Q1 21/22

Jul 19, 2021

Quarterly report

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q1 FY 'twenty two Earnings Conference Call of SBL Technologies Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in a listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sanjay Mandirata, Head, Investor Relations. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Margaret. Good morning and good evening, everyone. A very warm welcome to HCL Tech's Q1 fiscal 'twenty two earnings call. Trust you all are safe and in good health. We have with us today Mr. Vijay Kumar, President and CEO, HCL Technologies Mr. Pratik Agarwal, Chief Financial Officer Mr. Afarral, Chief Human Resource Officer Mr. Anil Birje, Senior Corporate Vice President, Digital and Analytics Mr. Vijay Guntur, Corporate Vice President, ARS Mr. Darren Oberth, Senior Corporate Vice President, Product and Platforms Mr. Rahul Singh, President, Financial Services, along with the other members of HCL leadership team to discuss the performance of the company during the quarter In the course of this call, certain statements that we made are forward looking, which involve a number of risks, All forward looking statements made herein are based on information presently available to the management and the company does not undertake to update any forward looking statements that may be made in the course of this call. In this regard, please do review the Safe Harbor statements in the formal Sridhar:] Yes. Thank you, Thank you, Sanjay. Good morning, good afternoon and good evening, everyone. I hope all of you are safe and are keeping well. The past few months have been tough, especially for our India based family as the second wave of pandemic Raged across the country. During this time, the well-being of our employees and their families got our undivided attention and we left no stone unturned to support their health and overall welfare. We offer a wide range of services to our employees, including hospitalization support, isolation facilities, ambulance services, Doctor consultation, medicines delivery, life coaches, mental health support, fire up with food delivery services for those self And family and many others. Very sadly, we lost some of our colleagues to the pandemic. To support the dependence of our Seized employees, we put in place a special family assistance program. As we speak, we remain very focused on all the preventive measures And have launched a massive vaccination drive for our employees across the country. Today, close to 70% of our eligible employee base are already vaccinated and we expect to cover 100% of eligible team members in this quarter. Coming to the financial performance, Q1 revenue came at $2,720,000,000 which is 0.7 percent sequential growth 11.7 percent Y o Y growth. All the numbers are in constant currency unless called out otherwise. Geographically, Americas and Rest of the World posted a good revenue growth of 13.5% and 20% year on year respectively. Europe had a bit of blip sequentially, but remind Y o Y positive at 5.1%. We don't read too much into the sequential blip in Europe As the booking and pipeline and the geography remains very healthy as the continent comes out of the pandemic impact. To leverage these opportunities, We continue to strengthen our leadership in Germany and France that remains part of our global 5 focused countries identified for accelerated growth. We also announced country head appointments for Spain and Portugal and are scaling up our presence in these geographies as we are seeing strong traction for our digital transformation propositions in this country. We are investing in deepening our sales and solution capabilities on-site, both in terms of employees and delivery centers, centers of excellence. More so in Europe, as we called out in the last quarter, as a medium term investment strategy. This when combined with the strong pipeline and bookings we are seeing in the region gives us confidence that we will have handsome growth in the upcoming quarters. In terms of segments, Engineering and R and D Services posted a stellar 4.3% sequential growth and a 10.7% year on year growth, respectively. What we see as a big positive is the revenue momentum In Engineering and R and D Services, both in Europe and Americas, led by digital engineering demand in high-tech as well as life sciences. We are already seeing green shoots of growth from the asset heavy industries as well. With this, the outlook for ER and D services looks strong In the upcoming quarters, IT and Business Services was flattish sequentially, but remained very healthy at a year on year growth of 13%. Our digital business, which comprises of digital consulting, application services and data analytics, led the growth in this segment, which we believe is one of the highest, if not the highest among the peer group on a year on year revenue growth metric. We continue to see significant participation by HCL in existing clients' digital transformation spend, Thanks to our strong Mode2 digital propositions. This is reflected as our $50,000,000 clients Growing from 35 to 37 and even a very smart growth from a LTM last 12 months compared to the previous LTE in 12 months and 20,000,000 clients growing from 96 to 104 this quarter And many of these clients are G500 clients and some of these deals are normally not included in our large deal count communications. This is high quality growth based on great client satisfaction and strong relevance of our propositions and are executed through predefined rate cards and are not new deals. Even such rate cards when Signed first time are not mentioned in our communication, but they make significant contribution to our growth. Our P and P segment had a 1% decline this quarter, while it grew 6% year on year. I would like to call out that our renewal rates The PNP segment remains very healthy with net value cash at about 100%. We would also like you to notice that some of our ERS product offerings are grouped under this segment starting this quarter. We have carved out a unit, it is called Industry Software Group, focused on building next generation products in 5 gs Telecom Manufacturing and Enterprise AI. We've also reclassified earlier quarters as well to have a fair Quarterly and year on year comparisons. We have a track record of delivering business value and this portfolio is leveraged by leading global manufacturers that was automotive and aerospace industry, high-tech and telecom service providers. Also to keep the growth objective in mind, we exited the IP partnership with CFT, which was a stagnant revenue stream and we concluded that exit end of June this year. Moving on to the modewise growth, our modewise2businesssawdoubledigityoygrowthof29% and a healthy quarter on quarter growth of 2.3% led by Cloud and Digital Transformation Services. The both 2 quarter on quarter growth would have been even higher, except for 1, professional services security engagement, which for business reasons, we Agreed with our client to transition back to them. Mode 1 and Mode 2 Mode 1 and Mode 3 have posted a Strong year on year performance of 8.1% and 3.6% respectively. In terms of industry segments, Our Life Sciences and Healthcare vertical continued its aggressive growth trajectory with a 5.4% sequential growth and a 22% year on year growth. We see a lot of opportunities in this vertical across all our business propositions, including digital transformation, workplace and digital engineering services. Financial Services and Technology and Services verticals posted the next best performance with 2.9% and 1.6% sequential growth. Telecom and Media grew 17% year on year, reflecting strong medium term recovery in this segment. On the margins, we continue to execute well, keeping our operating margins within the guided range at 19.6%. Later, Prateek will provide you a detailed walk of the margins. Our booking performance was a real highlight of this quarter. It remained in high gear in this quarter With a new booking of $1,660,000,000 which is a robust 37.4% year on year increase. This was enabled by 12 large wins across segments, geographies and verticals. Some recent large deals we announced in the Cloud and digital space are those with the Mosaic Company, the Fiscus Group, McLaren Health, Hitachi ABB Power Grid and UD Trucks. I also want to call out a large deal we signed with a U. S.-based energy company to operate and transform its downstream order to cash Services end to end and midstream operations by leveraging HCL's commerce and digital experience platform from our software portfolio. This deal is a great proof point of how our services and product businesses Work together to win significant client value and also win large deals. We are confident there are more to come of this kind. With respect to this particular deal, HCL will bring process efficiencies, industry best practices and innovation to deliver additional value to the clients' operations. In addition, HCL will provide analytics and assurance services around access management to the client's application and IT assets. With regard to our P and P business, we continue to see Growth both Q o Q and Y o Y in the new license booking. We continue to see Our pipeline growing to new levels across the breadth of our services business. The pipeline continues to have a positive trajectory in our PNP business as well. To support this growth, we continue to invest in a world class sales and support organization, both internally and by hiring top from the top software companies globally. Both in our bookings and in our pipeline of our ITBS business, we continue to see convergence of infrastructure and application businesses as integrated deals. In the last 5 quarters, we've closed at least 15 integrated deals And the momentum is just picking up. And this is multi year deals. We continue to see acceleration In cloud business reflected in the multi year deals covering themes like migration and implementation of cloud smart strategy, management of large hybrid cloud landscapes, cloud consulting, etcetera. Industry based approach of HCL CloudSmart Will help accelerate customers' cloud journey and benefit realization through both rapid application and infrastructure modernization, Increased data security and governance. We have migrated 100,000 instances to cloud through our IPs, blueprints and certified resources in the last 12 months. We also launched a data driven experience framework that will drive next generation customer experiences. Designed by a cross functional team of marketeers, technologists and data scientists, the framework enables enterprises to create real time personalized experiences at scale and add the agility and speed required for implementing changes due to the evolving trends. The framework sits on top of HCL's Advantage Experience Platform, an omnichannel ecosystem that provides a conversational and data driven capability for marketeers. In our P and P business, we are about to launch HCL Now, which unlocks the full potential of HCL's products and service capabilities on a cloud platform of clients' choice. It gives our clients the flexibility to control their data, mix and match among different tools and to build their own solution architecture. The cloud native as a service offers enterprise grade availability, unlimited scalability and flexibility built from the ground up as cloud native managed on public cloud of clients' choice. It gives access to experts on demand empowered and enabled by our cloud and VCSEL product experts that reduces the risk and cost while transitioning to a cloud native architecture. Clients are starting to see the scale benefits of digital transformation, be it delivering user friendly offerings more efficiently and cost effectively to customers or breaking down silos and enabling employees to work together using collaborative tools. Such benefits make digital technology in partnership with human ingenuity and resilience in what we call as the new essential. The propositions designed by HCL for this transformation offer global enterprises the most elegant path to long term sustainability. As we expand our global market participation, We recently onboarded local country leadership for South Korea, Vietnam and Taiwan to accelerate growth in emerging pockets of Asia and in Mexico, Brazil, Spain and Portugal. These countries, what we call new frontier countries, would grow our business in the medium term with its strong economic growth and digital adoption in these countries. This combined with the markets we called out as focused countries, Australia, Canada, France, Germany and Japan, where we deepened our participation a few quarters back. This should diversify our revenue profile. We continue to strengthen our capabilities in our key markets It's where we lead like U. S, U. K. And Nordics to sustain the advantages we have. As we look at our delivery talent, I'm happy to share that HCL was recognized by the Great Place TO Work Institute as one of India's best employers in the nation builders category as well as one of the best workplaces in the mega employers category for 2021. Such awards and others like being in the Forbes top 30 globally last year makes HCL a top employer of Choice for Tech Talent. In terms of talent ramp up, we've added more than 7,500 employees during this quarter, While demand for technology talent continues to remain very high, we hired 3,500 freshers during the same period. Our attrition was 11.8% on LTM basis, while it is inching up a bit, but Thankfully at a lesser speed than the overall industry. We continue to act proactively to control this aggressively, Be it through special allowances and retention bonuses for super niche and niche skills and increase our reliance on pressures, not just in India, but globally. Our onshore pressure hiring should also help us to reduce our dependence on Visa talent even further and on-site subcontractors to the next optimal level. We will be implementing annual increment cycle as planned with a special focus on 0 to 5 year talent. Looking ahead, I remain very positive of the market and the opportunities arising rapidly in the cloud and digital space, which we are really in a great vantage position to leverage. We remain optimistic about our growth trajectory because I believe we are uniquely differentiated through a combination of solution and services mix, Strong client relationship, employee commitment and a market aligned investment focus. We remain very confident of good Q o Q growth for the rest of the year enabled by the 37% year on year booking preceded by of $3,000,000,000 in the previous quarter and also 7,500 plus net hiring during this quarter. Before I close, I also want to bring to your attention our number one ranking by Leading Investment and Financial Services Group, Edelweiss, in the ESG scorecard and ratings. This is an emphatic validation of the hard work team HCL has invested on this very important agenda over the years. And we are taking this opportunity to reiterate our commitment towards building a truly sustainable enterprise, which makes a positive impact on both people and the planet. On that note, I will hand over the floor to Pratik to provide more details on our financials. Over to you, Pratik. Thank you, CVK. But before I get to the financials, I want to share with the people on the call a Pretty momentous occasion. So good morning, good afternoon, good evening To all the people on the call and I hope you are staying safe and keeping well. The momentous announcement today has been that Shiv Nadar has handed over The baton of the Managing Director to CVK, as we fondly call C. Vijay Kumar's CVK. Shev himself has been elevated to the position of Chairman, Emeritus And Strategic Advisor to the Board, Roshni, of course, continues to be our Chairperson and CVT has been today appointed as the CEO and Managing Director of HCL Technologies. Congratulations, CBK, and wish you all the very best I will now get to the some more details of the P and L. As we've already covered, just reiterating a few numbers, revenues stood at 2720,000,000, 2,720,000,000, up 0.9% on the quarter and 15.5% on the year In U. S. Dollar terms, the growth in constant currency was at 0.7% Q on Q And 11.7% year on year. Q1 EBITDA came in at 24.5% In U. S. GAAP terms, whereas in the U. S. It is at 25.2%. The reason I call that out separately is because the rest of our peers published their results in IFRS And there is a GAAP difference between U. S. GAAP and Ind AS, so and IFRS. And therefore, 25.2% is the right comparable versus most of our peers. Q1 EBIT came in at 19.6%. It was down 77 basis points on a sequential basis and 93 basis points on a year on year basis. Net income for the quarter was at 16% of revenue, up 8.83 basis points quarter on quarter. And in rupee terms, it was higher by about 8.5% on a quarter to quarter basis. Mind you, the quarterly comparison is after excluding the milestone bonus, which was paid in the previous quarter, March quarter, of about close to $100,000,000 and net of tax, it was around 79 $1,000,000 HCL continues to have a very robust pipeline, highest ever, And we continued the strong booking momentum even in this quarter. This quarter's booking came in at 1.66 $1,000,000,000 of total contract value TCV, which I would like to remind everybody is Only the new deal wins during the quarter, it does not include any renewals at all. So the RMB1.66 billion was a 37.5% increase on a year on year basis. This is further backed up by this very strong net hiring that we have been doing in the last 3 quarters actually. Just to give you the numbers of the last quarter and this one, we hired a net Headcount of 9,295, let's say 9,300 is a round figure and this quarter is 7,522, which brings the total across the two quarters to about 16,800 In employee terms, over and above the 16,800 Were 3rd party contractors whose number also went up by about 3,000 over the 2 quarters And therefore, in the last two quarters, if I include the 3rd party contractors as well as the employees, we have increased our Net workforce by about 20,000 within the short space of 2 quarters. During the quarter, as CVJ covered briefly, we had to HCL had to fight the challenges that were posed By the 2nd wave of COVID, especially in NCR, where we have a large population as most of you know, And the headwinds that that threw at us was both in terms of revenue as well as cost From employees being on, pandemic leads, which we Give to our employees as and when they required either for themselves or for their family members so that they could take We focused largely on 2 broad areas. So the first one was the COVID care support and the second one was what we call the family assistance program. So as part of the first one, the impacted employees and their families, they have been Supported with medical infrastructure of all kinds, for example, in terms of reserving some hospital Space isolation beds, ICU beds, procuring oxygen concentrators and Moving them to where they were most required, insurance top ups on exhaustion of insurance limits And so on and so forth. The list is pretty endless. And as far as family assistance program was concerned to support The dependence of the colleagues that we unfortunately lost, which included compassionate allowance, Jobs for potential jobs for their spouse, if they were willing or if they were The required training, we are providing that as well and continuing education for the children of the employees. So all in all, it was almost a war effort fighting the COVID menace. HCL also launched vaccination drives for the employees and their dependent families And we have been able to reach a decent percentage of the eligible population and Continue to make strides to reach 100% this quarter. So getting to the numbers in some more detail, The revenue was impacted by about $7,000,000 which in growth terms is Something like 25, 26 basis points due to the impact from COVID related leads. The impact was of course higher to start with, but we could battle down some of that by redeploying resources. And to give you a quick walk for the EBIT, the EBIT contracted by about 77 basis points. And there was a gain of from ForEx exchange changes of about 19 basis points, say 20 basis points. And last quarter, we had Higher amortization, which was about 60 basis points benefit for this quarter because it was a hit last quarter. The drop was primarily driven by pandemic. It was a drop of close to 90 basis points, which had 3 components. So the first one was the impact on revenue, which itself hit the EBIT by about 20 basis points. The second one was the leave cost because these leaves are over and above the entitlement of the people. This was a special pandemic So that costed us another 24, 25 basis points. And the 3rd component was on the COVID support costs, which was another 45 basis points. So all these three factors put together constitute the pandemic impact of about 90 basis points. Over and above that, we had other hiring and retention costs, given the demand And the supply gaps that we have, that was about 35 basis points. And the last factor was really the investment in new markets and higher R and D spend, which was another 30 basis points. So that gives you the movement from 77 of 77 basis points from the last quarter to this one. I will now move on to profit after tax, the net income. The net income was I mean, apart from all the other factors, there was the effective tax rate for the 3 months, which was at 21.7%. The normalized number for this quarter is About 23.5 percent really, but we had the benefit of about $10,000,000 due to the conclusion of an uncertain tax Position which came in favor of us during this quarter. So that $10,000,000 added to the profit after tax The other notable happening during the quarter was Unwinding of the IP partnership with Celerity Fintech for banking products As CBK already talked about it, their revenue was running stagnant and We prefer to get out of it rather than invest more. You may remember there was a $25,000,000 2nd payment for the intellectual property, which was due to be paid coming up in this year. And instead of paying that RMB25 1,000,000, we negotiated an exit instead. This has given us decent IRR on that investment over the years and The work that we have been doing on those products will be transitioned back to them over the next two quarters. And this part of the revenue stream will come down to 0 by the end of the I mentioned here the 4th quarter will be pretty much 0. We have successfully recovered our investments, So as I already mentioned, including the 25,000,000 otherwise payable and this has been appropriately reflected in the balance sheet. This quarter continued to be a good cash generation quarter, in line with the Profit after tax or net income, we generated operating cash flow of $447,000,000 and a free cash flow of RMB403 1,000,000 during the quarter, which is respectively 102% and 93% respectively of net income. Last 12 months operating cash flow Is that 22,301,000,000, 2,230,000,000 and free cash flow close to 2,000,000,000 at 1986,000,000. And those numbers are 129% of net income and Our OCF and FCF yields remain amongst the highest amongst peers at 6.2% and 5.5% respectively. Our balance sheet continues to be strong with gross cash at the end of the quarter at $2,584,000,000 which is up 32% year on year after making the payment Of the milestone bonus of about $100,000,000 last quarter and the special dividend payout during this quarter of RMB588 1,000,000 during the quarter. This is the RMB10 plus RMB6 per share that we declared in the last Board meeting. The last thing on the earnings per share, Last 12 month diluted EPS has come in at INR 49 per share, which is up 13% year on year. And the last 12 months diluted cash EPS is at now INR60, INR60, which is increase of 5.1% year on year. And the Board declared a dividend of INR6 per share at the end of this call. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer We will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Pankaj Kapoor from CLSA. Please go ahead. Yes. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. See, Vicki, my first question is on the revenue momentum that we lost because of the Wave 2. As Pratik quantified, it was just about So the growth itself was slightly weaker. So would you how what would you attribute this to? You also mentioned a professional services contract that was given back to the client. If you could quantify the impact of that? And going forward, how do you see the quarter shaping up? Do you see some bump up happening in the second quarter because Of the loss of momentum picking up in the 2Q and a more normalized second half, your thoughts on that, please? So Pankaj, in Q1, generally, it's a seasonally weak quarter for HCL. So We were we probably expected maybe another 60 basis points, 70 basis points more than what we Delivered. I think we delivered 0.7, maybe we our initial plan was to be between 1.3, 1.4. And that was because of the large deals that we signed in Europe. We're pretty much signed towards the last The end of the quarter and then some of the transitions were going to take a longer time and slow revenue realization was expected. Great. And of course, being the last quarter of last year, there was obviously some completion of projects and things like that, So which caused a little bit of bump up and there was a one timer impact. So those were the two aspects. And then of course, there is a 60, 70 basis points reduction due to 1, of course, COVID impact was The pandemic leave impact is what Pratik quantified, but there is also some slippage in some milestones and things like that, which cost a little bit. And then we talked about the professional services, which is one of the partnerships that we signed. There is some part of it, which we jointly agreed it is better it is done in house for the client and we transition. So that's really the Q1. Now obviously, this will have a positive impact in Q2. So I expect A strong quarter in Q2 and fairly normalized growth in the second half. And we will be continuing to be confident of the double digit growth that we talked about in the beginning of the year. And I think the right way to look at it is the headcount ramp up. Obviously, this is all driven by demand. And sometimes the revenue realization takes a little longer. It depends on the ratio of your pressures versus laterals that you ramped up. So those kind of factors drive some kind of timing of revenue realization. Understood. And just going back to the previous quarter also, you mentioned the pipeline continues to be at a record high, and this Same also, we spoke of a record high pipeline. So how will you look at the actual conversion of this pipeline? Our Decision will be taking longer, which was the reason why maybe there was some lower order booking, actual order booking compared to the previous quarter? Or is the pipeline getting more and more specific by these smaller sized deals and which is the reason why there was a maybe a kind of a moderation in the dealings? Thank you. Yes. So Q4 is always the peak. And if you look at even the previous year, Q4 was one of the best ever quarters. So that way comparison of Q4 to Q1 from a booking perspective would not be right. The right comparison will be Q1 of FY 2020 and Q1 of FY 2021 and Q1 of FY 2022. You may say that Q1 of FY 2021 was a pandemic driven Q1, but Even if you compare to the previous year, it's about 37% higher. So I think booking momentum It's very, very good in this quarter. And the pipeline is high and we will again book very strong The deal wins in this quarter, I'm pretty confident of it. Now all of this at some point will have to translate to revenue. So I'm pretty confident of good growth in the rest of the quarters. But the highest pipeline that we have, I think that augurs very well for FY23. Thank you and wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gaurav Matharia from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Hi. My first question is for CVK. It will be helpful to get some color on how the renewal deals are shaping up. And also within the strong new deal wins that you announced, How much was due to very strong pipeline and how much is due to a better win rate for HCL, let's say, versus last year? Gaurav, I do not have specific numbers on the win rates. But Generally looking at it, I feel our win rates have gone up significantly in the last two quarters. I would want to make that as a qualitative commentary. The qualified pipeline is of very high quality and We do believe we will have very strong win rates. Now I don't know what was your first question, I missed it. Yes. On the trends in the renewal deals, because most of the deals which you announced of large deals is the new deal wins, right? Yes, yes. The new deal wins is what we announced. Renewals, it's renewals are as usual. I don't see any major concern. Usually, we renew 95% of our revenue. 95% to 97% of our revenue gets renewed. So that trend is definitely Pretty intact, very positive renewal trends. Yes. 2nd question is on the sales and marketing spending. It has picked up in the quarter you quantified that as well, but is that largely done and reflected in the current quarter numbers? Or do you think this buildup will further happen over The coming quarters, once and then you'll reach kind of steady state with respect to all the investment dollars which you talked about last quarter? I think it's there is some more way to go till it reaches a steady state run rate. Because new countries, we onboarded leadership. I'm sure there's going to be more costs. Products and platform, again, I think we are pretty much Done with the capacity that we've planned. And some of the new geographies and engineering services, Some solution and COE build up on the digital engineering side, they are still work in progress. Next two quarters, I think it should kind of stabilize. Okay. Last question on what would be the impact from the transition of work back to the And is it fully reflected in current quarter or do you expect some more impact to come through in the next 2 to 3 quarters? Thank you. I think it's largely reflected there could be a marginal impact in the next quarter. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sandeep Kumar from EDELWEISS. Please go ahead. Hi, good evening and thanks for giving me opportunity to ask a question and wish everyone good help. Vivek, I have only one question, Which is interconnected, so it may look like multiple questions, but it is actually only one question. I wanted to know I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Kumar. Your voice is breaking up, sir. I clear now? Yes. At the moment, it is. I'm sorry, it is not clear. So I would just request you to please check your phone line and come back in the queue. In the meanwhile, we'll move to the next question. The next question is from the line of Sudhir Goontopalli from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Yes. Good evening, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my questions. CUK, congrats on your elevation and all the best. My first question, This is the 2nd consecutive quarter of poor growth. And anyway, we dissect and look at the data, QoQ or Y o Y or segment, etcetera, Our numbers look very weak versus our own historical average performance in the June quarter. Despite the massive benefit we would have gotten from a low base in June 2021, IT and Business Services would have grown roughly 11% year on year ex DWS. And surprisingly, this is lower than many companies outside the IT sector where, Let's say physical processes like footfalls or paperworks processes in case of banks, etcetera, would have gotten majorly disrupted due to the 2nd wave lockdowns. So when you think about the inflationary environment we live in and growth becoming a commodity everywhere in the world, so just, Silke, your thoughts on what has not Gone right or what is not going right for HCL? Yes. Sudhir, honestly, I Strongly believe everything is going right and that the growth itself is a factor of the nature of deals that you win. I think the right way to look at our numbers is really based on the headcount ramp up. All of that will translate to revenues. Some of that is taking time. Other than that, whether it is The strength of our proposition, scale up of our large clients, largely driven around digital business And our engineering business, all of that is very, very strong. I believe couple of quarters compared to the industry Our performance is muted, but it's very strongly supported by the bookings, and I think We will recover very smartly as we go into the next few quarters. Perfect. And one question, if I may. 2nd, we have had a pan Indian impact with even cities like Bangalore, Bombay, etcetera, seeing massive contagion at different time lines. And our competitors who have sizable delivery operations in these It is seem to have not called out a double whammy impact both on revenue and margins like the way we are calling out. Of course, one company flagged off second wave issue, but that's more driven by passport, Where physical presence of people is negative. So why are we calling out a higher impact? And Second thing is COVID support costs also. Most of the other companies would have also incurred COVID support costs in terms of supporting their employees, so on and so forth. Shabir, it's very difficult for me to comment on this aspect in comparison to others. So maybe we spent more on taking care of our employees. That's quite possible. And The second aspect is, I think, I don't know how everyone is treating the pandemic leaves. We gave pandemic leaves Not just for our employees, but also in the situations where the family members are unwelled. And this leave was over and above the regular leaves. So maybe different companies approached it differently. I don't want to comment on others. But we have shared with you very transparently on What the impact on us was? So thanks. That's it from my side and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mukul Gah from Ooyala Luttwelve Financial Services. Please go ahead. Yes, thanks. Sirika, I just wanted to focus on the P and P business. The quarter the growth this quarter on a y o y basis Slow down to 6% versus almost I think mid teens kind of a growth a few quarters ago. If you You can help us, a, was there any impact of the product discontinuation on this? And b, on an overall basis, So how is the growth happening in the P and P side? You recently had a launch of Domino V12 also. And if you can also mention whether you had any impact from The recent tough migration at IBM on the node side given that they are the largest user of the email in the globe. Yes. Mukul, maybe I will ask Darren to respond on The year on year growth, but before that just to kind of set the context, our outlook was to grow low single digit This year in our P and P business on a year on year basis. So that should be the reference point. But Darren can provide more color on product discontinuation and the new launches and the impact of various initiatives. Darren, over to you. Absolutely. Thank you. So the current quarter was actually a strong quarter for us in terms of new license bookings. As we've highlighted over the last couple of earnings calls, that's the key area of priority as we continue to ramp up our direct go to market. We completed 2 years from the date of the closure of the large divestiture with IBM. Our top priority in the first Several quarters was in customer transition, stabilizing renewals. We have incrementally been focusing Yes, more new license, more growth, and again, we've seen that reflected in the investment we've made from a go to market point of view. In terms of the overall growth rate, as CDK said, we are in line with the expectations that we've set to the market That this would be sort of in the low to mid single digit growth business. Again, over time and over a number of quarters, We do see significant potential to grow above that and to get to company norms in terms of growth, but that is the growth rate that we would expect We did launch, as he mentioned, Domino V12 along with a number of other pretty significant releases In AMJ, this continues just a pattern for us over the last several quarters of investment, modernization, innovation, new capabilities in our portfolio. There's a lot of new stuff coming this quarter as well. Again, things that we believe will be impactful in continuing to improve our growth rate. Finally, as you mentioned, IBM, it's not our place to comment on any of our customers. And so there's really nothing That we could say about that, other than perhaps just to allay any concern that there's some sort of financial impact that would be dimming our growth. That's certainly Not the case. Sure. I had one question for the I also want to add I also want to add that We also discontinued our SaaS offering. I mean, as I mentioned, we had announced it a year back And we also mentioned it in the last quarterly call. So that also has sudden impact. And there was a conscious call to discontinue the SaaS offering and those clients are migrating to on prem for these solutions. Sure. Thanks. I had one question for Pratik. Pratik, this was on cash usage. You currently have about $2,000,000,000 in net Cash, if you take the Q1 run rate, you probably will add another 1.6 in this free cash flow this year. How is the management actually looking at the uses of this cash? I know you indicated a INR6 run rate last quarter, but This will imply that we will pay out between $800,000,000 to $1,000,000,000 to shareholders in FY 2022. What factors are making it difficult for the Board to increase payout given that you have doubled your net cash in last 2 years? Yes, Mukul, that we have doubled our net cash is a factor of So what it is today as well as what it was before, right, in a sense that Our net cash had gone down pretty much after the closing of the acquisition. And then we had fifty-fifty kind of breakup of the acquisition of 1,800,000,000 Leaving aside the contingent payments, which was RMB 812,000,000 at the end of June 2019 and another $812,000,000 at the end of June 2020. So that is More I mean, dollars 2,000,000,000 is frankly not much. We do need to build the cash on the balance sheet. By comparison with peers, we are by far much lower compared to most of our peers. So that's the statement on the cash balances. But as far as dividends are concerned, I think we already took a Largest step in the previous Board meeting, where we said, apart from the INR6, which we declared for that quarter and apart from the INR10, which we declared As a special interim dividend to commemorate the $10,000,000,000 milestone of in revenue terms, We also confirm that going forward, we will maintain INR6 per share per quarter, which is what we have maintained. To my mind, it is too soon in the day to keep changing on a quarter to quarter basis. I would assume the Board would Probably look at something maybe in the last quarter or something like that is all I can say. It is obviously a Board decision. We'll take your feedback and I'll leave it at that. Fair enough. Thanks for answering my question. I'll get back into the queue. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ankur Rudra from JPMorgan. Please go ahead. Thank you. Thanks for taking my question. Just one sort of overarching question on guidance. Last two quarters, you've had you highlighted How should we think about this and when should we think about this to come to stronger revenue growth? Are there any Still remaining drives any part of the business either legacy IT side, engineering on IT or anything else in the horizon which keeps you from articulating your growth Thanks, Morgan. And as an addition to that question only, it's not a separate question. We asked it at 10% is about 2% sequential for the next three quarters. How should we think about your confidence of achieving or leading that? Thank you. Yes. Ankur, except for the Products and Platform segment, where we specifically called out the growth profile and the mix of growth products and declining products. We believe all other aspects of our portfolio is in very good shape in terms of the growth profile. Obviously, when we I mean, in FY 2019, we still had a very large deal that had revenues in 20, 21, there is always a year on year decline when you do these mega deals. So except for situations like this And where we have taken conscious calls to exit a business like the professional services, I do not see any headwinds. In fact, all the aspects are pointing to a lot of traction in existing accounts. And those are not even into our booking because they are Extensions of rate cards where we are scaling up. Obviously, in the current demand environment, it is Not always possible to get a fully ready billable person, so either it is freshers or we hire lateral talent With maybe one level low and then train them. So that is the approach. I think we are approaching this In a truly organic manner to create high quality growth. And I mean the re badging and all those transitions, It definitely has an impact in the subsequent years. Not that we are averse to it, but I think we are happy here where we are. And I don't recollect the second question. So the second question was, how do you think about Ashish for your guidance of double digit, if you assume that is the bottom. Ashish for that, there is about 2% CQGR. How do you think about that in terms of achieving confidence about achieving that or repeating that? Ankur, I think the CQGR to get to double digit is about 2.8% from where we are on a constant currency basis. And we're pretty confident and we will make up for the Shortfall of Q1 and Q2, I feel pretty confident of that. And then our growth, some of these transitions will come into steady state and all of that will deliver a pretty good growth in the second half. So if I could just put in one last, is supply the main risk to that? Thank you. Supply is I think we are pretty confident of our current hiring numbers because we see the momentum, The recruitment, the multiple metrics that we track on recruitment across the globe, we are hiring between 8000 to 10000 people, About 2000 to 3000 or little more than 3000 fleshes. So I think both are lateral capacity and pressure capacity. I do believe we will be able to hire at these levels for the next few quarters. Obviously, market situation It's very high demand and people have multiple offers, the reneg ratios are high. But I think The locations where we are and the work that we have done in the pandemic, how we have really handled Our employees, I think it's created a tremendous amount of positivity. Our own attrition, while it is in step from the last quarter to this quarter, We believe it's probably may not be the best, but maybe 2nd best in the industry. So all those metrics points us to a good ability to hire and fulfill. But the demand, if you could hire 15 We have demand and we can I mean if we can fulfill then your growth will be much higher? But I think the right levels will be 8000 to 10000, so that we can scale up in a very manageable manner. Appreciate that. Thank you, Investment. Thank you, Ankur. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sandeep Shah from Equinix Securities. Please go ahead. Yes. Thanks for the opportunity. So if you can just follow-up to what Ankur has asked. Now with the worst of Q4, 1Q soft growth being behind, what is curtailing us in terms of not giving a Q1Q growth guidance When we have a very strong track record of meeting guidance either on a Y o Y quantitatively or on a Q on Q, which we have started So what is curtaining us not to give a guidance for the next three quarters when we have a solid order book both in FY 'twenty one As well as in the Q1 and your comment indicates that even the 2Q order book would be even greater. Yes. I don't think technically there is a problem. It is more a conceptual thing. I think we believe Giving very precise guidance on a quarterly basis drives a little more short term focus. And We have consciously taken a call that we will do we will focus on the mid- to long term and not get very narrowly focused on the quarter. Like last year, we pretty much gave guidance for every quarter. So I don't think that is in the right interest of the long term of the company. So even precise guidance also in this environment, while there is very buoyant demand environment, But I mean like when we spoke during the quarter in April, we did not realize the level of pandemic that we witnessed. So I think it's better to be a little bit cautious and kind of tell you the booking numbers, which is a true indication of What the future growth is? And that's the only certain thing, right? Booking is done and dusted and that only has to be executed. It will show up in growth In 1 quarter or the next quarter, sure. Yes, yes. That is well understood, Chibi. So I think both booking and items Are actually interdependent rather than being exclusive. But your comments have been understood as a whole. The second question, Pratik, whether this 90 bps which you call out as a COVID related cost, that could be a tailwind in the Q2. That is the way one has to see. And generally, we split our wage hikes over the next 2 or 3 quarters. So in that scenario, our margin may have upward bias on a Q on Q basis in Q2. Is it the right way of Sandeep, yes, you are right. We certainly Hope and pray that we don't run into a 3rd wave. Your comment sort of assumes that, But we continue to be prepared to handle any eventuality. We certainly don't hope that The COVID comes a 3rd wave of COVID comes knocking and such a A devastating one is the second one. So yes, we would have other things to take care of, which is wage and salary increases, which would require Their own debt handling in turn. Okay. Thanks and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sandeep Kumar from Edelweiss. Please go ahead. Kumar, your voice is clear, not clear, sir. So if your line is not clear, we are Happy to maybe you can send us a question, we can happy to respond back. Okay. Can you hear me now? I'm sorry, sir, but it is not very clear. I would request you to send your question offline. Thank you. The next question is from the line of I'm sorry. The next question is from the line of Nitin Panmahonathan from Investec. Please go ahead. Yes. Hi, good evening, everyone. Sir, in the prior question, you basically said that You'd make up for the shortfall of Q1 and Q2 and make it up in the second half. But you're referring to the calendar or do you No, Nitin, maybe there is some gap. I didn't talk anything about Q3. I said we will we are likely to make up for the shortfall in Q1 and Q2 and H2 should be a normalized growth numbers. Okay. You are referring to the calendar, is it? This is the financial year for us because we just finished Q1. So the expectation is that the Q2, which is the current ongoing quarter, will also be relatively weak. Is that the assumption? That's the clarification, Ashish. No, no, no, no. We are we in fact, it's the reverse. We what we said is we will make up The shortfall in this quarter, which is Q2. Okay. We'll make up in Q2. Perfect. So the second question was On the exiting severity, how much of that would be an impact? And is that already baked into the low single digit kind of number on the Products and Platforms business? So we don't want to call out client specific numbers, But I mean the fact that it doesn't change anything in our guidance and outlook for this year, You should just assume that we are soaking that in. So, here is the last thing. I think You said look at the last quarter, you mentioned that the average tenure was 3 to 5 years and you said the quality of the bookings are really good. How is it this quarter? And the second one, you speak about much higher quality of bookings. What is it that is better this time versus whatever you would have won maybe way back? Just your thoughts on both. 1 is the average tenures for the current booking? And second is, what is driving the better quality what are the quality aspects about? So, Pratik, you were responding to the previous question. Maybe if you could just complete it and then I'll answer to Yes. No, I was just trying to add that there could be some quarter on quarter volatility, but our guidance on a full year basis, Which CBK already mentioned is not changing because of this. Okay. Sorry, just remind me of your question. Yes. My question was about, 1, what is the average tenure of the bookings this quarter? You had mentioned that the quality of bookings in the last quarter is much better. So when you say improved quality of bookings, Now what are you referring to in terms of underlying characteristics? Yes. I think, see, first is I'll comment on the tenure. I I think the tenure was is also somewhat similar, but maybe more skewed towards a 5 year kind of average now than A 3 to 5 year in the last quarter. In terms of quality of booking, what I was referring to is, if you do a large The rebadging deal and it does a huge bump up in revenue and then it brings you down in the next quarter. I mean, we will definitely do the deals, but it's not I mean, I would say it's a slightly lower quality or if you have You want to take over like a lot of data centers and assets. I think they are just one time revenue or like The deal in Germany where we had to rehire 2,000 people, which we did not really do it because It was a distraction in a time when there is good organic demand and focus on building the business By just scaling people and talent, that's much more sustainable in the long run. That's what I meant. Sure, Vivek. Thank you and all the very best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rishit from Nomura. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for taking my question. I just got one question on the TV front, right? You've talked about getting aggressive into some of these newer markets. Have you started to see some of the contribution in the TCV? If not, when do we expect some of those investments to come through? And just a related question on PCB, right? I think we have seen an improvement And you talked about general regression in the market. So are these deals margin Thank you. Yes, I think our win rates are better. That's definitely one. And these geographies, I think I want to segregate this into 2 categories. 1 is what we call as focused geographies, which is 5 countries, Germany, France, Australia, Canada and Japan. I think there is already a good momentum and our incremental investments will continue to deliver revenue and they will more or less Get into the run rate very soon. I think the 7 countries where we what we call as new frontier countries, which is 3 in Asia, South Korea, Taiwan and Vietnam, Spain and Portugal, Brazil and Mexico. I think it's a long haul because we have pretty much zero presence and we are really building things from scratch. So I don't expect a meaningful contribution from that for the next 12 months or 18 months. But it's a good investment to make because these are the most some of these geographies are So we're business and we are not present. And also it will help us to serve our global clients in these geographies. If I take my top 100 client partner accounts, many of them have presence in some shape and form. So that uptick may come a little quicker, but truly Customers demiciled in these countries, it will take time. But Mexico is one area where we may start seeing results so much faster Because even though we didn't have the leadership there, we put in a lot of effort otherwise. So some of that is going to show results A little quickly. And on these large deals, will there be a meaningful margin or See, I think that is really a it's a question of the timeline. Maybe the margins will be dilutive for the 1st year, in some cases, maybe even the 2nd year. But we don't sign up to deals where We don't have a clear visibility of delivering company level margins at least in year 3. Sure. And just one last question on the overall revenue, right, when you talk about the double digit revenue growth, right, on an organic basis, when you look at it Compared to peers that are 3. It's a little softer and this is despite an easy base in the year and D business, right? And I know we've got a weaker But apart from that, any leakage that we should sort of know of, which sort of keeps us From delivering, let's say, similar to the oils or maybe even higher? I mean, there is obviously some leakage which happens because not 100% of the deals get renewed. Sometimes there is an M and A, sometimes they want to have much better pricing and which we are not able to. So usually 2% to 3% is lost in that those dimensions. Outside that, there is really no leakage. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Girish Pai from Nirmal Bank. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. CVK, in the earlier part of this conversation, you mentioned that The strong hiring and the strong order booking means that it augurs well for FY 2023. So are you kind of Hinting that you'll actually see an acceleration in FY 'twenty three compared to FY 'twenty two? Girish, maybe it's a little early to comment on it, but my sense is you are right. It's a very qualitative commentary I'm giving you, but It's not a guidance. It's not a I mean, it's just a sense based on what we are seeing. I would see an acceleration in 2023. Okay. CPK, last quarter, you mentioned that you kind of walked away or you were picky with your choice of orders. Was it specifically to with reference to the rebadging or was it because margins are lower For whatever other reasons or you had some issues in terms of talent not being available to execute those orders and how are things panning out as we speak now? Are you still being picky with the orders as we speak. No, I think Girish, we never had a situation where we walked away from a deal because we didn't have talent. So maybe that's some wrong communication. So but we have walked away from deals if it meant taking over a lot of data centers, Taking over a lot of assets or rebadging with no real long term value, it gives you a huge revenue uptick in 1 or 2 quarters, maybe it stays for a year, but customer is going to merge all the systems into another system and then you have to deal with the people. Those kind of things, what we as a management team, what we thought is in this environment, it's better to focus on Building it very, very organically rather than spending a lot of management time on those type of deals. And it's case to case when We find deals which we believe will not create long term value, but obviously it's a very competitive market, somebody or other is interested. For them, there may be some strategic reasons. But if it didn't make sense for us, we would drop it. Just one last question, if I may squeeze this through. The P and P margins, last year, debt margins were closer to like 28%, if I recall. They were down in 1Q to some 23%. Is this a seasonal issue? Or you think you can go back to that 28% number for the full year? Yes, yes. Girish, we explained it in the last quarterly call, but what's happening is traditionally it is delivered close to 28% to 30% kind of And we believe our sales team needed a little more scale up And we consciously decided to invest in it and we took a hit in the margins. And that was also the reason why we slightly Expanded our margin band, which used to be 20% to 21% to 20 19% to 20 21%, because we are investing in little more scale up of the product business From a sales perspective and then we are expanding in some geographies and then we are investing in some digital engineering capabilities. So these were the reasons. I would think over a period of time that should once the sales investments are over, which I do believe it's more or less complete. As the sales picks up, I think it should flow into the margins. So I would expect the margins to inch up, may not be immediately, but maybe in the next year. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, Jaysh. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. C Vijay Kumar for closing comments. Thank you for very, very engaging conversations and very, very good questions. So in summary, I think I very strongly believe we are doing all the right things for the medium to long term. And it may not reflect in exciting quarterly numbers, but the outlook For the upcoming quarters, I feel we will deliver a strong growth momentum. And long term, Again, I continue to remain very positive, and I look forward to these calls in the future, and thank you for joining us today. Thank you. On behalf of HCL Technologies Limited, that concludes the conference call. Thank you for joining us, And you may now disconnect your lines.