Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Havells India Q1 FY 2025 Earnings Call. As a reminder, all participants line will be in the listen only mode, and there will be the opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference has been recorded.
I now hand over the call to Mr. Aniruddha Joshi from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and you too, Mr. Aniruddha Joshi.
Thanks, Sumit. On behalf of ICICI Securities, we welcome you all to Q1 FY 2027 results conference call of Havells India Limited. We have with us today senior management represented by Mr. Anil Rai Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Rajesh Kumar Gupta, Whole Time Director and Group CFO, Mr. Ameet Kumar Gupta, Whole Time Director, and Mr. Rajiv Goel, Executive Director. Now I hand over the call to the management for initial comments on the quarterly performance. We will have the question and answer session.
Thanks, and over to you, Anil Rai Gupta, sir.
Thank you. Good evening, everybody. Thank you for attending the call today. Hope you would have reviewed the results by now. We delivered strong revenue growth in the first quarter as the demand was resilient despite inflationary pressures and the uncertainties arising from the West Asia situation. During quarter one, a decent summer supported cooling products demand, although a delayed onset restricted the full benefit of the season. Given significant raw material inflation, we undertook calibrated and staggered price hikes across the categories to offset the impact. Encouraging to see that the consumer categories held well and absorbed price hikes. Each category showed strength, and we are positive to build further from here. Renewables Business continued to scale rapidly with robust growth in revenues, leveraging sector tailwinds.
From this quarter, we have begun reporting Renewables as a separate segment. During the quarter as planned, we significantly stepped up brand-building efforts led by mass media with advertising spends more than doubling year-over-year. While this frontloading of investments impacted the quarter profitability, these will normalize during the rest of the year. We expect the demand environment to improve further and have a healthy outlook on the margins.
We can now move to Q&A.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. The first question is from the line of Balasubramanian from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Sir, on the lighting side, I think earlier you have confirmed about ASP declines have stabilized. How is that pricing and volumes for this quarter, sir?
Yes. As far as lighting is concerned, we have said that the pricing has stabilized. In fact, we may start seeing some price hikes in the coming times because of the electronics. Otherwise, generally speaking, it has stabilized and hence we are seeing some volume growth now in the business.
Okay, sir. Sir, on the switchgear side, majorly impacted by West Asia export disruptions. I'm trying to understand what is the mix of domestic and international for Switchgears, and is there any margin difference profiles compared to domestic and the international side? We have seen around 260 basis point margin erosion in that segment.
Rajiv, would you like to take this?
Yeah. The international business is normally 15% but it will very from quarter to quarter. That's why it has been impacted. We are expecting this to rebound this quarter. It primarily happened because there are no vessels going to there, things have considerably eased since then. We are very confident that Q2 will see a good growth in the international and the overall switchgear segment. The domestic demand has been fairly stable.
Okay, sir. My last question on the renewables side. I think we have seen impact on the margin side, whether if you could quantify in terms of products mix shift higher in terms of higher share of solar pumps, maybe lower margin versus other products and competitive pricing pressure on solar module market and raw material side. We could break down those impact on the margin side. If you could also explain whether it's timing of the project side or is there any other reasons?
I think you're asking about renewable. Still is not very significant in this. I think that should come in the ensuing quarters. Largely it has been because there has been a strong demand on the panel side. As you know, panels have slightly lower margin than the inverters. That also we expect to improve in the coming quarters. I think renewable, we believe, is holding pretty well in the margins considering the industry scenario. As we move more towards the consumer side of the business, we are expecting improvement in the margins on renewable side as well.
We can expect in the H2, sir?
Yeah, that's right. Next quarter.
Okay. Got it, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Natasha Jain from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. Good evening, gentlemen. My first question is, if I see across the major revenue contributors, which is Lloyd, ECD and cables, our top-line growth has slightly lagged the industry growth. First off, I want to understand, is it because we took sharper price hikes and therefore maybe lost on volumes? If that is the case, from a very medium to long-term perspective, could you call out what is the right mix between volume and pricing, especially given that there's intense competition across these categories? That's the first one.
See, I think especially as far as Lloyd and ECD is concerned, this particular quarter was the quarter where there was maximum volatility, especially in the second and the third quarter. Sorry, fourth and the first quarter. There have been continuous price rises, raw material price rises, we have taken staggered steps of price hikes. At this point of time, sometimes we are inward-looking, hence we took calibrated price hikes. We do believe that we've taken the right steps towards price hikes, keeping an eye on market shares, as well as the fact that we have been making some improvements in our distribution policy, wherein a lot of focus has been ensuring that we do not unnecessarily load the channel, basically improving their return on capital.
A lot of things were happening in the first half of the year, first half of the calendar year. I do believe that on a long-term basis, including if we take secondary sales from the channel, we do believe that we have done a very robust job of ensuring that we do not lose any market share or in fact gain market share.
Understood. My second question is on the ad spend. While it's highly appreciated that Havells continues to be a consistent spender here, what's the ideal timeframe wherein we can expect such aggressive ad spends to translate to revenues, and more importantly, volume growth? On those lines, sir, if you could just call out the volume growth for Lloyd, and if we are seeing any brand pull traction there.
No, I think, first of all, as far as advertising spends are concerned, basically this is just a readjustment of our strategy between above the line and below the line, and between categories. One question is whether this will get normalized. Yes, it will get normalized. How much it translates into volumes and value, usually advertising is a long-term investment, and over a period of time, it relates to volume growth, value growth, premiumization. It's not something like a FMCG where it's an impulsive buy. Advertising has always been looked at as an investment for a long period of time.
Hence, even during the year, it will get normalized, but there was more front-ending in the first quarter because of the seasonal products. What was the second question? Sorry.
Sir, on Lloyd, the volume growth.
Yeah, the volume growth in air conditioners would be single digits, the value growth has been higher because of the calibrated price hikes during the first half of the year.
Got it. Thank you so much. All the best.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Umang Mehta from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. The first question is on A&P. For the full year, I mean, last year you spent something around INR 600 crore. Possible to share any kind of budget which you would have for the full year this year? How should we think about this now going ahead? Do you think this is a new base on which we keep on growing every year? Do you see this as a lumpy, episodic kind of investment you're making as of now? That's the first question.
No, as I said, lumpy could be during quarters and all that, but over a longer period of time, it's just a readjustment between the media that we've looked at. Maybe there is a slight impact during the entire year, and maybe there's a readjustment, but as a percentage of revenue of consumer products, I think over a longer period of time, four to five years, we will be remaining consistent.
Got it, sir. Sir, any budget you can share for the full year? Should we take north of INR 700 crore, INR 800 crore?
Yeah, somewhere around that number.
Yeah. Look, our long-term average has been around close to 2.7% as a company as a whole. I'm not getting into consumer otherwise. We expect that to remain the same even for the current year.
Got it, sir.
We expect that to percentages.
Sure. Thanks. Second question was on renewables, given that you've called that out as a separate segment, any aspirations or targets you'd like to share from. Can we annualize the current run rate, or do you think there are certain tailwinds which are specific to 1Q? How should we think about this segment? Thanks.
I think if you look at renewables a bit more strategically, our focus will be looking into various categories of renewables which are adjacent to our brand and distribution. We are looking at installations in, not utility scale of installations, but more residential homes, commercial and industrial establishments. Also looking at more strategic inputs for the future, battery energy storage solutions, EV chargers. These are the kind of categories that we are getting into, where we can utilize and leverage our brand and channel.
Sure, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question come from the line of Rehan from Trinetra Asset Managers. Please go ahead.
Hello, good afternoon. Sir, I have two questions. First on the management has given the guidance in the last call. In the last two management declines to give specific FY 2027 growth guidance due to market volatility. Given this quarter's result, can you now provide a clear view on full year revenue and margin expectations? This is my first question.
I think if you've attended calls for a long period of time for Havells, we do not give guidance for the year. Yes, the quarter start has been very positive and we are hopeful that a good resilient growth momentum will maintain during the year.
My second question is around your price hikes across multiple categories. The company implemented calibrated price hikes across multiple categories to offset raw material inflation. Yet contribution margin remained broadly stable around 18.3%. Going forward, commodity prices remain elevated. Do you believe there is still pricing headroom available, or will future margin improvement depend more on operating leverage and product mix than further price increases?
I think that will be part of the initiative definitely because it will be led by the growth. Look, these prices have been increased to compensate, but there are usual price increase, which happens also, you see once in a year. Those will always be undertaken. Then the contribution margin you're looking at is also a product mix. We do expect, and we are seeing certain growth momentum in our other categories as well. As they grow, we are expecting to grow our contribution and the overall profitability much higher than the value growth in sales itself. It will be dual play. It will be the whole leveraging, but we'd also be growing the high growth categories as well.
Okay. Thank you for your clarification, and I'll join the next queue.
Thank you. The next question come from the line of Indrajit Agarwal from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you for the chance. A couple of questions from my side. For the cable segment, can you split out between the value and volume growth in this quarter? How has it differed in wires and cables?
Volume has been largely flat, very, very low single digit, but I will term it more as flat, and this is across wires as well as cables.
Sure. In renewables, would it be more volatile or the quarter run rate is something that we can maintain? At what top-line level we can see more insourcing than outsourced model?
Look, as you are aware, I'm coming to insourcing, outsourcing first. The strategic investment in Goldi which we made was the part of a very planned execution that. Goldi, I don't know if you put it outsourcing or insourcing because this was a strategic decision taken on that, I think which has held well because now as there is so much glamour, I think we are able to sort of have a very significant and assured supply chain there. I would term this as a strategic insourcing rather than outsourcing to that extent. Inverters we have been doing ourself in-house. The other categories we are talking about, there will be very strong strategic tilt towards that. A lot of them will be done in-house either through the assembly or through the technical collaboration.
As far as the, I think the sectoral tailwinds are strong and the way we are looking at the adjacencies as well. We are hoping internally that we should continue to grow well in this category because this is a strong economic imperative for renewables in India, which is also reflecting how the government is supporting this initiative. We are very positive on this, and we expect it to become a larger segment, and that's the reason why we have also carved out renewables so that it can be tracked both by the company as well as our investors on how we are doing this. I think it just demonstrates our faith and belief in this category and the growth in factors there.
Sure. Thank you for the detailed answers and all the best.
Thank you. The next question come from the line of Siddhartha Bera from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity, sir. First question is on the cable and wires. If we look at the gap between the contribution margin and EBIT margin, it seems to have gone up a bit in the current quarter. Is it because of ad spend or if you can highlight what has led to this? Second question is, sir, on the price hikes and costs. If you look at, say, ECD or Lloyd, how much have we taken in terms of price hike in the current quarter, and how much more do we need to take to pass on the current costs?
I think as far as your first question is concerned, yes, it is due to higher A&P spends during the quarter. It's across the businesses, not just cables and wires. As I have said already, during the year, it will get normalized. We do not expect any major changes in the overall profitability for various divisions. As far as price hikes are concerned, look, different product categories require different price hikes depending upon the kind of raw materials used in that category. Generally speaking, 7%-8% would be the right price hike average if you take it.
Whether everything has been passed on, we were actually disciplined enough to say that we have been able to pass on the entire cost, but some of the remnants of some averages might be coming in the second quarter. I would say most of the price hikes have already been taken now in a staggered manner.
Okay. At current commodity costs, we should ideally see margins improving from the coming quarters, if it stays at that level.
No, I think raw material prices have also moved up in a staggered way, and price hikes have also moved up. I would say we will now see the normalized margin levels.
Got it. [crosstalk]
Contribution margin levels.
Okay. second question is, sir, on the Lloyd. I mean, Lloyd, we used to do a double-digit contribution margin, which has now been in high single-digit for quite some time. Given the competitive dynamics and your focus, do we anytime soon see that going to the double-digit levels, or do you think that may take longer now given the industry?
No, I think except the non-seasonal quarters of second and third quarter, but we should be seeing double-digit sooner than later. All this has happened also due to the volatility and timing differences between passing price hikes and all that. Otherwise, in full quarters, we will definitely see it coming back to double digits.
Got it, sir. Thanks a lot. I'll come back in the queue.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Praveen from PL Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. My first question is related to the pricing. Sir, last quarter, Q4, you indicated 5%-20% of a price hike implementations. Is there some challenges have you faced in adoption of those price hikes in this last quarter Q1 as well?
I would not say challenges have been faced. I think challenge was to pass on the price hike and which we've been able to do it successfully. As I say, I always remain skeptical about what it means for the volumes. Thankfully, the demand remained resilient in the first quarter, and hopefully in the coming times also, it should remain resilient. Any improvement there on in terms of raw materials or the world situation, definitely it will be either further passed on or reduced. As of now, we believe that we have been successfully able to pass on the price hike.
Okay. Second question, sir, is related to the CapEx, nearly around INR 1,400 crore odd of a CapEx for 2027, what we had given in the press release. Can you give us some color on the bifurcation on the segment-wise, where it is going for a full year in this number?
The bigger part of that is going into the cables and wires business, almost about INR 800 crore. About INR 200 crore is going into the new R&D center. The rest is all driving to other business.
Last question, sir, related to your collaboration on the BESS. If you can give some more color on the revenue and the margin visibility and when that's going to contribute to the numbers, this Pixii collaboration. How is going to work, whether you are going for a manufacturing of those assembly, of those, or just a distribution you are planning for?
I think these are early stages to discuss this on the call right now, one, and two, it's anyway part of the overall renewables strategy. As things pan out, we will be coming back with more information, but it is too early to comment on it.
Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sonali from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you for the opportunity. My first question is if you could shed some more light on the weaker performance in Switchgear, both in terms of demand and margins, especially because this is your highest margin segment. How should we look at this segment going forward in the coming quarters? I do understand you have mentioned in your press release that the demand has been impacted because of West Asia crisis. Since we are amongst the key market leaders, a 4% decline in sales year-on-year and with a margin dip seems a bit concerning to me, which is why I'm asking this question. Thank you.
No, I think one is not only the West Asia crisis, but it's also Switchgear is one of those business where, again, volatility of raw materials was high, and it impacted the entire passing on of. I would say because of this volatility in raw materials, there was also confusion amongst the trade also on buying products. I think it has fairly stabilized, which should mean that the demand should be coming back from the second quarter. Hopefully, the international situation may also improve, but at least the domestic demand will remain stable from here. It seems so.
Sir, how much is our sales since Switchgears is from international, just in the context of what you said?
15%.
Understood. Got it. Very helpful. Sir, my second question is, you did mention about the category price size on an average about 8%. Would you be able to help us understand which category on an average, how much price? I understand you don't give outlooks or guidances, but how should we look at the margins in the coming quarters? As in a broader range, should we expect it to revert back to our normal 9%-9.5%? I'm talking of EBITDA margin.
No, I think, again, as far as price sizes are concerned, we have ranged between, let's say, 5%-20%. Cables and wires have seen a larger price increase because of direct relation with copper and aluminum. Otherwise, as I said, most of it is averaging about 7%-8%. As far as margins are concerned, going forward, I think we are looking at stabilizing contribution margin. I would not so much comment on EBITDA margin because there's a lot of things associated with that, volume growth and all that. At least contribution margins, we do believe, have done very good work in terms of managing the volatility in the raw material prices. Hopefully these things should remain stable in the coming quarters.
Understood. Sir, just one last question, sort of a confirmation. For the CapEx for FY 2027, we should expect at about INR 14 billion, right?
INR 1,400 crores, yes.
Okay. All right. Thank you so much, sir, and all the best to the team.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nitin Shakdher from Green Capital Single Family Office. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon to the management. This is a question not as an analyst, but more as an investor. Obviously, the renewal business is showing excellent growth rate. I just wanted to get a sense of what the management is thinking in terms of revenue and top line in the future from the renewals and the strategy towards that, because it's showcasing a lot of positive revenue offtake and huge growth. If you could just talk us through some strategic aspects of the renewal business for this year.
See, I would say that having looked at this business, especially with the Goldi investment last year, we are looking at this business very strategically and for a very long period of time. We made huge investment, in fact, for ensuring our supply chain for the coming years. Basically, if I look at it strategically, we are very hopeful that this business can become very big. We are basically evaluating all the possible places where Havells could actually make sense, not only as a business, but also as a supplier to the renewable category. When we are talking about renewables as a business, that's just one business. Also you can understand when all this CapEx and investments are happening in the country, a lot of our products, including Switchgears and Cables, is also positively getting affected by that.
Having said that, I think, the future will also depend upon how the government looks at this, how the regulations looks at it, what kind of manufacturing happens in India, what kind of tariffs are there, what kind of subsidies are there for the consumers and users. There will be a lot of moving parts to this business. I would only say that, I think India has a great future in renewables, and Havells wants to play a part in that. I also mentioned that we will be looking at it not at a utility scale, but more at the consumer and commercial industrial installation. That's how we are looking at this segment. There are tailwinds, and hence it's reflecting in good growth in this year. I think we have a very positive outlook for the entire category.
The second question is, you obviously mentioned that because of doubling of ad spends and raw material pressures, bottom line has been at least hit for the first quarter a little bit. Obviously, looking at a future outlook by the close of next year, do you anticipate to recover the net profitability and come up to a certain level that showcases a growth, or do you anticipate this year to be a bit flat? What's your anticipation in terms of the margins which have been hit on the net profit for the first quarter and going ahead for the second, third, and fourth quarter?
I think, without giving any guidance, I can say that we are, one, on the A&P spend, things will normalize for the entire year. There will be initial bump in this year because we do believe that we need to get back to that percentage of what Raju just mentioned, between 2.5%-3% of the spend for the brand for building long term. I've also said that, we are looking at hopefully stabilized margins in the coming quarters also. I mean, we've proven our fact that we've been disciplined in pricing despite the volatility in raw materials. There is a constant eye on the margin as well as managing spend. I do see that we should see improvements in this year, both in volumes and profitability.
Thanks a lot, all the best to the Havells family. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you are requested to restrict your question two per participant. The next question comes from the line of Jatin Sangwan from Optiver. Please go ahead.
Thanks for taking my question. My first question is related to A&P spends and the market share that we're continuously losing in AC. Because if you think of medium-term to long-term, to get the customer top of mind share, you have to continuously spend on A&P to get that share back, and this will result in your increasing market share in AC. Of course, the AC season is over, and you may not spend too much on marketing for the next two quarters, but let's say when the Q4 of FY 2027 comes or Q1 of FY 2028 comes, how do you think of this advertising and promotion spends?
I think there are two things to advertising spends as far as Lloyd is concerned. One is ensuring that we remain top of the mind awareness for the consumer during the season, but also to ensure that we build a long-term premium image for the brand. These two aspects we are always keeping in mind when we are advertising for Lloyd. Having said that, yes, the first quarter was primarily dependent upon not just ACs but other product categories also. Coming to fourth quarter also, we should be looking.
The way we look at it is that Lloyd spends on A&P will remain elevated for the next couple of years because there is a dual requirement of also premiumizing the brand in the product categories. The kind of quality and the features that we give in our products need to be communicated to the consumers for a longer period of time.
Got it. My second question is on wires and cables. If I compare it with our competitor who reported a couple of days back. They have reported high single-digit growth in wires and low-to-mid single-digit growth in cables over a very high base that they had while we are almost flat. Of course, our margins have also declined. We do actually need to win in that segment, and there we are losing to some of our competitors. How do you plan on gaining that market share back in wires and cables?
I think, as I said, that especially in domestic wires, we have done a very good job in terms of not only ensuring that our contribution margins continue to remain the way they are. Also, as I mentioned, we've made certain that our distribution strategy changes to ensure that we become more of a sellout brand rather than just a sell-in brand, which also impacted some volumes at the end of the quarter where suddenly the prices have started going down. We are becoming more of a sellout brand. As far as cables is concerned, we are seeing very good growth, but also it is linked to the capacity expansion which are happening. I would say that the whole idea of winning in this business in cables is more capacity expansion, ensuring that we continue to build our capacity there.
Also in wires, we continue to keep customer confidence very high in terms of brand and distribution channels. I think that you may have seen that we had also during the quarter, we had spent part of our advertising promotions on wires as well. I do believe that we have a very positive model, long-term prospects for cables and wires put together. If you're talking about lower margins, that also is affected by the fact that there was disproportionate spends on advertising and promotion for the quarter, which will normalize over time to come.
Just a follow-up on this, and this is the last question from my end. When you say you are spending higher on wire and cable side also, and still it is not resulting in sales for us. Of course, you may say that it will result in coming quarters, but over the time, we have seen that we have been consistently losing market share to the competitors. How do you think of this advertising strategy in wires and cables, and when will it lead to results?
I think I don't need to repeat my answer. I've already answered.
Okay, sure. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Keyur Pandya from ICICI Prudential Life Insurance. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Sir, first question on the Lloyd side, room air conditioners. Because of our product placement timing last year, Q1 itself, we had a low base versus industry, and even last quarter was a low base for us. Despite that, when Q1 numbers are relatively lower in the last summer season. Is there any change in strategy or some moves? Apart from that, any market share loss that you think you have reported in your consecutive sales side?
I think initially I had mentioned that as a company, we have made certain improvements in our distribution system where we are becoming more of a sellout brand, and same is the case with Lloyd as well. We are focused right now on the sellout from our channel. Because of the BEE rating changes, there were certain stocks which were pushed during the third quarter and the fourth quarter in the channel. We do believe along with the delayed onset summer during April, we have been able to have a decent sellout from the channel. Sell-in may have been affected, but I think over a long period of time, this should get stabilized.
Okay.
We can use as a measure. This is also during the entire volatility in the raw materials. Sometimes during a particular quarter or a half. Some clients may choose, you know, a different [audio distortion].
Hello?
I think there's some disturbance. Yeah, there's some disturbance with line.
There is no market share loss.
We do believe that allowed this to Yeah. You can separately connect with our IR department. I'm sorry for--
Sure.
Can't hear you.
Second question, on profitability of [audio distortion].
Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Pandya. Your voice is not audible.
Am I audible now?
Hello. Can you please speak? Yes, you're audible. Say.
Okay. Last question is on the profitability of switchgear and ECD. Apart from the A&P spend this quarter, for last two years, we have seen a decaying profitability of these two segments. When you say normalization of margin, what will be normalized margin? That is one point. Second, specifically to switches and Switchgears, for last three or four years, our absolute EBIT has remained same, even with lower sales growth. Probably we have lost market share as well as profitability. Any outlook on switches and Switchgears?
Can't really hear properly. You're saying that the switchgear margin, the normalized margins are somewhere between 37%-40%. That's the question that I understood.
Okay. Let me connect it separately. Probably some issue with my connectivity. Thanks a lot and all the best.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good evening. Thank you for the opportunity. Just wanted to check, in terms of the cable segment, how are you seeing the momentum? Was there any pain in terms of the demand in last couple of quarters, or it is purely to do with the teething issues in the asset ramp-up for us in cable segment, sir?
I think cable segment we've been doing well. We've been ramping up our capacity and I don't think there are teething issues. We are actually gaining good growth in the cable segment. The challenges that could have seen in the last couple of quarters is the volatility in raw material prices. Sometimes, certain times material gets pushed or sometimes there is a slow pickup because of suddenly the volatility, raw material prices start going down. Other than that, on the cables, I think, we are on the planned track of increasing capacities and increasing sales.
Fair. Just one question I had with respect to solar cables. In terms of offering, do we have all the relevant SKUs and what is the contribution of solar cables for us and also, if possible, for the industry? Just your thoughts on the same, sir.
We do have the entire range. We'll come back to you. I think if you talk to our IR, they can give you some more color on this.
Sure. That's all. I'll fall back in the queue. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Rabindra Nath Nayak from Nirmal Bang Securities. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Thank you. Sir, in this quarter, there is a significant rise in the A&P spend. Is it possible to quantify how much it has gone from Lloyd and how much non-Lloyd business of the company? If at all you are targeting INR 800 crore and how much you are planning for Lloyd and the rest of the business of the company. Thank you.
Yeah, the breakup we don't give. Normally, Lloyd depends upon also the quarterly because it's very seasonal. Overall, NR, I don't think we have given any guidance for INR 800 crore. As we said, this should be normally around 2.7%, 2.8% of the net sales, which has been the trend for the last few years.
For this INR 286 crore, any idea that how much it has gone from Lloyd and non-Lloyd business?
As I said, we do not give bifurcation on the division-wise.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Sameer Gupta from IIFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir, and thanks for taking my question. First question is on Lloyd. I understand this question has been answered during the course of this call, I'm just trying to find my interpretation here. You are saying that there is an impact due to higher sell-ins in previous quarters and normalization of that has taken place, plus staggered price hikes over the course of the last two quarters that might have impacted primary offtake. Would this be a correct interpretation?
Yes, a few other reasons also, primarily these two reasons.
Sir, just a follow-up on this. Basically, higher sell-ins in previous quarters should have then resulted in higher growth in the previous quarters, which I'm not able to see. Is it that the last year the sell-ins were very high and that is normalizing now?
You see, if you remember last year, there was a very bad season. A lot of de-rating changes happened at the end of December, plus the volatility in the raw materials in the first quarter. I've also mentioned that Havells and Lloyd both have gone through a change in the distribution strategy for the company, which we believe is a foundation for very positive growth in the coming quarters. All this put together, yes, it has reflected in this growth that we have achieved in the first quarter.
Thanks for the detailed answer, sir. If you could just elaborate on this change in distribution in Havells and Lloyd that you're talking about.
I think for the purpose of this call, I would say that, as both Havells and Lloyd have become more sell-out oriented than sell-in oriented.
Basically primary aligning with the secondary, that's what it would mean, right, sir?
Yes.
Got it. Thanks. Second question, if I may squeeze in. Ad spends, if I'm looking at this quarter, and again, this has been discussed, pardon me if something that I've not been able to interpret correctly, but on an absolute and as a percentage of sales, both, it is among the highest that we have done in any quarter. Especially in a quarter where there is RM pressure across the board. Is it driven by any major event like an IPL or something? Just wondering if this could have waited.
That depends upon the strategy of the company. Company looks at the long term. All the raw material fluctuations and everything are short term. Brand building is long term. If I would have been too concerned about quarter on performance, then of course, I would have definitely said that, it can wait on. I think brand building is a continuous activity. As I said, we have relooked at the entire strategy of A&P, and that's where it led to us coming back to certain media or certain product categories. That's the only thing. Otherwise, nothing.
As I said, the difference between thinking long term for certain things and short term for certain things.
Got it, sir. That's very detailed. Thank you so much. I'll come back in the queue for follow-ups.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Ashish Jain from Macquarie. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good evening. Sir, my first question is on renewables. Can you share some thoughts, from a, let's say, three to five-year perspective, how big this business can be in your vision? What are the key products which will be driving that?
I've already said this, that it's too early to give any more detailed answer than what we've already given.
Okay. Sir, secondly, on cables, it's a bit surprising that, like four quarters back or six quarters back, we had capacity issues, now with capacity coming in also, our cable volumes are flattish. How should one think about that in your view, what's driving that?
I think I've given this in a lot of answers that, while our capacity utilization has been high, some part of the cable is also affected by the raw material fluctuation, which also means that sometimes the sell-out suddenly becomes slower when the raw materials are fluctuating heavily. Not everything is going to projects because there's a lot of dealer sales also in cables. When the raw materials start going down, the dealers start selling out from their own stocks rather than picking from the company.
There are a lot of factors. I don't think we should look at one quarter.
No, sir. Just an extension of that. Should we think that for cables and ACs in particular, for the same reason, the channel inventory today is lower than normal? Is that the right way to think then? [crosstalk]
Yeah. At least at the end of the quarter, yes.
For both the products. Okay. Great. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Pulkit Patni from GS. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you for taking my question. Sir, first question is, in your opening remarks plus a few other times, you sounded a lot more confident on overall growth. My question is this confidence stemming from the price increases that have happened across categories, or are you also feeling more confident about volume growth going forward?
I'm always confident.
About, sir? Volume growth or price--Is it the pricing growth?
I'm always confident about Havells' growth.
Okay, sir. My second question is, would you be able to highlight what is the capacity utilization at the cables and wires division right now for us?
I can't give it to you on this call.
Okay. I'll take it from the IR team separately.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I will now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.
Thank you very much everybody for attending this call and being very patient on the call. Thank you once again. Wish you a very good weekend.
On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining, and now you may disconnect your lines. Thank you