Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the CDSL Q4 FY '25 Conference Call hosted
Ladies and gentlemen, please note that CDSL does not provide specific revenue or earnings
Yeah, thank you, Operator. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of HDFC Securities, we welcome you all to the CDSL Q4 FY2025 earnings call. Today, we have with us the management team of CDSL, represented by Mr. Nehal Vora, MD and CEO, Mr. Girish Amesara, Chief Financial Officer, and other senior leaders. We will start with a brief overview of the quarter by Mr. Nehal Vora, and then we will open up the floor for the Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
First of all, I'd like to thank Amit and the HDFC Securities team. A very, very good afternoon and welcome to everyone. I hope each of you and your loved ones are safe and healthy. Thank you for joining us today to discuss CDSL's financial results for the final quarter and the year ending March 31, 2025. We have posted a detailed investor presentation on our website for reference. I'm joined by the CDSL Group's leadership team, including the CEOs of all the subsidiaries. Let me start with the industry highlights and then take you through to some of the key aspects for our performance.
Financial year 2025 has been a record year for CDSL, with revenues reaching an all-time high of INR 1,199 crore, approximately INR 1,200 crore, and an annual profit of INR 526 crore, with a year-on-year growth of about 25% on the consolidated profits. The Indian capital markets have experienced some amount of movement, volatility in the wake of circumstances. However, despite these fluctuations, the markets had achieved a historic milestone of crossing the highest-ever market capitalization of $5.7 trillion in September 2024. The average daily turnover has surged by about 37% in FY25, reaching about INR 1,20,000 crore.
This growth is reflected in the growth of demat accounts in this year. India has added about 4.1 crore demat accounts in the year, taking the total to about 19.24 crore as of 31st March 2025. CDSL has experienced a 32% growth in the number of demat accounts, reaching a total of 15.29 crore and enjoying a market share of about 79%. To further enhance our offerings for investors, CDSL introduced the unified features in the investor app, myeasi, earlier in the year. The significant update allows investors to access their information across market infrastructure institutions in one place.
I'm also pleased to announce that electronic consolidated account statements have been successfully integrated in various apps also as on a first-page list. CDSL also successfully executed the second edition of the CDSL Annual Symposium in February, where the theme is "Reimagine CapTech and the Future of Capital Markets." We were honored to have the late ISRO Chairperson, Dr. K. Kasturirangan, as a chief guest. It was his last public event. I would like to reaffirm that CDSL's focus remains on enhancing the capital market ecosystem by enhancing efficiency, trust, and transparency.
We are focusing on a Hashtag Atmanirbhar Investor-focused approach while striving for innovation, resulting in consistent and sustainable financial and business performance. Before I hand it over to our CFO, I'd just like to say that the growth of the Indian securities market over the past year has been extremely encouraging, and it showcases India's potential and a journey towards a bigger Bharat.
The market, with its ebbs and flows, has shown incredible strength even in this quarter, as we owe it to a strong ecosystem of DPs that are constantly faith in us. My appreciation and gratitude to all our stakeholders, our regulators, depository participants, issuers, investors, all other market participants, market infrastructure institutions, and all employees. Thank you, and over to you, Girish.
Thank you, Nehal. Good morning and good afternoon to all of you.
Sorry to interrupt, sir. You're sounding a little distant. Can you come closer to the microphone, please?
Yeah, I'm here. I'll start speaking on consolidated numbers first. Speaking on the consolidated quarterly performance, the total income for the quarter ended March 2025 is at INR 256 crore, as against INR 267 crore for the corresponding quarter of the previous year. The net profit for the quarter ended March 2025 is at INR 100 crore, as against INR 129 crore for the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Speaking on consolidated yearly numbers for the year ended March 2025, the total income has increased by 32% to INR 1,199 crore, as against INR 907 crore for the previous financial year.
The consolidated net profit has increased by 25% to INR 526 crore, as against INR 420 crore during the previous financial year. Now, I'll speak on standalone numbers. On standalone basis, the total income for the quarter ended March 2025 is at INR 205 crore, which is at a similar level compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year. The net profit for the quarter ended March 2025 is at INR 81 crore, as against INR 97 crore for the corresponding quarter during the previous year.
Speaking on standalone yearly numbers for the year ended March 2025, the total income has increased by 33% to INR 985 crore, as against INR 743 crore during the previous financial year. The net profit has also increased by 27% to INR 462 crore, as against INR 363 crore during the previous financial year. Now, I will request Mr. Sunil Alvares, MD and CEO of CDSL Ventures Limited, to take us through the CDSL performance. Over to you, Sunil. Thank you.
Yeah, thank you, Girish. Good afternoon, everyone. For CDSL's performance for 31 March 2025 concerned, there was an increase in income by 35% from INR 188 crore to INR 254 crore. The expenditure increased by 42% from INR 76 crore to INR 108 crore, and the profit for the year was increased by 28% from INR 86 crore to INR 109 crore. With this, I'll open the floor for question and answers.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We'll take a first question from the line of Supratim Datta from Ambit. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the cost side. The technology cost for FY 2025 in the Q4 was similar to what you had spent on an annual basis in FY 2023. Could you help us understand where is this technology spend really going towards? What proportion of this would be recurring versus what proportion of this would be one-time? That would be very helpful. I understand you have talked about technology costs previously as well, but given the magnitude of increase here, some kind of granularity would be very helpful for investors. The second question would be on the KRA business.
Recently, the Finance Secretary Shri had indicated that a centralized KYC system is being implemented, and it could be in practice pretty soon. In that scenario, what is the benefit of a KRA system, or would the KRA system get consumed within this CKYC, which gets implemented across the board? How would that impact our CDSL's pricing ability? If you could give us some color on that, that also would be very helpful. Lastly, on the dividend payout. Now, the dividend payout ratio was around 50% versus 55%-60%. Any reason for a reduction there given you are not using that much of cash? Those were my three questions. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you, Supratim. First, on the technology spend, I have been saying that we are in the process of building and consolidation. It is all on all the four aspects with the hardware, that is the infra, the applications, the security, and the connectivity. That is a process which we are going through to obviously bring in newer tools and techniques so that the market can really benefit from better tools and technology. Speed would go up, etc. The intent being is that we are a market infrastructure company, and technology is one of the key building blocks.
It would need a continuous assessment of newer tools and newer techniques so that the market will benefit from that. I do not think we gave out in the public domain as to what is the one-time versus a recurring expense. We have kind of maintained a steady percentage as part of the revenue on the technology cost. Basically, the regulators' expectations also have been to ensure that the newest technology is being deployed while this is a policy launch. From our end, we continuously assess and improve upon our technology infrastructure on a very, very serious note.
As regards the second question on KRA, it's a process which is the same interview of the Finance Secretary also talks about the efficiency of the existing system. We will have to wait and watch how that really pans out because it's yet not come out. It is all work in progress. We will see how it goes. I'm sure that all the aspects will be taken into consideration before we move forward.
The third one on the dividend payout, I think there has been a calculation error here.
We are about 61% [Crosstalk] 61.3% payout. We have continued to maintain our policy guidance on dividend payout at 60% of our operating profit. In fact, it is slightly more than that this year. Thank you.
Okay. Just one follow-up on the technology bit. I do understand you do not give out the recurring and non-recurring. Can you give us the split of your hardware? How much of this spend would be on hardware versus application?
We don't give that because, see, there is—I will tell you why we don't give it, Supratin, because it's a combination. It's a fusion cost. You cannot segregate what is infra versus application. There is some which is mixed cost. It would not create the right differentiation, and it is not right to even differentiate. The important thing is to ensure that the systems remain strong and the systems remain modern. Whatever it takes to do that, that has been our intent, whether it is at the hardware end, network end, security end, or the application end. Whatever it takes to ensure that intent is complete.
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Maybe let me ask it in this way: where are you in this journey of modernization? Is the modernization complete or are you 60%, 70%? Where are you in this modernization journey now?
I think you can ask any company. Nobody will say they are completely there in the modernization process because it's a process of continuous change. The largest companies also are continuously changing. Techniques evolve, methodologies evolve, products evolve, and tools evolve. I think it is in a constant state of work in progress because the intent is to ensure that the modern infrastructure is provided to our clients and to the market.
Got it. Got it. The dividend payout ratio that you are saying, is that on the standalone or is it on the console?
Stand alone. It is stand alone.
Okay. Got it. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. Just extending the question of the previous participant on technology. How much of it is going towards capacity build-up, and how much of it is towards efficiency build-up? The reason I am asking that is the capacity build-up spend would probably be like a one-time spend or a spend that would get added and then probably will come again once you have reached those thresholds. Is there a spend towards capacity build-up, or is it purely for efficiency build-up?
I look at it is that there's a proverb in Hindi saying that, [Foreign Language] Intent is efficiency. Whether that is due to capacity build-up because efficiency is also a function of ensuring adequate capacity. It's not only capacity. It's about ensuring how the application works. It's how the security works. It's a combination of what? The intent is ensuring efficiency. Intent is ensuring modern infrastructure. Intent is ensuring the modern tools so that the market and the stakeholders are always subject to the newest form of technology. It's a process of really, really evolution.
If I look back at our journey also five years, six years ago, technologies used there have completely changed as we have moved. The market participants have not known that the change which has happened. It's a continuous process of change which has happened to ensure that the market is subject to the newest and the most modern tools and products.
Is it fair to assume that as a percentage of revenue, this would sustain? I know you do not give forward-looking guidance, but for us, it becomes very important to understand whether we should model it as a percentage of revenue or how should we look at it?
You should look at our past and then take a call. I'm sorry. I actually would not be able to give you the future because we don't do future guidance at the quality.
Sure. The other question is on the online KYC business. Could you explain it to me how much of it is coming from demat accounts and how much is it coming from non-demat accounts? It's purely demat accounts.
See, if you really look at the KYC business, for us, it is very difficult to say what the budget pertains to the demat or say to a mutual fund account because when an entity fetches it, he could be a broker who's also having demat who's also a DP for demat services. Whether he's opening it, whether he's opening it for mutual fund or whether he's opening for securities, I don't know because the investor may be taking a delivery of the mutual fund in the physical form. It is very difficult to give you that answer.
Prayesh, in addition to Sunil answered, I think the intent is again that CDSL is being built to stand on its own two feet. Whether it is demat account or non-demat account, the intent is it should be independent enough to stand on its two feet. That is how we have really progressed. If you see the way both these, despite being 100% subsidiary, we give it the requisite freedom, flexibility to grow to ensure that the shareholders of CDSL are benefited by both the growth, not only of CDSL but of CDSL also.
Any other adjacencies that you're looking at to kind of get into on the BFSI space where you can
That is again a process of future. It is all very regulation-driven. I think as the journey of India is really embarking on public infrastructure moving to a technology base, the process is something which we are all basically hopeful in the future. How much that will impact what products, all that is all futuristic. It is all regulation-driven. It is how the regulation policymakers will kind of create that framework in which it will pan out. I think the overall theme and the trend is that more and more people are joining into this hold, and that is what we all have to hope for and pray for.
Okay. Last question on the charges for both transaction and the issuer charges. Any representation to the regulator, especially for the issuer charges, to increase the prices or anything that you can let us know?
It is all again between us and the regulator. We don't generally reveal that in the public domain. As and when a final call would be taken, that would be kind of announced to the market. We will all have to wait till then.
Got it. Thank you and all the best.
[Crosstalk] Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thanks for the opportunity. First question is only KYC revenue. There has been a fall in the last few , and it is because of the market slowdown and the account charges. If you see our account numbers, it has been increasing over the last Q2 . In the KYC charges, if you can provide some color in terms of what has led to that default, is it the fetches have come down considerably, or is it because of any other being in terms of discounts being given to the brokers in this? If you can provide some breakup of the fetch versus account opening in the online data charges.
Before I ask Sunil to answer, I think overall the market volumes, delivery volumes, growth in demat accounts has all seen a muted response we've seen in the Q4 . I think that is kind of the overall impact on CDSL also. I'll ask Sunil to take that question now.
Yeah. Like what Nehal just said, the number of accounts anyway has dropped, not only in the last quarter, but in the last few , we've seen a drop in account opening, also with mutual fund investments and also with IPOs which have come in in the last Q2 . Typically, even if the account openings would have gone up, it could be more because of some fetch records, etc. Overall, we've seen the number of records itself which are created have fallen down, as well as the number of fetch records also have fallen significantly. That's what has led to the drop in income.
Okay. In terms of the fall, what I was trying to understand is it more from the fetch activity, because as far as my understanding goes, fetch was 70%-80% of the overall revenue. Has that come down significantly in terms of the mix?
It's more or less in line with what is the creation. In terms of percentage, it's almost the same, you could say.
Okay. Also, in terms of the IPO and corporate action, obviously, it is market-linked and there has been a sharp fall. Still, in terms of the mix between the IPO and the corporate action revenue, what explains the sharp fall? Is it only IPO, or is it the combination of both? Is there any component in this revenue stream which is recurring kind of?
No. It's actually directed towards CDSL. I think we don't look at it as a corporate action. We look at it more as everything as a corporate action in CDSL. Maybe Nehal would like to answer that.
Yeah. Yeah. Could you repeat that very last part? I couldn't hear your last sentence.
I was just trying to understand that the mix between the IPO and the corporate action in this piece and what has led to the fall maybe in the last Q2 . Is it a combination of both, or any one part has gone down significantly?
It is overall market impact and impacted across both those teams. We do not give that different categories in the public domain. To answer your question, it is the overall impact of the market.
Okay. In the annual issuer charges, obviously, we do not give forward-looking guidance, but what has been the, in terms of the number of folios in this year till March? You see the impact of this in next year. Also, has there been any increase in the unlisted revenue, and what unlisted revenue did we book for this full year in FY 2024?
Yeah. To answer that, we have disclosed that in the Q1 , and throughout the Q4, it almost remains the same. We have disclosed that 2,276 folios that we had built.
For the revenue for unlisted for this full year, I want to.
Unlisted revenue for the full year is at INR 35.95 crore, so almost INR 36 crore.
Okay. Okay. Obviously, lastly, on the insurance piece, we have finally tied up with LIC. Any progress on that? If you can show some more color on that.
I'll ask Latesh to answer.
Yeah. Hi, Latesh here. Basically, it's just the sign-up which has happened, integration work is in progress. We are expecting that.
I'm sorry, sir. You're sounding very distant.
Yeah. LIC sign-up has happened between CDSL and integration work is in progress. We are expecting LIC to provide us the resources to do the integration work there.
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Nuvama Wealth Management. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for taking my question. Just on that number that you just said, INR 2,276 crore, is that number correct?
Of course, yes.
No, no. I was not clear on the number. So that is the number of demat. That is the number of folios, which is basically number of scripts into the demat accounts. I wanted to understand the context of that number.
See, it was SEBI circular. You have to raise the bill based on either flat basis or on the folio listing. Now, this folio, how it has to be worked out, it is an average of the price it's done full year, which is held in any demat account for any company.
Understood. Okay. Got it. And then I'm not sure whether you gave the unlisted revenue number for FY 2025.
I just gave. I just said unlisted revenue from issuer is INR 36 crore, around INR 36 crore for the full financial year.
Got it. Got it. This quarter, we saw a little bit of jump in that number from you were doing about INR 81 crore, but we read about INR 87 crore. Is there any one-time sort of processing fee, etc., in this quarter or on an overall sort of basis? A lot of unlisted companies have also come into demat this year. Is there any one-time processing fee in the annual issuer charges that if you could share that something?
For unlisted companies, we charge a one-time processing fee of INR 15,000 per company.
Okay. What would that total number be?
To answer your question, it's again a combination of both, more companies coming on, and it's actually that more companies are coming into the field. That continues as our journey as well.
Got it. Got it. That is it from my side. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Santosh Keshri from SKK HUF. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for taking my question. Can you hear me?
Yes, we can hear you. Please go ahead.
Okay. Yeah. Hi, Nehal. I have been a shareholder since 2015, and I have been really looking at the performance of the company for a long time. I have two questions. One is about insurance repository, where we can see that our nearest competitor is enjoying a market share of more than 40% now, and they are having additions of something like 10 million policies with EIA accounts close to 10 million or so EIA accounts. Somehow, we do not see the same kind of performance and same kind of gain in CDSL repository. Also, our PowerPoint presentation about insurance repository did not cover much of the details. It just gives a little bit of numbers.
It does not say what is the revenue that we are earning, how many general insurance companies we have tied up. Last quarter, we said that we have tied up with 48 companies. This quarter, we are saying the number has reduced. My point is that we are sort of not given extra numbers for us to assess the business, or maybe the business is not being given full attention in terms of better performance and the kind of action that we are seeing in the market. That does not seem to be happening here. I am concerned from the point of view of being a long-time shareholder. That is my first question.
Sure. Sure. You want to finish both questions, and I can answer that?
The second question is a little longer. Let's discuss this, and then I'll come to the second question.
The first question is Latesh Shetty , who's the MD of the insurance repository. Before I hand it over to him to answer, our intent is, like any infrastructure business, we spend a lot of time in ensuring that the platforms, the technology, etc., becomes robust. It links up well with the relevant stakeholders. That takes time on both sides to ensure it needs to be planned, tested, etc. Therefore, that time is taken before it. We believe in a philosophy that once you are in it, you try to give the best product, take time in kind of planning, but once you're in it, so that the confidence and trust of the stakeholders. I'll just hand it over to Latesh to take that.
Yeah. Hi. Am I audible?
Not much clearer, sir.
Yeah. Okay. Actually, if you look at the past performance, we are in this business for almost 14 years. Again, the insurance business is also the repository business, we also regulate it with. The initial 10-12 years, we were hoping that repository as a product would be made mandatory by the respective regulators. We still await and are hopeful that in future, that guidelines may come in. Yes, since this is not a mandatory subject, we have been limiting our investments on this business. Last year, there have been a lot of changes which have happened.
Apart from the three revenue streams from which the business comes, we have now opened up the direct portal for the end policyholders to come and directly open their accounts. That has seen some traction. We have not yet started the digital marketing there. Yes, the voluntary growth has started coming in. Just to give you some flavor, you mentioned briefly about the competitors as well.
To give a context of the insurance business, it is all in public domain. Annually, the country churns out some 300 million policies. All the IRs put together, we have just crossed 20 million. 90% of the market is still up for grabs. That is what we are strategizing on. You will see the positive outcomes in the end results. That is all.
That's right. We haven't got an app also, something like a digital app, which can be. Our competitors have already launched an app. The thing with this kind of thing is with the app and connectivity and network effect that you get by getting new customers. The more new customers you have, the better acceptability is there for the newer customers to come and get into our platform. All I'm saying is that we are missing a lot of action here. Maybe something can be done, and better details can be given in the PowerPoint presentation shortened quarterly update. That would be really helpful.
Santosh, if you come into my recent website, cdsl.co.in, I think you haven't seen it out yet. It has been a complete revamp from what was there last year. We have a web-responsive application. Yes, you are right. We do not have a mobile app per se, but our portals are web-responsive, and it is visible on the mobile as well. I take your point. That is for us to share about.
Okay. Thank you so much. Now, my second question is about the direction that the company is going towards, Nehal. One is that we do not charge anything for the demat account. We say that we have 15 crore odd demat accounts. We have a huge amount of cash in our books, INR 1,500 crore, for which there does not seem to be obvious usage, what usage it is going to be put to. The analyst community and the user community have been talking about this in almost every call. It looks like there is no clarity in terms of the annual report or the presentation that comes out after the quarterly results.
Every time we get to hear that the board of directors will decide, and you do not make a specific statement. That is what we get to hear. We also get to hear that the extra amount of technology expenses that we have for a stable infra institution, something like the technology expenses went up by almost 70% compared to last year. Our operational metrics also have been going down. This year, our PT margin is something like 50%. Last year, it was 61%. Quarter on quarter, it is even worse. Are we settling? My question is that are we settling into some kind of happy infrastructure institution and nothing beyond?
We do not want to go further beyond this. A lot of action is happening on the digital side. A lot of action is happening on the market side. Our associate VC is doing so well in terms of not only share price, but in terms of the lot of regulatory forbearance they got, a lot of marketing action that is happening. The new CEO over there, he has really changed the company. Same kind of thing I'm not seeing in CDSL. I'm not trying to express any kind of disappointment to the company. I'm just trying to express my feeling that we are heading in a certain direction here. Maybe we need more better communication. If you can clarify that.
Santosh, you need to see that various communications. I think it is your opinion. I do not think that is the opinion of people who I meet, and certainly not the opinion of what is in the mind of CDSL as a management and also support. We have a very specific focus. Otherwise, in the last five years, we would not have grown from 1.8 crore demat accounts to 15.5 crore. These numbers cannot just happen out of thin air. It needs a lot of planning, and there is a lot of behind-the-scenes planning. Second is the revenue profits that you see for the last five years has gone through a significant uptick.
That can only happen when you are focused on what you want to do and how you want to do it. Third is the number of shareholders who have been there for the last five years, who were there, total number of shareholders who were invested in CDSL has grown by multiple times over the last five years. This also would not have been there if the shareholder interest and maximization principle focus was not a part of CDSL's core activity. Now, these numbers show a different picture than the conclusion which you are trying to draw. I think you need to look at it from that perspective. Number of employees have grown in CDSL.
The importance and the brand of CDSL has grown very stronger. All these are clear indicators that if there was no focus, there was no thing on how we are taking it forward, we would have continued to remain at the same levels as in 2019, which is not too far away. It is just about five years away. T
he fact that quarter on quarter, despite markets going through its ups and downs, we continue to grow in terms of number of demat accounts, number of people wanting to become a part of the CDSL ecosystem clearly showcases that this is with a customer-centric focus. Otherwise, this would not have happened. I would really like to urge you to rethink on your conclusion because these metrics do not show the conclusion which you are trying to draw.
Thank you, Nehal. The thing is that though we are being customer-centric, are we also being shareholder-friendly? If that is also being taken into account, it will be really helpful. I do not want to go beyond that. That is something I wanted to highlight.
If you see again metrics on shareholders, one-to-one bonus, highest dividends year on year. This year also, we had the highest dividend. If you see, if you factor in the one-to-one bonus, it's INR 25 share if you want to compare it to previous year. It's INR 10.50 share. You have to multiply it by two to compare it with the previous years. It is the all-time high dividend which has been given.
Despite last year, we had given 19, which was a 60% profit plus a three-year special dividend because of 25 years. This was taking into consideration the shareholder interest. We have beaten that also this year because it's INR 22, which was last year with a three-year special dividend for 25 years. This year, we're giving a INR 25 dividend to shareholders. Had we not been shareholder-centric also, these numbers would not have come in.
Yeah. Got it, Nehal. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Siddharth S. from Vitti Money. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thanks for the opportunity. My main thing as a concern would be that the Q2 of your company last year did really well. There has been a dip in terms of both YoY and QOQ quarter. You can just highlight what led to it and what the trajectory going forward would be and on an approximate number-wise map, what growth rate can we expect in CDSL's overall management as a whole?
One is, Siddharth, we don't give future guidance. I don't want to answer what is the future. It is for each shareholder to assess for themselves. To your question on why Q2 was higher and Q3, Q4, it's because the overall market volumes have dropped. The delivery-based volumes have dropped. An important metric which one needs to look at is the delivery-based volumes on the stock exchanges, which shows the market participation, which culminates into delivery. That's what is important from a depository standpoint. Our business is in long-term. Products are that people take more and more share into delivery.
That's how we are promoting a culture of also people staying long-term in markets. Also, as an infrastructure institution, it's important to understand that we are building the right building blocks so that when we saw the spurt in volumes during COVID and post-COVID, CDSL was able to withstand that higher volume and continue to work seamlessly. I think that is where our focus and interest is. Under all circumstances, we have to keep on ensuring the value proposition to the market. When the market volume spurts, the infrastructure should be equipped to handle that excess volume. That's where our focus is.
Got it, sir. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. The delivery-based volumes have led to the entire dip process. Do you have any idea on how going forward it might be if you would be willing to share any, I mean, insights or any idea on that?
No, Siddharth, we don't give future guidance. Actually, had I even known, you and I would not need to work any longer because if we all can predict what the volumes are going to be, it's a cumulative thing of the entire market participation. That's something for us to wait and watch.
Got it, sir. Thank you a lot for the opportunity.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Sanketh Godha from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, initially, a few data keeping points. Can you spell out cash income, e-voting income, and pledge income in the current quarter, and also the impairment cost?
Yeah. The list is here .
The cash statement was around INR 11 crore in the quarter. E-voting was around INR 6 crore. You also wanted the data provision, right?
Yeah. Provision cost, impairment cost, and the pledge income.
Sure. Impairment was INR 8.8 million in this quarter, and pledge income was INR 54 million.
5.40 crore. Okay. Sir, the second question was, sir, you alluded to the point that the number of folios at the start of the year was 2,276 crore. Just if you can tell me how it grew compared to the previous year. I just wanted to reconfirm the point that this 2,276 crore was based on number of average folios of 24 that got reflected in 25. Given the number of IPOs were so strong in 25, is it fair to say that the number of folios surely would have gone up because of more listing and that will get more reflected in 26 as a growth in the annual issue charges?
Sanket, previous year, what we had disclosed, it was at INR 19.50 crore. Current year, it is INR 22.76 crore.
Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Sir, the point what I'm trying to make is that given that 22.76 crore was reflected as the last number of folios, which naturally would have grown because of the number of IPOs, the benefit will be more reflected in the next year, sir?
Yes. Possibly.
Okay. Okay. The third thing, sir, just means if I look at cash ADTO, quarter on quarter, it declined by 18%, 8% for the country, BC and AC put together, cash ADTO. If I look at our transaction income, it has dipped by 17% QOQ. There seems to be a divergence, typically is not there. I just wanted to understand what led to more fall in transaction income compared to the fall in cash ADTO.
See, Sanketh, when we closely monitor the delivery volumes of exchanges with our billable transactions, we don't see that kind of slowdown or decrease compared to what it is. What we see is the delivery volume and the billable transaction moves hand in hand. That's what we see from the historical data that we have.
The reason why I was asking this question was that, sir, have we seen any market share loss with respect to transaction income because our decline seems to be a little more compared to CDSL, what we can see from the public information?
We don't know the billable transactions of our competition. We only track what is there at our end. You have to compare it with the overall volumes of the.
Okay. Got it, sir. Got it, sir. Perfect. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Parimal Mithani from Credential Investments. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you and good afternoon.
Good afternoon.
Sir, I just wanted to know a couple of quarters back, you had mentioned about account aggregator thing. Can you give a highlight on where are we and what is the progress in terms of that? Secondly, sir, in your CDSL Ventures, you do e-sign and e-KYC. Is there a further scope for expanding that services?
Could you just repeat that final part? That was not so clear, Parimal.
In your CDSL Ventures, you do e-sign and e-KYC. I think there's a significant fraction in both of that. If you can expand, how do you plan to go ahead?
Yeah. We don't give future guidance, but I'll ask Sunil to answer the second question. Before that, on the first question on the account aggregator, we are part of the account aggregator framework. There is something called an FIP or Financial Information Provider. CDSL was first amongst the kind of the ecosystem at the securities market, one of the first which has become a part of this FIP.
We have been continuously giving that. That is what our role is. Wherever data is requested by investors through the FIU or Financial Information User, it gets routed to the account aggregator and comes to us, and we provide that information after ensuring the relevant security checks, etc. That is what our role is. I'll ask Sunil to answer the second.
I think earlier came from them. Is there any or is just add-on aggregated service?
Yeah. Where we do add-up now is not yet been there. It is in the process of getting formulated because these are really early days. I think there is some discussion which is going on, but how much it will fructify and all that is yet to be seen.
Okay. Okay.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and one on your phone.
No, I think the second part of this question is left, Sunil. You can answer.
Yeah. On the second part, with regard to the traction, what you're seeing on the e-sign and the e-KYC business, is that so far as e-KYC is concerned, the intermediary like DPs, etc., need to be registered as a Sub-KUA. Currently, they are using Digilocker for these services, but we are seeing some intermediaries who have registered recently. Once they start off in this financial year, we will see more revenues coming in from there.
On the e-sign business, the way it functions is that we do not tie up with the end customer who's a participant or a broker, but there is a third-party service provider who gives the entire onboarding solution to the end client. E-sign is just a part of it. Basically, we have tied up with a couple of such third-party service providers, and we are looking at adding more such service providers. Once we add some more, definitely, we'll see an increase in income out there as well.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Sanketh Godha from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity, Nehal. Sir, one small clarification. You said 22.76 million folios. If I multiply by INR 11, the revenue comes at INR 2.5 billion, but what we reported is INR 3.26 billion. The difference between INR 2.5 billion and INR 3.26 billion is predominantly explained by what, sir?
See, Sanket, you have to look at the SEBI circular. We have to build the company based on folio and the capital both. Apart from that, we have unlisted companies also. Everything put together is the final number which is there as an annual issuer income. What you had immediately limited, what you had asked was only the folios.
Right. Okay. Okay. So basically, where you charge the fixed fees and basically what you charge for the listed companies, which could be much higher compared to the number of folios what they have, explains the difference between two numbers, right, sir?
Yes, sir. It's a combination of both.
Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it. Perfect, sir. Yeah. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and one on your phone now. We'll take our next question from the line of Mohit Surana from HDFC AMC. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Can you also, the way you gave 22.76 crore number for the last year, could you give the number for this year?
That would be possible only in next quarter.
Okay. Okay. Understood. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Swarnabha Mukherjee from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity.
Yes, please.
I'm sorry. Mr. Swarnabha 's line is disconnected. Participants who wish to ask a question are requested to press star and one. We'll take a question from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. This is a bookkeeping question on the other income. What drove the sequential improvement in other income so much? Could you give us a breakdown of your investment in terms of where all the money is spent?
Other income is largely constituting of CAS charges , e-voting income, e-sign income, and investment income. The investment income is largely based on investment in fixed deposits, investment in mutual funds, debt schemes, and investment in bonds. These are all based on an investment policy approved by the board.
Okay. The last part of the jump in the other income in the quarter is mainly because of the mark-to-market , is that fair rate was given on the debt side?
Yes.
Okay. Got that. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Swarna Mukherjee from B&K Securities . Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Good afternoon. Am I audible?
Yes. Can you move your handset mode, please, Swarna?
Yeah. Is this better?
Yeah. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, I just wanted to understand on the IPO corporate action part for the INR 25 crore we have reported this quarter. This would be mainly some corporate action, right? I mean, I just wanted to know that this INR 25-odd crore number, how much would be a seasonality across the quarter, if the Q2, Q3 much more heavier, if you can give some indication based on the trends seen in the last two, three years?
I'll ask the CFO to answer .
The IPO corporate action income is largely based on the IPOs that come in the market. It is directly linked with the market activity in terms of the IPO that gets processed during the quarter. If you ask us a seasonality, it is directly related to the market.
Yeah, also.
Right. Yes, sir. Please go ahead.
You have to look at the past to see which quarter has more. I don't think there's any specific trend in that. It depends on market.
Right, sir. I'm just trying to understand that since in Q4 , since you don't give the breakup of IPO and corporate action in this Q4, I think the contribution of IPO income would be quite negligible. Just to understand only the revenue from the corporate action. This is a 25 crore number, is a good number to work with.
I just wanted to understand that if I were to think about the same head only from the corporate action, Q2 and Q3 , for example, where there were a lot of IPOs, but additionally, was there also a higher seasonality of corporate action to the corporate action number in Q2 and Q3 ? Would it be significantly more than INR 25 crore or would that be near about?
See, again, there are lots of corporate actions and shares placed, bonuses there. Now, there is no seasonality on that also. It depends all on each company. I don't think that can be predicted. If somebody is willing to do the past research and come up with some findings, that's a different matter. We don't see it that way. We see it again. Our intent is that platform should be robust and stable, so that people, whenever they want to come, they can come. It is like a road. The road has to ensure its value proposition. It has to ensure its security.
That cars, as and when, whether they come in the middle of the day, middle of the night, whether they come more in January or they come more in March, that is not the focus on how a company makes roads is going to focus. We have a similar kind of a focus on how we structure and plan ourselves.
Right, sir. Understood. Also, sir, if I were to think between the demand in your custody, just as a conceptual clarification, if there is a shift of folios, say, from a retail participant towards more institutional participant, then how would that impact our, say, annual issuer charges? If you could give some color.
The rules are there in the public domain. Number of folios is a combination of various factors on how issuer charges are getting charged. It is a fulfillment of those conditions. It's not only folios. It's a combination of various other factors also. That will have to be assessed. You can give a simplistic answer as to if there is a trend, a change in trend, etc. It all depends on all those conditions to ensure what would be the impact on the issuers' fees which we would receive.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nehal Vora for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
I would sincerely like to thank all the callers for their questions and also their keen interest.
Thank you, members of the management team. On behalf of HDFC Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your line.