GAIL (India) Limited (NSE:GAIL)
India flag India · Delayed Price · Currency is INR
166.68
+1.07 (0.65%)
Apr 27, 2026, 11:23 AM IST
← View all transcripts

Q4 21/22

May 30, 2022

Amit Rustagi
Equity Analyst, UBS Securities India

In India, covering energy and APAC refining sector. It's my pleasure to now welcome the GAIL management team led by Shri Manoj Jainji, Chairman and Managing Director, Shri RK Jainji, Director Finance, Shri Sumit Kishoreji, ED Marketing, and Mr. Shashi Menon, ED Finance. Though GAIL management doesn't require an introduction, I would like to briefly introduce Shri Manoj Jainji and Shri RK Jainji. Mr. Manoj Jain, a mechanical engineering graduate and an MBA in operations management, possesses rich and diverse experience encompassing more than 36 years with GAIL in the areas of business development, projects, O&M, petrochemicals, pipeline integrity management and marketing, which has allowed him to gain insights and knowledge across multiple business units and functional areas. Mr. Manoj Jain is also currently Chairman of GAIL Global (USA) Inc., GAIL Global (USA) LNG LLC, Mahanagar Gas Limited, Brahmaputra Cracker and Polymer Limited, and GAIL Gas Limited.

He is also one of the directors on the board of Petronet LNG Limited. Mr. Rakesh Kumar Jain is a cost and management accountant by profession. He has rich and varied experience of around 30 years of working in oil and gas sector and regulatory. Prior to his appointment as Director of Finance, Shri Jain held the position of Executive Director F&A, HOD in GAIL. Additionally, he holds the position of director in Indraprastha Gas Limited, GAIL Gas Limited, GAIL Global (USA) Inc., GAIL Global (USA) LNG LLC, Bhagyanagar Gas Limited, and Bengal Gas Company Limited. Earlier, he was on the board of Ratnagiri Gas and Power Private Limited as well. I would also like to express my gratitude to the entire GAIL team for working round the clock during the pandemic to maintain uninterrupted and safe transmission of natural gas and LPG supplies to the crucial downstream utilities.

Thanks to the dedication of its staff for selflessly working at the front lines to ensure that there is no supply disruption. I would also like to appreciate GAIL's management for driving GAIL through challenges of the pandemic and recovering swiftly to report highest ever consolidated EBITDA and profit after tax during financial year 2021, 2022. Obviously, you will hear more from the management what drove this performance. Also, I would like to congratulate GAIL management for paying record dividends to its shareholders and performing two consecutive share buybacks, back-to-back. Now I would like to hand over the proceedings to Shri Manoj Jainji for his opening comments. Thank you, sir.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Thank you, Mr. Amit. My dear friends from investors and analysts community, Mr. Amit, my colleagues, a very good afternoon to all of you and a warm welcome to GAIL's Investor Analyst Meet 2022. It's such a wonderful feeling to see you all in person. We are thankful to all of you for taking out time to attend this meet. Last time, I think, we had this meeting in 2019, and last two meets were through online systems only due to this pandemic, but now we are back, and we can meet each other freely. The results for the quarter and the year ending 31st March 2022 have been declared on 27th of May 2022. I take pleasure to state that during FY 2022, GAIL has achieved highest ever yearly financial results on all the three parameters.

That is turnover, PBT, and profit after tax. For FY 2022, GAIL achieved gross turnover of INR 91,426 crore, an increase of 62% over previous year. Profit before tax stood at INR 13,590 crores, registering a growth of 113% over previous year. Further, profit after tax jumped 112% to INR 10,364 crores. This is the first time that our PAT has surpassed the five-digit figure of INR 10,000 crores. The robust performance is primarily driven by better physical performance in natural gas marketing and transmission segment, and better price realizations across all segment.

As Mr. Amit has already pointed out, this is largely due to the team GAIL, which has ensured that the volumes are flowing through all the times, even during the last year beginning, when the pandemic again came back, and also in January this year when the third wave came, all our plants were running uninterruptedly, and there was not a single disruption of any of the performance at any of the plant. We have been able to supply PNG as well as LPG, as well as petrochemical to all our consumers without any failure. On a consolidated basis, the GAIL clocked a turnover of INR 92,636 crores in FY 2022 versus INR 57,208 crore in previous year, up by 62%.

The PBT jumped 100% in FY 2022 to INR 15,464 crores, whereas profit after tax increased to INR 12,256 crores, up by 100%. During the year, company has declared an interim dividend of INR 9 per share, amounting to INR 3,996 crores. The board has recommended a final dividend of INR 1 per share, subject to approval of shareholders on paid-up equity, making the total dividend for the year to INR 10 per share. This is the highest ever dividend paid by the company. In absolute terms, we will be paying highest dividend of INR 4,440 crores for FY 2022. GAIL has also announced buyback of around 5.7 crore shares at the rate of INR 190 per share.

The total CapEx for FY 2022 is INR 7,700 crores, mainly on pipelines, petrochemical, CGD projects, operational CapEx, equity contribution and E&P. In the next three years, the total CapEx is expected to be around INR 30,000 crore, mainly on pipelines, petrochemical, CGD, operational CapEx, equity contribution and E&P, and also some of the renewables. GAIL has LNG portfolio of over 14 million tons and diversity in supply sources and price indices. The company is well poised to cater to the needs of the customer and actively contribute towards the national goal of a gas-based economy. The company is also tying up new gas sources to meet the emerging gas demand in the domestic market, as well as to maintain its international portfolio.

Company has also embarked upon alternative energies like green hydrogen, renewables and biofuel projects which are of national importance and would likely provide a transition to the future. I'll not take much time with the detailed analysis, as the same will be covered by the presentations of our ED Finance and ED Marketing, wherein they will be giving you the insights about the various parameters. Thank you very much once again, and joining in line numbers. Thank you.

Shashi Menon
Executive Director of Finance and Head of Finance and Accounts, GAIL

Can we have the presentation? Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much for sparing your time for this analyst meet. I understand you have been shuttling between two locations. We have a small presentation for you. It's on?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Yeah.

Shashi Menon
Executive Director of Finance and Head of Finance and Accounts, GAIL

Yeah, I think you'll have to change the slides. Yeah.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

I need to go back to the first slide.

Shashi Menon
Executive Director of Finance and Head of Finance and Accounts, GAIL

Safe harbor statement. Now I can get back to enhancing quality of life through clean energy and beyond. This is our mission. Our vision is be the leader in natural gas value chain and beyond with global presence, creating value for stakeholders with environmental responsibility. This is the overview of how the presentation will flow. These are our major business verticals. Gas transmission and marketing, over 14,385 kilometers of gas network and growing. Long term portfolio of up to 14 MMTPA. Petrochemicals, 15% domestic market share. Capacity of 800 KTA at Pata and 280 KTA at BCPL. LPG and liquid hydrocarbons, we have five processing plants, 1.4 MMTPA of capacity, 4.55 MMTPA of LPG transmission capacity. E&P, we have participated in 12 blocks, presence in U.S. and Myanmar.

Renewables, we have 118 MW of wind power capacity, 13.8 MW of solar power capacity. Our city gas distribution presences, we have 67 GAs out of 295 GAs through our subsidiaries, GAIL Gas, Bengal Gas, TNGCL and eight CGD JVs. Next. This is our global presence. We have, as you already know, presence in U.S.A, Egypt, Singapore, Myanmar, China, and we also have presence in Indian energy office of Russia. This is our sustainable development initiative. GAIL embarked upon the journey of adopting GreenCo rating. In the last two years, five GAIL sites have achieved GreenCo rating. GAIL Vijaypur, Gandhar, Vaghodia and VSPL pipeline having attained the GreenCo Silver rating.

GAIL Pata has been rated Gold category under GreenCo rating system and an additional rooftop solar PV plant of 2.64 megawatts capacity is underway at GAIL Pata plant. GAIL has commissioned a heat recovery steam generator, HRSG, plant at GAIL Vijaypur for waste heat recovery. GAIL is included in the FTSE4Good Index Series for the fifth time in a row, affirming the company's strong commitments towards ESG practices in oil and gas sector. GAIL is currently in process of building India's largest green hydrogen plant and has undertaken a pilot project to analyze the feasibility of HCNG. This is the shareholder pattern of GAIL, which you already know. As on 31 March, the President of India is holding his 51.45%, and the rest of the holdings you already know.

GAIL board approved buyback of INR 5.7 crore shares at price of 190 per share, aggregating to INR 1,083 crore on 31st March 2022. During FY 2021-2022, GAIL paid interim dividend of 90% of paid-up capital. GAIL board declared final dividend at the rate of INR 1 per equity share in its board meeting held on 27th May, subject to approval of shareholders. This is a snapshot of our corporate social responsibility, embodied under GAIL Hriday umbrella. GAIL has achieved spend of INR 203 crore. That is 3% against a mandatory 2%. Some of our flagship initiatives in CSR are as listed. GAIL Ujjwal, focused on education. GAIL Kaushal, skill initiatives. GAIL Arogya, health and sanitary initiatives, and other focus areas.

Especially in COVID, we spent about INR 87 crores through contributions to PM CARES Fund, PSA plants, oxygen concentration regulators, et cetera. Performance highlights. Major highlights for FY 2021-2022. GAIL annual report and financial statements for the year 2021 has won Gold Shield in ICAI Award for Excellence in Financial Reporting for 2021. Received nil comments from CAG for accounts of financial year 2021, twelfth year in a row. Credit rating stands at domestic AAA, international Baa3 with stable outlook from Moody's. BBB- with negative outlook, which is equivalent to sovereign rating of India. During FY 2021-2022, GAIL paid interim dividend of the rate of 90% of paid-up capital. Further, GAIL board declared final dividend of INR 1, as I shared earlier.

GAIL retired high cost loan by exercising call option in the bond series 215, which was issued at 8.3%, and an amount of INR 500 crore was prepaid. INR 500 crore was repaid, prepaid. Tax refund of INR 200 crore put into Vivad Se Vishwas was received by GAIL, with 18 AYs out of total 21 AYs reached final settlement under the scheme. GAIL board approved buyback of INR 5.7 crore shares at the price of INR 190 per share, aggregating INR 2,083 crore. Highlights. Highest ever LPG transmission of 4.199 MMTPA achieved in 2021-2022, surpassing the previous highest of 4.163 MMTPA in the last financial year. Both VSPL and JLPL have recorded the highest ever LPG transmission individually.

GAIL has successfully commissioned India's first project for blending hydrogen in city gas station on 31 January 2022. GAIL board accorded approval of setting up 10 MW electrolyzer for producing green hydrogen at a project cost of INR 231 crore. Order for 4.3 TPD PEM electrolyzer for green hydrogen project has been placed on Tecnimont Private Limited on 11 May 2022. GAIL chartered another LNG vessel, Grace Emilia. Vessel delivered to GAIL on 14 March 2022 for initial period of five years at a competitive charter rate. Successfully obtained approval from Competition Commission of India for acquiring IL&FS Group 26% equity stake in OTPC, ONGC Tripura Power Company, and completed acquisition of the same on 4 January 2022. GeM portal.

Procurement through GeM portal has reached a record of INR 2,593 crores against MOU target of INR 1,335 crores. These are of our physical performance both in the. If you look to the left, gas volume, that is gas transmission, gas marketing stood at 111 MMSCMD compared to 104 last financial. Trading gas marketing is at 96 compared to 89. Gas marketing mix is to your right. APM stands at 43%. Then we have RLNG at 21%, spot 9%, midterm 16%, and overseas around 10%. Similar is the gas transmission mix. Petrochemical sales stood at 790 TMT FY 2022 compared to 871 last financial.

Liquid hydrocarbon sales, 1,004 TMT compared to 1,138 in the last financial. LPG transmission at stable levels of 4,199 TMT. Next slide, please. This is the profile of the natural gas sector sales. That is compared to FY 2021 compared to FY 2022. If you took a look at the left, out of a total sales of 89.2 MMSCMD last year, almost 38% went to the fertilizers, 14% to power, 22% to CGD, 6% to others, overseas, and 19% others. Others cover steel, refinery, sponge iron, petrochemicals, et cetera. This slide also shows the domestic and the RLNG profile. The green is the RLNG. That is almost 42% and 46% in this year. Previously. One slide back. Yeah.

Thank you. Financial, this is the standalone financial performance first ever. That is FY 2022 turnover at INR 91,426 crore. Gross margins INR 15,876 crore. We have profit before tax of INR 13,590 crore. Profit after tax of INR 10,364 crore. This is a snapshot of the balance sheet. Capital employed INR 60,610 crore. Net worth of INR 49,920 crore, and loan outstanding of INR 5,900 crore. Key financial ratios. PAT to net worth 21%. Return on capital employed is at 20%. Net equity at an impressive 0.15. Share price ₹156. Earning per share is at ₹23. Market capitalization INR 69,137 crore. This is the consolidated financial performance. Turnover INR 92,636 crore. Gross margin INR 18,086 crore.

We have a profit before tax of INR 15,464 crore, and a profit after tax of INR 12,256 crore. This is the revenue reconciliation. I will not read out the figures. This will be available to you also. This is the revenue reconciliation on a consolidated basis, FY 2022. PAT, if you come here, PAT reconciliation is the, as shown in the slide, for the INR 12,256 crore. Profit after tax. Capital, this is the capital expenditure, FY 2022 and the projections for FY 2023, INR 7,700 crores. This financial FY 2022, 54% towards the pipeline projects. Equity participation 12%, operating CapEx 21%, and the rest as shown in the slide. Almost similar performance next year with major CapEx happening in the pipeline sector.

We can come to the next slide. Actual CapEx and capital commitments. These are the different major projects that we have in hand. I'll just run through the expected completion date. Dhamra-Angul, December 2022. Dobhi-Durgapur, 30 June 2022. Bokaro-Angul, June 2022. Durgapur-Haldia is June 2023. Barauni-Guwahati, June 2023. Dhamra-Haldia, 30 June 2023. KKBMPL is February 2025. Srikakulam-Angul, July 2023. Mumbai-Nagpur-Jharsuguda, 2023. This major PC petrochemical project that is the PDH-PP that is coming near here in Usar. Expected completion is in April 2025. The polymer PP plant in Pata is January 2024. I would now request Sumit Kishore to take this presentation forward. Thank you.

Sumit Kishore
Executive Director of Marketing Gas and Business Development, GAIL

Good afternoon, gentlemen. I'll just quickly take you through the industry outlook, where I'll be first giving you a glimpse of what has been happening in the international market, and then we'll quickly run through what has been happening in the Indian market and especially with respect to GAIL. Now, we all are aware that all the major economies, the governments of major economies have been struggling with the idea of how to achieve net zero and the climate change is a thing which has been bothering all the nations. The role of natural gas, we feel, while this energy transition is going to happen, will still be very important, especially during the transition.

We all know that fossil fuels dependency will decrease, but as we switch over from the fossil fuels to the renewables, but especially in economies like India and China where coal is still playing a major role, gas will continue to play a major role and especially there will be more and more industrialization shifting towards these countries like India and China. Gas will continue the role as a transition fuel. Next slide. Okay. While some of the major changes have happened in the geopolitical scenario in last few months, it's an eye-opener for all of us.

The race to net zero, whether it is too fast or the countries are trying to reach that, energy transition, whether they are taking care of the energy transition or the energy security aspects, while they are rushing to the net zero is a question mark. Now, this kind of energy shock, whether this was the first event or there will be more such events, we are all struggling to find it hard. One thing is certain, we cannot choke the investments in the E&P sector, and that's the realization now, which is happening very fast. In these circumstances, we understand that gas will play a major role. It's a dual role that gas will be playing.

It will be replacing the fossil fuels, especially the liquid fuels, and especially where the industrialization is taking place in countries like India and China. Gas is a much better fuel compared to the solid fuels like coal, et cetera, and it will help in reducing the carbon footprint also. That's how we see things playing out in the next few decades. See, this slide again shows countries like India and China. They are using natural gas and renewables to a lesser extent compared to other global major economies. Share of natural gas is definitely going to increase in these two countries and where the coal is having a very high percentage. That's already a given. We all have to see at what pace it is going to happen.

Next slide, please. See, this broadly shows how the even in the difficult year where at least half of the year was, many of the countries were struggling to fight the COVID pandemic. Still the imports have grown to the extent of around 6% world over, and this has been mainly driven by countries like China, which have increased the imports to a large extent. China has now taken over as the number one LNG importer. Earlier it was used to be Japan. This, major new sources emerging, the increase in the share of exporters has been mainly driven by the U.S., especially the Henry Hub driven gas. This again is the country-wide LNG importing list. China has become the number one and India continues to remain at number four.

Most of the growth is in the future next few years is expected to come from these two countries and other Asian countries. India is still among the top 13. We are at the 13th sequence as far as gas consuming countries are concerned. We see a lot of potential because our the percentage of natural gas in the energy mix is only 6.7%. There is a lot of potential and we are certainly going to jump a few places in the next decade. As far as energy consumption is concerned, China is of course the biggest contributor of in the global energy consumption. It's at 26%. India is also quite important at 5.7%.

If you look at the projections, how natural gas and the primary energy consumption is going to grow, we are expecting it to double. India energy consumption is going to double by around 2050. Mainly very energy intensive activities, especially are going to get relocated to countries like India and some other Asia-Pacific countries, and they are going to drive the requirement of natural gas. Role of natural gas will continue to remain important, especially it is near to zero carbon. It's near to zero carbon, it's important to understand. Of course, in future, its natural gas also has the possibility to produce green and blue hydrogen.

If you look at the domestic gas consumption pattern, how it has been, fertilizer and power have, as usual, especially in the year just, 2021, 2022, they were the major drivers of consumption. Future is going to belong, if you see the pie chart which is down below, it's the projection for around 2030. CGD and the industrial segment are going to drive the growth in the next decade. Of course, some consumption is also expected to increase in refineries, the steel sector and others. Normally, fertilizer segment and power segment will still continue to be the backbone of the consumption. As we go towards 2030, the ambition of the nation is to achieve 15% natural gas in the overall energy basket.

The drivers will of course be the newer areas. The gas infrastructure is definitely in place for this new growth which we are expecting. The terminals are coming up. We already have a 40 MMTPA capacity. It's going to be around 1.5 x. Upcoming terminals Dhamra, Chhara, Jaigarh, Jafrabad. Of course, the port also we are carrying out the breakwater activities, so that will also be available for the season next summer onwards. As far as pipeline is concerned, it's going to be around 1.8x in the next three or four years. The infrastructure would be in place. The growth driver, the CGD sector.

Practically with the new rounds of eighth round of the CGD rollout, practically the whole of India is now covered with the GAs and it's 88% of the country's area and 98% of the country's population is virtually covered under the CGD ambit. The CNG stations, already around 4,400 CNG stations exist. This number is expected to reach 10,000 by 2030. DPNG, the household PNG connections are expected to reach 5 crores by 2030. This is the growth story emerging. As far as the petchem segment is concerned, we see lot of potential as the GDP grows and the economy grows.

The per capita plastic consumption in India is only 11 kg, whereas in countries like China it is 45 kg, and even other developing countries it is 30 kg. There's going to be lot of growth in this segment. This growth is going to be primarily driven by the packaging industry, the e-commerce industry, the automobile segment, and the agricultural as the advancements happen in the irrigation sector. We expect around 7 %- 7.5% growth in the plastic consumption in the country. As GAIL, we are going to lay new capacities in Usar under the

The PP segment. In Usar we have the 500 KTA PP plant and another 60 KTA in Pata, which are going to come up in the next two years-three years. Now, that's the stable businesses of GAIL. We are still looking at other segments and we are getting ourselves future-ready. We are doing things in hydrogen, CBG, ethanol and renewables. Hydrogen, we have already placed order for the 10-megawatt electrolyzer at Vijaypur. As far as CBG is concerned, we all are aware that GAIL has been made responsible for blending of CBG in the CNG PNG segment, and it is as authorized by the government of India. We are already, six GAs are getting CBG-made gas in the segment, and this number is going to grow in future.

GAIL is itself setting up a 5 tons CBG plant at Ranchi. In ethanol we are already looking at two -three sites where we are going to set up ethanol facilities. Renewables, we have an ambitious target of achieving one gigawatt renewable power. That's how we are looking at other emerging segments also to diversify our portfolio. Thanks. That's all.

Amit Rustagi
Equity Analyst, UBS Securities India

Now may I request the participants to have their questions, and I would request, please introduce yourself before raising the question. Now the floor is open for Q&A. Thank you.

Manish Jain
Equity Research Analyst, GormalOne

Hi, I'm Manish Jain, and wanted to understand your initiatives pertaining to hydrogen. What are the challenges that you foresee in blending hydrogen in your existing pipelines, especially the old pipelines and the new pipelines? If you can just give us a roadmap for the next one, three, five years, that'll be good.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Thank you. Primarily what we are looking at, use of hydrogen in two ways. One is that producing the green hydrogen. For that we are putting up a 10-megawatt electrolyzer at our one of our process plant at Vijaypur in Madhya Pradesh, and that will be powered by the renewable energy. That order we have placed and that project is going to be completed in 18 months' time. As far as demand for that 10-megawatt electrolyzer is concerned, there are probable options with respect to fertilizers as well as mixing in the natural gas pipelines and supplying to end consumers separately also. It all will depend upon, one is the government policies which we are expecting maybe in next few months will be finalized and coming, especially with respect to mandatory obligations at fertilizers, refinery and other sectors.

Regarding the second aspect of mixing of hydrogen in the natural gas pipelines, we have already started one of the pilot project in January 2022 in Indore, and we are supplying to one of the city gas distribution network. Up to 2% we got the approvals from the PESO as well as PNGRB regulators, and that is continuing for last four months. The first draft report on the results has also come, and the 2% there is no adverse impact, so materiality-wise it is satisfactory. Now we intend to go for more percentages increase with the approval of the regulators to move ahead. That is one part. Secondly, we are also looking at with the support of EAL at lab-based studies on the impact on the various materials of natural gas pipelines.

As far as the differentiation between new and old pipeline is concerned, we understand from the worldwide studies that up to X52 grade pipes, probably some of the European countries have gone up to 18%. Whereas in above 52 grade pipe, like, which we are using X70 and X80 grade pipes, probably they feel that the percentage may be slightly lower. That needs to be firmed up. That we are working on, at how it can be worked. Associated with the pipeline is the various accessories like valves, bands. That also studies are being underway. The most important part is the impact on the end user. Because if a user is fertilizer plant or user is a household kitchen or user is the automobile vehicle, impact on all these areas also need to be elaborated and also tested.

We have also commissioned those studies. Primarily at this stage we are working on the hydrogen space with respect to ascertaining the technical viability and the compatibility with respect to pipelines. As such, at this stage the planning for one, three, five year may not be that much reliable from that perspective. From the green hydrogen perspective, we intend to go up to around 35,000 tons of hydrogen making by 2030. That is our tentative estimate. We need to firm up all this within next 18 months to two year when all these studies as well as government policies will be clear.

Primarily the firm plans after 18 months are contingent upon the government policies with respect to the hydrogen mandatory obligation, with respect to the tariff, exemptions of renewable with the hydrogen, location advantages and also the end users compatibility.

Manish Jain
Equity Research Analyst, GormalOne

Thank you so much.

Probal Sen
VP of Equity Research and Lead Analyst for the Oil and Gas sector, ICICI Securities

Hello, sir. Am I audible? Yeah, this is Probal here from ICICI Securities. I had a question regarding the gas pooling policy that has been put in place. Obviously, a couple of things. One is that the priority of mixing that you will be doing, what we read from the document that's come, is HPHD gas followed by term and followed by spot. So is there a sort of a premix formula that will be evolving as we go along? How will GAIL actually practically be doing it? That's one. And secondly, what will be the tenure of the pricing that will be there? From what we understand, the initial pricing communicated to the players is for the first 15 days, whereas the document mentions allocation being done on a quarterly basis of the volumes.

How will that actually play out, if you can just clarify for us? Thank you.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Yeah. Pricing will be on monthly basis. Since it started on sixteenth of May, it was for 15 days, and from first June we'll have the pricing for June. The primary reason for this monthly pricing is that, presently, since no HPHD gas is available, and also no long-term RLNG is available, we are procuring spot RLNG for mixing. Depending on the arrival of spot cargo, we are doing it on monthly basis, which is being allowed by the government. Second part is the priority of mixing. As you rightly know, the APM and non-APM is the first priority, whatever is available for this sector. Then, a small element of CBG, whichever is available, will also be added to it. After that, if HPHD is available, then that will be the priority.

Then the long-term RLNG and the spot RLNG, depending on the availability, will be the priority. That is the priority which has been decided, but after all it will be deliberated and, once either long-term RLNG or HPHD is firmed up, so that will become a part of that pool. Because long term, if it is fixed up, it has to remain for long term, so that will become a part of earlier priorities.

Probal Sen
VP of Equity Research and Lead Analyst for the Oil and Gas sector, ICICI Securities

Sir, if I can ask just a small follow-up. Term LNG would include the U.S. Henry Hub-linked gas that we have in our portfolio. Is that an option for us to blend it?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

As of now, no, because the entire long-term LNG has been sold out. That's why. Otherwise, you would have done from day one. Now whatever will be available, we'll probably be sourcing it.

Probal Sen
VP of Equity Research and Lead Analyst for the Oil and Gas sector, ICICI Securities

Thank you very much, sir.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

Hello. I'm S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bang. Thank you very much for your detailed presentation. In going back to the question, earlier question on the pooled gas supplies. There's a figure of $8 per MMBtu which is being quoted as the current price for the CGD sector. Is that based on gross calorific value or net calorific value and does it include the pipeline transportation tariff on a leveraged basis for all the CGD companies?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

See, this is uniform basic price, so it does not include any transportation tariff. That is one. Secondly it is on the basis of gross calorific value.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

The actual delivered cost for the CGD companies will include the difference in transportation?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Yeah. Not only transportation, but VAT and other taxes also.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

Okay. For CNG there is no VAT in Delhi, just excise duty, right?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

In some state it is.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

Yeah. Okay.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Yeah.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

The second follow-up question is now in terms of the long-term growth for transportation and marketing. We see the 22% or thereabout is CGD. That seems to be the only sector where you have any traction in terms of growth. On the fertilizer, obviously the three new fertilizer plants on the JHBDPL pipeline will give you some growth. In terms of your transportation and marketing volumes, what is the kind of growth we can expect in FY 2023 and then going forward?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

For next 3 years, we expect that in the sales, the growth will be 6%-8%. For the transmission, 8%-10%.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

This will be primarily driven by CGD?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

The transportation will be primarily driven by CGD as well as refinery and also the fertilizer plants, whose impact is yet to realize in this year. Some of the plants came mid of the last year and some two more plants yet to come, which will be coming this year. For the refinery part it will be the transportation which majorly we are expecting will be impacted.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

Just one last thought. Now, if you look at the gas pool policy for the new CGDs, it starts at 6,000 SCM per day. Then, you know, you have an increment. If you look at the planning that has gone into the new CGD applications, they would have possibly had a timeline for reaching a critical mass or the peak volumes. Doesn't this inhibit the potential for achieving break-even or viability for the new CGDs? What is your thought on that, and will some backstopping have to be done for the new CGDs in terms of the allocation of gas for CNG and household PNG? What is your thought on that?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

The first quarter, the government has allowed that up to 6,000, whatever quantity they take, that is allowed to them 100% of this unified base price. Whereas in other cases, there has to be a quarter lag. For that purpose, these new CGDs have a small advantage. You are right, that volume is too small to make any difference much significant. Second part is that if suppose some CGD ties up through CBG in that area. That will be over and above that allocation of CGD that is allowed additionally.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

Okay, thank you very much. Wish you all the best.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Thank you.

Reena Shah
Equity Research Associate and Analyst, Elara Capital

Sir. One question from my side. My name is Reena Shah, I'm from Elara Capital. Sir, I wanted to understand this pooling, how this benefits GAIL in terms of volumes or margins, and in which segment will it benefit?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

See, the pooling of CGD, if you look then, it is actually a win-win for not only GAIL, but also for the CGD company. Most of the CGD players who have bid the authorization and won it are small players and probably they don't want to directly import the RLNG and thing, and they do not have the requirement to the extent of a cargo or two cargo like that. That aggregated volume can be imported by GAIL. That helps them as well as GAIL, and GAIL in turn will charge only a fixed small marketing margin, which GAIL is already charging for all the CGD volumes.

Reena Shah
Equity Research Associate and Analyst, Elara Capital

Okay.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

From that perspective, the additional volume will be coming to GAIL with that fixed marketing margin from the GAIL's perspective.

Reena Shah
Equity Research Associate and Analyst, Elara Capital

Sure.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

From the consumer's perspective, they will be saved from the hassles of importing, this large volume and then how to store that and all those problems.

Reena Shah
Equity Research Associate and Analyst, Elara Capital

Okay. Sir, one more question. In last quarter, we have seen transmission volumes going down. Is it because of Omicron impact only, or it is because of higher LNG prices? How do you see higher LNG prices impacting your transmission volumes going forward? That's it.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

See, primarily the impact of transmission volume going down was because of Omicron, as well as the shutdowns which were taken by some of the plants, including our own petrochemical plant in the month of March. You are right that some of the small industries which were on gas, they have also slightly, but that impact is not significant. Going forward, we feel that the impact, since all the fertilizer plants as well as our own plant has come back on stream. From June onwards, this impact will not be there and there will be growth in the transmission volumes. Plus we are also expecting that coming forward in the month of August, September, and October, the demand from power will also be coming back, so that will also add to the volumes.

Reena Shah
Equity Research Associate and Analyst, Elara Capital

Okay. Thank you, sir. That's it.

Abhishek Dutta
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Prabhudas Lilladher

Sir, this is Abhishek Dutta from Prabhudas Lilladher. Sir, I just had a query. Like, you will be supplying gas volumes to the CGD companies. What happens to companies like IGL who has already tied in medium to short-term contracts? What happens to their volumes?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Actually, they are already tied up this volume because they need that gas. That primarily they are catering to that volume for the commercial industrial entities, which immediately they might have used for adding to the CNG pool. But now since their commercial industrial portfolio is also increased, they are in a better position to utilize for that. In any case, that's why for CGD companies we have capped take or pay at 60% year.

Vishnu Kumar
Research Analyst and VP of Equity Research, Spark Capital

Sir, this is Vishnu from Spark Capital. I have a few questions. Firstly, on the pipeline division, we have close to, I mean, multiple lines that are coming up in 2022 and 2023. Do you have any volume commitment, especially when you go towards the steel sector, Jharsuguda, all this Bokaro and all these places, do you have any volume commitment from these potential clients there? And when you say 8%-10% volume growth that you will do in the transmission side, how much are you penciling in that would come from these pipelines? If you could just help us understand that.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Yeah. This 8%-10% is for transmission, 6%-8% from sales. Obviously the sales part will be GAIL's kitty, which will be adding to both sales as well as transmission. The Jharsuguda and all those customers, yes, you know that there are already three big fertilizer plants are connected. Fourth plant of Matix is also already running. We have got refineries which will be connected. All these steel plants as well as the CGD which are on this route in Odisha as well as Jharkhand, they are also will be connected maybe by August or so. Maybe this October we'll have complete Odisha, Jharkhand, Bihar, that entire section will be connected to all the pipelines. The volume of transmission will be primarily driven by these fertilizer plants, refineries, and CGD entities.

Volume for sales will be primarily driven by these three fertilizer plants, as well as the CGD which are under GAIL or its JV's purviews. Also, as you rightly said, the steel and its ancillary industries, which we expect in the range of 1.5-2 MMSCMD, initially maybe in a year's time.

Vishnu Kumar
Research Analyst and VP of Equity Research, Spark Capital

We have, I mean, multiple lines going to the same location. When you say these fertilizer plants, this, the Urja Ganga line does cater to a lot of them. How do we see the other lines, let's say, if I'm saying the Jharsuguda line or let's say, even the Srikakulam-Angul, those lines will not really help for the fertilizer plants, I mean.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

No, actually, those lines have been designed that they will be catering, like Srikakulam-Angul. That line is primarily between Srikakulam to Angul. Whatever the consumers come, it will be catering to that. It is connected both sides from the grid. It is a part of national gas grid. Connection at both the ends. Similarly, Mumbai to Nagpur to Jharsuguda. It is actually connecting Mumbai to Nagpur. We intend to connect by, say, December this year, and maybe up to Jharsuguda maybe next year, 2023. This will also be again a part of the national gas grid. The connection to the grid helps in two ways. One is all the en route entities are connected, and secondly, it also helps in providing an alternate route in case of any safety or any requirement.

At the same time, the pressures are healthy, so we are able to cater to a large volume of consumers when all the pipelines may be running at full capacity.

Vishnu Kumar
Research Analyst and VP of Equity Research, Spark Capital

Understood, sir. We have a total of about INR 30,000 crore odd CapEx, where I think I can see that about INR 16,000 crore is done. In effect, only INR 14,000 crore will go towards pipeline division. Is that right?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

I'll just check the number what you said. The INR 30,000 crore what we are talking is,

Vishnu Kumar
Research Analyst and VP of Equity Research, Spark Capital

Approved cost

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Total for the coming years, not that what we have already spent.

Vishnu Kumar
Research Analyst and VP of Equity Research, Spark Capital

No, I meant if the approved cost I add up, it's coming close to that.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Yeah, that is for pipeline, but around INR 9,000 crore is for petrochemical project, which is one is Usar near Alibag, and the second one is the one in Pata. We have got E&P CapEx, which will be coming up. We have got CGD CapEx, which will be coming up. We have also equity contribution, which we'll have to give to our JVs and other CGD companies. We are also looking at 1 gigawatt of renewable energy in the next 3 years.

Vishnu Kumar
Research Analyst and VP of Equity Research, Spark Capital

My question is actually that once we have done with these lines, more or less the incremental capital towards pipeline division will be much lesser because most of the pipelines will be done by then. Maybe two years out, you may not really require a lot of pipelines investment.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

I mean, look at it from the perspective of a basic model versus an advanced model. See, the basic model of a national gas grid consists of the 34,000 kilometers of pipeline, which you are right, that will be completed in the next three years or so. If you look from a country like ours versus a country like the U.S., where lakhs of kilometers of pipeline is there, where 34,000 is nothing. Many, many spare lines and new connecting lines will be definitely coming up. Like, now we are talking about line coming from Gurdaspur to Jammu to Srinagar. We are also talking about a pipeline in the northeastern region. There are many, many more opportunities which are available and will be available.

Definitely we'll have to work from the basic grid, then how we can further mesh this grid into an advanced.

Vishnu Kumar
Research Analyst and VP of Equity Research, Spark Capital

Got it, sir. Just last one from my side. Given that these are getting commissioned and the tariffs are going to be higher for them, I mean, how are you able to fix customers with unified tariff coming in or when do we expect that to kick in? Any thoughts on that?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Maybe.

Sumit Kishore
Executive Director of Marketing Gas and Business Development, GAIL

Thank you. Unified tariff has already been notified in a different form, that is weighted average tariff. But that has not been implemented because of various implementation issues. We hope that PNGRB and we understand that PNGRB is working on, you know, sorting out those issues to work out that model or that regulation implementable. One of the way which PNGRB itself has notified, or floated a concept paper in 2017 is the entity level unified tariff and then at a larger level or a country level. PNGRB, we understand that has already started the process of doing that. Then in that process they are working for arriving at a capacity for unified network.

We hope that it will come, and then once that is done, then certainly that we will be able to see that model.

Vishnu Kumar
Research Analyst and VP of Equity Research, Spark Capital

Any timeline you would put to that, sir?

Sumit Kishore
Executive Director of Marketing Gas and Business Development, GAIL

Timeline, it's the regulator to do that, but since now more and more pipelines are coming up and that additive tariff may become prohibitive for the development of gas market in the hinterland and the areas which are far from source, certainly that will be done, maybe in a year or so. That's what we understand, but anyway, we will not be able to give any timeline for that. PNGRB has already started working on that.

Vishnu Kumar
Research Analyst and VP of Equity Research, Spark Capital

Thank you.

Sabri Hazarika
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Energy and Aviation, Emkay Global Financial Services

Yeah. Good evening. This is Sabri Hazarika from Emkay Global. I have a question with respect to the petrochemical plant. Where would you be sourcing the propane from for this new plant? Would it be internally from GAIL's system gas, or would it be imported from outside?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

It will be imported propane. That's why we have chosen the location of Alibag, and we have already a preliminary agreement with BPCL, who in any case bring a lot of imported propane into the country. We'll be also bringing along with them, because our requirement is a very fraction of what they bring every year.

Sabri Hazarika
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Energy and Aviation, Emkay Global Financial Services

Right. It will mostly come from Middle East?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Yes.

Sabri Hazarika
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Energy and Aviation, Emkay Global Financial Services

What would be the amount of propane which it come here on that?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

It will be 600,000 tons per annum.

Sabri Hazarika
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Energy and Aviation, Emkay Global Financial Services

Okay. Lastly, what is the project IRR of this petrochemical plant? Or equity IRR to-

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

It is above the threshold level of GAIL's projects.

Sabri Hazarika
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Energy and Aviation, Emkay Global Financial Services

15%-16% of equity IRR or would it be different? Okay. Thank you. Yeah.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Thank you.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

Hello, I'm S. Ramesh. I have a follow-up question. If you're looking at the earnings prospects for the next one-two years, I'm not asking for guidance here, but the sense we get is gas marketing is at the peak. Transmission may deliver some growth because of the volume growth. In petrochemicals and LPG, there are pressure points because the petrochemical margins globally, what we see, are down. In LPG you have the problem of the increase in the gas feedstock price. How do you manage these challenges, say, in the next FY 2023 and FY 2024? Is there any backstopping you can expect for LPG, given that's also a priority sector? In petrochemicals, how do you see the margins in the next six-12 months?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

See, for the current FY 2023, we feel that the margins are going to remain more or less in the similar range, probably because of the two reasons. One is that, our transmission volumes will increase, so that will lead to some growth in our profitability from that perspective. Similarly, on the trading front also, now this year we have done a lot of stabilizing efforts, and we have got that basis risk which was there earlier is also reduced to a considerable extent, and the hedging part is also strengthened. So from that perspective, we expect that between INR 2,000 crore-INR 2,500 crores stable earning is an assured one, and beyond that, depending on the volatility we can further earn. If you look from petchem side also, as well as LPG, the prices so far are running very good.

We feel that similar prices will prevail because of the uncertain global scenario also. Since we do have long-term gas allocated to our petchem, we feel that the margins may be similar to last year. For LPG and LHC, though the prices are much better than last year, so cost definitely has also increased because of APM gas cost has increased. We have also started a hedging activity for LPG, so that is also giving some stability to us.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

Since you mentioned hedging, can we get some indication of how much you're hedging on the gas marketing side and on the LPG side?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Numbers.

Sumit Kishore
Executive Director of Marketing Gas and Business Development, GAIL

Primarily we have, you know, if you talk of U.S. gas, if you talk of this year, because hedging is a continuous activity and done at an appropriate time. We talk of this year, almost, we are bringing 13.5 MMSCMD of gas to India from United States. One of the jobs we did in recent past that almost 7 million of gas we have tied up on back-to-back basis, where there is a HS plus some marketing margin. To that extent, we are price risk-free. Second, what we have done almost 1.5 million-2 million of gas, which we have sold other than the Henry Hub index already hedged.

For remaining gas, we will be appropriately hedging because we look for the market opportunity in the hedge. Currently, almost eight million-nine million gas out of 13.5 we have tied up either back to back or we have hedged.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

Okay. On LPG, how much would be the hedge?

Sumit Kishore
Executive Director of Marketing Gas and Business Development, GAIL

LPG, we have just begun. Earlier we were not hedging LPG. Only this year, last March, we have started hedging. It's only a small beginning, almost 23,000 metric tons of LPG we have hedged.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

Okay, just one last thought. It's more of a philosophical question, because if you look at the International Energy Agency, they are pointing to the risk of methane emissions in gas processing. The Indian policy doesn't seem to take cognizance of this. Is there any background discussion going on in terms of methane emissions? How are we in the CGD sector and the overall gas processing planning to tackle this? Or is it something which is already under control? We'd like to understand that.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

See, one part is that we feel that the energy transition with the concern for sustainable environment has to be a gradual one. From that perspective, while we are promoting gas as compared to liquid fossil fuels, at the same time, we are also working on hydrogen, because hydrogen is much talked about, but less worked upon. We are trying to work out the standards for the country for the hydrogen arena. Once those are firmly in place, especially with respect to how pipelines can carry hydrogen and up to what percentage, then probably that philosophy or the policy or the guidelines or the regulations will drive us maybe in next 8-10 years towards a hydrogen sustainable future. If you mix with the natural gas, definitely it will also help us in reduction of carbon footprints.

It's a gradual process we are working.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

Yeah, I appreciate that. Maybe we can take it offline. You're looking at methane emissions. That seems to be a bigger concern because it has a lot more damaging impact on the climate change. Unfortunately, in the Indian policy, we have not paid enough attention according to my reading. I may be wrong. That's possibly a, you know, food for thought.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

From the gas perspective, I can say that once, maybe around seven , eight years before, we have already done one study for GHG emissions, and we found that our systems being very nicely maintained. Actually, GHG emissions is a major concern when there are leakages.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

Okay.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

We found that our systems were well maintained and very well taken care of. That's why at that point of time, it was not having significant impact. Again, this year, we have started a study for net zero as well as for GHG emissions.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

Okay.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Maybe in a year's time, those results will also be again available, so we can work on those if there are any concerns.

S. Ramesh
Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas, Nirmal Bang

That's very encouraging. Thanks a lot, sir. Thank you.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Thank you.

Pinakin Parekh
Executive Director and Research Analyst, JPMorgan India

Sir, Pinakin Parekh from JP Morgan. Sir, three questions. On the CGD sector, sir, can you give more details in terms of the pricing and volume? For example, you said pricing is monthly. For the month of June, you would have a sense of what will be the blended portfolio price of the gas which is going to be supplied to the CGD sector. How does that compare with the $6.1 which the government has said? For example, for the month of June, what is the spot component of the supply vis-à-vis what it was in March?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

See, for 16th of May it was $8.04 as compared to that $6.1. For June also, the final price, probably people are working today and tomorrow with the PPAC, but we expect that it will not be very far off from the May price.

Pinakin Parekh
Executive Director and Research Analyst, JPMorgan India

What will be the spot component of that supply? There's APM, there's HPHD and there is spot RLNG as you mentioned.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

See, HPHD as on date is not available, so therefore that's not there. APM, non-APM is the large percentage and maybe RLNG is in the range of around 10% or so. Exact number I don't remember, but it's around 10% or so.

Pinakin Parekh
Executive Director and Research Analyst, JPMorgan India

Sir, just to, you know, round up this discussion, in terms of the visibility that you go and book a spot RLNG, it is for how many months before? Because the expectation is that spot LNG prices could again surge starting October, November, this year and, you know, cross this year's highs. We're just trying to understand, is this a very short-term thing which will, you know, differ from month to month?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

With respect to CGD?

Pinakin Parekh
Executive Director and Research Analyst, JPMorgan India

Yes, sir.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

See, as of now, for the first quarter government has mandated that you buy spot RLNG. Maybe till June end or maybe it will work for July also. By the time we get the figures of June end, the new demand will become forthcoming after the quarter's numbers are frozen. Based on that new demand, in the meantime we are also looking for long-term RLNG opportunities. If we are able to tie up something, then probably that can fit into. Else there is an expectation that in September some HPHD biddings may come. That time we'll have to work on that.

Pinakin Parekh
Executive Director and Research Analyst, JPMorgan India

Thank you, sir. Sir, just to reconfirm, you mentioned gas trading margins of INR 2,000 crore-INR 2,500 crore, right, for FY 2023? That implies a sharp decline from FY 2022.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

No. What we are trying to say, the concerns for that, last year there was a negative margin. This year there is a positive of INR 4,000 crore or INR 3,800 crore something. What we are trying to give you the aspect that this year and the last year, the change is that we are, as Mr. Jain has already said, that we have already tied up back-to-back from the trading perspective with a fixed margin. That all accounted for, it's going to give us an assured number of this and any upside is further there. We are not expecting that there is going to be anything which is below this number, as was the case last year.

Pinakin Parekh
Executive Director and Research Analyst, JPMorgan India

Sir, just to clarify, if spot LNG prices in FY 2023 would have the exact same trajectory as FY 2022, should we have the same EBITDA or should we have INR 2,500 crores?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

No, it needs to be better than today.

Pinakin Parekh
Executive Director and Research Analyst, JPMorgan India

It needs to be better.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Yeah. Because definitely if this everything is same, we have got additional volumes.

Pinakin Parekh
Executive Director and Research Analyst, JPMorgan India

Okay.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

It should be better than this FY 2022 if everything remains same.

Pinakin Parekh
Executive Director and Research Analyst, JPMorgan India

Understood. Sir, lastly, I mean, any comments on the entire speculation of windfall tax and everything? Has the government sounded out? Has any discussions going on? How do you view it, sir?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Yes. So far we have not been summoned by anyone, number one. Number two, I mean, from the logical perspective, what we feel is that transmission is a regulated activity, so there is no question, which is around 30% of our total earnings. Similarly, Petchem and LPG are the market-driven prices and market-driven sourcing of raw material, so that also doesn't fall under any windfall. Even the gas trading part, if you look from the Indian perspective, whatever we are doing is 90% of that is against fixed margins. I don't think that it's a passthrough for gas, so probably whether we fall into the definition, I have doubts about that.

Pinakin Parekh
Executive Director and Research Analyst, JPMorgan India

Understood. Thank you very much, sir.

Mohan Paranjape
Research Analyst and Assistant VP of Equity Research, Prabhudas Lilladher

Yeah. Mohan here. I just wanted to understand, many industries are trying to decarbonize between now and 2030 and 2040. Now, do you visualize newer industries moving into gas, particularly something like steel, which is largely dependent on coking coal or other coal users, which could be new, totally new lines of business for us?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

See, one is that, steel industry, I don't know the primary furnace, even the existing blast furnace can take up to 30% of gas with minor modification.

Mohan Paranjape
Research Analyst and Assistant VP of Equity Research, Prabhudas Lilladher

Mm.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

That is a good area where they can look into. We understand that some of the big players in the steel industry are trying for that.

Mohan Paranjape
Research Analyst and Assistant VP of Equity Research, Prabhudas Lilladher

Okay.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

For decarbonizing their operations, some in the eastern India. Once they get connected to the pipeline, that provides an ease for them to work upon those area. Primarily what we feel that the drive for natural gas demand, while the most of the industry try to decarbonize, but many of the industry actually trying to shift from more polluting to less polluting fuel, because transition in a knee-jerk reaction, we have already seen worldwide.

Mohan Paranjape
Research Analyst and Assistant VP of Equity Research, Prabhudas Lilladher

Mm.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

World, if world cannot sustain, how the small industry can sustain?

Mohan Paranjape
Research Analyst and Assistant VP of Equity Research, Prabhudas Lilladher

Correct.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Like you look from the NCR perspective, now this entire NCR area is slowly graduating to gas from coal, FO and all LSHS. That's a big area which is coming. The third and the significant area is that most of the refineries are now getting into this Petchem mode operations. The conversion of the 10%-15% is now going to up to 24% or so.

Mohan Paranjape
Research Analyst and Assistant VP of Equity Research, Prabhudas Lilladher

Mm-hmm.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Petchem, if they go then they definitely need more gas for that purpose. That's also one of the big area which is coming up for the gas.

Mohan Paranjape
Research Analyst and Assistant VP of Equity Research, Prabhudas Lilladher

Longer term, if the hydrogen economy truly happens, how much will be the investment needed through using our existing pipelines? Can they be modified totally to carry full hydrogen or new pipelines have to be set up?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

It's at this stage, I will not speculate because it's a technical thing. Once we do experiment up to what percent existing pipeline can take, then first we can answer for that. Secondly, if it is 100%, there is no problem because even today also our industries, our process plants have internal piping and pipelines which are purely for hydrogen. That is already available. Even in the PDH-PP plant which we are coming up in Usar, I think we have got 24,000 tons of hydrogen which will be available as a by-product to that plant, because it's a propane dehydrogenation plant, so hydrogen will be available as a by-product.

Mohan Paranjape
Research Analyst and Assistant VP of Equity Research, Prabhudas Lilladher

Yeah. Thanks. That's all.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Yeah, please.

Speaker 17

Evening, sir. My question is with regard to the possible InvIT of the pipelines. I read, I mean, there was a news item that floated around a few days back that the proposal has been resent back to the PPAC. Are there any updates on the upcoming InvITs from your end?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

On asset monetization?

Speaker 17

Yes, sir. The InvITs of the pipelines that we have.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Actually, InvIT is one of the method of asset monetization. While we are working on that around INR 4,000 crore pipelines asset monetization, which mode it will be finally decided whether InvIT is one of the mode available. There are other modes also available. That is yet to be finalized.

Speaker 17

Thank you, sir.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Yes.

Krati Sankhlecha
Equity Research Associate and Analyst, Credit Suisse

Good evening, sir. Krati Sanklecha Desai from Credit Suisse. Wanted to check on the HVJ pipeline. HVJ must already be about more than 65% utilized, and GAIL gets a fixed minimum return on 75% utilization. Given the large increase in the CGD demand and the fertilizer demand that's going to come, wouldn't GAIL need to put another expansion of this HVJ? Or you think that with Urja Ganga coming in, some volumes would get diverted and the additional CapEx would not be required?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Actually, if you look from the total pipeline portfolio, we are utilizing only 55% of our pipelines. There is, I mean, whatever is present, 110 MMSCMD, we can easily double it without any expansion or anything. Specifically to HVJ, if you look together from Hajira as well as from Dahej, because both are meeting near Vadodara, a place called Vaghodia, so they are parallelly running into the same right of way. There is, if I remember correctly, 108 million.

Krati Sankhlecha
Equity Research Associate and Analyst, Credit Suisse

107

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

107 MMSCMD of capacity which is available. Out of which presently we are utilizing to the extent of, I think, around 45.

Sumit Kishore
Executive Director of Marketing Gas and Business Development, GAIL

Don't know, maybe like 70.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

70. There is still scope for 38 MMSCMD, so it's a huge number. Definitely, as and when need is there, we are there to lay.

Krati Sankhlecha
Equity Research Associate and Analyst, Credit Suisse

Sir, you would rather go till 100% utilization versus adding a new line once you reach 75%?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

No, it's actually a parallel exercise. Like, from Vijaypur to down to the UP, we have already laid one more spare line. Because we wanted to cater to this Phulpur and then up to Kolkata and maybe up to northeast. Similarly from Dhamra also it will connect. Wherever we find that in future, maybe five years down the line, there is going to be a constraint, we can look for that. Even today also, when the pipelines are running, some of our compressors are not running. We can further enhance the capacity by just running those additional compressors.

Krati Sankhlecha
Equity Research Associate and Analyst, Credit Suisse

Okay. Understood. Sir, on the Urja Ganga pipeline, so, what portions of the pipeline are functioning as of now, or nothing is functioning?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

No, no, there are many portions which are functioning. Like phase one is completely functioning for the last four years. In the phase two also, up to Durgapur, it is functioning. One fertilizer plant is continuously running. We have got, it has reached up to near Ranchi, but just about to touch Ranchi. We are also connecting maybe in this month of June itself, Bokaro to Angul section. Maybe in the month by August, we'll be connecting from Dhamra. Entire Odisha of 800 kilometers will be connected. By December, Jamshedpur also will be connected by June. Maybe, for certain that by December, except for West Bengal portion, the entire Urja Ganga will be commissioned. This West Bengal also we expect to commission by June 2023.

Krati Sankhlecha
Equity Research Associate and Analyst, Credit Suisse

Understood, sir. Thank you.

Mohan Paranjape
Research Analyst and Assistant VP of Equity Research, Prabhudas Lilladher

Please.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Okay.

Kirtan Mehta
Equity Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas and Metals, BOB Capital Markets

This is Kirtan Mehta from BOB Capital Markets. Am I audible?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Yeah.

Kirtan Mehta
Equity Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas and Metals, BOB Capital Markets

Could you share the current status of the Bangalore leg of Kochi pipeline? There has been some resistance from the farmer side in terms of developing it. Is there any development where the new route has been found?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

See, as you rightly said, we have reached from the Kerala side up to Coimbatore in the Tamil Nadu. That part of 48 kilometers is done. Similarly, from Bangalore, we have reached up to Krishnagiri part. There again, 30 kilometers we are late. Now we are trying to reach from both the sides slowly. As you are rightly, there 180 or 190 kilometers in between where it comes, covers part of Krishnagiri, Dharmapuri, then Salem and Tiruppur. These four districts are there where it is, the issue is there about the resistance by the farmers. We are working with the industry department of Tamil Nadu government, and one alternate route was found out and survey was being done on that route. Broadly, we have worked out around 50 percent on that survey.

Then there were some issues, still some farmers wanted some more changes. Again, a second meeting took place with the industry ministry in Tamil Nadu, and now we are further working whether some possibility of along the highways can be worked out for certain part of the pipeline. That is being worked out. It is yet to be finalized.

Kirtan Mehta
Equity Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas and Metals, BOB Capital Markets

Right, sir. One more question on the fertilizer side. Would you be able to sort of run us through the current status of offtake from the different six fertilizer plants?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

See, Matix Fertilizers is taking full quantity. Ramagundam Fertilizers is taking full quantity. Gorakhpur plant has also started this month taking full quantity. Barauni and Sindri are just taking commissioning gas, a small. Sixth one is which one?

Kirtan Mehta
Equity Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas and Metals, BOB Capital Markets

Matrix.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

No, I mean.

Kirtan Mehta
Equity Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas and Metals, BOB Capital Markets

Sindri.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Sindri to full.

Kirtan Mehta
Equity Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas and Metals, BOB Capital Markets

Matrix.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Matix to full.

Kirtan Mehta
Equity Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas and Metals, BOB Capital Markets

Right.

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

Fifth one was on Urja Ganga. Sixth one, which you are talking? One may be the KKBMPL, if that is also already working on full capacity.

Kirtan Mehta
Equity Research Analyst and Sector Lead for Oil and Gas and Metals, BOB Capital Markets

Right. Thank you.

Amit Rustagi
Equity Analyst, UBS Securities India

Yeah. Maybe shall we take this as the last question?

Nitin Tiwari
Lead Analyst and Research Division Representative, YES Securities

Hi, sir. Good evening. This is Nitin from YES Securities. My question is related to the geopolitical situation that's panning out between Russia and, you know, European Union. EU is basically saying that they're going to reduce their dependence on Russian gas moving ahead. Does that open up opportunities for us as a country to import more? And do we have the supply chain aligned to import more gas from Russia? Does our Gazprom contract has the flexibility to import more or like, you know. What are your thoughts on that, and what are we planning with respect to that?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

From the geography, you see the direct bringing from Russia is a long distance. That is one part. Secondly, the Gazprom contract is a long-term contract, which is a portfolio contract. They have the flexibility they can buy from Russia, also they can buy from Cameroon or other countries also. That way we are able to manage that portfolio contract that if suppose one area or other has got some problem or some opportunity either way, then those can be brought into the long-term contract. Similarly, for the spot cargos, we float the tenders, so any trader or as well as any player can participate, and he might bring from anywhere. From that perspective, whatever cheap gas is available, we are ready to take that.

Nitin Tiwari
Lead Analyst and Research Division Representative, YES Securities

Is there a possibility, like on the lines of crude oil import, where we are evaluating probably cheaper import of crude oil from Russia, is there a possibility of cheaper import of gas as well? I mean, do we have any such conversations going on?

Manoj Jain
Chairman and Managing Director, GAIL

As on date, there is nothing substantive, is there.

Nitin Tiwari
Lead Analyst and Research Division Representative, YES Securities

Thank you, sir.

Amit Rustagi
Equity Analyst, UBS Securities India

Now I request Ribu Awan to give vote of thanks.

Speaker 18

Good evening, everyone. I am Ribu Awan, Associate Director of Research for UBS Securities India. It has been an honor for us to be a part of this insightful analysts meet. On behalf of GAIL (India) Limited and UBS Securities, I would like to extend my heartfelt gratitude to Shri Manoj Jainji, Shri RK Jainji, and heads of the various departments who handled the event throughout. Finally, I would like to thank all the analysts, investors and experts for being present here and help us make this event a grand success. Thank you one and all.

Amit Rustagi
Equity Analyst, UBS Securities India

Thank you, everyone. I would request everyone to join for a tea with us. Thank you.

Powered by