Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 FY 2024 earnings conference call of Gateway Distriparks Limited and Snowman Logistics Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. Today, on the call we have Mr. Prem Kishan Dass Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director. Mr. Ishaan Gupta, Joint Managing Director.
Mr. Samvid Gupta, Joint Managing Director. Mr. Sikander Yadav, CFO, Gateway Distriparks Limited. Mr. Rajguru Behgal, President, Rail, Gateway Distriparks Limited. Mr. Manoj Singh, President, CFS, Gateway Distriparks Limited. Mr. Sunil Nair, CEO and Director, Snowman Logistics Limited. Mr. N. Balakrishna, CFO, Snowman Logistics Limited. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Prem Kishan Dass Gupta for the opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us for our earnings call for Gateway Distriparks Limited and Snowman Logistics Limited for the quarter and year-ended 31st March 2024. I hope that you have had the opportunity to review our financial statements and investor presentation, which has been made available on the exchanges and on our website. We will be happy to address any questions or queries that you have, and any clarification on any particular issue will be addressed. With this, I hand over to the moderator for the Q&A session. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. We will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good evening, everyone, and thanks for taking my questions. A couple of questions. The first one is on Red Sea issues. How do we see it shaping up in the next quarter and possibly the year? What was the impact on our business in Q4? That is the first question. The second question is that if you can highlight the CapEx for next year and the broad areas where it would be done.
The Red Sea impact was there, especially on the rail side. We saw a big dip because the Red Sea crisis led to increase in freight rates and low value commodities booking went down. Primarily on account of waste paper and scrap, which we were doing a lot in Ludhiana and Kashipur. We had an impact, and you can see that in the throughput of the rail numbers. CFS was more or less flat account on Red Sea. It's still continuing a bit as we go into Q1, but still there is an uptake that we are seeing. Primarily the worst of it is past us. On the CapEx guidance, it remains the same as the past, that we are still looking for two new terminals. Once those are finalized, we'll let you know. There is no update on that as such.
With general maintenance, CapEx should be about INR 20 crores for the next year.
Okay. That is helpful. Thanks. I'll come back in the queue.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mr. Achal Lohade from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity. I wanted to check on, A, if you could spell out the market share, what we had in fourth quarter, as well as for the full year in the NCR and the Ludhiana market.
Yeah. At NCR, we maintain a market share of 16%, and in Ludhiana, we maintain a market share of 22%, and at Uttarakhand, our market share was 27% in Q4.
If you could help me with the base number. This is for fourth quarter. How was it in fourth quarter FY 2023?
If we look at FY 2023, there is a growth in NCR if we talk about the two terminals. We experienced a growth of 5.5%.
In Garhi and Pehowa. If you talk about Ludhiana, there was a dip in overall volumes, as Samvid mentioned, due to Red Sea crisis because there is a lot of import of scrap and waste paper coming. There was a de-growth of -30%, but that was primarily on account of imports. At Kashipur, there was a dip of -19% over Q4. If we see the overall year-over-year volume, we experienced a growth of around 8% in Kashipur volumes.
Just to clarify, the NCR market share has stayed same between last year and this year. In Ludhiana, our market share went down from about 30% to 22%, and this was primarily on account of a fifth factory coming in the region. We're still tied for the market leader in Ludhiana.
Hello.
The line for the current questioner is dropped from the queue, We'll move on to the next question. The next question is from the line of Krupashankar NJ from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Good evening, Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on could you share your EBITDA per TEU for the rail business and the CFS business?
Our rail EBITDA is about INR 9,800-INR 9,900 for the quarter. For the year, it comes to an average of just below INR 9,500. For CFS, we took some one-offs in this last quarter, If we exclude that, it's about INR 1,300 for the quarter and slightly above INR 1,500 for the full financial year.
Got it. When we note relating to the Jaipur ICD, there are specific challenges which have emerged Audit qualification also has been put across. Just wondering what are we doing with respect to resolving or is there any significant delay which one can anticipate in the Jaipur facility? Can you throw some light on that, please?
We have announced this last quarter itself. It was there in our notes. It's the same matter going on with no fresh update as such. The file has moved from Jaipur to Delhi and it's in progress. It's a legal process that we have to go through, but we are confident of a favorable order. We had already announced last quarter that we'll only be operational in the next financial year in Jaipur, so that remains on track.
Okay. Last question from my side. On CFS business, we have seen a significant deterioration as such. Have things stabilized overall in the CFS business or are we seeing further competitive intensity in the space which can have a detrimental effect on the EBITDA per TEU?
Manoj, are you on call? Okay. Yeah.
Yes, I am on call.
Can you just give some light on the CFS numbers?
Yes. On the CFS side, the competitive intensity remains and is expected to remain in the foreseeable future. The headwinds as far as increasing top line remain because of the competitive intensity. We are looking at cost, how we can control costs and in the foreseeable future it will remain.
Got it. INR 1,300 EBITDA per TEU should be the new normal what one should-
On account of some one-offs, closer to INR 1,500.
Okay. Understood. Sorry, go ahead please.
At Krishnapatnam CFS, we have applied for denotification as container volumes have stopped there. There's some one-offs expected in the coming quarter for that as well. Like Manoj said, INR 1,500 is what we are targeting for the rest of the year.
Understood. If I may, one more question from my side. On the rail side of things, how do you envisage growth in FY 2025, 2026 on the rail business? I know you are scouting for new terminals, but based on the existing operations, what sort of a growth rate are you looking for?
Right now we're still looking at double-digit growth. We have to see. We are seeing a volume uptick and expect that trend to continue going forward into next quarter. The Q2 should be better than Q1 and even the pipeline ahead of that is also strong.
Just to add to that, some of the dips which we are seeing right now are more because of geopolitical issues. Structurally in this industry we are very confident that there will be growth in manufacturing and in exit volumes. That's why we have this outlook.
Okay, fair enough. Are you not seeing any incremental volume growth because of road to rail shift given that even Vadodara has been, or till Vadodara DFC is operational? JNPT-led volumes perhaps you can take and bring it on a double stack from Garhi to Viramgam and then JNPT can be catered. Are you seeing any incremental volume growth coming in because of this?
We are already doing that from Viramgam and then Manavadar. Unless the entire section is double stack on the entire line up to New Bombay or wherever it ends, then that benefit will not be available in full from JNPT. In Mundra and Pipavav, we have already double stacked 100%, 100% in the sense the capacity is there. Volume of our gateway rail business depends on the double stack, depends on the volumes. I think it's all linked to when the DFC is 100% connected on the entire network.
Understood, sir. Thank you for answering my questions.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nihal Shah from Piramal Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Am I audible?
Yes, sir, you're audible. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is in the terms of realization. Have you seen an uptick in realization of the train throughput because our volumes have gone down by 7.5%, but the revenue has stayed flattish. If yes, then what are our expectations for the rail charges going forward?
Yeah. It's increased year-over-year, basically because of the busy season surcharge. We focus more on EBITDA per TEU. The revenue per TEU is more a function of what railways charges and we add our margin on top end to that. Other than that, we've not had any revisions to our handling or road transport. That trend will continue. EBITDA per TEU, as more sections get double stacked, especially Faridabad, which should happen, railways is constantly doing work on that. That will help push our margins up. One thing I would mention here is that going forward, the revenue and the expenses will be accounted for differently as per the auditors. The revenue net of discounts or incentives will be treated as revenue. There will be no separate column for other expenses or discounts and incentives.
Even though the growth might be there, the numbers at the revenue level might look muted, but it will have no impact on the EBITDA or the net, P&L account. This is primarily on the CFS side. There will be a change in accounting standard from next quarter.
Okay. Another question was that, what are the volume growth that we're expanding for the ICDs as we are only going at around 60% of capacity. What was the number of TEUs that we handled in this year, FY 2024?
We handled all India Gateway Rail , 3.68 lakh TEUs. On the CFS side it was 3.62 lakh TEUs, 7.3 lakh overall. We have enough capacity, especially on the ICD side, we can go four times of our volume. As and when we hit 70%-80% utilization, we just have to expand the container yard, which is a very nominal incremental cost, and we keep doing that year-over-year. Capacity won't be a constraint at any of our ICD locations.
Just one last question, what is the total number of TEUs on an average that we carry per train? Like we are around 90 TEUs per train that can be handled and obviously by double stacking we can get it to 180. By that we'll also get an idea of how much double stacking is possible, is happening right now.
Last quarter we handled about 950 per train per month. In the past we have hit 1,100 as well. We've also increased our rail capacity by 3 more trains now, and instead of 180, these can carry 192 TEUs on a fully double stacked basis. Our capacity also on the rail side has gone up, and we won't see any constraints there. As and when the volumes import, export pick up, we'll be more than capable to handle it. In the last quarter, the double stacking dipped by about 5%. Even though the volumes Yeah, from 40% to 35%.
Okay.
That is the main reason for the profitability of the revenue going down. Whenever the volumes pick up, our double stacking will go up. It is also pertinent to mention that Faridabad terminal will be double stacked soon. Some works by the railways are going on, and we expect that to happen in the next 3, 4 months.
From the current levels of 35%, how much do we expect it to go up to for double stacking in FY 2025 or FY 2026?
Yeah. Once it goes all the way to JNPT and Faridabad also adds up, we want to go closer to 45%-50%, which in the past we've done about 43%, 44% as our highest. We are more than capable of doing that, but it all depends on the volume mix and overall import/export imbalance.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mr. Achal Lohade from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sorry, I got disconnected. Could you please repeat in terms of the market share? I understood for the fourth quarter, you had mentioned about the market share. If you could talk about the full year market share, please.
NCR, we are still at 16%-17%. Year-on-year, that's not changed that much. Our overall volumes have gone up, but even NCR market has gone up. In Ludhiana, with the fifth ICD that came in, our market share went down, but we're still tied for the lead over there. Kashipur, where we've increased it nominally year-on-year, our market share. Primarily because Q4 was weak in waste paper and boards. If that was there, then our closed-end market share would have also been much higher for that reason.
Understood. Secondly, with respect to the Faridabad connection on DFC, how will it change for us in terms of the offering, in terms of the pricing, et cetera? If you could give some more clarity.
We can then do double stack directly from Faridabad, rather than right now we are doing it via Garhi. We'll be in a position to offer more discounts to customers, especially which are slightly further away from our catchment area, then those become a bit more viable to us. That's the main advantage that we have.
Is it possible to get some utilization number for our ICDs, for each of the ICD?
Most of them, like Garhi and Ludhiana would be closer to 70%. Faridabad, Kashipur, Viramgam, we have enough capacity right now. We'd be probably closer to about 50%. We have more than enough land bank at all these locations to handle enough capacity up to four times the current volume we're doing.
Understood. Just one more question, if I may. How do we look at the margins for both, I mean, for CFS you have mentioned, but what about the ICD business, rail business? What kind of margins one would look at for FY 2025?
We ended with 9,500 for this financial year. I think that's a good range. It'll fluctuate little bit up and down depending on quarter on the imbalance and volume mix, but this is a good range to be in.
Understood. If you could remind us, with respect to Ludhiana terminal, the last we spoke, a fair amount of competition and discounting. Has that seen some reduction, or it's as intense, or it's getting worse?
It continues. It's the same trend as last few quarters.
Understood. Just the port mix, if you could, in terms of Mundra, Pipavav and JNPT. How much of the volume goes to Mundra, how much goes to Pipavav, and how much to JNPT?
Mundra 60%, Pipavav 35%, and JNPT 5-7%.
Understood. Thank you so much. I'll fall back in the queue. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Hi, sir.
Hi.
We were looking at kind of monetizing some of this CFS land. Any kind of progress on that aspect of any of the land being kind of monetized?
Yeah. We just finalized it in yesterday's board meeting. Basically some land of Krishnapatnam we're monetizing. There'll be about INR 20 crores inflow coming in from there. We are looking at some other monetization also, especially Krishnapatnam and Kochi land also that we've talked about in the past. We are in discussion with some parties, and we'll keep you updated as more happens. That INR 20 crores land, basically it was a 1 lakh square feet warehouse and Snowman Logistics will be taking it and converting it into cold storage. It works out for both companies where Krishnapatnam is a high demand location for seafood and they get a readymade warehouse which won't take long to convert and enhance their revenues and margins. For Gateway, general warehousing was anyway an excess activity over there. It's beneficial for both companies.
Okay. The crores that you're selling is external or to Snowman? I didn't quite get that.
No, it's Snowman. INR 20 crores of basically seven acres plus some warehousing. Actually there was additional also through the year, two more acres, so that was also part of it. GDL will be left with about 34, 35 acres in Krishnapatnam, when originally it had started it was at about 48, 49 acres.
Okay. Got it. Secondly, with this Jaipur terminal getting a little delayed in terms of getting all the approvals and thereby starting work on it, what is the progress in terms of other terminals that you were looking at? Are we kind of fast-tracking that? Are we likely to see another terminal being identified and getting operational anytime soon? If you can just talk a little bit about that from a more medium to long-term perspective.
Yeah. Monica, regarding Jaipur, we are going with some alternate plans. Whether the road link, the CFS, which is the CRT just across the land that we have, where the land we do not have issues. I'm talking about that piece of land. Alternatively, we are working a plan if we can buy some more land and if the rail line is possible, then that ICD can be done straight away rather than CFS. It is delayed, but we had anticipated that because of this litigation going on the Jaipur land, a part of it. It will be operational in FY 2026, and we will be taking a call very soon on whether to go for the CFS or straightaway buy some more land and go for ICD. Regarding other clusters, we're still actively looking, but nothing finalized yet.
Land acquisition is a bit of a challenge then. We are actively looking. Hopefully, we can update you in the next quarter on progress.
Sure. Understood. Nothing basically in advanced stages or anything where they're looking at. I'll say at least in FY 2025, there will be no additional ICD which will likely come up.
The ICD might not come up, we might buy some land. We have various opportunities of expanding in UP or even in other side of the NCR in Haryana. The only problem is that the land parcels and the logistics policy which have come in some ways, what if it is being changed, we hope that some relief, like 60 feet wide road and on that, earlier it was 50 acres, and now there's been reduced to 25 acres. During this election period, nothing much was acting on that front. We expect that within this year we will buy the land. But of course, it takes a while to make it operational. One and a half years of the date of acquisition of land.
Right. The other thing was, obviously, the imbalance kind of hurted our rail EBITDA view this quarter. How are things kind of looking ahead into one Q and also the outlook that you're seeing from various shipping lines in terms of an improvement? What was the double stacking index for the full year of FY 2024?
Imbalance for the full year was 43% with an export, 57% import. Double stacking, we went down from 40%-35%, but the first three quarters were all about 40%. It's anywhere around 38%-39% for the full year on double stacking. Going forward, we don't really have a clear trend. Shipping lines also aren't committing to what the mix will be like. Maybe a slight improvement will happen more in favor of exports.
Okay. No material improvement into Q1, we need to look out for beyond that, right?
In Q1, probably we expect double stacking to be better than Q4. Even though imbalance may be not what it was earlier, 60/40, it'll be slightly better than that.
Okay. Great. This helps for now. Thanks so much. Thank you. Wish you all the best. Bye.
Thank you, Monica.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritik Warilia from Arthur India. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon. Am I audible?
Yes, sir. Please go ahead.
I have a couple of questions regarding Snowman Logistics . My first question is, what are the operating margins for owned versus a build-to-suit warehouses?
Can you please repeat your question?
Yeah. My question is, what are the operating margins for owned versus build-to-suit warehouses?
I'll take this question. See, in case of owned warehouse, I'll talk about EBITDA. We are somewhere around 55% EBITDA if the land is owned. If the land is leased, then it is around 35%, 36% EBITDA. When we do a BTS kind of operations where the land as well as the infrastructure is completely owned by the landlord and we rent out the complete warehouse, then the EBITDA is somewhere around 14%, 15%.
14, 15. Understood. My next question is, what is the rent as a percentage of revenue for a build-to-suit warehouses? Also, is the rent only cost difference between the two warehousing models?
Percentage, I will have to check on that. I don't have handy. In case of the difference, yes, rent is the main difference in the whole thing.
Understood. My next question is, what is the reason behind the drop in the margin in transportation services from approx 7.32% in FY 2023 to 3.15% in FY 2024? Also, could you please elaborate on the subdued growth of 5.8% growth in this segment for the year?
In case of transportation, our EBITDA margins have gone up as compared to last year.
Revenue growth. I'm talking about revenue.
Revenue has gone up by 6% in transportation.
Yeah. Also, what is the reason behind the subdued growth of 5.8% in the transportation segment for the year?
Yeah. It is basically because some of the trucks that we had attached under Snowlink business model, it was from one of the large operators in the country who have decided to wind up their business. Those many trucks were out of circulation or usage by us. It took time for us to replace them, which is done now. That has affected our overall revenue from a market vehicle point of view.
Can you just give me a margins for transportation services for this year and FY 2023?
Sorry, your voice is not very clear to me.
Am I audible?
You are audible, not very clear. You're saying margin?
Margins in transportation services for FY 2023 and FY 2024.
We look at the EBITDA margin, and our EBITDA margin in case of FY 2023 was 7.1%, and in FY 2024, it is 8.5%.
My one more question is regarding Snowman Order Management System. I want to know how does it work, and is it a value-added service like Snowlink, or is it an internal software used by Snowman to increase operation efficiency?
It is both. It increases a lot of efficiency for us because today most of the orders comes to us over email, and we make the data entry in our ERP system. With this SOMS, the app is with the customer, and customer can directly enter order. In that case, we can save on the people spend that we do for data entry operations. This will bring in a lot of efficiency for us. At the same time, the app is made in such a way that the customer will have a visibility of our fill rate and their order status, which today is a communication through mail or phone calls. The customer also gets benefited. Over a period of time, we expect that the cost of this whole system is compensated or paid by the customer in terms of subscriptions.
Understood. My last question is, when can we expect the Kolkata and Lucknow warehouse to commission?
Lucknow will be up and ready for use in July and Kolkata will be in September.
Okay. That's all. Thank you for the answers.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Mandre from ICICI Securities .
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. First, that was linked to one of your peers suggesting that Allahabad would be changed to Gati Shakti Terminal. I wanted to get a sense from you whether that presents to us an opportunity to be using that terminal, and whether we'd be interested in doing so.
Yeah. Sorry, your voice was breaking a bit, but were you basically asking about GCT Terminal , Gati Shakti Terminal?
That is true, and whether that presents an opportunity for other players to share.
Yeah. Basically on the rail side of the Gati Shakti Terminal, it becomes a common user terminal. It is open to the new policy of the lower land licensing period. The handling side remains with the terminal owner or operator. We have to wait and watch to see what actually happens, then we can only comment on it.
Understood. The second question that I had was more on your double static stacking quotient, which has been declining over time. Could you give us a sense whether this is because of things outside your control or can we do something to get them back up?
It was pretty stable between, say, 40%-42%. It's just this quarter that it's declined, and that's mainly on account of the Red Sea crisis that happened. There was irregularity of volume. We had to run some empty trains, one directional trains. There was higher under frame, thus resulting into lower double stacking. Like for example, suddenly there was a discharge of a few thousand containers at Mundra Port. We had to run some trains there to avoid port downtime. It was a bit of a commercial call as well. We expect it to go back to the standard 40% within the next two quarters.
Understood. This should have a bearing on our EBITDA per TEU, right? As in, we still saw through flattish guidance for next year. If this double stacking quotient was to increase, would it not have an impact on our profitability?
We would expect that to be higher. We could have possibly gone above INR 10,000 per TEU in this quarter. We do expect some discounting to increase going forward as competition picks up, especially in Ludhiana and Kashipur. We're factoring that in and keeping it conservative at INR 9,500. There are annual increments and costs also, manpower, labor, other vendors also will increase that cost. We're factoring in those as well, but we're saying INR 9,500.
The other question that I had was more on the modal coefficient of key ports and them not having changed even though DFC has been commissioned. I'm talking Mundra and Pipavav. Is this aligned with your expectations so far? What more needs to happen for those coefficients to start rising over time?
Sorry, your voice again was a bit unclear there. Was modal shift from road to rail, you were saying?
Sorry to interrupt. Aditya, sir, if you're using the speaker mode, may we request to use the handset to ask the question, please?
I'm on the handset. Is it any better right now or still the same problem?
No problem, sir. Please go ahead.
Yes. I think you got the question right. The modal coefficient of Pipavav and Mundra Port has not changed meaningfully last five years, while the DFC has been commissioned in the past two years or so. Wanted to get a sense whether this was on expected lines, the way it has moved so far, because we are meaningfully exposed to these port terminals. What needs to change for these numbers to start kind of going up?
Basically, since the start of 2020, they started trials for Mundra Port, Pipavav on DFC and it's been there since then. There was a big shift at that time, especially during most of the lockdowns that happened when dependency on rail increased. Since then it's been a very slow gradual shift. Primarily where the markets we operate are long distance and 88% is probably already on rail. Some of it, which is time-sensitive cargo, which is refrigerated cargo, LCL cargo, that still goes by road and continues to do so because a lot of it goes to JNPT. Once JNPT becomes connected to DFC and double stack also will naturally become a part of that. We expect some road to rail shift from that area to happen. For Mundra Port, Pipavav it's largely happened already.
Okay. Maybe just your view on this one. This is my last question. Haven't DFC has ended up creating a lot more capacity out of the same capacity while giving you low freight volume growth? In some ways, has it been detrimental from a margin perspective so far, at least? Because obviously you run trains faster, which obviously means a lot more capacity is now available, and the pricing starts kind of
Yeah. Sorry, not able to understand. Your voice is coming very-
Oh, I'm sorry. I'll try once more. If it is still a problem, I'll probably get back into the queue. Am I audible to you right now?
Sir, please go ahead. Yes.
Yeah. What I'm trying to say is that, isn't DFC having a margin dilutive effect while kind of creating a lot more supply because things happen faster, okay? While not giving you the added volumes to kind of use that supply, which is actually dropping now. Has it had a detrimental effect on the business so far? We can't see double stacking coefficient having gone up. We can't see the margin, the coefficient going up. Obviously we do see a faster transit time.
Sorry. Yeah. We're only catching like few words here and there. It's coming off, but maybe let's connect offline and we can kind of. I will take your question there.
Thank you.
Sorry. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
Participants-
Participants
If you wish to register for questions, please press star and one on your touchtone phone. Our next question is from the line of Pranay Khandelwal from Alpha Invesco. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I wanted to congratulate Snowman on being the 14 largest cold chain company in the world. I wanted to ask a question on the revenue share from the different segments. For the past three, four years, we have seen that QSR and dairy revenues have increased, meat and poultry segment is not doing well. Any comment on that?
Hello.
Hello.
Yes. Dairy and ice cream have been, the industry itself has been growing good 20% plus year-over-year, last 2 years. The contribution has increased. In terms of meat, most of the meat exports have moved into a rail logistics operations. Strategically also, we are putting less focus on meat as a segment. That is the main reason. Only in few locations we have meat storage now, and we are trying to replace that to another better yield segments. That's the main reason.
Okay. Seafood must be a high yielding segment, right? Being on the ports, I believe a lot of our capacities are near ports. Even there we are not seeing much traction?
No. We have not added much facilities in the coastal areas in the recent past, and most of those facilities are fully utilized. The growth is stagnant as of now. With the new plans that we have in terms of building one in Krishnapatnam and one in Bhubaneswar, the contribution will start increasing. It's only because of capacity that we don't have. People will go there.
Okay. I believe Krishnapatnam and Bhubaneswar haven't yet been started, right? Currently on the pipeline is Kolkata and Lucknow. What's the color on that? When shall we expect them to come on since I think the guidance for the FY 2025 is that we'll have 2 lakh pallet capacity. Any comment on that?
Lucknow is under construction, will be functional in July.
Okay.
Kolkata will be functional in September. In case of Krishnapatnam and Bhubaneswar, we already have one facility in each location, and they are full. We are going for further expansion in these two locations.
Okay. Will that be completed within this year?
Krishnapatnam, yes. Bhubaneswar, no, it will go into FY 2026.
Okay. Also, can you give an outlook for the 5PL business, how are things looking over there? Since it looks like the revenue has been muted, like the growth in revenue. Anything on that, any new customers or anything, any new developments?
No, if you see, last year we did INR 83 crores of business, whereas this year we did INR 131 crores. It is not muted. Maybe last quarter versus this quarter, it could be a little, but-
I am talking quarter-over-quarter.
Okay. This is a very promising segment. In fact, we are expecting major growth in our long-term vision coming out of this segment. It is promising. This quarter is just a short period for this particular vertical to show growth in numbers.
Okay. No new customer also, right?
There is a customer, as I told you last time, and there are more addition of products. It's not typically customer addition, it is usually addition of products that results into higher revenues in this particular.
Okay. Can you also quickly comment on this deferred tax result in this same brief, what has happened over here?
Samit, you would like to comment?
Yes. You are asking us the effective tax rate for last year?
No, for Snowman, for the last quarter, we have seen that there has been increase of the deferred tax.
This was basically the recommendation of our statutory auditor, that we did a one-time reversal of the.
Okay. All right. That will be all. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jainam Shah from Equirus Securities Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, Am I audible?
Yes, sir. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. This question relates to the Gateway Distriparks. We just wanted to have a number from your side, what could be the market share for us at the JNPT port? You have given the number of our volume share at the JNPT, but what could be the market share of us at JNPT in total volumes?
We don't have the data on port-wise, but it will be very negligible since only 5% of our business is for JNPT, and JNPT caters more to UP, MP, Karnataka, the South and Central India part, basically, where we don't operate.
Basically if we see, let's assume after one year JNPT gets connected to the DFC. DFC, our share is very nominal and our total volume share is at 5%-7%. It has been the range over last few years. What kind of benefit we'll be having in the total volumes? Can we assume that whatever could be the DFC benefit is already flowed in for us, and maybe some gradual increase could be there, but nothing kind of a v-shape or direct recovery could be there because of just JNPT getting connected?
Yes. Sorry, the voice was echoing, but I think I got the gist of the question. Basically, right now it's a low percentage, but post DFC connection, we could possibly see a shift in the port allocation by the shipping line. JNPT volumes could possibly go up. Historically, JNPT, Mundra, and Tuticorin used to be equally split for the north business. Because of distance and time, it shifted more towards Mundra and Tuticorin. A lot of shipping lines anyway call on JNPT, so they would prefer one discharge for both north and the local volume. We have to wait and watch how it happens. One advantage that we have is that we have a pan-India license, and not all CTOs have a pan-India license.
We will be gaining more of the JNPT volumes meant for the north compared to the other CTOs that are there right now. Adding in with our hubbing at Viramgam, we can have an advantage in terms of imbalance routing and hub-and-spoke distribution across different terminals from there itself.
Okay. Got it. Other question is related to the ICD addition that we have been talking about. I guess we have been talking about this since last one year. Is it because are we not seeing that much volume that our internal rate of return or maybe land value might not be coming in, because of that we are delaying the acquisition? Or is it we are not able to finalize the location? Any specific reason for the maybe delay or maybe some time that has been taken to around the ICD since last one year as we are having the cash balance and we are already generating the cash, to deploy it somewhere in the business?
Yeah. No, sir. It's more an availability issue. There are a lot of constraints in finding the right location for ICD. You have to be near a railway station, ideally within a one kilometer. You have to have good road access. You have to be near the business hub, probably a manufacturing hub. You need one kilometer length along the railway station to allow you to get the rail siding inside. All of this in contiguous piece at a good rate. With all those factors, it narrows down the available options by quite a bit. We are actively pursuing this, and you should probably see something happen within this financial year. Yeah, it is a work in progress.
Got it. Sir, just last final question from the financial side, this defer tax that we are having benefit of this in the Gateway. Till what time we'll be having this tax rate benefit? Of course, we are paying in cash, but on the reported basis, by what time this benefit will be going out? It was somewhere around FY 2027 or something, right?
Currently we have been paying taxes under MAT, which is 17.40%, because of 80-IA benefit. There are two more locations where we have pending 80-IA benefit, which will continue for one location up to FY 2027 and another location till FY 2028. After that, we'll have the benefit. Maybe if the company's profit goes the way we are going. If there is a growth, then definitely this benefit will get reversed. The deferred tax adjustment will happen in the next Basically, we'll be using the MAT credit that we generate till FY 2027 and FY 2028 by FY 2032 is our projection. Till then, effectively, we're paying MAT, but getting the MAT credit. Right now, our effective tax rate is about 2%. Next year, one location is going away, so it might go up to 5%, 6%.
2027 is when the full tax rate then will start becoming applicable, but we'll use the MAT credit for four years after that.
Got it. That is very useful, sir. Thank you so much. That's it from myself. Thank you, sir.
Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kundan Nia, Nima Gada from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions. First one, I think the line was a little unclear when you spoke of at the beginning of the call. Just trying to understand what is the current situation on the Red Sea crisis? Has the volumes bottomed out in your view in 1Q, or do you see the issue sustaining for a couple of more quarters? If you can help us understand that a bit better, please.
What has happened is that orders have started flowing in, now there is a problem with the port condition because lot of the vessels, they are taking the longer route via Cape of Good Hope. Their rotation is affected and some of the hub ports like Singapore and also there is a port condition also which is upheld. Though the cargo bookings are there, we have seen a minor uptick. Again, it is too early to predict or say that everything will be back to normal. We need to wait and watch maybe another one or two months till the volumes start coming in. If you see the containers are there from the origin to the destination ports. Again, it is taking longer time. The arrivals are getting impacted.
There have been spots wherein one week we've seen very good arrival at the port, then again the next week, again there is a lull. There is no consistency as of now. We have to wait and watch.
Understood, sir. Sir, my second question is on the potential benefit if JNPT gets connected. To answer one of the previous questions, you did allude to the fact that shipping lines may shift some of their volumes to JNPT. That's fine, but if I were to measure our performance from ICDs in hinterland, 80% of those volumes we are already double stacking those volumes, right? Maybe you may have some benefit from 10 kilometer basis, but on a sustainable basis, where do you see potential benefit with that? How do you see market share gain or some kind of benefit from the JNPT connected? If you can help me understand it a bit better, please.
Yes. Basically out of 12 to 15 container train operators, only about four or five have the JNPT license. We are one of them. That's why we should see an increase in market share if volumes tend to shift more towards the JNPT side It will be more the pricing benefit, costing benefit with double stacking coming in and turnaround time also improving. Right now it takes anywhere up to 72 to 90 hours for JNPT. That will come down to 24 hours. We'll be able to utilize our fleet better. That's another operational advantage. There's a lot of cargo, like we mentioned earlier, which is time-sensitive consolidation cargo, LCL cargo, refrigerated cargo that we can start targeting once JNPT leg is complete. Those are the main benefits that we see.
Understood, sir. Thank you very much and all the best.
Bye.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sai Siddhartha Vasukuleeti from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Hello, am I audible, sir?
Yes, sir. Please go ahead.
I just wanted to follow up on the question of my colleague, Aditya Mandre. Basically, has DFC been margin dilutive on our operations given that it has increased supply in the country while not giving much volumes due to any modal share changes not happening? Or has it not improved the double stack coefficient for us on the same lines?
It has increased our margin actually because we've increased our double stacking. Earlier there were certain routes where we couldn't double stack, say Viramgam to Mundra was not one of them, but now we can have all our volumes from north to Viramgam to Mundra and get the double stack benefit. Similarly, Faridabad getting double stacked has also added improvement in margin. It also helps lower the cost of logistics for the end consumer. We do pass on some benefits of the DFC, but we don't have special pricing for DFC or double stacking versus non-double stack routes. We try to retain most of the cost advantage that comes with it.
On the volume trends, how has the effect been, sir?
Volume, like we said, we saw a big shift from road to rail when it initially started, but after that it's been more gradual. DFC is more of a operational benefit thing rather than a revenue benefit event for us. Just by DFC being present, apart from road to rail shift, there won't be any other incremental volume coming because of it.
Okay, thank you.
Just to add to that. I mean, what happens with DFC is that our transit times improve. Like he said, it boosts our supply side. The same volume to handle which we're handling right now, we would have needed more trains if the DFC wasn't there. We are able to maintain our costs. We are able to use our network and hub-and-spoke. With that we are able to be more competitive in the market and attract volumes. That's how we can get volumes using the DFC.
Got it. Thanks a lot.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. Participants missed out due to time constraints. They can reach out to the management and SGA for Gateway Distriparks or Churchgate Partners for Snowman Logistics. We conclude this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.