Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to GMR Airports Infrastructure Limited conference call to discuss Q3 FY 2024 results. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. We have with us today Mr. Saurabh Chawla, Executive Director, Finance and Strategy. Before we begin, I would like to state that some of the statements made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. Also, recording or transcribing of this call without prior permission of management is strictly prohibited. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Saurabh Chawla for the opening remarks.
Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, and good evening, everyone. I'm delighted to welcome our shareholders, analysts, and other stakeholders to our Q3 fiscal 2024 earnings call. The December quarter was nothing short of eventful, not just for GMR but also the economy and the markets. We ended the calendar year on a steady momentum as our traffic saw healthy growth. All the data that we tracked to gauge consumption point out to an inflection point. There is absolutely no doubt that the Indian consumer is upscaling. The analysis of spending data, consumer confidence surveys, income tax, and GST data all reveal that not only is the spending consumer base widening, the spend quality is also improving. The share of leisure travel in the planned wallet spend hasn't compromised over the last two years, suggesting that this category is slowly moving to the must-spend bucket versus optional spend bucket traditionally.
Plans by the aviation ministry and all the industry stakeholders, including GMR, are progressing to build India as a regional aviation hub. Multiple agencies have projected robust traffic growth in years to come. This places GMR in a very sweet spot, as our recent expansion plans at the existing airports are almost complete, and they are ready to handle and serve the expected travel and traffic boom. The hard work that everyone at GMR has put over the past few years is finally bearing fruit. The market has shown faith and started rewarding our efforts over the last one year. I'm also very excited to share that GMR Group was honored by six prestigious awards at the Wings India Awards 2024, the group's highest accolade count till date.
Also, our Hyderabad Airport was ranked number two in the most punctual airports in 2023 globally by Cirium, an industry leader in aviation analytics. The Group and its airports received several other awards, for which I thank all the stakeholders of GMR. On that note, let me now delve into our Q3 fiscal 2024 performance. Momentum in total income continued, with Q3 fiscal 2024 at INR 23.5 billion, up 24% year-on-year, driven by traffic growth, which translated into EBITDA growth of 16% year-on-year to INR 7.9 billion. EBITDA margin for the quarter was at 46% in Q3. On the operational front, we continue to see the growth in traffic. 16% year-on-year growth in Q3, reaching 28.2 million passengers. International passenger traffic share for the quarter was 24%.
We achieved a lot of milestones this quarter. Notable among these are the merger of GMR Airports with the listed GMR Airports Infrastructure Limited is progressing as per plan. The scheme received approval from majority of the equity shareholders, more than 90% of the shareholders of GIL at the NCLT convened meeting held on December 2nd. The application has been submitted before the Honorable NCLT for approval of the scheme. We expect the merger to complete in short period of time, hopefully by within Q1 of fiscal 2025. On the regulatory front, there were a couple of favorable developments.
The first being in case of Delhi Airport, where the Arbitral Tribunal passed its award, excusing Delhi Airport from making payment of Monthly Annual Fee, or MAF, for the period from 19th March 2020 to 28 February 2022 on account of the occurrence of force majeure, that is the COVID-19 period. Delhi Airport was also granted an extension of the term of OMDA, that is the concession period, for 1 year and 11 months. The award can be challenged by Airports Authority, in which case Delhi Airport will appropriately defend the matter. In case of Mopa, which is Goa Airport, AERA, which is the regulatory authority, issued the first tariff order for the first control period from 1 April 2023 to 31 March 2028.
We are in the process of filing the multi-year tariff proposal for Delhi Airport's fourth control period, starting from first April 2024, during this quarter. Given the usual processes involved, we expect the final order to be issued in two to three quarters, which will be effective from 1st April 2024. On the financing front, the group raised about INR 1,950 crore through three-year senior unsecured bonds to refinance its debt. It also raised INR 800 crore in unsecured, listed, rated NCD in December 2023. The gross debt in GAL was about INR 4,681 crore as on 31st December 2023. At each point of financing, the interest rate has moved down. Goa Airport refinanced its project debt by raising INR 2,475 crore through listed non-convertible debentures. Part of the proceeds will also be used to fund the expansion CapEx.
For Bhogapuram Airport, the group received approval from project finance lenders for a debt of INR 3,215 crore with a tenure of 18 years. NIIF, which is the Sovereign Fund of India, also entered into binding agreements for investment into Bhogapuram Airport of up to INR 675 crore in the form of compulsory convertible debentures. Coming to airports, Q3 fiscal 2024, passenger traffic at Delhi rose 9% YoY and 6% QoQ to about 18.8 million passengers. At Hyderabad, traffic was up 17% YoY and 5% QoQ to 6.3 million passengers. Both these airports handled the highest number of passengers ever in December. Goa traffic rose 34% QoQ to 1.2 million passengers.
Goa has handled 3.7 million passengers in current, in calendar year 2023. GAL, which is GMR Airports Limited, completed its acquisition of 11% stake of Hyderabad Airport from MAHB, the Malaysian Airport Group, taking its ownership to 74% from 63%. Progress on building the adjacencies business continues, with Hyderabad subsidiary awarding the concession for F&B business to GAL. Mopa Goa Airport also awarded the duty-free contract to GAL. GMR Group also entered into strategic collaboration with IndiGo Airlines, forming a digital consortium aiming at reshaping the landscape of Indian aviation industry. The key objectives of the consortium are technological innovation, enhanced passenger services, operational excellence and sustainable practices. We also continue to build on our ESG journey. We understand the impact that airports can have on the environment and local communities around them. We strive to minimize this impact as much as possible.
ASQ score at both Delhi and Hyderabad airports was maintained at five for the quarter. CSR spend for Q3 totaled about INR 31 million, with total beneficiaries over 20,000 people in Delhi, Hyderabad and Goa. Delhi, Hyderabad, Goa Airport received multiple awards acknowledging the group's efforts on the ESG front. The presentation with all financial numbers are available with you. If not, you can download it from our IR section on our website. We are available to respond your questions on this call and offline after the call. Now, I would like to open the forum for queries that will be addressed by my colleagues from the corporate and business team. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Nikhil Abhyankar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So, in this quarter, our other expenses, even the interest rate and the depreciation, have gone up.
What exactly is the reason for this?
Swamin, you may want to take this up. Or actually, GRK Garu, why don't you take this up, please?
You're talking about consol, consol. As far as the consol numbers are concerned, the main increase is because there's at Hyderabad, the CapEx has taken place, so there's a capitalization because of Hyderabad, it has increased. Delhi Airport, there is an OpEx cost at the GMR airport level, at the consol if you see. So all those costs, there's a debt, because of that, there's increase because of all those things.
So, mostly whatever the CapEx that they are doing will be regulated, so will it not be reflected in our revenues as well?
It will get reflected once the tariffs have been decided by the regulator. But till that time, because now we are in the process of filing the revised tariff for the Delhi Airport.
Mm-hmm.
Hyderabad has already got the tariffs, and we are stepping up the tariffs this going forward next financial year, 2024, 2025. We have increased tariffs already available for Hyderabad Airport.
Okay, so that will be reflected for both Delhi and Hyderabad from FY 2025 itself.
2024, 2025, Hyderabad Airport will reflect because the tariffs are going up year-on-year basis.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas Delhi Airport will be filing an application most probably, by middle of this month, and expected to get the tariff by first.
Understood. So, and are we confident about getting the tariff order for Delhi, so April?
No. In case of the Delhi, you are asking, the application will be filed by middle of February.
Mm-hmm.
We are expecting the tariff will be determined and implemented 1st, October 2024 only.
From 1st, October.
Yeah, but the tariff will be applicable from 1st April, 2024.
That is for a period of five years.
Over the period of five years. Okay, understood. Thank you. That's all from myself.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aditya Mongia from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity, and congratulations on a strong set of results. I had a few questions from my side. The first question relates to GAL and the contracts that it is winning from the airports. Could you give us a sense on an annualized basis how much revenue EBITDA is accruing right now, maybe from the Hyderabad airport to GAL for such contracts? And maybe two years out, how big can this number become?
Rajesh Arora, you wanna take this up? Maybe give a sense of how businesses are going to...
Oh, sure, sure. The exact numbers, we will—we'll be able to share with you separately. I do not have the exact numbers, but very broadly, the contracts what we got are in respect of the master concession for retail and for the F&B business. And F&B business is done by a joint venture company of GMR Airports. Okay? So, broadly, the F&B could be, the top line could be in the range of about INR 70 crore-INR 100 crore to begin with, but maybe we'll share with you the numbers separately.
Understood. And just to clarify, is Goa also an order that GAL has already bagged? I guess in the tariff order, there was a mention of that, so just confirming. So that's already happened.
So Goa, we have got the contract for duty-free, and we got it for car park and for the F&B business, which is again to be done by the joint venture company of GMR and cargo also. Yeah, cargo was also already there as well.
Understood. I think it will just make it easier for all of us if you could on the call or later on give us a rough sense of how meaningful can this quantum be? Because while we account for costs at the asset level, it is imperative for us to understand also what could be the benefit from a GAL perspective.
Sure, sure. We will share that.
That's the first question. The second question, again, revolved around debt.
Aditya, Aditya, just hold on for a second. Aditya, just hold on. Rajesh, maybe you can give what is the kind of the previous year, you know, what was the kind of revenues in EBITDA this non-aero was generating in the previous year. I think that will be helpful in for the analysts to really understand.
Yeah. So sort of what I was saying that, some of these contracts have just started, and,
No, no, I'm talking about previous year. I'm talking previous year, yeah, not current. Do you have the numbers for previous year?
Look, we have the number of growth on global basis for that. We'll give it separately for the businesses that GAL is going to be doing. That's what I was saying. We'll give it separately for the businesses which GAL has picked up from these airports.
Okay. Sorry, go ahead, Aditya, we'll give you separately.
Thanks, sir, for this. So, the second question revolved around your opening comments on consumption spending. See, if I see your airports on a year-on-year basis, the Non-Aero PAT is still up about 2.5%-3%, in that range. Does GMR have a higher target of growing this number beyond, let's say, 5% on an annualized basis? And what levers, and how soon can that happen?
... Yeah, this is basically regarding the non-aeronautical revenue, where GMR Airports Limited is also one of the concessionaires, I mean, master concessionaires. We have internal target to improve the income per passenger and also spend per passengers. Yes, so we are having, right now, we are seeing the growth around 3%, and we are also having internal target to have the more, more than 5%.
Yeah, I said, you know, whenever we look at non-aeronautical revenue, the growth is, you know, is a combination of what we call it as a spend per pax, plus the inflationary impact coming over there, and the growth in, in the, in the traffic. So a combination of that is what delivers you, you know, the overall growth in the, on, in the top line. In the past, like non-aero revenue growth, we have seen, say, for duty-free, was about 17%-18%. Again, this was a combination of all these three factors, so that continues to be our focus and target when we look at the non-aeronautical revenues.
Understood. So, fair, I get what you are saying. I think for now, those are the questions, but I'll come back in the queue if I have more. Thanks for your response. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Raj Rishi from DCPL. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. I want your comments on how do you see competition from Jewar Airport, especially given the VAT differential which is there for ATF?
Well, on a long-term basis, all airports in India will be very successful, but more than the VAT differential which are there for the airlines industry or the airlines as such, more important than that is what is the underlying community that these airports really service? So, just to give you a little sense, and maybe I've talked about this in many of my earlier calls also, airlines do not like to move from one area to the other area. It's a very high overhead for them, and they want at least a minimum, you know, traffic both from aircraft movements and also passenger movements, so that it's a profitable venture when they price that airport in their itinerary.
So the mere fact that it is an ATF difference really doesn't make a, make much. It is the underlying, you know, passenger, the quality of passenger, the income strata of the passenger, what is the growth that this particular airport will give in the near term, that is far more important. So Jewar, of course, whenever it opens up, we believe will be predominantly freight oriented. It will be predominantly, you know, the low-cost airline traffic, which we encourage to flow from Delhi Airport to Jewar, or to Hindon, or to other regional airports because we look at what our margins are on each passenger, what we earn from each passenger.
We would encourage those traffic to move, and we, as a strategy, keep on capturing the higher share of the high margin business which is associated with full service airlines, both domestic and international, airlines.
Okay. So as of now, you don't perceive any threat as such, or based on whatever you're seeing?
To give you a very cryptic answer, no.
Okay. Okay.
Success of airports is not dependent on ATF.
Gotcha. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. Okay, thanks a lot.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Parv Jain from Nivesh Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Just one question from my end. Can I have some figures for MRO line of business, that we did for this quarter vis-à-vis the last quarter and the previous quarter? By the subsidiary, GMR Cargo.
So, MRO, on an overall yearly basis, will do something close to about INR 300 crore of top line. That's the overall revenue we are looking at, average about INR 75 crore per quarter.
Okay. And presently, this MRO line of business, I mean, are there any plans of expanding it any further?
So, right now, we, you know, I think there's, we have enough of headroom at Hyderabad Airport itself, so any expansion which will come will be, you know, will be at the same location, not going beyond the current place of operation.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Mm.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sanjay Kumar from Acme Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah, okay. First of all, sir, congratulations to you for giving good results. Now, sir, I have a couple of questions. One is, sir, we have got about INR 25,000 crore worth of debt, so unless we bring down the cost of this fund significantly, how we generate profit at the net level, sir? Can you please explain, you know, how do you value such assets when there is less and there is no profit, almost no profit at net level, sir? So, I think GRK Garu, this is a tailor-made question for you. How the cost of debt has continuously declined and how our credit rating has gone up. So maybe you can answer the analyst concern.
Sure, sure, sure. I think the next, the debt of INR 25,000 crore, we look at it, majority of the debt is at the operating assets level. And DIAL has got about INR 13,000-INR 14,000 crore. So DIAL, DIAL is having about INR 8,100 crore, and Goa is about INR 2,500 crore. And of course, GMR Airports Limited level, Saurabh has already explained about INR 4,600 crore. We have been continuously monitoring the interest rates. In case of the Goa, we have just completed, it is less than 10% for five years fixed NCDs. In case of Hyderabad, we have raised it at 8.75%, and in case of Delhi, at a 9.75%. Very competitive interest rates.
Even in case of the GMR airports, we have been substantially reducing our interest costs. Coming to the profitability, over a period of time, since the DIAL has not been getting, it has to get the revised tariffs based on the CapEx, which we are incurring about INR 12,000 crore now, which we are expecting, which is due from 1st, April 2024. We are expecting the new tariffs to be in place by first October.
Okay.
Then all the airports will be in profits, and automatically at the GMR Airports Limited also, we will be coming into the profit level as early as possible, soon after the DIAL's tariffs are implemented. So that is the way now we are looking at it.
Okay, sir, you know, do we have plans to bring down our debt to, say, maybe by 50% or 35% over the next two, three years?
No, let me just come in over here. See, it's a long-term regulated asset, right?
Yeah.
The remaining construction periods are almost 40-odd years.
Yes.
If I can term out, if I can term out my liability, instead of paying that liability in, let's say, next 5 years, if I term it out for next 40 years-
Sure.
and still have a rating of double A plus, it starts to generate, it starts to generate substantial amount of both profitability and free cash, right?
Yeah.
It's a very simple math, very simple strategy.
Okay.
So we are at that inflection point where, like GRK Garu has rightly pointed out, you know, once the Delhi tariff is in place, you will see much better profitability at Delhi. Hyderabad is at a point of time where it is profitable now. It has started to generate decent amount of free cash. Next year will be a very significant amount of free cash from Hyderabad Airport. But last and not the least, is you're only looking at the regulated aero. Please look at the non-aero side of the business.
Okay.
That is the business which does not require capital intensity. It is low on capital, it's very high on margins, and hence very high on profit.
Yeah.
As the business grows, as this business transitions from the airport level to the holdco level, as spend by the passengers grows at our airports, you know, from $11-$12 per passenger to $15-$20 a passenger-
Yeah.
We will start to see significant amount of free cash generation, which will allow the growth, both the assets, Delhi and Hyderabad, to start giving dividends to the, to the listco and eventually the listco to start giving dividends to its, to its shareholders. So the story is that, the story is that, can I, in a very short period of time, start declaring dividends? Because the growth story is already embedded.
Yeah.
That's all you need to look at.
Yeah, I agree.
The mere fact of reduction of debt is not the issue. The fact is, can I, after servicing debt, can I create the free cash? That's the key thing.
So, sir, can we presume next, maybe after two, three years, you will be in a position to declare dividend, come on the dividend list? Is it safe to...
Honestly, honestly, declaration of dividends is a prerogative of the board.
Yeah, sure.
We do not give forward-looking statements and guidances on our profitability. What we are articulating to you is the strategy. If you put the math together, you'll come to your conclusion.
Understood, sir. Understood. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vinay Jain from Karma Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. My question again was largely related to the interest cost, which is there. If we were to see at the consolidated level, we are giving the finance cost is around INR 860 odd crores. From that, if I remove the interest cost of the operating assets or operating entities, which is largely DIAL, GHIAL, and Mopa, that comes to around INR 330 odd crores of quarterly interest. Again, like we have mentioned in the press release, around INR 65 odd crores is related to the Forex thing on the FCCB, which has been issued to ADP. Even if you exclude that, there is around INR 265 odd crores of finance cost, ex of the operating entities.
As per the presentation where we have given largely again, at the corporate end, there is hardly any debt.
... And, GAL has a debt of gross debt of around INR 4,800 crore. So on a gross debt of INR 4,800 crore, a INR 265 crore of quarterly interest payment seems to be slightly on the higher end. So just wanted to understand and get some clarity on that. And secondly, apart from, so again, like if I do a similar thing exercise on the revenue front as well, and again, standalone is around INR 100 crore of revenue. So I get a top line of around INR 300-INR 350 crore, so which I am assuming would be largely related to GAL. So just wanted to understand, firstly again, why such a high finance cost?
Secondly, the debt servicing capability at GAL's end, and any plans to reduce or your debt at GAL end. Those are my three questions.
Sure, they're all interrelated. Thanks for that question, but I think we have answered in bits and pieces in our earlier, you know, guidance to you. You're absolutely right that, the debt at GAL level, that has a higher cost of interest. The reason is that GAL, as on date, does not have, cash flows. Those cash flows will emerge over next three to five years. The debt that has been taken at GAL is primarily for investment into the assets. So it's basically equity funding. You're financing for the equity investment over there. As you may be aware, non-cash flow-based funding usually has a higher interest cost versus the cash flow funding.
So, you know, DIAL and Hyderabad, they would have much lower cost of interest because cash flows are very close to the liability as such, right? In case of GAL, these cash flows, we have to carry this, high-cost debt for next, one to two years. And as the non-aero, revenues emerge and margins emerge, automatically, the rating improves, and the cost of debt at GAL will start to come off. I'll leave it to, GRK Garu, if you can just also highlight that over the last
Yes, yes, sir. Okay, okay, Saurabh. I think he is asking about the quarter interest, where he's referring to-
Yeah, no, no, no. No. No, no. No, no, GRK Garu, please highlight that over the last three financings, how the rate of interest has continuously come down.
Yes, sir. That's what I'm trying to explain, that in case of the DIAL, we have brought down, higher we have brought down. In case of even GMR Airports Limited, now the latest fund raising we have done at 13.275, which was at, at, earlier it was a very high rate of interest. So we have been bringing it down, the rate of interest, continuously. However, to clarify his point for this quarter, I think Goa also there is an interest cost which has hit the P&L account, which is about INR 98 crore. So excluding that, the GAL interest cost is only 161. That's what I want, just wanted to clarify.
No, I was again excluding Goa in my calculation.
So we have INR 857 crore is the total interest, which is at the consolidated level. If you exclude the GHIAL and DIAL and GGIAL, the amount of the balance interest is GAL is INR 161, GIL is INR 46, and one of the adjustment of INR 65 crore. That's all. These are the three components.
You mentioned-
The rest is about INR 10 crore.
What 46 is for which entity? GIL.
GIAL is about 161.
Okay.
GMR Infra is 46, and the GIL adjustment and finance cost about INR 65 crores. These are the three components.
So what is this, INR 146 crore, related to...?
No, no. GMR Airports Limited, 161 is our quarter interest for the INR 4,600 crore.
The second number which you mentioned, second number is GIL, INR 46 crores.
The second one is a INR 46 crore pertaining to GMR Infra Limited.
Okay. Okay.
The third one is INR 65 crore, is also GMR Infrastructure Limited adjustment in finance.
Yes. It's a forex, forex,
forex fluctuation. Yeah.
No, no, so I understand the INR 65 crore. So again, GIL, we are showing it as a net cash company or net zero debt company, right? At the net level.
No, no, FCCB, in the GIL on that we are booking an interest cost.
Okay.
Yeah.
INR 46 crore is pertaining to that, and INR 65 is the-
Yeah.
- forex component.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
The NIIF investment which is coming, so that again, is it classified as debt initially?
No, NIIF investment has come only in Goa. That is equity component only.
Equity. Okay. Okay, understood. And again, any dividend which GAL could be expected, like from, Delhi and Hyderabad, in the current financial year?
No, this current financial year, 2023-2024, we are not expecting any dividend from DIAL or GHIAL. But going forward, as Saurabh has explained, the performance is going up, then we may look at it. It is a board prerogative.
Got it, got it. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks so much for the clarity. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vipul Kumar Shah from Sumangal Investments. Please go ahead.
... Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So sir, my question is, regarding this expansion of Delhi and Hyderabad, so which are almost complete. So what type of increase in aircraft movement and passenger traffic can we expect over the next one or two years? And you said that this new tariff order will be operational from first April, so how it works? So can you explain it in little detail? Because passenger movement and aircraft movement will not increase overnight. It will increase steadily. So how can the profitability improve overnight? So if you can shed some light, it will be really helpful.
Yeah, K Garav, I think you can explain this.
Yes, yes, correct.
Thanks so much.
Yeah, but we are not understanding. That's why we are asking you, sir.
I'm explaining. When it comes to the expansions, both Delhi and Hyderabad are getting completed by before March of this financial year. Delhi is getting expanded current from 66 million to 100 million, and Hyderabad is expanding almost from 16 million to 34 million capacity. Now, how the profitability will come is the regulator, while considering the tariffs, he consider the entire expansion cost and gives the tariff based on estimated traffic. So the traffic, whatever we estimate, basing on that yield per passenger, has been provided by the regulator. That is the reason why we have explained that when the revised tariffs are implemented in case of Delhi, we will get into the good profits.
Hyderabad has already got the tariffs and the next financial year, 2024-2025, the tariffs are actually year-on-year increasing, and next year it will be much higher tariffs. That is the reason why we have projected that there will be a good profit. Number one, the point. Number two, because of the expansion, DIAL was holding back a lot of slots because we didn't have the capacity. The moment expansion is completed, we are expecting we will be able to release more slots and the traffic will substantially grow. As far as the DIAL is concerned, Hyderabad also releases a lot of slots once the expansion is completed, so that will also enhance the entire traffic growth. So because of that, both growth traffic is happening simultaneously, non-aeronautical growth also will happen.
These are all the various factors that will go into the profitability of the company. One is aeronautical tariff determined by the regulator. Number two, increase in the traffic. Number three, because of the increase in traffic, non-aeronautical spend also goes up and our revenues also goes up.
So if tariff for Hyderabad is already decided, so can you quantify what type of increase we have got?
The Hyderabad tariff increase is now this current year, 2023-24 tariffs are INR 400 and INR 700 for the UDF. That is moving to INR 700-INR 1,300 in the next financial year. That is the new tariffs which are coming, which will come into force next financial year.
For both domestic and international, it is same tariff?
No, different. One is INR 700 domestic and INR 1,300 for international.
So domestic is currently 400, if I understood you correctly, right?
That's correct. That's correct.
What is the international tariff as on today, which is moving to INR 1,300?
International as of today is 700. That is moving to 1,360 next year.
Hypothetically, can we assume almost same type of percentage increase in Delhi also?
No. Delhi depends upon the tariff filing and application. Basing on that, the tariff will be determined, so this cannot be replicated in Delhi. It will have its own numbers.
Sir, just trying to understand how we account for our realty values, means revenue from our leasing of realty in Delhi and Hyderabad Airport, means under what head we account for it?
It is called as CPD revenues, commercial property development revenues, other operating revenues in case of Delhi. So current financial year, we are expected to have the total revenues from CPD will be around INR 500 crore. So it is accounted as other operating revenues.
Yeah, but, will it not be a good idea to include it in the presentation of CPD?
Sorry, sorry, sorry. Can we... Let's not this be a conversation. If you have any specific question, these are the other analysts who are also waiting. Maybe you can have an offline with the IR team to understand how, you know, the tariff determination happens and what is happening on each of the airports. We're happy to engage with you one-on-one. Let's do that.
Okay, sir. As you say. Thank you.
Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Raj Rishi from DCPL. Please go ahead. I'm sorry, we got disconnected from the line of Raj Rishi. Next question is from the line of Aditya Mongia. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the follow-on opportunity. My first question related to the investment being made by NIIF. If I'm not wrong, both investments in Goa and Bhogapuram would be in an equity-like structure. That being the case, what is the kind of stake that NIIF would be having over a period of time in these assets for the investments that they're putting inside?
... up to 49%, both Goa and Bhogapuram.
Okay. But is there a, if it's, as in up to 49%, so they have invested INR 600 crore in both these assets individually, or they will in Bhogapuram as well as in Goa. Can you give us some more color as to whether this number will be close to 49 or, like, way off? Because we're just trying to get a sense of the terms behind the-
Aditya, at this stage, you assume it is 49%. Depending upon the performance of the airport, it could be lower, but from your analysis, assume 49%.
Understood. The second question that I had was, the net debt number, which has increased on a Q on Q basis. Do we have a fair sense that this number should start kind of topping out somewhere in fiscal FY 2025? I'm just trying to get a better sense, because I understand that Bhogapuram will be in CapEx zone. Goa may start doing so, but we also have higher tariffs.
Yes. So you're absolutely right. I think, debt should start to peak in fiscal year 2025 or end of fiscal year 2025. I think that would be because, there will be spend on Bhogapuram, but that Bhogapuram spend is over a period of three years. So, I think fiscal year 2025, the debt should start to peak.
Understood. And one question on the Delhi tariff order. Maybe a clarification. When you're putting in the tariff order from your side, the numbers from your side, are you assuming both the benefits of CapEx as well as the TDSAT ruling, or how is it going to happen?
Yeah, entire CapEx, whatever we are incurring around INR 12,000 crore is part of our application, and also whatever the relief provided by the Supreme Court and TDSAT will also be included.
Understood. Do you require both these components to become profitable in FY 25 in Delhi, or just one would also do?
No, basically, it all depends upon the tariffs, but we expect that the tariffs will substantially go up. So we cannot comment on the profitability right now, but the substantially there will be increase in the tariffs.
Got it. Those are my questions. Thank you for your response. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Raj Rishi from DCPL. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. What sort of real estate do you have across assets available for monetizing?
Delhi, we have almost 100 acres yet to be monetized.
Okay.
And obviously, real estate is all dependent upon local regulations of FAR, so that number can move depending upon FAR changes that may be forthcoming in Delhi. That's number one. In Hyderabad, we have little more than 1,000 odd acres yet to be monetized. But just to give you a little sense of where the cap values of the land parcels are, Delhi, I think, should be touching more than INR 150-INR 180 crore per acre. Whereas, in Hyderabad, we have done recently at a cap land cap value at about 12 or 13 crore an acre. So I'm giving a broad brush kind of numbers here.
Okay. And what about Goa, sir?
Goa, we have. Go ahead, go ahead, yeah.
Goa will be starting with around INR 10-12 crore per acre in the NPV value. So it will keep going up once we start monetization.
How much, how many acres are there in Goa?
232
232, okay. So any timeframe where we can have sizable monetizing this year, next year, when can you give some timeframe as to the monetizing?
Goa, this current financial... Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.
What?
Sir, Goa, we are planning to monetize around 10 acres this financial year. Next financial year is about 25 acres.
And...
Hyderabad, sorry, Hyderabad is working out maybe around 50-60 acres. And in Delhi, some work is going on, and as it is, we have released already INR 4.99 billion to Bharti. So, it may take a little more time, but next year also there will be some pipeline. Exact number has not yet been worked out.
Okay. Okay. Okay, thanks.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vinay Jain from Karma Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the follow-up. Could you please let us know the tariff which has been set for Goa for domestic and international?
Yeah, the tariff has already been implemented on first January 2024. We have already implemented the tariffs. The yield per passenger we have got in case of the Goa is almost about INR 830. So that has been implemented. It is valid for a period of five years.
... So 820, so again, around INR 800 for domestic and INR 1,100 for international. Is that correct?
Yeah, the numbers are already there. That is correct. With the domestic and international, they are separate rates.
Understood. And, the last question was, the pledge again, for the promoters. So, with this merger scheme underway, is releasing pledge a prerequisite, and can we expect the pledge to get released over the next, say, six months or so, till the time the merger scheme gets implemented?
No, there is no prerequisite on the pledges being removed for the merger. I mean, it has no impact, because these pledges are at a promoter level, not at the listed entity level, right? So, they're pretty much independent. The merger, as we have indicated in our presentation, we are targeting by end of Q4 of this fiscal year. As a guidance, being cautious because we still just the listing has not happened at the NCLT. We have said that by first quarter of fiscal 2025, we should complete the merger. Shareholder approvals are all in place. Creditor approvals are all in place, so it's only a court process that has to be taken forward. With respect to the pledges at the promoter entity level, I think, they remain pretty much static.
I mean, three years back, it was about INR 3,500 crore. Today, it will be about INR 4,000 crore because the interest has improved on it. While the stock has gone up from INR 25 to almost INR 80. So as a percentage, the pledges have come off. They don't reflect in the regulatory filings, but they will soon reflect in that sense. So over a period of time, I think, these pledges will come off and it is a stated objective and desire that we should neutralize to zero. So it's work in progress, but it'll happen soon.
But we are not putting a timeline on it, right?
No, no, we don't put... we don't give any guidances on numbers, neither we on profitability. We just give you general, general guidance as to what the strategy is.
Understood, sir. Yeah. Thank you so much.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask questions. Next question is from the line of Lakshman. Sorry, we got disconnected from the line. I would now like to hand the floor over to Mr. Saurabh Chawla for closing comments.
Thank you. Thank you all for joining this Q3 call. The IR team, led by Amit, are available. We will answer all your questions offline, whatever is left, and any data points that has been requested. We are available. Just send us an email and we will respond back immediately. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of GMR Airports Infrastructure Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.