Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Data Patterns (India) Limited Q3 FY 2026 earnings call hosted by Go India Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Ms. Monali Jain from Go India Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Well, Right, good morning everyone, and welcome to Data Patterns (India) Limited call to discuss the Q3 and nine-month FY 2026 earnings. We have the senior management of the company on call, Mr. S. Rangarajan, Chairman and Managing Director, and Mr. Venkata Subramanian, Chief Financial Officer. We must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward-looking statements and must therefore be viewed in conjunction with the risks that the company may face. May I now request Mr. Rangarajan to take us through the company's business outlook and financial highlights, subsequent to which we can open the floor for Q&A? Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Monali. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us for the Q3 and nine-month FY 2026 earnings call. I trust you had an opportunity to review our earnings presentation available on the stock exchanges and on our website. FY 2026 is shaping up to be a good year in line with our expectations. Our order book has reached an all-time high of INR 1,868 crores, largest in the history of Data Patterns, underscoring our strong execution capabilities, deep domain expertise, and growing relevance within the defense ecosystem. Order inflows during nine-month FY 2026 until date have remained healthy and well-diversified across services and applications, reflecting increasing customer acceptance of our products and solutions. Key wins during the period include large production and development orders for electronic warfare suites from ECIL and the Ministry of Defence, further strengthening our position in high-value, mission-critical programs.
Our export order book remains healthy at approximately INR 63 crore, and exports continue to evolve as an important pillar of our long-term growth strategy. We are actively engaging with our customers across international markets while strengthening our export-focused marketing and business development activities. We continue to execute regular business with the U.K. and expect export momentum to improve further as our complete system offerings mature. We believe this strong momentum is sustainable. The recent union budget has also reinforced the government's long-term commitment to defense modernization and indigenization with a meaningful increase in capital procurement. The sharp rise in allocations for other equipment, including radars, electronic warfare systems, missiles, and advanced electronics, clearly signals a focus on new-age defense technologies. This aligns extremely well with Data Patterns' core strengths and long-term strategic direction, positioning us favorably for future growth. Let me give you all a brief overview of financial performance.
During Q3 FY 2026, we delivered a strong quarter, with revenue growing 48% year-on-year, to INR 173 crores, supported by improved execution across defense programs. On a nine-month basis, revenues increased 86% year-on-year, to INR 580 crore, reflecting a meaningful scale-up in defense-led execution. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 78 crores, up 44% year-on-year, with EBITDA margins sustained at a healthy 44%. Profitability remained robust, with PAT rising 31% year-on-year, to INR 58 crore, translating to a net profit margin of 34%. Overall, we're pleased with the quality, consistency, and resilience of our earnings. In addition, we're pursuing co-development activities with global defense majors, particularly in radar and electronic warfare domains. These partnerships are aimed at developing solutions not only for Indian defense requirements but also for global markets, enabling us to leverage our competencies on a worldwide scale.
We're also engaging with Indian large corporates to build an Indian defense ecosystem. We have partnered with Bharat Forge to bid for the AMCA production and are one of the three shortlisted to get the RFP. We're also attempting to develop other electronic systems to strengthen the Indian content with Indian IP, with Indian large corporates in line with the GoI stated objectives of Atmanirbhar, besides providing a competitive edge to our partners. We're actively involved in developing the smart cockpit and mission systems for LCA Mark II, which we believe will be adopted for the AMCA. We're also offering the advanced search sensors like Infrared Search and Track and Missile Approach Warner for LCA Mark II in partnership with a European partner made in India content. Strategically, Data Patterns is steadily transferring from a subsistence supplier to a full systems and solution provider for the defense sector.
Our focus is not limited to any single platform or application. We're actively pursuing opportunities across radars, electronic warfare, avionics, seekers, and other mission-critical defense electronics, and we selectively undertake strategic contracts that offer long-term relevance and scalability. We continue to invest ahead to offer strategic systems with in-house IP, meeting user timelines, which will give us a competitive edge. Our internally funded development is advancing well and should be offered to the users in the coming years, which should scale our revenues. The long-term goal is to scale revenue meaningfully over the next three years while maintaining high profitability, technological independence, and selective global expansion. Looking ahead, with a strong policy environment, rising defense allocations, increasing indigenization, and a clear shift towards advanced electronics and systems, we believe Data Patterns is well positioned to benefit from long-term defense spending.
We remain committed to delivering 20%-25% revenue growth over the medium term, maintaining healthy EBITDA margins, and preserving our net debt-free balance sheet. With that, I will now request Venkat to take you through the financial performance
in detail. Thank you, sir, and good morning, everyone. I will take you through the key highlights of our financial performance for the quarter and nine months ended December 31, 2025. Q3 FY 2026 revenue stood at INR 173 crore, registering a strong 48% year-on-year growth driven by improved execution across multiple defense programs. Revenue for nine months FY 2026 increased sharply by 86% year-on-year to INR 580 crores, reflecting significant scale-up in operations and sustained execution momentum during the year. Production contributes highest to the revenues at 57%, followed by development at 37%.
EBITDA for Q3 FY 2026 stood at INR 78 crore, up 44% year-on-year, with EBITDA margins maintained at a healthy 44%, highlighting the strength of our operational model. For nine-months FY 2026, EBITDA grew at 42% year-on-year to INR 178 crore, supported by favorable execution mix and operating leverages. Net profit for Q3 FY 2026 was INR 58 crore, up 31% year-on-year, translating into a net profit margin of approximately 34%. PAT for nine-months FY 2026 stood at INR 133 crore, reflecting 23% year-on-year growth despite quarterly variations in execution mix. Gross margins remained strong during the quarter, reflecting the high-value nature of our product portfolio and strong in-house capabilities. Overall profitability continues to remain healthy and resilient. Working capital remains well controlled, and we continue to focus on efficient execution and prudent capital management.
With the record order book, strong execution visibility, and disciplined cost management, we remain confident of achieving the full-year revenue and EBITDA margin guidances. That concludes the financial highlights from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question comes from the line of Amit Dixit from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for the opportunity. Congratulations for a good set of numbers. A couple of questions from my side. The first one is going back to the EBITDA margin. I mean, 46.5% is a number that no other radar electronics company has achieved in the world, possibly at this point in time. While you highlighted in the prepared remarks that it is on the account of favorable execution mix, but what we see in the execution mix is that there are avionics coming, there is EW systems. So, I mean, it's all about our core platforms that are coming to fore that seem to be sustainable. So I just wanted to understand what kind of EBITDA margins do we expect, given that these are your focus areas in the future as well?
See, EBITDA margins is a composite addition of various contracts executed during the quarter or the year. So it will depend on the competitive scenario, plus what products we are really doing, and how much of it is designed by us and how much bought out is going to be there. What you see when the EBITDA margins are higher, the gross margin more importantly than EBITDA margin, will be in products which are completely designed in-house. Why is that higher? Because the building blocks which some of the companies import, even including large corporates outside India, when they build the overall system based on the building blocks imported or bought out. Whereas, we actually design the building blocks, work on a raw material cost, and write off the revenue expenses on the year of development as part of our P&L.
So when this adds up and we use our own kind of building blocks into end systems, the gross margin goes up. But you need to keep in mind that we have done all the development, and the cost attached to it has actually been written off. If we were to not do that, then the EBITDA margins would probably be much lower. So that is to answer this. And then, generally, we try and address markets based on our strength of products rather than competing in every area where we buy and sell or trade or integrate alone. We do not participate in such contracts. We participate to build IP. And those contracts where there's a lot of Indian there's also a lot of DP content, that is where we participate. So largely, the EBITDA margin should be similar to what we have been presenting till date.
Of course, there will be changes because some of our systems, there has to be integration happens, and trucks have to be brought and things like that on a system level. In those contracts, the EBITDA margin or the gross margin comes down. Consequently, the EBITDA margin comes down. I hope I managed your question. It's not a straight answer because the EBITDA margin is a mix of so many things as part of the execution of various kinds of contracts we take up.
Quite clear, sir. The second question is essentially on exports. Now, looking at the current EU-India FTA and the possibility of some of the big bang deal happening, particularly on Rafale, I mean, and there could be some reciprocal element to it, while I don't want to go into that, the point is that we have made a good foothold in the export market now with PAR and all, and export revenue is 9.6% in this quarter. So I just wanted to get a sense on what all products we are kind of seeing a good traction in the export market and how this EU-India FTA is going to help us. So from an overall perspective, from a macro sense, if you can give us some picture on that, sir.
The opportunities are fairly large in the world market today. Earlier, India used to be a low-cost country sourcing for the world market. But what we have done, what we are doing is actually IP-driven products. So there's a shift in what we do and what typically is imported, especially in the defense scenario. But of late, because the spend in the European markets is going to go up due to geopolitical environment, I think there's an opportunity for us, companies like us, who have strong IP-driven product development capabilities, to participate and address some of the needs where they will be spending. We need to do a lot more work in the export market, go meet people, talk to them, invite them here. All this has to happen. So we've already started doing this before the FTA was signed.
There has been some considerable traction with a few companies, and they've shown a lot of interest in what we're doing to see whether this can be deployed or used or modified for their requirements in their avionics and other areas of operation. We've started getting RFPs from them, and hopefully, this will all turn out into contracts going ahead. So we need to these are early days. We need to actually do a lot more work in the export market, build a team together, and drive the export market on a consistent basis to see that, two years, three years down the line, we have a steady business which can scale. We have competitive advantages in terms of competencies, which is world-class. Second, our cost of development is far lower than the cost of development in Europe.
Third, since everything is done in-house, more than what the large corporates do, because they rely on a lot of subcontractors to do it, they're able to bring an economy of scale and cost to them. Fourth, the time frame which we can deliver, they are just astonished that we can deliver these things in a time frame which they never imagined is possible. And they like that especially because they have a need, and the need has to get unaddressed, and they're not able to actually deliver to their customers for a few years. And we bring in that additional strength to see that deliveries can happen early. On top of that, we are also willing to co-invest in some of the product development which can be used worldwide. This is also of interest to them.
And since we've raised money and we have money in our kitty, we can co-invest not just looking at the Indian markets but also the world market as we go along. So there's a multi-pronged strategy on exports which we need to formalize, and we are thinking about it, put a team behind it, and start this activity probably next year early to see that some traction happens and export is possible. We're also attempting to do some similar things in the U.S. markets. Now, the trade agreement in the U.S. is also done. The duty structures have come down. So I think we should be able to get some early wins in all this. It'll take some time because it'll be early wins for where they get used to our culture, our quality process, etc., etc., because these are all certified programs.
Once the confidence comes, I think the scale can happen much faster than what we can do in India. We have seized the opportunities. We understand it. We are very excited about the opportunities that are happening. Especially, it fits our kind of development capability we have done. There were 1,100 engineers recruiting another 150 engineers this year. We are building a competency skill which will be useful in these areas. Earlier, the opportunities were not there. The opportunity is opening up now. I hope we are able to address the opportunities satisfactorily and grow the business.
Great, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, please restrict yourselves to two questions. If you have any more questions, you may rejoin the queue. Our next question comes from the line of Hardik Rawat from IIFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity, and many congratulations to the management team on the robust quarter and healthy growth and inflows. So my first question is with regards to the inflows themselves. So the PPT and the press release mentioned that orders negotiated which are not awarded as on date stands at about INR 11 billion. Just wanted to understand why when do you expect these orders to be received, and what could be the broader mix between development and production within this? Any large orders that you'd like to highlight which are within the orders that are negotiated?
I think these contracts should happen in the next one to two months' time because these are only document work which has begun and signed. So I think next one to two months' time, these should get converted into contracts. This consists of a large portfolio of products, some in the development area. But again, like I said in the earlier question, we've taken up contracts which are in the core competency area of Data Patterns. So it is more of redesigning what has already been designed for a different application, airborne application. That is one of the larger orders we've got which you should be getting or signing. And it's in line with our competencies. That's all I can say at this point. I don't want to get into the exact nature of the contract. I think once the contract comes, we will discuss this more in detail.
Fair enough, sir. With these orders coming in, we could possibly be looking at an order book of about INR 18 bilion-INR 19 billion whenever they come. It should be very sizable. Like it was mentioned in the PPT, the highest ever for us. What would be the execution cycle, so to speak, for this order book?
Again, it varies. There are service orders as part of the contract, AMC, etc., which will be done over the many years. The order deliveries itself, some can be delivered next year, some year after next, etc. Again, it depends on the contract. There are multiple catch-up contracts which add up to this INR 1,800 crores. Very difficult to say exactly. I've not done the arithmetic to see this. We'll be doing it now. But these are not the only orders. We also expect to sign more contracts in the next two to three months' time, probably another INR 500 crores-INR 600 crores of contracts which can get signed. During the course of next year, we're also looking at a number of single-vendor contracts based on what has already been designed and developed. That also is expected. The order book is expected to grow.
We are trying to see whether advanced action and design, advanced action on production can happen so that we can scale the business substantively in the next coming years.
Fair enough, sir. One last question would be with regards to the working capital cycle. While you mentioned in the opening remarks, I do know it's been fairly contained. Could you please put a number on that? And in addition to that, our cash on hand is at the lowest in the last eight to nine quarters. Could you also please delve a bit into what kind of receivable cycles you're looking at within that interface?
Can you repeat the first question? I couldn't understand it.
So you mentioned that working capital has been largely contained. If you could put some number to that as to what kind of working capital days we're looking at? And secondly, our cash balance is at one of the lowest levels in the last eight quarters. How are you seeing the situation? And do you expect some large-sized receivables that are sort of materializing in the near future?
I'll ask the second part of the question. Venkat, you answered the first part. The debt situation has been extended, but we are expecting all the cash to come in the next three to four months' time. And that will, again, take care of the cash on hand situation which you talked about. There are some large development contracts you've taken the last year and the year before last. And they are in the final stage of acceptance to the customers on integration. Once that is done, we expect the money to come in. These are large-value money which will be coming in, which will recharge our cash battery. So that is going to happen in the next two to three months' time, maximum of four months' time, I think, to collect all the money. So this is one.
The other one regarding working capital, I see Venkat will answer this question.
Yeah. See, working capital, it was around 428 days in March. It has come down to we have not published the balance sheet numbers for December, but internally, it has come down to 340 days. And we expect it to be remaining at the same level by March end also. But going forward, once all the collections happen, this will improve. And as we have been mentioning in our earlier calls also, over next probably some three to five years' time, it will gradually come down to 270 days-300 days. That is a working capital cycle that we are expecting in line. It is in line with our expectations only. Collections on development contracts are getting delayed, but the production contracts, we are able to collect it faster. So we expect maybe around 270 days-300 days of working capital cycle going forward, sir.
We also get advance against all these contracts to help us. So the net borrowing from banks is actually zero. We only work on bank guarantees. Non-fund limits is what we're working on. That is also the second point. Third is we've obtained very large development contracts the last couple of years. And all of them have very high potential of multiple times getting into production orders which can be a few thousand INR crores each. So we've selectively participated in programs that will give us long-term gain on a large scale, which is what the company is actually working towards, the whole organization working towards scaling up the technology. So it's in line with what we're expecting. And this working capital is going to be large. It's larger because of development contracts.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Dipen Vakil from Phillip Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good morning. Congratulations on a healthy execution. Sir, my first question is relating to the order inflow. Sir, we usually mention that our order pipeline is close to around INR 20 billion-INR 30 billion in the next 18 months-24 months. Considering that we are looking at strong order wins in the fourth quarter, would you like to update on the order inflow guidance going ahead as well as to what we are seeing, especially one is overall order inflow and another is on the recurring side of what kind of recurring orders can we expect going ahead?
I won't comment on the recurring orders, but I can comment on the order pipeline. Products we develop now, we can expect another $2 billion-$3 billion of order pipeline and capability. Matter of fact, in a couple of years, I think it should go much beyond that if what we think is going to happen. Of course, we have no control over the market and the timing of when the contracts come because it's a government all my business is government. But the products we have developed and how it's been appreciated by the customers and the quality and the reliability of the products and the advanced nature of technology which is deployed in the products, the requirements which we have quoted against and got the development contracts are all large-value contracts going ahead and multiple systems required across India.
So if this fructifies, our order book situation should scale up multiple X times in the next couple of years or three years. Time is what we expect. We've been driving the product development activities towards getting substantive revenues. And we are on track at the present moment. We're still work in process because the orders have not come. There will be products that have been delivered. But in our minds, it should turn out to be large contracts going ahead. This is one. Second is with our initiation into export markets also. We believe that this also should take off and start giving us some repetitive business off the board probably another couple of years down the line both in civil aviation as well as defense equipment. We're working on both sides with a few companies.
We can scale up the number of organizations and get the initial designs and initial products inside. I think the next two to three years, we will probably get repetitive business outside India. Here in India, mostly, it's project-based. So we're not able to predict repetitiveness. So we get into AMCA program and LCA and some helicopter programs and all of them. There is plagued by delays on deliveries from our ASEAN customers. Our product deliveries also get delayed. Acceptance gets delayed. But in the mature market where there is a need, this is predictable business is what we expect. Whatever orders we're getting from the U.K., it's a predictable business. They give you a long-term order which is monthly deliveries. We want a portion of our turnover to at least be that so that we can regularize these ups and downs unpredictably in the market.
We would like to do that. Strategically, I think that is necessary. So we're working both ends of the spectrum to see that we don't miss out on opportunities in India but also bring in some repetitive business in the foreign markets. We're working on both. It takes a bit of time because these are opened out just now to us. And we have to focus. We've been looking at India all through our life. Now, our focus is also shifting out of India along with the concentration in India. So we are aware of the opportunities and aware of how to scale this business and guided by our goal. I think we are on the right track. And we're very excited about the opportunities lying ahead.
Got it, sir. Sir, that's very encouraging. Sir, my second question is on the BrahMos side of it. So in this year also, major order received, we are looking at missiles from BrahMos. So is it like a new product? And any update on the seeker trials that were ongoing from BrahMos?
We've completed the seeker trials. We've got a development contract with marginal differences which will go into production orders. We'll be delivering it in the next one to two months' time ahead of schedule. I think we've done a good job in the product development. It's a reliable product. Once that is done, we expect BrahMos to start giving the production orders. We've also gone ahead and ordered the equipment for production testing. That will be arriving in the next three months or four months. We can set up a line for series production with month-to-month deliveries that happen starting 2026, 2027. This is one area we have done. Second is, other than BrahMos, we've also done a missile-to-missile higher-band seeker. That is also in the advanced stage of delivery, development, and delivery. We expect some repeat contracts there.
We want to focus on these kind of seeker capabilities with other OEMs to see whether we can use this for other OEMs and modify it for other requirements also. seeker should start in the—I don't know. We can't put a timeline. But what we hear is it should start by this year onward, this calendar year. There is financial year 2026, 2027. It should start getting production orders.
Got it, sir. Sir, congratulations on the BrahMos order. It was a long-awaited one. I'll fall back on the queue for further questions. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Shirom Kapur from Jefferies Group. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. I just want to ask on your order flow. So last quarter, you mentioned in your press release that you had about INR 550 crores worth of orders negotiated but yet to be received. This quarter, our order flow was about INR 240 crores. And you've also mentioned you have about INR 1,100 crores worth of orders negotiated and completed. So just wondering, INR 300 crores from that last quarter's number has spilled over. And is part of this negotiated orders? And that's the first clarification. Could you give that?
Actually, I've not done this calculation the way you're asking. Maybe you can write to Go India, and we can write back to you and do the let me look at the order for the total last quarter and this quarter and see whether there's an overlap or already it's been received. Let me do this exercise and get back to you.
Sure. No problem. And just on the timelines of these orders, so you mentioned INR 1,100 crores. You're expecting this in the next one, two months. And the other, in your presentation, you've also mentioned another INR 500 crores on top of this, right, which could also come this quarter. So are we expecting around INR 1,600 crores worth of orders this quarter, it says, or could some of it spill over to next year? Just wondering on timelines.
It should happen this quarter.
Understood, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Aman Soni from Nvest Analytics Advisory LLP. Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible ?
Yes. Just be a little louder, Aman, and go ahead with your question. Thank you.
Hi. Is it fine now?
Yeah.
Yes.
Hello. Yes. Sir, most of my questions are answered. Just one clarification on this industry-wide shipbuilding CapEx happening over the next few years. So how does management assess the addressable opportunity here? Any of our product categories falling into that opportunity, sir?
We've not actually addressed shipbuilding as such. We work on equipment. We've not done any development on the platform management system, things like that, bridge management system, so many other things on the ship. Traditionally, they've been importing, and there are companies who actually focus on it many years. We've been actually working on sensors quite a lot. We've not done so many work on that. What we are trying to do is almost upgrades for Navy. We're trying to offer our Electronic Warfare suites, some of the radars, etc., and see whether those opportunities can be addressed. Presently, we are engaged in this kind of line of things. We've not actually looked at new shipbuilding. We have, of course, made some offers, but we've not got the contracts, though we have a lower support.
For example, in TACAN and some things that go into ships, tactical air navigation systems, things like that. We have products for these kind of things. Not yet got orders. So we may probably have to pursue such contracts. But at the present moment, we don't have anything which we can say is going to give us some regular returns.
Understood, sir. Secondly, on the exports part, you are very bullish on export. Exports will provide better revenue visibility, as you mentioned to one of the participants. So going ahead, currently, it is 9%-10% of our revenue this quarter. Over the years, how much percent of exports do you expect to the overall top line?
Very difficult to answer that question presently. What's happening is our Indian revenue model is increasing year to year. It's going to be substantive increase is going to happen in the next two years, three years' time. So I don't think the export will keep in pace with that kind of increased revenue in the domestic markets. The focus is in Indian domestic markets. But we do, over a period of time, maybe three years on the line, we'll have to build an export business which is sizable. Then we can talk about numbers which is meaningful. Today, it's very difficult to talk about this.
But to answer the other question on the shipbuilding or shipbuilding not there, we're also working with some foreign companies to see whether we can do Indian content for modernization of gun control, radars, IRST, that is, Infrared Search and Track, etc., which are modern sensors and fighting equipment necessary. And our ships have got old equipment. There's a requirement to modernize these kind of ships. The advantage is that if you can get in, of course, it takes time to prove the system on the ship and then get the inquiries. And it's a two-year kind of time frame or maybe more. Once you get in, there will be a number of ships which need upgradation. That'll give you a regular business year on year. So we're working on some kind of programs like this.
We have a lot of Indian IPs there, but we don't have all the applications in various areas for which we'll get partners. That application orientation they have, we will use and manufacture in India. But the main part will be designed by us in India. So the IP content is still retained. And that will be based on our core competency already developed. So we're addressing the market in different ways. I've not projected all this. These are all potential business but not projected because we're not sure when it will happen. What the size of business will happen is not sure. But it's like this. We are attempting a number of programs which can come out of the core competency which is being product competency built by us. It can be used in various kinds of platforms.
That is why in the opening remarks, I said we are not platform-specific. We can do a number of platforms. The capabilities are IP-generated. It can go to very, very many platforms. We have to go to the end, go through the process, go through certifications, qualifications, install the systems, and see where it goes to bring in scale, which is what we want.
Got it, sir. And one last thing.
I'm sorry to interrupt, Aman. Those were your two questions. I would request you to fall back into the queue. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Jyoti Gupta from Nirmal Bang Securities. Please go ahead.
It is not Jyoti Kaur. It's Jyoti Gupta. Good morning, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I wish you swift recovery and great health and great set of numbers. One, just wanted to ask, this sudden increase in your revenue, any specific orders that have been delivered, if you can elaborate. And second is, what is the status on fire control radars? Do you expect any orders coming through in the next couple of quarters? Or what is the status that you anticipate in the future?
To answer the first question, it's not sudden orders. There have been delays in getting the orders. It's got delayed very badly. We expected it to happen much earlier because of some process. It's got delayed. It's got bunched up now. So it's nothing sudden. We started work two years back for all these contracts. Suddenly, we don't get orders because it's a so this is not sudden. Second is, the fire control radars are still in development stage. It's going to take some time before this can realize order potential. We've taken money for QIP money to invest in large development activities which can give substantive revenue business of almost INR 15,000 crore of potential revenue. One is the fire control radars. Second is the modern EW suite which includes the powered jammers and the radar warning receiver and the ensuing kind of subsystems.
All of this is contributably designed by us. Matter of fact, as we speak, the users are in our office actually testing some of the products. The ones sitting in the products which have already been designed. So these are all on track, but it will take time. But it happens. It happens. We're talking about order book which the requirements are more than INR 10,000 crore. That is why the development cycle is also going to be long. But we have to certify it in the air. It's quite 30 years, sir. This will all happen over the next two years, three years' time. But in the next two years, three years, we have to continue with what we're doing, see the order book scales, the revenue scales, and we meet market expectations and our own ambitions to be a large corporate in the short term.
So this is the path in which we're going. We're building products for maybe four, five years down the line which will come into large orders. So we have medium-term, short-term kind of targets and a medium-term target and a long-term target. We're trying to see how to address all of them and build products. The important thing is build products. India is bereft of products because we're always importing products. So we want to build products in India, increase the total addressable market, and then compete. There's no point in my saying INR 300,000 crore is going to be spent in India on defense capital because we cannot address those INR 300,000 crore. So we have to look at more what is addressable by us. And the addressable market has to be increased so that we have a percentage gain in this which can be competitive, capability, etc., etc.
What do we need to do? How to address the market? And be ahead in that we need. It is modern, worldwide, world-class systems. So the attempt is to try to increase our TAM, and that's what we're trying to do with products. But it'll be deep products which are world-class and highly reliable. So the focus is developing such products. And fire control is just the radars on such products. We also see that with the international companies coming into C-UAS , they're also excited with some of the other products we're doing. And they also have some obsolescence. So we look at their obsolescence upgrade programs also and redesign the products already designed by us for the Indian. Suit the end customer requirements. That also, we are on the job, which is also from the same core competencies.
We build multiple solutions which can also help us reduce risk and also give repeatable business as we're going ahead.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Sucrit Patil from Eyesight Fintrade. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sorry, good morning to the team. My first question is, looking ahead, how do you see Data Patterns balancing between expanding its order book, ensuring timely execution of defense projects, and maintaining profitability? As the defense electronics space evolves with newer opportunities and customer requirements, what will guide your decision-making process on where to place the strongest focus in the coming years? That's my first question. I'll ask my second question after this. Thank you.
It's a bit not very clear question. Can you put it in fewer words so that I can answer the question? Because you talked about defense and modern electronics and reliability and all that. It's not what we're doing already. But I can understand the question.
Yeah. Yeah. I'll just rephrase it. I want to understand how do you decide when growth through new orders should be in the top of the list or when execution discipline or margin protection becomes more important? Basically, what is the thought process behind shifting focus as the conditions change?
We are very clear about contracts which we pursue. We want to build a profitable company. We are not going to be going after revenue business. It has to be bottom-line-driven business. We are very, very clear about it. We've always been doing that. It has to be IP-driven. It has to differentiate. And it has to allow us to build more products because without bottom line, we won't have the money to build additional product and scale the company. Yes, it's a longer, harder work. There is no easy way to it. But over the past 30-odd years, we've been doing that.
Now that the foundations are built and deep skills and product capabilities have been built within the company and infrastructure built, we don't see why we should change this to suddenly go into revenue business model and see that growth happens through revenue business at the cost of bottom line. We think that is not the correct thing to do, especially for the DNA of our company. This is one. Second is the opportunity in India is scaling up substantively. And that scale-up is happening. And looking at Make in India as a mandatory requirement, I think it supports the way we have been thinking about Make in India. Matter of fact, the last 20-odd years, if you come to our office and get exhibitions of ours, we always have a byline, "Make it in India" with pride. So we take pride in our products.
So because we take pride in our products, it's a reflection of what we are. We believe it has to be world-class. It has to be reliable. It has to be world-standard. So we try to attempt quality standards to that extent and go by it. We continue to go with the same DNA and our approach. We're not going to change the approach. And this approach is going to give us huge benefits going ahead. So how do I scale the business if it's going to be only bottom line? We quote or invest in products where there is large market available. And the gaps are there. In this scenario of Indian markets, there are gaps which are not filled by others and probably filled by foreign companies, international OEMs.
We try to address those gaps and try to replace those gaps with Indian products at a much lower cost and also see that if we have it customized to the customer requirements much faster ahead of time and support which is going to be obviously much, much better designed and made in India, we'll give you long-term support. We invest ahead to see that the products are available when the customer requires it. Yes, we take a risk of doing such things. But we want to differentiate ourselves from others. We build the products. We're incrementally building the products with core IPs. So our risk that way is also protected or not very high. This is our DNA. This is how we want to continue to do business.
I think that we are at the right time at the right place, not only for Indian context but also international context. We don't have exposure to international business. We'll make attempts to see that our presence is there. We start slowly scaling to international business also. But Indian focus is going to be the way we are. I think the scale is going to happen by itself. We are in the right track with the right products. I think scale will happen.
Thank you. Participants, please restrict yourselves to one question. If you have any further questions, kindly rejoin the queue. The next question comes from the line of Santosh from ThoughtPMS. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Congratulations on getting up the numbers. I just have a couple of questions. You didn't mention the TAM of about INR 15,000 crore-INR 20,000 crore. What is the sum from that? And where do you see those orders in terms of timeline?
I didn't understand the first part. The second part, timelines, is probably under three to five years. What is the first part?
Okay. You mentioned the TAM is INR 15,000 crores-INR 20,000 crores. What is the serviceable addressable market from that?
When I say addressable market, TAM is addressable market. INR 15,000 crores-INR 20,000 crores or much beyond that. If you take variants of what we develop to other programs outside India, it'll probably go more than INR 20,000 crores. So that's the reason we're putting deep money and larger development cycles to see that we address the market with a product which is not available in India.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vikas Desai from Serene Alpha Analytics LLP. Please go ahead.
Hello. I'm audible?
Yes, Vikas.
Yeah. Hi. I want to understand from you, although you addressed this question related to the other participants, on the current competitive landscape, particularly on our product category. As I am seeing many players now speaking about radars and EW space, spending on the R&D and the product development, I agree that we are ahead in this journey. But going ahead, if the competitive intensity rises and ultimately, it is a tender-driven business, so how do you see in terms of protecting our margins in the medium to long-term term?
We need to differentiate ourselves from competition. That's the only way we will get differential treatment. That's one. Second is, though, there are a number of companies talking radars and EW and all that, they're not developing all the portions of the radars. It has to be a collaboration or a number of companies have to do these parts to build a system. That also makes it more complex to build a complete system and offer a system as a system without contracts. It has to be more tender-driven and component or subsystem-driven where they become lower score in each of the subsystems and then try to get the parts. That doesn't give you a flavor or a competency to build the entire system. We went through this exercise about 15-18 years back and decided that this is not going to scale the business.
We need to build IP and build all parts of the system. So it's taking us time, build it, get reliability, and build that competency. So we are now here at what we are. Yes, competition is nimble and capable, and they will catch up or probably be even better than us. But we need to see what the landscape is and how we're doing it and address the landscape and see what we're doing there. But we want to get the early buy-ins. Once early buy-ins come, a number of years, the contract is protected. So we look at opportunities like this, get an early buy-in, and see how do we remain ahead of the game. This is what we need to do. We have to be watchful, build competencies which are differentiated, and address the customer requirements better than others and be competitive.
Coming back to the bottom line, the bottom line is the last portion which I look at today because I can compete in almost all contracts in DRDO today. We can do everything what electronics DRDO wants. But we don't do this because for the exact reason what you said, there are a number of other competitors and subsystems who want to go for the L1 business to get a handle in those areas. We don't want to prove ourselves again and get a handle and go that path and put our efficiencies and our bandwidth in such programs. I would rather focus on the bandwidth and build end products which can scale substantively going ahead. We differentiate the contracts. We choose contracts what we want to build on and try to go after contracts which we think we want to do and be competitive there.
It's a question of strategy, how we want to scale the business. We are clear about what we want to do. Look at opportunities individually. Look at whether it is going to be strategic to our thought process of growth or it is going to be one of those systems where it will be only L1 to keep our engineers engaged. We don't want to keep our engineers engaged at this present moment. They're already engaged. Everybody's working seven days a week. We will differentiate based on the tenders that we're in for. In the meantime, we'll build without tenders. We'll build our own products. Be ready for future orders as soon as it happens. We believe it will happen.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Aman Vij from Astute Investment Management. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir. My question is on the seeker side. So when you talk about INR 1,500 crore kind of order expected in next quarter, you are not including seeker's order, right? That production order will be after that. That is one clarification. The question is also maybe I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. You're not quite audible. If you could change your location, that would help.
Yeah. Yeah. Is this better?
Yes, much better. Go ahead.
Yeah, sir. So my question was on the seeker business. So when we talk about INR 15 billion kind of order inflow for quarter four, we are not including the seeker production orders. Is the understanding correct? That is the clarification I want. And the question is also on the production line we are setting up. So you talked about other than BrahMos, also, we are looking at other seekers. So we are setting up maybe 15-20 seekers a month line or smaller or a bigger line. That is on the seeker side questions, sir. And one final question on Sukhoi upgrade also. So given we are doing pods and other things, so is it safe to assume including everything, it's maybe an INR 300 crore per plane opportunity for us? These are the two questions I had.
Yeah. The seeker business production order is not included in the next few months out of the book. So that is not included. Point, question number one. Question number two is there is no requirement for 20 seekers a month on the present contracts. We won't put infrastructure to do that. We have an infrastructure plan to address customer requirements and deliver ahead. But as and when the requirements go up, we can also scale up our infrastructure quite quickly since everything is designed by us. Even the test equipment is designed by us. Anything can be scaled up quite quickly. And we have the infrastructure done. We're also putting up an additional factory which is going to come up in the next one to two years' time with a large space available for production as well as design.
So we are continuously investing in infrastructure, CapEx, to see that we are ahead of the game, delivering ahead of the game. So that we're continuously doing. This is on the first part of the seeker business which you talked about. And the second part you talked about is the Sukhoi 30 upgrades. I don't think at the present moment, we're looking at INR 300 crore because, see, these are upgrade programs. And there are no contracts. They're actually building the products, going through certifications, and immediately, directly on 100 kind of seekers or 250 Sukhoi 30s. I don't expect the government to place orders for all of them one shot at INR 300 crore per aircraft to an organization that covers. So initial contracts which have come to HAL is about 84 aircraft. And their value is anywhere published.
We're trying to see whether some part of it can be done with whatever pods and whatever you talked about. As and when our content on the things go up because it's not very simple to get content on aircraft because we are a private sector. Information on HAL would like to do a lot of them themselves. But it's going to be very difficult to get their content as we go up. We are taking an opportunity where gaps are available, address the gaps. We're going to see when the confidence of the user builds up, we can get more content and increase our scale for aircraft. This is what we're doing. Other than that, separate inquiries are going to come for 100 pods, etc., sets. That is separately also happening. Other than the 84, it's cleared for HAL. We look at opportunities.
And then we will say what kind of numbers we can put inside. At the present moment, it is definitely not INR 300 crore.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Jaykant Kasturi from Bandhan Alternates. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good morning, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Good set of numbers. Sir, I remember just a while back, you talked about the civilian side, especially now that we are seeing news coming in from HAL is now apart from the fighter aircraft, they are now constantly being on the civilian side of the aircraft. So what kind of opportunities do you see in that in terms of some electronic products? Or what is the kind of addressable market do you see in coming 2-3 years? Yeah.
It's very early stage. They can't comment on it now. They're exploring opportunities. They're trying to work with 1 or 2 OEMs to see whether they can do some products for them. It will take some more time, maybe a year or 2 years or 3 years, 2 years before a predictable revenue model can be told to market and investors. These are all exploratory kind of businesses you're doing. The intent is to get into civil markets because volumes are much, much larger in defense. And it's a month-on-month capability. And once we bring in the requirements, scaling can happen quite quickly at a very large scale because the numbers are very, very large. And also, cash flows are very different. So as part of business initiative, it is necessary or mandatory to see that we scale in these areas.
We are doing some exploratory work in this but not to give you any data at the present moment.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vishal Sheth, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
This is regarding the Uttam AESA radar which is developed by LRDE. My question is whether this Uttam AESA radar has Data Patterns role to play in it? And is it a competing product or a complementary one to our existing product line?
At the present moment, for the Uttam you're talking about, we don't have a role to play in that. So it's a very similar product we've designed. And we're looking at partnership with DRDO or LRDE to see whether we work with our radar as against working with the Uttam as a second alternative. We don't know how it goes. If it doesn't happen, we go alone and try to build the radar directly for air force. Both options are open. It depends on how the alignments take place. But presently, we don't do anything in Uttam.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Nishant Chauhan from Geojit Financial Services. Please go ahead. Nishant, please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Am I audible? Yeah. Am I audible?
Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Earlier, you mentioned something about AMCA, sir, that we've been shortlisted for the next round. So are there any timelines to watch in terms of what happens next and how far are we from the prototyping stage and everything? And a related question would be, should one completely ignore the scope of HAL into this program as of now?
So what is published, I'm talking about. I'm as knowledgeable as you are because you're not told the same thing. If you follow us, you'll know a bit more than us. But regarding HAL participation, it's not being selected, downselected to the 3 to receive RFP, what I hear. Regarding timelines, what ADA is saying is 3-6 months, the contract should get placed. You have to go by what they say. I have no inside information to say anything different. Then the program is on. Whoever gets the contract, the program is on. The details of the program, the RFP details, are not yet published. So I'm not at liberty to say anything at the present moment. Even if they're published, we'll be signing an NDA. So I won't be able to talk about it.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Akshay Jogani from Xponent Tribe. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Congratulations on a great set of performance. Sir, I wanted to continue on the BrahMos seeker bit. Every year, what we hear, what we see on the internet is that we make about 100-odd missiles, and we increase the capacity to 150. Assuming that we increase the capacity, the seeker requirement would then also be 150. What is our sense of the share of wallet that we get? Do we think we can get all of the 150 to make as we get the production orders? Or do we think it'll be half of it? Hence, what is the kind of capacity you are currently working with that you want to add? Thank you.
Yeah. First is I don't have knowledge on how many of the missiles actually get fitted with seekers. That's based on the contract from customer to BrahMos. And we are not privy to such information. What I can say is the inquiry comes to us. What the order comes to us, we can only talk about it. And here, say, on the scale, what I hear is that the requirements are large because it's a successful missile. And they are planning to buy more of them. And some more are being exported also. So we need to go with whatever they say. And I have to go with what RFP I get and contract I get. I can't talk about work share between us and somebody else because I don't have any idea really what it is. We will be able to tell you what we get orders.
What we hear is that the requirements are large. That's the present extent of my knowledge.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that would be the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for their closing remarks.
Thank you all. Thank you for tuning in to the Q3 nine-month presentation call with investors. As we've been saying during the question-and-answer session also, we are very committed to building scale in this business. The requirements are large. The government is giving us a lot of opportunities. Largely, India is still importing very major sensors and technology products and systems. We want to address that portion of the business and see what is it we can do in India and how the IP can be more and the Indian content can be more. The government also says that a large portion of this should be made Indian-made. That also enthuses us to see that we invest more. Obviously, investment and development will happen when the contracts happen and business happens.
I'm happy to say that the business, whatever we designed in the last couple of years, is getting into the end stage where we expect some very large contracts to happen in the next one to two years' time which can rapidly scale up the company's business. Once we do that, I think we'll be in a different scale to probably address larger markets as we are going ahead. We're also looking at not just India, like I said. We're also looking at export. Maybe give a three-year to five-year kind of horizon to see how to scale that business model and go. The third portion is also building an Indian ecosystem with large defense contractors in India, see whether partnerships can be done, forged. It's not easy. But we're going to make an attempt. We've started with Bharat Forge. Let us see what we get out of this.
It's all, of course, long term. It's not going to be short term. But any development in defense is a long-term program. But this will build the foundation to scale up later. As far as the short and medium term, I think the order book is scaling up very nicely. We will scale up the order book in the coming year also, which will also give us that whatever projection we want to do, multiple X the turnover which we did last year or this year, we should be able to start doing in the next three years' time. So this we will work on and look at other opportunities, how to scale the business to be a large corporate in the next five to seven years. That is our ambition and vision.
And this all will come out of internally developed and also with partnerships, but a lot of IP being done within Data Patterns. We are building the skill sets in terms of people capabilities. We're also building infrastructure and investing in infrastructure, seeing that we address these opportunities as and when it happens. And be ahead of the game as far as possible. So we are trying to get into also this revenue model on a quarterly basis, a repeat revenue model, give that ups and downs to reduce the up and down for project model. We're trying to see what is the best way to do this, looking at various opportunities and see strategize, see what is it we need to design on. It's a bit tougher.
But we want to go in the direction also to see the smoothing cash flows and things like that and get an order book. So we are attempting to do a whole lot of things. We are happy to say that these are all work, finding out the way we want. There have been some delays. But anyway, that's part of the problem with government-driven orders. We know they're going to be. So we need to have a bouquet of products to see that the delays are not affecting our scaling ambitions and revenue growth as we plan to be. We want to be an IP-driven business, as I keep telling you, not to be a top-line business. We continue to strive to be an IP-driven business. And we're looking at other opportunities like anti-drone systems.
We have a product now designed for anti-drone, both passive as well as active anti-drone as well as jamming. So we built some products out of whatever existing products, getting to see whether we reposition these products. End applications can be large. So we're doing a lot of good things. I hope that all this, what we've done, finally goes into contract. I believe there's a need in the market. I think we are in the right direction. We're very, very enthusiastic and committed to what we're doing and excited that the opportunities are happening. And I think we're going ahead. We will build scale as we go along. It's what we think presently. Anyway, thank you very much for listening in, asking the questions. Please, if you have anything further, please write to Go India. And we will respond to your questions one-on-one. Thank you very much again.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Go India Advisors, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.