Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 and FY 2025 earnings conference call of DCM Shriram Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during t he conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Siddharth Ranganaker from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Sejal. Good afternoon and welcome to DCM Shriram Limited's Q4 and FY 2025 earnings conference call. Today we have with us Mr. Ajay Shriram, Chairman and Senior Managing Director, Mr. Vikram Shriram, Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Aditya Shriram, Deputy Managing Director, and Mr. Amit Agarwal, Group CFO of the company. We shall commence with remarks from Mr. Ajay Shriram and Mr. Vikram Shriram. Members of the audience will get an opportunity to pose their queries to the management following these comments during the interactive question-and-answer session. Before we commence, please note that some of the statements made on today's call are forward-looking in nature, and a note to this effect has been included in the conference call invitation, which has been uploaded on the stock exchange website. I would now like to invite Mr. Ajay Shriram to give us a brief overview. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Siddharth. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and a very warm welcome to all of you. To begin, I will present my perspectives on the external landscape and business dynamics. After that, Vikram will provide an overview of our financial performance. Once we share our insights, we would like to hear your views, viewpoints as well. The global economic growth is expected to be tempered due to complex geopolitical and economic environments, notably the ongoing tariff risks between the U.S. and the rest of the world, especially China. The imposition of reciprocal tariffs by the U.S. and the subsequent retaliatory measures by China and other countries can have far-reaching consequences, disrupting the international trade and financial markets. This has heightened uncertainty for businesses and policymakers worldwide. The recent standoff between India and Pakistan has the potential to escalate, adding to regional uncertainties both in trade and geopolitics.
Amid external headwinds, India's growth forecast for financial year 2026 has been revised down to 6.5% by the Reserve Bank of India in the month of April. However, the impact remains moderate, owing to strong domestic consumption. Further, to support growth, the RBI has cut interest rates and implemented liquidity-boosting measures. In this dynamic landscape, our company is further anchoring its strategic integration both forward and backward to secure value chains, optimize costs, and enhance competitiveness while simultaneously increasing scale. We are embedding advanced digital technologies in our way of working to improve our efficiencies as well as serve our customers better. Sustainability is core to our operations, and we are reducing our carbon footprint through renewable energy adoption, circular economy, and energy efficiencies.
Backed by completion of our CapEx programs, a healthy balance sheet, and strong cash flows, we remain confident in our ability to pursue these strategic priorities while maintaining financial discipline and operational excellence. I will now turn to the discussion on key industry dynamics across our variable businesses. First, I'll take up chemicals. Global and domestic caustic soda prices experienced volatility over the past financial year. However, the prices were better supported versus financial year 2024, led by higher demand from consuming sectors. Impact of reciprocal tariffs on India may be moderate due to the comparatively high tariffs imposed on other countries. However, the disruption in supply chains will lead to uncertainty in product prices. In terms of volume, it may be positive for India. India's caustic soda industry has reached a capacity of approximately 6.3 million metric tons, operating at about 80% utilization, which is a positive.
This has resulted in an oversupply of chlorine, putting pressure on chlorine prices. However, some relief was observed this quarter in chlorine prices, primarily due to maintenance-related shutdowns of a few production facilities. India continues to be a net exporter of caustic soda. Our newly commissioned projects are meeting performance norms and ramping up steadily, leading to volume-driven growth. Hydrogen peroxide market in India continues to be oversupplied on account of ramping up of domestic capacities, coupled with cheap imports from Bangladesh. We have also commissioned our second flexi-feed flaker plant in this quarter, and this has further enhanced our flexibility to operate on multiple fuels and thereby optimize its costs and increase exports. Our ECH project is under commissioning, and the distilling refining facility is operational. The commissioning of the ECH plant has been delayed due to an issue in one of the equipments.
This issue is currently being addressed by our technology suppliers, and we are going to start trial runs by the end of May 2025, that is, this month. The project work in other chlorine downstream projects of aluminum chloride and calcium chloride at Bharuch are progressing well. Our efforts towards cost efficiencies continue. The 120-MW power plant was one step in this direction. The 68-MW renewable power at Kota through group captive structure is progressing as per schedule. We have tied up the balance 6.6-MW green power at Bharuch and are expecting its injection in the next quarter, and are also working towards further optimizing energy costs in the existing power plants. As this round of CapEx is nearing completion, we are actively working towards epoxy and advanced material projects, including other growth options.
Vinyl, global demand for PVC remains subdued, leading to lower prices and a high level of inventory on the back of surplus production in China during the quarter. Reciprocal tariffs by the United States have led to China driving export prices further lower to clear excess capacity. In this context, imposition of anti-dumping duties on several countries, including China, has been delayed due to an irrational order in our judgment by the Gujarat High Court, excluding certain grades of PVC from anti-dumping investigation. We have already filed petitions against the same in the Supreme Court and are hoping for a favorable response. Once the duty is imposed, this will bring some relief from the low-cost Chinese imports. Domestic PVC demand has grown by 7% during the financial year. The cost structure for our vinyl business has improved.
We will continue with our strategy of utilizing the swing between PVC and carbide to maximize our margins. Sugar and ethanol: global sugar demand is expected to be higher than supply, leading to a reduction in the inventory levels by around 3.3 million metric tons due to lower production in India. The Indian sugar season 2024-2025 is expected to end with a stock of around 5 million metric tons. The production estimate is 26 million metric tons after a diversion of approximately 3.75 million metric tons for ethanol production. Consumption is estimated at 28 million metric tons and exports of about 1 million metric tons. Current prices are around INR 4,180 per quintal, and given the demand-supply scenario, the prices are expected to remain supported for the next financial year. Central government has increased the FR Ps by INR 15 per quintal of sugarcane for the next sugar season.
This increase is likely to put pressure on the margins, and hence there is a need to increase the minimum selling price of sugar and ethanol to support industry sustainability. Government of India continues to be aggressive in ethanol blending and is planning to set a new target of 30% ethanol blending by 2030 after successfully reaching the 20% mark in March 2025. Sugar season 2024-2025 has ended for most of the mills, with reduced crushing and recovery across Uttar Pradesh and Maharashtra, the key sugarcane-growing states. This decline is attributed to adverse weather conditions, crop diseases such as top borer and red rot affecting sugarcane yield and recovery. Our units concluded the season with a lower crush of 53.5 million quintals and a reduced recovery rate of 10.5% on final molasses.
To address these challenges, our business team is actively working on optimizing varietal selection and agronomy practices to support increased sugarcane availability, crush, and crush in the upcoming season. The recent uptick in sugar prices has helped in improving the margins of the business. However, the increase in sugar and ethanol prices has not fully compensated for the increase in sugarcane prices and reduction in sugar recovery and production. There is a need for a fundamental shift in sugar policy framework in order to make it remunerative in the long run for the farmer as well as the manufacturer. Our compressed biogas project at Ajwapur Sugar Unit has been commissioned in the current quarter. Fenesta Building Systems: the company continues to focus on strengthening its market presence by driving deeper penetration of existing products and expanding its portfolio through the creation of new revenue platforms.
Our strategic alignment is designed to enhance the overall customer experience while supporting sustainable business growth. Further, we have completed the acquisition of 53% stake in DNV Global Private Limited, a company present in the hardware space. This backward integration will unlock operational synergies in the supply chain, enhance customer experience by providing superior quality product range, and has the potential to create a new revenue stream for future growth. Our aluminum extrusion facility project remains on track and is progressing as per schedule. Collectively, these strategic initiatives are expected to enhance our position as a comprehensive solution provider in the building materials space and lay the groundwork for sustained long-term value creation. Moving on, the agri-input businesses portfolio comprises Shriram Farm Solutions, fertilizers, and the bio-seed businesses. Shriram Farm Solutions: the business continues to register double-digit growth in the top line as well as the bottom line.
The company's growth trajectory was led by robust volume expansion across business verticals, most notably in the research wheat segment, where SFS continues to fortify its position as a market leader. The business effectively navigated the climate volatility by ensuring placement of the relevant products as per farmer requirements and providing research-driven nutrition products which build stress tolerance in the crops. Notably, in the current financial year, SFS has launched nine new products in crop protection and specialty plant nutrition verticals, including four new products from our own R&D center. Shriram Farm Solutions continues to be at the forefront of technology adoption, leveraging digital platforms to expand farmer engagement, optimize logistics, and improve cost efficiency. Fertilizer: the urea industry continues to be stable. Our business is continuously improving energy efficiency and optimizing performance.
The budgetary allocation towards urea subsidy has been stable for the last couple of years, leading to reasonable subsidy arrears, which is a positive for the sector. The business is on a strong trajectory of turnaround, fueled by an enhanced range of hybrid seeds across various product categories, which shall also drive future growth. The expansion of corn acreage in key states, given the higher crop prices and the push for maize-based ethanol, has contributed significantly to its growth, alongside strong performance in paddy. We expect cotton to perform better in the coming season. I will now request Vikram to provide the financial perspective. .
Thank you. Good evening, everyone. I will now take you through the financial performance for quarter four, financial year 2025 Net revenues, net effects IQT for Q4 FY 2025 were at INR 2,877 crore versus INR 2,399 crore in Q4 2024, an increase of 20% year-on-year, driven by growth across all the businesses. PBDIT for Q4 2025 was at INR 426 crore versus INR 289 crore last year, an increase of 47% year-on-year. Chemicals: the business saw an increase in revenue of 52% year-on-year, led by caustic soda volumes that were up 29% on account of better capacity utilization and the new 850 TPD facility commissioning. ECUs were also up by 13%.
PBDIT increased by 223% owing to the volumes, prices, and lower input costs, particularly energy prices and efficiencies from the new 120-MW power plant. As mentioned earlier, new caustic soda capacities in India over the last few years are increasingly getting absorbed. However, chlorine surplus has increased, thereby putting pressure on chlorine prices.
Our projects of ethyl chlorohydrin, aluminum chloride, and calcium chloride will increase our captive chlorine consumption. We are exploring several other alternatives to enhance chlorine utilization and value addition. Vinyl: the vinyl business revenue increased by 2% year-on-year. PBDIT for the segment improved to INR 240 million as against INR 160 million last year, led by lower power and carbon material costs. Once the 68 MW of green energy comes online, it will help reduce our carbon footprint and enhance our cost efficiencies, supporting both environment and financial goals. Sugar and ethanol: sugar and ethanol business net effects IQT increased by 16% to INR 1,022 crore. Domestic sugar volumes were higher by 19% due to higher releases in the quarter. For the year, the volumes were in line with last year. Domestic sugar prices increased by 5% to INR 4,046 per quintal.
Ethanol volumes were lower by 16% on account of change in feed stock. PBDIT for the segment was higher at INR 252 crore as against INR 236 crore last year, owing to better margins led by sugar. Sugar inventory was lower at 3.99 million quintals as against 4.35 million quintals last year. Fenesta Building Systems reported a growth in revenue of 4% year-on-year, led by retail vertical. PBDIT for the quarter came in at INR 36 crore as against INR 44 crore last year due to higher fixed expenses, financing capabilities and capacities, along with higher sales and promotion expenses. Elevated expenditure levels anticipated to continue, driven by the strategic need to scale up our existing operations and add to the product portfolio and expansion into new business areas. The order book continues to be healthy. Shriram Farm Solutions: this quarter is an off-season for the business.
Revenues increased by 17% year-on-year, supported by volume growth across all verticals. Fertilizer: fertilizer revenues were higher by 3% year-on-year, which is mainly attributed to the higher volumes. Last year, in the same period, there was a maintenance shutdown. The prices were lower due to lower gas prices, which are pass-through. PBDIT was INR 10 crore as against INR 2 crore last year. Outstanding fertilizer subsidy was INR 151 crore as against INR 90 crore last year. Bio-seed: the quarter is an off-season for the bio-seed business. Revenues are up at INR 103 crore as compared to INR 73 crore last year, contributed by both domestic as well as international operations. PBDIT was marginally positive against INR 8 crore last year. Coming to the highlights for the full year of financial year 2025: financial year 2025 revenues, net effects IQT was up 11% year-on-year at INR 12,077 crore.
All the key businesses, especially chemicals, Shriram Farm Solutions, sugar, and bio-seed, contributed to the top-line growth. Similarly, PBDIT was up 35% at INR 1,472 crore. Chemicals, vinyl, SFS, and bio-seed were key contributors to the growth. With healthy cash flows across all our businesses and post-completion of large part of our CapEx, our net remained at comfortable levels of INR 1,395 crore as on 31 March 2025 versus INR 1,430 crore as on 31 March 2024. Return on capital employed for March 2025 has seen an improvement and came in at 14% as against 13.6% last year due to reasons explained above. Further, the CapEx incurred will start yielding returns going forward, and that is further expected to improve top-line and ROSI. The board has recommended a final dividend of 170%, amounting to INR 53.02 crore in the board meeting. The total dividend for the year is at 450%, amounting to INR 140.35 crore.
Our financial discipline ensuring a robust balance sheet, enabling agility to invest in R&D and scaling our businesses and adjustments and cost-side initiatives. That concludes my opening remarks, and I request the moderator to please open the forum for the question and answer session. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question- and- answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Nirav Jimudia from Anvil Wealth . Please go ahead.
So first is when we see our audience.
Hello? I would request you to please repeat your question again.
Yeah. Am I audible now?
Yes, sir.
Yeah. We can hear you. Yeah.
So sir, when we see our Q4 numbers, our PBIT in chemicals have improved by close to around INR 42 crore on a Q-on-Q basis, while the ECU is more or less flat. One reason you mentioned that we have seen an increase in the production volumes on a sequential basis. If you can share your thoughts here, like was power cost have come down sequentially, or was it because of higher hydrogen sales in the outside market because of our higher cost of production, or was it because we have ramped up the volumes and fixed costs were distributed over a larger part of the volumes? If you can share your thoughts here.
Yes. I think it's a combination of largely, I would say, two factors. One or three factors, actually. One is volume increase definitely was the significant part. Product prices also, if you see, versus I'm doing same period last year, the product prices were better, and even the variable costs have come down. I was talking more on a sequential basis. Yeah. Even on sequential, if you look at, large part will be coming from volumes. That is one. On the variable cost, because in this quarter, the maximum benefit of the P120, significant part, there was a lot of because of higher volumes, we use more of power from P120.
Sir, what could be the utilization levels of the newly commissioned 120-MW power plant?
The way to look at if I talk of Q4, the way to look at it is that our capacity was 1,350 tons per day before expansion. Post-expansion, it is 2,225 tons per day at Bharuch. Our utilization is close to about 1,700 tons per day, which was in Q4. It has changed up a little bit, but yeah, it is in the range of 1,700-1,800 tons per day.
Close to 170 MW of power was required this quarter in total?
Yes. Yes.
Correct. Correct. Sir, adding to it, last quarter you mentioned that our chlorine negative was close to around INR 9, and the quarter prior to that was close to around INR 6.50. How was the situation in Q4? If you can highlight a bit about the current chlorine prices, that would help.
The current chlorine prices are also in the range of minus INR 6,000.
Okay. Were similar chlorine prices or realizations in Q4 also INR -6,000 a kg, or was it a bit higher?
Yeah. In the same range.
Got it. Got it. Sir, last question from my side is, sir, when we see our chemical business sales of around INR 2,800 crore for this financial year, if you can share how much could be coming from the value-added products, like the chlorine derivatives as well as the other value-added products what we manufacture? If you can share some ballpark figures, that would also help.
See, majority of the revenue, I mean, I would have some numbers, but majority of the revenue still comes from caustic soda. Let's say if you talk of for the, you want for the quarter or for the full year?
No, no, sir. Full year would also help because my calculation shows it could be anywhere between INR 700- INR 800 crore. If you can just verify that number, that would be helpful.
Ballpark, I would say it is close to about INR 550 crore-INR 600 crore.
Okay. Okay. And is it possible to share what? Correct. Which includes hydrogen. Yeah. Got it. And sir, is it possible to share similar percentage numbers for PBIT? What could be the contribution to the PBIT for FY 2025 from these value-added products?
I would have it right away, product-wise. So maybe we can, we'll share with you separately.
Fine. Fine.
Additionally, just to add to that, we run a completely integrated complex. Correct. We continuously optimize for profitability at a complex level. With our new capacity having commissioned or getting commissioned, the absolute number and percentage of the value-added products will increase in the current coming year and in the years to come.
Got it, sir. I have a few more questions, but I'll join back in the queue. Thank you so much and wish you all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pujan Shah from Molecule Ventures. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yes, we are audible. Yeah. I think my first question would be on the PVC side. We know that the price has been eroded due to dumping from Chinese guys.
Could you kindly repeat that? I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you. Could you kindly repeat that? I couldn't hear you clearly.
Am I clear now?
Yeah. Please.
On the PVC side, just wanted to understand on a brief part that we know there is a subdued demand as well as dumping from Chinese guys out there. There is a delay in the implementation of EDD as well. Just wanted to know on a broader case if there would be an uptick in, let's suppose we see demand uptick and inventory restocking. Then how will the prices evolve? Will it go back to INR 170-INR 175 per kg, or will it remain in the same range because of the dumping from Chinese guys?
I think two things. One is good to see that the demand in India is consistently growing at 6%-8% a year. That is a stable position because of our domestic demand itself. Secondly, I think the anti-dumping duty issue has been in court for a long time now. The next hearing, actually, in Supreme Court is on the 9th, that is tomorrow. The industry is taking up very actively to see that there is a rational view taken on bringing anti-dumping duty against China because they are dumping at very low prices because of their problems in the tariff wars across the world. We are hoping to get some benefit soon.
That benefit would be around INR 5-INR 7 per kg if EDD gets implemented, right?
I think it's difficult to say because we don't know what the government is. The industry has made their requests based on the market prices, etc. We'll have to, I think, wait and watch to see what the government agrees to.
Right. Right. Got it. Sir, we have seen uptick in caustic soda in November, December. There was some bit of a price realization in China and PET. Then again, it was seen an uptick. Do you think that this price, which is prevailing right now, I am talking about the current price, which is INR 38, INR 40, which will prevail for the year because there is no addition of the capacity coming in FY 2026? Additionally, there is some shutdown due to surplus capacity. Do you feel that this price would remain sustainable going forward? And this ECU of INR 30 can be inched up due to impact of chlorine. Will be a bit of a neutral?
You're absolutely right that the prices have moved up and then have come down slightly more recently. As we all know, there are many factors that go into determining the price. It will be hard to predict the prices going forward. As you rightly mentioned, there are new capacities, but large capacities are coming one year and two years from now. There is still some time for that. We do expect prices to remain healthy and remain sound.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Surabhi from NV Alpha. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity.
Sorry, could you just hold? I would request you to please use your handset.
This is the handset. Am I audible now?
I would request you to be a little louder. Thank you.
Right. Okay. The first question is regarding Fenesta. You mentioned in your opening remarks that there were some higher fixed costs and higher sales expenses. If you could quantify that and what kind of added expenses are we going to do in FY 2026? Some more color on that. Secondly, once our ECH plant commissions this year, hopefully, what kind of utilization level do you see in the first year?
On the fixed expenses of Fenesta, if we look at the full year as a whole, there has been an increase. I think giving exact numbers at this stage may not be possible. What is important to understand is that given the increased competition in the space and also the verticals that we are entering into, it will require us to spend more on sales and marketing. We will see, as you mentioned in the opening remarks as well, that we will continue to see elevated levels of expenditure on this account as well as on the people account as well. That is point number one. Second, you mentioned about ECH. ECH, we will be commissioning in phases.
First phase of commissioning will happen in June. Early June, we should be commissioning. For the year as a whole, because it takes time for approvals and things like that, we do see from the date of commissioning, we should be at an average utilization of around 40%-45% average for the year. By the year end, we should be touching about 60%-65% capacity utilization.
Got it. Just a follow-up. In Fenesta, if I understand rightly, added expenditure was not as high, say, same time last year or even a few years back. Even as a percentage of sales, just to see what kind of push are we doing in that segment?
Basically, the effort is to increase demand creation especially for the new product line of aluminum windows and also facades. That is advertising on one side and fixed costs on the other because we've put up the facades factory. The revenue is inching up slowly or picking up slowly, but it will take off in due course. The same is with the aluminum windows. UPVC has been a traditional product, and that continues. From the cost side, there will be benefits of the backward integration of PNV and in due course, benefits of the backward integration of extrusion. That will help our cost competitiveness also, and our supply chains will be much more smooth, which have been giving trouble for the last year. Once the supply chains are in our own control, the supply chain bottlenecks will also be out of the way.
Got it. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you.
Before we take the next question, a reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Ahmed Madha from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead.
Sir, good afternoon. As you know, we've been long-term holders. Can you hear us?
Yes. Yes, we can hear you.
Specifically, my question is about the announcement you all made in March to evaluate reorganizing of the businesses into agri, building materials, and the chemical businesses. It seems like a brilliant thing to do, and we'd like to congratulate you on the direction you're going. For us, it is still unclear. If you can help, subject, of course, to approvals that you all will seek, how is management thinking about people, capital, technology? What is the purpose of this? I know the purpose it says. The s hareholder value creation.
Sorry to interrupt, sir. We lost the audio. I would request you to please repeat.
I was saying that the shareholder value creation objective has to be achieved through management action. So we'd like to understand the actions that you have in mind in relation to people, technology, capital, go-to-market. How will separation of these businesses empower these businesses to compete better and make a meaningful impact and then eventually achieve shareholder returns?
Yeah. Ahmed, see, the key objective of, so if you see what we had mentioned in the release also, that what we're looking at is separating out the consumer-facing businesses, right? Because currently, we have two to three consumer-facing businesses on the agri side and Fenesta. The objective is to separate them because they require a very different mindset within the management as well rather than looking at it together.
That is point number one. Second is having different boards for these companies. And then these businesses, which are, I would say, evolving and have grown over the last couple of years, they get adequate attention and adequate expertise. And third-party or, I mean, when I say third-party, I mean more experts to look at the business and provide inputs. Right? The idea is that if I put it very simply, the child has grown up. Now it needs to fly on its own, right? And probably it'll grow better, both in terms of technology, both in terms of capital, because then it's open to take partnerships, open to form joint ventures, open to do larger acquisitions. It is a much wider new world for these entities to grow. I think that's the perspective with which we've thought about separating the entities.
The agri businesses will contain seeds, farm solutions, and fertilizer. Is that understanding correct?
No, not fertilizer because that's not a consumer-facing business. Yes, what we are exploring is from agri input side, both Bioseed and Farm Solutions. On this side, on building materials space, it's only Fenesta.
Okay. On the capital employed for each of these three companies, should we take the capital employed as a broad indicative number that you disclose in your accounts?
Yeah. The only difference is, yes, what you're saying is right. That's the capital employed in these businesses. If you look at agri businesses, the only difference is that these are closing capitals, which are always at their peak in March, given seasonality of the business. Their average capital employed is lower.
Fenesta is investing currently. They've acquired DNV after the close of the year, and they are investing substantially in backward integration in aluminum extrusion and in capacity enhancement. The capital employed would go up during the course of this year. It would then be followed by reuse in top line and bottom line in the quartering years.
Okay. On people, besides the people who are running these businesses, do you feel these businesses, now that they will be free to fly on their own, will need new leadership? Is that possible? Do you see the ability to align incentives of these leaders who come in as an important part of the objective?
Yeah. I think we are, as a top management team of all our SBUs and businesses, we have a very strong leadership position. As a group and as a culture, we have focused a lot on people because we do believe our job as top management is to get the right person for the right job at the right time. We have to build the bench strength below our CEOs and EDs, and we have to have an organization structure which does justice for the running, maintenance, and growth of the business.
Our objective is that the business heads who are running our businesses will very much be there. If we need to supplement somewhere, we'll do that. Though, frankly speaking, the supplement requirements would be fairly low, in my opinion, right now because we have strong leadership and strong business teams running each of these businesses.
Ahmed, just to add, actually, these businesses have been actually running virtual companies for many, many years. That's how we work in this organization. All the businesses work in virtual companies, so they have their strong
Okay. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you.
Yeah. That's helpful. Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Vivek Ramakrishnan from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Sir, congratulations on maintaining balance sheet strength to this growth phase. My questions are in terms of CapEx, how do you see the CapEx in terms of amount for this year and next year? And if you are planning to split the businesses, now the businesses provided on the other side, countercyclical stability, how would you view the balance sheets of each of the businesses going forward? Thank you.
See, each of the businesses has a strong balance sheet. Yes, there will be some businesses which are heavy on capital employed. The reasons for that are different. Sugar is heavy on capital employed primarily because of sugar inventory. Chemicals, on the other hand, is heavy on capital employed because of whatever CapEx we have undertaken in the recent past. Other businesses are not very heavy on capital. Really, we do not see any challenge on any of the businesses, whether currently or going forward. That is point number one. For the CapEx this year, the CapEx that we have announced till date, which should be about INR 500 crore-INR 600 crore of project CapEx that will be incurring in this financial year for the group as a whole, which is not very large given.
That is right. It is not. Yeah.
Looking at other opportunities also, which would be pursued and announced as they are taken up by the board.
Right. Okay. We expect that the kind of balance sheet maintenance would be one of the pivotal ways you look at growing your business.
Yes. We would like to maintain the balance between balance sheet strength and leverage and debt and EBITDA. We do not like to stretch ourselves for the sake of growth, and we would like to, if needed, stretch it out a little bit. We have managed to manage our balance sheet, solid balance sheet, through up cycles and down cycles as we have been seeing over the last four, five years.
Indeed, sir. Is there any guidance you would like to give on debt EBITDA since you mentioned the number?
We would like to maintain it at around 2.5x debt to EBITDA on a sustainable basis.
Okay. Great. Thank you so much, and wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next follow-up question is from the line of Nirav Jimudia from Anvil Wealth. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity again. If you can share in terms of for the chemical business, how we are placed in terms of the renewable power currently and how the scenario could look like over the next one or two years in terms of the mix between the captive and the renewables.
We have tied up 50+ MW of renewable power, and we are very much committed to this journey of sustainability and having a larger percentage of our energy coming from renewable sources. This is in Bharuch. We have also tied up 68 MW of renewable power in Kota, which will be spread across multiple of the consuming plants over there. In addition, we actually consume a significant percentage of biomass in our power plants, which is also green power. I think we are well on that journey, and we are continuously exploring new opportunities to further enhance our tie-up for renewables, which is wind, solar, power.
All right. Sir, from currently and over the next two years, could the mix be 20%-25% of our power could be coming from renewables, could be a good assumption to make?
See, currently, as a group, we are 36% of our energy is green. Going forward, we should be touching around 40%. Got it. On the expanded capacity.
Yes. Got it. The second question is on the chlorine side. Sir, last time when we have interacted over a call, you mentioned that 18% of our chlorine is getting consumed for value-added products, and 35%-40% is what we sell through the pipeline network. Given the kind of situation currently where most of the players in the industry want to have downstream products of chlorine and the newer players who are also expanding, their chlorine would be consumed mostly for their own downstream products like PVC and otherwise, could there be a situation going forward over the next two, three years that with the chlorine demand in the industry growing, these negative prices of chlorine could start moving on a positive side? Could there be a scenario building on your thoughts here? Yeah. Thank you.
I think directionally, what we are doing is we are trying to become more and more integrated, and that helps us build more robustness into the entire business and company and group. With that perspective, we have been adding chlorine downstream capacity. After our expansions are completed, between our own captive consumption and our pipeline customers in Bharuch, we will be close to 55% chlorine integrated along with our pipeline customers. They have also grown along with us as we have grown, and we really value that relationship. I think in terms of predicting the price, it is always hard to predict how the price will emerge in the years to come. We do expect, we do hope actually, that the chlorine price over time comes into the positive range, but we will have to see how it evolves.
Got it. Sir, this 55% what you mentioned, including the pipeline customers, out of this 55%, how much would be required internally once all these expansions are completed, let's say by Q1 of FY 2027? What could be the proportion of captive chlorine consumption within DCM?
See, one is captive also there. Two is to look at captive. Just adding to what Mr. Shriram mentioned, out of this 55 was the component where we think we're consuming captively. There's another component of hydrochloric acid because once you convert chlorine into hydrochloric acid, the salability improves. That improves my production for costing. If we add that, that's another about from current 18%, that adds to another 10%. We'll be at 28% captive. If we add pipeline to it, then another 30%-35% gets added. Now, going forward, we will be around 44% captive, including the HCL. Another 35% will be through pipeline.
Got it. Sir, just a last clarification. The HCL, what you mentioned, goes for our PVC production, right, internally?
No, it goes PVC and what we sell externally.
Okay. Okay. Got it. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ahmed Madha from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. On the Fenesta side, we had a weak year this year, and we understand there are a couple of reasons. One is increase in the fixed cost, and second is increase in the advertisement and marketing cost. Could you please explain, is the gross contribution margin the same compared to last year?
No, even the gross contribution margin will reduce, Ahmed, given the product mix. We have UPVC windows, aluminum windows. The share of aluminum windows has been increasing. Then there are doors, facades. The product mix also is changing. That also leads to some reduction, but that's not very significant right now. Going forward, that can also change, right? I think what is important is also going forward, as we see it, to look at the absolute amount of EBITDA because if the business is growing, it can't continue to grow at a 20% EBITDA.
Got it. Could you please comment on the competition? We understand this space is very competitive, and we have two divisions, retail and project, and in project business, there could be high competition. Is that the case we have been witnessing over the last year or so?
The competition has been always there, and yes, it will increase. Our countermeasures by backward integration of aluminum extrusion and of hardware are going to make us have a better cost position and better margin and better pricing power. It is going to result in a higher top line also.
Just to add, Ahmed, we are now focusing a lot on more innovative products in the same category. Our focus would be to keep introducing newer products, let's say same UPVC, aluminum, which will also be a way to keep us ahead.
What would be our broad market share, if you can comment on that? Secondly, what will be the current business mix between the retail business and the project business? That mix would be close to about 50/50. On market share, we should be in the whole window segment, we will be about 25%-30%.
Okay. Got it. I have another question.
Yeah. Sure. Sure. Definitely. Definitely.
I have another question on the chlorovinyl segment. The way we segment the chemicals business and vinyl business, we see there is slight change in the composition. If you look at vinyl business top line, as reported last year, is different for FY 2024 compared to this year. If you can explain a bit how are we classifying a few products in chemical and vinyl business? Secondly, on the same question, in terms of margins, if you could give some sort of a range so that we can understand what will be the margin for costing PVC business and for the balance derivatives and chemicals business. Yeah.
See, the reason for the change in numbers last year for vinyl, which you would have taken from our investor release, is what I'm assuming, is because earlier we were reporting one of our subsidiaries, which was into derivatives of PVC, which is the compounding business under our 100% subsidiary, Shriram Quality Limited. Because we're derivative of PVC, we thought it best to show it as part of vinyl segment. The turnover of that business is close to about INR 150 crore, INR 150-INR 200 crore, actually. That is the change. Their EBITDA margin would be in the range of around, I think, around 10%.
Okay. For the other derivatives business, including hydrogen peroxide, aluminum chloride, that bucket, what will be the margin change currently?
See, as we mentioned, it's a verbal there. There is complete integration, right? There are transfer pricing mechanisms. Giving a margin may not be, the individual margin may not be the right barometer. I think it's best to look at how the overall chemical business is faring because there are these transfer pricing mechanisms for each of the products.
Sure. Sure. On the sugar business, say current sugar price is INR 41,000- INR 42,000 a kg, is it fair to assume that for the full year, FY2026, our margins will be better than FY 2025? Obviously, it is subject to how the cane prices move and the recovery is moved for next season. Your preliminary assumption will be the margins will improve in current financial year?
Assumptions, yes. What happens, actually, we don't know.
Okay. I mean, fundamentally, what you're saying is right. That's how it should be. These markets don't work on fundamentals always.
Yeah. Fair. Fair. We'll see how it moves. On the CapEx side, from the balance projects which we have, what will be the CapEx amount roughly for FY 2026? Secondly, are there any timelines you have decided to enter the new business, epoxy and advanced material business?
For the total CapEx, because we have completed a large part of the CapEx last year, and the expenditure also has happened, I think for next year it should be in the range of INR 500 crore-INR 600 crore, what is committed. As we mentioned with the call, we are looking at more opportunities, and therefore this number may go up within this year itself. That is what we have right now, which is approved by the board. On the epoxy and advanced materials, I am coming to that. On epoxy and advanced materials, we have completed the land acquisition. One part is there where we've completed land acquisition. We are in talks with technology suppliers, right, for the technology. We should have some developments in the next one to two months.
Will the land parcel be very adjacent to a new caustic project, like the new plant which we bought last year? What will be the source of land acquisition?
The epoxy does not need a significant amount of land, but it's close to our current complex.
We have the environment clearances and everything in place. We are ready to move as soon as we get the final approval from the board.
Okay. Got it. What will be our guesstimate for the CapEx for the epoxy business?
What the board has approved is around INR 1,000 crore for 80 kilotons per annum capacity. Up to INR 1,000 crore. Okay. Up to INR 1,000 crore.
Got it. Perfect. Yeah. That's it from my side. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thanks . Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. A reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for your participation in our earnings conference call. Recognizing the ever-evolving and increasingly complex global economic landscape, organizations today must embed agility, innovation, customer centricity, and sustainability at their core to sustain growth and competitiveness. At DCM Shriram, we believe long-term success starts with our people and our values, which are integrity, agility, customer centricity, teamwork, openness, and newness.
These principles shape our culture, where we foster an engaged, collaborative workforce ready to innovate, adapt, and thrive. We actively invest in our teams through continuous learning and skill enhancement. We are leveraging digital advancements to improve our ways of working to better serve our customers. This approach ensures we remain adaptive and forward-looking, creating value and optimizing operations. Thank you very much once again. Goodbye.
Thank you. On behalf of DCM Shriram Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect.