Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the CG Power and Industrial Solutions Limited earnings conference call hosted by DAM Capital Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Thanks you. A warm good evening to everyone. On behalf of DAM Capital, I would like to welcome you to the Q1 FY23 Earnings Call of CG Power and Industrial Solutions Limited. We have the management today being represented by Mr. N. Srinivasan, Managing Director, Mr. Susheel Todi, CFO, Mr. Ramesh Kumar, President, Industrial Division, and Mr. Mukul Srivastava, President, Power Systems. I now hand over the call to Mr. N. Srinivasan for his opening remarks, post which he'll open up the floor for Q&A. Over to you, sir.
Yeah. Thank you, Bhoomika. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Let me first extend a warm welcome to you for the Q1 earnings call. I am N. Srinivasan, Managing Director of the company. I would like to again introduce my colleagues who are with me on this call. Ramesh Kumar, President, Industrial Systems. He takes care of motors and drives business. Mukul Srivastava, President, Power Systems. He takes care of the transformer and switchgear business. Ranjan Singh, who takes care of our railway business is not with us today. He's traveling. Sushil Todi, CFO of the company is with us. Varadarajan, who is the company secretary and also in charge of legal, he's also with us. I move on to company performance.
All the businesses of the company performed very well in this quarter. Sales and profit before tax before exceptional items from the standalone company for Q1 FY 2022/2023, the highest in the last 26 quarters, contributed by growth in all the business divisions. Aggregate sales for the quarter were higher at INR 1,559 crores, recording a growth of 63% year-on-year and 11% quarter-on-quarter. Q1 of the last year, of course, was impacted by a COVID lockdown. To that extent, the figures are not comparable. Profit before tax was at INR 165 crores, at 10.6% of sales in Q1 FY 2023, as against INR 73 crores, 7.6% of sales in Q1 of FY 2022, and INR 131 crores, 9.3% of sales in Q4 of FY 2022.
Margins were higher due to cost saving initiatives in procurement, increased productivity and reduction in finance costs on account of repayment of term loans. Return on capital employed on an annualized basis for Q1 of FY 2023 was at 39% as against 24% in Q1 of FY 2022. Free cash flow generated for the quarter was about INR 70 crores. Now I move on to segmental performance. Industrial systems. Aggregate sales for the quarter were higher at INR 1,106 crores, recording a growth of 61% year-on-year and higher by 15% quarter-on-quarter.
Profit before interest and tax was at INR 153 crore, 13.8% of sales in Q1 of FY 2023, as against INR 64 crore at 9.3% of sales in Q1 of FY 2022 and INR 135 crore, 14% of sales in Q4 of FY 2022. Margins were again higher in Q1 of FY 2023 compared to Q1 of FY 2022 due to improvement in productivity and cost saving initiatives. Unexecuted order book for this division as on 30/06/ 2022 stands at INR 1,959 crore, which grew by 16% compared to INR 1,691 crore as of 30th June 2021. Move on to Power Systems.
Aggregate sales for the quarter were higher at INR 453 crores, recording a growth of 17% year-on-year and 1% quarter-on-quarter. Profit before interest and tax was at INR 40 crores in Q1 of FY 2023 as against INR 28 crores in Q1 of FY 2022 and INR 27 crores in Q4 of FY 2022. Margins were higher sequentially, but lower year-on-year. Q1 of FY 2022 margins were better due to execution of certain export orders which had a high margin. Unexecuted order book at the end of June 30, 2022 was INR 1,713 crores, which grew by 43% compared to INR 1,197 crores as at 30 June 2021. Good demand was observed for transformers and switchgears.
Consolidated performance. Consolidated results include the performance of operating subsidiaries in the USA, namely QEI LLC, and in Sweden, Germany, and the Netherlands, which are drives and automation companies in Europe and other non-operating and holding subsidiaries. Q1 performance. Sales for the quarter, I mean, Q1 consolidated performance sales for the quarter were at INR 1,665 crores as against INR 1,050 crores in Q1 of FY 2022, and profit before tax, before excess items, was INR 172 crores as against INR 71 crores in Q1 of FY 2022. Some of the key events in Q1. During this quarter, Tube Investments of India exercised its option to subscribe to the INR 8.5 crores equity share by paying the warrant subscription money of INR 55 crores.
There are no further warrants outstanding as on 30th June 2022. Tube Investments of India now holds about 58.05% of the equity share capital of the company. The company prepaid the remaining term loan of INR 100 crore outstanding out of approvals, and as of now, the entire term loans have been paid in full. India Ratings have upgraded the company's long-term rating from AA- to AA+/Stable and affirmed the short-term rating to A1+. The Board of Directors of the company, while approving the business plan, have also approved a capital expenditure program of INR 210 crore to be implemented in the current financial year.
The capital expenditure will be spent in expansion, debottlenecking, modernizing the existing facilities. Apart from that, amount will also be spent on research and development, information technology and environment and EHS, environment, health and safety. Out of the 211 crores, motors and drives, we get about INR 80 crore. About INR 32 crore will be spent on railways. INR 88 crore will be spent on power, and remaining will be on other initiatives I just mentioned. Unaudited financial statements with detailed notes are available as part of the stock exchange filing and also on the company's website. Between myself and my colleagues, we'll be happy to answer questions. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Participants who wish to ask a question may kindly press star one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Ranojit Gill from ISL Securities. Kindly proceed.
Yeah. Hi. Good evening team and congratulations for strong performance. My first question is, basically broadly to understand how has been the demand outlook? Last quarter we had a bit of mixed comments on certain pockets of slowdown from the industrial segment on motors and pump segment of the market. So if you can share some inputs in terms of how has been the end market demand outlook so far, and are we seeing any signs of slowdown or the broader CapEx momentum remains fairly strong from end market perspective? That's the first question.
We have given you the unexecuted order book, and we continue to get order inflows of the order book. We don't see any immediate slowdown in any of the business segments.
Any qualitative comments on the end markets, say on the industrial segment, short cycle businesses, rail markets, that would be interesting?
Sanjay, you want to say something on the data side?
See, actually, there is a little bit of sentiment issue in the market that is because of the rise in commodity and down in the, I mean, again, crash of the commodity. Otherwise, there is no much problem as far as demand is concerned. I don't foresee any demand or recession going forward.
Okay. Secondly, what has been the kind of price hikes that we have taken on the industrial segment for motors portfolio? Do you think now that commodity prices started to ease out, there could be further transmission of these cost savings to the customers? How do you look at the pricing side?
I think, you know, we have to wait and see. Last year, as you know, there were four rounds of price revision. Substantially, once it is confirmed that, you know, prices are going to cool down and then, relatively they are stable, then, you know, there will be no difficulty in passing on some of the cost increases. Whatever we increase, only we are going to reduce, but provided, you know, it has to be. It cannot be momentary. It has to be stable, and it has to be realized. At that point of time, I mean, the entire industry will take a call.
Right. Sure. One last question, if I can add on. Broadly, if we see, from the margin side, you have done relatively well. You've highlighted on certain cost savings from productivity and cost reduction initiatives. Can you throw some more inputs in terms of specific initiatives and the kind of results that they started yielding, both in terms of working capital, yield management, and the operational initiatives that you're taking here?
I will not be able to give specific details, but I can tell you, one is I told, we told, we have been saying that, you know, we are implementing a lean program with assistance of a consultant, you know, that is giving us some benefits. We have also been working on procurement efficiency and various modes of procurement. That is also giving us some benefits. Third is actually as our financial position improves, we will be able to. We have been able to negotiate and then pay thereof possible in quicker span. Earlier, we were taking 60 days. We can pay sometimes in some cases 30 days, some cases are down cash. These things are now possible. Based on all these, we are seeing impact. That's all I can say.
Got it. Thanks much, sir. All the best. Thank you.
Thanks.
Thank you. We request participants to kindly restrict your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Rahul Gajare from Haitong Securities. Kindly proceed.
Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions and the first question is on the motor business.
Could you give us a sense about how much of the market is served with imported motors and which category of motors are normally imported? That is connected with that, you know, how is the competitive intensity in the motors business? That is the first question.
See, the import is, there is very little indirect import. See, direct import, if I consider maybe about INR 1,100 crore is the import, but there is a indirect import. What I mean is that the motors will come with the equipment set. Okay, so if I add all that, it will be about INR 3,000 crore will be import in India as on today.
Yeah. The competitive intensity?
The competitive intensity is there already because we have always been the leaders in motors. We are far ahead of our competition. That will always be there, and then we'll have to fight it out.
Sir, the second question is on the railway business. Could you give us an indication of, you know, the total revenue from railway in this industrial power in the current quarter? And how does it compare to Q4? You know, because Q4 you indicated that you had the highest quarterly revenue coming from railway. Also, connected with that, how is your market share moving in the overall railway business?
I think, you know, we just report only as one segment as industrial, both for motor and railways. We don't share the details relating to railway separately, number one. Secondly, sir, it will be very difficult to compute and then say the market share because railways have got several segments. We are manufacturing only traction motors, electronics, relays, point machines, et cetera. The railways actually draw several, then these several segments and there is no official version what is the market share for each of the products which the company supplies the railways. We can't give you this data. We don't have the details.
No, but you did indicate, you know, that last year was your highest ever revenue coming from rail, from railway. Some qualitative sense on how the first quarter has been regarding the fourth quarter last year.
Qualitatively asking, we have done well in railways. We have done well.
Thank you very much. I'll come back in the queue.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ravi Swaminathan from Spark Capital. Kindly proceed.
Hi, sir. Congratulations on the set of numbers, and, thanks a lot for taking my question. My first question is with respect to the motor market. Your rough sense on how the motor market would have grown this quarter. We have gained market share. What are the top four, five sectors which are driving the growth for both LT and HP motors, if you can give your thought process on this as well.
See, the exact figures I won't be able to share right now because it is not yet published. But we are anticipating a growth of almost about 78% in the quarter which is gone now. The infrastructure and, especially this oil and gas and ethanol, the pharma, these are the industries, which are doing very well. That is adding up to the growth. Even HT water and wastewater is doing very well.
Okay. The 7%-8%, is it sequential growth or is it like? Because YOY you have grown, industry as a whole have grown at 55%.
We cannot compare YOY because last year, if you see one and half month, it is almost like close condition, so it is not right comparison. If you compare with the quarter four, I think we are somewhere around 11%-15%. That's how better comparison.
Industry would have grown at 7%-8% and you would have grown at 11%-15%.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
That 7%-8% would be revenue growth and not volume growth?
Volume growth. Generally the industry is measured in volume growth, not in the value. Because value growth will be more, you know, in April, the prices have gone up, commodity prices have gone up and then realization also has transformed.
Sure. Sure. My second question, so basically, any status update with respect to the Vande Bharat orders. How, I mean, is it likely panning out? What kind of orders can come in over the next 12-24 months? Also the power systems export initiatives, how is it likely panning out, if you can give your thoughts on it.
Vande Bharat, you know, we, as you know, we have got one trial order, which will be executed over a two-year period. Current tender of whatever government has announced for 200 trains, it is for construction of the entire full train, not merely the engine part, the entire full train. Electrification is not. The earlier one was electric. What we got was only the electrics part.
This, over and above this, how much they will come?
Anyway, in this tender we are not eligible. Eligibility criteria is that only those who already have experience of having built and run such trains can participate. We are not qualifying for that. Any further tenders, in what form it will come, et cetera, at this point there is no clarity.
Okay, sir. With respect to the export initiative with power.
You know, initiatives are always there. You know, as you pointed out earlier. So we have to gear ourselves up to go full hog. Earlier, you know, our Kanjurmarg factory itself had exported transformers for INR 1,000 crores. So right now we are still with our orders there, we are making slow and steady progress. Still we have to just gear ourselves up before we go full hog in exports.
Got it, sir. Thanks a lot, sir. I'll come back in the queue.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Janak Vora from Janak Limited. Kindly proceed.
Sir, my question is, what is the status of CG House property at Worli?
No, CG House property is, you know, earlier this property was mortgaged to the bankers, and then we have cleared off the loan, and then we have taken possession of this property with us now. That is the current status.
That is nearly listed, but there was some dispute for the lease renewal with the authority. Whether that has been resolved?
No, that is lease renewal. We have given an application, so that is being processed. It is taking time because of its own procedural thing, it is takin time. Otherwise we are not seeing any disputes. It's a procedural delay that is taking place.
Sir, are we planning to sell CG Power house and CG house at Worli and its registered office to Chennai?
There is no such idea to my knowledge as of now.
Okay. Sir, second question is, since CG Power has posted now quite stellar returns, INR 130 crores consolidated profit, why is there no mention of any dividend? Because we are dividend starved since last seven years. Last CG Power has paid dividend in 2015. Now since CG Power has restored part of its past glory, is it not the time to offer something to the loyal shareholder who stood behind CG Power in its toughest times?
For the year ended March 31, 2022, still there are some debit balance in profit loss account. Unless and until that loss is wiped out, we will not be eligible to pay any dividend.
No, this year.
Under Companies Act, it is not possible to declare any dividend at this point of time. 2022, 2023, depending upon the profits and depending upon the position, the board will consider at the appropriate time.
Sir, I am one of the 249 shareholders who are holding nominal capital more than INR 2 lakh in CG Power. On behalf of them, I would like to request the management to consider at least some special dividend, some accrued dividend of the last seven years, to celebrate the restructuring and recapitalization and revival of CG Power.
We'll convey this request to our Board of Directors, because board only can take a decision.
That is why, sir, like something you should think of like those loyal shareholders who are holding more than, like, INR 2 lakh nominal capital, and for years. They deserve something like employees, they have got all their arrears, everything, creditors are paid.
Mr. Vora, I'm sorry to interrupt, sir.
Only shareholders are remaining now.
Mr. Vora, sorry to interrupt, sir. We request you to please join the question queue back again.
Okay, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Ankur Sharma from HDFC Life. Kindly proceed.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Good evening. Thanks for your time. Two questions. Actually, before that, just a small request. You know, we normally give out this press release, you know, over the last few quarters with your order book and, you know, other, segmental numbers. It would be great to have that as well. I think this quarter we did not see that. That was one. My question really was, you know, on your order backlog. When I see, you know, the number for Q1, about INR 3,600 crore, which is, you know, actually flattish on a Q-o-Q basis. Even in Q4, you know, your order backlog was around the same number.
Which also, if I get it right, implies that your order flows or your orders booked during the quarter may not have grown, you know, maybe in the high single digits at best. Is that the right number? Am I missing something here or is that correct, that your orders booked during the quarter would have been maybe mid to high single digits%?
First is, you know, in the press release that we have released and which we have filed with the stock exchange, we have given details of unexecuted order book as on 30th of June, 2022 for each of the businesses.
Okay. Got it.
I think that is, yeah. Second to your question, I think order flow is healthy because it is unexecuted order book. This actually whatever we execute and then that gets eliminated, only the balance that can be there. Which right now you know the, from the order book, you know, you can see for the next two, three quarters, at least two, Q2 and Q3, we are fully covered in general. Some may be executed in Q4 also. Order book, order inflow has been quite healthy.
Okay. Any number you can share, sir, if you have it handy? What is the-
That is, in the press release you can see. We've been very good to the stock exchange.
Okay.
It is there. Segment wise we have given the number.
Fair. Okay. Sir, second, you know, just coming back to the earlier question, in terms of exports out of your power systems business, how much would that have been during this quarter? You know, how do you see this scaling up? Because I, if I remember right, you know, before maybe a couple of years back, exports used to be a fairly sizable number on the power side. How are you looking at it going forward?
Yeah, I don't have the current quarter export number. Whatever orders are profitable that we are executing, you know, it's not a question. We are also applying for several overseas tenders. Then there is also a lot of demand in the indigenous side, both for the power transformer as well as the distribution transformer. Orders have to be basically profitable, and then the customer has to be worthy of being serviced because we don't want our money to get stuck. That is how we are approaching the markets.
Okay. Just last one on this would be would you just kind of split out your revenues between, you know, on the power system side between, you know, the power transmission distribution utilities versus industrial consumers?
We don't share the data, sir.
Okay. Great. No problem. Great. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mayank Chaturvedi from Equirus. Kindly proceed.
Hi, good evening, everyone, and congratulations on the strong numbers. Sir, I have a couple of questions on the power systems segment. The first one would be in FY 2022, we commissioned a 400 KV grid substation on a turnkey basis under the EPC division. Is this one of the legacy projects that is putting pressure on the power systems margins? And what would be the EPC order book that is left to be executed currently? From my part EPC?
EPC, engineering, procurement, construction. No, I think it is a very insignificant part of our business. We don't have big orders to execute. There is nothing for us to report on that side. Very negligible and insignificant orders only we have.
Okay, thanks. Thanks. Sir, on the CapEx side, you guided for INR 90 crore CapEx for the power systems segment. Would this largely be towards the relocation of the Kanjurmarg facility?
No.
Okay.
Various existing facilities, upgradation of facilities, modernization. There are some automation, so balancing facilities of only the facilities currently at Bhopal and as well as at Malanpur. Only these are the areas where we are investing.
Are we likely to relocate that Kandurmarg facility or what is your thesis on that?
I will not be able to answer because, you know, the earlier facility which they wanted to relocate, in that process many of the capacities got cannibalized. Exactly it'll be difficult for us to, at this point, visualize what is, how it has to be reconstructed, et cetera. Because of that, we will not be able to commit. I will not be able to commit on that just now.
Sure, sir. No problem. That will be all from us. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajiv Gupta from RBC Financial Services. Kindly proceed.
Yeah, I have two questions. One was if you could give some flavor on the consumer product business. You know, two quarters back, if I remember right, there was a comment from the management that we will get back to the regularly demerged consumer product very fast. That is one question. The second question was on stock options. What has been the company's policy on stock options? And what has been the strike price, if at all? At what general level are people entitled to stock options? And what's the policy there? Thank you.
The employees at the senior level, the key managerial personnel, vice presidents and presidents, are eligible for stock option under the scheme. Last time the senior management team were given stock option, which will vest over a period of four years. The strike price was around INR 157, sir. That is the question number two. Question number one, I will ask Mr. Ganesh to answer.
Yeah. See, actually, we had four different consumer products when we demerged, and now we have already launched two products. Once we establish ourself, maybe then we will think it over about the balance, when we will be able to launch the other products. Is that your question answered?
Well, very partly. If you could give some flavor in terms of how do you look at the market in terms of, I know you'll not give me specific numbers or specific projections, but in terms of how important it will be in the next three years in the overall CG Power portfolio today in terms of percentage of turnover, et cetera. You know, just a little bit more flavor if you could.
We don't give any guidance, so it would not be possible to.
I know. I'm not asking for numbers, but in terms of how significant or is it a very high priority stuff? I'm not asking you for a specific number.
Every businesses we are operating are a priority, sir. Every business is a priority. Consumer business is definitely a priority, but we are just totally new. Therefore, we have to take measured steps. It will take some time for us to grow this business.
Okay. Are you expecting any problems with the brand names, any confusion in the market with between CG and your erstwhile demerged companies? How are you facing that?
We have no problems. We are not experiencing any problems.
All right. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manish Dhariwal from Fiducia Capital Advisors. Kindly proceed.
Very good afternoon. Am I audible?
Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
My heartiest compliments to the management team for transforming, you know, a very sad state of affairs. I'm confident that, you know, CG Power will be going at a pace and many business schools the way this compares to transform this business. My sincere compliments to the team. With that, I would basically pick a thread from the previous question about the consumer side of the business. As a shareholder I would request a little bit more understanding about how the customer is receiving the CG brand for the consumer products because there is a complete new distribution network.
There's a completely setup that has to be created because the erstwhile has gone to the team of company. You mentioned that out of the four product lines, two have been introduced in the market. We understand that fans is one of them. Some color is very much required, and I hope you will oblige us. The second question is on the broader EV deck or the EV initiatives that the whole group at the TI end, you know, you are an important component of TI, I can just very proudly say now, is being taken. You know, what is it that CG Power is doing on the EV side?
You mentioned about some motors, et cetera, that you're working on the [inaudible].
Yeah, yeah. Actually, the CG brand is well-known brand in the market. We are introduced as a CG brand only, and we already have motors and we have commercial motors which goes to the consumers. The entering into the CG brand is not an issue for us. That is the reason we have reentered all these products, and then we are going with that brand only. We don't have any other problem as far as consumer products is concerned.
Customer response has been good.
Yeah, yeah.
All the products we introduced, customer response and dealer response have been quite clear.
Correct.
As regards the question on EV, if I understood your question correctly, you know, our intent is, you know, CG is a predominantly, you know, we know the manufacture of motors quite well. We would like to position ourselves to manufacture motors for the electric vehicles for which, you know, we are currently working in a development stage. Until such time, you know, this development is completed and product is approved and product is shown to some OEMs, et cetera, we will not be able to share any information. Certainly we are interested in this area, therefore we are working on this particular business.
Thank you so much, sir. In fact, when you mentioned about the CapEx side, the INR 2,211 crore and split up into the various segments, I was actually hoping to hear something basically being focused towards the EV, which I did not hear. That's why, you know, I was trying to kind of get clarity on the focus towards EV. Your words about the consumer side of the business is actually very reassuring because the company itself is continuing to be a very strong brand anyway. You know, kind of directly competing with them and getting the dealer interest and all is, like, very reassuring. That's the good side.
On EVs are like no CapEx, no nothing, so maybe that's why I was wondering the consumer side.
The existing facilities are adequate to manufacture, design and develop, for prototypes, for EV, motors also. While I have not specified, whatever additional incremental facilities that will take care of the requirements for these purposes also.
Thank you so much, sir. Thank you so much. All the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harshit Kapadia from Elara Capital. Kindly proceed.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity, and congratulations for very good numbers in the challenging time. Just one question, sir. I just looked at your data on CapEx. You had mentioned in a breakdown in terms of which segment you are doing CapEx. Can you please repeat?
INR 80 crore for motors and drives, INR 32 crore for railways, about INR 85 crore for power. Rest of it all, I mean, IT, R&D, et cetera.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shanti Patel from Shanti Patel Investment Advisors. Kindly proceed.
Good afternoon, sir. I wanted to know how much capacity utilization we have achieved to date. Secondly, what will be the approximate return on capital employed in next one year?
Hello. The first question, if you ask me how much of CapEx we have spent so far is
No, not CapEx. Capacity utilization. How much capacity we are utilizing at our plant today?
It is running between 70%-80%, sir, all across our different plants.
The second one was whether we will be able to maintain how much savings will be there in respect of loan that we have repaid? Because as I understand now, there is no loan and all terms on saving repaid. What will be the saving on that account?
We are almost saving around INR 45 crore-INR 50 crore on account of repayment of this term loan for the full year.
Full year, 45, INR 45 crores, right? If I'm not wrong. Okay. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul Gajare from Haitong Securities India. Kindly proceed.
Thanks for the opportunity again. Sir, I understand, you know, that CG Power has been well received in the South market, you know, as far as the premium products are concerned. I wanted you to, you know, discuss your experience in the South and other markets, you know, with respect to the premium products. That's the first question.
Sorry, can you repeat your?
South market. South market. Experience in South market.
Yeah, South market experience is good because consumer generally, South market contributes almost 40% for consumer, and we are a very strong brand in South also. Our experience so far has been good, and I think we are also doing in the same lines of the market, demand of South in our overall percentage.
Okay. After South, which are the other region you've done well?
East and North.
How much would that contribute to approximately?
Percentage wise, the South will be about 40%-45%. Rest is between North and the East. West, we are yet to start in a big way. West, we are in a post starter actually.
Okay. That's the first question. Sir, your parent company has set up a separate EV mobility business, you know, to re-enter three-wheeler, two-wheeler and tractor. In that case, how does CG Power and TI Electric, you know, plan to work together, you know, in the larger scheme of EV business over the next couple of years? Some thoughts on this business, please.
There is no agreement between TI and CG. TI has got its own plans on mobility. For example, for any of their businesses, maybe for example, let us say tractors or three-wheelers, et cetera, if they invite some tenders for a supply of motors, we will also participate. If it is any specific product development, we can develop. Everything will be an arm's length. It has to make commercial sense for TI, it has to make commercial sense for CG. As of now, there is no fixed understanding between both the companies. Business inquiries do come. They, when they send the business inquiries to various people, we also get, and we respond. We compete with as any other company.
Okay, sir. Thank you very much for the answers. This is very helpful.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pradeep Raghunathan from Aarohi. Kindly proceed.
Hi. I just wanted to ask, like, so you mentioned the breakup of CapEx that, you know, you had in mind. But could you also tell us, you know, what kind of capacity will we have? Right now we are running at around 70%-80% capacity. What is the incremental capacity that would be generated by this additional CapEx?
Actually, no. What will happen is, amount will be spent on what is called as debottlenecking. There will be sectional imbalances or there will be some modernization. We on account of that maybe about additionally 15%-20% capacity will get released.
Simple. Secondly, on the growth initiatives, you mentioned on consumer and EV both, you know, you're mentioning when there is a meaningful update. Could you tell us, you know, how are you looking at this in terms of, you know, when this would be something which you could share, let's say one, two, three quarters down the line?
Regarding?
The consumer business as well as the EV business.
No. I think, you know, they're all at the development stage. Unless and until some plans are certified and then finalized, we will not be able to share any data.
No, I appreciate that. My question was actually, is there some sort of a milestone where, you know, you would be able to then be able to share data around, you know, what's happening?
No. As of now, unless and until, you know, as I said, we are just working on that. On the EV side, we are working on the development of motors and other products actually. As and when it comes to certain shape fully, I'll be able to. It can take three months, it can take six months, it can take nine months. Similarly, on the consumer side, we have launched whatever products we have launched then that that is actually will continue. Newer products, they are on the drawing board. As of now, as and when the plans are finalized we'll be able to share.
Got it. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Niket Shah from Motilal Oswal. Kindly proceed.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Congratulations with the numbers. I have two, three questions. First on the margin side, you've done a decent job this quarter, and I'm assuming this quarter would have been the peak quarter on raw material costs for you. Given the fact that we've seen decline in raw material prices, should one now assume that given most of your contracts are fixed price contracts, we should start seeing improvement in margins going forward?
Quarter? Can you repeat?
Given most of your contracts are fixed price contracts, and this quarter you would have seen the worst raw material costs, and we've seen raw material costs coming down across the board. Should one assume margin expansion going forward?
I think this was discussed earlier in one of the questions. If the prices continue to fall and then if there is a substantial drop, both customers and consumers will expect us to reduce the price and pass on the benefit. Because, you know, the prices that we are now at which we are selling, actually last financial year we increased the price four times because of the increase in prices. Margin expansion cannot be taken for granted that way.
Got it. If you can also highlight what are the white spaces within the motor category that you would be targeting now, if you can qualitatively give some comments on that. There will be certain category where you would have very high market share, certain category in motors where you would, you wouldn't be present, like, for example, EV motors which you highlighted earlier. Would there be more categories like EV motors where you would be targeting?
If you want to answer that. I think, you know, in LT motors mainly we hold a large share. But every product, whether it is LT motors or FHP motors or LIM, large industrial motors, every product, you know, as and when we get good inquiries and we want to increase our market share, we are working on it. As far as EV is concerned, as I said, you know, it is still at a very development stage. Therefore, our priority is to all the segments of the motors which we are manufacturing. Everything actually is a growth area for us.
Sure. One last question. Running an older plant, which you currently had in CG versus you, if you had to go for a greenfield plant today, would the margin be far more different than what it is today in the existing older plant?
I think, you know, it's, so it has got different implications. When you put a new plant, you know, there will be lot of initial expansion costs, so there will be high depreciation. There will be high level of investment due to automation, et cetera. There will be plus and minuses. We have to see because, you know, 70% is material cost. In our business, 70%-71% is material cost. The play is actually if you remove depreciation, only maybe about 20% between which how much you can play. Old depreciated plants have their own advantage. Newly set up plants will have different advantage. Both will co-exist and both will have different markets to serve.
Got it. If I may squeeze in one final question on Vande Bharat opportunity, would it be possible for you to quantify the size of opportunity that you can address? For example, if one train would cost INR 100, what is the size of opportunity for you within that INR 100? Thank you.
No, no, we can clearly say. As I said earlier, one is the entire train. The current tender for 200 trains, actually it is all for the entire train. So that I think for which we are not eligible. Earlier they just only the electrics, that part alone was given a tender on which we have got awarded for one development order at about INR 37 crore-INR 38 crore. So that is entirely, you know, we will supply and procure and since it's a development order, which will be executed over a period of two years.
Sure. I'll come back to you. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shreyas J. from Quest Investments. Kindly proceed.
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I'm slightly new to the company, so pardon me for my ignorance if any. So from my understanding, we are not present in the low voltage switchgear segment, but that segment seems to be quite big, you know, from what I understand, it's a INR 25,000 crore market. So just wanted to understand why are we not present there? Okay. We've not been present in the past, but do you see any entry in the future?
Mukul can answer that.
At CG we used to have a low voltage switchgear business till the year 2000, that which we sold off. Then over a period of time, our energy got focused on developing the high voltage switchgears, right from 3.3 kV up to 400 kV. Now low voltage segment, per unit, cost of the whole item is very low, and it has its own intricacies in terms of handling the business, and more so on market, expansion, sales network rather than the technology. Over the years, over the last 20 years, we are focused more on technology-oriented, high end of the product. As of now we do not have any plans to be entering into the low voltage segment.
Okay. Anything on the HVDC transformer? Because I think there also we are not present, but could be other categories with the.
Yes, HVDC is one area. But you know, in India still, the HVDC contributes to around less than 15% of the total market. Since we are coming from a low base, we have ample of opportunity to grow in the areas where we are already present for so many years. That is where we are trying to strengthen and consolidate our position. Maybe in coming future, we might think about HVDC, but as of now our hands are full with the existing portfolio of products we have.
Okay. Thank you. The other question is now, since most of our subsidiaries we are done with selling them. Just wanted to understand, did we get the technology from those companies or that also goes away and we have to do anything we have to start from scratch?
See, on the overseas company, most of which were on the transformer and switchgear side, we already have absorbed the technology, whatever they could offer. We have been upgrading the technology, especially in the segments of UHV GIS, which now we are up to 230 kV and we are working on 420 kV. As far as the other areas which concern you, we are already self-sufficient in India. Our Indian plants are doing well. On the transformer side, we have been there in the business for so long, so actually, we are self-sufficient on entire business.
All right. Sir, this last question. Now that we've completed the turnaround and all of that is over, so in terms of management guidance, not specifically numbers, but in terms of categories, any other category that you see you could start looking into, which offers a great runway for the company in terms of growth for the next two to five years?
It is too early to think of the existing businesses can be still. There are a lot of work to be done and they can be , still grown. Therefore, it is too early to think of anything else. We have not been thinking in those directions.
Okay. All right. Sir, just last bit on the green and renewable energy from the hybrid angle. Do you think our company has any strengths to cater to those kind of segments?
Anything, you know, in those areas, if it is anything to do with power systems or motors, certainly we are well positioned to serve those industries.
Okay. All right. Bye. Thank you so much, sir. Bye-bye.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajiv Gupta from RBC Financial Services. Kindly proceed.
Yeah, thank you for taking my question again. Just wanted a favor of what kind of CapEx on the consumer product business do you envisage in the next two financial years in terms of ramping up? Also, what are the products we have launched that must be in the public domain, so I'm assuming there's no confidentiality there. What are the products which are about to be launched on the consumer product business?
Go and tell the products.
Yeah. See, we have launched fresh water pumps for both the domestic agriculture and little bit in industry. We have launched a complete range of fans, ceiling fans, table, pedestal, and exhaust, and everything, the complete range of fans. As of now, these are the two products and , you know, we are right now, we started off with the contract manufacturing. Maybe going forward we will see how, what is the CapEx we are going to invest on that. Right now, we'd not be able to tell you on that.
All right. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhoomika Nair for closing comments.
Yeah, I would just like to thank the entire management for answering all the queries and particularly all the participants as well. Thank you very much, sir, for giving us the opportunity and wishing you all the very best.
Thank you, Bhoomika. Thank you both of you.
Thank you.
Thanks for your support. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.