Cohance Lifesciences Limited (NSE:COHANCE)
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May 11, 2026, 3:29 PM IST
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Q4 22/23

May 26, 2023

Operator

Please note, this conference is being recorded. We now have the conference call to Mr. Rishab Barar from CDR India. Thank you. Over to you.

Rishab Barar
CDR India, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Good day, everyone, and thank you for joining us on this call to discuss Q4 and FY 2023 earnings for Suven Pharmaceuticals. We have with us Mr. Venkat Jasti, the Managing Director; Mr. Venkatraman Sunder, Vice President, Corporate Affairs; and Mr. Subba Rao Parupalli, CFO of the company.

Before we begin, I would like to mention that some statements made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. Documents relating to the company's performance have been emailed to you earlier. I would now like to request Mr. Jasti to share his perspectives on the performance and outlook. Over to you, sir.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Thank you, Rishab, and thank you everyone for tuning in to this conference call on the results for year ending March 31st. As I was telling last year that the year 2022, 2023 will be flat to a little bit lower side on the revenue side, and later we have updated that it may compare a little bit. Finally, it has come out with a very muted growth on the overall perspective. It is in line with what we have expected and informed you. You know, the CDMO business in the pharma reduced by about roughly about 10% due to some of the molecules which are being used for the COVID were not repeated.

Whereas the specialty chemicals has gone up by 15% to compensate for the things that has lowered the CDMO pharma. Overall, other than the one-off of 2020, last year's very surprising stake, otherwise, the results are in line, and we have a positive growth.

If you see quarter-on-quarter from the last quarter to this quarter is a good jump in revenue and the profitability. On a year-on-year basis, if you take out the one-off item, then it will be same as last year, more or less. This year is very early for us to give us any guidance, but we also see a little bit softness in the spectrum side with several because of the climatic conditions.

Otherwise, we expect to be same in line, and we'll have much more visibility as we go through. I think it's better for me to answer your questions rather than giving, because you have the results due, and it's better I answer the questions rather than giving you upfront any other information which may not be relevant. I now ask the moderator to go for the question answer session.

Operator

Thank you very much. We now go to the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The first question is from the line of Rishabh Shah from Oaktree Capital Management. Please go ahead.

Rishabh Shah
Managing Director and Head of Americas Insurance Solutions, Oaktree Capital Management

Your voice is coming very muffled. Is it possible to speak to the handset? Yeah. I'm audible now? Much better, sir. Yeah. My first question. I have couple of questions. My first question is, the formulation business, is it possible to focus less on that business and focus more in the business where our revenue there is 60%, the CDMO? Since the formulation business has been seen since 2 financial years, it's been flattish.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Yeah. Formulation business is all not a big item for us, but it's in a leverage exercise, as we were told earlier, and we are expecting something to go, but it also depends on the approvals that are in place now, to be in place. We have filed around 25, 27 ANDAs. So far we have only 12 approved, and not all of them are, as you know, ours is a very specific molecules, not a blockbuster, volume-based molecules. We expect more 7 or 8 approvals this during this year, and that will add the revenue eventually. In general, it is a flattish growth, not much to talk about on the formulations.

Rishabh Shah
Managing Director and Head of Americas Insurance Solutions, Oaktree Capital Management

My second question is, if you could let's see if you can give us the repeat % of the business, like the % of clients, which they come back with the repeat orders. If that number is on a larger side, what different does Suven do in that business?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

What is it again? I could make out the question.

Rishabh Shah
Managing Director and Head of Americas Insurance Solutions, Oaktree Capital Management

Sir, if you could give me the repeat percentage of orders of the business, what % of clients do come back with the repeat orders of the business, and if it's on the larger side?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

This is not a generic business, as you know. I mean, once our molecule is supplied, and if there is a success in the clinical trials, you will automatically get the repeat order. Similarly, on the commercial scale, you will have a repeat order once a year or whatever it is, on a continuous basis, depending on how the product is growing.

If it's growing, you'll get a little bit more orders, but it's less, but you still get the repeat order, but it will be a little bit less. This is the way it works, unlike a generic where you would go and sell it. Here it is automatically because we are one of the suppliers for this particular molecule, so it will be coming that way. Repeat orders are based on the success of the molecule in the clinical trials at the early stage. If it's the commercial, it's the success of the molecule in the market. This is the way you get the repeat business.

Rishabh Shah
Managing Director and Head of Americas Insurance Solutions, Oaktree Capital Management

Okay. My last question is, in the cases composed, you said that the duration of a project can be 3 to 4 months or even it can take 5 to 6 months. It is very lumpy in nature. How do you take the guidance further, and how do you protect the revenue going ahead?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

That's why we don't give you guidance on the revenue projections. They come as and when. This you cannot go on a quarter-on-quarter basis. You have to go more or less on a year-on-year basis only. Again, it is based on the success of the molecules, both the clinical trials and when it's launched on the success in the market.

It's not a straightforward, but at the same time, if you see, we have, if you see last four years, we have 21 C CAGR growth is there. There are a few some similar, I mean, what do you call, regularity with which we are getting it, and it cannot be on a quarter-to-quarter basis.

Rishabh Shah
Managing Director and Head of Americas Insurance Solutions, Oaktree Capital Management

Do you project the same going ahead in the next three to four years?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

We hope to, and it may be better, but we cannot tell because, as I said, we have only the visibility of 5 to 6 months. More than that, we don't have. We, based on the past record, if you go by a decade, and especially last 4, 5 years, it's going good.

With the increase in the infrastructure and hopefully the new technologies which we are going to based on the request of the customers and the, especially on the, I mean, success of the molecules, that will certainly give. Suddenly it can go, in 1 year, it can go also much higher than what the average was, but that you cannot tell at this time.

Rishabh Shah
Managing Director and Head of Americas Insurance Solutions, Oaktree Capital Management

Okay, thank you so much. I'll join back in the queue.

Operator

Thank you. For all the participants, please restrict to two questions per participant. If time permits, please come back in the question queue for a follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Rashmi Shetty from Dholat Capital. Please go ahead.

Rashmi Shetty
Director of Research, Dolat Capital

Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. 1 question related to this quarter. You know, we are seeing that the trend in this quarter is a higher share of CDMO pharma and, you know, lower share of CDMO chemical, solid chemistry business.

Besides this, you know, our gross margin is on a higher way and on a quarter-over-quarter, which is contracted. Besides our gross margins are down, our EBITDA margin is high, you know, because there is a lower cost in terms of manufacturing and other expenses. You know, what is happening on the cost side, and why are the gross margins contracted? If you could give us the specific reason for it.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

I think you know very well the type of business we are in. It is not a same molecule, so you can compare with quarter to quarter. It is the mix of the product mix is the one that gives you the margins, right? One quarter, it may be high-value product may be there, where then you get a high gross margin. Sometimes, you know, some of these more early-stage projects are there, where the gross margins will be less. This is the way it works. It cannot be catered to one or other. It is all the mainly the product mix that determines the gross margins and the EBITDA and the net profit.

Rashmi Shetty
Director of Research, Dolat Capital

Sir, on the cost side, like, you know, are you taking some cost control initiatives? I'm just seeing that on quarter-on-quarter, you know, our expenses have actually come down, which has actually led to improvement in EBITDA margins. If you can share some color on it.

Subba Rao Parupalli
CFO, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

No, there is no major changes that has happened. The only thing is that in quarter-on-quarter, sometimes what happens is like, you know, there are manufacturing expenses and then other costs. There is a slight reduction, if you really see, you know, compared to previous year, about INR 18 crores. This previous year, about INR 18 crores, and this year, about INR 13.4 crores.

The changes based on the, you know, as just as explaining actually, with the variable costs related to the product changes actually. There is a cost of changes in effluent treatment, overheads. All those things are variable in relation to the production, and that's the reason it has happened actually. There is no major cost reduction as such. Overall, you know, it's the, it's the same kind of... In fact, there is no cost increase as such, actually. That efficiency has been maintained.

Rashmi Shetty
Director of Research, Dolat Capital

Okay, sir. My second question is on your acquisition and merger process. You know, where are we currently in this process of, you know, related to tender and related to the acquisition process and the merger process?

Subba Rao Parupalli
CFO, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

No, we are still waiting. We are still waiting for the regulatory approval for the acquirer to get all the approvals. CCI, DOP, and all, actually, we are still waiting for that. Once that is completed, probably, you know, there's the announcement to the public at some point of time, the transaction will be completed. At this point of time, we have not, you know, got the approval as such. We are waiting for the approval.

Rashmi Shetty
Director of Research, Dolat Capital

Once the regulatory approval comes in, that time we advance with first, while the promoter stake, and post that only the tender of offer would start, right? Is my understanding correct?

Subba Rao Parupalli
CFO, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

That is correct. You know, only after the acquisition of the promoter stake, then it requires for open offer, and from that we go forward. Correct.

Rashmi Shetty
Director of Research, Dolat Capital

Understood, sir. Thank you. That's it from my side.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Thank you.

Operator

For the phone line, may I request you to unmute your line from your side, please?

Speaker 15

Hello.

Operator

Go ahead.

Speaker 15

Yeah. Hi. Thank you for this opportunity. On the CDM of pharma side, just wanted to understand the spike what we have seen in this quarter. I mean, is this more related to some new product getting commercialized or just some movement happening between the clinical trials?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

It's a combination, both. I mean, you cannot pinpoint to one thing that has come. There is nothing new that has come. It is only the mix, and sometimes, you know, what happens, you know, some of the material is almost ready but not shipped in the last two days, so it goes to the next quarter. Those things also can happen. Not much change. It's only the values are based on some of the factors, product mix. As you're asking, what is the quarter is, there is no new launches or anything that has taken place.

Speaker 15

Understood, sir. sir, on this, on.

Operator

Sorry, Chinkaraj, sir, you're not audible.

Speaker 15

Yeah. Am I audible now?

Operator

Yes.

Speaker 15

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sir, on the new molecule improvement, I mean, how is the connection with our, you know, with our key customers? Are we seeing some renewed interest there? If you could also highlight, you know, the number of molecules which are under phase two now and phase three as well. Thanks.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Yeah, I mean, what I'm saying is the traction of getting the new RFQs and all that stuff is little bit, still little bit slower. We thought it will happen but post-COVID, and it's coming. Interest is there, a new interest is, but the pace is little bit slower. No molecules, each and, none of the molecules in various phases has not moved from one stage to other to have a substantial impact on the results as of now.

Speaker 15

Sure, sir. Just a final one on the Vizag plant. Any updates from the customer audit part, as you are expecting some to happen in this quarter?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

The update is that, yes, the customers are coming and auditing. It will take, then the evaluation, orders will be given eventually. It is a long-run process, because it will take a year and a half before you see full-fledged approvals.

Speaker 15

Sure, sir. thank you, and wish you all the best.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Cyndrella Carvalho from JM Financial. Please go ahead.

Cyndrella Carvalho
Vice President Healthcare/Pharma Lead, JM Financial

Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on delivering the guidance and maintaining the EBITDA margins. I also want to understand if there are any expected new approvals from pharma side in the coming 2 years, FY 2024, 2025. Any indication on that?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

No, even the customer will not be knowing until the clinical trial data comes out and then they move to the next stage. So far, we don't have any indication. As of now, any of the molecules will be moving into the commercial or any phase 2 coming into the phase 3. No indication as of now. It can happen anytime, as is right now, they don't have an indication. Unless they have an indication, they can't tell us. We will not be able to give you any guidance on that at this time.

Cyndrella Carvalho
Vice President Healthcare/Pharma Lead, JM Financial

On the second side, apart from the earlier three products, anything moving there?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

As last itself, I told you it will be in the 2024 time frame. It will be moving to other commercial product, not until that time.

Cyndrella Carvalho
Vice President Healthcare/Pharma Lead, JM Financial

Sir, if we look at the global environment, you highlighted that it is slightly slower. We hear a lot around the China Plus One movement. Is there any update on the overall R&D outlook of the partners, and how do we expect this to pan out? Any thoughts from an industry perspective and our business perspective will be helpful.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Yeah, industry perspective, the China Plus One, yes, it may be possible in the non-regulated regime, like it may be generics or, under some intermediates and something else. On the innovator side, it takes time for any changes or any new things to come and have it tangible results.

As you know, when we came back from the DCAT, the feedback from there is, yes, we are thinking of moving away from China and all that stuff. You know, that is the thinking. They have to, implement it. If it's a regular product buying in a, what do you call, the regular, intermediate or a chemical, then it's much easier for them. When you are going for an innovative product and aligning, it takes time.

That is a positive sign, and time will tell when those things will come. I think that is a good omen. In the long run, yes, it will be good, right now, what I was telling you is from the mindset of the COVID-related activity moving into the regular activity, we thought by this time we see a little bit more action on the new projects, but that is being a little bit slow, but it will come.

As you know, they were saying about moving towards India. Similarly, the DCAT time also in, they were trying to come. I think it will come, for a general purpose, for the industry sake, yes, it will come. It will take back, especially this phase where we are in, it will have a long drawn effect. When once it starts, yes, it will have a good. In years to come, it will be very good.

Cyndrella Carvalho
Vice President Healthcare/Pharma Lead, JM Financial

If, did we share the number that if we remove the forward portion, from the base, what will be our, growth for FY 2023? Did we share that?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

No.

Cyndrella Carvalho
Vice President Healthcare/Pharma Lead, JM Financial

Can we share that number, sir, if it is available?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

No, no, it is not like that. We said earlier it was about INR 120 crores, what was there in FY 2022. Whether, you know, it will be removed, because it may not be.

Venkatraman Sunder
Vice President, Corporate Affairs, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

I already told you 10% is less, because of that already in the CDMO revenue of the pharma. That's the only thing I can tell you.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Yeah. Otherwise, we might be able to specifically provide the customer in the conference call, and then it's very difficult for us to, you know, maintain that because of the confidentiality what we have with our customers.

Cyndrella Carvalho
Vice President Healthcare/Pharma Lead, JM Financial

Sure. Sure. Helpful, sir. Just one question on the raw material and logistics side, how do we see the scenario now as we hear a lot of peers saying that there is improvement in both the sides? Has it happened for us, and do you see the trends improving going ahead? Given that we've delivered on annual level almost a 42% plus EBITDA margins, do you see this improving further with the help of softening of logistical and raw material costs?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Yeah, I mean, naturally, what happens is the shortages is going to be a problem, not the cost itself. Cost is more or less being compensated because the nature of the business we are in, except one or two places, we may not be able to get the compensation.

When it goes down, naturally, the price will touch or also will be when the business comes, it will go down. We'll hope to maintain the same margins, but based on that, I don't think we'll have any improvement in the margins. The only reason is the not able to have the things and get the raw material somewhere else and high prices, and suddenly sometimes it may affect it. In general, the trend is good now, the availability is good, and the price is also stable. Prices of the raw materials are also stable.

Venkatraman Sunder
Vice President, Corporate Affairs, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Thank you. I request to join the queue again for a follow-up question. As per all the participants, please restrict to two questions per participant. The next question is from the line of Chirag Dagli from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Chirag Dagli
Fund Manager, DSP Mutual Fund

Yes, sir, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, our commercial supplies in pharma, excluding the COVID supplies, has there been a dramatic change in that number for the full year of FY 2023, sir?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

There is no dramatic change. As I said, if it's a dramatic change, there should have been an improvement in the, what do you call, the sales revenue of the CDMO Pharma. As I said, year-on-year, it is 10% less than last year's. It was improvement, and whatever the decrease is, mainly because of some of the molecules which they use for the COVID are not repeated during this year. That's why that was there.

Chirag Dagli
Fund Manager, DSP Mutual Fund

10% is lower because of the COVID not coming through, is what you're saying?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Yes. Yes.

Chirag Dagli
Fund Manager, DSP Mutual Fund

Understood, sir. Okay. Secondly, sir, we're seeing some players talk about, you know, funding winter and, you know, this impacting the funnel for CDMO business for a lot of emerging therapy companies. Are you seeing similar trends? If you can just talk a little bit about, you know, the overall environment as far as your, you know, match business, as you traditionally call, what's the trends that you're seeing over there?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Actually, as you know, we are dealing with only the medium-size and big pharma only. That part of the problem will not be there. We are not working with any biotechs for that matter, so I'm not aware of that, and I didn't see that trend as far as big pharma is concerned.

The only thing is the changing from the COVID-related activities to the regular activities. We thought it will be a fast track, but it's coming slowly. I think we see with the way people are talking and all that stuff, in a couple of quarters from now, it should go back to the normalcy and maybe fast track also for the regular items.

Chirag Dagli
Fund Manager, DSP Mutual Fund

Okay, sir, thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Anshul Jain from Neo Markets. Please go ahead.

Anshul Jain
Analyst, Neo Markets

Hello, sir. Am I audible?

Operator

Yes, you are.

Anshul Jain
Analyst, Neo Markets

Yeah. I'll just need some guidance on the open offer which has been put. When you are expecting the process to get completed?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

That is not in our hands. It is based on the regulatory approval that has to take place. When the regulatory approval takes place, I think, they will announce the date. I think it will be within a fortnight of, we'll launch the open offer after the regulatory approval comes in. I think, we are still waiting for that. That will be getting to you through the notifications as and when it happens. Right now, we don't have an idea. Which, our process is it should be happening before August 26th. That's a long stop date.

Anshul Jain
Analyst, Neo Markets

Okay. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Varun Bank from Financial Investments. Please go ahead.

Varun Bank
Analyst, Financial Investments

Thank you for the congrats, congratulations for steady progress during the year. Sir, increasingly, what we are seeing is molecules are becoming smaller and high potent, so 500 mg becoming 50 mg and 50 mg becoming 5 mg. Quantum of supply could be structurally declining. How is it evolving and how could it impact our business, especially the commercial terms that we have with innovators?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Commercial terms is based on the molecule to molecule, not based on the milligrams to milligrams. It is the value that is brings the molecule. If you see, good old days, you have 1,000 metrics and 1,000 metrics. In this innovative last 10 years, if you see, very rarely you see any volume-based molecule. Everything is on a tons for a whole year, actually 50 tons for a whole year, something like that, other than 1 or 2.

I don't see any difference on that one. It will not affect anything, because what we are saying is, what we are giving is the number of steps we do, the difficulty of the steps that involve the specialty of the chemistry which involves all those things, get you the pricing, not the volumes.

Varun Bank
Analyst, Financial Investments

Okay. I understand, when we are working with innovators, things don't move too fast. Just get a sense of the progress on our plans to extend offerings to innovators through the initiatives that we have spoken about, so becoming part of life cycle management, manufacturing locations, and also power integration into API. How has been the progress in the last 1 year, and what milestones do you think we have achieved, and what are our plans for next 1-2 years?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Yeah, we have not achieved any milestones, as you know, because of the COVID, it was delayed. Now, only they started coming into India for a visit, the customers, after 3 years of gap, I think. It will take time and even when they start, it will take a minimum of 3-4 years for any new opportunity to come in, other than the regular products that are going into the next step. That is the different departments in the same company. If it's a life cycle management, they have to do diligence and do all the validations and all that stuff. It will not be an overnight thing, scenario, but now it is starting back again because there was a pause for 2 years.

We actually supposed to be done in 2019, then there was the COVID, and next year, last year, at last, they will start coming in, but still they are not showed up. This year we see three or four, even for the regular business itself, they have just started coming in and we hope that things will start accelerating so that we'll have an opportunity to sell ourselves for various aspects, what we are talking about.

Anshul Jain
Analyst, Neo Markets

Can I ask two questions?

Operator

Sorry to join with you again. We have other questions mentioned in the queue.

Anshul Jain
Analyst, Neo Markets

Sure. Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Saurav from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Speaker 13

Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, how is this inventory situation in the CDMO security chemical? Given the some climatic condition, the inventory overhang at the inventory?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

The second part will be, I mean, a little bit soft. That's what they claim to be, because they may be looking the orders and all that stuff. I mean, sowing the crop and all that stuff. Post that, it should come back to the normal. That's why I said a little bit soft at this time. Quarter-on-quarter basis is not clear. Year-on-year basis it will match. That's what our hope.

Speaker 13

Is it the case for all the molecules, in section?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Not all the molecules, some of the molecules.

Speaker 13

Okay.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

For us, only one molecule. For us, one molecule only.

Speaker 13

Okay. thank you. The second question, the change of volume. If you can give, you know, you have five, three molecules?

Rishab Barar
CDR India, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

We have 5 interface 3 right now. For 3 molecules, we have 5 interface what we are supplying right now. Within the inventory, we do not have the visibility as of now from the customers about when it is going to be moving into the commercial. As and when it happens, probably we will be able to inform.

Speaker 13

Oh, yeah. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Is from line of Unique PMS. Please go ahead.

Speaker 14

Hi, good afternoon, ma'am.

Operator

Sorry, can you trust me? Your voice is breaking. Can you come in a better reception area, please?

Speaker 14

Is it any better?

Operator

No, sir. It's still sounding the same.

Speaker 14

maybe now?

Operator

Yes.

Speaker 14

Yes. My first question is on Cohance. If, if we can share some updates, some numbers, if you can. The last we had updated was what they did in FY 2022. If, if you can share something about that.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

This is regarding Suven Pharmaceuticals. Nothing has been done. We have, but I cannot tell you anything, somebody else's numbers here. Please excuse us.

Speaker 14

No, sir, I understand. See, when we made this announcement, we were thinking that we'll get someone from Advent come in for the call, because for an existing shareholder, sir, ultimately.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Let me tell you something. This is an ongoing process. Nothing has been changed. Suven is run by the existing management. Nobody will be coming from other side until the transaction takes place. Period.

Speaker 14

Okay. No, I agree on this point, but fine. My second question is on the pharma. Usually, you know, obviously, we have a six-month outlook or six-month demand that you can see. You just talk about what the challenges that you're seeing in chemical, are you talking in pharma?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Pharma is going in the same way. There's nothing, as I said, we have our visibility is only very beginning of the year. We have visibility of 4 to 5 months, everything is as usual, like last year, nothing different. Only I said on the specialty chemicals, because it will be some softening in the Q2 , we just mentioned it. Otherwise, everything going on in the same manner as last year. For the pharma.

Speaker 14

My last question on Casper. I mean, have you started any commercialization there or not yet?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Where is that?

Speaker 14

Yeah, Casper.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Oh, yeah. Casper, only 1 product has been launched. We are expecting other approvals sometime in July and August and September. That time.

Speaker 14

How many molecules being launched?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

In Casper?

Speaker 14

Yes.

Operator

Sorry, we are losing your audio.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Yeah, it's five. Five we have approved. I've been waiting for the goal dates, for the five, the next 4 months-6 months.

Speaker 14

Okay. All the best.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Thank you.

Operator

Next question is from the line of Rishabh Shah, from OT Securities. Please go ahead.

Rishabh Shah
Managing Director and Head of Americas Insurance Solutions, Oaktree Capital Management

Yeah. I had a follow-up question. If you could, the formulation business, it's a business that you provide services to other pharma companies, which is also a bit lumpy business. Shouldn't that be very-

Operator

Sorry, your voice is not coming clearly. Can you please talk through the hand?

Rishabh Shah
Managing Director and Head of Americas Insurance Solutions, Oaktree Capital Management

Yeah. Am I audible now?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Yes.

Rishabh Shah
Managing Director and Head of Americas Insurance Solutions, Oaktree Capital Management

Of course, when we make the intermediates for the molecules, first receiving the project or directly start with phase 1, then come to phase 2, and then look out for projects. I wanted some clarity on that, and the same question regarding the R&D.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

No, I don't think your understanding is right. In the innovative molecules, when you get to the phase one, if the molecule is applied in the phase one supply, if it is successful in the phase one, if it goes to phase two, you get the repeat of business. When phase two is successful in the clinical trial, you get the phase three supplies.

If the phase three is successful, you get the commercial launch supplies. That's the way it works. There is nothing like that. There is no guarantee that the molecules that we entered, everything will go into the next stage. This is a mix and match of these things. I mean, if you see, we have done more than 980 projects over the years, we have only 11 commercialized molecules.

This is a mix and match that gives you the business opportunity. There is nothing like, you don't go in phase 3 directly to the customer. You don't, because it has to start at least a minimum of phase 2. They will not change any customer. I mean, same customer will be supplying same product. They will have two or three sources to each molecule, each intermediate. We have sources. That's the way it works in innovation.

Rishabh Shah
Managing Director and Head of Americas Insurance Solutions, Oaktree Capital Management

My last question is, sir, how are we different from a configuration, let's say, a big player like Divi's? How do we manage with them? How do we compete with the player who's operating at such a big scale?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

It is not the big scale. We are not into the generics. We are not into the big way into the what do you call, the APIs and all. We are into the innovation. You have to understand is, innovators will not go and source phase I molecules from two different companies.

If they come to Divi's, they go to Divi's only. If they come to Suven, they come to Suven only. After that, it is success of the molecules, and based on that, the repeat business comes. There's nothing like a competition that way. It is not the volume of the business that comes in. It's only at the commercial level that it comes in, and the generic price that comes into picture. Otherwise, it is the evaluation, I mean, the process that takes with the clinical trials. The success in the clinical trials will give you the, I mean, business opportunity for us.

Rishabh Shah
Managing Director and Head of Americas Insurance Solutions, Oaktree Capital Management

Okay. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Maheshwari from Omega Capital Advisors. Please go ahead.

Speaker 12

Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. My question was that you spent INR 285 crores on CapEx, in FY 2023. Can you please elaborate in terms of what are the areas where you spent, this CapEx on?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

It's mainly the replacement block in CFAs. bulk of the money goes there. The remaining are all the balancing equipments and all that stuff.

Speaker 12

Okay. The CapEx for the R&D move.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

No, that's not yet happened. That's not yet happened, because this is only proactively we are taking the permission from the board. As and when the government asks us to move, we need to be prepared. That's why we've taken. As of now, there is no GO issued, but it can be, it's imminent. It will happen sometime soon. I think it is all depending on the pharma city being, ready for the, operations. I think that time they issue GO that you need to move. From that time, we'll have 2 years plan at least.

Speaker 12

Okay. Sir, the replacement of these equipments or the CapEx, Would it be adding to the sales or improving productivity for us?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

You see, when you are talking about a 35-year-old company, and the old blocks are there, which regulatorily may not meet, and also structurally may be a problem, safety aspect is a problem, so we need to have a replacement block.

In the new process, you may have a little bit additional capacity that comes into the picture, and more than that, it will be having a regulatory and automation and productivity related benefits also will accrue to us, but not substantially. Mind you, it's a replacement, but with the benefits equivalent to it, so that you can take more projects.

Speaker 12

Okay, great. Just on Casper, while the, when we acquired the facility, the intention was to do certain molecules from, on the formulation space. Is there a possibility for us to offer formulations for our existing innovator, clients as well, where we are providing them intermediate, chemicals and then making formulations for them as well?

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

But that, the Casper facility is only formulation facility, it's not a bulk facility. You can offer R&D services to anybody, and if they are interested in getting it, and that is a forward, integration and also life cycle management in the same space. That's what we are looking for. Not only the Casper, but also in the Suven side, we have the same facility, so we can do that, too. It is not, just, I mean, it takes time and, for the customers to come and, do that, but in Casper, it's not to the APIs or intermediates, only formulation and R&D.

Speaker 12

Great. Great. Lastly, just on the phase three molecules, you mentioned that there is no visibility of the willingness.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Yeah, as of now, there is no indication that any of we can see striking results of. Unless the results are out, we will not be able to know. Right now, we don't have any guidance on that.

Speaker 12

Okay, great, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Venkat Jasti
Managing Director, Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited

Thank you, everyone, for tuning in for the update on the results year ending March 31st, 2023. As I said, it is too early to give us any guidance for us. Other than that, pharma trends are going good at this time. The traction is a little bit slower in the new project execution, but we hope that, based on the conversations we had at PGH and PGA, that we're likely to get that in the 3rd quarter timeframe.

The specialty chemical side, there will be some small deferment to shipments because of the climate conditions elsewhere. That will go back to 3rd and 4th quarter into the full swing. We hope to continue the business as usual, with the same margins we'll be keeping. Hope you tune in to the results update by next time in August. Thank you one and all.

Operator

Thank you very much. On behalf of Suven Pharmaceuticals...

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