Central Depository Services (India) Limited (NSE:CDSL)
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Sep 25, 2026, 3:15 PM IST
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Q1 18/19

Jul 30, 2018

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the CDSL Limited Q1 FY 2019 investors conference call hosted by Axis Capital Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aditya Bhagwan of Axis Capital Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Aditya Bhagwan
Analyst, Axis Capital

Thank you, Vikram. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, a warm welcome to the 1Q FY 2019 earnings call of Central Depository Services (India) Limited. We have with us the management of CDSL, represented by Mr. P.S. Reddy, Managing Director and CEO, Mr. Bharat Sheth, Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Gaurang Shah, Vice President, and Mr. Nilesh Kittur, Assistant Vice President. I request Mr. Reddy to take us through the result highlights, we shall open the floor for Q&A subsequently. Over to you, sir.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Thank you, Mr. Aditya. Good evening, everybody. Thank you for your continued interest in the stock. This quarter, maybe it's a mixed result for us in the sense the operation income has gone up. In terms of the other income, the investment income has substantially come down because the returns are low. In any case, on all these line item wise, Mr. Bharat Sheth will take you through. I will give you the overview as to how we are doing and what is the roadmap, in the sense, what we expect here to be like. If you see the depository business, currently we have a 70% incremental market share, 71% rather, to be precise, in this quarter. We are currently about INR 1.55 crore demat accounts that we have. That's a reasonably good growth, I would say. We aggregate about 47% market share we have it.

On the IPO front, the dollar number of IPOs compared to the corresponding quarter are more, the size is not very big. The number may be looking big, the number of investors who have applied and number of times the issues got oversubscribed did not get us as much as we thought it will be yielding the income. That's one area probably we have not got as much as we thought we should be achieving. In terms of new businesses that have come, in terms of new activities rather, of course, you are aware that IEPF has been there for the last six months, Investor Education and Protection Fund activity. There we started charging the companies annually. The latest addition for the income stream is the foreign portfolio investor monitoring.

That's also, again, our tariffs are there in the public, about INR 25,000 for the top 500 companies, the rest will be paying INR 10,000 annually. Of course, it's not going to be very big, that's another source of revenue that we are expecting in this current financial year. When it comes to the new initiatives, come to CDSL Ventures Limited. There again, we have done reasonably well. Although the new creations are slightly lower as compared to the last year, the number of hits definitely has gone up, and there we have done reasonably well. The most of the mutual fund investments, of course, all the investment portfolios have gone up. To some extent, the KYCs have gone to the competition, especially the CAMS, which have got captive service centers where they were uploading the data.

Not so much has come from that part. Still, some mutual funds are doing with CDSL Ventures Limited, we have done reasonably well out there as well. The third area is the National Academic Depository. This National Academic Depository is being picking up, gaining momentum as I said last time also, or rather each time whenever I meet investors, I do tell them that till September 2019, we were told not to charge. There won't be much revenues except from verification. Verification will happen if the number of records increase substantially. That is where the government and as well as the depositories both of us working to bring in as many academic records as possible into the depository network or into the fold. That will help us to increase the number of verifications. At this point in time, again, it's minuscule.

It's a project, as I said, it's about 2019 or 2021, we should be able to reasonably say that we are doing well in this space. The commodity repository is one which we have recently launched. I believe some people, again, in private expressed the concern that there is a risk on the depository in terms of commodity. We are guaranteeing, as is the commodity repositories, guaranteeing quality and quantity of the stock that is in the commodity warehouses. I think that is completely a wrong notion that they have. The regulations itself stipulate what the depository will do and what is not its responsibility, especially in terms of quality and quantity. That's very specifically, expressly stated in the regulations.

In that field, NMCE, that is the commodity exchange based in Ahmedabad, has issued a circular saying that the ENWR, electronic negotiable warehouse receipts, kept in the depository or other repository are eligible for delivery on the commodity exchange. Similarly, MCX has issued a circular, not even a week old, informing that the CCRL held ENWRs are valid for delivery. Although it's not going to be a very big business because the deliveries and commodity exchanges are small, we expect it to grow as we go along. More than that, what we are looking at is the pledge by the loan against these commodities by pledging the stock or the ENWRs in favor of banks. That is where we are working, all of us, including the regulators, are working day in and day out to convince banks as to why they should go for it.

Discussions are also on with the Reserve Bank of India, especially the banking regulator, to push for such kind of operation to enable ENWR-based pledging and lending. The other, what you call insurance repository. As you all know that the insurance repository has not taken up, but we are all waiting for the single demat account to come and phase out the insurance repository, which is not doing so well. In the demat account itself, we are expecting the investors to hold all their assets. Probably that will take some more time. Although, maybe on a month-on-month or once in two months, the meetings have taken place at the highest level wherever this needs to be pushed. I expect in the next three months, some kind of changes to happen. That is my belief.

Of course, I am not holding any promise, but these are all regulatory changes. We expect some movement to happen in this front, especially in the form of regulations. The RTA business, which we have taken. You are aware that, it is in the press of course, MCA proposes to admit all the unlisted companies, maybe in phases, into demat. That is what their desire or roadmap is. To begin with, all the public limited companies will be told to, or may be told, not that I can guarantee again, to dematerialize their stock and keep them with either of the depositories. That is going to be a good business opportunity, both for CDSL as well as for CVL under the RTA. So CVL can cater to them as an RTA, and CDSL can be a depository.

That line of business also is expected to come. We are developing an online system for these companies to be admitted seamlessly, and hope that will happen by the end of August, September. That is what our thinking is. Again, it has to be enabled by way of a regulation or circular from the MCA, Ministry of Corporate Affairs. Hope that will also happen within the time frame that I am talking about. With these words, I will now give it to Bharat Sheth for discussing about the financials.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Very warm welcome to CDSL con call. First, I am giving you June 2018 versus June 2017, that is year-on-year basis, consolidated result. The consolidated total income is flat, that is 0.24%, that is from INR 50.45 crores in June 2018 as compared to INR 50.33 crores in June 2017. The operational income increased by 12% from INR 40.55 crores to INR 45.29 crores, which was offset by reduction in other income, where the mark to market gain in June 2017 was INR 520 lakhs, that is INR 5 crore 20 lakhs, which reduced to INR 1.94 crores on the current quarter. However, the reduction in PAT is 14%, that is from INR 25.47 crores to INR 22.02 crores, which was mainly on account of increase in depreciation due to purchase of new premises and reduction on deferred tax effect.

The expenditure was higher by 18% year-on-year basis, that is INR 18.64 crores for June 2017, increasing to INR 22.07 crores for June 2018. Excluding other income, the PAT improved by 6% over June 2017. PBT improved by 6% over June 2017. Consolidated results on quarter-on-quarter basis, that is June 2018 to March 2018. Although the consolidated total income is down by 18%, that is INR 50.45 crores in June 2018 as compared to INR 61.65 crores in March 2018, mainly on account of overall weak market condition and reduction in other income, where the mark-to-market gain in March 2018 was INR 6.4 crores, which reduced to INR 1.94 crores on the current quarter. The reduction in PAT is 15%, that is from INR 26.09 crores to INR 22.02 lakhs, which was controlled by expenditure.

The expenditure was lower by 11% on Q-on-Q basis, that is INR 24.9 crores for March 2018, down to INR 22.07 crores for June 2018. On standalone basis on June 2018 versus June 2017, standalone total income up by 2%, that is INR 40.4 crores in June 2018 as compared to INR 39.52 crores in June 2017. The operational income increased by 12%, from INR 32.48 crores to INR 39.52 crores, which was offset by a reduction in other income, where the mark-to-market gain in June 2017 was INR 3.58 crores, which was reduced to INR 1.02 crores on the current quarter. The dividend income is lower by INR 73 lakhs. The reduction in PAT is 15%, that is from INR 22.73 crores to INR 16.3 crores , which was mainly on account of increase in depreciation due to purchase of new premises and reduction on deferred tax credit.

The expenditure was higher by 18% year-on-year, that is INR 16.79 crores for June 2017, increasing to INR 21.9 crores for June 2018. Excluding other income, the PBT improved by 14% over June 2017. Standalone on the basis of quarter-on-quarter, that is June 2018 to March 2018, the standalone total income is down by 17%, that is INR 40.4 crores in June 2018 as compared to INR 48.85 crores in March 2018, mainly on account of overall weak market condition and reduction in other income, where the mark-to-market gain in March 2018 was INR 3.76 crores, which was reduced to INR 1.03 crores on the current quarter. The reduction in PAT is also 17%, that is from INR 19.5 crores to INR 16.3 crores, which was controlled by controlling the expenditure. The expenditure was lower by 12% on Q-on-Q basis, that is INR 20.96 crores for March 2018, down to INR 18.51 crores for June 2018.

I open the forum for the question and answer session.

Operator

Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourselves from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets when asking a question. To ask a question, please press star followed by one now. We will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have our first question from the line of Atul Mehra from Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company. Please go ahead.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

Yeah. Hi, sir. Good evening, and thanks for the opportunity. Sir, could you talk about the incremental revenue streams that you would expect, given some of these changes like the unlisted companies coming about and one or two other things that you spoke about. Can you broadly talk about what the numbers could be like with these new revenue streams?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Well, we were given to understand that there were about 65,000 unlisted public limited companies, which are expected to come into the stream.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Now, A, how many will be mandated to come in, we do not know at this point in time.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

65,000 public limited companies.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

65,000 unlisted public limited companies.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

Right.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Okay? It's an approximate figure. It could be 1,000 more, 1,000 less, whatever.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Okay? I don't know how many will be mandated to come into the stream, into the dematerialization. Assuming that all of them will come. Okay? If it is not mandatory to admit with both of us, then they choose between CDSL and NSDL. Okay?

Again, it depends on who will go where, and assuming that if it is 50/50%, that's one variable. The second variable is the tariff. Now, tariff is going to be decided by MC. Obviously, this is something on a major scale. They wanted to do it, and nobody should complain. That's what they're desiring. Obviously, CDSL tariff plan will not be applicable, that is for sure, okay, during the course of discussions that they have suggested. He did rather, I would say. What tariff they will decide, I'm not too sure about it at this point in time. I will not be able to say what will be the revenue that will accrue out of this business.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

Right. Sure. Any other revenue streams that you would expect? You spoke about insurance, you spoke about a couple of other things.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

As I said, the corresponding thing to the unlisted companies is the RTA business that CDSL is expected. Again, it depends on those numbers only. Okay? There won't be any much transfers in this area because they are all unlisted. How many people will choose CDSL RTA versus many other big ones, okay?

We do not know again at this point in time. I will not be able to give you unless that particular activity is started.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

Right.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

We are also trying to diversify the e-voting system into various other types of activities. We have been doing only with the companies and shareholder meetings, et cetera. We have also started with the information utility-

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Insolvency

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

insolvency professionals. They are another set of customers who are using it.

We are also moving into the academic institutions where the elections can be held. We have already done Tata Institute of Social Sciences. The student union elections, we have done that. We are trying to see how we can put to multiple users. Again, as I say, acceptability is important. Thanks to the brand name that CDSL has, acceptability comes automatically.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

Right. Maybe for the quarter, sir, could you give the mix of individual line-wise growth? If you were to look at either, say, transaction business or corporate actions. Could you give the split of the INR 50 crore of number?

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

On a year-on-year basis, I think.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

On a year-on-year basis growth and also the absolute numbers.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

See, year-on-year basis on consolidated account, annual issuer charges is increased by 17%, that is June 2017 versus June 2018, I talk.

June 2017, INR 13.44 crore is my annual issuer charges. It is increased to INR 15.67 crore.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

Right. Yeah.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Transaction charges from INR 9 crore-INR 9.66 crore. That is 7% increase.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

Right.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Giving major items only.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

Yeah.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Yeah. Consolidated account statement charges from INR 1.66 crore to INR 2.04 crores. IPO corporate action charges from INR 5.11 crores to INR 5.55 crores, that is increased by 9%.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

INR 5.9 crores, right?

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Yeah.

Online data charges from INR 6.15 crore to INR 6.84 crores. That is 11% increase.

These are the main-

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

Major ones.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Yeah, major ones.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

During this period, the total demat account increase has been how much, sir? On a Y on Y basis, say over 1Q to 1Q?

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Yeah.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Last year, we have opened approximately 25 lakh accounts. 24 lakh plus accounts. One minute.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

Yeah.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

You have that number?

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

In this quarter, means June versus 511. Yeah. March 2018 to this, 511,368 accounts were opened.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

All right.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

So overall-

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

Yeah.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Overall, 1,53,51,426 accounts are there.

Compared to 1,22,67,432 on year.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

1 crore 22. About close to 20%, 25% increase on a Y on Y basis.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Yeah. Overall incremental market share, if you see, that is number of account opens, for this quarter, 71%.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

Right. For the last 12 months would be also quite similar.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Yeah, that.

Atul Mehra
VP, Motilal Oswal Asset Management Company

All right. Sure, sir. That's it from my end. I wish you all the best. Thank you.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Thank you.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Pritesh Chheda from Lucky Investment Managers. Please go ahead.

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

Sir, I wanted to know the status on price increases which come to you on a regulated basis on some of the revenue line items. What is the status there for FY 2019?

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

There are no price increases as such. It is same as of last year. There is no price increase.

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

Okay. What part of your revenue which you gave out, issuer charges, transaction charges would be linked to the market activity?

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Definitely. See, issuer charges, number of folios are going to increase because last year was a good year when more number of IPO and corporate actions were there. There my income has increased 17% compared to last year.

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

Transaction charges also similar, it's linked to market activity?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Yeah, definitely. It linked to market activity.

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

Okay. Lastly, I wanted to know the status on new licenses for getting new depositaries.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

That is third depository you're talking?

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

Yes. There is on and off news flows which come across where talks are there to invite a new depository or issue licenses. What is the status there?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

No, it's like this. What you read maybe in the newspapers based on the Gandhi Committee recommendations. Now that SEBI board has considered the Gandhi Committee recommendations, they are doing away with the concept of a sponsor. In the olden days, the sponsor mean you must be All India Financial Institutions, Stock Exchange, et cetera. Not everybody and anybody qualifies to promote a depository. Now that, what should I say, entry barrier in the form of sponsor requirement has been done away with it. Now, it is yet to come into a regulation, which regulations have to be amended, and it will be made maybe in the next two, three months' time. Now, once that is made, anybody can set up eligible investor. They have replaced it with eligible investor. Now, who is allowed to have a maximum of 15%, so nothing more than 15%.

The regulations are going to be much the same way as for in a stock exchange, like other market infrastructure institutions you call them. Even if a third depository comes, I have always been saying, even if the third depository comes, it's not for them plug and play. The reason is they need to have the depository participant network. Without depository participant network, they cannot operate. Now, today itself, if some of the depository participants feel too, itself is a crowd. If the third one will come, what will it be called? I don't know. Even if a third depository comes, what is the competitive advantage that they have? If the pricing is more between the depositories for which reason they will come? My answer is no. Today, my average transaction charges are INR 5.00. There's no much room for any new entity to come.

Even if, as I said, new entity comes, the depository participants are needed. Each one has to again invest in a third depository also because there is a cost associated with the back office, software development, et cetera. Why would anybody, when the product is by and large identical, why would anyone choose a third depository is the question. But still, if somebody comes, they are welcome. We are not worried in that sense.

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

Okay. Initially in your opening remarks, you mentioned about CAMS uploading the KYC data and which led to slower growth. That you're referring to the online data services revenue stream of yours?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

That's right. Online data, they essentially are KYC. They service the mutual fund investors, isn't it? They will accept the investors' request for buying the mutual fund units, et cetera. When a new investor comes, probably they may be uploading it directly into their KYC CAMS KRA. That's it.

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

This revenue stream is reported in CDSL Ventures, which is a subsidiary of yours, right?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

That's right.

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

Could you just elaborate little bit more what exactly has happened in this revenue stream and industry dynamics actually with CAMS?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

No. Still we are the market leader. We have 1.75 crore, what you call, KYCs. Okay. The KYC usage also is increasing. It's not that we have fallen short. What I'm saying is, we are always there to capture the growth that is happening in various segments. One segment that has grown substantially well is the mutual fund industry. That is more, what should I say, skewed in the sense that only two of the major RTAs are managing that, and the substantial part is the CAMS. To that extent some KYCs have been channeled into the CAMS KRA. To the extent only the mutual fund KRAs, mutual fund KYCs, not the otherwise.

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

Okay. Your observation is that bulk of the growth was in MF KRA, in mutual fund KRA, CAMS has a slightly better dominance, hence the growth was with CAMS and we had a slightly lower growth. That's how.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

That's the way I read it. Still we are number one. They are still far behind. Okay. It's not that they have overtaken our revenue.

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

What is our market share and the size of this market?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

What I learnt is about we have 1.75 crore and maybe the NDML has got 1.7 crore, no, simply 70 lakh, CAMS has got maybe 50, 60, something like that. 50, 60 lakh of KYC.

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

Okay. What total revenue potential in this? Revenue recorded in last year for the whole market share?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Yeah.

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

For us, I think it was about INR 29 crores last year. What it would be for NSDL, CAMS and

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

We will not be able to tell anything about that.

Pritesh Chheda
Analyst, Lucky Investment Managers

No problem, sir. Thank you very much.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Okay.

Operator

Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Prakash Giri from Anavyd Portfolio Management Services. Please go ahead.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

Yeah. Thanks for taking my question. Sir, wanted to get some sense from you. Last year, we added around 25.1 lakh Demat accounts. Typically, what is the timeline for revenue of these accounts? Is it immediate? Is it with a lag? They start with transactions or IPO. What drives these accounts in terms of-

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

IPO is the driver for these accounts to get opened.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

Okay.

That's why most of the time we depend on IPOs. If IPOs come, and more and more, then we will get-

Yes, sure

A good number of these accounts.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Incremental.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

Incremental. At the same time, we will also have a good issuer income also. Folio base will increase. In fact, this year, this quarter rather.

Yeah

Folio base is more than what it was in the corresponding year, last year rather. You can say the number.

Yeah

17% versus 18% is a folio.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Yeah. In FY 2017-2018, we have won around INR 30 crores from folio basis. It has increased to INR 37 crores for 2018-2019. Against 58% of total issuer charges from folio basis, it is increased to 63% from folio-based income.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

Okay. Understood. Sir, you mentioned the mark-to-market impact was INR 1.94 crore in this quarter, right?

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Correct.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

For the investment. What was it last June? I missed that number.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Yeah.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

On a consolidated basis.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

On a consolidated basis, it is from INR 520 lakhs to INR 194 lakhs.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

Okay, INR 520 crores.

It is temporary phase

INR 3.4 crore kind of a lower other income due to this M2M.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Yeah, M2M.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

Okay. Assuming interest rates remain this, you think second half onwards other income should normalize because then the base of interest rates will not be that adverse as we had seen maybe this quarter?

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Yeah. Hopefully.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

Third quarter of other income can aggregate more than that.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

In that case income percentage growth will be more as compared to the first quarter.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

Okay. Going forward, it should be better. Understood. I also missed the figure of online data charges, if you could give me. I heard 6% the revenues up, if you could give me just the absolute number.

Bharat Sheth)
CFO, Central Depository Services

Yeah, done. Against June 2017, INR 6.15 crore against INR 6.85 crore.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

INR 6.85 this quarter. Okay. Lastly, on the unlisted set of companies, would there be clarity in terms of one-time charges, recurring charges? Will it be just as the MCA says, there'll be recurring revenue or there'll be a one-time charge to port them, to take data from them? Any clarity there?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

We will have both the segments. One is application processing fee, so it's a one-time charge. Then on an ongoing basis, year on year, they have to pay.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

Okay, there will be some one-time charge.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Some one-time charge and some recurring charge, annual basis.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

Any thoughts on the regulatory or the MCA side to get, say maybe the private public companies first and then the private set of companies on the unlisted space by the year-end or anything which they have shared? By when do we get clarity on this?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

In two months time, we should get clarity. That's what might be.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

In case the regulator mandates this, we'll see revenue stream maybe in that third quarter itself.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

That's how it works. Yes. Third quarter.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

It happens

yes, it should be. You're right. That will be it. You're right.

Understood.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Thank you.

Prakash Giri
Analyst, Anavyd Portfolio Management Services

Thank you. All the best. I'll come back if I have more questions.

Operator

Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is related to the annual issuer charges opportunity. Currently we have around 10,000 issuers. Out of that, 4,000 issuers are the unlisted ones. What is the tariff plan for the unlisted company that we have now? Is it also regulated by SEBI or, if you see the slab basis, the INR 9,000 per issuer is the lowest slab. Are we charging these unlisted company lower than that, and how it is now, and what do you expect the charges to be for the upcoming opportunity?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

We are charging the same SEBI tariff we are applying it. We don't deviate from that.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

That's the way it is currently we are doing it. Going forward, what will be the tariff and other thing, I think I will not be able to comment at this phase.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Okay. Like you're saying, the tariffs for the listed and the unlisted companies are the same.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

As far as we are concerned, we are applying the same tariff. Okay?

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

So much. That's it.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Okay. Because if you see for NSDL, the number of unlisted companies dematted in NSDL is around 10,000.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Yes.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

There also the tariff structure is according to SEBI or there is some kind of leeway wherein you can charge based on your own discretion?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Yeah. There is a leeway to charge based on our own discretion, because unlisted companies are not regulated by SEBI.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

That's it. Yeah.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

For us to give a justification, we are simply saying, "This is the SEBI tariff you have to pay." Whoever is interested will come, and don't come, it's okay, because there are no transaction charges. Please understand that there are no transactions in these unlisted companies. Whereas, as we understand from the market sources, and then from the tariff card that NSDL has put up on their sites also. They charge only one time, and then there was no annual issuer fee. In the current year, or in the last year sometime, they started charging annual sure charges also. Okay?

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Only just now they started. For all the years there is no such annual issuer charges . Okay. It's just like that.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Okay, sir. Sir, on the transaction charges. How many number of transactions we had? If you can give a comparable figure year-over-year. The number of debits this quarter, then the comparable figure for the last quarter, same year.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

I think generally the confidential information, but it is as compared to the immediately succeeding preceding quarter, it is much lower, no doubt about it. Okay?

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

As compared to the corresponding quarter, it is slightly higher.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Sir, on the mutual fund KYC business, you said that a lot of business is shifting to CAMS, KRA, and eKYC.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

No, not shifting. I think there's a wrong notion probably I may communicated. Not shifting. The new KYC is going there because the industry is, they are integrated in that sense. The CAMS and then their services, RTA services are integrated. Okay?

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

That is the reason, There is a growth in the mutual fund industry, that's why it has gone more there. Okay?

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Sure.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

That doesn't mean we are lagging behind. I'm sure we will also get that piece.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Okay, sir. As per my understanding of the strength of CVL KYC was the in-person verification and the original document verification.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

That's right. Yes.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

That still persists, CAMS also provide these kind of services, or it's like largely online related, eKYC and online submission of documents in CAMS?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Online, we are also providing. We are providing e-sign, we are providing online account opening, et cetera. A lot of people are also using this Aadhaar-based account opening, essentially.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

We are providing it. CDSL has been recognized as a global AUA by the Aadhaar, okay? There's a notification issued by the government. Aadhaar has issued it. There are many issues around Aadhaar number storing and number usage, et cetera. Not that everybody can do this kind of thing. Now that gives a extra strength to the CVL to open more and more KYC records, to do the more and more KYC records.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Okay. We can say that, now the pricing is also a factor there because CAMS is charging less per KYC.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Yes. You are in the industry, so They may be doing it, all that, but then it's fine. That's fine. I have to be fair to my conscience also. Depository participants are doing also good amount of business. Instead of depository participant, I would say the capital market intermediaries are doing good amount of business. I can't discriminate. I don't think anybody is doing it there. Capital market intermediaries are not doing with these registrar and transfer agent as much as they are with us. That's why we

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Do you think that with this Tarang platform coming in, the role of RTA is coming down? That also could be a reason.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Well, I would not be able to comment on somebody else's platform and then its impact on their business. It's not fair. Yes, multiple channels are available for investors to apply for mutual fund investments. So much, the more, the better it is. That's the way I conclude this.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

How do you see it, sir, like the one-time data charges going forward? You expect further drag in the revenues from here on, or do you expect to stabilize?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

I can only see growth, but not even stability or not even a drag. I would say that.

Amit Chandra
AVP, HDFC Securities

Okay, sir. Thank you, sir. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Bye.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Hiten Jain from Invesco Asset Management Company. Please go ahead.

Hiten Jain
Fund Manager, Invesco Asset Management Company

Sir, what % of our KYC business comes from the mutual fund tech? Which are the other major segments?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

We will not be able to give you that breakup. It's not in the public domain.

Hiten Jain
Fund Manager, Invesco Asset Management Company

Okay. Which could be the other areas?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

As I said, the capital market intermediaries.

Hiten Jain
Fund Manager, Invesco Asset Management Company

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

The stockbrokers. All stockbrokers are not my DPs, but every stockbroker has to upload the KYC on one KRA or the other. Isn't it?

Hiten Jain
Fund Manager, Invesco Asset Management Company

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

We have about 1,200 to 1,500 or even more, I don't have exact figure immediately, the market intermediaries are uploading the data in the KRA.

Hiten Jain
Fund Manager, Invesco Asset Management Company

Okay. My second question is on sequential basis, our employee cost is down by 16%. What explains this drop?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Yes, sir. One minute. For the March quarter, what we are providing all the provisions on the basis of actual liability as well as performance-linked bonus and all decides in the month of March. That's why there is a sequential dip.

Hiten Jain
Fund Manager, Invesco Asset Management Company

Are the salary hikes also given in fourth quarter?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

No salary hike. The performance-linked bonus-

Hiten Jain
Fund Manager, Invesco Asset Management Company

Okay

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

they decided in the month of April, when the accounts are being getting finalized in the board meeting of the April. They decide when they're considering the annual accounts, they will decide all these benefits.

Hiten Jain
Fund Manager, Invesco Asset Management Company

Sure. Which quarter would see the wage hike impact?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

No, there is no wage hike. During every two to three years, we are doing wage hike as such. In October 2016, we did it.

Hiten Jain
Fund Manager, Invesco Asset Management Company

Okay. All right. Thanks.

Operator

Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Deepak Shankar from Trustline Portfolio Management Services. Please go ahead.

Deepak Shankar
Analyst, Trustline Portfolio Management Services

Sir, thanks a lot for the opportunity. Sir, just want to understand, what are these motivation for these unlisted companies for joining this demat without even regulation? Currently we see a lot of unlisted companies have come in. What are the motivations for them?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Well, many of the promoters may decide to do it voluntarily. That's one. Second, when they go and then raise the capital from the banks or some, when they go to pledge their stocks for loans and others, the banks insist that you please go to these depositories and then dematerialize. That's the second reason. Third reason is some of these PE investors and others, they insist that you must go for dematerialization, then only we will invest it.

Deepak Shankar
Analyst, Trustline Portfolio Management Services

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

This is kind of the reasons for doing all this.

Deepak Shankar
Analyst, Trustline Portfolio Management Services

Okay. Currently, are we focusing on this segment to add as a new client even before regulation?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Yes, we have been aggressively pursuing the companies. As somebody was pointing out in the meeting, until recently, there is attraction of the tariff on the other side. A lot of companies were going there because they were charging just one-time fee. There is no annual issuer charges that we were doing it. We have been insisting on annual issuer charges. Annuity is important for me also.

Deepak Shankar
Analyst, Trustline Portfolio Management Services

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Now that by and large, the tariffs are on the same footing. There is no competitive advantage in that sense in terms of tariff. Now they are aggressively dealing with us.

Deepak Shankar
Analyst, Trustline Portfolio Management Services

Okay. Any status update on this monetization of academic depositories and insurance repositories?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

No, insurance repository is a non-starter. In fact, the major insurance, major share is by the LIC, who is having about 70% plus of the market share or 75% maybe. They have not joined in this initiative as yet. Okay?

Deepak Shankar
Analyst, Trustline Portfolio Management Services

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

That's why it is not taking off.

Deepak Shankar
Analyst, Trustline Portfolio Management Services

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

When it comes to the National Academic Depository, as I said already, till 2019 September, we are not allowed to charge because that is what the MHRD directive is. More than the payments from the universities and academic institutions, we expect a lot of academic institutions start uploading the data, then the verification takes place. That is where we expect the revenue streams to come. The academic institutions are slow in uploading the data, and that's where we are doing a lot of education to all stakeholders. Government is also actively pursuing it. They are calling for a lot of seminars, meetings, et cetera. That's how they are trying to popularize it.

Deepak Shankar
Analyst, Trustline Portfolio Management Services

These revenue might start before September 2019 itself?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Come again.

Deepak Shankar
Analyst, Trustline Portfolio Management Services

These revenue streams you were talking about verification of

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

No. As I said that maybe till 2020 we have to wait for these things to take off in a reasonable sense.

Deepak Shankar
Analyst, Trustline Portfolio Management Services

Okay. Sure, sir. Thank you on all the questions.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Thank you, sir.

Operator

Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Gautam Gupta from NRC. Please go ahead.

Gautam Gupta
Analyst, NRC

Thank you for taking my question. I just want to know, do we have any idea by when will the tariff structure for NAD be decided?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

NAD?

Gautam Gupta
Analyst, NRC

Tariff structure for NAD.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

NAD will be decided only in sometime in July 2019 or something like that.

Gautam Gupta
Analyst, NRC

Okay.

Also a small question regarding this. We have over 1.55 crore accounts on the demat side. How much would be BSDA out of this?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Well, BSDA accounts, which are about 50% of the accounts.

Speaker 13

Okay.

Gautam Gupta
Analyst, NRC

55 lakh accounts.

Speaker 13

Okay

are approximately BSDA accounts. They generally don't affect us. In fact, BSDA account means that you don't charge the AMC.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Okay? You don't charge the AMC. That's what it means.

Gautam Gupta
Analyst, NRC

Basically the portfolio.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

We don't lose anything because we are not charging anything.

Gautam Gupta
Analyst, NRC

Sure. That is to the details. I understand that. Yeah. Sir, last question, slightly speculative, if you'll permit me. We hear a lot of possibilities in terms of e-governance, land record digitization. Anything that we see coming up in the next two, three years for us in terms of new revenue streams?

Speaker 13

We have been constantly pursuing at various levels for new businesses.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

It takes time to fructify. Another important thing is there are a lot of stakeholders and when we say stakeholders, I would also include vested interests also in that stakeholders. Okay? Sometimes they don't allow the things to digitize and non-transparency helps some of these projects.

That's why there is something holding back. NAD uploads, NAD records are not getting uploaded in academic institutions because there are some courses which do not want this to be completely digitized.

If everything is this way, who will go to the universities and then ask them for the certificate?

It's like that. It will take time. It is a transformation that is a challenge for us, and we are in the business of transformation, and we will do it successfully.

Gautam Gupta
Analyst, NRC

Great. Okay, thank you so much, sir. That's it from my side.

Operator

Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Nilesh Doshi from Prospero Tree. Please go ahead.

Nilesh Doshi
Analyst, Prospero Tree

Hello. Thanks for providing an opportunity. Sir, my question is related to CDSL. When RTA activities will be commercially started, and how big is this activity?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

I can say that it will be commercially started. In fact, we have soft launched, and we have not done anything at this point in time, but we are expecting these unlisted companies to be admitted into demat. This will happen parallelly along with that. How big is the opportunity? Probably, I will not be able to hazard a guess here. It's not fair. I would only say that it's a good opportunity that we can take off. It will add some revenue, reasonable, decent amount to our line of business.

Nilesh Doshi
Analyst, Prospero Tree

Okay, sir. Sir, second question. How many companies have been appointed CDSL as dedicated depository for monitoring the FPI limitations?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Okay. It is on our website. You can see that how many companies for which we are doing it. It's about 1,700 plus companies are the ones which are doing it. Okay?

Nilesh Doshi
Analyst, Prospero Tree

Okay.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Almost all, about 3,500 companies so far, or less than that, 3,200 companies only have given this kind of mandate. Almost all half of it is with us in that sense.

Nilesh Doshi
Analyst, Prospero Tree

Okay. Half of which is with the CDSL. That's good, sir. Sir, last question. How much KRA is registered in the Q1 and what is the growth rate?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

One minute. I will check. Essentially, KYC, right?

Speaker 14

That is 1,70,000. 1,74,000. 3.38.

Nilesh Doshi
Analyst, Prospero Tree

March 2018 quarter, 170,000 KYC was there. It has increased to 1,744,722.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

440,000 we have.

Nilesh Doshi
Analyst, Prospero Tree

440,000. Sir, in KRA business, the CDSL is number 1 in the market. Am I right, sir?

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

You're absolutely right.

Nilesh Doshi
Analyst, Prospero Tree

Okay, sir. Thank you, sir.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

P.S. Reddy
MD and CEO, Central Depository Services

Yeah. Thanks to all of you for sparing your valuable time and showing your interest in the company. I hope you'll continue to show this interest in the company, and we will continue to improve our performance, and we'll try to do better each quarter. God willing. Thank you. Thanks to all of you.

Operator

Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Axis Capital Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining with us, and you may now disconnect your lines.