Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. A very warm welcome to ICICI Lombard General Insurance Company Limited's Q1 FY25 earnings conference call. From the senior management, we have with us today Mr. Sanjeev Mantri, MD and CEO of the company, Mr. Gopal Balachandran, CFO, Mr. Alok Agarwal, Executive Director, Mr. Girish Nayak, Chief Technology, Health Underwriting and Claims, Mr. Sandeep Goradia, Chief Corporate Solutions Group, Mr. Anand Singhi, Chief Retail and Government Business, and Mr. Gaurav Arora, Chief Underwriting and Claims, Property and Casualty. Please note that any statements, comments that are made in today's call that may look like forward-looking statements are based on information presently available to the management and do not constitute an indication of any future performance as the future involves risks and uncertainties, which could cause results to differ materially from the current views being expressed.
As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sanjeev Mantri, Managing Director and CEO, ICICI Lombard General Insurance Company Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good evening to each one of you. Thank you for joining the earnings conference call of ICICI Lombard General Insurance Company Limited for quarter one, Financial Year 2025. Let me give you a brief overview of the industry trends and developments that we have witnessed in the ensuing months. Post this, our CFO, Mr. Gopal Balachandran, will share the financial performance of the company for the quarter ended June 30th, 2024. During the financial year 2024, the Indian economy surged by an impressive 8.2%, which is better than the expected growth of 7.6%, maintaining its position as the fastest-growing major economy globally. During quarter one 2025, the key frequency indicators, such as toll collections, GST receipts, and E-way bills, continued to remain buoyant.
Manufacturing construction sector showed strong activity, and PMI data also highlighted robust demand and strong export orders. However, global geopolitical tension and uneven distribution of domestic monsoon can be a key risk to the ongoing growth momentum. Now, talking about the auto industry, during the quarter, we have seen decent growth in the wholesale numbers as reported by SIAM, with private car growing at 3%, two-wheeler at 20.4%, and CV at 7.8%. This entails approximately 1 million private cars, 5 million two-wheelers and 0.4 million CVs being sold during the quarter. However, the retail numbers, as reported by FADA, have seen muted growth for private car at 2.5%, two-wheelers at 12.6% and CV at 6% for quarter one 2025.
Despite relatively lower retail sales during the quarter, we expect the onset of the festive season in the coming months to augur well for auto industry. Hence, insurance as a segment continues to be driven by under-penetration in the retail health business, coupled with enhanced awareness. In the last five years, healthcare segment is growing more than 20% CAGR, and we expect this trend to persist for 2025. The commercial line of business grew by 10.3% during the quarter. Fire line of business continued to witness pricing pressure due to impact of discontinuance of IIB rate. However, with better awareness of new age risks and continued government focus on infrastructure development and related capital expenditure, the commercial line business is expected to do well in coming quarters.
Overall, from an insurance industry standpoint, we see a significant convergence with macro and micro factors supporting the growth. Coming to the performance of general insurance industry, it delivered a year-on-year gross direct premium income growth of 13.3% for quarter one, Financial Year 2025. Ex Crop and Mass, GDPI for the industry was at 14.8% for the same period. We have seen quarter one Financial Year 2025 growth being sequentially better than Q4 of last year, and we expect this trajectory to continue in the coming quarters. Overall, the combined ratio of the industry was at 112% for Financial Year 2024, as against 115.8% for Financial Year 2023.
For motor, the combined ratio was at 118.5% for Financial Year 2024, as against 121.1% for Financial Year 2023. While we see some improvement in the overall combined ratio, with no motor TP hike rate and the motor combined ratio for the industry continues to remain under pressure. In our previous call, we discussed a series of regulations prescribed by the authorities. The regulatory environment is becoming more cohesive, and recently, the authority has issued various circulars, including master circulars on health and general insurance, respectively. These developments are expected to augur well for policyholders and the industry over the long term. Now, I'll speak about the business impact for us in quarter one, Financial Year 2025.
The company's GDPI grew at 20.4% during quarter one, Financial Year 2025, which has been higher than the industry growth of 13.3% during the same period. Let me now touch upon our performance in key business segments during the quarter. In the commercial line segment, during quarter one, 2025, we grew at 9.7%. We continue to maintain leadership position in segments such as Engineering, Liability, and Marine Cargo. As mentioned earlier, with the Fire segment has seen pricing pressure, the inherent growth continues to remain intact. Despite the headwinds, we have maintained our market share in the Fire segment. We remain vigilant in terms of risk selection, and we'll continue to monitor developments in coming quarters.
In motor, for quarter one financial year 2025, we registered a growth of 26.3%, resulted in industry growth of 12%. We continue to harness our strong capabilities in this segment across distribution, underwriting, claims, servicing, and actuarial practices. The overall growth in motor segment was aided by strong growth in all business. The new private car business grew at 13.4% as against SIAM volume growth of 3%. Two-wheeler segment registered growth of 21% in quarter one, financial year 2025, in line with the SIAM volume growth. While the new CV segment grew by 20.3%, as against SIAM volume growth of 7.8% during the same period.
During the quarter, we have continued to maintain balanced portfolio with private car, two-wheeler, and CV mix at 51.1%-51.5%, 26%, and 22.5% respectively. We also continue to build efficiency in motor claims. In quarter one, 2025, we were able to service 59.9% of our agency and direct claims through our Preferred Partner Network, up from 56.3% in quarter one, financial year 2024. With the de-notification of tariff wording and the operational guidelines of master circular, we expect newer product opportunities in the motor segment, which will enable the segment to expand further. We are excited to share that we have recently introduced long-term products for private car and two-wheeler segment.
We stay positive on the motor segment and are leveraging our multi-distribution strategy to drive growth across channels, which enables us to sustain market leadership in this segment. The health segment grew at 28.5% in quarter one, financial year 2025, against the industry growth of 16.6%. In group health employer-employee segment, we grew at 31.1% in quarter one, 2025. The change in the underlying industry pricing sentiment resulted in customers moving towards insurers and superior servicing capabilities, helping us to build this portfolio. For first couple of months during the quarter, retail health business grew lower than our expectations. However, with the launch of a new health insurance solution, growth reached 14.4% in the month of June.
Overall, the retail health business grew at 12.6% in quarter one, financial year 2025, compared to the industry growth of 19%. As updated earlier, we continue to remain committed to invest, create differentiation, and provide solutions for the retail health segment. In this endeavor to enhance our value proposition, we recently launched a new revolutionary retail health insurance solution, Elevate, powered by AI. Elevate offers key add-ons such as Infinite Sum Insured, Infinite Care, Power Booster, Jumpstart, et cetera. These add-ons are industry first or industry best offerings. We will further, the solution is backed by AI engine, which offers optimal coverage based on customer persona. We launched this solution across the country through 200+ events, bundle events with our agency distribution.
During the quarter, with lower credit disbursement growth of our key relationship partners, our banca business grew by 7.5%. However, ICICI Group distribution grew by 31.4% for quarter one, financial year 2025, due to strategic focus on branch banking business. When it comes to our relationship across distribution, we continue to deepen our existing relationships by creating new value streams, and at the same time, focus on expanding relationship by staying invested in this channel. As mentioned in our last call, we continue to stay invested in strengthening our digital business. Resultantly, our customer-facing digital business grew by 20.7% in Q1, constituting 4.9% of our overall business. Our one-stop solution for all insurance and wellness needs, the IL TakeCare app, has surpassed 10 million user downloads till date.
We registered a premium of INR 54.5 million for the quarter. As far as servicing our customer is concerned, we continue to leverage solutions such as cloud-based calling for motor claims, which has enhanced the customer experience by allowing direct interaction with the assigned claim manager, bypassing the need for IVR system at call center. This advancement has provided them immediate clarity on claim processes, current status, and form resolution for their inquiries. Our clients are increasingly embracing the self-service capabilities of our chatbot, RIA, which provides assistance across all our digital customer interfaces. The utilization of RIA for checking health claim statuses and downloading policy copies for has doubled in comparison to the previous year. During our previous call, we spoke about One IL One Team vision.
As a part of this initiative, we continue to drive synergy wherein, whether it is for in terms of One IL One Digital, One IL One Agency, or One IL One Call Center, our collective effort focus on the organization's goal has created tailwinds, which are driving superior growth in the recent months. We will continue to consistently leverage the power of One IL One Team through efficient systems and processes driven by our teams. In our previous update, we discussed our core business and technology transformation project, Project Orion. We initiated this transformation journey with our health business and are now progressively extending these efforts to our other lines of businesses. We will remain focused on leveraging our multi-product, multi-distribution strategy. We aim to achieve profitable growth by harnessing data effectively, embracing digital advancement, and introducing new products. Simultaneously, we will continue to foster growth as one IL, one team.
I will now request Gopal to take you through the financial numbers for the recently concluded quarter and year.
Thanks, Sanjeev, and good evening to each one of you. I will now give you a brief overview of the financial performance of the recently concluded quarter. The results have been uploaded on our website, on our stock exchanges, and you will be able to see the same getting reflected on our website as well. You can access it as we walk you through the performance numbers. The gross direct premium income of the company was at INR 76.88 billion for quarter one FY 2025, as against INR 63.87 billion in Q1 FY 2024. This was a growth of 20.4%, which was higher than the industry growth of 13.3%.
Excluding Crop and Mass Health, GDPI growth of the company was at 19.7%, again higher than the industry growth of 14.8% in Q1 FY 2025. Our GDPI growth during the quarter was primarily driven by growth in the preferred segments. The overall GDPI of our property and casualty segment grew by 9.7% at INR 25.08 billion in Q1 FY 2025, as against INR 22.86 billion in Q1 FY 2024. On the retail side of the business, GDPI of the motor segment was at INR 23.69 billion in Q1 FY 2025, as against INR 18.75 billion in Q1 FY 2024, again registering a growth of 26.3%.
The advance premium numbers was at INR 34.56 billion at June 30, 2024, as against INR 33.3 billion as at March 31, 2024. GDPI of the health segment was at INR 23.37 billion in Q1 FY25, as against INR 18.19 billion in Q1 FY24, registering a growth of 28.5%. Our agents, which includes the point of sale distribution count, was at 131,021 as on June 30, 2024, up from 128,411 as on March 31, 2024. Our combined ratio was 102.3% for quarter 1 FY25, as against 103.8% for quarter one FY24.
Our investment assets rose to INR 510.04 billion as at June 30, 2024, up from INR 489.07 billion as at March 31, 2024. Our investment leverage was 4.14 times as at June 30, 2024, as against 4.09 times as at March 31, 2024. Investment income was at INR 11.28 billion in quarter one FY 2025, as against INR 8.44 billion in quarter one FY 2024. The investment income for Q1 FY 2024 has been revised basis the recent IRDA Master Circular dated May 13, 2024. Our capital gains, net of impairment on investment assets, increased to INR 2.84 billion in quarter one FY 2025, as compared to INR 1.23 billion in quarter one FY 2024.
Our profit before tax grew by 48.8% at INR 7.74 billion in Q1 FY25, as against INR 5.2 billion in quarter one of the last year. Consequently, profit after tax also grew about a similar number at 48.7% at INR 5.80 billion in Q1 FY25, as against INR 3.9 billion in Q1 FY24. Return on average equity for quarter one this year was 19.1%, as against 14.7% in Q1 last year. Solvency ratio was at 2.56 times at June 30, 2024, as against 2.62 times as at March 31, 2024, and this continues to be higher than the minimum regulatory requirement of 1.5 times.
As I conclude, we remain steadfast in our commitment to driving profitable growth, creating sustainable value, and safeguarding the interest of our policyholders at all times. I would like to thank you all for attending this earnings call, and we will now be happy to take any questions that you may have. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question is from the line of Shreya Shivani from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you for the opportunity, and congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, I basically have a question on the motor segment, and you guys have delivered quite well, particularly in the first two months of this quarter. Some color, if you can give about. I know you've said that more growth came from old vehicles than new vehicles. I'm not sure if I got that right, if you can help me with that. Second, the thing with the motor segment is that the motor TP book has seen quite a strong growth for OD is the fastest for you, but TP growth was also very strong, given that competition in this segment has been degrowing.
Also, the loss ratio or the reserving triangles for a lot of competition for FY 2024 saw a bit of worsening. So is there any dramatic shift in the industry dynamics or the competitive landscape or any color that you can give to us about the motor segment? And whether we can sustain this 20, 25+% growth rate in the motor segment, that would be useful. Thank you.
... Hi, hi, hi. Thanks, Shreya. Yes, clearly, not couple of months, I think the full quarter, the team has been able to do pretty well as far as motor as a segment is concerned. But look, we always maintained a very steady line that being a multi-line, multi-product company, in that sense, we will go where we believe there is value. At some point of time, if you will, if you go back in time in terms of our quarter one, quarter two call last year, you had seen that we had retracted significantly because it was not making commercial sense to pursue what was going on. We spoke about the industry number for financial year 2024. There is a bit of a semblance in terms of, again, the loss ratio, which is there.
We see an overall industry-wide some improvement, while still it stays concerning. We were able to leverage that part of it. With respect to the new and old new sales, first, as I said, the part of the number is given a very muted number, but overall supplies have increased, and that should hold good in the ensuing quarter when you have festive season coming in. For us, again, from deep mining, we were able to do a much better job on getting the old book to your right. Our new grew at X percentage or maybe around 16%, 17%, but the old book has grown at almost 33%. So that's what has given value for us as a company. Question on the last one, and I then leave to Gopal if he wants to add something.
Is this sustainable? I mean, this kind of a market share gap, I don't think it's sustainable will be a right thing, but we will continue to stay vigilant. If there is a value on the table for us, you will see us, operating with same intensity. It's not that when we were not, you know, gaining market share, we were not, doing what was required. We'll continue doing the right things, and hopefully the outcome will fall in place. But yes, on motor, overall as a segment, we continue to remain committed, as an entity. Gopal, would you like to add something?
Yeah, I think only I'll just kind of add on to say that, I think the good news is there seems to be semblance playing out in motor as a segment. I think, which is what we kind of put out also as a part of the opening remarks. To say that directionally, possibly, the combined ratio for the industry looks to be kind of, as I said, going down almost by about 3% or 4% when you look at it on a full year basis. This is obviously a trend that we will watch for, even for the subsequent quarters. And linked to this is your last question that you asked in terms of what has been the loss experience or let's say, the loss ratios for the industry, let's say, vis-a-vis, what has it kind of worked out for us?
Honestly, I'm sure each companies will have their own approaches to write risks in the way they would want to source, and the outcomes is more a reflection of the thought processes that they would have had taken in their respective companies. So very difficult to comment on the, the way-
Yeah.
The reserving triangle disclosures are moving for those players.
Yes.
But at least from so far as our standpoint is concerned, from an ICICI Lombard standpoint, I think we continue to stay prudent in our approach to reserving. And even if you recollect, what we have been talking through since the last few quarters is on motor as a category, we have set the loss ratio band at which we would be kind of largely comfortable at on an overall basis, has been between 65%-67%. And within that, on own damage, we have generally talked about the loss ratio staying in the range of 60%-65%, and third party in the range of, let's say, 65%-70%. So that's largely the kind of loss ratio band that we have been kind of largely working with.
At this point of time, given the point that Sanjeev made in terms of our ability to kind of go after micro segmentation and doing the right, right risk selection, we believe, I think we are kind of pretty much poised to stay around those loss ratio bands. But obviously, it's all a function of what kind of business mix that we write at the end of the day.
Sure, sure. And so just last one comment. Is there, are you guys seeing any benefit from the Motor Vehicles Act in sense of are you seeing faster claim intimation? Is there some change in the industry dynamics from that perspective?
You know, absolutely sure, early days, but we do see overall, on a, you know, on a sequential basis, claim intimation on an faster note than what it used to be. But can we be conclusive about it as yet? No, but the overall early signs are positive in the direction that also well for the industry, not only us.
Yeah. Yeah, that's useful. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Nuvama Wealth Management. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening. Thank you for taking my question, and, congratulations on a great set of numbers! A couple of things. First, you know, I know it's early days, but maybe you can talk a little bit about the health product. What's the kind of numbers that we are seeing? And, you know, what sort of, what, what are you sort of building in, in your mind as a target, for, you know, this, this year? And, second, you've done very well on the investment income side, so I'm not, I'm not sure whether you gave this number out or not, but what is the capital gain amount? And, if you can split the investment income in capital gains and normal gains.
And then in the opening remarks, you had mentioned about the numbers in for private car, two-wheeler, and CV. If you could just repeat the CV number, what is it for the industry and what is it for us? So those would be my questions.
Okay.
Thanks a lot.
So, I will probably, Madhukar, thanks for your question. I will speak on the health product, and then I'll ask Gopal to share with you details of investment income as well as the private car and two-wheeler that you have sought. Again, it's been a thought through process for us. We've been talking on health, more so on the retail health side in a very big way. As a team, we've launched this product, Elevate. Supremely excited in terms of the way it has got received by the market across channels and partners at this point of time. Number wise, probably we'll wait till it comes to the end of the quarter two. As you rightly said in your question itself, early days.
But what I can tell all of you on the call that the way it has got received in terms of multiple industry first that we have put across, we do see significant traction. As a team, all of us are very excited as to where it can take us in the health segment. Yes, this would be one of the critical steps to make our journey more complete. So as I said, you know, in couple of calls that we have done that, our efforts on health, many times have not reflected the output. Hopefully, we are seeing through this some convergence on that, as an entity is all I can say. Now, I'll hand it over to Gopal to take the other two questions up.
Yeah. So maybe I'll go in the reverse sequence. I'll take the third one, which is relatively easier. I think we put out... You're right, we put that out as a part of the opening remarks. Just to kind of reiterate the mix between overall motor on private car, two-wheeler and CV, that mix is at 51.5% is private car, 26% is two-wheelers, and the CV mix is 22.5%. To your other question on the-
No, sorry. Sorry, Gopal. Gopal, I wanted your, the number of new CV growth was, what for the industry and what, what is it for, your number?
Oh, what is the SIAM numbers?
The SIAM number. Yes, yes.
SIAM numbers for private car, two-wheeler and CV for this quarter, private car growth was 3%, two-wheeler is 20.4%, and CV is at 7.8%.
What is it for us, that 20, for the CV?
For us, CV is at about 20%.
Okay. Got it.
Now, coming back to your second question on terms of what is the split between the overall investment income, I think again, we kind of called that out as a part of the opening transcript. So the capital gain numbers for this quarter, this is quarter one of the current year, is at INR 2.84 billion. This number in quarter one of last year was INR 1.23 billion.
Got it. All right. Thanks, and all the best.
Thanks, Madhukar. Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Sanket Godha from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on the reasons what led to that significant improvement or decent improvement in the OpEx ratio. Because if I look outside commissions, your overall OpEx has declined by 7%-8% year-on-year. So where this saving has come, is it because we have focused on old versus new vehicle, has that played a role in significant improvement in the OpEx ratio? That was my first question. Just wanted to understand what led to it and how sustainable it is going ahead.
And the second question that I had is that, when you do long-term new long-term what you launch in private cars and two-wheeler, just wanted to understand from accounting point of view, it is recognized on cash basis or it is on year-end? For other than the new TP, what you write for three years and five years. And lastly, my question is on, you said that non-ICICI Bank has seen a growth issue, which is even reflected in personal accident cover growth, which has declined year-on-year for the quarter. So is it because the major bank channels like HDFC or Axis have slowed down our business? And how do you think it could play out going ahead?
Yeah, these are my questions.
Okay. So, thanks, Sanket. With respect to the OpEx part that you are referring to, definitely, configuration of the portfolio has played a role, there's no doubt about it. The growth of old has definitely helped us in overall averaging our cost. So you're absolutely right. And besides this, even the growth in GHI, which comes from a relatively lower OpEx, which we have grown as a business at almost 31.1%, has played a role. So because a little bit of very micro but small number of crop also has got booked on an incremental basis. But I wouldn't say that that has changed the OpEx. It's largely driven by the nature of business in which it has got done.
Whether it's sustainable, see, it's a very dynamic situation. We have a regulatory requirement that we need to manage our expense of management below 30%. We will stay committed, at the same time, to dynamically operate and ensure that the profit pools are taken care of. We would take calls that are appropriate in the interest of the, you know, company. So I wouldn't go and say that it's all sustainable, but, someday or the other, yes, we will seek efficiency, and that is the direction that we'll operate on. With respect to the banca, the long-term piece, I would request Gopal to speak. On the non-banca channel, which is non-ICICI Bank channel that you are referring to, we have a larger relationship which is driven by NBFCs.
The overall unsecured part, we have seen in the market that the disbursement has gone down because of the changes in the regulations for them.
... that has impacted our sourcing, else we remain very committed to this business and it has been a key value driver for us as an organization. As and when the overall disbursement improves, we will be there, you know, present with the relationship to drive our own market share with them. And on the long-term part, Gopal-
On the second, second question, Sanket, pretty much similar to the same prescription, as you rightly mentioned, whatever is true for the new private car or new two-wheeler prescription, the same prescription is what we are covering with respect to the long-term offering that we do for the rest of the businesses as well.
Got it. Got it. I just on the OpEx part, just wanted to see. I understand the ratio improvement is because of little more GHI and crop, but absolute decline in the cost is the point I was more focused on, that it declined by 7.5%-8%. So is it largely attributable to the fact that your retail health growth was lower and old component has increased in the motor? Just wanted to understand that one. I mean, that is the strategy going ahead, and then we can see structural improvement in the OpEx ratio.
Yeah. So Sanket, again, I think, this is something that keeps coming to us every quarter, right? In terms of, where is the directional movement on the overall expense number. I would again, kind of keep reiterating the fact that end of the day, as an institution, what I think everyone should be kind of largely watching out for is the combined ratio outcome. Because again, rightly mentioned by you, businesses obviously get impacted by different mix, different growth levels within a particular segment, and each of them have obviously its own nuances and dynamics with respect to the overall cost of acquisition. Having said that, I think if you look at generally quarter one, obviously tends to be slightly lower because the relative proportion of commercial line insurances tends to be higher.
So hence, to that extent, there is an element of a cost of acquisition that plays out. But having said that, I think what we have also been able to achieve is the relative efficiency and the productivity gain on even motor as a category, in terms of the top line coming back to us at the acceptable level of cost of acquisition. And again, the point that we made out, within that segment, the growth has also kind of largely stemmed from what Sanjeev mentioned. The old growth in motor has been 33%+. So obviously, as the older portfolio grows faster, the relative cost of acquisition equally is lower. So, and that's something that we kind of keep moderating.
If you ask us what will be the directional trend that this expense ratios will take, I think the only thing that we would kind of call out to say is, at all points of time, we stand committed to staying within that threshold of 30%. Very difficult to pull out and say that, what will we finally end the number with. The endeavor is obviously to kind of make sure that we operate within that overall objective. So hence, lots of moving parts, very, very difficult to call out a particular thing to say that what has led to the overall efficiency in the expense numbers.
Got it. Gopal, if you can-
Mr. Godha, may we request you return to the question queue for follow-up questions, as there are several other participants who want to join in.
Sure, sure.
Thank you so much. We'll take the next question from the line of Aditi Joshi from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question. So I have three questions. So, sir, can you please help us understand on the group health side, what are the competitive dynamics you are seeing? And also in terms of pricing trend that was observed and your outlook as in going forward in the coming quarters, how do you see the health insurance pricing, both in the retail segment as well as in the group segment, that is the employer-employee? The second question is related to the combined ratio guidance. We came up in the last call, suggesting that the improvement in the combined ratio might be faster than the previous expectations, but in the first quarter, it was around 102% level, versus 101.5% that we were expecting.
So, sir, can you please help us understand if that is what you continue to think? And, if so, then what would lead to that faster than expected improvement? And then just the third question is on the underwriting profit, segment-wise, there was a significant improvement in miscellaneous group and corporate. So, can you please suggest what this precisely is? Thank you.
So, Aditi, I think maybe I will go in the same sequence. I think let me start with the corporate health. Again, pretty much similar to what Sanjeev explained on the motor side. I think, as a thought process, I think when markets have been quite aggressive, we have obviously tried to take a guarded stance, but continue to stay invested in our distribution slash servicing capabilities. The same thought process is what we have, you know, even on the corporate health. I think market did see signs of stress for some time, at least in the last few years.
That seems to be kind of coming back, which is why even as a part of the opening remarks, we did call out to say that there seems to be kind of, pricing discipline coming back, particularly from players who have been very aggressive in writing this particular segment. So obviously, now the fact that, let's say, pricing discipline is happening on corporate health, that obviously is giving us an opportunity, which is why, as a segment, I think we have been able to kind of outgrow the market at an underwriting outcome, which is to our liking, which also kind of a response to the last question that you asked in the context of, let's say, the corporate slash miscellaneous group segments in terms of the absolute outcome on the underwriting side.
On the retail, I think obviously, one keeps looking for what is the quality of the book that we want to write. I think we kind of stay to the loss ratio thresholds that we have generally spoken about, which has been around 70% numbers on the retail health. I think that, that loss ratio band is something that we would obviously want to kind of stay, focused on. The fact that we have been able to kind of launch this new health insurance solution, will obviously kind of aid, in terms of the loss ratio outcomes that we are kind of expecting for the rest of the year as well. Obviously, we continue to monitor the portfolio in terms of its development.
We believe we are fairly priced for the risk features that we have kind of launched as a part of this solution. But as I said, at the end of the year, at the end of the day, we would obviously want to see that particular segment operating in that loss ratio range of about 70%. On the last one, on the second question in terms of the combined ratio trajectory, I think pretty much, I think what we have, what we are seeing is obviously a directional improvement in the way we have been able to kind of exhibit our combined ratio outcomes. But again, as we keep saying, this has to be looked at in the context of the industry movement on combined.
The good news is, again, what we called out, at least this is public disclosure on the full year numbers for FY 2024, has been relatively better than FY 2023 by almost 4 percentage points improvement in combined for the overall market. Now, obviously, if this kind of a trend line continues, and within that, motor has been almost again a 3%-4% improvement from an overall industry standpoint. If this trend line was to kind of further continue for the rest of the year, I think we believe that we should be able to kind of stick to our exact quarter four combined ratio, thought process that we have of about 101.5. I think we should be able to kind of get to that, trajectory by the end of the year. So that's in response to the second one.
The last one, I think again, I will, again, I will keep kind of saying that an absolute underwriting outcome in itself may not mean much, particularly when you look at it in a quarterly context, because as we know that whenever you end up doing relatively higher growth, this could be across any segment, the relative cost of acquisition comes and hits you up front. But all that we can say for sure is hence, you always keep urging to keep looking at the combined ratio numbers. The good news is, as I said, the fact that we have been able to write a risk portfolio which is to our underwriting outcome, and hence, to that extent, the combined ratio trajectory for the company as a whole has been in line with what we would want to see ourselves there.
Just a clarification, what categories come under the miscellaneous in this disclosure, please?
Anything which is not covered by the rest of the segments for which there is a separate disclosure that is put out, all of them come as a part of the miscellaneous segment.
Okay, that will include the Engineering part in it?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So all those separate segments that have been specifically pulled, put out in terms of regulatory prescriptions have been put out separately. Anything which is not there as a part of those separately laid out requirement, they will all form a part of miscellaneous. That is correct.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, please restrict your questions to two per participant. If you have any follow-up questions, you may rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, good evening, everyone. Congratulations on the numbers. So, on the health ratio, loss ratio front, you know, there has been an increase from 78.7%- 83.6%. What is this really reflective of in terms of mix or are there any adverse trends that we've seen in the quarter? And how should we think about this? That would be my first one. Second one is on the motor strategy, wherein, you know, you've spoken about the older vehicles growth has been stronger. Generally, you know, OEM growth, OEM channel would have, has been our strength, and that generally drives our growth in the new vehicle business.
So what differently we have done to grow the retail older vehicle channel, it's digital where we've become more competitive or it's through the agency channel, how has this kind of come across and whether that's sustainable? And lastly, on the motor TP price hike, you know, with this kind of loss ratios trending, do we really anticipate a price hike coming this year, or even for that matter, if it sustains, anytime soon, even you know, whether a motor TP price hike we should work with? Those are my three questions.
Okay. So, thanks, Prayesh, for your question. On the health side in particular, where we see relatively increased loss ratio, I think Gopal, in a way, also spoke about it as to where we expect it to be around. There are two segments here, which is retail health, and then the other part is the group health. But that being said, there is no denial of the fact that we have seen relative increase in frequency, which has impacted the loss ratio overall. And from what also we are aware of, it is at the industry level, and it is something which we witnessed across is what we are understanding.
Whether this trend will be secular and will be there, quarter two typically has an elevated loss ratio because of the monsoon that comes in. There are vector-borne diseases, you know, which can have an impact.
... over on this, but for us, since we have, you know, also launched the product which is expected to do well, I think the mix should also play out over coming quarters, to help us in rebalancing our book, and we remain committed to the overall health of the segment and more so, on the retail health, which we want to, you know, continue to invest and grow. So that's first part as far as health is concerned. On motor business strategy, where it stands, new and old, so it's not that the new part, which we have shared the numbers also, has not done well for us. We have done well on the new side, but it is the growth of old which has also significantly - which has exceeded new.
Both sections have done well, but definitely old has grown at double the rate of what new has grown as far as the company, and that has helped us rebalancing it. Agency also has done well, and other channels also, from wherever we are able to source motor, like broking channel also, has done well. In terms of overall strategy, we will be, we are deeply entrenched in every single section, whether it is private car, two-wheeler and commercial vehicles, we will continue to explore opportunities. There are a lot of work that has been done by our actuary as well as underwriting in terms of further micro segmenting the market to create white spaces and see if we can do further business in that.
On motor premium hike, the last part that you, you have spoken about, look, I mean, this is something which comes under the regulatory regime environment. We continue to pursue, because at the industry level, there's still need in some segments to see increase, and maybe there are some segments where there can be a decrease also on third party to overall rebalance the book. And it is not only for growth, it is also for us as an entity, if that, pricing factor comes in, since it is regulated, it will help us to further expand our market. That's what it is placed on our side. Yeah?
But, just, just clarification on motor part. So, have we, you know, like in the last six to nine months, got more competitive in terms of pricing? Or what has been the change in the approach of ours which has, you know, one, obviously, the industry trends have been favorable, but even from our side, what are, what changes, we have done with respect to pricing, which has... Does, does that play a role?
Yes, obviously, there is an element of pricing, but we have continued to be in a similar journey, to be very honest. So others have, who were far more aggressive, recalibrated it, and that gain also has accrued to us. It is not that we have, you know, gone, you know, dramatically on the price cut side. We have stayed moderate in the zone, which is what we have always been talking to each one of you. It's just that the others who were being far more aggressive in the market have, you know, gone ahead and, you know, taken some more of control in terms of numbers. So, that's where it stands.
We've been consistent and also, moderating whichever we want to acquire, you know, in the market that we want to acquire, we have done what is required to stay valid in those. Other piece which is there is the PPN network that we have started leveraging very extensively, and today we would be on the agency and direct side, we've got almost 70% of our claims which are being, you know, processed at the PPN network, which is the Preferred Partner Network that we have. That drives significant efficiency also for us overall, and helps us in the motor profitability.
Got that. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nidhesh from Investec. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity, sir. My question is on health insurance product. What is the underwriting process or philosophy in that product, given that pricing is quite attractive? So how are we controlling underwriting at the customer origination level, and what are the rejection rates for that product?
Sure. So pricing obviously is a function of our own modeling that we have done, and clearly, I would say that we are aware of what we are doing. Further details in terms of what is the rejection and all, I mean, honestly, we would not like to share that. But yes, the business has seen very recent pulls, besides we, you know, launching this product. It does give us the leeway of underwriting what we believe will make sense, and the ones which will not, we wouldn't. So it's at a simple level. And if you see the construct of the product, which is very important, if you all have not seen it, you must go through.
It's a very modular product, where the features are available as add-on, so it's up to the customer whether they want to pick it up or not. So there is a risk pricing element, that has got created, which otherwise was not the case. So which was one-shoe-fit-all kind of a product, which will say that this is what's available. But in this, we've gone through a cases model, which say that, this is the core, which will be there, and then there are features. If they, if they suit your requirement, you must, opt for it. So it avoids misselling, and at the same time, it allows us to price the risk appropriately.
Sure, sure, sure. That's it from my side.
Thank you.
Thanks, Nidhesh. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Neeraj Toshniwal from UBS Securities. Please go ahead.
Thanks, congrats on the results. So three questions. First, in the of the duration of the book and the team we should work with. Second is on the retentions are being given Q1, and retentions are lower, so commissions are could have been a little lower. Is it the motor mix which has come up and driving the higher the higher commissions as in last Q1? And third is more towards today's incident of the the global IT outage. Wanted to understand any cyber insurance from the cyber insurance perspective, have we, have you seen any impact or how could we go about it? Though the portfolio is very small, but just wanted some thoughts here.
Maybe I'll take the last one first. So I think obviously too early to call out whether there, because it's like a cyclone happening, and can we kind of estimate what will be the impact of losses that have hit our book? So obviously it will take a while for us, if at all, there is any impact so far as claims is concerned. But again, just kind of going back to the underwriting discipline, I think what we have tried to do from an underwriting standpoint is obviously to kind of write and select books, which we think will be within our underwriting appetite.
And hence, at the end of the day, whatever underwriting we do, we are in the business of paying claims, and therefore, to that extent, if there is genuinely a claim, then obviously to that extent we will honor those commitments. But too early to call out, but obviously maybe in the subsequent quarter, we will be able to give you a much better update in terms of where we are consequent to this outage, that one would have possibly seen. To your first point, I think in terms of what is the duration of the book, the duration of the book currently is at about 5.48 years. This is something, if you recollect, I think we have been obviously kind of taking advantage of the higher interest rate regime over the last couple of years.
And that, again, kind of augurs very well in terms of the portfolio, interest accruals, and that's kind of pretty much playing, and we are kind of well positioned to capitalize the opportunity depending on how the interest rate cycles move in the market. So that's what we keep doing. It's not just in this period. I think even over years when we have seen periods of high interest rate regime, during those times, we have obviously tried to kind of go long. And as possibly the cycle of interest rates starts to reverse, we have been able to see the benefit of maybe higher realization getting kind of accrued to us in terms of capital gains and obviously till that time, higher interest accruals. So that's the response to the duration of the portfolio.
On the second question on, if I, if I got you right on the, commission ratios, again, I, as I kind of explained earlier, I think, at the end of the day, what we will be largely guided by, I think this is something that you will keep hearing from us. We will be largely guided by the Combined Ratio objectives, which will obviously a function of what is it that, that one sees on the Loss Ratio and what is it that one sees on the expense of management. To call out one over the other, honestly, for us may not be the right thing because that's the inherent nature of the business that we are in. We will-- We are in a multi-product, multi-distribution.
We source different type of businesses and therefore, each business mix will have an outcome which will be very different. Hence, again, just to reiterate, we stand committed to the trajectory of the decline, declining combined ratio that we have spoken about. At the end of the year, assuming the market continues to kind of show improved trajectory, we stand committed to see a combined ratio, which is quarter four exit of about 101.5.
Okay, Gopal. That is really good. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you, Trish. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Avinash Singh from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions. The first one, if you can help again on motor, that you explained that share of old had gone up. I mean, is it, you know, how it has panned out in various distribution channel, I mean, agent, or is it again, gaining shares from, you know, other players at the OEM dealer point, or is it, you know, something to do with the new, you know, corporate broker or online broker tie-up you have done? That's one. Second is, I mean, if I look at the motor third party, you know, loss ratio of 69-odd% for the quarter, it looks, I mean... So is it just based on this quarter or like there's some support coming?
Because, I mean, if I see, for as an industry, you are the only one who has in motor TP, for FY 2022 or 2023, you have not taken any kind of a reserve so far. So is the 69% has now getting some support from the regulation or is it, this quarter only? And if you can give some kind of a pro forma idea that how if, I mean, in the, Ind AS, when the reserve is discounting is allowed, how this 69% would typically look? Thanks.
So I, maybe I'll take the second, second one, and maybe, I'll kind of respond to the couple of questions on TP loss ratios and maybe the the related impact on the Ind AS front. Let me start with the reverse order. I think again, Ind AS for us is work in progress. And as I have been saying even in the earlier calls, I think we will come back to the market at an appropriate time to talk about what exactly will be the the relative impact when we transition to, the Ind AS from a discounting of reserve standpoint.
But one element which I will again keep reiterating is irrespective of whether it is Indian GAAP or whether it is, transition to Ind AS, the underlying economic profit of the business that we are writing is not undergoing a change. So it's more a reflection of what profits you see under the current accounting prescription vis-a-vis, let's say, a changed accounting prescription. That could be the only dynamic, but the core underwriting objective or, let's say, the economic outcome, will be something that we will be kind of largely working towards, in terms of its outcome. Specific numbers, I think we'll wait for a couple of quarters to come back.
On the third party loss ratio, Avinash, I think again, which is why one called out at the beginning to say what is the range that one is comfortable with in terms of the third party loss ratio outcome? But having said that, I think you're absolutely right. Does it make sense to look at the number more on a quarterly basis, is something that we again keep kind of talking about. I think ideally you understand or all of you understand this far better. Yeah, particularly on third party, this is a segment which you have to look at numbers over long years. So hence, the range is something that we have talked about, and that's what we will possibly end up doing in terms of the mix of the business that we write within private car, two-wheeler, and commercial vehicles.
That's what we kind of keep revisiting. Forget about the numbers that we put out on a quarterly basis to all of you. Internally, for us, it's on every day basis in terms of the way how we kind of reselect portfolios between private car, two-wheeler, and commercial vehicles. So hence, I think the range, just to kind of reiterate on third party, what we would be comfortable is within a range of 65-70. And obviously, the experiences on third party book has to be looked at over longer cycles. And Sanjeev, please. Also on the motor, in terms of the own part, as I mentioned also in the previous question that were asked, our growth has been across channels.
Clearly there is no way, the old can grow at a double the rate of new if we don't have better rotations coming from our dealer, from our dealer network, so that also has played out. And that being said, even the agency as well as the website and broking business has contributed, but it is not something which is that one of those a few which is delivered. It's been overall a very, very comprehensive, well-thought plan. Again, it's a question of where we believe we are able to derive value for sourcing. If we see that over coming quarters not playing out, we may choose to stay where we are. These are all very dynamic calls that we have to take as an entity on a real-time basis.
Fortunately, as far as private car in particular, which is almost 51% of our motor book, the ability to read the own damage numbers is pretty, you know, current, and we don't have to wait to see play out. These calls will take on a virtually month-to-month basis.
Okay. Thank you, thank you. Thanks, Avinash. Thanks, Avinash.
Thank you. We take our next question from the line of Supratim Datta from Ambit. Please go ahead.
Hello, thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the recent IRDA change with respect to commissions for long-term motor policies. Now, the commission limit has been done away with, so just wanted your observation about how do you see this playing out in the industry, and what impact could this have? That would be the first one. The second one is, when I look at the quarterly numbers, there appears to be a provision release of around INR 355 million. Now, there was a similar lower kind of provision release last year in the first quarter as well. Just wanted to understand, why does this keep happening in the first quarter, and is there something that we need to be cognizant of going forward? That would be my second question.
Lastly, on the health insurance bit, if you could, you know, help us understand what is the profile of customer that you are targeting with this new product, and what was the retail versus group loss ratio breakdown for this quarter? Thank you.
Yeah. So maybe, I'll go in the same sequence. On the IRDAI recent guidelines on accounting for long term, I think for, at this point of time, we would not want to kind of, put out specifically in terms of what the impact could be. Primarily because, at this stage, as you all know, the regulator has rightly kind of put forth the, implementation of this to be deferred for a couple of quarters. And in the interim, obviously, industry and the regulator will work to see how, what finally and in which shape and form does this guideline eventually translate into.
So honestly, maybe at that point of time, once we have a finality to the way how this will get played out, is when we will call out in terms of what impact could it have on the overall book. To your second point, Supratim, if I got you correct, this INR 355 million provision, are you referring it in the context of any specific line item?
Yeah, it's the provision for diminution investments.
Understood. Okay. All right. So which is what I was just wanting to try to understand. So obviously, that's again, a function of, what does one see? We do have our own, impairment, policies, which is more internal, that we have kind of put in place, and that obviously gets, assessed on a time-to-time basis. What effectively happens is, in case if we find that a particular value of a stock has reached a price which we believe is right, then to that extent, obviously we take calls in terms of making an exit. And whenever we take calls to exit, maybe that particular stock, at that point of time, this is more an accounting, reflection.
As in, at that point of time, one would see a reversal of the provision for impairment happening in the quarter in which the call to exit the stock would have been taken. And correspondingly, there would be an element of capital gain, as one would have possibly seen, given the fact that we have seen the value of the stock reaching a price at which we are comfortable to take that call. So hence, so there is no unusual or specific instance that one has seen specifically happening in quarter one. That is more coincidental than because as I said, it's more a call that the investments as a treasury function does; this is individual stock that one picks.
To your point on the last one, which is with respect to the health insurance segment, in terms of what profile of customers that we want to underwrite, obviously it's across plans. Again, if you look at the entry age of this particular health insurance solutions that we have, that's again, something that we have been able to kind of expand. I think it starts from 18, and it kind of goes on to whichever age limit that one would want to kind of get in as a part of the portfolio underwriting. So therefore, the endeavor for it is not that we would want to kind of pick and choose any particular category of customers.
Our endeavor is, I think, again, what Sanjeev mentioned. I think the good part of this solution is what we want to create as an offering is something that will be more unique and personal to an individual, and then to that extent, whatever is the right health insurance solution for that customer or that individual, is what we would want to kind of recommend as a part of the solution. And that's the kind of profile of customers that one would want to write, and that could cut across various age groups, that could cut across various geographies, that could cut across various limits of sum insured expectations, because each customer will have its own expectations. So that's what I would kind of leave it with.
Finally, just on the loss ratios front, I think again, as we have spoken, quarterly numbers again may not be largely reflective of what the portfolio experience of the overall book will be. Again, just to reiterate, the corporate health or the group health book is something that you would see on a full year basis at a loss ratio range, anywhere between 94%-95%. That's the range that we have spoken about even in the past. Retail health indemnity, again, we have spoken about a loss ratio of about 70%. Sanjeev?
Yeah, just one last one. On, obviously, the target, which we want to have is healthy lives. It's very difficult, and I can share with you quickly. If you only write younger population, the persistency drops because they have a tendency to move away if there's some other expenses to incur. So it's a healthy mix of young as well as relatively older population, is the mix that we have it. The idea is to overall source, as much as possible, healthy lives. That is the criteria that it works on. Each one of it comes with its own set of challenges.
Got it. No, that, that's very fair, Sanjeev. Just one clarification. So you have called out that the relative increase in claim frequency within the health insurance portfolio, now, was that at a retail level or a group health level, if you could clarify?
So, see, I'll tell you, it's, it's important to understand whether we write group or we write retail. The unit, when it comes and reports sick, is an individual customer himself, the mode of writing is of no consequence. So the elevated frequency would come, at a category level, not at a, you know, whether it is individual or group. I hope. Am I, are you able to understand? It's always in the category that we are seeing more people falling sick. Which manner they'll come, whether they'll come from group or retail, is part of the process of how the product, of health insurance has been picked up by them.
Perfect. Understood, very clear. Thank you.
Yeah. Thanks, Supratim. Thanks, Supratim.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, we would take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Sanjeev Mantri for closing comments.
Great. I think, thank you so much for joining in, and wish you all a great quarter two, and look forward to connecting with you individually, as and when you are visiting our offices. All the best.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of ICICI Lombard General Insurance-