus On this quarter, 30 lags. Okay? And the other question, when you gave the bad debt write off number, you said that Incremental, it is about INR 3 crore more. So just wanted to know what was the bad debt number this year and what is the bad debt Last year, we have provided Lakhs. This year, it will be around INR 7 crores. Okay. So basically, the whole incremental expense number is because of the bad debt provision? Yes. Okay. And third clarification, On the E KYC side, you mentioned about Aadhaar and some changes there. So if you could highlight What is the changes in the business that has come in on account of this Aadhaar linked EKYC? And what are our changes or strategies? I will not be able to exactly say How much KYC generated based on Aadhaar and how much is other than Aadhaar, okay? But when Aadhaar was there, a lot of Online and brokerage firms were opening very good number of accounts. I don't mention that number against Sensitive, it's competition sensitive. And some of them have reduced their account opening because e KYC is no longer there. So the offline KYC that we have introduced trying to restore our numbers back to what we had started. But I will not be able to disclose the numbers as to the how much is the UK will see mark. Okay? And lastly, on the unlisted company side, the revenue has started flowing from this quarter or revenue started was flowing since the last 2, 3 quarters. You gave a number of 1 point There are 2 things. Even For the last maybe a decade, the unlisted companies are also listing with I mean, admitting themselves with the deposits, but that is a voluntary Activity. Now with respect from 1st October 2018, the regulation has come and under the regulation companies cannot issue additional securities unless they are in Demat. So that compulsion of going for Demat has come only in October Because this is for we have the numbers have substantially gone up. Now this 500 companies is what you said we got converted in the quarter, which generated your revenue of about INR 1.5, INR 1.7 crores. What is the full potential here? And what is the time line Given to these companies to get their securities registered with the deposit? Well, the regulation has not prescribed at this point in time any outer time line for them to get admitted. And but we expect we are giving MIS to the NCA, even now and then. Probably, they will look at it whether the companies are showing any urgency to get it done or not. If they are not done, probably they will impose. But otherwise, if they are satisfied with this growth, probably they may not put any time line, Okay. There are the total unlisted public limited companies are almost on 65,000 to 75,000 update and some are anyway admitted and some Many are still to be admitted. Okay. So as of now, the only regulation change is that if anyone has to issue a new shares, It has to get compulsory TMAC. That's right. That's the only regulation imposed. Or any transfer has to be done, that will be done in the only TMAC. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Giriraj Dhaka from K. M. Visalia Family Trust. Please go ahead. Just A few questions. First on the bad debt side, let's say, last 5 years, what is the collection activity we have seen on recovery side? And normally we end up recovering what 30%, 40%, 50%? What sorry, please repeat your question. On the budget side, we have the last 5 year cumulative. How much we are looking at our recovery we have made with the last year number. Okay. Limitedly, are you seeing 30%, 40% recovery or higher than that? No, around that 25% to 30% recovery. 25% to 30%, okay. 2nd number, understood that you mentioned 549 companies got added. This is a fresh commitment you got in last quarter. So you're having some commitments, where is the addition of this? These are the additional companies, we didn't know new company in this last quarter, October to December. And the 70 lakhs also? Only from these companies, Okay. And just confirming on the transaction head what you do here. So transition charges are 9.5 crores versus 12.71 crores? Yes. And IPO was INR 4 crores versus INR 8.34. Yes. And the expense Charges were 2.23, you mentioned versus 3.0 at last, if I remember. Which charges? CAMS Consultation account. Yes. Against $180,000,000 to $223,000,000 Against $180,000,000 Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot. You know the best. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gautam Gupta from 9 Reverse Capital. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Glad Mr. Reddy is doing well. I remember you had a bad throat last time. My question was on AIC charges. I understand that AIC is linked very substantially with a number of folios because that's folio based strategy has the biggest share in that. Given that this year we've had weak markets, are you seeing any reduction in number of folios which therefore may impact AIC for us in the next Financial years, any color if you could give us on that? See, I don't think AACC charges will impact immediately. As on 31st March last year, whatever is the annual charges that is full number of holders are there, That will be the basis for charging for this entire year. So this year, there will be no impact. This year, it will be Slower than it will be the next year. But I don't I have not seen such kind of this one. The reason is that new accounts are coming in. There some credits are coming. So to that extent some compensation is there. If some folios are going out, some new folios are getting there. Got it, sir. Fair enough, sir. I think that's my only question. Wishing you a great New Year, too. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shiv Kumar from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, can you shed more light on this EKYC Venture? Because in the last call, you said that because of The Supreme Court order on the other issuance, other base issuance, you would be moving to a QR code based system. So what is the progress in that? And how is the general industry coping with the recent changes in the whole other based signing up system. Yes. As I said, they're all waiting for CBL also to launch a new product, which will be seamlessly integrated with the QR code and which we have now done. And this is also released, the QR code base is related month ago or so. So immediately, we started the development and then we launched it. How is industry coping with? Probably they are looking at alternative methods of using a webcam for the what you call the in person verification, okay? And they are also seeing that we will ask them to show On the tab, they will on the left, they will open the on the site, they will open the account and they will confirm it and they take the printout and sign it and then send it to them. And pending that, they may open the Demat account and then whatever the accounts they have to open it, But then they don't allow any debit to take place in the account until the original documents are reached, Okay. So that there's no risk in that sense. They only receive the securities into the Daymat account, but nothing will be moved out unless the original documents are sent. Anyway, power of attorney at this point in time is a requirement for most of the players in the market. So power of attorney has to be collected. So with the data for about 7 days, they are expected to complete this process. Hi, sir. And how does this QR code system work? How easy is it compared to the other base system? No, This is also other which is offline essentially. What we were earlier in this segment is without you knowing that you are moving to other, We are simply you enter your other number and then we send that to our system sends it to the other and then other gives you the what you call a OTP. You enter that and then again our system talks to the Aadhaar and then you get the entire thing downloaded. That's what the online system is working. Now there will be no linking between our system and other, okay? Once you exit it, you our system will take you to the other site and leave you there. Then you enter your things on the other side, whatever number and all that stuff. You get OTP and then They will send you where your QR code base is going to be sent. And then you download it once it is made available, digital design, then you need to give it log into our system and again you upload that QR code. That's That's not my plan. It's not so convenient to the investors. But yes, You have to give me that. You need to exit and then enter. That's the way it is. It sounds a little bit complicated for LMS. Yes. Yes. Thank you, sir. That's it from my side. Thank you. As there are no further questions, I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments. Yes. Thanks to all of you and we hope that we'll be able to do better next quarter. Okay. If markets improve, definitely we'll do better. Thank you. Thanks to all of you. Thank you, Mr. Aditya. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Axis Capital, that concludes this conference call for today. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.