Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the DCM Shriram Limited Q2 FY25 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Siddharth Rangnekar from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Rangnekar.
Thank you, Darwin. Good afternoon and welcome to DCM Shriram Limited's Quarter Two FY25 earnings conference call. Today we have with us Mr. Ajay Shriram, Chairman and Senior Managing Director, Mr. Vikram Shriram, Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Ajit Shriram, Joint Managing Director, and Mr. Amit Agarwal, Group CFO of the company. We shall commence with remarks from Mr. Ajay Shriram and Mr. Vikram Shriram.
Members of the audience will get an opportunity to post their queries to the management following these comments during the interactive question-and-answer session. Before we begin, please note that some of the statements made on today's call could be forward-looking in nature, and a note to that effect has been included in the conference call invitation that has been circulated earlier and is also available on the stock exchange websites. I would now like to invite Mr. Ajay Shriram to give us a brief overview. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Siddharth. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and a very warm welcome to all of you, and I hope you all had a good festive season. I shall commence with views on the strategic imperatives for our businesses, following which Vikram will share the financial perspective. The global landscape is currently marked by escalating geopolitical tensions and widespread instability. Since 2019, there has been a notable surge in trade barriers indicative of a growing trend towards protectionism. This shift, combined with efforts to mitigate risks, is promoting a significant restructuring of supply chains worldwide. India is in a sweet spot and stands poised to leverage emerging opportunities. India continues to maintain impressive growth rates while steadily improving its standing across various international rankings and indices. In today's dynamic business environment, operational agility has become a crucial strategic imperative.
Our strategic approach is designed to foster growth in our core operations through integration both upstream and downstream. We are consciously working towards having backward and forward integration as a strategy going forward. This strategy aims to bolster resilience, minimize risks, and secure competitive edge along with growth in an increasingly uncertain and competitive landscape. To this end, we have unveiled capital expenditure plans focused on two key areas. Firstly, the downstream forward integration in our chemical division, and secondly, upstream integration for aluminum extrusion in the Fenesta Building Systems division. Sustainability remains key for our operating processes and growth agenda. Resource conservation is a core objective for us, along with positively impacting the communities and environment in which we operate. Accordingly, we are further adding renewable energy to the tune of about 74 megawatts.
This strategic move demonstrates the company's commitment to reducing its carbon footprint and embracing cleaner energy sources. I will now turn the discussion on key industry dynamics across various businesses. First is chemicals. During the quarter, global demand for caustic remained balanced, and the international caustic prices were stable. However, towards the end of the quarter, the prices have increased, led by fears of supply constraints due to a cyclone in the U.S. and an increase in demand in China, led by fiscal stimulus. Pricing volatility is bound to persist given the volatile geopolitical position. India's caustic industry capacity is now around 6.2 million metric tons and is currently operating at a rate of around 75%. This is resulting in an oversupply in the market and therefore leading to a lower chlorine price and hence lower ECUs. India continues to be a net exporter of caustic soda.
The sea freight remains elevated, and this, coupled with the ongoing Red Sea situation, continues to impact global trade and exports from India. We commissioned our hydrogen peroxide plant in the last quarter. Our product is being well appreciated and accepted in the market, and we are now expecting a much speedier ramp-up. We are nearing 50% capacity utilization. We have also commissioned a flexi-feed caustic soda flaker plant that will give flexibility to optimize costs and increase exports. The ECH plant faced some pre-commissioning delays, which are being addressed by technology partners, and we are confident in commissioning the plant by Q4 financial year 2025. We have announced chlorine downstream projects of 100 tons per day aluminum chloride and 225 tons per day calcium chloride in Bharuch, with a Capex of INR 310 crore at a new site near our existing plant.
These projects will get commissioned by Q1 financial year 27 and will enable a chlorine sink of up to 225 tons per day. The marketing strategy for these products will involve tapping the export market, and business teams are already in talks for tie-ups for these products. Then, finally, global demand for PVC in the key economies continues to be sluggish given the underperforming housing sector driven by elevated interest rates. Domestic PVC demand has picked up and recorded 20% growth in H1. However, amid structural issues with the Chinese economy that is facing crippled local demand and surplus product availability, there is a sharp increase in low-priced PVC imports from Chinese suppliers that are being dumped into India. PVC imports account for approximately 70% of the total demand in India in H1 financial year 25.
Recently, we are again witnessing an increase in freight rates from China, which may positively impact prices in India. However, I'm happy to share that the Ministry of Commerce has recently recommended an interim anti-dumping duty on seven countries, including China. We now expect the Ministry of Finance to approve it in the next two to four weeks. With the end of the monsoon season, domestic demand for PVC is expected to improve with the consumption of construction activities and agricultural demand. Sugar and ethanol, global sugar supply and demand for sugar season 2023-24 is expected to be almost balanced with a surplus of one million metric tons. The Indian sugar season 2023-24 is expected to end with a stock of 8.4 million metric tons, with a production estimate of 32 million metric tons.
For the next season, the sugar production estimate is about 31 million metric tons, and demand is expected to be around 29.5 million metric tons. Prices are expected to remain range-bound for the financial year 2024-25 between INR 3,850 and INR 3,950 per quintal, which is not commensurate with the increase in the cost of production, owing to the increase in SAP and climatic conditions in the last season. Simultaneously, industry is pushing for an increase in MSP of sugar and pushing for export for the next season. On the ethanol front, the government has achieved 13.8% blending as of December 2024, with 57% ethanol derived from grains and balanced from sugarcane. Further, the government has also removed restrictions on ethanol production from cane juice and B-Heavy molasses. We have commenced crushing for the current sugar season.
The sugar expansion at the Loni unit and the CBG project at the Ajbapur unit are progressing as per schedule. Fenesta Building Systems. Fenesta continues to deliver growth supported by volume and value in both projects and the retail category. Growth would have been faster, but for the temporary sluggish market being faced by the building material industry. The business is investing into setting up newer revenue platforms and enhancing capabilities and capacities to accelerate future growth. The aluminum window sector has been experiencing robust double-digit growth. To capitalize on this trend, we are making an investment of INR 149 crore to establish an aluminum extrusion facility. The project is expected to be commissioned by Q4 FY26. By integrating this process into our operations, we aim to enhance customer experience by providing end-to-end solutions along with delivering reliable, high-quality, and innovative products.
This will improve our cost efficiencies too. Moving on, the agri-input businesses portfolio comprises of Shriram Farm Solutions, fertilizers, and the Bioseed business. Shriram Farm Solutions first, SFS has once again delivered double-digit top-line growth and continues to contribute significantly in overall operating profits of the company. This growth is driven by volumes across the business verticals, particularly research wheat seed. Abundant rainfall has ensured sufficient water availability, providing a favorable and optimistic foundation for the forthcoming rabi crop season. Our continued emphasis on innovation and product development, leading to unique offerings to the farmers, has been instrumental in re-energizing this business and will continue to be our key pillar for growth momentum for the business. Fertilizers, the urea business environment continues to be stable. The gas prices have inched up slightly.
The company has been making continuous efforts toward improvement in energy consumption, maximizing ECU production as well as controlling fixed costs. Bioseed, India operations continue its turnaround journey with the help of novel hybrids for key products that were introduced over the last few years. International operations have contributed well too. We have a robust pipeline of products, and we are expecting to grow the business going forward. I'll now request Vikram to take the conversation forward to cover the financials. Vikram.
Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and wishing you a very happy Diwali. I will now take you through the financial highlights of Q2 and H1 FY25. Net revenues for Q2 FY25 were at INR 2,957 crore versus INR 2,708 crore in Q2 FY24, an increase of 9% year-on-year driven by growth across businesses. Chemicals, SFS, and Bioseed have led the growth for the quarter. PBDIT for Q2 FY25 was at INR 2,235 crore versus INR 136 crore in Q2 FY24, an increase of 73% year-on-year. Chemicals, the business reported an increase in revenue of 19% year-on-year, led by caustic soda volumes that were up 16% on account of a new 850 TPD facility that was operationalized in May 2024. PBDIT increased 128%, owing to lower input prices, particularly energy prices and efficiencies, from the new 120 megawatt power plant.
Segment continues to see good demand for caustic. However, excess capacity in India is creating pressure on product prices of chlorine. There was positive impact.
So you are not audible? Vikram, so you are not audible. Ladies and gentlemen, please stay with us while we connect with the management.
Okay. Vikram Shriram here again. Unfortunately, the line dropped, so we had to reconnect. I'll restart my commentary of chemicals business. The business reported an increase in revenue of 19% year-on-year, led by caustic soda volumes that were up 16% on account of the new 850 TPD facility that was operationalized in May 2024. PBDIT increased 128%, owing to lower input prices, particularly energy prices and efficiencies, from the new 120 megawatt power plant. The segment continues to see good demand for caustic; however, excess capacity in India is creating pressure on product prices, especially chlorine. There was positive impact of about INR 20 crore on account of state government incentives received in relation to projects commissioned in financial year 2017.
Coming to final business, the business saw a decline in revenues by 8% year-on-year on account of lower volumes, mainly due to a planned maintenance shutdown in the current period. PVC and carbide prices for the quarter were in the range of plus minus 2% over last year. PBDIT improved over last year, led by lower power and carbon material costs. Sugar and ethanol. Sugar and ethanol revenues net of excise duty were higher by 3% year-on-year due to increase in prices of both sugar and ethanol. Domestic volumes and prices of sugar were higher by 6% and 3%, respectively. Volumes of ethanol were lower by 18%, owing to C-Heavy operations in the last crushing season. Prices of ethanol were higher by 10% year-on-year. PBDIT for the segment was at similar levels as earlier. Fenesta Building Systems.
Fenesta Building Systems revenue increased 6% year-on-year, led by increase in both prices and volumes across projects and retail segments. PBDIT for the quarter moderated by 6% due to higher fixed expenses for future growth, mainly due to setting up of new product platforms, higher marketing expenses, and enhancing manufacturing capacity. Shriram Farm Solutions. Shriram Farm Solutions revenues increased by 33% year-on-year, supported by volumes across all verticals, led by Research Wheat. Prices were higher in Research Wheat; however, there was a slight moderation in prices of other verticals. We expect Research Wheat to perform better than last year in this financial year. PBDIT for the quarter was higher by 64% on account of better margins in Research Wheat, despite higher marketing expenses focused on strengthening of the Shriram brand. Fertilizer revenues were higher by 5% year-on-year. PBDIT was also higher by 24%, led by increase in prices and volumes.
Outstanding fertilizer subsidy was INR 12 crore, as against negative INR 267 crore last year. Bioseed. The Bioseed segment saw a revenue increase of 24% year-on-year, and PBDIT was almost 6 times higher. The improvement is led by domestic business on account of higher volumes and prices in corn and hybrid paddy. Coming to the highlights of H1 FY25. For the half-year ended 30 September 2024, revenues net of excise was at INR 5,834 crore, an increase of 6% year-on-year. This was driven by all the business segments except fertilizer, in which there was a planned maintenance shutdown in the current period. SFS and chloro-vinyl segments revenue increased by 25% and 13%, respectively, largely driven by volumes.
PBDIT came in at INR 509 crore, an increase of 59% year-on-year, largely led by chloro-vinyl segment that saw its PBDIT increase by 218% on account of higher margins due to lower carbon material costs, energy prices, and better efficiencies. The company's net debt is at INR 302 crore as of 30 September 2024, as against negative INR 203 crore as of September 30, 2023, and INR 1,434 crore as of March 31, 2024. The year-on-year increase was because of capital expenditure over the last one year and higher sugar inventory. Over March 2024, the decline is primarily because of reduction in sugar inventory as well as reduction in urea subsidy. Return on capital employed for September 2024 came in slightly lower at 15% as compared to 18.5% for September 2023, since CapEx incurred on the projects will start yielding returns in the forthcoming quarter.
The board has announced an excellent dividend of 100%, amounting to INR 31.19 crore. Major investments in the chemical segment are on hand , and the strong balance sheet and cash flows. We are evaluating opportunities and value chains around our corner. We look forward to a healthy and sustainable growth going forward. That concludes my opening remarks, and I would request the moderator to please open the forum for the Q&A session. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants, you are requested to please use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Nirav Jimudia from Anvil Share & Stock Broking . Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Good afternoon, and thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I have two, three questions on the chemical side. So, sir, when I see your presentation, particularly in terms of the production of caustic, I think we have clocked something around 1920 TPD of production this quarter. So if we do some math and do the calculation, I think our chlorine production was close to 1,700 TPD. So if you can help us explain how much we have consumed internally for our SBP, aluminum chloride plant, how much was the sales to the pipeline customers, and how much we have sold in the spot market.
Sir, if you can also share the market of chlorine within our area of operations, predominantly Jhagadia, because I was doing some sort of readings, and my understanding suggests that the market of chlorine within the Jhagadia region is close to 1,100 TPD of chlorine. If you can share your thoughts, that would be very helpful.
Yeah, thanks, Nirav. One, in terms of our caustic consumption, see, we have two plants, one in Bharuch, Jhagadia, and the other is in Kota. Put together, our caustic consumption is close to about 18%, and through pipeline would be another 35-40%. Okay. Now, in terms of market in Jhagadia, I don't have the number in terms of size of the market there right now, but what I understand is that the market is growing, given that the industries around us, whether it's RIL, KLJ, and others, they are also expanding, and we see the market growing.
All right. Sir, in terms of the integration project, what we have announced, I think that would further consume something close to around 235 TPD of chlorine. So eventually, then we will have or be in operating at close to 90% utilization. What sort of integration from current level of 18% of chlorine could go up to? Any thoughts?
Yeah, so that should go up from 18% to close to 32%.
On the.
Pardon me?
On the 90% utilization, assuming we continue to operate our plant at 90%.
True. So see, the major delta will come in Bharuch business.
Correct.
Will remain more or less the same. So therefore, overall, as a chemical business, from 18%, we'll go up to 32%. And pipeline, you can add another 35-40%. So more or less, for the business as a whole, we will have 65% vertical integration of supply, and the rest we are comfortable that we can supply in the market.
Correct. And, sir, when we speak of selling our chlorine to the pipeline customers, how does the pricing work there? Because in the spot market, I think prices fluctuate a lot, and it a lot depends upon the production of caustic also. So when we sell to the pipeline customers, how the contract, so are there any fixed price contracts, or are there a formula-based pricing, which is there? And because of that, the volatility in the chlorine prices, something like insulate us from sales to our pipeline customers?
So, Nirav, it's more about giving exit to chlorine. I don't think it is so much about prices. And the contracts are of all kinds, but mostly they are on spot basis.
Correct. Got it. Got it. The second question is, in the presentation, you have mentioned that though the capacities in India were increased and there were pressures on the realizations, but at the fag end of the quarter, I think there were some spikes in the prices of caustic. So just wanted to understand from you, in between the quarters, let's say Q1 and Q2, the prices of caustic imported to India was close to $470, but our realizations have fallen. So our ECU has fallen from, let's say, 28 to close to 25.9 this quarter. So it is more related to the chlorine prices and whether the increase in the prices in the international market very recently, what you have evaluated in the presentation. Similarly, do we have taken the price hikes also in the domestic market following the increases in the international market?
One, I think the biggest reason why the prices are not following the international market as an issue is because the chlorine.
Correct.
Chlorine, if I remember correctly, Q1 was about 4,000 negative, and in Q2, it was about 7,000 negative. Currently, it is about 9,000 negative.
Okay.
Right? And the other thing is there's always a lag in terms of international prices, and that international prices went up only by September. September second half is when we saw prices going up. Ballpark, they have gone up by about $70 over the last one and a half months. And there's always a lag in terms of getting reflected in the numbers because there are always supply contracts for one to two months, which are fixed. So therefore, they have impact.
Correct. But, sir, safe to assume that how much so the extent to which the chlorine has gone negative from, let's say, minus seven to minus nine, that sort of price increases we have taken in order to maintain our ECU or slightly improve that?
So we do see our ECUs to be better in Q3.
Okay. Got it. Got it. And, sir, last bit from my side. So when I was just going through our annual report, what we have clocked in terms of PBDIT for particularly the chemical business was close to INR 190 crores. So is it safe to assume that last year was because of the pressure on the ECU and the other cost, was it more from the value-added products like hydrogen and aluminum chloride and SBP and less from the caustic chlorine business?
See, from last year's perspective, what you're saying is right. But from this year's perspective, hydrogen will continue to add value. It is the cost side where there is a significant reduction in cost. And therefore, caustic also is going to be profitable. On top of it, there are more volumes.
Correct. Thank you so much, sir, for answering the questions. I have a few more, but I'll join back in the queue. All the best.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask questions, you may please press star and one. The next question comes from the line of Janam Ghelani from Swan Investments. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So my first question.
Sorry to interrupt, Janam, but your audio is not very clear and loud enough.
Hi, sir. Can you hear me now?
Yes, this is much better. Please go ahead, sir.
Thanks for the opportunity. So, sir, my first question is on the anti-dumping duty. So, sir, the anti-dumping duty is with the Ministry of Finance. So if it is approved, how much benefit can we see in our profitability on the PVC segment?
You know, the anti-dumping duty ranges country to country the way the government has approved or the Ministry of Commerce has approved. One second. I'll give you the figure, actually. See, the anti-dumping duty ranges in US, Thailand, Taiwan, Korea, Japan, Indonesia, and China from the range of about $51 in Korea to China between $82 and $125, so China would be an average, I would say, about $100, so it is ranging between this level. The highest band is in China. Second is in US, $64-$104. So I think with all these coming in now with the Ministry of Finance, and this was just issued on the 30th of October, so it is very early right now, so it's gone to the Ministry of Finance, and the industry is pursuing it with the Ministry of Finance.
Okay, sir. Since the ECH plant would be commissioning in quarter four, we would need approvals from the customers. How long would the approval process be for the same?
The approval process ranges between, for domestic consumers, it will be anywhere between one to two months. For overseas customers, it is a little longer. So it depends on application to application, but that's the rough range here.
Okay, sir. Thank you. That's it from my side.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parth Vasani , an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is more related to CPVC resin. I just wanted to know, is there any plan to make that special PVC which is required to make CPVC resin, which I believe most of the companies import?
No. We actually have not talked about making CPVC resin in our company.
Okay. And so you are not planning to enter into the CPVC resin manufacturing?
No. No.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Co. Please go ahead.
Namaskar, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. First, a small clarification, sir. You mentioned that the negative for the second quarter was 5,000, and currently, it is trending at 9,000. Is this what you alluded to?
Chlorine. Chlorine is a negative pricing, yes.
Okay. So end of September, the negative has increased significantly. So what factors have led to this? And, sir, will this lead to lower utilization levels for caustic?
So, Saket, there is another way around. One, this negative increase has happened more recently. 9,000, I was giving you the number as on date. For the quarter ending, I mean, quarter ending September, which is second quarter, it was close to about 6,700, to be precise, average negative. And to answer your point that in fact, caustic utilization, it is reversed. The more chlorine today, what's happening, what is leading to lower prices is that more chlorine is being produced. As new capacities have come up, prices are better for caustic. Hence, people are improving, increasing the capacity utilization, leading to more chlorine and therefore lower prices for chlorine.
Okay. And for the optics of chlorine, sir, I think you did alluded to our steps we are taking for increasing the portfolio of value-added products. Where are we, sir, in terms of the current captive use of chlorine and the external sales, and what should be the number, say, for H2 and next financial year?
So if I look at captive consumption, including pipeline for the business as a whole located in Bharuch as well as Kota, I'm at about 48%, including pipeline. And going forward, once these capacities come up, which is ECH, calcium chloride, and enhanced aluminum chloride, then I should be about 65%-70%, including pipeline.
Sir, we have also heard about Reliance coming up with a big PVC complex. They made this announcement sometime in the AGM in the month of August. So what should, sir, how should the dynamics of industry going to change with this huge 1.5 million ton PVC complex see the light of day? What's the thought process, and how are caustic players aligned to this huge PVC and also the PVC market itself? Your thought on the same, sir.
Your question is on caustic or PVC?
Both, sir.
Both. See, on caustic, the way we understand is that Reliance as well as KLJ, both are coming up with their caustic project, largely to feed the chlorine into their PVC. Now, both of these projects will be in the coastal regions. And looking at the global demand, which is about 106 million tons and growing at about 2%, we expect that the caustic soda that they are going to manufacture will largely be for the export markets. So that is point number one on caustic. It may cause some interim disruption domestically, but its intent, what it looks like. As far as PVC is concerned, see, the total domestic market size in PVC is about 4 million tons. And today, what we manufacture is only about 1.4 million tons. So there's a huge gap.
They, I think, if I'm not wrong, are coming up with about 225,000 tons as a capacity, which is only a partial capacity. So we don't see any stress coming on PVC. In any case, we are based out of north, and these two plants are coming up in western region. So we don't see any challenge as far as PVC is concerned. For caustic as a whole, there are issues with demand globally also. To account for the problem with Europe.
Yes, with demand.
Okay, sir.
So PVC in India itself, as I mentioned, there's a big gap on demand and supply, and on top of that, it's growing at about 10%-11%.
Right, sir. And for caustic? Caustic globally, sir?
Yes.
Yes. Caustic product globally, sir, we find demand restrictions, especially for the European economy, wherein the big players have also mothballed their capacity. That was my thought. Am I correct in that thought process? That there is a.
See, there are two things happening here. One, Europe, yes, they are closing down capacities because of their overall cost structure. And they are probably looking at more value-added. That's an opportunity for India to export. And other thing is globally, our demand is increasing. One example is new paper capacities, pulping capacities coming up in South America. In India itself, the aluminum capacity is increasing from about 4.1 million tons to about 6 million tons. So I think there is demand getting created. But yet, it's only a matter of time when this new capacity in India gets absorbed.
And lastly, on the P&L part, sir, we find that the power and fuel cost for the quarter is up significantly to INR 428 crore if we take the Q1Q increase from INR 373 crore to INR 428 crore. If you could just explain the key reason. And I think so we have also taken a maintenance shutdown. So what is the cost that we have incurred, and what is the update on the realignment of the capacity post-shutdown?
Yeah. So now we have taken a maintenance shutdown in the chloro-vinyl business. So all that is back on track. We are operating at near 100% capacity. And increase in the cost of power and fuel is primarily led by volumes.
And sir, the benefit for our power plant, yes, sir. Please, you were telling me.
Please carry on.
Sir. And, sir, the benefits of the new power plant Kota are now we're accruing the benefit of the same completely?
The new power plant is at Bharuch, and yes, we started accruing the benefits.
What was the annual saving we can derive from the same?
I think it's reasonable. I would say I don't have the number right away, but it is something which we are happy, and it's closer to what we had targeted as a benefit.
Right. And, sir, what is the thought process of the outlook to the bioethanol story from us? How are we going to pursue the opportunity if we just throw some more light on this?
So I think on sugar, see, bioethanol is very futuristic right now, right? We are also evaluating where these technologies are because these technologies themselves are not very mature. The market is not very mature. And therefore, they, in fact, are very expensive fuels. So we'll keep a watch. But yes, we are looking at how best we can make sugar as an ecosystem, right, where there are multiple products. But it all will depend on how the technologies mature.
Okay. So as of now, what are our?
We request you to please rejoin the queue for follow-up questions. Thank you. Participants, if you wish to ask questions, you may please press star and one on your touch-tone telephones. The next question comes from the line of Phalguni Dutta from Mansarovar Financials . Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. I just had one question. That's on sugar. What is the cost of sugar production for the season that just ended in September? If you can tell me.
Phalguni, our cost of production was close to about INR 3,600.
And this? 36. 3,600.
36.
Yeah. Yeah. So, sir, does this include interest and depreciation also?
Yes.
Okay, and is it possible to say, "Tell me the number before interest, after depreciation, but before interest," if it's readily available?
Phalguni, I won't have that number right away.
Okay. Never mind, sir. Thank you. That's all from my side. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Surbhi from NV Alpha . Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. So I wanted to know more about Shriram Farm Solutions. I have been seeing that we consistently do 17%-19% margins in the last couple of years. So what exactly is the hero product? Is it the crop protection? Is it the soluble fertilizer? And also, what is the capital employed in this business? Should we take the Bioseed plus the fertilizers as the real capital employed?
No. I think Shriram Farm Solutions actually have three verticals. One is the business of seeds, where they have hybrid seeds and they've got research wheat and other products. Second, they've got crop care chemicals, which is a vertical, subvertical within SFS. And third is where they have plant nutrients, which is the third vertical. So they are focusing on all three. And there is a focus research going on in all these areas to try to get products which are unique, products which are effective with the crops, products which the farmers want to buy. So the focus is very strong over there. We don't really the manufacturing we have is for specialty nutrients, etc., at Kota, which is not that large. So I don't know. I'm unable to tell you how much money is involved there. But the working capital requirement in the business is not too much.
Right.
It's a little bit. Yeah, it's quite small. It's not really large at all, and SFS is a separate vertical in our group. Bioseed is a separate vertical in our group, and they both have their own management teams. They both have their independent P&Ls, and they manage the business independently and manage their own cash flows independently.
So SFS, is it fair to assume that it is only 5% C business? So with the.
Sorry to interrupt, Surbhi, but your line keeps breaking up in between.
Am I audible?
No, not really. You're not audible still. Would you please move to an area with better network?
Yes, sir. I just is it? Hello?
Hello. Yes, please go ahead.
Yeah, please, please, please go ahead.
I just wanted to know if you are consistently doing SFS, and also, can you say what season would be the best quarter for?
We are still not clear. We are not able to hear you clearly. Maybe I request that you reconnect with us on this conference.
Is this better?
This is better. Please go ahead.
Yeah. What kind of ROCs do we make in the SFS business? And also, would like to know Q3 is seasonally the best quarter for SFS, correct?
Could you kindly repeat the question? Because there was a little disruption in the Q3.
Could you kindly repeat the question? Q3 would be the best quarter for the SFS, the Shriram Farm Solutions business, correct? And also the ROCs for this business?
Yeah, so one, yes, Q3 will be the best quarter for this business.
With resales?
Because of resales. Yeah. Because of Research Wheat, that's the most profitable business in Farm Solutions. So I think that is one reason. And on your point of the ROC, see, given that their capital employed is negligible and their EBIT will be in excess of 200 crore, so it's like a normal number. So yeah, it's very high.
Got it. And just last question. Within seeds, nutrients, what is the top-selling product within the SFS segment?
Seeds, Research Wheat. Yeah. Research Wheat in the seed segment. But I think your question is also on the plant nutrition. Is it?
No. So overall, because I see that in the footnote, it's written plant nutrients, water solubles, and seeds. So which of that is the higher contributor amongst the three?
Seeds. Seeds.
Got it. Got it. Okay. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. To ask a question, ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one. We have a follow-up question from the line of Nirav Jimudia from Anvil Share & Stock Broking . Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity, sir. So one question on the urea side. So when I see the numbers, I think our EBITDA per ton is close to around INR 2,000-INR 2,100. Just wanted to understand from you, are the numbers lower just because the fixed cost absorption or the compensation from the government has not been revised from last so many years? And because of that, there is some under-recovery so far as the fixed cost compensation is concerned? Or our energy consumption, Gcal per metric ton, is higher, and because of that, we have been not able to materially improve our EBITDA per metric ton in the urea side?
See, Nirav, I think we need to understand that our four focus businesses are chemicals, sugar, farm solutions, and Fenesta. Farm solutions, Fenesta are the consumer-facing businesses. These are the four businesses that define the future of the organization. Now, in terms of fertilizer, I think it's performing reasonably well. Last year, if you see, the EBITDA was the EBIT was about INR 53 crore. On almost capital employed was not very high given the subsidy situation resolved. We feel it has a ROCE of close to about 60%-70%. That's very reasonable. Yes, our fixed costs are a little higher given their size, but our efficiencies are reasonably good. Overall, fertilizer and the manufacturing urea, it's in a pretty good shape.
Correct. Correct. And so second question is, given the production on the chemicals, given the production of close to 19-20 TPD of caustic soda this quarter, if you can share the mix of power between renewables, captive, how is the mix? And let's say when we will ramp up our production, how this mix would look like?
One, our production was close to about, I think at Bharuch, it was close to about 1,400 tons per day. And at Kota, it was close to about 500 tons per day. Right? So that's about 1,900 tons per day ballpark for the quarter. Now, coming to renewable, see, out of the total power requirement currently, our total power requirement is close to about anywhere between 125 to 150 megawatt at Bharuch. So out of that, about 25 megawatt on an average basis is coming from renewable energy.
Okay. And rest is from captive?
The rest is from captive, yes.
Kota entirely?
My contract is about 25 megawatt. I mean, peak is about 44-45 megawatt. Average is 25. So that will remain.
Correct.
We are just adding another 6.6 megawatts, which will start coming from next quarter. So, peak, we'll have in Bharuch, we'll have about 50 megawatts in Kota and, in Kota, in another year, year and a half time, we will add another 68 megawatts peak.
Got it. But entirely, so currently, Kota is entirely on coal-based captive plant?
Yes.
So the only thing is we are also using almost 15%-20% biomass there. So to that extent, we are using green fuel. All right. And how the thing would look like when we keep on ramping up our volumes of caustic soda?
So we are quite focused on seeing that how do we improve our green footprint. As of now, we don't plan to increase our capacity. There will be ramp-up happening at Bharuch from, let's say, currently we are at about 1,400 to 300 tons, and we'll go up to about 2,200 tons. So that will largely be met by captive sources. And there also, what we are looking at is the options of increasing our biomass. So our boilers are capable of taking 30%-40% biomass, especially the new boiler. So to that extent, we would like to reduce the carbon footprint.
Got it. So last two clarifications. So one on the Flaker plant of 600 TPD, has it started operating?
Out of the total plant expansion of 600 tons per day, 300 tons per day has started operating.
Got it. Got it. So that would help our exports possibly in order to improve our utilization, right?
Yeah. That's what the chairman mentioned in his opening.
Correct. Correct. And the last clarification is on the PVC plant at Kota. So there possibly we may be converting chlorine to HCl for our PVC or chlorine directly goes to the PVC plant?
We convert chlorine into HCl. Then HCl goes into PVC.
Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vignesh Iyer from Sequent Investments. Please go ahead. Vignesh Iyer, the line for you has been unmuted. You may proceed with your question.
Hello. I'm audible?
Yes. Yes. We can hear you.
Hi. Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. So just one clarity that I needed. Again, on the power side of it, so if I understand it right, you are spending 76 crores to increase your peak capacity from 44 megawatt to 68 megawatt. That is the addition of 24 megawatts, right?
No. No. Let me just clarify here. We are investing close to about INR 73-74 crore. That is, we are doing a new tower for our Kota facility where we are tying up 68 megawatts.
Okay. That is about over and above the 44 megawatt already that you have in.
Exactly. Exactly. That is over and above. See, 44 megawatts is at our Bharuch facility, which is nearby.
Right. Yeah. Okay. And what would be, so if I understand the average, you've done around 25 megawatts in your Bharuch facility. What would be the average that utilization possible out of the 68 megawatts?
So just to add here, one in Bharuch, we are currently at 25. We will go up by about 2-3 megawatt because we have tied up another 6.6 megawatt in Bharuch. So that is.
Okay. Money there.
So there we are spending close to about INR 3 crores as our equity participation. Now, out of this 68 megawatt, I think it is about 32-33 megawatt average.
Got it. Got it. Got it. Yeah. That's the clarity I needed. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for your participation in our earnings conference call. Our growth strategy reflects our commitment to adopting and thriving in a complex global market while strengthening our core business capabilities and the value chain. Sustainability remains the cornerstone of our business philosophy, reflecting our unwavering commitment to environmental stewardship and social responsibility. Thank you very much once again. Goodbye.
Thank you. On behalf of DCM Shriram Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.