Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to GAIL (India) Limited Q2 FY 23 earnings conference call hosted by YES Securities Limited. As a reminder, participant lines will be in the listen -only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nitin Tiwari from YES Securities Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Lizanne. Good day, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of YES Securities, I welcome everyone to GAIL (India) Limited's second quarter FY 2023 earnings call. We have the pleasure of having with us the senior management team of GAIL, led by the Director of Finance, Shri Rakesh Kumar Jain. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Jain for his opening remarks, which shall be followed by a question and answer session. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Mr. Nitin. Good afternoon to you and to all the investors and analyst community connected with this conference call for GAIL's earnings for Q2, H1 2022-23. The physical and financial performance for the quarter ended September 2022 is already with you, and the same has also been made available in the GAIL's website. As you are aware that there have been supply disruptions from GMTS under the contract from the end of May 2022, and GMTS has not delivered 13 numbers of scheduled LNG cargo till September 2022 during financial year 2023. So in total, 17 cargo still due, 13 in Q2, and still due 17.
Subsequently, GAIL has taken up various measures to maintain reliable and sustainable supplies to its downstream customers, LNG customers by reducing its own internal consumption, procurement of additional volume from the spot market, and imposing suitable curtailment of supply. Moving on to the financial highlights. GAIL achieved gross turnover of INR 38,440 crore in the current quarter, as against INR 37,536 crore in quarter 1 financial year 2022-23. There is a marginal increase by 2%, approximately 2%, mainly due to higher natural gas prices. This increase has been offset by the increase could have been more, but has been offset by decrease in LPG prices, which is approximately INR 12,000 per metric ton. This is for LPG prices and approximately INR 10,000 per metric ton for petrochemical prices.
Profit before tax for Q2 decreased to INR 1,876 crore in current quarter, as against INR 3,894 crore in Q1 financial year 2022-23. Actually this is down by 52%. In terms of amount, INR 2,018 crores, and this is mainly due to decrease in gas marketing spend, lower petrochemical and LHC price realization, increase in fuel expenses in natural gas transmission due to reallocation of domestic gas, 0.45 MMSCMD from gas transmission segment with effect from sixteenth August 2022 onward, which was partly offset by increase in other income, mainly, dividend income in this quarter, rupees five sixty-eight crore.
Profit after tax decreased to INR 1,370 crore as against INR 2,915 crore in quarter one of financial year 2022-23, and this is down by approximately 47%. On a half -yearly basis, GAIL achieved a turnover of INR 75,976 crore as against INR 38,829 crore in first half of last financial year, that is, 2021-22. This is an increase of approximately 96%, and this increase is mainly on account of increase in natural gas prices, both domestic and RLNG, higher price realization in petrochemicals and liquid hydrocarbon segment. There is a marginal increase in profit before tax, that is by 1% to INR 5,770 crores as against INR 5,736 crore in the corresponding quarter last year.
Profit after tax has remained almost flat, that is, INR 4452 crores for the half year, as against 4393 crore in the corresponding quarter last year. Coming back to the segmental performance for the current quarter as against the previous quarter, that is, Q2 financial year 2023 versus Q1 financial year 2023. Gas marketing in terms of volume stood at 92.54 MMSCMD in current quarter as against 100.84 MMSCMD in previous quarter. The decrease in volume is due to lower R-LNG sales and lower OPC. The natural gas transmission stood at 107.71 MMSCMD in current quarter, as against 109.47 MMSCMD in previous quarter. If we talk of capacity utilization, this is almost 52% capacity utilization.
Polymeric production stood at 95 TMT, as against 132 TMT in last quarter. The production has decreased due to lower availability of feedstock on account of supply disruptions from GAIL. LSP production stood at 228 TMT, as against 227 TMT in previous quarter. The capacity utilization was 63%. LPG transmission was 1,100 TMT, as against 1,055 TMT in previous quarter. The capacity utilization was at 115%. Now we'll pick up consolidated financials of Q2 versus Q1 financial year 2023. The consolidated turnover in current quarter stood at INR 3,867.4 crore versus INR 3,790.1 crore in previous quarter. This is also up approximately by 2%. The PBT in current quarter is INR 1,675 crore versus INR 4,230 crore in Q1 financial year 2023.
This is down by approximately 60%. The profit after tax is INR 1,315 crore versus INR 3,253 crore in Q1 financial year 2023. Again, this is down by approximately 60%. On half yearly basis, I talk about consolidated results. The consolidated turnover in H1 2023 stood at INR 76,575 crores versus INR 39,290 crore in previous corresponding period. This is up by approximately 95%. The profit before tax for financial year 2023 stood at INR 5,905 crore versus INR 6,268 crore in H1 2022. This is down by approximately 6%.
The PAT is INR 4568 crore in first half of current financial year that is 2022-23 versus INR 5021 crore in H1 of last year, that is 2021-22, down by 9%. Now our GAIL CGD business. GAIL is having infrastructure of 123 CNG stations and 2 lakh 27 DPNG connections during the financial year 2022-23, till September I'm talking. 3 new CNG stations and around 25,500 new DPNG connections were added. In the next two years, we have target to add around 100 new CNG stations and 2 lakh 50 thousand new DPNG connections. Now about GAIL Gas, there is another 100% subsidiary of GAIL called City Gas Distribution.
During the current quarter, the gas gross turnover stood at INR 2,716 crore as against INR 2,663 crore in Q1 financial year 2022-23. An increase of 2% mainly due to increase in average sales price. The profit before tax was reported at INR 101 crore in current quarter as against INR 97 crore in previous quarter. The profit after tax has declined marginally to INR 71 crore as against INR 72 crore in previous quarter. The physical volume during the quarter stood at 5.5 MMSCMD as against 6 MMSCMD. GAIL Gas, along with its JV subsidiaries, has infrastructure of 8 lakh DPNG connections and 348 CNG stations. During Q2 financial year 2022-23, seven new CNG stations and 11,104 new DPNG connections were added.
During April to September 2022, 9 new CNG stations and 3,248 new DPNG connections were added. In terms of capital expenditures, we will achieve capital expenditure of INR 3,967 crore during the first half of current financial year. This capital expenditure is mainly on pipelines, petrochemicals, CGD projects, operational CapEx, equity contribution and ANP. We have planned to spend approximately INR 7,500 crores in the current financial year on similar areas, pipelines, petrochemicals, CGD. This means we have already incurred more than 50% by the end of first half of the current financial year.
Project performance during this quarter, GAIL has commissioned Jamshedpur spur line, having length of 143 kilometers, Ranchi spur line having a length of 4.6 kilometers under the Pradhan Mantri Urja Ganga project on first September 2022. This will facilitate gas supplies shortly from grid to city gas distribution network of Jamshedpur and Ranchi. Now let me share with you about our acquisition of JBF Petrochemicals Limited. GAIL has been declared as a successful resolution applicant by the Committee of Creditors for acquiring JBF Petrochemicals Limited through corporate insolvency resolution process and received affirmative vote of 100% of the members of CoC by value, and GAIL's plan has been submitted to NCLT for approval. That's all from my side. Regarding the overall performance and project performance.
The management of the company is now available, and we'll be glad to clarify any questions that you may have. Now I hand over to you, Mr. Tiwari. Thank you.
Hello.
Should we open up for questions?
Yeah.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone wishing to ask a question, may please press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Prabal Singh from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you very much. Thanks for the opportunity. Am I audible to you, sir?
Yes, you are audible. A bit louder, please. It will help me.
This is better?
Yeah.
Okay.
Perfect.
Thank you for the opportunity. Three questions from my side. One, you obviously mentioned about the decrease in gas marketing spreads for this quarter. I just wanted to get, if you can, share a little bit about what kind of reduction you saw. Because if we look at the basic differential between spot LNG prices and Henry Hub, that decline doesn't quite sort of explain the extent of decline we have seen in our profits. Is there something we are missing? Is there a lag in terms of those prices? Or were there specific cargoes that were redirected in this quarter that has led to the decline in gas trading profits? That was my first question.
Yeah. You want to take one by one or should I answer them?
As you wish, sir. I can also take a third question.
I'll go ahead. There is no single reason for the reduction in gas marketing spread.
Okay.
First, if we compare with Q1 of this financial year, it is significant fall. Q1 of this financial year, we have seen a significant growth in the marketing spread because of the market condition we had at that point of time. Secondly, there was no supply disruption in Q1, and prices of LNG and RLNG was significantly higher. One thing that we have to, if we compare with Q1, certainly you will find a significant fall. Nevertheless, there is a fall. The reason for fall is, if we talk of in terms of normal circumstances, are two, three reasons which actually are contributing to this fall. First is, as I have shared in opening remarks that GMTS has stopped supply from May.
In last Q1, they supplied some cargoes, but from July onward, they have stopped supplying.
Sure.
This supply forms a significant portion. If we talk of our LNG of gas portfolio of GAIL, that is 20%. If we talk of overall portfolio, it is around 40%. If we talk of in terms of volume, it is around 9 MMSCMD, 8.5-9 MMSCMD. What GAIL did, GAIL was continuing to supply until we started making cuts to our customers from 16th of July. We gradually actually started cutting, but 16th of July we started cutting, and we brought down the fertilizer supplies to, you know, take-or-pay level.
Mm-hmm.
That is one thing which has reduced our marketing spread. Second, as a measure to balance sustainable operations, we also started applying these cuts to other customers at varying take-or-pay level, which varies 50%, 60%, 70%. In terms of volume, you have seen we have gone down, so that is one reason. Second, we as a company are committed to honor our contracts. Even though Gazprom was not supplying the volumes, but in order to fulfill our contractual commitment.
Mm-hmm.
We continue to source gas and supply it to our customers. You know the market, what is the market in Q2. Market was-
Right.
Significantly different than the price under the long-term contracts.
Sure.
That is the second reason which led to, you know, decrease in our marketing spread. These are the two major factors which has contributed to reduction in our marketing spread.
That's extremely helpful, sir. Thank you. The next question I had was with respect to the polymer output. Again, the lower supplies continues to sort of, you know, contribute to lower output from this segment. Just wanted your sense of how we should look at the second half of the year, sir. Is there any way that we can actually at least improve the output? Or given the ground realities right now, we can expect sort of somewhere in that 100-110 PMP range for at least the polymer business till our supply situation is resolved. How should we look at it, sir?
This segment is an area of concern for us as well. If you see, if we have reduced the supply cuts to our downstream customer, as a prudent operator, we also thought, let us also reduce our internal consumption to petrochemical plant.
Sure.
We are able to sustain pipeline operation and able to, you know, supply if you call, if I say between proportionate to almost all the users, including internal consumer. That's how we started reducing our production at Pata Petrochemicals. Second thing which will lead to reduction in Pata Petrochemicals is that when we don't have a long the sustainability of operations for a longer period on a spot gas is difficult. Actually curtailed our operations at Pata during second quarter of this financial year. Coming back to your expectations, how we will, you know, do in quarter two or maybe quarter three or coming back. Yes, we are reviewing the situation constantly. What we find that market has improved, at least for moment, significantly.
I'm talking of current moment because LNG price, when I am talking to you, it may have changed.
Right.
Market currently supports that we at least start our productions to a bit better level.
Mm-hmm.
If you talk in terms of, you know, 100-110, we also expect that we ramp up to that level, at least in this quarter. We are actually taking all measures, including sourcing of cheaper gas from domestic and international market, so that we have production at the desired level.
Okay. Got it. Last question, if I may, sir. On the JBF acquisition, what kind of timelines are we looking at? Is it too early in the process to be talking about numbers right now? What kind of investment will be required from our side, apart from whatever, you know, is available in terms of, you know, in terms of their debt?
JBF Petrochemicals, you know, it's a legal process now. The letter is with NCLT.
Mm-hmm.
Difficult to predict any legal process timeline. As a deal, I can expect that may take 3 months to maybe some more into 6 months time for conclusion of that process. Beyond that, we are parallelly working on various actions so that we are able to reduce our timeline for making this project operational. If everything goes fine, we expect that we will commission the plant within 24 months.
Mm-hmm.
It will start production. If I assume, I am only using the word assume.
Sure.
March 2023 is the timeline when we actually get this all legal processes cleared. From there you can assume that two years will be sufficient to do this.
Got it. Somewhere in FY 26 we start operations. Give or take a few months, sir.
Not 2026, 2025.
Okay. Got it, sir.
Coming back to your question with respect to investment. We expect that around INR 2,000 crore, INR 1,800-INR 2,000 crore. This is actually an estimate we made at the time when we were working for this project. This actual will be maybe significantly less around that, the investment which will help enable us to make this plant operational.
Got it, sir. Thank you so much for taking the time to give such detailed answers to us. Appreciate it. Have a nice day, sir. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in this conference, we request you to limit your questions to two per participant only. The next question is from the line of Mayank Maheshwari from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the call. Just a few follow-ups on the petrochemical side, as well as how you are kind of managing the gas trading side. Can you just give us out of the 8.5-9 MMSCMD, how much volume that you got impacted? How much of that you had to make up by sourcing LNG on a spot basis? How much were you able to kind of reduce your volumes towards the petrochemical plant? That's my first question.
Okay. On an average basis, we are not receiving 8.5-9 million gas from Gazprom. I mean LNG. Okay? We have been able to reduce some around 2.7 to fertilizer plants, around similar levels to other customers. Then depending on the time, because we ran the Pata plant at full capacity, then we ramped down to 34, 30, 40%. It is varying for Pata plant. We reduced around 3 MMSCMD for Pata plant if we talk on average basis for last 1-2 months. That's how we actually mitigated our shortfall from Gazprom. But this has happened not on a day. Actually, this has happened on different point of time.
Like I said, we curtailed supply of fertilizer plant from 16th July. Till that time we were supplying full. For those intermittent period, we sourced LNG cargos.
Numbers can you give? Around 1.5 cargoes.
Around 1.5 cargoes per quarter.
In this quarter?
In this quarter, around one and a half cargo we sourced from international market to mitigate the shortfall, even after, you know, doing all these, taking all these measures.
Sir, is that a number that you will have to now source regularly for the next few quarters?
Actually, this situation I am telling, yes, we require LNG. We may have to source, you know, maybe 1-2 cargo per quarter. This situation is so dynamic, and there are 2-3 factors which arise that. First is that whether to source LNG, because we are significantly sourcing gas now from domestic market also including IGL. To that extent we source. Second, we don't know, sometimes customers also goes for shutdown, that enables us not to source the gas. Yes, still we may require to source the gas. The numbers will be difficult to, you know, say whether it will be 1 cargo or 2 cargo. Certainly we will be requiring some gas from international market, LNG.
Got it, sir. My second question was more related on the petrochemical side, both in terms of the strategy and the thinking process around the JBF acquisition, as well as when you talked about the petrochemical current operations. When you are kind of thinking about the current prices for petrochemicals, at what level of LNG are you comfortable to ramp that utilization rates up? Because I'm just trying to think, you are trying to maximize the volume per molecule. Where are you kind of seeing the level at which you can kind of see higher profitability on the spot LNG price basis?
First I will answer JBF. Look here, GAIL is in business of petrochemicals since 1999. Almost we are there for 23 years, and we have been very successful as far as the production and marketing is concerned. There is a good amount of customer base and lot of satisfaction among the customers. We thought we should leverage our ability to this kind of projects, and that's how we chosen to acquire this project. This is actually in terms of synergy with our business and also if you say for diversification little bit. This is our thinking about, you know, JBF. What was your second part of this question?
Yes, sir. I was just thinking more from a perspective of the existing petrochemical capacity itself. How are you kind of thinking about at what levels of LNG will you be comfortable in ramping the utilization rate?
Yeah. Yeah, got it. It is difficult to say what are the petrochemical price, because the sustainable level are two factors. One is, you know, what is the market price of petrochemical. It is also significantly changing from time to time. We have seen even in this year, INR 1.25 lakh, INR 1.27 lakh. We are now seeing around the level of INR 1.15 lakh. This is one factor which determines, you know, the level at which we will be able to sustain. If I give you any number, which actually will be depending on the prices.
At least today you are comfortable to ramp it up. That's the way we should think about.
No. Today we are operating it because it's two things. Yes, we are comfortable because we source the gas from domestic market, and being a portfolio holder, we are able to source gas for our petrochemical plant. Yes, we are comfortable up to certain level, because if more gas is available, we'll ramp up, but we are still not ramping up to a full capacity.
Got it, sir. Thank you. Thank you for the detailed answers.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sabri Hazarika from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. I have two questions. Firstly, as of today, what is the petrochemical utilization? Is it operating at 40%-45% or it's different from that?
Yes, sir, it's 44%.
It is at around 40% right now, right?
Yeah.
Okay, sir. Second question is relating to I think I missed out when you spoke in the opening remarks regarding the diversion of your internal consumption gas to the CGD sector, I guess. What exactly was the dynamics? How much were you, like, consuming internally, and how much of it was diverted to CGD sector? Can it happen going forward again because CGD demand is growing? Could there be, like, more diversion to this CGD mix? That's my second question.
With effect from August 16, our allocation for internal consumption for use as a fuel gas for HVJ pipeline has been reduced by 0.45 MMSCMD. In order to supply or take up the requirement of CGD. That's the situation. What was the second part of your question?
This is out of how much? 0.45-
1.55 was total allocation, has been reduced to 1.10.
Okay. Going ahead, if the CGD demand is going up, say second, third, fourth quarter, it goes even further. Since we don't have that much of APM gas, is there a possibility that this remaining 1.1 will also go down to zero?
Look here, anything can happen. It is not correct on my part to speculate anything, because there are some domestic gas available which can also come up to the system, which are not currently coming up because of the lack of connectivity with the pipeline. It depends on dynamics. There may be possibility. I'm not denying, but I cannot say anything.
Right. Just a follow-up on this, that your average tariff realization has actually gone up during Q2 versus Q1. So was it some sort of a pass-through of this or is it like a natural increase?
No, no. It's not a pass-through. You see that our volumes are gradually increasing on Jagdishpur-Haldia Pipeline.
Right. Right. Right.
Jagdishpur-Haldia pipeline, even with phase 1 tariff, is significantly higher than any of the pipeline's tariff. When the volume supply is increasing to Jagdishpur-Haldia pipeline, it will lead to increase in weighted average tariff realization. It is not due to any increase of, you know, pass on of fuel consumption and all that benefit we will be getting subsequently when PNGRB revises the tariff, but currently it is not reflected.
Right. Right. Your transmission volumes have also not fallen that much considering the fall in marketing volumes. Why this deviation?
There are certainly the other suppliers have supplied to consumers using our pipeline because they continue to supply. The disruption is in our supply side, not on the supply side shipper. Had that not been there, our volume would have been under 17.
Right. You are saying some other sources have made up for what has been the?
Not made up. Let me put it different way. Because our supply disruptions are there from upstream, it has gone down by 8 million. Others continue to supply because there is no such challenge, at least to our knowledge, with other suppliers.
Right, sir. Fair enough. Thank you so much and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Varatharajan from Antique Stock Broking Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for taking my question, sir. Couple of questions. One follow-up of the de-allocation of domestic gas for pipeline operations. What is the gas which is filling in the void at this point in time? Is it like an LNG or some other source? You were saying that whenever the tariff revision happens, it will get compensated. When do you expect that to happen?
Sorry, your voice was not very clear to me. Pardon me, just repeat it.
One second. Is it better now?
Sorry to interrupt. Mr. Varatharajan, can you use the handset mode while speaking and not the speaker phone?
Is this better?
Yeah.
My question was on the de-allocation of domestic gas. What is the gas which is filling in for the de-allocated one? Is it LNG at this point in time?
It's RLNG.
Okay. It is likely to remain RLNG or do you think you can, you'll be able to bring in some other source?
It is likely to be RLNG unless we are able to source some market-driven price gas from domestic sources. Till that time it is RLNG.
On the tariff part you mentioned, when the tariff revision get compensated, when do you think that is likely to happen?
Actually, you see in terms of tariff regulations, the fuel cost is passed through.
Yeah.
The tariff revision, because this is pertaining to HVJ, tariff was last revised in June 2019. In terms of tariff order, it is supposed to be revised now. We are in the process of submitting the tariff to PNGRB, and we expect them to take, normally they take three to six months. We expect that to be available maybe next calendar beginning calendar year or maybe financial year.
Fair enough, sir. My second question was on the CNG volume that you know you sold as part of GAIL Gas as well as your standalone entity.
Sorry, once again. It was not CNG.
You were talking about GAIL Gas volume of 5.5 MMSCMD, out of which how much was CNG?
Sorry, I don't have readily available answer what is the CNG, but we can offline answer you.
Fair enough, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kirtan Mehta from BOB Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for this opportunity. You referred about sort of resorting to additional sourcing from domestic market, including IGL. What sort of quantum are you sourcing from this?
Let me answer you this way, that it cannot be a certain quantum because it's based on first availability at IGL, how much gas is available at IGL. In recent past, we have sourced a good amount of R-LNG or gas, maybe 25-30 million during this last one month only.
INR 25 million-INR 30 million. Could you clarify the units, sir?
Unit means totality. I'm not talking, U, MMSCMD. I am talking in terms of quantum.
Right, sir. In terms of the CapEx plan for the H2, which are the key pipelines which will get commissioned during the second half of the year?
The pipeline and primarily Jagdishpur-Haldia pipeline, some of the legs of Jagdishpur-Haldia pipeline will be commissioned. Dhamra-Angul. Majorly Dhamra-Angul.
Right. From the CapEx portion, which are the other major deliverables which would come through in the second half of the year?
It is only pipeline, mainly on pipeline only this year.
Fine, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bang Equities. Please go ahead.
Thank you and good evening. The first thought, if you look at your gas transmission segment, is there any loss you are booking in any of the sections already commissioned in JHBDPL? When do you expect the JHBDPL project to start generating a bit positive? Hello?
JHBDPL tariff, it is not negative because you see, let me give total perspective about JHBDPL. JHBDPL pipeline, we envisage a CapEx of around INR 15,000 crore. If we consider net of grant, I'm giving around INR 10,000 crore. Currently, the tariff for JHBDPL has been worked out by PNGRB based on almost INR 1,800 crore. If we talk of net of grant, around INR 1,500 crore or so. That tariff is 65 rupees or almost 65 rupees per MMBTU. The tariff which has been notified by PNGRB is only for phase one. Based on the capital expenditure net of grant is around INR 1,500 crore. If we see that way, then we are significantly in a good position. We are not negative, we are positive.
The CapEx we have already incurred, which is for the phase two and beyond. That tariff may come anytime from now, and that will be determined based on time value of money, since that has not yet been given by PNGRB, though we have incurred the CapEx, if you see that way. That tariff will be available to us in coming time, maybe next year. It's not even negative if we consider those CapEx. If we consider total CapEx without considering commensurate tariff, certainly you can say we may be negative, but we are not because that tariff has to come considering the CapEx incurred in prior period, maybe in next year.
If you were just to take this discussion further, when the entire JHBDPL is in operation, when do you expect that and, what is the kind of, you know, volume you can handle, say from FY 2024 or 2025? What is the kind of, you know, ballpark, incremental EBIT, we should expect, say, per ACM or, you know, in rupees gross? If you can give us some sense of that would be useful.
Actually I don't have really EBIT available. But yes, I can to give two things, is that this pipeline will be almost, this is 16 MMSCMD pipeline, and we also got it expanded to 23 million if we consider, you know, Dhamra and Haldia. This pipeline will be almost fully utilized if we talk of 2 years from today. Because we have anchor customer available for this pipeline, and this will be, we will be able to utilize. As we convert into PNGRB regulation and pipeline, even if we utilize 75%, we will be having 12% post-tax return.
Okay. The second thought is on the gas marketing, we heard that you had to buy spot gas at about $40. Have you incurred any loss on any lot of gas you have procured from the spot markets in the last quarter? What is the current profitability run rate for gas trading segment based on the current entry hub and spot prices?
I did not say that we bought at $40. I don't know where from you heard.
It is press news. It is a press report, yeah.
No, I don't know what press report. We have purchased LNG from spot market. I said one and a half cargo last quarter we purchased, and we are likely to purchase similar quantum in next quarter. Since this sourcing we are doing in order to fulfill our commitments in the downstream market. The loss or the figure you are trying to know that what kind of impact we may have, the impact will be at what price we are able to source because it's so dynamic. Nowadays the LNG in international market is available $21-$25 ranging depending at what time you go to market. The loss will be based on that. If suppose it further comes down, there may not be loss.
If it goes up, there may be loss. It is very difficult to quantify, but we only will buy to fulfill our commitments in the downstream market and that, to the ballpark number of 1.5 cargo per quarter.
Okay. Thank you, Ji. I will come back in the queue.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Maulik Patel from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, do you have anything to share with this Kirit Parikh Committee, which the government has formed?
Sorry to interrupt. Mr. Patel, we're not able to hear you clearly.
Yeah. Am I audible now?
Sir, slightly. Can you use a handset mode while speaking?
Yeah, I'm in handset mode.
Sir, because your audio is not clear.
I will just try to speak a little louder. Sir, any update you have with respect to the Kirit Parikh Committee?
No, we don't have any update. We are also waiting like you.
Okay. Sir, in case of the government or the Kirit Parikh committee reduce the APM gas price from the current level of $8.56, you will see significant benefit in your transmission and also on your LPG business, right? Is the system correct?
Yeah, actually not on transmission business, because as I shared, it's more or less pass through. Yeah, on LPG, we will be benefited.
You will benefit, you know. As you mentioned earlier also in with earlier questions, that the tariff of the pipelines are likely to come up. What we understand that PNGRB is, you know, busy analyzing the changes in the tariff framework. When that likely to come? Next couple of months, is it possible that the new tariff framework will come?
I am also guessing like you.
Mm-hmm.
Based on my meeting and understanding from them, the changes in tariff regulation may come this month.
This month. Okay. Got it, sir. Sir, last question. With respect to the demand perspective, you mentioned that the spot LNG has now come down to $20-$25 per MMBTU, right? It was very high in the previous months. Do you see improvement in demand from the customers or particularly from the refining customers, which has switched back to the liquid in the last couple of months?
Certainly. Our market is a price-sensitive market. Any difference in the price will certainly bring at least new demand. Though even existing demand may also increase, but certainly it enables us to bring new demand.
At what level do you expect the refinery segment to come back to the gas or the LNG market? What price?
I cannot say about it. For refinery, even this current price which we say are slightly softer prices, it's not making sense what I understand for the refinery sector. For any process plant, it takes time to plan to switch over from one fuel to another fuel. Whereas the current phenomena needs to be seen how long it continues.
Sir, the last question. When do you expect this breakwater facility at Dabhol to commission, to be completed?
We expect next year terminal to full whether terminal. Completely it will be full. This is the last.
So you-
Season, this was the last season when we could not have the advantage of having full weather. March 2024 is sort of timeline.
Okay. Sir, what's the progress on the Dhamra where you have the-
Mr. Patel, may we request that you return to the question queue?
Sure. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kirshan Mundra from Antique Research. Please go ahead.
Question from my end. Sir, there is some 12 MMSCMD of high pressure, high temperature gas from RIL that is supposed to come for bidding. Sir, would you be looking to bid aggressively on that given that your gas volumes are not coming in, number one? Number two, will you also be bidding, let us say, on behalf of smaller CGD companies, because they may find it difficult to bid on their own?
Right. Second portion, I will reply first. We, unless somebody approaches us, how can I bid on others' behalf? As a marketer, certainly I will bid. On the, if I have to bid on somebody's behalf, they have to come to me, and we can always look for that. Coming back to first question, yes, as a major gas marketer of the company, we always look for sourcing the gas at a competitive price which is acceptable to domestic customers. We'll certainly do that.
Okay. Okay.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prabal Sen from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity, sir. The first question was 1-1.5 cargoes that we have got.
Sorry, Mr. Prabal Sen, we're not able to hear you.
Yeah. Is it better now?
Yeah, much better. Thank you.
Yeah, thanks. This 1-1.5 cargoes that we have you know sourced. The end prices for this cargoes would either have been oil linked or gas linked. Is it fair to understand that these cargoes being procured from the spot would have been a loss-making proposition? Is that the right understanding?
Actually, yes. If you really see only financials, you can say so. It's not because of that we are buying. No, no entrepreneur will do that. It is to fulfill our commitment. Because of disruptions in gas flow supply, we are sourcing the gas to only fulfill those shortfalls which are required to fulfill our contractual commitment. It varies depending on the shortfalls we have, and in order to meet that shortfall, we will be certainly sourcing. To the extent there is a difference in the long-term prices and the price at which we source, there will be profit or loss.
Understood, sir. Just a follow-up on this. We said we had cut 2.7 to fertilizer and 2.7 to other customers. Which means, this 5.4 is not part of take-or-pay. We are okay cutting it without having any, you know, payment that needs to be paid, made from our side for cutting this 5.4. Is that the right understanding?
Yeah, it's the right understanding. Rather, if you have gone through the contract, there is a level below take or pay. That is supply or pay. We are not operating for major customers with supply or pay. There is no question of any penalty at take or pay level. That is our contractual commitment.
Okay. Just one last question, sir. In terms of volume ramp up for Urja Ganga, you know, in terms of fertilizer plants, what is the status? Overall, next couple of years, how do you see volume being ramped up in the Urja Ganga pipeline? If you can give an MMSCMD number, it should be helpful.
Urja Ganga now. There are four fertilizer plants. Matix has already been running since last more than a year, and Gorakhpur has got commissioned more than six months ago. Barauni, Sindri are almost on the verge of getting commissioned. They will be expecting commissioning in December. With this, we have four fertilizer plants almost now ramped up. If we add up all the fertilizer volumes, they will be around 7.5 MMSCMD of RLNG, plus other smaller customers and CGD players will make it finally by the next financial year in the range of 9-10 MMSCMD.
Thank you.
Thank you. Gentlemen, that was our last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.
Thank you very much. I think we were able to answer most of the questions. One question which I said I will be answering offline if asked was whether the question asked was what is the CNG sales as a part of total sales by GAIL Gas. Out of almost 5.5 MMSCMD CNG sales by GAIL Gas. That question was unanswered. I think we were able to answer most of the questions. If any of the participants has got some more questions which they could not ask or they may have, they can contact our investor relations team. We'll be happy to answer those questions. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Yes Securities Limited, that concludes this conference call. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.