Five earnings conference call. We have with us today on the call Mr. Ashok Tyagi, Managing Director and CFO, DLF Limited. Mr. Sriram Khattar, Vice Chairman and MD, Rental Business. Mr. Aakash Ohri, Joint Managing Director and Chief Business Officer. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ashok Tyagi for his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Tyagi.
Okay, thanks, Michelle. So good morning, good afternoon, everybody, and thanks for taking time out on a Saturday first half, you know. I mean, we invariably end up doing this on a Saturday because the meeting is held on a Friday, so apologies for that. You know, I mean, as you must have seen the numbers and the presentation by now, I think we continue to be on a very steady and a positive clip on both the development and the rental businesses. The quarterly new sales last quarter was an aberration slip, and it was only about INR 690 odd crores because frankly, sometimes you can't micromanage the approval cycles, and some of the approvals that we were expecting to come in Q2, actually, one of them has now come in Q3, which is for the Dahlias.
Some other approvals are in the pipeline. We still maintained a first half total sales pre-sales of about 7,000 crores and continue to be strongly poised for achieving our sales guidance for the year. On the free cash flow piece, you know, we continue to generate strong cash flows and did about 1,200 crores of free cash flow on the DevCo side, and about 900 dollar crores of free cash flow before dividend and CapEx on the RentCo side. Combined as a business, we continue to generate about 2,000 crores plus of free cash flow per quarter.
The PAT for the quarter was 781 from an operating standpoint, and then there was that one-time deferred tax liability reversal, which you may have seen and observed in some other listed entities as well, and we'll discuss with it about it as we process. That added a further 600-odd crores to the PAT. In all fairness, I would suggest not putting too much weight on that, because that in to a large measure is a notional entity, which because of Ind AS, you know, one has to account for in that manner. It did end up reporting a higher PAT than the year before, sure. We have a very strong, you know, launch and sales pipeline for the second half.
On the rental business, you know, while obviously the rental portfolio continues to expand, I think buoyed by the overall positivity that generates, we have accelerated our CapEx programs, as Mr. Khattar will elucidate during this hour. You know, the Downtown Gurgaon, the Downtown Chennai, the retail in Downtown Gurgaon, Atrium Place, the three plazas that we are developing in the final stage of completion in Gurgaon, Delhi and Goa. So there's a flurry of activity happening on the rental business as well as there is on the development business. Beyond that, I would suggest that now, you know, leave the floor open. The only other opening remark that I'd like to mention is that we have tried to make a slight change in the way our presentations are structured.
Because we felt that this, the presentations were by and large structured on the financial lines of DLF Limited and DCCDL. And as we know that there is right now a small but hopefully a growing rental business in DLF as well. So we would try to also start capturing more metrics of RentCo as a whole and DevCo as a whole. Because while today the rental business of DLF is, you know, maybe less than 78% of the total rental business, this proportion will grow in the next two to three years to a more sizable number, and I think it is important that we also share that data in a transparent fashion with the market. Beyond that, now I'll open the floor for questions.
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, please click on the Raise Hand icon tab available on your toolbar or on the QA tab available on your screen. You may also post your text questions on the Ask the Question tab available on your screen. Kindly turn on your mic when the operator announces your name. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question assembles. The first question is from the line of Puneet Gulati from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you so much, and congratulations on, you know, good progress. My first question is with respect to the launch approvals. If you can update us on where you are in, you know, approval state for various launches, Goa, Dahlias, you said you've got approvals. When is the launch, formal launch expected and, and the other projects like the rest of the phases of Privana?
Okay. So Puneet, as you, as you're right, and as we have mentioned in the, I think the release, the Dahlias formal approvals have come in in the first week of October, you know, and I think Aakash will detail out to you later on the entire pre-launch cycle and how he's progressing there. The balance approvals, which is Mumbai and the next phase of Privana are all in different stages of the approval processes. Sometimes, you know, frankly, especially for non-Gurgaon approvals, it becomes, you know, very difficult to predict down to the last fortnight. But we continue to be confident of hopefully launching Mumbai in Q4, and Privana and Goa also look to be going on track.
As I mentioned that, you know, especially now with the Dahlias pre-launch, we are far more confident now, and we are very strong that we should be able to meet our guidance that we had given to you for the full year.
Aakash, if you can talk a bit on the Dahlias side. Initially, the expectation was it will be a INR 50,000 crore realization product. Now, at least the media reports seem to be suggesting INR 80,000 per sq ft and much larger area sizes as well. If you can comment something on Dahlias as well.
Before Aakash answers, just one, to ensure that everybody stays on the factual piece. As you know, RERA filings are public, and some of you may have already downloaded. The RERA filing, what we have filed right now is the total revenue of about INR 26,000 crores for Dahlias, based on the pre-launch price that Aakash has. These numbers will obviously keep on going upward as the price keeps on moving. But what's been reported in RERA officially is a total revenue of INR 26,000 crores and a margin of 70% plus. That is what we have basically reported on the RERA website. Aakash?
Yeah, thank you.
Thanks. So, Puneet, as Mr. Tyagi just mentioned, that is the beginning. As you know, Camellias started with a 7,000 crore valuation, and we are exiting at about 12,500 crores. So I think super luxury has to be dealt completely separate from how the rest of the country or anything else sells. You know, it has a certain prestige, it has a certain process, and I think we need to respect that. You know, putting price to a super luxury product, so I can say it will go up to a phenomenal amount. You've seen how Camellias's recent sales have been, and not one, many sales have, you know, been in the three-digit number. So I feel the start is what you just mentioned.
But we've got, I think, very humbled by the response we've got for Dahlias, and I think we would like to keep it, you know, one day at a time. We've built up a very good equity here, and across the globe as well. What has happened right now, Puneet, is that today, people are looking for the best lifestyle that money can buy, and Dahlia is today that option for the country. Another good thing that I'd like to share with you all is that it is no more a geographic development or people who are - there's no more a south, north kind of a divide. I have seen in super luxury, including our projects in Goa and, of course, Camellias, it has been pan-India.
The recent sales and the interest that I am seeing is coming from top families of tier two cities all over the country, so I'm pretty excited with this kind of a you know, feedback, and I feel that the start point is where we are today. It is only going to go up. As I said, this is not a first day first show kind of a scenario. It's one of the largest projects that the country's had, almost, as you know, almost $7 billion. So I think what is important right now is to keep it that way, but the product is absolutely out of the world. It is one of the best that has ever been made, and I can say it with great pride.
There is. I don't think there is anything comparable to the Dahlias in the world. You know, with four meters ceiling, ground to ceiling heights, you know, magnificent, 17 feet, outdoor living spaces decks, 10,300 sq ft is the minimum size that you begin with. And of course, one of the most spectacular greens that are going to be created, lake parks. So it is going to be a paradise. You can, you can dream whatever you want to. We are on our way to implement it. Puneet?
Excellent. All the best for that. And my second question is, you know, you would have seen all your peers also raising equity and now more aggressively buying, you know, land, et cetera, in NCR region. How do you feel about that, and are you doing anything to accelerate your launches for FY twenty-six then?
So, Puneet, peers, it's always good to have good competition. You know, you need to be kept on your toes. You know, complacency is not good, but again, I say respectfully to everybody here that peers are doing what they do, we do what we know best. We do, and one most important thing, where we get the support from, is our existing customers. We have a very strong retention team that is on ground for the last almost four years. All they do daily is to make sure that our existing customers' interests are kept protected, and they continue to grow. Peers will come and go, but I think we need to work on our areas.
I'd rather look inwards and continue to make sure that my customers are satisfied and happy, and then, of course, if they are, then most of the business and a lot of it then is generated out of that constituency, and then, of course, we continue to mine every day. You know, our NRI business has grown from 3%, 8%, to about almost now 28% this year, so we will continue to make sure that you know, not only in India, but across the globe, we will continue to market DLF products. So, as far as the pipelines are concerned, yes, Privana, as you know, the Privana III, there is a huge demand coming in for that now. That ecosystem is doing phenomenally well.
American Express, with their massive office, almost 20,000 people, moved in in that area, and that area is coming out, it's infrastructurally extremely good, so that is the next thing to do, then, of course, couple of other things that are happening, so we will continue to do our bit, I assure you, but I don't think we are going to be, you know, doing this because we are pressurized with peers or something. We've got our own. We've got a very robust three-year Gurgaon plan, Puneet.
Understood. That's very helpful, and thank you so much. Lastly, on the rental business, can you also give some sense of where does the rental EBITDA for your main parent company stand? And what is the expectation into FY twenty-five and in twenty-six? And also exit rental EBITDA for DCCDL.
Puneet, the FY 2025 exit rental and I would add the other income, because that's the total rental revenue, so to say, will be as guided earlier in the ballpark of INR 5,000 crores. Add to that another about INR 300 crores in DLF, so it'll be INR 5,300 crores. For FY 2026, this total will jump to about INR 5,800 for DCCDL, and will jump to about INR 1,000 crores for DLF, taking it to about INR 6,800 crores. This is because the new assets which are going to be income generating in DLF are all coming up in the current year, be it the three malls that are there or DLF share in Atrium Place, our joint venture with Hines.
Okay, and when you talk about the INR 1,000 crore EBITDA for DLF, you are attributing only your share or the entire Atrium's share?
This is the entire thing. So if you look at only our share, it will be in the ballpark of about 800, because certain properties are owned by DLF. It's only Atrium Place, which is owned 67%.
Right. And if you can give the number for Atrium standalone as well, so we know what the other...
Atrium standalone numbers we will share with you separately, but out of the 2.9 million sq ft development we expect rental to commence from May-June onwards for about 2.1 million which will get completed. We will have the benefit of 8-9 months' rentals there. Another tower which is about 800,000 sq ft is slated for completion in December 2025 for which the rental should start in May-June 2026. If you take a total of about 300 million and take a say an average rent of say 160-odd you can do the arithmetic around. I would sense about 600.
About six hundred, yeah. Understood. That's very helpful. Thank you so much. All the best, and happy Diwali!
Thank you.
Happy Diwali.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Saurabh Kumar from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.
Hi. Can you hear me?
Yes, sir.
Sir, just a few questions. First is on Dahlias. The RERA filing, which you filed, you know, the gross margins, as you rightly said, is 70%. That seems to imply a construction cost north of, like, INR 20,000. Is the number right? I mean, why is the construction cost so high?
No, so, one point, I think the total construction cost on a carpet area basis that's been filed is, if I'm not mistaken, about 18,000 or so.
Correct.
which translates to a lesser number on a saleable basis. So there are two pieces here. Frankly, some of the accounting on it will get settled over time, which is that apart from the buildings and the construction cost there, there is a massive lake, park, et cetera, that is also being developed, as well as there is a infrastructure that will be developed to, you know, I mean, to basically have a seamless connectivity. So I think some of those costs will also settle here. We also please appreciate that the club that is being slated for the Dahlias will almost be two X. Correct me, Aakash, if I'm right.
2.5x.
2.5 times the size of the club in Camellias, you know, in that sense.
Camellias is about 1.6 lakh sq ft.
Yeah, so this is almost a four lakh sq ft-ish club. So the club cost is also baked in here. So I think some of these costs will, we will fine-tune as the sales price will fine-tune. I mean, Saurabh, to be fair, I think if you are basically hinting that the 70% may be a lower number than what will eventually turn out to be, that may be correct, and hopefully that will be correct. But I think this is what the starting numbers that we thought we should prudently go with. And obviously, as every six months or, you know, these filings keep on getting updated, you know, hopefully these numbers will keep on getting updated.
Okay, so basically in the construction cost, you basically subsume that entire, the land near Crest basically comes into golf course. You basically-
No, no, not entire. As I said, there's some accounting allocation that's been done, but yes. But the cost here is not only the cost of the tower construction, it also includes the cost of A, the club-
Okay.
and at least some of the surrounding infrastructure.
...Okay. And so basically, now it's fair to say that the last of Crest is now done, it's all going to be then, Golf Course necklace, the Dahlias and the subsequent phases?
Yeah.
That does look to be the case right now, but again, one doesn't know how life in future will be.
Okay.
But currently, you are right, that the plan is to have the sort of...
Okay
Camellias, like, product like necklace around.
Okay, got it, sir. And just, Aakash, just any initial feedback you've got? Like, there are only 400 units you need to sell, about 420-odd. How should we think about what your initial demand is, and basis that, like, if you were to think about your full-year guidance of 17,000 crores, how would you think? I mean, what will be your feedback?
So, Saurabh, so far so good. We've pretty overwhelmed with the initial first set of, I'd say, very strong UIs, which have been concluded. And I think it's a extremely good start. But as I said to you, you know, in previous discussions also, that I think this is something that we'd like to, you know, keep polishing and bringing out almost, you know, every quarter. So right now, the kind of first set that has come out almost double to what your expectations were. So hopefully, that should also reflect in the stock values. You should, you know, do that also. So, but I think most importantly, one step at a time, I think this is it's been very well received.
Allow me to share the numbers in time, and in Q3. But I think right now, what has happened is that where I see this coming from is that the people who initially missed the Camellias bus, and are still a lot of them who reside in Golf Links, and of course, outside of it, people who, I'm seeing a lot of people in Tier Two cities or even Mumbai, Bangalore, Chennai, you know, they have now started to invest in Delhi. They need like a place there.
And I am seeing a lot of demand in the recent Camellias, and not demand, I mean, sales, in the recent Camellias from there, including Kanpur and Bhubaneswar and everywhere, which I feel is also going to drive the Dahlias demand. So these are all qualified leads. Everybody knows the price points are between the numbers that have been quoted. Most of them know that's a four-year payment plan. They know that there is going to be almost a 30% outflow in the first year. They know that the product is what it is today. Also, the entire ecosystem that we are making is going to be one of its kind, you know? So the necklace will complete, as you and Mr. Tyagi have said.
But again, with super luxury in time, I think once the lake park and all that come about and the, you know, the landscapes and all that, people start to see, it is, I wish I can say it's comparable to the golf club. It's going to be far, far, far more superior in terms of, the view corridors that we are creating and aesthetically, and everything else. So it's going to be... It's going to complement the Dahlias in a very big way. So, Saurabh, when we start, there's going to be an X amount of numbers or traction. Then, as I see it, obviously, it has to, you know, maybe plateau in some stage, but that's the time that we are...
Very interestingly, Dahlias is also a very step-up kind of a price point game. So it's not like blocks, it's like every apartment is different from the other in terms of price points and PLCs and all. So therefore, there is already a kind of a step up, which is already planned in the budgeting process. So, I think one quarter at a time, but, I'm seeing right now a good amount of interest. I just want to see how much of that we will convert, and then we will keep reporting to you, Saurabh.
In fact, Saurabh, through you, I mean, through your question, I would also like to sort of, you know, inform indicatively, and Kuldeep will work the details with your entire team, that after the Q3 results are over, so sometime in February, at a mutually convenient date, we would like to organize an analyst day, by which time all of our Dahlias plans and all, you know, will be completely, you know,
Out there.
Ready to be out there, ready to be shown. Our entire plans on Downtown will be ready to be shown, and I think hopefully, you know, all of you will get a far greater clarity, you know, of how this entire ecosystem on both the Downtowns in RentCo and the Dahlias and the Privana on the DevCo side are coming along.
And Atrium Place.
And obviously, Atrium Place. So at some time, I think Kuldeep will work the details out, but I think we are right now targeting sometime in February for organizing an analyst day, because March onwards starts getting important.
So just coming back to Dahlias. Your Camellias is at one lakh thirty, let's say. Historically, DLF has never given significant discounts on, you know, new launch projects versus completed. And now you're coming with Dahlias. Your RERA filing seems to indicate seventy to eighty K. Why is there such a big difference when Dahlias is a better product than Camellias?
No, one lakhs, one lakh thirty thousand, you are talking about carpet, right?
...will be one lakh, right?
Yes.
Yeah, actually, the RERA carpet
Humne file kiya hai Dahlias ka, it's about a lakh rupees a sq ft. So Saurabh, the Camellias is a completed project. Dahlias is a four-year, I mean, four to five years horizon. So obviously, but in fact, I thought you were complimenting us, saying that very aggressive pricing. But yeah, there's not much difference. I mean, if you see, there's only. You have to keep some kind of a, you know, give them a head start. But Camellias, obviously right now, is established. People are living there, people are moving in there, people, you know? So, Dahlias, I'm sure will overtake that in a, you know, reasonable short span of time.
Okay, understood. Sir, just last two questions. So one is on DLF RentCo. Your rentals have gone to 120-odd crores this quarter in the cash flow statement. What is the ex-commissioning which has happened incrementally this quarter?
So, there are four new streams of income that are going to come in, or I would say, one is the mall that we have, the small one in West Delhi in Moti Nagar. That the OC is expected by the-
Leasing in this quarter, apparently we will report INR 120,000 rental income on the DLF side.
Yeah.
So that's, I think, what he's asking.
So you're asking about that, or how it is going to pan out over the next few quarters?
Saurabh, isme shayad kya hota hai ki, when we report that rental income, we include the DMA income, which is basically the fee income for providing construction services to Cyber City that we provide. And as the downtown construction has sort of, you know, accelerated, you know, that number is stronger. But I think it's an important point, and I'll request the finance team to, for henceforth, sort of segregate that out so that there's no confusion on this.
Okay. Got it. And, just lastly on this, you know, so the cash flow which you get from your Midtown project, should we expect that dividend this year or next year? And similarly, the Atrium consolidation, that will be a JV consolidation or you will consolidate it parent?
So the One Midtown is a JV consolidation, and it's been like that from the start. We expect that the cash flow should start coming in from Q3, and hopefully between Q3 and Q4, large chunk of it should get accounted for. But some of it could get accounted for in Q1 also, because, as you know, some of the four-bedroom units will be sold now in that sense, hopefully with a very shorter payment plan. But yes, cash flow should start accruing. Some part of P&L of our total share of about 1,000 odd crores, about 250 crores to revenue share, has been accrued in the last few quarters, but the balance P&L should also start accruing as higher, with a higher share from Q3 onwards.
Because now the OC has been received, I think the offers of possession are in the process of being sent out, so I think, you know, hopefully, both the P&L and the cash flow on One Midtown should start now.
Okay. And just last thing: so, in the AGM, the chairman said that the cash proceeds will be used to make gross debt zero. That still stands, at DLF level?
So, if you, if you see, the net debt is already zero, you know, in that sense.
Yeah.
So when we say gross debt zero, we are basically saying that even excluding the 70% RERA account, you know, our total, I think, may, you know... Honestly, right now, we look on track, but if there's some very interesting, you know, opportunity that comes up, like the Sector 61 opportunity that came in February, you know, that's something that we'll see. So but it's clearly, I mean, if there's no other significant, you know, opportunity that, that is pursued, I think that's a target which remains on track, frankly, in the next three to four quarters. Yeah.
Okay. Thanks, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take the next question from Praveen Chaudhary from Morgan Stanley. And the question is: "Thank you for the presentation. Just to understand the launch strategy for DLF Dahlias, would you wait for confirmed interest from 10 or 50 or 80 units before launching the project? Is there any chance it could get delayed to January 2025 or 4Q?
Who? Whose question?
Praveen from Morgan Stanley.
Okay. No, Praveen, thanks. It's not going to get delayed. It's already on the floor. And as far as the main launch is concerned, with the whole experience center experience and everything else, that I had stated some time back, that is going to be sometime in July, August. But thanks to the demand, thanks to the support, and the good amount of inquiries that we've got from our super luxury customers, we have already done post-RERA. We are already in the market. I assure you, it's been an overwhelming response.
If you allow me to, you know, just give me this time to close the numbers, and then state them, you know, in our next call, I think it'll be better. But all I can say to you that it is whatever numbers that you just mentioned, I don't know, ten, thirty, eighty, but you know, all of the above, let me put it this way. So, we are on our way to, you know, at least start. It's a good start. We've got good inquiries. We've got good UIs. We've got, they're all backed with, if I can give you a little more confidence, they are all backed with instruments which are already banked.
Money is in the account, so therefore, there is no speculation. So there's no speculation. Q3, you will see, substantial amount of the, I mean, as, a reasonable sum of money, towards the new sales booking from The Dahlias in Q3 numbers.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from Parvez Kazi from Nuvama Group. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for taking my question, so my first question is to Khattar sir. Sir, what would be the completion timelines for the Mall of Gurgaon? I believe you've already given out the construction contracts, and also same timelines for DT Gurgaon Block four and Chennai Block three.
Okay. I'll start with the offices first. Downtown Four, we expect the OC during this quarter. It is nearing completion now. Hopefully, in the next five, six months, the tenants will do their fit-outs. We expect the rentals to commence from sometime in the month of May, June next year. Fortunately, it's completely leased now, and therefore, it's only a question of getting the OC, the tenants doing the fit-outs and the rental income commencing. For the mall, which is about 2.1 million sq ft, and the offices next to it, of about 5.5 million, this entire development of 7.5 million, the excavation has nearly been completed.
The drafting, et cetera, is also getting completed, and we propose to start the civil construction by late December, early January. That has been delayed by a month or two because we are given to understand that the National Building Code is changing the structural codes, and we want to be compliant with the new codes. Therefore, the level of structural design and planning has taken longer than what we anticipated. And the timelines to complete this is in the ballpark of 36-39 months. When we look at Downtown Chennai, we expect the OC for Downtown 3, where we have just two tenants, out of whom one has already commenced fit-outs because the Fire NOC, et cetera, have come. We expect the OC again by late December, early January.
The construction work for Downtown four and five, which is 3.5 million, has already commenced in the month of July, and we again expect it to complete in 36 months. I may also add that in addition to the two Downtowns, the joint venture with Hines, which is Atrium Place, the first phase of 2 billion, we expect the OCs in the month of March, April next year, and the OC for the fourth tower, which is about 800,000, at the end of next year.
Sure. One question for Aakash. When do we expect the launch for next phase of Privana and also the project on the IREO land that you have acquired?
So, Privana, we are planning for this year end, the last quarter, and the IREO land that we had, again, the demand there is reasonably getting very high. It's now, as you know, it is the closest to the Golf Course Road, and bang opposite the Grand Hyatt, so there is already a kind of a luxe kind of a feel already created there. I feel that that should be well after the Q1 of next year, but I think you should see it next year for sure, and that's going to be a different product. It's definitely going to be in the luxury stable.
Sure. Thanks and all the best.
Thank you, Parvez.
Thank you. The next question is from Parikshit Kandpal, from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Am I audible?
Yes, sir.
Yeah. So my first question is to Mr. Tyagi. So now we have two very large launches coming up, and which will likely be successful, and we are all set to exceed our pre-sales guidance of 17-18 thousand crores, moving maybe, if I guesstimate, upwards of 25 thousand. So in light of this, how do you think will next year pan out, given such a very top-heavy base of pre-sales and large reliance on NCR market to grow from there on? So how do we envisage next year? And also, if you can touch upon your business development plan outside NCR so that the concentration risk reduces and we see more growth markets emerging for us, maybe in MMR. How do you see the business development pipeline there, given some large parcels are coming up for bidding or there?
Are you ready to write large checks for those kind of deals, like INR 1,000 crores or INR 2,000 crores, upwards of that?
The last part is the easiest answer. We will not, never be reckless on writing any checks for any geography, including NCR. That is very clear. Second, if I may say, semi-joking, semi-serious, you know, this entire thing about NCR concentration is a hardcore Mumbai-based analyst bias, which I've always maintained. You know, frankly, there are developers, very huge developers, with almost 95% plus sales in the MMR region, you know, who don't get asked this question that we get asked repeatedly. But yes, we are not apologetic at all about our NCR focus and NCR concentration. NCR shall continue to be the center of gravity of our entire launch pipeline. We will continue to expand in places like MMR, and in fact, our first launch should happen in Q4.
As we mentioned earlier, we have a significant growth line of pipeline in Chandigarh as well, and we'll continue to have, you know, one-off launches in places like Goa. But clearly, NCR will be the fulcrum of our entire DevCo strategy.
But Tri-city also.
Tri-city also is going. Tri-city is growing, Mumbai is growing, but NCR will be the fulcrum, and we don't anticipate any concentration risk. In fact, ironically, the way other developers are increasingly trying to buy land in NCR, they also don't foresee a concentration risk in NCR. Don't worry about NCR. NCR potentially is the, not only the country's, possibly going to be the world's largest metropolitan area in the next five years, and I think we must stay focused on that.
Any color on the pre-sales, I mean, given that this year is going to be phenomenal for us?
Look, I don't know, except for giving guidance once a year, we normally don't comment on the mid-quarter of pre-sales. But one thing I'd like to sort of, you know, clearly say to dash your hopes, it won't be 25,000 crores for sure. That much I can underwrite. It won't be that number at all, you know, frankly. We are especially after the strong, you know, pre-launch interest that Dahlias is sort of generating, very confident of 17,000 crores. Let's see where it eventually lands.
Privana will also add there, right? Fourth quarter, I mean, something coming in.
Let's see. Anyway, we are almost in fourth quarter now. January. So let's see.
So any EOI number on Dahlias? I mean, I know, I mean, conversions, still happening, but initially, like, for the units which are... So is it a single-phase project, I mean, in terms of opening up of sales or you have opened certain units? And also, if you can then touch upon how many EOIs you would have received, received. I mean, though conversion, you will get to know more towards the end, which you will disclose, but at least some color around how has been the response in terms of EOIs.
So response as with respect to EOIs has been good. As I said to you, I have a different approach to EOIs. Whilst everybody else does an EOI based on a piece of paper or maybe just some formality of a check, you know, we do a very strong EOI with almost 9% monies on the table. So we have a completely different approach, and you've seen it post Arbour. Even in our booking amounts, whilst the rest of the people do INR 5 lakh booking, we do INR 50 lakh, and now it's going to be INR 1 crore. So, you know, so one is that.
So therefore, we'd rather, and we very respectfully tell our channel partners and also our customers that: Look, this is the broad band, and should you be interested and should you be then, the EOI process only begins post that. So what I'm saying is, once I qualify it in three levels, and then we start this particular process. So when we report these numbers, we report and only tell you post that whole process, that if I give you a random EOI number, this forum is going to be shocked. So I don't want to go there. You know, and I'm, you know, again, I'm saying to you that I want to continue to be grounded with this. I just want to suss out the market properly.
I don't want to be reporting things which are untrue and unfair, but very, very strong kind of
Interest.
interest, and therefore, you know, to start with, yes, you will see those numbers. The first lot, as I said to you also, the numbers that I'm saying to you are post monies received. And I say to you again, post monies, 9% received, not even booking amount. So this is the first lot that has come in. I assured you all, including Saurabh, that it is not cheap. In no way it is cheap. It is, these are bare shells. We will never allow, the valuations of Dahlias or DLF 5 to come down, and that will continue to happen. So that is something that we'll work hard to, you know, to make sure that we are meeting expectations of our investors first, our owners, and then, of course, the rest of the country.
So it's a thing. And then the strategy is that, look, we want to. We have batched them in fifty each, and with each fifty, we are going to go up in terms of price points. So that's what our, that's what our plan is. I have been through the Camellias story. I have seen the ups and downs and the lows and highs. And, you know, may I remind this forum, in twenty twenty or twenty twenty-one, the first time that I got into these calls, you know, everybody had concerns about where Camellias is going to go and how are we even going to reach 40,000 rupees a sq ft and all that. So all I say is, look, DLF has a way of doing things.
We put lifestyle and services way ahead of our price points and customer comfort. So I think I'd rather continue to play that game and make sure that our present inventory is strongly embedded and has enough value. Everything else will stem from that. So if a Magnolia today sells at about INR 45 crores and Aralia is today at INR 35 crores, please understand where this is going to go.
So yeah, is that, is that good?
Yeah. And just one last question, sir. On this balance potential of Phase 5, and the site is about 24 million sq ft. I don't know how much has moved or launched already in that, because you club it in one single line. So is it right to assume now the base rate or base sales clearing price would be upwards of 60,000 for this portfolio now?
So, you know, as I think was asked earlier and commented upon, I think it's safe to assume that phase five will predominantly be the super luxury products only now in that sense, so you can make your own assumptions. But yes, predominantly, the phase five, the residual stock will be the super luxury projects.
Okay. Thank you, sir, and wish you happy Diwali. Those were my questions, and wish you all the best. Thank you.
Happy Diwali.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from Kunal Lakhan, from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Quickly on the approvals for the Mumbai project, you know, do you anticipate any delays because of the upcoming state elections? And also the status on Goa approvals. I believe that got delayed in Q2. So what's the status there?
Honestly, approvals are, I mean, without going into the specifics of any particular approvals, you know, the approvals for all these projects, Privana, the next phase, Goa and Mumbai, are all, you know, in advanced stages, frankly. I'm not sure whether the entire Mumbai-Maharashtra code of conduct has a bearing on that, because these are now fairly routine approvals, you know, none of them is like a policy approval. So at least Mumbai, currently, we do look strong to, you know, to go for a Q4, I mean, for approvals and the launch to happen in Q4, unless there's something completely unforeseen that happens.
Okay, understood. Secondly, on, again, like the business development, right, you know, so, we haven't seen much of, you know, land acquisition or project acquisition being done outside of, NCR market. Just wanted to understand, like, in terms of our priorities outside of NCR market, and also in terms of our, priorities for capital allocation. I remember, like, you know, a few years back, you used to talk about like, you know, the capital allocation priorities would be towards firstly, growth and then CapEx, and then secondly, thirdly rather, towards returning to shareholders, money to shareholders. So any change in the capital allocation priorities and also like-
The allocation principle remains the same, Kunal, which is broadly a split between shareholder return and growth CapEx. Growth CapEx is not just buying new lands, but it's also, you know, continuing to invest in our CapEx portfolio. I mean, while obviously the atrium and the three plazas are the immediate phase, but once they're complete, we still have large tracts of commercial land in the on the DLF side of the equation as well, not just Cyber City, which we will continue to invest in, and especially with the upcycle on the commercial piece.
You know, as far as the second point is concerned of where would we be looking at BD opportunities, so in all fairness, from a DevCo standpoint, as we have mentioned repeatedly in the past also, our focus continues to be NCR, but we have a very healthy interest in MMR, and we are waiting for our, how our first launch, you know... The first launch is like a test pilot. Let's see how it goes, and if we get hopefully an encouraging response here, you know, we will see what more we can do there. But clearly, beyond that, Chandigarh, we have a very strong, you know, land bank already on both the Panchkula side as well as the Mohali side of the equation, and I think that's enough to keep us busy for the next two years.
We are currently, honestly, not looking at, from a residential side, into acquiring any further land parcels in any new geographies beyond this. Yeah. Yeah.
But Tri-city and all are reasonably big.
Yes.
Is what we ... next market. In fact, just to let this forum know, we sold recently,
Excuse me, sir. Yeah.
Yeah? Hello?
Sir, we missed on that. I mean, your audio a little bit cut down. Can you please repeat it?
Akash.
Who, me or Mr. Tyagi? Aakash, Audrey, or Mr. Tyagi?
Aakash, sir. Aakash, sir.
Okay. What I was saying is that the Tri-City business is also reasonably big. Just to let this forum know that recently, one of the last, the Valley Gardens floors, which is the luxury floors that was sold, in the Valley project of ours in Panchkula, we have just sold one, the last one at about four crores. So there is also a very aspirational build-up to good properties in the Tri-City, and you know, we've got Pinjore and Mohali and all that. So that itself is a big, big business to follow. Then, of course, as Mr. Tyagi was saying about Mumbai and acquisitions there will happen post our launch here. And then, of course, NCR is where we are, you know, continuously...
In fact, Kunal, even the Mumbai project that we have, currently we are launching about a million sq ft. I think there, I mean, if we continue working assiduously with our local partners on, on, on expanding the reach of that project, I mean, that project, in all fairness, has the vision to potentially be, over time, a more than a five million sq ft project-
Yeah.
In that sense. So that's a pretty humongous project. Obviously, you know how long we have worked, so, I mean, in that sense. But, but I think over time, this is the five million plus sq ft vision that this project will eventually entail.
...Understood, sir. And last question is on, like, you know, this year, right? In terms of, like, new sales concentration, largely will be driven by Dahlias and the Privana phases, the two phases that one is launched and upcoming. But, you know, when I look at, like, say, twenty-six and beyond, and I understand, like, when you spoke about, like, you know, I mean, we'll never target, like, a 25,000 crore kind of a number, but, you know, incrementally, like, just growing this business from a scale of, say, 17,000 crores, you know, thereon, right? How should we look at phase five monetization year after year in terms of like, you know, how much area would you think you would be able to sell, like, you know, year after year?
Or for that matter, like, what is the, say, replacement, you know, for, say, 2026 or 2027, which can happen instead of The Dahlias. Some other project can, you know, contribute to sales, just to keep the momentum of sales growing from INR 17,000 crore, you know, and beyond.
Yeah. So, see, what Mr. Tyagi was saying, you know, whatever projections we are giving, please understand why we say what we say. It's also because unless margins make sense to us, we are going not in that treadmill kind of a game, you know? We will give you solid products, we will give you solid margins. This is what we work for. So, whilst everybody else, everybody's got their own agendas, and we respect everybody. But we are going to be doing what we are doing right now. Also, DLF 5, please keep it in a separate bucket, because that super luxury will sell by itself. There are certain valuations that we have to achieve there. So it'll- it's a, you know, three to four-year kind of a project.
It's now a continuum, you know? DLF 5, you can put in one bucket and the rest of the business. Gurgaon alone has, in the next year or two, two, another, or almost three luxury projects, like The Crest coming. So we are going to be occupied there as well. Then, of course, the Privana ecosystem, as you know, there's the four and hopefully five, whatever. All that is going to keep us busy there. Gurgaon is, or NCR is, something that has caught the fancy of most of the investors internationally. That we will continue to mine. You've not even. It's not even the tip of the iceberg thing right now. What you all need to understand is, while you are talking about, we don't mind the geography, the NCR geography, we mind the world.
So once all that is happening, that also will have a reasonable amount of interest coming in. And then, of course, you move on to the other geographies, as mentioned by Mr. Jaggi earlier to you all. So we are. That's how we will be able to take these numbers to where they are. But, that's it. I mean, I think we've got enough on our plate to think as to how to bring these to the floor, and then you guys can put the numbers to it.
Sure. Aakash, just one clarification on what you said. So Gurgaon next of Privana and phase five, you said three more projects. One is obviously, Gurgaon, Golf Course Extension, IRO. The other two would be?
We have a couple of group housing potential developments in the erstwhile DLF City of DLF one to four.
Understood. Understood.
Great locations.
Thank you so much.
Great locations.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Great.
Thank you.
Thank you so much, sir, and-
Thank you. The next question is from Pritesh Sheth from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on, largely on, I think margins and cash flows for the current quarter. You know, while we had a good revenue bookings this quarter, what drove that revenue in PNL? And we saw margins, at least the gross margins, going down from 56% to 44%. You know, it was just project specific or something to look at? And second, on cash flows, you know, collections were down. Just a seasonal thing, or, and how do you see that increasing over next, you know, next half?
So I'll answer the last question first, because that's something that point caught our attention as well. So I think that clearly the absence of a new launch in Q2 versus Q1 was largely responsible for that. Because what happens, Pritesh, is that when you launch a new product, typically in 30 days you collect 10%. So if it's a INR 500 crore launch, as we had in Privana last quarter, you collect about INR 500 crores in a 30-day cycle anyway. Last quarter was extraordinarily good also because we had the installments coming in from Privana One, Arbour, and Privana Two, which was and here, obviously, there was no new launch link. We anticipate comfortably to be a INR 2,500 crores plus collection machine for Q3, and hopefully an even higher number for Q4, you know.
This, by the way, this excludes One Midtown collection, because that is not consolidated, and that's now growing at a very strong clip as well, which is the reason why both GIC and us will be able to harvest a significant amount of our cash flow from One Midtown. That's one thing. Secondly, on the fifty-six versus forty-four and those margin pieces, you know, as you can see from the residual gross margin bar chart, from the launches that we have made, we are now comfortably in the 40% plus. I think with Dahlias baked in, you will see this number approaching our target number of the late 40s%, you know, frankly.
Which I think is maybe a, it's an arithmetical issue, that in some projects, which is notably One Midtown and potentially Mumbai, the sales, which is the denominator, is the combined, is the total pre-sales, and our share of profits is only 50% of it, you know, in that sense. So to that degree, you know, they do tend to pull down the weighted average margin ratio.
... But in most of our new projects, which are not Dahlias, we are targeting a 40% plus minus, and obviously, Dahlias would be a 70% plus minus, so that a weighted average of the late 40s% can be maintained going forward. I'd like to clarify one more thing, which I think came in our friend query, which is that this is the margin on the new projects. What about the reported margins and all? I mean, I'm very transparent that the reported margins still work on the sales made four years back and the provisions being done today, but unfortunately, the cost structure of today. So they're basically based on the sales made four years back, but the cost structure is today, which is for driving this entire 70-80 thousand growth sales machinery, plus supporting the RentCo in their construction efforts.
There is a certain degree of mismatch, which I think will unfortunately take 18-24 months to fully align. Because amongst the newer generation of projects, I think the first one that will come for revenue recognition will be Arbour, which should come in around the 2027 timeframe. There, you know, you would still see some degree of, well, obviously, I hopefully will keep on driving more cost optimization. But I think you will keep on not seeing as healthy reported numbers, as healthy you would see in terms of the embedded margins. I mean, I know reported numbers are important, but but I think it's also important that the two metrics under the revenue recognition that we have is really the new sales bookings, the embedded margin new sales bookings, and the free cash flow, that those are generated.
I think we'll try to not only, you know, focus on those, but we'll also try to ensure that we share as much information about those as we can, you know? Thank you. The rental business on the other hand, you know, is going extraordinarily strong in both the EBITDA growth, cash flow growth, and the PAT growth. Actually, the PAT growth in the RentCo business will be 20% plus on a sustained basis, Sriram. Yeah.
Sure. And just on, the revenue bump up that we saw this quarter, any specific project led to that? Like, we were at fourteen hundred crore or-
This is basically positions driven, you know, frankly, and plus, offline Kuldeep will tell you, but those multiple floor launches that we had over the last four years, you know. It depends on the OCs that come. So obviously, this quarter, a higher portion of OCs must have been received, and those resulted in a revenue bump up there. That's it. But Kuldeep will often give you the details of that 2,100 number.
Sure. And, the restructuring or amalgamation of several entities that you are planning, anything on the rationale side we need to know about, or, you know, it's just regular?
No. So I mean, the rationale is simplicity. I mean, obviously, like many people in this business, we had a, you know, we had a vast network of these landowning companies, and then there were complicated development and arrangement in the landowning companies and the holding company. And over time, we are just trying to cleanse those so that more and more of the licensed land holding comes directly in DLF or DHDL. And hence, you'll always see DLF and DHDL mergers being there. I mean, our target is that once the current slate of mergers is implemented fully, I think we'll be down to about 79 entities from a number which was almost five times of this six, seven years back. So I think...
I think our target remains that we'll eventually try to drive it, that number down to about a sub-50 entities on the DevCo side and between 10 to 12 entities on the RentCo side.
Sure. And one last for probably Aakash on Privana. You know, now we keep getting better in terms of location within that Privana ecosystem, and hence, the pricing would be, you know, higher than what it was earlier, or, you know, just, you know, as a product itself, since it's evolving, we would target a higher pricing. So what's-
No, no.
Your sense on that?
No, I think this company leaves a lot of money on the table, so I don't think we go with that. But, the product is evolving. The ecosystem's already doing well, very well established. In fact, what Mr. Tyagi is saying, in February, we will take you all there. You will see what you saw maybe three, four years back when we all came, and this time, you'll be very pleasantly surprised to see what, how that place has come out. It's really beautiful. But, the next phase is going to be a very. It's going to be a more evolved product than the last two. Therefore, the pricing will reflect that.
Sure. Okay, okay. That's, that's really helpful. Thank you. All the best, and Happy Diwali to all.
Happy Diwali. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ashok Tyagi for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, all of you for, you know, participating very actively. You know, I mean, obviously, if you have any offline queries or detailed financial queries, Kuldeep's there, and you can reach out to him, and he'll reach out to the concerned teams to be able to address those satisfactorily. You know, we will continue evolving the presentation as we keep on moving forward, and hopefully, you know, by the time you guys are here in February, we should be able to to be even more, you know, sort of discerning in terms of the, of making you understand our business. Both DevCo and RentCo continue to be extremely strong clip, frankly.
And I think really, I mean, Dahlias on the DevCo side and the downtown on the RentCo side, we are actually at the cusp of some very, very exciting new products now, which will really define DLF, you know, in the next few years. And I think financially, we'll continue to be strong and disciplined. And to whosoever asked that question, no, we are not going to keep on recklessly writing checks. So on that happy note, I shall again thank you, and thank you, sir. Wish you and your family-
Thank you.
Happy Diwali. Very happy Diwali.
Thank you very much, sir. On behalf of DLF Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now exit the meeting. Thank you.
Thank you.