Chief Business Officer and Group Executive Director. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on a touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vivek Anand. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah, thank you. Good evening, and welcome to DLF Limited Quarter 3 Financial Year 2024 earnings webcast. Thank you for joining us today. We are happy to announce that our business continues to deliver a consistent and strong performance across all parameters. I'll start with financial highlights for Quarter 3 Financial Year 2024, DLF Limited consolidated results. Consolidated revenue stood at INR 1,644 crores. Gross margin at 56%. EBITDA at INR 633 crores. Net profit at INR 649 crores, reflecting year-on-year growth of 26%. Healthy surplus cash generation from operations at INR 1,108 crores. We recorded our highest quarterly sales booking of INR 9,047 crores, backed by multiple launches during the quarter. We launched three new products of 5 million+ sq ft during the quarter across multiple segments.
The launches during the quarter include DLF Privana South, Gurugram, a luxury high-rise development, Central 67, Gurugram, a shop cum office plotted development, and The Valley Orchard, Panchkula, low-rise independent floors. We witnessed healthy demand momentum across all these products, and both projects in Gurugram were completely sold out, within a record time. With this strong performance, the new sales booking for the nine-month period stood at INR 13,316 crores, and hence will exceed our full year sales guidance. We would like to highlight that with this performance, we have broadly achieved our guidance on new product launches that we had given three years back, along with an upside in sales potential due to value enhancement across the products. The sustained demand momentum across all segment continues to be encouraging.
Consequently, we have identified a fresh pipeline of new products of approximately 32 million sq ft, with the sales potential of approximately INR 79,000 crore, which is more than double of what we have delivered during the last three to four years, and is in line with our plans of scaling up the business. We expect to launch these products over the next three to four years. The key launch that we are working on for the next 12-15 months are products in Gurugram, Chennai, Goa, and the first phase of our Mumbai project. Collections continued to be at record levels, resulting in record cash flow generation during the quarter. Consequently, our net cash position at the end of the quarter improved further to INR 1,246 crores.
Further, the Board, in line with our stated strategy to consolidate the rental business, has approved transfer of DLF Center, a marquee asset in Delhi, to DCCDL, at an aggregate consideration of INR 825 crores ±5%. This transaction will be subject to due diligence, documentation and requisite approval from the shareholders. I'll now move to the financial highlights for Quarter 3 Financial Year 2024, DLF Cyber City Developers Limited, consolidated. Rental income grew at INR 2,089 crores, year-on-year growth of 9%. Consolidated revenue of INR 1,476 crores, reflecting an 8% year-on-year growth. EBITDA at INR 1,126 crores, year-on-year growth of 6%. PAT at INR 434 crores, reflecting a year-on-year growth of 21%.
The credit rating for DCCDL was upgraded to ICRA A A +/S table during the quarter, vindicating the inherent strength and quality of our rental portfolio. Our non-SEZ segment continues to operate at healthy occupancy level of 97%. Our new office development across Gurugram and Chennai continue to garner strong interest from large occupiers, consequently, have achieved a pre-leasing of approximately 91%. The government decision for the amendment in the SEZ regulation, allowing floor-wise denotification, should lead recovery in the SEZ segment, too. We expect normalcy to return in occupancy levels in this segment over the next few quarters. Our retail business continues to deliver strong growth, and hence we continue to remain focused on increasing our retail portfolio across multiple geographies.
We remain committed to our goals of delivering consistent and profitable growth, which is well supported by the strong performance in our residential business, healthy of new products, quality asset in the growing rental portfolio, backed by a healthy balance sheet and supportive market dynamics. With this, I'll end, and we can now open the floor for the Q&A session. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question- and- answer session. To ask a question, please click on the Q&A tab on the panel and click on the Raise Hand button. The operator will announce your name when it is your turn to ask a question. Please accept the prompt on your screen and unmute your microphone while proceeding with your question. We will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Pritesh Sheth from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. So first question is on, you know, launches. Good to see, you know, a very strong pipeline now, for next couple of years. You have already mentioned about the projects in Gurugram, Chennai, Goa, first phase of Mumbai. Can you elaborate or quantify more on, you know, the size of these launches, that are expected next year? And what are the key additions in terms of projects beyond FY 2025 that you have mentioned?
Okay. So, I'll hand over to Aakash, really, for elaborating. But on an overall basis, the key projects that we are, you know, ready for launch now is clearly, A, the next phase, you know, and hopefully subsequent phases of our immensely successful launch in Privana. There would be a luxury project coming up on the Golf Course Road in DLF 5, for sure. We have a launch lined up in Chennai of a luxury project, and one lined up in Goa. We will have the first phase of our Mumbai launch next year, and we'll have a smaller launch in Panchkula. Aakash, you want to, you know, further talk about this.
So, the super luxury project in, on the Golf Course Road will be, about 450 odd apartments. That will be, sometime in, in, after the first quarter. Then there is the Privana, as we were just talking about. Privana 2 is another 800-odd apartments. Privana West of 1,100. Then, this, Chennai is going to be followed, average size of apartments about, about 2,400 sq ft-2,800 sq ft. And then, there is going to be Mumbai. The Panchkula is going to be another small development, but that will be size of about, say, INR 500-odd crore, floors and some commercial.
So, that's what we have right now. And, in terms of value, we had earlier mentioned also, there is tremendous potential both from the point of view of luxury and super luxury, across the board, across geographies. And in order of launches, we are starting with Gurgaon, and taking... I mean, after these two launches here, we will move to Mumbai and Chennai.
Got it. So a full 3 million sq ft, which was expected, you know, this year in DLF 5, is now happening next year, FY 2025, is it?
Yes, please.
Mumbai would be 1 million sq ft that we have earlier planned. That would be the first phase.
Yes, please. Yes.
Okay. Okay, got it. I'll, I'll, you know, connect with Kuldeep separately for, the details. So thanks for that. In terms of, you know, margin expectations now, considering, you know, we have a, a big la-- we had a big launch with a, you know, very healthy pricing of INR 18,000, how should our blended margin, you know, should, I mean, track, you know, going ahead, considering, you know, we have been doing a lot in terms of, pricing now? So that's, that's my question on margins.
I think obviously the margins will be driven by individual launches. As an example, the DLF 5 launch will obviously have the highest margin among everything. Overall, I think we should be ballpark in the pivot of 45%-50% on an overall margin for new launches.
Okay. That should be the corporate margins, and not the project level margins, right? I mean, that should be how blended the margins will look like- in the P&L once these projects are recognized.
Exactly. Exactly, because you may, you will unfortunately still see a lag between the time that these are launched and until the time that these are recognized because of the accounting policy issues. But most of these projects should translate into that sort of margin. Yeah.
Sure. Got it. And just one last, you know, I mean, these things are really looking very good in terms of size of the, you know, sales that is happening, INR 7,000 crore- INR 8,000 crore getting sold out within, you know, three days odd. Are you at all, you know, worried, with how things are picking up, you know, so fast? And specifically, you know, obviously, you would have also known a few of the Arbour units that were sold out, that are again coming back to market, at a premium kind of pricing, so investors are making good money. But, you know, should we—should one be concerned, at all about, you know, these things, from the demand perspective?
See, I'll tell you what's happening with the demand. I, I've been saying this since the Grove time. What is happening today is that real estate, the residential real estate, has become a priority spend. It is no more, no more, you know. It is not something that people earlier used to procrastinate. The young generation used to, you know, would prefer to live on rentals than actually buy. I am seeing a major shift from 30-year onwards of this segment, which is now coming into the actual purchase of residential properties. Also, post COVID, people want better homes, better connectivity, larger homes, more spacious homes, and, you know, closer to nature, and so on and so forth.
So what I'm seeing right now, in fact, what you just mentioned about the Arbour, we've got about 1,150 odd units in Arbour. There will always be, in any point in time that you see in projects all over the world you will see, there will always be about 5%-10% that will be up for trade every year. That's not an alarming situation at all. In fact, it's a very healthy situation with the kind of premium that the second and third sales are generating. That further shows robustness in the demand and the market. As far as your point about, you know, where the demand is coming from, I am, you know, I categorized this earlier also during our press briefings.
So I am seeing, I wouldn't call it an influx, but I am seeing a very favorable demand from the NRIs. I credit this to the government's outreach, you know, led by the Honorable Prime Minister himself, with the Indian diaspora all over the world. So there is this nostalgia or a certain piece of the Indian pie that they now want to take. And what happened in the previous decade, I feel that because of unscrupulous, you know, elements coming into it, delayed constructions, foreign exchange issues, and also the NRIs had burnt their fingers and didn't want to venture into an Indian real estate market. So everybody else benefited. Today, I am seeing that happening. We worked on the NRI markets over the last two years extensively, all over the world.
We find, we've met, we've presented. So what you are seeing is not just a by the way, kind of a thing. Yes, definitely, any tailwind is very welcome. But we have established our price points and our projects in various geographies. If you see across over the last, you know, I'd say at least three years, where definitely the tailwind is helping us. But I think also the brand is very strong, and there's a certain commitment that we make to the customers, and the customers appreciate it. So I think all... If you look at it from that point of view, there is a good, a very robust demand that I see today. And these are people who want.
And also one more important point I'd like to raise here, these are not speculators or investors. These are people who are wanting to move into better and bigger homes, and they want this to happen. So if you see it today, I can safely say I have about 80/20 ratio. 80% is retail and people who are actual owners, and 20% may be these investors or otherwise. That's what the market is today. I can speak for DLF, so that's what I'm saying.
No, no, got it. That's, that's very helpful. So that's it from my side. I have a few more questions, but I'll jump back in queue. And all the best to Vivek for his, you know, new role.
Thank you. Thanks, Pritesh.
Yes.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Saurabh Kumar from JPMorgan. Please go ahead. Mr. Saurabh, your line has been unmuted. Please go ahead with your question. Mr. Saurabh Kumar from JPMorgan, we have unmuted your line. I would request you to unmute your line from your side, and you can go ahead with your question.
Saurabh, we can't hear you.
May I request the management members, we move to the next question?
Yes, we can. Saurabh can come back later. We can move to the next question.
Yes. And next question is from the line of Abhinav Sinha from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Hi. Sir, congratulations on strong numbers. A couple of things I wanted to, you know, check on slide 12 and 13, basically the development potential versus launch pipeline. So on the luxury side, you know, you seem to have two types of products, right? So in FY 2025, ASP is closer to INR 50,000, and then it's like INR 30,000 in FY 2025. So, you know, how does this correspond with the DLF 5 land bank or, you know, some other product here? So that's question one. And secondly, you know, also similarly in New Gurgaon, if you can help us explain, you know, is the inventory now almost all the Privana type in terms of ASP, north of INR 15,000? Thank you.
So on the first one, you are right, the sale in 2024, 2025 is the DLF 5. The sale in the subsequent year, which is closer to ASP of INR 30,000 or INR 28,000, is actually within DLF City, but not in DLF 5. We have two or three, you know, developments, including some next round of City Floors in DLF phases I - IV. And those typically, I think this is the fair price for those. I mean, internally, you know, anything sort of north of mid-20s we classify as luxury. And hence, you know, I think that's the price difference you see between 2024, 2025 and the year after. On New Gurgaon, clearly, Privana has set a new benchmark for sure, and I think there are a lot of sectors. A, we have about 160 odd acres in Privana itself.
...And then there are contiguous sectors ahead, you know, which also, you know, hopefully should sort of, I mean, gradually dovetail into an ecosystem. There is a New Gurgaon on the opposite side of the highway as well, which possibly could clear at a slightly lower price or may take slightly longer to come up to the same levels. But I think clearly, you know, New Gurgaon is now definitely an early to mid-teens product, even under all circumstances. And the Privana ecosystem is clearly debuted at late 2018, and hopefully should keep on strengthening from there.
Excellent, sir. And, similarly, I mean, just one small doubt on the DLF 5, where we say, you know, we have got 24 million sq ft. Now, after, after all of these launches are done, I believe we'll still have, like, a lot here, right? I mean, 20 million more to go, given the TOD upsides and all. Is that fair?
Yeah. So you are right that DLF 5 has about 20 or 20+ million of existing pipeline, and then the TOD pipeline, etc., will come in. So, I mean, even at the sort of a very aggressive pace of 1 million-1.5 million per year, I think the DLF 5 has a very deep pipeline. You're right.
Great. And so just lastly, and many more questions, but, you know, I will come later, maybe. On the acquisition that you have announced, just, you know, like half an hour back, can you demystify it a bit? You know, which land is this, and, you know, w hen can we actually see the transaction complete, please? Thank you.
Sure. So this is land on the Golf Course Extension Road. You know, the there's a developer there who had distressed loans from these two lenders, Standard Chartered and Deutsche. And we had been working with the two lenders and the developer for almost now the last better part of 12 months into trying to structure this transaction. And what we have done today is that we have signed up the documents to acquire the debt from these two lenders, and now, hopefully, in an amicable fashion, we will work with the developer to take control of these.
I mean, we have identified about 29 acres of group housing land here, which would translate, including TOD and TDR, to about 7.5 million sq ft of saleable area, almost bang on Golf Course Extension Road, you know, this Sector 61. And I think it may take us, to be fair, with all the approvals, etc., it may take us the better part of 12 months to have it ready for coming to the market. But definitely, this is a geography where after Arbour we are not present, and I think this will be a, a very big addition to our, to our entire sort of, you know, inventory.
Great. So this is the IREO, part of the IREO bid, right?
Yes. That is correct.
Yeah. Okay.
That's correct.
Okay, sir. Excellent. Thank you, and we'll join back for more. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Amit Goela from RaRe Enterprises. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thank you. This question is for Mr. Khattar. Sir, now that you've got that SEZ notification which has come through, that, that 84%, when do you expect that to get normalized kind of situation? Because that will then improve the entire occupancy.
Yeah. Amit, thanks for asking a question. I was honestly feeling a little left out between the new launches and the pricing on the residential side.
I'll make it a point to ask you a question every time.
So, I'm glad the SEZ notification came out in the beginning of December. We have done our homework after that, and as we speak, we have already applied for all the SEZs for the floors that could be denotified under the new circular. So if we look at an overall portfolio of SEZs of INR 13-odd billion, we have applied for INR 1.1 billion to be denotified. Now, the process is that once we do it, make the application, we have to simultaneously go to a chartered surveyor, preferably recognized by the government authorities, and work out what is the level of equivalent of duty drawback that we have to pay. We are in the process of doing that.
We believe that this, we've also been in touch with the ministry officials who will take some more time for starting to clear all this once they put the whole process in place. We believe that by March and April beginning, we should April middle be able to get these denotified. And we will be putting them on rent or in the market for leasing in the month of March, and then take it up from there.
Oh, okay. So March. Okay. Okay, thanks, Sriram. Sriram, plus this under construction Downtown in Chennai, which is there, where you are saying that 90% is leased out, when do you see the revenue from this kicking in?
Yeah. So, Downtown Block 4, Gurgaon, should be ready by the end of this year, and revenue will flow from Q1 of 2025. Downtown, Chennai, Block 1 and 2 should be... We should start paying. The OC has come, the tenant fit outs are going on, and we expect the rental to start from Q1 of FY 2025. Sorry, Block 4 will be from FY 2026, first quarter, and Block 1 and 2 in Chennai, first quarter of FY 2024. And Standard Chartered will be from fourth quarter of FY 2025.
... Okay. Is that it? Okay. So most of it will kick in 2025, 2026?
Block 4 and Standard Chartered block will kick in in FY 2025-2026. Chennai, Block 1 and 2, which is 2 million sq ft, will kick in in 2024-2025.
Fair enough. Fair enough. And one last point on this. See, on the cash flows of DLF, like, there is a dividend payment from DCCDL of INR 258 crores. So that is what sequentially, quarterly paid, or what exactly is this?
No. So, Amitji, what we have agreed now with GIC and Mr. Khattar, and Mr. Khattar agreement was a tougher one to obtain than GIC, I can assure you, is that he will take the—that basically, Cyber City should pay dividend twice a year, you know, every six months, you know, in that sense.
Okay.
Because it's, it's a more predictable business. Instead of accumulating cash through the year and, and, you know, only paying it once. So twice a year, we should ideally, they should pay dividend. DLF will still pay dividend to the shareholders, hopefully only once a year, but from Cyber City, we receive it twice a year.
Okay. Okay, thank you so much. Finally, like, Vivek, all the very best on your new assignment.
Thanks. Thanks, Amitji.
Thank you. Thank you so much, and wish you all the very best.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Saurabh Kumar from JPMorgan. Please go ahead with your question, sir.
Hi, sir. Am I audible?
Yes, sir, you are.
Okay, sir, a few questions. One is, you know, I was just looking at your RERA filings for Privana and Arbour. So your construction costs incrementally are in the INR 9,000 range. You know, is there a reason why the construction costs are so high? Is it like just a high-spec department, which you're doing? So what would explain such high construction costs, which is... Because, I mean, the question is essentially your gross margins should be going up, and they're not.
So, Saurabh, what we are doing now, given the entire material inflation in the last, what, about four to five years, is that we assume a 5% year-on-year material cost escalation, you know, which is baked into this number. And I think there's a 5% contingency for any unforeseen expenses baked in. So actually, if you were to ask Devinder Singh, who is running that project, what if 100% of the expenses were to be outflowed.
Yeah.
Today, the number may be closer to INR 7,500-INR 7, 700, but the balance INR 1,200-INR 1,500 is actually the provision for the next four years' inflation and a potential contingency. The contingency provision keeps on reducing, as we keep on ordering more and more.
Okay. So your gross margins in that case should not have a, I mean, have an upside only.
You know, they should be okay. Because frankly, we have a... I mean, you, you are aware that in the last 12-15 years.
Yeah.
There have been a couple of cycles when inflation has caught us off guard.
Okay, got it. The second is, again, you know, on this price sustainability, so you launched Privana, which was awesome, and then your competitors also kind of cashed in on the momentum and, kind of did some launches. This may be slightly lower, but point is that, what do you think about the sustainability of this price increase, which you're seeing in Gurgaon? Which is like completely dealing with what's happening in the rest of India. So I understand the inventory is low, but at what point it becomes an affordability challenge?
So what is happening, Saurabh, is that affordability also comes with a certain degree of what you are, you know, prioritizing in life. So as I say, your residential sales, post-COVID, earlier, people thought it's an aberration, people thought it's a, you know, maybe a couple of months phenomena, then they said, "No, it's going to be carrying on for a year," then they said, "Two years."
Now, it's accepted that there is a certain set of people who have now decided to come into the space, who historically were not buying real estate, okay? And that's the age group of between 30-40. Then, the NRIs have started to come back in a good way to invest in the country. So as far as price sustainability is concerned, if you see, the overall infrastructure in and around Privana, let me just make that as a case in point for you.
It is the hub between the Dwarka Expressway, the Mumbai Expressway, this- Jaipur National Highway. So basically, if you look at it connectivity-wise, and it abuts 1,000, this 10,000 acres of a green lung, you can't get it better. Now, with regard to the acceptance as far as price points are concerned, I think I will still choose to believe that our pricing has been very responsible. Because if you see the kind of madness that was going on in Gurgaon earlier, we have kind of. Not only we have, we have kept ourselves away from that greed and that lure, and both, and, and demonstrated this very strongly, both in Arbour and in Privana, that we could have picked up at least INR 2,000 per sq ft more, which we didn't, you know? So that is one.
Second, as far as we're concerned and as far as Privana is concerned, the ecosystem, the entire ecosystem and the contiguous land parcel that we have, I am calling it the DLF 6. So all the learnings that we have had in DLF 5, obviously, DLF 5 is super luxury, so not comparing it apple to apple, but I'm saying all the learnings of infra, social infra, and everything else that we had, we will be, you know, taking that to Privana. So you will only see a price increase. And again, I think what has happened today is that there is a certain set of people, if you see the size of investors, has increased over the last three years. And the acceptability of residential real estate investments as an asset class has now become the top priority.
So I think that is, what is it? If you see what was happening to the capital markets over the last five years, why aren't people saying that, "How come investments went from certain billion to certain billion? Where are you seeing that? What will the FIIs pull out? Will individual retail guys." So everybody is trying to grow their market. You know, but in the real estate thing, there is a there is a I, I'm seeing a very sustained demand, Saurabh. And I-
Okay.
I feel that this 80%, because a lot of these investors. In fact, let me make another point clear to you. I, this time, even deduped the Arbour data. So people who got the Arbour were not in the line of reference for Privana. So what people that... And in fact, I'm extremely wary of, you know, these fly-by-the-night investors, because we don't, we we'd rather have, and we have enough people wanting to get better homes from DLF.
Saurabh?
Okay. I think, yeah, you are the guy with the golden touch, sir. So I just want to just add on to one thing on this price thing, because, see, Privana's price is what Magnolias' was like, you know, eight, nine years back. I mean, that's my limited point, that Magnolias started at INR 18,000, Privana under construction, you kind of got to that price. So, but maybe I'll take it offline. Just one last question.
Happy to tell you what Magnolias is trading today at INR 55,000-INR 60,000 per sq ft.
Yeah. No, I understand that. Okay.
And these are-
Just one last-
These are second and third sales, Saurabh, so I'm not even I mean, yes, I have a very strong, retrade team, which is assisting people there, but that's what the price points are in Gurgaon today. If you're wanting a better life, you want, you know, I say it's a great meeting point. It is not only just price point related, it is also becoming the most preferred destination for living, you know, both from the, infrastructure point of view and the social infrastructure point of view. And of course, the connectivity to the airport and everything else. 95% of the offices, big Fortune 500 companies are there, good schools, a great ecosystem, fantastic golf courses, leisure opportunities, cinemas. You don't need anything out of this, you know, this zone that has been created.
Okay. Maybe next time in Gurgaon we can see that New Gurgaon master plan.
Sure.
So just, just very quickly moving on. Sir, just on the construction spend, your construction spends now go up very substantially from here on, you know, because the sales velocity. And, I mean, are there any changes you've done? Because now you're giving fully fitted out apartments. You know, historically, we've had delays. I mean, as your spends go up, are you confident of meeting the timelines you have kind of, thought about? Because your sales have gone up roughly 6x. I mean, the deliveries will have to keep pace. How do you think about that?
So you're, you're right, Saurabh. So I think the two things we have done is obviously significant strengthening of our construction teams on the ground, and also a significant diversification of the contracting ecosystem, you know, frankly. So we are no longer working with just the two or three per Grade A, you know, contractors. We have diversified. We have strengthened our sourcing team, you know, we have strengthened our accounts payable teams. You know, the entire value chain of that entire construction process, because we clearly understand that that could be a weak link if, if it's not focused on, and I think that's what we are doing too.
Okay. Just one last question: When do you see the PNL acceleration in terms of revenue recognition, or when should that start to happen?
Mm-hmm.
Maybe Vik can answer that before he leaves, and we'll hold him to account still in the new company.
Saurabh, I think this, this was asked earlier as well. So I think it's a matter of time before this new sales will start converting it into revenue. So I think possibly I'll - my estimate, it will take another two years- before you see the revenue actually growing almost in line with the new sales booking.
Yep. Okay, got it. Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, to ask a question, please click on the Q&A tab on the panel and click on the Raise Hand button. The operator will announce your name when it is your turn to ask a question. Please accept the prompt on your screen and unmute your microphone while proceeding with your question. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Mohit Agrawal from IIFL. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So my first question is, you know, I wanted to have a view, your view on, the demand for independent floor segment, especially in Gurgaon. So is the momentum continuing, like what we were seeing, you know, last year, last two years? Or, was it more like a post-COVID trend when, and now home buyers are back to buying apartments? So any thoughts on that? And within our launches, how much are we, you know, what share is, independent floors for FY 2025 in the launches?
... So independent floors, most of it, that we had, we've sold. In fact, we've just got the last, 30 odd units to go, as far as floors are concerned, you know, independent floors. And one thing that, since you asked that question, I'd like to say, because I, we keep doing these analysis even within. There's a certain set of customer who only prefers to be in these floors or independent homes. The managing independent homes is becoming quite a hassle for most of the people, so people are graduating to living in floors, and there is a little bit of a community thing also, yet it is tradable and manageable.
So, also happy to let you all know that the DLF independent floors are being traded at a premium of upwards of 15%-20%, which are happening today. The set of people, and there are plenty, because if you look at upcountry, they've not lived in condominiums. If you look at Delhi, most of Delhi has never lived in condominiums. So I am getting—I have a massive, I'd say, interest that comes in and demand that comes in from upcountry as well as Delhi.
You know, people who historically lived in independent homes or even floors there, and are now starting to upgrade because their children go to school here or they work here. So I'm seeing a lot of those people wanting to move here. If they had the choice of condominium living, they chose independent floors. So as a brand, I will continue to say that whatever, I don't have much to your second question. I don't have much in Q4 or Q1 of independent floors. But if I can answer it this way, should I get an opportunity? I'd look forward to it.
Okay. Okay, understood. My second question is, you know, in your land bank slide, you mentioned, you know, in the comment below that the TOD potential is not being considered. Could you give some color around this? How big could this be, and which areas is where you see the maximum TOD potential? And when does this come into your land bank, or when does this come into play? Only once you exhaust the existing pipeline. or it could be more opportunistic? Put some color on that. Yeah.
Yeah. So whenever we launch a project, as an example, when we launched Privana, we looked at the TOD, TDR entitlement that Privana had and tried to maximize that. So it's not that only once we complete this 187 will we start, you know, engaging on TOD and TDR, because TOD and TDR is used on the existing land bank. You know, it's sort of super retrofits on the existing land bank. So this is done on a project-to-project basis.
They will, in all fairness, some micro geographies in Gurgaon also, where we may not be able to consume the entire TOD, TDR entitlement because of either height restrictions or footprint restrictions on account of buildings already built. So this is a WIP, in all fairness, but I think this will add to this number by a significant margin, for sure. But we are not letting TOD, TDR relax. Whenever we are doing a new project, we try to sort of, you know, assess the max, the maximization of TOD and TDR we can do in that project, both on the Devco side and on the Rentco side.
Okay. Okay, and, okay, understood. And then, and lastly, any update on the Midtown, Tower D launch? I, you know, and, are we planning to launch this in, FY 2024, or will it spill into FY 2025?
You know, what has happened is, with all this hullabaloo that Gurgaon has been, you know, all the attention that Gurgaon has been getting, we have almost sold out Tower D. We've got the last 70 odd units left, you know, of One Midtown.
Before the launch.
Even before. We planned it to do this in Q4, first Q3, Q4, but we are almost cleaned, you know, just 70 odd units there. So I don't think it merits a launch, and there's just Tower D left now. The four bedroom, we had always planned to do with the club launch, which is, sometime in Q1 or Q2. But I don't think really now, you know, that I don't think we're going to be doing a big bang launch or anything. I think we're almost, you know, out of 225 - 235 odd units, we're almost there, just 70 units to go. So, I don't think there'll be a launch anymore there.
Okay, that's perfect. Thanks a lot for answering my questions, and wish you the best, Vivek.
Thanks. Thanks, Mohit.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir, thanks a lot for the opportunity, and congratulations on a great quarter. So after achieving your guidance of INR 13,000, so what are the next targets for FY 2024 and 2025?
So, I mean, depending on how the entire, you know, launch pipeline pans out, and clearly we will be looking at a number which is at least a moderate increase from what we achieved in FY 2024. I mean, traditionally, as you know, we come up with the sales guidance for next year, typically in the annual closing analyst call, which will be in early or mid-May, which is when we would update this. By that time, you know, this entire thing on when are we launching Privana 2, the final pipeline, final timeline on the DLF 5 launch, all of these uncertainties would also have been frozen by then. But I clearly look at a number which is, you know, hopefully a 15, 15+ number at a very moderate level for next year.
... And even for FY 2024 now being done INR 13,000 crore, so looking at that INR 15,000 crore plus for the full year as a whole?
So look, I think, as I think Aakash mentioned earlier also, you know, in one, some of the interactions post Privana, we are trying to see if we can, we can advance the launch of one major project, which is currently stated for Q1 into Q4. I mean, obviously the market is there, the customer pipeline is there. I think it's a question of can we get all the, all the approval processes done by, by mid-March for it to launch?
So I think, you know, I think there clearly there will, there will be a launch, Parikshit, definitely before the end of April for sure. Whether it happens on 15th March or 15th April is something that, that I think we are not necessarily losing our sleep about. I think clearly we do expect that the next round of Privana should come to the market, hopefully, you know, in the very near term.
Oh, great. This is the last question on this new land bank, sir, which we have announced. So you said 7.5 million sq ft will be, I understand, the carpet sale, carpet area, and 12-odd will be sellable. So this INR 825 crore will be the total consideration?
Parikshit, 7.5 million sq ft sellable is what we said.
Sorry, sir, what?
7.5 million sq ft, sellable area.
Okay, sellable, because I think you earlier mentioned 12.5, so I think it's just clarifying that. So, this flow, this INR 825 crores is the... crores is the total consideration for this sellable area?
So-
Beyond this, you will also need to invest on TOD.
No. INR 825 crore was the outstanding loan that the developer had vis-à-vis these two banks. Actually, the loan was, I think, INR 1,200 crore. The bankers agreed to take a haircut as a one-time settlement. So INR 825 crore is what we have bought the loan at from the bankers. We are in the process of finalizing our agreement with the developer for acquisition of this 29 acres with the, you know, with the requisite FAR. And I think whatever is the delta would then need to be paid out. So INR 825 crore is not the consideration for 29 acres. The consideration would be slightly higher than that. 825 is the price that we have bought these bonds from the current bondholder, so that now we are the lender and we will now run that process in an amicable manner to acquire the targeted land.
What will be the total developer potential in terms of value? 7.5 million sq ft available. What kind of sales potential is this?
I don't want to hazard a guess, but, Aakash, Golf Course Extension Road, what will be the sale price, you know? So I think 7.5 million sq ft would be late teens, but...
I, I'll let Saurabh speculate that.
Yeah.
So he felt INR 18,000. So I'm dreading saying anything to you all.
Eighteen [Foreign language].
No, no, it's a fantastic parcel. You know, we are very excited about it, and it'll be a, you know. Hopefully, as soon as we get it, I think it's going to be a good turnaround. Also, you know what the Golf Course Road is trading at today. So, at this point in time, you know, I think let us get into the market a little bit, let us do our surveys. But it will be a good number. Again, responsible number. But I mean, you know-
This is not included in the plan?
No, this is not included in the launch guidance, because the launch guidance was prepared yesterday evening, and this agreement was signed today afternoon.
Okay, sir. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Those are my questions.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Kunal Lakhan from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, good evening. Just wanted to understand, like, since Mumbai is second in line after Gurgaon, in terms of launches, what are the specs that we are looking at? You know, what kind of units, what kind of ticket sizes we'll be launching there?
So right now, it's going to be premium plus thing. Ticket size, again, yet to be fully finalized, but be between INR 5.5 crore-INR 7.5 crore. And as far as the sizes are concerned, you know, we're- Yeah, it's three bedroom, three bedroom plus, but we're just about finalizing all that. But it's going to be a good development, again, in the lines of what DLF does with infrastructure and all that.
And of course, the lifestyle quotient with the club and everything else will come with it. So, as far as the product is concerned, I mean, the first cut has come out pretty well. So, yes, you know, please keep a lookout for us. And, I think that's the price point that at this point in time, that we're looking at. But I am now getting. I'm going to be spending some time in Mumbai, starting, you know, say, maybe February, March onwards. You know, some realization price thing we'll kind of do once we are on ground. But more or less, we've got an idea of what we're going to be launching at. I think, yeah, I mean, we're also pretty excited to come to Mumbai. So, yeah.
Sure. And any update on Tulsiw adi? I mean, Mumbai also has been doing well, especially the luxury bit, right? And that location is like, you know, well sought out for. So any update there and, you know, any timeline that we internally hold that, you know, to start looking at monetizing that project?
No, no. So I mean, Tulsi wadi, obviously, you know, we are currently at the rough end of the legal fight. I mean, as you may have read about four, five months back, one of the three, as per three shareholders, you know, frankly, you know, I mean, basically, [acquired], I mean, the land was sort of, you know, auction in a very less than transparent manner to an ARC, who transferred it to a affiliate of one of the shareholders. So currently, both us and Shapoorji Pallonji are in extremely intensive litigation, you know, with frankly both the lenders, PNB HFL, and the concerned ARC. And we are hoping for a just, fair, and equitable resolution of that, you know. So clearly it's not coming up for a launch anytime soon, because some of these legal issues have to be resolved.
Sure. Sure. And, and lastly, you know, we are generating these, these very strong free cash flows, both in DLF as well as DCCDL. But, you know, in terms of our new business plans or new development plans, I mean, we got into Mumbai, but, are we looking at any other market actively besides Mumbai on the west or, or the, or the, on the, on the southern side?
So we are clearly looking at certain opportunities from a growth standpoint, you know. As you recall, Vivek always used to say that, you know, free cash flow will be used for shareholder returns and growth capital, so we are still looking at growth capital. But truth be told, most of our opportunities that we are pursuing right now are within the NCR fold, you know, in that sense, which is where I think we have a strong presence and hopefully can deliver value.
We've actually taken Vivek's guidance very seriously. So the growth will come.
Sure. Sure, sure. Khattarji, one quick question for you. And we did highlight that, you know, last time that we are seeing discussions or interest coming back from GCCs. Although nothing has been put on, you know, paper yet, but are we seeing incremental signs of, like, you know, new leasing coming back, especially from the larger players, larger GICs and MNCs?
Yes, the demand, or the interest from GCCs continues to be robust, and, I believe that in the next few quarters it will only grow. When these GCCs come to India, they look for, three, four aspects, where I dare say, at the cost of... And I don't want to be immodest, where we are able to sort of satisfy, quite well. One is they look at what levels of sustainability do we have, and what steps do we take in that area and in the area of ESG. Second, they look, at, what we can provide for the employees of, these GCCs who come, in terms of social infrastructure and better quality amenities, safety, security, et cetera. Third, they look at scalability. And fourth, they look at the quality of the real estate developer.
So I think as we go forward, this definition of so-called Grade A office space at 700 million sq ft, will slowly get, start getting segmented, where we will have Grade A++ office space and Grade A office space. And Grade A++ office space, I dare say, would be between 150 million sq ft- 250 million sq ft, and that is the segment in which we would continue to operate and grow.
Sure, sure. But, but in case, in a sense, like, are you expecting, like, larger deals to start closing from, say, a couple of quarters?
Yes, we expect larger deals to close from a couple of quarters. I may share with you a deal that was closed recently. To our surprise, one of our tenants wanted to see our pipeline of growth for the next seven years. And this was in Gurgaon, and when we shared that with him, Downtown phase II, for which we have only started doing the rafts and, you know, preparatory work on the site, there was a building, we have 4.5 million sq ft of offices coming behind the mall, and that's a total of about 7.5 million development.
This very marquee GCC took 160,000 sq ft with deposits, with an option, hard option, to take on another 160,000, in a building for which we have not yet started construction. We are having also strong inquiries on our joint venture with Hines, which in terms of timing, we had planned well. So, say, Downtown 4 gets delivered end of this calendar year. The joint venture with Hines, which we call Atrium Place, those buildings start getting ready from, say, April-May 2025. Therefore, they are well sort of timed, and by the time they get completed, we will have the phase two of Downtown delivery starting to come in place, with a lag of about six months to 12 months.
Sure. Sure. Thank you so much, and all the best to you, Vivek. Thank you.
Thanks, Kunal. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Abhinav Sinha from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
... Hi, Khattar sir, just a quick follow-up on, Kunal's question. So, on the rent side, are we seeing some movement or it's still a few quarters away?
No, [touchwood], we are seeing the rents getting not only stabilized, but moving up. I'm pleased to share that the last lease that we did in Downtown 4 was at INR 150 a sq ft, and the last lease that we did at Downtown in Chennai was at INR 100 a sq ft. So we are seeing renters slowly inching up. Cyber City, our budget for this year was INR 114, and we'll probably be doing slightly better than the budget in the current year.
Right. And sir, last one on DCCDL transfer that we have seen, you know, the DLF Center. So, I mean, are we looking to transfer the remaining also from DLF and, you know, including the ones, the malls, I think, which are under construction?
So one thing we have realized is that it's, you know, frankly, from a value realization standpoint, it's always best to transfer assets once they are completed and rent yielding, versus when they are in the development phase and subject to a lot of, you know, assumptions on valuation, et cetera. I mean, if you recall, we had transferred the parent Cyber City assets in September, December 2017, transferred the next round of assets in, if I'm not wrong, September 2019. In some sense, this is the third tranche of those assets.
So we, I mean, the DLF Cyber City, DLF Center transfer required the permission from the minority shareholders. So hence, we have taken to the audit committee and board this time, and now we'll run the minority shareholder process. Hopefully, by the time this closes, you know, we may also be looking to transfer one or two other assets which are currently in active rental on the DLF side of the equation onto Cyber City, assuming we are able to settle the price and other terms agreement with GIC at Cyber City.
Great, sir. Thanks and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Saurabh Kumar from JPMorgan. Please go ahead.
Sir, just a few follow-ups. So one is, this Atrium Place, it says, sales value. So, I mean, the intention is to sell it or it's part of your development that is INR 7,000 crore, or is that just the capital value?
So this is a capital value. I mean, the idea being obviously, Saurabh, that at some stage, you know, as and when Cyber City, you know, does have a monetized solution, you know, Atrium Place may also be potentially contribute to that. But this is not—this is a building hardcore for lease. This is like a classical Rentco asset, you know? It's just that as and when the monetization proposition or solution comes up for Cyber City as a whole, you know, we'll talk to Hines at that time to see also if we can contribute that as well into the monetization.
Okay. Basis current visibility, sir, where will you think the exit rental or ex for FY 2025 stabilizes now?
Saurabh, I was waiting for this question. It should stabilize between INR 5,100 crore and INR 5,200 crore. FY 2024 or 2025?
FY 2025. Okay, INR 5,100 crore, INR 5,200 crore. And this will exclude the... It excludes Atrium, right? I mean, Atrium will be-
Yeah, it excludes Atrium.
Atrium. No, no, sorry. Yeah.
So for 2024. No, March 2025. March 2024, exit. March 2024, exit is [52]. Yeah. He's talking about-
In the parent, it will, should be at the current run rate, right? And in DLF.
DLF Center will come, DLF Center will get re-reduced from-
Yeah.
... from parent and go into Cyber City. So, you know, that INR 65 crores or INR 60 crores, INR 65 crores will get added to Cyber City.
But nothing is competing in DLF in the next one year, right? None of the malls you are building or the-
All malls will come into play, NOIDA will come into play, and so that's about INR 50-odd crore. INR 55 crore in NOIDA, yeah. So what will happen on the DLF side, at one side, once the DLF Center deal is consummated, INR 60 crore of rental will shift from DLF to DCCDL. In DLF, the two, the data center one and about 500,000 of IT park, that will start yielding rents of roughly an equivalent amount, maybe INR 5 crore a year.
Yeah. So basically, DLF remains constant, that goes up. Okay, got it.
Yeah.
Just one last question, sir, on this deal, which you've done. To me, like, effectively your property prices are going up, but if I look at the transaction, and even if I make assumptions around land cost, other charges, land cost is not going up, right? So you're basically buying 7.5 million sq ft for less than, I don't know, maybe INR 1,400-INR 1,500 a sq ft. So that's a very sweet spot for you as a developer to use cash when land price is not going up, property price is going up, so your incremental margins are better. I mean, if you want to comment on that.
So Saurabh, you are right, that from- And very rough back of the envelope computation, from the agreed land cost and all the governmental charges required to go up to the peak of 4.5 + FAR, I think our, our landed land cost will come to around or less than INR 2,500 per sq ft of saleable area, you know. And, and so obviously, given the price points, hopefully in the Golf Course Extension Road, that is a fairly sweet spot.
... So, wouldn't should you be doing more of this? Like, I mean, this is like the situation doesn't last for long, right? Because.
All of this transaction has taken 19 months of my life.
[crosstalk]
19 months of my life, my HbA1c has shot up by about 20% in this transaction, so let's-
Yeah.
We'll do it as-
It takes only two days for Aakash to sell it. Yeah.
These are...
I mean, the sugar levels of Aakash and Ashok are constant.
You know, I mean, navigating this asset piece is.
Yeah.
Is amazing in itself.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, got it. Thank you. Great.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question of our question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ashok Tyagi for closing comments.
Thank you. So, A, obviously, I would like to thank all of you, you know, for again coming out and supporting us. Yes, we have hopefully had a very good quarter, and I think this is the harbinger of possibly, you know, not only the next quarter, but hopefully the next, you know, couple of years, if not longer. I mean, both the Devco and the Rentco, both offices and the malls, I mean, really, all the segments are firing right now in unison. I mean, the one delta there was with respect to SEZ lands, and that also has now been rectified.
So hopefully, you know, all the engines of the company should be working together. Our free cash flow is now reasonably strong. You know, we are, as mentioned earlier, we'll keep on distributing that across shareholder returns and growth capital. So I think overall, I think the company is definitely and hopefully looks to be... I mean, the company and the industry look to be in a relatively decent zone. I'd also like to take this opportunity, frankly, to thank Vivek, you know, who I think in the last four and a quarter years or four years plus?
4+ years.
4+ years. Honestly, has been tremendous in terms of putting sanity in our choices, you know, in our cash flow systems, in terms of strengthening not only the teams below him, but also the IT networks. I mean, in some sense, you know, I think he was exactly what we needed. And, you know, while we tried our level best to have him stay back, you know, he wants to ride a motorcycle now, so which is okay. But again, you know, on behalf of all of us, I think we once again thank him enormously for what he contributed here.
Thank you.
All the best, Vivek.
Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
On behalf of DLF Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.